So I don’t know how many saw this, but the Fed decided to raise the rate a little bit.

And after the announcement, the stock market rallied.

I wanna thank Peen for always educating me on the stock market, but now I’m just confused.

I thought something like that would make the market go down, even if just a little? I mean I’m not complaining because if you aren’t investing then you’re playing yourself. But the more I believe I’m starting to get some sort of grasp on the market, something happens that reminds me that I don’t know a damn thing.

Somebody, please explain this to me like I’m 12.

Unemployment is also very low, and corporations raised prices simply because they can. I’m lost.

Fed has been putting it out there for a while that rates are going UP this year. Maybe the increase was less than expected?

I'm no expert, but with the economy rolling along just great (believe it or not - despite inflation on most things) the fed saw a need to slow things down a bit. It can be changed again, no doubt. But with supply issues, etc

Thank you Federal Chinese Reserve!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep. This is a classic case of the news already being "baked in" and immediate market reactions having little to do with the actual influence of the decision.

Raising rates can be used to combat inflation. Could be viewed as a step try and control inflation.

Thank you, once again, for a very thoughtful contribution to the thread. Based on the immense amount of data you presented, I can do nothing but agree with you.

On a serious note, this kind of strikes me as curious too, but I am no economist. What oober and FATE are talking about makes sense. Same with arch. Could it also be possible that there is hope that these moves will help counter inflation?

Ha, you beat me to it.

Rate increases usually do flatten the market. In this case, with inflation running wild, I think it is looked as a step of sanity. Also, with rates so low, small bumps aren't really going to shift much money out of the market to seek bonds.

As rates rise , which they most probably should and will, you will see more normal market reactions as more funds start to shift larger blocks of money in to bonds, CD's, etc.

Man, it's been a loooooong time since those have been worthwhile.

Remember the days of 5% Checking Accounts and 15% CDs??

Also… having a plan and knowing the fed is raising rates helps
Stabilize the market

Stock market hates uncertainty…. Does much better with certainty or status quo

It's absolutely this.

Raising interest rates does not combat inflation, it adds to inflation.

After Jimmy Carters presidency, 1978ish, inflation was high, ... yes, just saving money could get like (lets say 5%) back then, and back then, even though I was negative (x) years old-ish, folks would say things like, "Wow you got a home mortgage at 16%, that's AMAZING how low it was, because most home mortgage rates were in the 20s to 30s, that might adjust down after someone spent over a decade and a half 'IN" that home.

And so, AFTER that time, (that time 1978-1982) Ronald Regan! Combated inflation by doing 2 things, (maybe more) He pushed through a Tax decrease for the highest income rates, which at that time were neighborhood 50-60-60% real tax rates in higer tax brackets,

But I'm DANG sure, because I was alive, when in some year? The thing that "REALLY' combatted inflation, that was skyrocketing in the early to mid 80's ( I mean if you acquired/earned enough to save back then you could double your money in like 4 years because of the high rates) BUT,
They MASSIVELY, MASSIVELY MASSIVELY LOWERED interest rates that had (at that time) been forever in the (9% + to higher) like forever, and they Suddenly, suddenly dropped everything to like 1 freaking%, or less, approaching 0%, and that was about
1987------------- until TODAY, and that DROP! is what really combatted inflation.

So, 1, the evidence shows, dropping interest rates combats inflation, and the media lies about it.

Explain it like Swish is 12,,,, continuing,,,,

Swish there are 2 economies in the US, there is the Elite, leader class, that has a ton of money and uses that money to (boat race) the common folks out of their lifes' efforts, and
The Stock Market, in spite of how many commoners may pretend to take part, (the stock market) is largely an indicator of how that class is doing.

What does inflation do, and why, would the Elite class want to bring back inflation? Inflation makes poor people poorer, and average people poor. BUT! it raises prices, and in the end who benefits?
Sellers?
Sellers of things like food, and whomever collects the payment at the end sale of basic goods, like, who gets the pay when you pay at the pump gasoline, or when you buy shoes, or food.
There is a bottom line, and as long as the companies---------- can pass the cost---------- which they always do, to the common folk consumers, ------- then inflation benefits everybody, except,
anyone who needs things, like food, or shoes, or gasoline.

Thus, raising interest rates, and therefore, adding to inflation, can cause the stock market to go up, because the elite class thinks it is going to get a boost, by (boat racing) the common consumers, a little bit moreso.

Now, Evidence? like 12, ok,
Pretend all the money in the whole world is 100 dollars.
and that 100 dollars is 100 because it represents all the value of everything on earth including one building, to represent all the real estate on earth, and one super hero to represent all the work anyone can do on earth, and like one cornstalk to represent all the things that grow that kind of thing.

What you can't have, because it has no value, and doesn't contribute anything to that 100 dollars, is a phantom comic book character that represents what banks do, see, they create fake dollars out of lending and then getting paid back more in interest.

So when rates go UP! the amount of that 100, which over time grew to 150, or 200 dollars, or 500 or a billion, Based on how much the banks lent out, and then took back with interest, while they sat in cushy office seats and added nothing,

then that amount grew, and caused "inflation" because
the one building and one corn stalk, and one super hero worker didn't change, (over time, mostly) I mean unless the population grew like crazy by letting millions in your southern border, or if a billion babies were born or something, (genetic wheat, oil fracking tapped, things that add to it sort of stuff).

But Basically, the less the banks do, and the lower the interest rates they do it at, the better for keeping inflation low over time.

But! Again.
As long as Multi national Elite Money Biggest Boxx Store in the world knows it's going to sell Bread for (a days wages)
instead of $2.19,
then Big Boxxxx Store gets googley eyed at the thought of the dollars they will pull in, because they still believe
the common poor man will just have to pay, and pay more

I mean they aren't going to not buy standard needs, what choice do they have.

“Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said…”

That can be a problem. The problem is you need to wait for the supply to be depleted. The daily fix is for crude right out of the ground. As price goes up, usage drops, so there is still a lot of crude in the pipeline that has to be used up before the new starts to be used.

There may be some fudging on the price...I don't call it gouging like that simpleton does...but it isn't gross IMO. Now if the price of crude continues to drop and the retail price doesn't follow, then we might have something to talk about. All the drops are recent news and this simpleton who doesn't have a cluse is all up in arms. Lets see what happens over the next few weeks. In the end, the laws of supply and demand can be a bit slower with commodity's because there are usually vast supplies in the bin. Retailers, and even the wholesalers are going to be slow to adjust their price until they have used up what they have already purchased.

You see this all the time. You have two gas stations on a corner who usually have similar prices. Then one day you see one of them selling for 5 cents cheaper. That means the guy selling at the higher price still has a few thousand gallons of gas in the ground while the other just took on a new load at a cheaper price. The station selling higher is trying to gouge people. They are trying to keep from losing their ass on that tank full in the ground.

That makes sense. Basically, if you the retailer, buy an amount from your supplier for $100, to make it simple, you need to place your margin on that amount and deplete that supply before your customers see the discount from you buying that same amount from your supplier for $50?

Yes, that's what makes commodities different than normal consumable products. There is a history within commodities, especially oil and gas, that when crude prices start to rise, prices at the pump rise rapidly, then when the price of crude starts falling, prices at the pump fall slowly.

Let's say it costs a retailer $1.50/gallon to buy the gas that's in the tank in the ground, so they sell it to you for $2.00/gallon. As long as the price of crude remains stable, that will continue. If the price of crude begins to rise rapidly, the retailer will begin raising prices, even though they are still selling you the $1.50 gas in the ground because when that's gone, they are going to have to pay to replace it at, let's say, $2.25/gallon. Then if prices start to fall, they need to do what Peen said, which is get rid of the expensive stuff before they can lower prices. I'm not saying that gouging doesn't happen, but in most cases it's retailers covering their costs and protecting themselves from risk as prices rise and fall.

If the retailer has a 20,000 gallon tank in the ground that he paid $1.50/gallon to fill, that's $30,000. Then he sells it for $2.00/gallon, that's $40,000 with $10,000 of that being profit. (Grossly oversimplified example) If the supply truck shows up the next day to fill it and it costs him $45,000 because crude went up 50% and he didn't adjust prices along the way... that's a situation retailers don't want to be in.

Good explanation, but to add some data to that, the average GROSS margin for gas sales is around 10%, after overhead (CC fees, taxes, rent, equipment maintenance etc) there is around 0.02 to 0.04 cents per gallon profit (Less if the station across the street is a national franchise that gets better prices from the distributor, and forces price matching)

The gas is a way to get people in, hoping they come into the store and buy items with real markups.

I worked at a Shell station in the early 90's, I'm sure it hasn't changed much since then.

It would make sense if crude oil hadn't gone down 5% last week alone and has continued to decline this week.

Pay attention. It was explained in several different ways.

The part people struggle with is oil companies raise prices at the first hint of any kind of disruption or slowing of the oil flow. Yet, prices only come down after the historic profits are made and 100% certainty of not taking a loss has occurred. Therein lies the gouging.

I understand how it works. Any sign sign that anything may go wrong and the oil futures market jumps in price. Even if it hasn't happened yet or the odds of it happening are low. Then when oil process go down, it doesn't take a week and a half to use all the "crude in the pipeline that has to be used up". So they up oil and fuel prices in case something might happen while that oil should still actually cheaper, then drag out dropping fuel prices well after those oil prices have dropped. At both ends they charge consumers far more by gouging the price.

I just said that.

Well since you've labeled me a centrist just like Joe Manchin how could we possibly agree on anything?

I understand, but that was explained. People don't understand that the people selling gas, Wal-Mart included aren't big oil.

As DC explained, the small guy who owns the Exxon station on the corner goes up because they really count on the gas in the ground paying for the next load. They don't want to have to come up with another $10,000 to pay for the next batch. You go out of business doing that.

Historic profits are the same as a profit margin. I agree the profit dollars go up as the price of crude goes up, but that isn't gouging. The margin remains static.

Where I get gas, it's gone from $4.19 last week to $3.99 tonight. That's 4.7%.

What you call gouging, business calls risk management. Every business on the planet would LOVE to be able to have a business model where they could achieve a 100% certainty of not taking a loss.

Look, I'm no big fan of the oil industry, they are slimy as hell... we will just see in a couple months when earnings are announced whether they achieved record profits over this period of rising prices.

Well they should have great profits now that they aren't spending money to explore for oil.

All they do now is pump what they have and sell.

One question I have is about their margins when oil prices start to rise. For instance, the gas prices go up quickly on the news of barrel prices increasing, but are slow to fall like we discussed. If they are shedding current supply that they purchased cheaper, at a higher price, wouldn’t that equate to potential windfall profit, albeit limited to the time that the current cheaper supply lasts?

I wonder if the stock market's rising was at all due to the spending to help Ukraine and the rest of the 1.5 trillion dollar funding bill. What are the military industrial complex stocks doing? (NOC, RTX, GD) Unfortunately, war can be profitable for some businesses.

Things are probably going to get really bad in a few months. Our economy lags about 6-8 months before prices hit the store shelves.

Most businesses keep having to raise their COGS because of transportation/shipping costs, labor shortages & more overtime for employed, & higher wages to hire someone.
Last year, a load going from CLE to ATL cost 2500
This year, the costs are $3900


a business does not eat the above costs, they pass it to the consumer they have a margin they need to operate on. Wholesale prices jump nearly 10% in 2022 over 2021. Wholesale prices jump nearly 10% in 2021 over 2020. It's going to get messy before it gets better.

2020 costs
Cost of Goods 1.00
Margin 30%
Product Cost $1.30


2021 costs
Cost of Goods 1.10 Wholesale prices jump nearly 10% in 2021
Margin 30%
Product Cost $1.43


2022 costs
Cost of goods 1.21 - Wholesale prices jump nearly 10% in January 2022
Margin 30%
New Product cost $1.57

Projected 2023 costs
Cost of goods 1.33 - Wholesale prices projected to jump nearly 10%
Margin 30%
New Product cost $1.73

Also, many are going to have to start repayment of their EIDL/Covid Loans starting in 2-6 months. We have jumped out of the plane and we will see how bad it gets before the parachute is pulled/we hit the ground.

Out driving around yesterday, I didn't really pay attention to price, but I did notice that the gas signs that did start at $4 several days ago are now $3 something. I am sure there are still some in the $4 range for the reasons mentioned earlier.
If my usual stations are still higher, I will still fill up there unless the prices stay that way. I am not going to go to the station on the other side of the street in the short term to save maybe .25 cents on a tank of gas. I might if I was burning 2-3 tanks a week and it was a long term deal. That 2-3 cents per gallon doesn't mean much to anybodys budget if you are like most who might burn a tank plus a little. That .75 to $1 per gallon does add up.

You realize that in your example - the product cost (to the consumer) went up by the same 10% each year. The margin is baked into the initial cost. So the margin a company makes has no impact (visible) on the price increase the consumer pays provided the margin doesn't change and price only goes up by COG increase ....

What is a bigger problem is companies making record margin off fewer sales. That is a big driver of the inflation as we saw it early in this inflationary cycle. I mentioned before - I don't know a company that isn't making more profit off smaller sales than ever before. That has a big impact on inflation because the only way to achieve that is to raise prices even though COG have either stayed the same, gone down in some cases ... or where COG went up say 5% - the price to the consumer went up 15%.

I am aware the product cost (not to business) went up 10% because... it did (slightly rounded) from 2020 to 21 and 21 to 22 are at 9.7% right now and they are already projecting around 10% increase next year.


Clearly, you don't own a business.

1. Businesses all set their margin on top of their cost of goods and that is how they adjust their markup. A business is not going to make less profit margin because they have a higher cost of goods. They still need to operate.
2. Businesses are marking more "money" but at the same margin because of the higher cost of goods. Look at my example again.

Jc

Just following along guys. Y’all clearly know more than me so I’m really just learning a lot paying attention to this thread!

I think the market changes have been driven by the news out of Ukraine and China recently and the timing of the Fed announcement, which went exactly as expected, were just coincidental to line up in time. And the market rally wasn't very big.

If you look at the metals, they dived on the announcement, indicating to me that people expecting less inflation due than prior to the interest rate announcement.

I would say the markets are wrong on this one. Inflation isn't just being caused by monetary policy right now, so a rate hike is not going to correct the problem entirely.

Inflation is always caused by monetary policy. Inflation is a function of money and money supply.

You are missing the point or wrong.

Using your numbers:

2020 costs
Cost of Goods 1.00
Margin 30%
Product Cost $1.30


2021 costs
Cost of Goods 1.10 Wholesale prices jump nearly 10% in 2021
Margin 30%
Product Cost $1.43


2022 costs
Cost of goods 1.21 - Wholesale prices jump nearly 10% in January 2022
Margin 30%
New Product cost $1.57

Projected 2023 costs
Cost of goods 1.33 - Wholesale prices projected to jump nearly 10%
Margin 30%
New Product cost $1.73


Product cost: $1.30 to $1.43 ... 10% increase.
Product cost: $1.43 to $1.57 ... 10% increase.
Product cost: $1.57 to $1.73 ... 10% increase.

The margin is baked into the product cost. If the margin stays the same, whatever % increase happens to COG is reflected/same as Sale price of product.

It is always a factor, but I would argue it is not the root cause in all cases.
If money losing purchasing power was the dominant factor, then we should expect to see price changes consistent across all goods and services. Additionally, they would be able to measure inflation rate by just looking at the monetary policy, they wouldn't need to go out and price a basket of goods to come up with CPI.

I think Covid and the War in Ukraine just proved beyond any measure of a doubt that other factors are in play.

Yhat is correct and exactly what I said that the margin is baked into the product cost. Margins almost always stay the same. Whatever % increase happens to COG is done through their markup and is reflected in the new product price.


what I think you might be missing is that the dollars become larger. People are assuming higher profits because companies are selling fewer products at a higher margin. The reality is their sales are likely to be the same or fewer and can still and have more money

if a company sells 10,000 widgets for 130.00 in 2020 they will have 1,300,000 in sales and their margin is now 30% of 1,000,000 is 390,000 "profit"

if a company sells 10,000 widgets for 143.00 in 2021 they will have 1,430,000 in sales and their margin is now 30% of 1,000,000 is 429,000 "profit"

if a company sells 10,000 widgets for 157.00 in 2022 they will have 1,570,000 in sales and their margin is now 30% of 1,000,000 is 471,000 "profit"

if a company sells 10,000 widgets for 173.00 in 2022 they will have 1,730,000 in sales and their margin is now 30% of 1,000,000 is 519,000 "profit"

This is how companies make more money and "record profits" in the short term.

right now, consumers are taking the brunt of inflation. If it drags on too long, people will be forced to change their spending habits.

I don't know that we are disagreeing. But if companies are making higher profit off less sales it means their margin is increased. So your example with a consistent margin of 30% doesn't fly. You can't make record profit off reduced sales if the margin is consistent... In your examples above - the company not only recorded record profit - but record sales too.

What I have seen virtually everywhere - companies are making record profit and record profit margin off fewer sales. It is akin to price gouging because the market has no choice. Same thing happened in the boom years of construction back in the day. You get to a point where you can only bid so much work and you throw out ever escalating quotes because you don't actually want/need the work. I can't tell you you how many contractors I know who have won a bid they thought they had put a stupid high price on during good / busy times.

The deal is that demand doesn't drop a whole lot. People still have to go to work, take kids to school, etc., so profit dollars go up even when margin over cost of good remains static. Thus, a company isn't gouging even though profit dollars increase.

Gross profit is factored on a percentage set over the cost of goods. The percentage stays the same, but as the cost of goods goes up AND down, the gross profit dollars increase and decrease.

The net profit starts to seem high or low because the cost of doing business such a labor costs etc remain somewhat constant. Labor and other costs are controllable to a large degree, but non controllable expenses such as insurance, interest payments etc aren't.

So while some look at high profit dollars and start screaming how big bad Exxon is ripping off customers, they don't know what they are talking about.....or more probably they do but simply lie to rile up the public.

If we start talking about regulating the profit of a company, we are talking communism.

Where did that come from?

You can because as cost increases, even if margin stays the same, the GP in dollars increases as well.

10.00 cost at 10% margin is 11.11 sell (1.11 GP)

12.00 cost at 10% margin is 13.33 sell (1.33 GP)

But if you sell the same quantity of items at $13.33 as you sell at $11.11 then your revenue has INCREASED AS WELL.

I am saying - clearly not very well - that companies are selling less, have less turnover - and they are making record profits. Their margin is increasing - significantly.

If your sales turnover or revenue is $1 million in 2020. And Less than $1 million in 2021 - and you made more net profit ... your margin increased. If companies are making higher net profits in 2021 than ever before on smaller turnover - then their margins have gone up.

Yes if you're talking straight sales(revenue) dollars then yes.

I thought we were talking about oil/gasoline, where volume of sales (units) doesn't see much of a change even when prices and cost increase.

But at the same time, in basic cost rising market you can sell more than the previous year, make more profit all at the same margin, while selling less units.


2020
cost $45.00 Sell $50.00 (10% margin)
Sell 20,000 widgets for 1,000,000 in sales
Cost on all those widgets was 900,000
Company Profit 100,000

2021
cost rose to 60.00 sell 61.11 (10% margin)
Sell only 17,000 widgets
that's 1,038,870 in sales
Cost for the widgets was 935,000
Company profit 103,870

Made more sales and profit, sold 15% less widgets

We do this to maintain volume. We will quote higher prices, which will persuade price conscious customers to shop elsewhere while our customer base that appreciates what we bring to the table stay. This allows us to focus more on our service to those customers and not stretch ourselves thin, where our service and quality is affected by our volume.

Let Them Eat Lentils” Is The New “Let Them Eat Cake”

Eat lentils and let your pets die of cancer! Bloomberg is slammed for out-of-touch op-ed lecturing Americans earning less than $300,000 on how to beat inflation!

-A March 13 op-ed by Teresa Ghilarducci was criticized online for its suggestions on how to deal with inflation
-Ghilarducci suggested switching to vegetables to avoid inflated meat prices
-She also posed taking public transportation because prices are only up 8% compared to 38% for gasoline
-The piece also declares that the cost-of-living crisis most affects those who earn less than $300K
-And for new pet owners, Ghilarducci advises 'to rethink those costly pet medical needs' by cutting back on cancer treatments for much loved furry-friends.

They could care less about the flyover Americans between the East Coast and West.

Elitist Dems...Pfft

Regulating profit equating to communism is a blanket statement, though. You know the other phrase: “Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered.”

When you have companies out there like Transdigm, Turing, and whatnot pulling off exorbitant profit basically through extortion, you have that fever pitch, which leads to civil unrest, which I think is probably the biggest catalyst to more of the government intervention that concerns you.

I tend to agree with you when it’s a more competitive market place and people are still willing to pay the prices, assuming there is no collusion among the competitors.

My solution by the way is not for a straight up regulation of profit, but to maximize competition, which I think is a traditionally conservative value I espouse that is another tenant Republicans have veered away from, as seen through a multitude of legislative hearings, including Transdigm.

People beaching about record profits.

You are factoring wrong. You are looking at net profit dollars. Margin isn't based on that. It is based on cost of goods.

No... But never mind.

The margin a company reports to the Street is net margin. Net profit as a ratio of total costs.

If a company is making more profit off less revenue their margin went up. Fact.

my friend, I just don't think you understand what everyone is trying to tell you and I have been trying to tell you.

I even broke it down as simply as I could in the examples where sales, margin were all the same and showed you how the company made more "profit"



**This is also what people don't understand about taxes and corporate taxes. I can make my company be at net.01% profit by spending millions in a year on new assets, new buildings, product upgrades, machines, updates etc. Meanwhile from a gross perspective operating at 30% gross profit. It is literally impossible to correlate or why they have a net margin where they do base on cogs.

PS. 99.5% of companies are not publically traded.

Yes you did. And I pointed out that in your example - they made more profit AND they made more total sales.

What I am telling you - in 2021 - companies were selling less but making more profit. How did they do that?

I pointed out the same sales each year.

Florida tried to explain that to you too where there were 15% less sales and more profit

No - in the example provided sales went up by $38,870.
Profit went up by $3,870 - the same proportion (10%) costs rose by.
====
2020
cost $45.00 Sell $50.00 (10% margin)
Sell 20,000 widgets for 1,000,000 in sales
Cost on all those widgets was 900,000
Company Profit 100,000

2021
cost rose to 60.00 sell 61.11 (10% margin)
Sell only 17,000 widgets
that's 1,038,870 in sales
Cost for the widgets was 935,000
Company profit 103,870
====


So no - no-one has shown how you can sell less - make more - without increasing margin. I'll happily wait till someone can though since everyone keeps implying that it is possible.

seriously? in the above example it's not implying. it's literally showing you and so were my examples.

sell = individual items sold
sales = revenue
margin = 10% in both cases

I said earlier - I don'tr know what you are trying to say or prove. Nothing you wrote in your example was wrong - but it also did not prove anything.

WHAT I HAVE SAID FROM THE START IS YOU CAN'T REDUCE THE NUMBER OF SALES DOLLARS AND INCREASE YOUR PROFIT DOLLARS UNLESS YOUR MARGIN INCREASES ...

Your example - FL example does not show otherwise. I just highlighted this. In FL example sales revenue INCREASED... it did not decrease.

I think at this point you are so set that you are right that you are not paying attention or reading what I have written.

what you originally said that sparked all of the explanations and examples:



"companies are making record profit and record profit margin off fewer sales"

"I am saying - clearly not very well - that companies are selling less, have less turnover - and they are making record profits. Their margin is increasing - significantly."
"



now, you are trying to say... "sales dollars not items sold.

so, honestly, sincerely, it seems like you really don't know what you are talking about so you are confusing yourself. We are literally trying to explain to you how it works.



**Also, you can't use what goes on with Wallstreet as an example when discussing gross and net profits and margins. Besides, people look at EBITA anyway. Public companies are different than 99.5% of businesses in the USA.

We wouldn't be in this mess if the government stopped spending trillions of dollars and printing money out of thin air.

They put more fiat fake money in circulation through stimulus checks and big programs and then act surprised when there's inflation!! Lmao!! They must not be very smart.

Raising interest rates work because it makes people less apt to borrow money, buy a mortgage, purchase real estate deals, buy a car, do business because you're paying more. It shrinks the supply of money in circulation over the long run by making it more expensive to borrow (which is what a loan/lien actually is).

Thanks - I know how it works. You clearly don't read or do not know how it works.

There is not a company on earth that reports their financials based on "Units sold" ... so when we are having a conversation about companies and sales, unit sold is not part of the discussion. But there you go. I even started to refer to REVENUE.... but hey, you do you. All good. Of course you could just tell me that on my original point I was right.

Thanks.

To add to that - the company I work for is a billion dollar publicly traded company... just like most companies, there are so many products, divisions, variations, innovations, obsoletions that it would be absolutely impossible to talk about "units sold". Even something simple like a company that sells "pencils" will have hundreds if not thousands of different offerings and bespoke products that talking about 'units sold' would be pointless. The only industry I know that reports on units sold is smart phones - and that is regards to share of the market (users) not in regards profit/sales or revenue.

I appreciate that you work for a billion-dollar publicly-traded company.


You have also made it painfully clear you do not work in accounting or the C-suite.

I can see where you confusion would be and thinking I was talking about units. Clearly.

And your response was to claim this was still wrong and that most companies aren't publicly traded.

You also said margin is based on cost of goods. Maybe there are different ways to look at margin - but in your example of marking COG up by 30% ... that isn't margin, that was just that, a 30% mark up. I was taught that margin is the ratio of profit to sale price .... if you bought something for $100 and marked it up by 30% and sold it for $130.00 then the MARGIN is $30 (profit) divided by the sale price ($130).... so in this example 23% net margin. For a company - their operating MARGIN is total profit as a ratio of total sales/income.

OK...another try because you are confusing profit margain margin on sales with bottom line profit.

Say your item cost $1.00. Your company needs a 50% profit before paying out expenses after the cost of goods.

Your selling point is $2.00, not $1.50.



50% profit of $2.00 is $1.00

That is how even with fewer items sold, within reason, a company protects the bottom line and can indeed show record profits even with off sales numbers. The reality is most companies need to work on 60-70% profit margin.

Mark-up and profit margin are different. Business people who don't end up going broke and wonder why.

I hope that helps because I don't know any other way to explain it.

Time for my morning walk, be back later.

mgh888 is talking strictly dollars, so he is right that is you sell less total dollars than the previous year you would have to increase margin to increase profit beyond the previous year.

But I don't understand why increasing margin is a problem, if sales go down (say because of covid), you still have hard costs you have to cover (storage, labor, shipping, packaging, production), then to ensure you meet your own financial obligations, you increase margin to help offset the deficiency.

yeah, mgh888 changed his questioning about 1/2 way through. Mostly, because mgh really didn't/doesn't know the proper verbiage or normal slang that people use when discussing it with others.

Plus, what I think mgh is really struggling with is that you read on stock sheets and how you look at a company's profitability is completely different from how a company looks at setting a margin/gross margin and markup and " the why prices go up or down".

maybe this will help mgh...

Outsiders look at it as they divide things to find the answers and profitability of a company and interpret the company's stats. (armchair quarterbacks)
companies are trying to multiply things to get their final price and profit. (quarterback)

Large companies work on a profit margin over cost of goods sold. Especially companies that deal in commodities where prices fluctuate daily or weekly. You notice it more on gasoline because the cost is already high. You deal with the same thing with a loaf of bread, you just don't notice it as much because you are usually working out of storage capacity. Oil companies don't pump everything over a 4-5 month period, then shut down for the year. They don't deal with growing seasons like food producers. The government also regulates food prices to a degree. That's why you sometimes read about farmers getting paid to not grow or limit a crop of some sort. We try to support the price so farmers can make money and not go broke, but we don't want them doing that on their own, so we don't have shortages.

Thanks for the acknowledgement of my point - without any put down.

Regards your second point here - we were talking about inflation in one of these threads - and causation. While I agree that businesses have fixed costs they have to recover, which might demand an increase in profit margin to make sure they are covered during slow times. What I alluded to and spelled out in this thread was businesses not merely covering overheads on fewer sales - they are making record profit off smaller turnover/sales volume. That's both manufacturer's / Suppliers as well as contractors. I'll admit my sample size is small - but it's basically anyone I talk to about this topic who I know well enough to have a candid conversation. There's been articles written about this as well - and the impact is significant and adds to the inflation we have seen.

Could that be the supply and demand variable? I work for a company in the construction supply business, and us and well as our customers have seen such a demand, that we raised prices (margins) beyond the cost increases, just to slow it down for ourselves.

It's a debate we are having around here daily with some new management who just see the $$, and just want to keep taking on all business, even though we already at struggling to keep up and making more mistakes than we ever have. Many of us who have been here 20 and 30 years are arguing to slow it down, focus on our life long customer base, the ones that stuck through with us , and us with them, during leaner times.

They are not increasing their profit margin to cover their cost of goods.

They increase their markup.

profit margins are the result of sales - the cost of goods / sales

Companies usually increase their "markup" usually only when their cogs go up, they are at max capacity, or they don't want to do the work and charge someone ... "it will cost extra fee" because they have to stretch their capabilities against their labor or because they don't want to do it.

Taco bell...i could buy 3 tacos, 1 bean burrito and a medium pop for $4.99 about 2-3 years ago....that same order cost me $9.87 yesterday......mcdonalds quarter extra value meal cost me $2.99 in high school 25 years ago. Government inflation rates say prices have went up 50-60% over that time frame so thst meal should cost about $5.00 based on .gov math.....but last week it cost $8.59....personally, i can handle those cost as well as the gas costs, but i know many cant (or wont cause they cant prioritize). But .gov lying about everything just to paint a pretty picture and help their own books aint helping.

It's all across the board. It's very troubling.

A fact not being reported in the mainstream other than the financial publications is the inversion being seen in the bond markets.

In a nutshell and way simpled down, when short term rates flip and start paying more than long term rates, it's a strong sign that recession is right around the corner.

As turned around as we are, it could get pretty deep. The floor on which we stand isn't very stable.

Is that the case now with bonds, where the short term is higher than the long term? Honest question, because I’m looking at my Mom’s investments (81 y/o).

The 2 and 10 came out today. Other bonds have been showing the same thing, but the 2 and 10 was the biggie.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...recession/ar-AAVJeCW?ocid=BingNewsSearch

I just brought this up as a FYI. Not as advice.

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/inflation-rockets-to-41-year-high-4756545/

Inflation rockets to 41-year high

Share
By Theunis Bates, Editor at LinkedIn News
Updated 7 minutes ago


Inflation accelerated to 8.5% in March from a year earlier — the highest rate since 1981 — with sharp rises in the cost of fuel and food hitting consumers' wallets, according to new Labor Department data. A large chunk of the consumer price surge is a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which sent fuel prices spiking last month, with U.S. gas prices briefly hitting a high of $4.33. But supply chain snarls, booming consumer demand and rising wages and housing costs are also pushing up inflation.

Inflation rose 1.2% in March from a month earlier, the highest monthly gain since 2005. Gas prices accounted for half of the rise.
Economists expect the sharp rise in prices will lead the Federal Reserve to step up its inflation fighting efforts and hike interest rates by half a point next month.



Shelter is the single biggest component of CPI (33% of Index) and is still being wildly understated (@ +5% YoY) with rents up 17% over the last year and home prices up 19%. The actual inflation rate is much higher than 8.5%. - Charlie Bilello

Price increases over last year (CPI report)
Gasoline: +48.0%
Used Cars: +35.3%
Gas Utilities: +21.6%
Meats/Fish/Eggs: +13.7%
New Cars: +12.5%
Electricity: +11.1%
Food at home: +10%
Overall CPI: +8.5%
Transportation: +7.7%
Food away from home: +6.9%
Apparel: +6.8%

SHAME!

What the hell did you expect after the sheet show Trump put on? Four years of massive deficit spending and tax cuts for the rich did nothing to cause this, huh? Shutting down the country for the pandemic had nothing to do with it. The pandemic itself had nothing to do with it. Putin's war has nothing to do with it. GOPers are still clutching their pearls over crap started by them… FAKE PEOPLE.

stop blaming trump.

Biden is actually to blame on this one - they told him not to send out more stimmy Biden Bucks because they said it would cause massive inflation. He did it anyway.


He also has had 1.5 years to fix this. it's not like they didn't warn him it was coming.

So while both of them handed out stimulus checks, both gave out federal unemployment, both spent like drunken sailors, the combined policies of both didn't contribute to the situation?

Now that's a novel idea. You see, I'm not trying to portray that either one is the good guy and the other is the bad guy in terms of the economy we are seeing today. They both bear responsibility. But trying to say that they both did the same thing in terms of reckless spending but only one is responsible as to the results of it is fools gold.

Republicans get in power and try to destroy democracy and it's all good, Dems come back in for yet another clean up in aisle dumbass, and we are to blame… typical GOPerism.

Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg has had 1.5 years to simply fix the supply chain problem and NADA.

You can't rush these people as they are slow.

I agree with you. the only difference is the timing of when they gave them out. Trump literally had no choice - everything closed.


It feels like Biden did it to give out more free cash and it felt like to push through a few agendas and buy ratings. Heck, he even tried to kick out a 3rd round of Biden Bucks.

Thankfully, it was shot down by both parties after they started to see the errors of their ways.


We are in for one heck of a bumpy ride.

It's clearly the other way. Dems get in office and do a lot of social spending. Conservatives get voted in to make cuts and clean up the mess - Rinse/Repeat.

Clearly.

When did Republicans cut spending?

DL05, never. That's one of those alt-facts.

they cut taxes and let the free market work out prices with the competition and deregulation.

As budgets grow, spending will always increase.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/21/opinion/us-economy-inflation-europe.html

A really good read if anyone actually wants to read and learn something. It's a useful article because it examines and looks at areas of inflation that differ between EU and the USA. Those ignorant Trumpians thumping their chest that the record inflation is all Biden while ignoring the 6% inflation in Europe are simply delusional and ignoring factual data.... those that want to look at why the USA has inflation that is higher than EU would be interested in the article.

1. So that’s the rub, right? Increase the budget and the spending and decrease the revenue. Still an increase in spending. Not exactly a great thing, IMO.

2. I’ve seen zero evidence of competition increasing and deregulation, or at least beneficial deregulation. I say that because I am actually a huge proponent of competition, and also an advocate of deregulation - with reasonable guard rails. With the Republicans reverse anti-trust stance, I’ve seen competition wane with the overwhelming amount of M&As and buyouts occurring. That’s why we only have essentially one large scale domestic commercial aircraft manufacturer, and also likely why they do such a crappy job with both their commercial and military products.

Most of the deregulation I have seen is for the mega businesses to stay mega to you increase their “mega.” That’s not just on the Republicans, but a shared culpability of both party elites, from what I can see. If you look at some of the National Defense Authorization Acts, for instance, it’s easy to see from things like changes to the Small Business Innovative Research program that the big money lobbyists have created a double edged sword to provide leverage in our laws for bigger businesses to keep their share of the pie and either buy out or push out emerging competition from the small business ranks. Like trying to plant grass seed in an area full of weeds. To me - and I don’t see either party doing this - the deregulation should be tailored to increase the competition to make it easier for small businesses to grow, and either create their own market niches or provide adequate competition to Megacorp. On the flip side, when Megacorp makes blatantly stupid financial decisions (thinking 2008 here), they shouldn’t be able to publicize their losses either, like Swish says. I think everyone needs to have skin in the game to know they have to work hard to be competitive.

You may wish to go back and look at the job numbers and the situation businesses, especially small businesses were in before claiming things were better when the second stimulus package came out.


I think the parts I put in bold help explain a lot.


Here we agree. I'm just not going to allow my feelings to dictate the facts of how we got here. I'm fully aware both presidents spent like drunken sailors and not just when it comes to stimulus packages.

A conservative would try to do that. Sadly you haven't been electing conservatives as president for quite some time now. What you have been electing is someone who spends just like democrats only on different things. Both parties now cater to their base in spending and there's nothing conservative about it.

Wow... so first it's Putin's problem... then it's greg abott... now we're back to blaming trump for inflation...

come on... it can't be the trillion of dollars our friggin government has printed in the last year... what is it? 40% of the US currency in circulation was printed in the last year....

I understand that we have ridiculous inflation... of course we do! We printed a [censored] load of money... I wish our politicians would just be honest about it and say... yep... we've got massive inflation because we did our best to bolster the economy during covid...

But I don't think it had crap to do with what they gave regular people. It has to do with all the corp bailouts, stuffing the Stock Market with a few trillion over the last several years, and not holding corps accountable for price gouging. 99% of the money that went to desperate people was immediately put back into the economy, that's why it was booming. And GOPers always wail about dem spending, but they spend MORE than dems when they are in power. Cutting taxes on the rich and corps always ends up becoming a burden on the middle class. ALWAYS. And what do the big corps do after numerous bailouts, all the money pumped into the stock market to prop it up, tax cut after tax cut, and every other advantage a company could have? They price gouge. They whine that working people who could barely make it and demanded raises aren't showing up for crappy jobs. Not only that, but they don't give a damn about working people, just the bottom line AND investors.

Anybody trying to put this on ONE party or ONE politician is NUTS. This is corporate greed in a capitalist system verging on Oligarchy, plain and simple. And GOPer reps are probably up to their eyeballs helping to make sure this inflation happens with their corporate buddies, just to point the finger at Biden and dems. I 100% can see Trumpian GOPers doing ANYTHING to try to regain power.

And yet, that's exactly what you do: Blame 1 party. 2 faced is becoming of you.

It doesn't matter. The results speak for themself and the results at the polls will do the same. Voters understand failure.
Right now, the Dems own it.

Most voters are uneducated on the issues and candidates they are voting for, and they basically vote like the Christmas treeing of a multiple choice test

If there was no party designations on the ballots, 95% wouldn't know who to vote for.

If true, and I don't totally disagree except for maybe the percentage you mention, that brings up the question of should those people even be allowed to vote?

I mean seriously, if a person has no clue about who they are voting for, or are simply voting a party line, is that being a concerned citizen? Is that helping the country?

I say not.

You are a fairly balanced guy and know I am not trying to keep segments of the country from being able to vote, but some will take it that way, so maybe a little help when that happens?

Would that also apply to the people who believe every American who doesn't think like themselves is a communist?

Couldn't wait to pounce on that one, huh? lol, smh

As Linda Ronstadt would sing, "It's So Easy".

The middle class spending the money that was printed off absolutely contributed to inflation. It created additional demand on an already strained supply chain. High demand, low supply leads to higher prices. It's the supply and demand concept that liberals can't seem to grasp. As long as the government wants to keep printing off money, we're going to see inflation keep going up.



Yet you did that exact thing in your next sentence.

I get what you are saying. And I bet that percentage is close. When you go vote, even if just in Presidential cycles, you pull the lever for local and state reps that you have probably never heard of. The average American can tell you who is president, but often struggle with naming the VP, Speaker of the house, or majority/minority leaders in the Senate. Some know their Governor's name, but not the LT. Gov., SOS, AG, or other state level reps. And almost NOBODY knows judges beyond the local level. SO I think 95% is right in the ball park.

Now obviously, I wouldn't want somebody blocked from voting for not knowing the names of all their reps. But if you can't form coherent sentences, then you are probably clueless on issues. And if all you do is listen to ridiculous political propaganda, day in and out, you are probably more harmful to our system than somebody who doesn't vote at all. I mean some of these Q people say crap that no adult should believe. How do you stop that and still be fair to voters? I think everyone should have the right to vote, but there should damn sure be some sort of checks and balances. I fully expect a very large number of people to support Trump in 24, and this guy planned and executed an insurrection, is in bed with Putin, tells lie after provable lie. I can't think of a more un-American candidate ever, yet he will have millions supporting and voting for him. And this is a large part of why we are so divided. People don't act like we are one country anymore. Some dumbasses think we are the Red United States and Blue United States, not just one United States. We find it hard to agree on even the most common facts, have no issue hating each other over politics (to the point of murder). Many don't seem to care how history will view us, have give up/quit on all our institutions and norms, have zero loyalty to the greater idea of America.

And these younger generations weren't here for America's wonder years from the 50s to the 90s. We now look like an empire in decay. People are losing faith in capitalism, the government, and their fellow Americans. I don't blame them, because I pretty much feel the same. Most of the youngest voters have never seen America truly 'united'. The last time I saw it was the days and weeks post 911. They don't know what it felt like watching the moon landing, civil rights marches, women's lib movement, or many of the things that made us great to begin with. Half of the country is dumb as a stump when it comes to history, even recent history. If you don't know who you are, what brought you here, where you come from, or what can happen if you make the wrong choices; well, you are going to do things the way you think they should be done. Inevitably, this uneducated approach to life (“I got this”, “hold my beer”, “Don't trust the experts or their so-called facts/then google research it”) is a recipe for disaster of epic proportions. Yet, other than the 50s-80s, when were Americans ever well educated? When did the voting populace ever have a great grip on the facts, issues, or really know their reps at all levels?

As a kid in the 60s-80s, I remember young people having a hunger to learn. Without the internet, we had the library, our elders/peers, magazines like Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, National Geographic. etc. Community college was cheap, we tinkered more because our faces were not constantly watching a screen. We just had more life experience and a more well rounded basic education in general as we entered adulthood. I think this mostly because we got out and experienced more. I'm not talking about higher education, just K-12 and the underlying desire to self educate. We also navigated more in the way of pitfalls and dangers. So much has changed to protect people from even the slightest of offenses that the younger generation wants to delete you if you don't meet their expectations of what is acceptable. WTH? We can't even accept different generational experiences.

So I don't think there is a way to fix what's going on. I don't think there is a way to regulate voting to keep the uneducated from hurting us as a country. And I certainly don't see anything or anyone 'making America great again', anytime soon. I feel sorry for our grandchildren and great grandchildren, they will have to fix all the crap we've allowed to be broken, or start over from scratch.

Naa...just clueless.

Geez Peen, that voting along party lines thing is EXACTLY what Trump and his minions demand... Along with total loyalty to a man that lies constantly.

You may not being trying to keep segments of the country from being able to vote... I mean not you personally... But your party sure as hell is. Those of you in the Republican party that don't feel Gerrymandering is right need to stand up and say so.

So it isn't right to Gerrymander districts that have been gerrymandered against them?

My point is that has been going on for a long time. I know it was going on in England long before we were a country. They had what were called rotten boroughs. It carried over to here. Manipulating voting districts has happened every election and census cycle since elections began.
You are a smart guy. Don't make it sound like this is a phenomenon that just started during the Trump years.

Is it right or wrong? There are good reasons why it happens and bad reasons why it happens.

And no, I don't think anybody is trying to keep people from voting. People have a multitude of opportunities to vote.

You are old enough to remember when voting day was voting day. That was it. That was the day. Now it is the month, or at least the several weeks a person can vote. The only real push I see it to require a vaild ID, I agree with that.

I agree. People who think that way are clueless. I guess permitting the clueless to vote must be okay then?

I nearly posted this the other day....

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/redistricting-2022-maps/?cid=rrpromo

Nationally it looks like redistricting might net the Dems a handful of seats (4 by the estimate of this article.).

Bottom line is it needs and should stop. Whether it benefits once side or the other - whether it was started in Britain 1000 years ago or not - it is not beneficial or productive today. Set the districts and live with them.

Big dip in the markets today. Fed raising rates triggered a selloff? Or is this something else?

jc

i have a rule, and maybe i'm part of the fringe, i dunno. but how trash would it be for me to be out here crying about gas prices with a twin turbo V8?

i want to be clear here: i feel for every american out here hurting. the inflation is out of control, and these corporations raised prices just because they could. but for the love of god, *specifically* dudes with the lifted diesel/gas trucks really need to shut up. i can't stand them anymore. nobody told you to life the truck 3-6 inches, mod the exhaust and get those tacky ass spacers on the wheels. you did that. gas for your ride was already expensive, and you decided to live that lifestyle anyway.

just needed to vent.

It's not JUST gas prices.

Food prices have and are rising. We're being told to prepare for those to go even higher. Even shortages.

Farmers seed prices and fertilizer prices going up.

Rent going up.

Price of new and used vehicles sky rocketing, and insurance going up as well, auto or home.

Cost of lumber? have you checked it out?

Literally, cost of EVERYTHING rising. And markets/stocks etc, shrinking.

Labor? Up. Still can't fill jobs. (I wonder what those not working do for income)

Lawn care, if, unlike me, you don't do it yourself. (most often the best part of my day)

Repair bills? Cost of appliances, IF they're even available? Unreal. We've had a refrigerator ordered since Christmas - granted, it's a special model they just aren't making.



Those people, and I know so, so many, that have 2 vehicle payments, a new pool payment, the place at the lake payment, the r.v. payment that they just bought, the whole "keep up with the Jones's people - many are going to default.

The next year, 2? will be interesting. To say the least.

and this is the thing. there's nothing wrong with wanting nice things, but too many people overextend themselves for luxury items, and that's stupid. all those monthly payments add up.

again, i feel bad for the overall market and population, but we have a very significant % of people in this country whining about their overextended lifestyle being effected. the pandemic era has really exposed some people's budgeting skills, or lack thereof.

then if you are a single dude and no kids....bruh what are they whining about? they could have two jobs on rotation right now and be balling. we can have the argument about wage suppression while ALSO working those jobs. there's a lot of young single men doing absolutely nothing, and its the entire country regardless of demographic.

and we're not even talking about hard manual labor jobs. everything is open. but we have lower birth rates, higher suicides, can't keep the talent level filled for these medium/high skilled position, or dudes don't want to get sober for a whole 2 months to pass a drug test and be done with it.

i can't even say all americans because the women are out here doing their thing. these dudes man.....

There's no reason to work since Biden became President.

As soon as he declared war on oil, fracking and pipelines, I took profits in my stocks and rolled it all into Oil, Gas, and Pipeline companies.

Still riding that pony to the bank.

Go Joe go!

For a poster that constantly stated the Obama economy was trash - when in fact it was as good or better than the Trump economy ... I have a large slice of skepticism over your claims of beating the market at any level at any time. In fact that goes for 99% of investors.

Making money during the Obama years was not bad.

It was super easy during the Trump era. Tax cuts grew business.

With Biden it takes more thought. The guy has screwed up everything he ever touched for 40 years.

The secret to investing with him has been to sell stocks and bonds while only investing in things,
when dropped on your foot, hurt.

As to whether or not you believe me, pfft.

If you would kindly get your facts straight please.. Biden declared war on a pipeline that was only 7 or 8% complete.. as of today, it still would not be complete therefore no oil would be flowing in it.

It was also cutting through land that was basically stolen from the owners. They were forced to sell....

Big Oil needs to be checked.. You're getting dividends from big oil because they are gouging the hell out of us. I'd have to check, but I think profits have never been higher.

Again, all conservatives care about is their own wallet. there is more to being an American Patriot than being rich.

Facts are your friend.... .Try them sometime.

Facts in this case show up in my investment profits.

I am now beginning to nibble at some of these great companies that have dropped so drastically.

I nibble, because I do not want to attempt to catch a falling knife, but when the bottom comes
I should be well positioned for the next ride up.

Historically, a PE ratio (price to earnings) of 15 was great and we are beginning to see PE's under 20 again.

Some of those companies hardest hit had PE's in the hundreds.

Well that's my approach, take it or leave it.

Gee, what little nibbling I did already got crushed!

This is like watching what my Great Grandfather went through as a Wall Street Broker in 1929.

And of course you wouldn't know since you didn't watch him go through it in 1929.

I am so far from rich....................but this inflation is real stuff. Like it or not, which no one likes it.

But, some seem to not care because it's happening under a D president. Oh well, we can't afford stuff, but at least no mean tweets, right?

And some refuse to admit that it's a culmination of unrestricted spending by both parties over many years that has gotten us to where we are now. Everyone cares. It's just some realize how we got here while others want to point the finger in only one direction.

Check yourself here. I have NEVER excused ANY side for the blatant, obtuse, and counter productive spending of ANY party.

I hate wasteful spending, yes.

This "war on poverty"? All it's done is create more in poverty, literally. More dependence on the gov't. More votes for those doing the spending. It's a mess.

Matthew 25:40-45
King James Version

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Some

an unspecified amount or number of.

an unspecified number or amount of people or things.

at least a small amount or number of people or things.

I said "some". I didn't say "you.

Verily, I say to thee, the war on poverty has created more poverty. Period. The end.

Give to caeser what is his. But don't blindly hand over more and more and more and more.

Gov't. has so much wasteful spending it's ridiculous. If you disagree, there is no help for you.

New programs to "aid and assist", and a year later they need more money, and more money and more money. Then, if you dig deep, you'll see the jobs created - by and FOR the gov't........

I have no problem helping those that want to help themselves. I have a problem withe leeches. A 'verily' big problem with it.

One thing about it, nobody can accuse you of being capable of writing scripture. Or even listening to scripture unless you happen to agree with it.

Bet I know more scripture than you. By a 'verily" large amount. I also don't speak in past tongues, languages, and I would bet I do more to help people............eh, you're not worth it.

I doubt you do know more scripture than I do. That's yet another opinion you have formed in your own mind based on no information but your own thoughts.

The thing is a lot of religions and religious people do help the poor. I won't go into my own donations or personal time spent doing so because that's not what I'm here for and I don't generally speak about such things. I would never donate time or money in order to take credit for it or boast about it publicly. Once again you have used your own imagination to reach a conclusion with no basis in fact.

I think it's wonderful that religion and people contribute to help those less fortunate. It certainly helps. But it isn't nearly enough in and of itself sadly.

Social Security recipients could see biggest cost-of-living increase in 40 years

Social Security benefits could jump by 8.6%, highest since 1981


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/s...-biggest-cost-of-living-raise-since-1981

It's all relative. That said, it all helps

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

Maybe it's time to sell your tank.

Amazon CEO and Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos caused quite a stir on Twitter Friday when he publicly mocked President Joe Biden for his latest solution for inflation.

Biden: "You want to bring down inflation? Let’s make sure the wealthiest corporations pay their fair share."

Bezos cracked Biden’s tweet, beginning with a dig against the administration’s new propaganda department, "The newly created Disinformation Board should review this tweet, or maybe they need to form a new Non Sequitur Board instead.

"Raising corp taxes is fine to discuss. Taming inflation is critical to discuss. Mushing them together is just misdirection," he added, completely trouncing the president’s idea.

So extremely wealthy people who pay no taxes attacked the idea of them paying their fair share of taxes? Imagine that. I'm shocked!

National gas price average hits new record high at $4.45 per gallon
Diesel also hit its own highest recorded cost at $5.56

Musk and Bezos might just have a point.

If they are paying no taxes, it's because of the tax laws.

Who writes the tax laws?

Then ask "who donates the most to politicians?"

Add 1 + 1, and we have the solution to tax disparity.

My point is that doesn't make it right. At the present time there's only one side calling out making the wealthiest people pay their fair share of taxes. We can look back and point fingers as to how it got this way or we can move forward and support trying to fix it. At the present time there are politicians trying to fix it. I focus more on trying to fix it than to look back and assign blame as a reason not to fix it.

If you think the dem politicians are trying to fix it, as opposed to use it as a re-election motto, I can't help you.

Term limits would help. IMO.

The people that write the laws are the ones benefitting from the wealthy donors, and the laws they write, and that's d's and r's alike.

No. That is not what Bezos said. Read it again or better yet have someone read it to you...




Amazon CEO and Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos caused quite a stir on Twitter Friday when he publicly mocked President Joe Biden for his latest solution for inflation.

Biden: "You want to bring down inflation? Let’s make sure the wealthiest corporations pay their fair share."

Bezos cracked Biden’s tweet, beginning with a dig against the administration’s new propaganda department, "The newly created Disinformation Board should review this tweet, or maybe they need to form a new Non Sequitur Board instead.

"Raising corp taxes is fine to discuss. Taming inflation is critical to discuss. Mushing them together is just misdirection," he added, completely trouncing the president’s idea.

So he said it's okay to "discuss it"? You are the one who can't understand what he actually said.

Why don't you think through the process of changing that and let me know how you think that will help today's inflation.

I guess that's a better plan than his usual though, which is to simply explain that prices are high.

It's really not complicated. More income equals less deficit. Some people seem to think that numbers change when we speak about people vs the government vs the wealthy.

I'll give you an example. Business and especially corporations look out for their own best interests and answer to their stock holders. I'm not saying that as a negative. It's simply how it works. Cut the fat, be efficient and maximize profits. No different than you or I would do in looking at our family budget. So the falsehood is a huge tax cut it will create jobs. The fact is unless their sales increase they have no need to hire more people. Claiming you will get a return on that tax cut by creating more jobs is a lie.

When billionaires do not pay taxes, once again it's income lost. Most people understand that when you're spending tons of money you do not have, that over time causes inflation. Let me ask you, if you took a job that cuts your income by 30% and in turn couldn't pay your bills, wouldn't interest rates rise based on your credit score on things you buy in the future?

There are a lot of variables causing current inflation. One of those variables is that billions and even I believe trillions have been given away to those who can afford to pay it. Whether it be tax cuts, tax loopholes or tax abatements. In every case that's income that would get the deficit down which in turn would help hedge against inflation.

Now if you're asking me would that solve the problem, no I don't think it would. But it would be one ingredient in the recipe.

I think in large part we agree that it's more a talking point than an actual solution. Much like saying that informing children why Johnny has to dad's is grooming children to be homosexuals.

Can we get a list of billionaires that did not pay taxes?

It just seemed like a non-answer from our feckless fearless leader.

That will do nothing to alleviate our problem in the short term.

But then again, this is the same guy who's answer to exploding fuel costs was to blame it on Putin and "buy an electric car".

i love how we got posters implying that if taxes are raised in the same tax code, they wouldn't be screaming about socialist commies.

Arch and FATE: for the last 30-40 years, yall have voted, supported, and defended policies and politicians who have destroyed this economy with trickle down economics. cut taxes for the wealthy, deregulate as much as possible. this has directly led to companies outsourcing jobs, gate keeping resources and hyper inflation under the guise of pro-growth policies.

but the moment anything is done to somewhat reverse that damage, you will be the same two calling those policies socialist and communism.

i really dont know how to have a conversation with people who happily vote for their own demise. the "free" market/stock market made 25%+ returns back to back years during a freaking pandemic. these same corporations decided to raise prices simply because workers wanted to get paid more. there was no reason why prices shot up other than greed.

and yet yall show more energy sniping at people who are ticked off about it than you do the people actually responsible for the problem. but i get it, yall voting record says you're part of the problem.

FATE: miss me with blaming biden when we all know you're gonna vote for the same party who will fight tooth and nail to give the wealthy more cuts and deregulation. cause the moment biden does anything to counter it, you'll be calling him a far left commie like Arch and every one else.

edit:

and honestly, that goes for any conservative. i'm calling oob, 40, 05, 3rd, DC, THROW, squires, Jfanent, dawg duty, TB, and the rest of yall out.

dont sit here and whine about inflation then turn around and vote for the party responsible for giving corporations unlimited power to do whatever they want. no one wants to hear the hypocrisy. yall bout to be out here voting for the same party that's bought off by the corporations responsible for the price increase, responsible for our crumbling infrastructure, and responsible for our manufacturing base going overseas. dont tell me you care about something than vote for the exact opposite.

Sadly, this is just you ..........

Well, anyway. Oh, for the record, show me where I''ve even come CLOSE to calling Biden a far left commie.

In other words... inflation is my fault and Arch's fault... and Biden bears no responsibility.

You could have said that in way fewer words.

That is a good response. A semi denial wrapped in victimhood... Swish was spot on about GOPers voting for all this crap. Just saying.

Victimhood.

lmao

Corporations are way too easy to blame my man. Without those, we wouldn't have the infrastructure and jobs you are talking about.

I am not dismissing everything you say, but in the end, the government will never do anything to help you that already hasn't been put in place. After that, it is just up to you.

In our conversations, I know that you know that.

Where do you this this government has made it's gold?

At least some of them, yes. Also even Warren Buffet said they pay a lower percentage than his own secretary. Paying "their fair share" means paying the same tax rate as most Americans do. That would also include huge corporations.

No Federal Taxes for Dozens of Big, Profitable Companies

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/business/economy/zero-corporate-tax.html

US super-rich 'pay almost no income tax'

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57383869

To a great extent it's a systemic problem.

There is a difference in some responsibility verses all the responsibility. Inflation is the result of things that have been done over time. The culmination of factors that created this situation didn't suddenly happen in less than a year and a half. Those pretending it did are delusional at best.

And all that goes back to exactly what I said here earlier.

Who donates the most to politicians? The rich. Who wants the money to be reelected? The politicians. Who writes the tax code/laws? The politicians.

Who writes fancy stuff about raising the taxes, but adds in loop holes for the rich? The politicians.




But, I also disagree with Biden that raising taxes on the rich will help alleviate inflation. IMO, the 2 are unrelated in any quantifiable meaning.

Most certainly it won't help the current problem with inflation in the short term. And I'll say something very similar to what I told you before. First, I don't disagree with you about how we got into the situation of the rich and wealthy corporations paying little to no taxes. I think what you stated is pretty much established in facts.

So how does that change the fact that it needs to be fixed? How does that change that the party trying to fix it is getting push back from the other side? You see, our country has gotten itself into bad situations many times throughout its history. That's just the nature of having human beings in charge of anything. Mistakes will be made leading to some bad consequences. But should the point be how we got here? Or should the point he how to fix it now that we're here? We both seem to understand how we got here. The question now is what do we do about it now?

There are 2 totally different issues. Biden said raising taxes on the rich will help stymie inflation. That's nothing but a talking point that sounds good to his constituents. You know, like forever it's been "let's soak the rich". It won't affect inflation.

The other issue is , as I've stated too many times to even repeat, about taxes, tax law, tax code.

How do we fix it? I don't know.

Let's start with term limits. Let's also add in a max spending amount for campaigning? (I don't know if that would do much, but I do know the 'favors' owed after being elected would be less.)


There are other steps and aspects as well. The u.s. political system is a mess.

The word "almost" is not the same as none. It is a misleading word meant to trick you into believing the emotional rhetoric they want you to believe.


Not sure what their AGI is, but unless it is $0.00 then they paid some taxes. A lower rate than that others does not mean a lower amount overall.

One would think that if they were dodging taxes, especially in the realm of what they make that the government would be there taking care if it. Penalties for evasion end up as percentages of the amount owed, and that could be a very large aount.

Does your idea of "same tax rate" include people who end up without having to pay tax because their income is too low?

"Paying their fair share" really is a coded phrase for income redistribution. Billionaires pay more than their fair share (Elon is reportedly paying $11B for 2021). Add to that the tax base they create with their endeavors to get to be billionaires.

If we were "paying our fair share" we would divide the government budget up amongst the tax payers and we each get our "fair share". Bet no one wants that "fair share".

Yes those are two different questions. And as I've already stated I don't think taxing the wealthy is a quick fix to inflation. It's more a talking point that panders to his base. At this point in time one side is promoting a minimum tax percentage of 15% on all major corporations declared income and 20% on income for households worth more than 100 million dollars. I know you're in business for yourself as I used to be. So I do know for a fact that you pay a much higher rate than that making far less money. Will that fix the entire problem? It's a good start at the very least. Like I said, there are proposals on the table to address the problem. You either promote using those tools to correct the issue or you don't.

As I said, you can point out what's wrong and how we got here and ignore proposals in place to address the problem now or you can reach for other possible solutions that would take a lot of time and may not fix it at all. Your choice.

We agree with how we got here. We agree on needing term limits. We agree that our political system is a mess. So we certainly agree more than we disagree. I just see obvious solutions that are on the table now to address it and support using those measures. You seem to think taking a longer term, more unsure method of addressing it and I have no ideas as to why.

I understand how some people think those making so little they can barely afford to live should be paying the same tax rate as those making more. I understand how they don't consider making more Americans homeless and taking food out of childrens mouths an issue. I'm not one of those people.

You're doing your usual dodge here. I'll give you an example. I used to have my own business. It was a small business but I managed to make a decent living. My self employment tax rates was roughly 33%. You're dancing around trying to make the excuse that multi billion dollar corporations and billionaires should be paying a far lower tax rate than a small business person should. That Warren buffet should be paying a lower tax rate than his own secretary should. So you just stick with that.

Raising taxes on corporations does nothing for inflation but stoke it.

Also, apparently lost on some is, "rich" people get taxed at capital gains amounts, not income amounts. The truly "rich" take income in other ways, and have asset increases that affect their "wealth".

And the problem with "one side is promoting a minimum of 15%" and "20% on incomes for households with more than 100 mil" is, it won't happen. don't believe the laws/codes - IF passed - will have any effect.

It sounds good. And it goes back to what I've said too many times to even attempt to repeat.


Now, we could also talk about all of the welfare programs that are abused, that cost hundreds of millions. But that doesn't fit in this thread.

We could talk ....nah, not going there.

So the best course of action is not to try what's being proposed because you have decided that it won't work? Okay.

Dude you are doing your usual dodge and deflect.

Your original statement was "When billionaires do not pay taxes, once again it's income lost."

You are saying that billionaires don't pay anything. ZERO ZIP NADA.

You are again wrong so you pivot and deflect. Your emotional rhetoric was designed to trick people into believe that those evil billionaires are sucking the economy dry and doing nothing else.

You are wrong.

Do you understand that a lower rate than others is still HUGE when you consider orders of magnitude?

Is anyone really surprised that the economy has gone down the crapper since the last major election? One good thing is that we are providing more incentive for folks not to work and expect others to foot the bill for them. That's progress, folks.

Did I say that? No. Thanks for playing.

What I did state is "talking points" have never gotten us anywhere. Thanks.

You're like swish now, putting words in my mouth I never said. (I've noticed swish hasn't replied to me about me calling Biden a liberal commie", or whatever he said)

I could be wrong but I thought all the inflation started when Biden starting pushing for a mininum wage of $15.00 bucks an hour. That was approx. 14 or 15 months ago and it seems like inflation took off right after that. Wages went up and everybodys prices started going through the roof.

Then can you explain what this means other than it won't work?


So not having any effect doesn't mean it won't work?

Only one problem. The federal minimum wage was never increased as Biden had proposed. Those who were against raising that wage to $15 dollars an hour claimed the market would dictate wages. Then employers couldn't find help and had to fight for workers which caused them to raise wages on their own. So the market did actually raise wages on its own just like those against raising the minimum wage said it should. Now somehow that's Biden's fault too. Just ask them.

And the BS Vers posted is just that. Federal unemployment benefits for Covid ended in September of 2021. There are no policies that have been put in place that are "providing more incentive for folks not to work and expect others to foot the bill for them." It's simply a lie.

Keep on keeping on. The fact that many wealthy corporations and billionaires pay zero in taxes is true. It's also true many pay well below the average tax rate of the middle class. Both are true. You don't have to pick only one of them for both of them to be true.

New tactic, lump in "corporations" with "people". It is true that corporations get tax breaks codified where individuals don't.

This does not mean that billionaires pay no taxes, again this was you assertion. Why is it you think you can make an assertion then defend something else?

When you say pay less than the average tax rate are you using manipulated numbers? Does this include capital gains and income tax such that the average of those two would be lower than just income taxes?

Make an assertion and defend it. Don't run in circles making people chase you when they question it while shouting "neener neener neener you can't catch me!"

Some US billionaires had years where they paid no taxes: report

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/...d-years-where-they-paid-no-taxes-report/

You have devoured all of your bone. It's gone now.

taxation could lower inflation.

If you raised taxes on everybody who has some money until they have no more than people who don't have money, prices will always come down if nobody can afford to buy anything.

Only no matter how much your side makes that claim, nobody has came close to proposing that.

So they paid taxes in other years then? To be fair it sounds like they took advantage of laws that you can too. If you have an AGI of $1B and you can report $1B in loses you get to not pay taxes too.

"Some of the richest people in America had years in which they did not pay anything in federal income taxes, according to a report from ProPublica published Tuesday."

I wonder if there was other taxes involved since a single specific tax is mentioned. Did they pay sales tax? Capital gains? State income tax? Confirmation based google search really are not your strong suit. You read a headline and believed the message, again.

I see the entire context of the thread has escaped you. It revolves around the problem of national inflation. Not a state or local issue. That involves only federal income tax. I've provided you proof that billionaires have avoided paying any federal taxes at all in at least some years and very little taxes in others. Both of which I've provided proof of.

While all that seems to have flown over your head I will give you credit for going hard in the paint. Even though you can't seem to score any points.

Problem is, you haven't shown WHY!!!

They obviously didn't break any law, which again goes back to what I've said umpteen times.

but, you do you. Twist and turn, change the topic, and get the last word.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two thoughts. First, the top 5% of wage earners pay almost 60% of the federal income taxes. The bottom 50% pay 0. The rest is paid by the middle class .

Second, when you lefties add taxes on to businesses they just add them on to the price of their product. Businesses do not pay taxes, they collect them from their customers.

First you made an assertion. I challenged that assertion. You asserted that there are billionaires that pay no tax. Your assertion was NOT billionaires pay no federal income tax. Do you see how those two things are not the same thing? All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

Second you did not, in fact, prove that billionaires pay no tax. The article you posted leads with that as a headline. They gotcha. That's how the media works, if you are a headline reader you miss what is really going on. They do this to take advantage of the low information non-thinking reader. The article clearly discusses federal income tax. There is no mention of any other tax, excise, sales, estate or otherwise that may or may not have been paid. Again, just because it has for sides does not make it a square.

You start your insults because you realize you had a gotcha moment and got caught in it.

Let me make this simple for you, show me that your assertion that billionaires "pay no taxes" is indeed correct. Use actual authoritative sources, peer reviewed would be nice but we won't expect that from you this time.

Or just use your little "I give up, you are right" laughing guy to show you were, in fact, incorrect and using emotional rhetoric yet again.

WTH are you talking about? We've both already agreed that it's baked into the tax code which is full of loopholes. What part of that did you miss? So how do you think we'll get politicians to agree to totally rewrite the tax code? A simple solution is a minimum tax percentage based on profit which with which to circumvent using all of those loopholes in order to not pay their fair share without having to rewrite the entire tax code. There's nothing there that is twisted.

You just get so frustrated when someone presents a reasonable debate you disagree with at some point you just go off the deep end. I tried to have a reasonable debate with you but the end result is you threw a tantrum. I knew that was the predictable outcome and it's why I generally don't waste my time trying.

Just more BS from you. You know the context and you knew what was being stated. I provided you evidence backing it up and you're still droning on about it. I know in the game Wheel of Fortune you can buy a vowel. Sadly for you I don't think you can buy a clue.

Obviously you did not provide evidence. You provided a headline that stated what you want it to state. That is not actual evidence.

Again with an insult. Your go to when you can't make produce the evidence you think you did.

Would that be like the Alternate Minimum Tax enacted in 2012?

14-15 months ago is when we started seeing impact from covid vaccines and restrictions were being lifted. This led to people getting out and spending. Spending came from 2 main sources.

1. The government had printed off nearly 5 trillion in a year.
2. Pent-up spending from people couldn't spend due to covid restrictions

15 months ago the flood gates open. This created a lot of demand on a already strained supply lines. When you have high demand and low supply, prices go up. Thats what were seeing. What I find odd is people keep paying the prices. I would think people would get to a point where they would say "No way, I'm not paying that much." I see all these businesses packed. People either don't care or they lack the will power to hold back. My guess is the latter given the instant gratification society we now have. On the other hand, there's the mind set of prices keep going up, I should buy it before it gets even more expensive.

I think people just want to get out and live again.
No matter the cost.

For the record.........I did not post "BS." I have been running a small business since last May. There are plenty of incentives in addition to unemployment that provides incentives for people NOT to work.

I am not asking anyone. to agree w/me on the merits of whether that is good or bad, but they exist and calling it BS doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Personally speaking and I'm not asking anyone to agree or disagree..........it is my belief that our society is in trouble when we provide incentives to not work. It is my opinion that when one strives to improve oneself---whether it be through education or hard work---he/she is not only taking empowerment of their own state of affairs, but also empowering our nation.

John Smith came to this land long, long ago...........>>He had a mantra: “He that will not worke, shall not eate.” That is how our country was built to be the great country it has become. We work hard. Immigrants flocked to this country for better opportunities, whether they be economic, political, or to escape religious persecution. I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud that my family came from nothing and succeeded due to the opportunities that this great country has provided us. I am proud to see how anyone who has the "want to" can succeed in this country if they are determined enough to overcome the obstacles in their path. No, things are not always fair. Some face stiffer challenges than others. But, there is no Caste system in this country. We go out of our way to help those that are facing dire circumstances. But, while one can lead a horse to water, one can't force the horse to drink. Corny, but true.

One more thing...........and I can write a book on this...........but, I am actually on the side of the poor and those who face prejudice. I dedicated a huge part of my life trying to empower them. I completely despise the "Woke" crowd who brainwashes those people that they "need" handouts and are owed something. Psychologically, you are telling them they are not good enough to earn things on their own. That they are dependent upon the good will of others. That is a terrible thing to say to a youngster. My message has always been that you might have a tougher road than others, but that just means you have to fight harder, be better, be more resilient, more determined.........and if you are........you can find success. I told them I believe in them w/all my heart. That they are not inferior. They are not less intelligent. That they do not need to rely on others to put bread on the table. Instead, I encourage them to outwork others and grasp all that they can from life and to take advantage of the laws that and programs that can assist them. No shame in that. But, by God................NEVER EVER, rely on the pity and handouts of others. Take empowerment of your own life! And all y'all enablers can kiss my behind if you think otherwise.

1. Bezos' comment was about how Biden somehow thinks taxing the rich will address inflation. It won't. Anybody with 2 working brain cells know that to be true. That's not to say the rich shouldn't be taxed. It's just saying Biden is an idiot. Also... yeah, he probably doesn't want to be taxed more. Both can be true.

2. Biden has been in politics for like 800 years. He was there for all of the trickle down economics, deregulation, etc. He's a democrat... so yeah, he's got to make a show of it. But before that he's a politician. He (and we) know where his bread is buttered. The corps and ultra wealthy drive big money through those special interest groups that enrich all of our politicians, so Biden can spare me this whole white knight shtick. It rings as hollow as his head.

Nobody proposes that. They just set out to do it.

The problem is this....The talk is to swallow the problem from the top down, but the actions taken swallow things from the bottom up.

When you drain a sink, it drains from the bottom to the top. That stuff floating on the top of the water is the last to go down.

Great post. One additional factor also causing inflation is the War in Ukraine.

Oober - I didn't see or here anything about Biden claiming that taxing the rich will cure inflation. Anyone with half a brain can see that's clearly not a solution for inflation - to me that sounds like a manipulation of what Biden might have said but I'll happily read any quotes or speeches or links that show what Biden actually said as opposed to what Faux News might have tried to insinuate he said.

EDIT: Like many things, it only takes a moment to look at what's happening GLOBALLY to figure out whether (as some claim) all this inflation is because of Biden or if other factors are at play. Inflation is impacting EVERYONE. In the UK - currently 7%.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-12196322

Yes, there are reasons for inflation. No, it's not only here. It's not all about "is this inflation because of Biden?" as much as it is expecting leaders to lead!

So far these are his two plans to battle inflation (and yes, he referred to the first one as a plan)...

1. "Folks, prices are higher."

2. "Make the corporations pay their fair share."

The sad part is intelligent people using the second as a defendable position and "attacking" the other side with it. "Inflation is your fault, you voted for republicans". Not that this should be surprising since it is an administration 100% hell-bent on creating division on every issue... hell, they just paid a six-month study group to come up with the term "ultra-maga"!

Well those are two of the dumbest things I have seen Biden say. No reason to doubt that what you said is true but they are so dumb I guess I need to dig a little myself.

Then tell us what those "incentives not to work" are. You are self employed. So explain to us what is in place to give hourly workers these incentives not to work you speak of. Bring receipts. You made some sweeping claim and then posted a bunch of gibberish that was totally unrelated to your sweeping accusation.

So what does any of that have to do with billionaires and corporations paying at least a minimum tax rate that is even below what people making 200k a year do? People make that sound like it's some attack on them or trying to redistribute wealth by simply demanding they pay a fair tax rate. How can anyone twist that so badly?

Everybody that has read this thread understood what was posted and understand the very rich and many major corporations aren't paying their fair share but you. Everyone understood the topic revolved around the federal income tax but you. In case the math escapes you here, that makes this a you problem.

Some agree and some disagree, but at least they comprehended what was posted.

bro i felt like i had to bow out of my own thread because we got posters still making excuses for the same corporations that do everything imaginable to screw them and the country over.

we're seeing the greed play out in real time, and people still out here defending these dudes. imagine 1% of the population owning over 50% of the wealth, forcing the 99% to compete over less than 50% of the remaining wealth, and defending that.

like damn bro i love money like everybody else, but people literally sell their souls and vote against their own well being just for the hope of some wealthy dude sharing his leftovers with them.

we literally got dudes STILL arguing for less regulations and less taxes. again, i'm struggling to have conversations with people who routinely vote to screw other people over. its like so many people only value their lives based on how better they have it over someone else. that's the only thing that matters; materialism and resource hoarding.

it would be like me getting a new BMW, and then getting mad if OCD gets a new BMW as well, as if i'm the only one allowed to level up. like damn people just cant be happy if other people are also doing well in life. and our economic policies the last 40 years really reflects the disgusting levels of greed and selfishness that powers American culture.

I wasn't the one that made an absurd assertion that I can't back up, in this thread.

Nice of you to speak for everyone though, I am sure the rest of us can now not post and let you do it all, since you, ya know, speak for everyone.

Again. Can you provide actual proof that "billionaires paid no tax" like you asserted or is this another hyperbolic assertion from you?

OCD is an SUV/Truck guy, not a sports car or BMW guy. Just saying, in case you are a secret 1%er fixin' to hand out cars.

We are different in that you are here to argue and I am here to discuss. That does not give you the right to attack me w/claims that I am posting gibberish. I have my beliefs in what is best for the individual and the nation. You have a different set of beliefs. That's fine and I won't attack you and move the goal posts. Trying to pretend that there aren't generations of families who have been living off the many forms of government assistance and the kind acts of others such as churches is unfair.

I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree w/my belief that we would all be better off if we empowered the individual instead of telling them that are dependent upon others in order to have a roof over their head. And your attacks will do nothing to change my mind about that.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/why-billionaires-dont-pay-taxes

That article talks about how they get out of paying much of their tax bills, sometimes all of it. There are many others too, if you do a google search, you can answer most of your questions about the subject quickly.

You see, I'm not against people or even business getting ahead and becoming wealthy due to their hard work and innovation. I mean that's the American way and people should be rewarded for their hard work and good decisions. I don't have a problem with any of that. I would venture to guess that you don't either. But when those same people make decisions to pay their workers paltry wages, no benefits and feel they should be protected from paying their fair share of taxes, that's where I have a problem.

According to some I guess any time a couple making 250k have to pay their 35.88% it must be to redistribute wealth. Because that's what they call it if you expect a corporation to pay a minimum of 15%. How people can argue against that stuns me. How they make that sound like some crazy left wing idea amazes me.

Thus far they exploit every loophole to minimize the taxes they pay. Which I can't blame them for. But for people to try and proclaim the tax code isn't rigged in their favor is just crazy. They use specialized accounting firms to exploit every way around paying taxes possible. They would rather pay them than pay taxes. Then, on top of often times paying little to no taxes, it's perfectly legal for them to get communities across America to bid against each other to give them special tax abatements worth sometimes millions upon millions of dollars just to open a new plant or distribution center in their town. It's little more than legalized blackmail which sets up a system where their employees have to pay state and local taxes while they themselves do not because they were given huge breaks just to be there.

The excuse is, "Yeah, but they brought jobs to the community." How is that an excuse for allowing multi billion dollar corporations from contributing their fair share to the tax base?

It just never ends all the excuses and reasons given why the people and corporations with the most should be exempt from paying their fair share like the same Americans who make far less do. But it never ends.

Of course this once again is specific about federal income tax. It is true there was ways to get around income tax, but the reality is that billionaires still pay taxes.

The topic of how much and fair share is different, but that was not the original assertion. The original assertion was "billionaires that pay no taxes".

As an aside, the methods for reducing tax liability used can be used by anyone. It isn't a special carve out for stinkin rich people.

FATE got the response in for me. Maybe I should've also added that I'm all for a conversation on inflation and/or fair tax rate/code and all that... but IMO, if you want to have an intelligent conversation, it's gotta be separated from what Biden has coming out of his face-hole.

And that's a typical response. You see, all I've asked for is that you back up your claim. What are these incentives you speak of? Yet thus far you have refused. You see that would actually mean you would have to bring facts to the table to back up your assertions. I will always call out people who make wild claims without giving any evidence to support such claims.

We are all entitled to our own opinions. Here is your claim...


The federal unemployment extension ended in September of 2021. Anyone who had received unemployment according to their state guidelines, their benefits have expired. Which means that incentive no longer exists and hasn't for eight months now.

Adults, at least in Ohio and many other states are not entitled to welfare benefits. They only receive benefits based on having children. It's their children's benefits they receive.

You see, everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. They are not entitled to their own set of facts. That's the difference. But I understand why it's much easier to blame me for the fact you won't back up your claim.

Like I said, you're the only one who has questioned this because you're the only one who doesn't get it. And people claim I'm only here to argue.

What are you talking about? Everyone in the country is aware of how many programs there are to provide money, housing, clothing, etc in place. Hell, how have you supported yourself since you left the work force years ago. There are so many different ways for people to collect money from the government that is almost hard to count them. Please don't pretend you are unaware of those sources of receiving money. Just stop.

What kills me is that certain folks think that I am against the poor and oppressed because I don't believe enabling folks to "survive" is good for their long-term benefits and it's not good for our country. I actually believe that people would be better off if they were empowered rather than enabled. I've told this story many times, but my wife is very successful and escaped poverty through education, drive, and hard-work. Her sister and her sister's children have never worked a day in their lives. They live off of various assistance programs that in are in-place through the government, not to mention the money we send them every freaking month. None of them are happy. That's not a life style we should encourage. We should change the mind-set of those facing difficult circumstances and do that at a very young age rather than telling them that they aren't good enough to earn rewards on their own and how they are at the mercy of the corrupt government.

Again, you did not like my answer and that is your right. But please stop w/this nonsense that I am making things up.

inflation started before the war in Ukraine.

bottom line.. wealthy people have billions of tax breaks. remove the tax breaks and tax problems are solved.

Flat tax everyone and every company at 15% - that won' happen because the non-wealthy people will complain they have to pay taxes and not get a refund.

Not just income, capital gains too. Both taxed equally.

But a flat tax would screw the poorest who now pay no taxes and many get refunds due to EIC and other credits. Going to a flat tax would tax them and take away that extra. I couldn't care less about the EIC. I think it's BS anyway. I raised my kids on my own dime. I got a few small EICs early on but back then it was a couple hundred bucks. Today it is thousands. Not exactly sure how much and it's based on number of kids and other crap, but at $250 per kid per month (the advanced amount during the pandemic) or $3,000 per Kid/year, it adds up fast. Some families with 5-6 kids are cleaning up if they get that full amount. I don't think this is fair to people with no kids, or people who are more responsible to the planet and only have one or two kids, for that matter. And it is WAY TOO MUCH imo. I could see a couple grand a year in most cases, but 3K a year per kid? Octomom would get 24K/year just for producing kids. Any idiot can produce a kid, well unless there is a medical reason they can't.

I would rather that money went into community assistance programs to be administered to apply to only those in need. And my reason is seeing what many do with income tax returns, blowing it on things they can't afford like 10 cent millionaires. They go out and but 4K 65" TVs and crap like that, more often than not. I don't know about other areas of the country, but that is common around here. And I don't begrudge them those things, I just think the money should go toward the raising or well being of kids it was intended for. Hope that doesn't make me a big meanie.

Another child tax credit that blows my mind is the adoption credit. My wife and I raised a grandson for five years with zero child support or government aid. We were told we made too much and since we were related, he didn't qualify for the same things abandoned kids are eligible for. And yet, my brother and his wife adopted two daughters and got 60 grand that year for a tax return. Later they adopted 3 more kids and got another big credit, but not as big this time (I think). How do they justify this, when so many grandparents are paying to raise kids out of pocket? Since the heroin epidemic hit rural America, there has been an explosion of grandparents taking on grandkids. This was much more rare when I was coming up.

How do I support myself?



I worked for 30 years. How do you support yourself since you retired?

Yeah, those "programs" you mentioned sure make people live well. Why would anyone want to work when you can barely survive if you don't?

And let's not pretend that these "housing programs" are the answer. Are there some available? Yes. Do some people get such benefits? Yes. But i can tell you that at least in the Nashville area there's not nearly enough to go around. It's not like people can apply for housing and suddenly they have a place to live. It doesn't work that way. I see it on the news every night here.

Once again, most all of those programs will only help people with children. Maybe you should also be looking at the fact many wages in America today are so low there isn't much incentive to work.

I never believed in that concept. I started off making very little money but through hard work and applying myself I advanced and made a good living. I made wise investments. I managed my money well. But even then, when I started out, I could make a car payment, afford my rent and buy groceries on what was at the time considered a low income. You can't do that now.

Maybe that was part of the incentive that drove me.

Hey I do appreciate you bringing something that supported your position. That's all I was looking for. You see in a discussion it's not up to me to back up your position.

I really don't think you are against the poor. I just don't think you understand how many people would be impacted if some of these programs weren't available. I don't think you realize just how little resources are available compared to the actual number of people that are in need. And I get it. There certainly are those who take advantage of the system at the bottom of the social ladder. But I'm not ready to punish those who are actually in need for the actions of those who abuse the system or label them as all being the same.

Here is something that may or may not surprise you. Should people be able to pay wages that require people to need federal benefits to supplement their pay? Should tax payers be supplementing business in terms of food and medical care to their employees?

Federal Social Safety Net Programs: Millions of Full-Time Workers Rely on Federal Health Care and Food Assistance Programs

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45

Once again thanks for your reply which certainly helped clarify your position. We don't see it quite the same way but sadly much of what gets paid in these benefits go to people that are actually working because that's the way our economic system is rigged. I call that corporate welfare.

I should also stipulate that I couldn't care less what others are getting and that I don't blame them for getting whatever they got. I don't want to take away from them just because I didn't qualify or get money like that. I just think it ridiculous and mismanaged, especially the adoption money, but EIC too. Same money could go a long way toward ending poverty on a local level if it was properly managed.

Bro, you'd be astounded at how many game the system for EIC. Can't count the conversations I've had, over the 16 years of owning a restaurant, with employees that wanted to cut their hours (if I wouldn't pay them under the table) because of how it would affect their EIC. "Right now I'm hitting the sweet spot..." GTHOH

For those that don't know, the EIC is incrementally higher up to a certain income threshold... and then starts to decrease as they earn more. Talk about whack!

I had to stop reading and it's why I said you are here to argue. It is also why people accuse you of twisting their words around to fit your particular point of view.

Not once did I say anything resembling the programs led to people living well or that they worked. A huge part of my rhetoric is that people don't live well when they receiving such assistance and that those programs are NOT the answer. In fact, that is why I insist that we encourage young folks to take empowerment of their own lives even when they are facing uphill battles that my children never once had to endure. It is my belief that enabling is actually a subtle and rather silent way of oppressing those who are already facing dire circumstances.

So what you asserted and what your "proof" says are different so you are now going to lay on the floor and give up.

You're a funny guy. Have you ever considered a career in standup?

That was a very convenient way to ignore addressing the rest of my post. It seems like the only go to line you have left to avoid a discussion. I've seen you use it several times just today. Very predictable.

So I guess you won't address how there are people who work full time, millions of them in fact who are still eligible for these benefits. How about the fact that often times people are products of their environment? Is there a chance and do they have some opportunity to work themselves out of it? Yes they do. But they are often times in a situation where they have no role models or examples to follow.

You seem to feel that making it possible for people to have a roof over their heads and actually having something to eat is "enabling". Some of us believe that is just keeping them from being homeless and starving.

So you can't actually support your assertion thus you take personal shots.

I already did. So far everyone who has read this thread got the message, accept you. Let that sink in for just a minute.

Inflation started as soon as the election was stolen.

No, you gave me a headline that was a hook that when set said otherwise. Again, there are many types of tax, your article mentioned one type (Federal Income tax) and that at times some billionaires got out of it. That does not equate to paying no taxes. You can spin, twist and insult all you like (and you will, it's your thing) but the fact is you made an absurd assertion and your only real proof is "well, I told you so and thus it is true". It does not work that way.

See if you can come up with something else to be insulting with, since you have failed to prove your point. And maybe the message you think they got is not the message they actually got, but again, you think you speak for everyone else. It doesn't work that way. Let that sink in for a few hours, maybe you will stop earning your nickname.

Are you saying inflation never happened? Because EVERYBODY knows the election was fair and honest, at least it was by the left. I can't believe their are people who still believe this after all the proof and evidence to the contrary. What's it gonna take to get through?

Any way you slice it this is all bad for Biden. This is disaster, and leftist policies lead us here. Shut down the country, keep it shut down even to those who want to work, throw billions at Ukraine for some reason while people at home struggle. Then blame inflation on Russia.....bro we did not have to get involved. Get millionaire talking heads on TV saying "if that's the price we have to pay for democracy". Nah democracy would have been just fine staying out of Ukraine.


For all of Trumps jackassery everyone was screaming from the top of their lungs he was going to start WW3 and here we are with the dude they propagated as a "healer" flirting real military action with 1 of 2 superpowers that could send us there.

Tough albeit arrogant talk with another big ego leader = WW3
Sending billions in military equipment to fight a proxy war that THEY KNOW we are supplying = Not WW3

Call it whatever you want, this IS a proxy war, it is. flat out. A proxy war from multiple nations is still a proxy war.

It's the rhetoric, it's the hypocrisy and it's obnoxious.

No freaking Chit Charlie. Maybe read the post I responded to as well as my comment.

Wow! MEME THE LEFT sure puts out bizarre and sadly pathetic videos, huh? smh. What kind of pea brain even thinks that crap up? Put that brain in a gnat's ass and it would rattle like a BB in a box car. I guess that's what you get when you follow some losers channel with a Maga hat for it's thumbnail. Yep, that is a dead giveaway that what you are about to see WILL BE STUPID.

Hilarious! These puppets have no idea...LOL!



She says "you know" 10 times.

He isn't trying to eat people, but maybe trying to starve our infants. Maybe an effort to say if those people had abortions, those kids wouldn't be starving.

Just how much more twisted can your thinking become?

https://twitter.com/philrosenn/status/1526615388196286465?s=20&t=7oZsdr2NgMxqcT-n_4TmpA


Wait, what? If the dollar is up 14% against the world's other major currencies, how can the economy be so bad? How can inflation be so bad? Hmm...

You're going to use a comparison to the Euro to try to tell me I'm not paying 20-30% percent more for everything I buy? Or that gas hasn't nearly tripled??

Or that none of that matters, because I'll have 14 more cents for every dollar I convert, when I go buy groceries in Montenegro?

You're off you're rocker, dude.

I don't believe it's the same thing (I'm not an expert, so someone please correct me if/where I'm wrong).

Foreign Exchange is simply the value of currencies vs each other. IIRC, Europe is also getting hammered by inflation.

Yes. It simply means that they are getting hit even harder, or at the least are less able to absorb the impact of what is happening.
As FATE points out, very clearly, the inflation is VERY real and VERY bad. Any suggestion to the contrary is just gaslighting.

I understand what you're saying and it is a very valid point. I would also like to add that when people ignore that the current inflation issue isn't a global issue right now they're more concerned about blaming the current administration for inflation while ignoring it's actually a global issue. It sucks for all of us. It's not as if I'm out here on an island and not having it impact my life just like everyone else.

But it's happening on a global scale impacting almost every nation and person on the globe. Trying to isolate it to a single country and a single president is a very short sighted view if the situation which I see happening over and over again.

PPE mentioned gas lighting and I think it's coming from both directions.

True, true, and I'm sure the short-sighted blame game will never stop.

I'm just speaking for myself and a recurring theme I keep seeing from the "other side".

I am NOT blaming the current administration for inflation. I'm blaming the current administration for passing the buck and blaming others for the problem. That's gaslighting from the top down, and average intellect sees right through it. Every time someone points out that Biden seems to have a weak plan for any number of problems, the other side screams as if he's being blamed for the actual problem... the two are very different.

Got it. I didn't mean to imply you per say with my comments. I do think it's crazy to blame it on things that really aren't major contributors to inflation by the current administration. The blame game is something we see far too much of from both sides. I'm not sure how one can have a "great plan" for the global oil market situation or global inflation but at the very least I would like to see the current administration actually break down how inflation is a global problem, why that situation actually exists and that it has to be addressed on a global scale.

Americans are more stressed about money than ever, and it’s hurting our mental health
PUBLISHED WED, MAY 18 20227:04 AM EDT

Americans are more stressed about money than they’ve ever been, according to the American Psychological Association’s latest Stress In America Survey.

“Eighty-seven percent of Americans said that inflation and the rising costs of everyday goods is what’s driving their stress,” said Vaile Wright, senior director of health care innovation at the American Psychological Association.

More than 40% of U.S. adults say money is negatively impacting their mental health, according to Bankrate’s April 2022 Money and Mental Health report.

“I was in debt off and on all of my 20s and early 30s,” Tawnya Schultz, founder of The Money Life Coach, told CNBC. “I was in this debt cycle of trying to get out of debt, paying off debt, getting back into it. And I was just tired of feeling like I could never get out of it or feeling like I was always going to have debt.”

Read more...
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/18/american-money-stress-mental-health.html

No brainiac, I'm saying something is rotten and it's corporate greed. YES, the inflation is real. Yes, it is global. But if the dollar is up 14%, it should have 14% more buying power, yet it doesn't. This whole supply chain shortage BS only started after people refused to work for slave wages. Isn't capitalism grand.

The US economy is built on the back of slavery. First it was real slaves in chains, now it's economic slavery. Without dirt cheap labor, US corps don't know how to run. Everyday, year after year, corps have to have a bigger and bigger return on investment for corps to compete for investment dollars. Fiduciary duty has become an excuse for all kinds of bad crap. For example, a company takes shortcuts to save and ends up creating a baby formula shortage, with babies dying. Or a company tricks the consumer by downsizing the amount of chips in a bag, while the bag remains the same size, with only a minor increase in price. But a year before the pandemic, you got 16 oz of chips for say $3 ($0.1875 cents per ounce), now you get 11.5 oz for $4 ($0.3478 cents per ounce). And if you weren't paying attention, you would never see it, but that is an 85.5% increase in price over two years. And this type of increase is across the board. And this happened throughout the pandemic on a regular basis.

This new inflation, due to supply chain shortages, is a corporate facade to cover the massive theft (transfer of wealth) during the pandemic IMO.

So, working people going from earning a few bucks more an hour have mostly lost money (buying power) since getting those raises. Is this how our economy should work? I used to really be a strong believer in capitalism, but I have lost most of that faith.

Oh boy, that's a zinger.

So the FDA should just close a facility suspected of cause and keep it closed?
Long after every shred of evidence says they weren't responsible?
Knowing that it produces 40% of the baby formula in the US?
With no contingency plan for the impact of the shortage?
No regard for the sanctity of feeding babies and the effect on parents?
At the tail end of a PANDEMIC that has destroyed any and all supply chains with or without product shortage?
With an economy going in the tank due to consumers being crushed by inflation?
Have people burning up roads looking for formula when fuel prices are the highest in human history??


You know the funny thing? Joe brags that he knew about it all along and thinks anyone above induced coma is impressed.


This script is straight out of Hollywood, and the obvious next scene should just be Joe taking the Costanza approach.

Whenever he needs to "think something up" to approach the next problem... he should just Do The Opposite.

that is about ridiculous as saying... My sister and I both eat McDonald's for breakfast lunch and dinner every day. But, I don't eat quite as much as my sister. Therefore; I'm healthy.

Clearly, you have never run a business. Otherwise, you would understand how wrong you are. The vast majority of businesses need to be competitively priced or they go out of business because consumers will go to their competitors or stop purchasing that product/service. That is why companies only raise their rates when they have to.

Inflation is a huge problem because of politicians. That last round of Biden Bucks flooded the market with cash. Everyone was telling them not to give more money away because it would cause massive inflation. Now, here we are and we all have to suffer for years to come.

Those people don't understand that. They just want their "free" stuff.

Dow sheds 1,164 points in worst day since 2020
Target says inflation will hurt profitability for the rest of the year

#DarnThatPutin

tomorrow could be worse. lots of earnings coming out tomorrow.

futures are already down 100 pts.

Melvin Capital says it’s winding down funds and returning money to investors during market turmoil.

Don't you dare use "THESE PEOPLE" with me in the quote. You deserve all the choice words I can throw at you at this moment. Take that crap back to the trailer park. Freebies, smfh.

Clearly, you don't know a damn thing about me. And you are not very intelligent and it shows. There must be competitors to be competing, Kraft and the other big food companies HAVE NO COMPETITION. If there were competition in these shortages, the competitors would step up to fill the void. But there is only ONE maker of many of these formulas, like similac. And children that NEED a specific type are screwed when that company drops the ball. But hey, act indignant toward me all you want little feller, it's who you are.

This BS started as soon as the first BIG pandemic checks went out. The government opened the faucett and the corporate hogs swarmed the trough to squeeze every penny they could from those with the least. How else do you think they made billions while the country was shut down? Prove me wrong, you can't.

It's a long overdue correction.

Sadly, this is true. However, it's not entirely their fault because some use the "free stuff" as an incentive to keep them from trying to achieve. It's reminds me of the old psychological phrase as the opium of the people in that you give them just enough to allow them to survive, but are effectively oppressing them by reducing their drive to achieve. And the dummies out there that support such legislation fall for it and act like it is a gift or a right of passage.

Another point about the stock market, 401ks, and all the financial tools talked about in here... The fed has pumped so much into the stock market over the last decade that is should be listed right along with welfare on the handouts list. Those profits are only a hair away from ill-gotten gains if they are not acknowledged. Had that money gone towards the poor and working class, this would be a much different country right now.

So the whole 'Free Market' spiel is in fact a delusion when it picks winners and losers. Poor people are scum for getting food and housing assistance, but a mid management guy with a 401K that only survived due to a bailout is not? One is no better than the other IMO. And over half the country has ZERO stock, so that money only benefited the investors, who hardly need it according to folks like Peen and 40. How about those FREEBIES? BILLIONS, if not trillions.

Do you really think a person working full time for low wages that still needs public assistance just to get by, NOT THRIVE, is being incentivized to stay poor? That may be one of the most disconnected things I've ever read out of you. I struggle to think you truly believe that. The problem in this country is not a lack of jobs or a lack of will to work. The problem is limited opportunities to actually break the bonds of economic wage slavery and move into the middle class. But if everyone had 200K/year jobs, we can see now exactly how that would go. Corporate greed driven inflation.

I don't think I've ever heard anybody exclaim, they just want to stay poor and live the great welfare life. Who even thinks this way? Truth is, given real opportunity, most those people (if educated/skilled) would jump at it. And it's our loss as a nation, because we will never know how many great minds have been unable to realize their true potential due to being impoverished. You know, those people.

Are you really going to go "Pit" on me? Where did I say anything about a person working full time and needing assistance? That's a different animal, OCD.

You may not believe this...........but I am highly educated and have worked in the educational field for a long time. Just today, I opened up a second business in addition to our home improvement business. This one is a tutoring business and I decided to do so because I have been receiving so many requests to tutor kids since I retired. Before you bash me w/words like "disconnected," please understand that I am actually on the side of those who are poor and are getting assistance. I want to empower them rather than enable them. Enablement is a form of oppression. Empowerment is about succeeding no matter what the circumstances are. Please don't place me into some stupid ass category that know-nothings have created. I do not think you are about oppressing people. I just think you are misinformed and not cognizant of where the deepest problems lie.

Sorry Vers, the 'those people' pissed me off and I misunderstood your partial agreeing. I knew you never said that, it was a scenario I made up to test your feelings on the matter. I know, deep down, you have some compassion for poor people. But some posters talk about them like they are all trash. Some, while being part of the group they are bashing.

No worries. I grew up very poor. Not as bad as my wife's situation, but it sucked. People looking down on your all the time. Feeling inferior to those who had nice things. My parents were a bit different in that my dad did have a good job and that company went bankrupt and we faced a very tough time. He eventually got it back together, but it took awhile. The crazy thing is that they never accepted any aide. They told my brother and I not to complain. They stressed hard work and education as a means to an out. Thank God for them and their strong will. We were poor, but we were proud. It's like the Stevie Wonder song where he says: Loved that song growing up. I could so relate even though I wasn't black. Here it is:




And the lyrics:


A boy is born in hard time Mississippi
Surrounded by four walls that ain't so pretty
His parents give him love and affection
To keep him strong, moving in the right direction
Living just enough, just enough for the city

His father works some days for fourteen hours
And you can bet, he barely makes a dollar
His mother goes to scrub the floors for many
And you'd best believe, she hardly gets a penny
Living just enough, just enough for the city

His sister's black, but she is sho'nuff pretty
Her skirt is short, but Lord her legs are sturdy
To walk to school, she's got to get up early
Her clothes are old, but never are they dirty
Living just enough, just enough for the city

Her brother's smart, he's got more sense than many
His patience's long, but soon he won't have any
To find a job is like a haystack needle
'Cause where he lives they don't use colored people
Living just enough, just enough for the city, yeah

Everybody, city, yeah
(Living just enough for the city, whoa) Ain't nothin' but the city
(Living just enough for the city, whoa) Everybody, city, yeah
(Living just enough for the city, whoa) Ain't nothin' but the city
(Living just enough for the city, whoa) Living for the city, yeah
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa) The funky, cryin' city
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa) Living for the city

Ain't nothin' but the city
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa) Everybody clap you hand together now
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa) For the city
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa) For the city, yeah, yeah
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa)
(Living just enough, for the city, whoa)

The bus for New York City!
Hey bus driver, I'm getting on that, hold it
Thanks a lot
Wow, New York, just like I pictured it
Skyscrapers and everything

Psst, hey, hey brother, hey come here slick
Hey you look, you look hip man
Hey, you wanna make yourself five bucks, man?
Yeah, brother
Look here, run this across the street for me right quick
Okay, run this across the street for me

What? (Up against that goddamn car!) Huh? (Let's go)
I didn't know, what?
Gimme your hands up, you punk
I'm just going across the street
Put that leg up, shut your mouth
Hell no, what did I do?
Okay, turn around, turn around

Put your hands behind your back, let's go, lets go
A jury of your peers having found you guilty, ten years
What?
Come on, come on, get in that cell, [censored]
God, Lord

His hair is long, his feet are hard and gritty
He spends the life walking the streets of New York City
He's almost dead from breathing in air pollution
He tried and fought, but to him there's no solution
Living just enough, just enough for the city (yeah, yeah, yeah)

I hope you hear inside my voice of sorrow
And that it motivates you to make a better tomorrow
This place is cruel, nowhere could be much colder
If we don't change, the world will soon be over
Living just enough, stop giving just enough for the city

That is inner city poverty poetry, y'all.

We didn't have a lot growing up, but we always had what we needed. That was average middle class in my small hometown. My cousins thought we were rich, I learned not long ago, and I laughed in disbelief until I heard them tell us why. We ordered pizza out a couple times a week. LMAO, this is why they thought we were rich. It's sad but true.

And like you, never taken a dime I didn't earn. I've had enough wrong with me for at least a decade, that I would probably get disability the first time I apply... yet I haven't and probably never will. We are far from 'rich', but my idea of rich starts at 7 figures liquid, with assets to boot. We aren't hurting and are comfortable. But sometimes things come along and put you in a bind due to no fault of your own. Your dad is just one example. The business I lost in 2008 was another. Hell, it's 2022 and we are just back to a point that I no longer resent that loss. But life can do this stuff to people and when I hear others talk trash about 'those people', rather it's wealth, race, religion, ect. in utter ignorance; I see red.

The things used to separate us into groups with varied social status, that a person can be born into instead of achieving, should never be used as a weapon against them. I don't blame trust fund babies for their wealth, but I might judge them on their actions with said wealth. I don't hold anyone's religion against them, until they use it to hurt or impose their will upon others. And race is obvious... But I do hold ignorance and stupidity against those who refuse to grow intellectually. IMO, it's okay to be naive, young and dumb, or to not 'know everything'. I stumble across new things all the time. Being willfully uneducated or stupid in today's day and age (not mentally defective or handicapped) is such a waste of life and burden on greater society, it's just something I struggle to even tolerate. And I'm far from the brightest bulb in the box, but a long way from some of the crap I'm accused of in here. I've said it many times, I have no tolerance for stupidity. I think part of being an adult is growing every day by learning new things or more about things you already know. I don't get the crowd that sits on the couch watching reality TV night after night, never cracking a book or taking a course to improve themselves, while blaming everyone else for their less than stellar lives. Those are the dumbest people alive, IMO. Probably shouldn't think this way, but that was my impression of the average Trump voter in 2016; beyond the bigots, supremacists, and those wanting a dictator of course. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that, but it's how I feel.

Thanks for the response. I agree w/a lot of it, but not all of it. That's cool. I appreciate that it was genuine.

Believe it or not, I prefer this. It's just so damn hard to do in here. Like I said in another post, maybe us burying the hatchet and having dialogue can change that. I'll try. But I will always go off when I see BS. It's who I am.

That would be great. I actually think there are some intelligent people here. That is very unlike many message boards. It would be awesome if we could move beyond the constant one-sided rhetoric and I gotta win this argument for my side and EVOLVE into discussions that were more intellectual and reasonable in nature. I know I am in the minority on this..........but I think our nation would be better served if we try to work together rather than alienating one another by harping on the faults of one side or the other.

Look.............I truly believe the powers that be have encouraged us peons to fight among ourselves way back to feudal days and perhaps even before that. It's a means to oppression. I want to fight back. With intelligence. With resolve. With compassion. With a game plan of you aren't going to sucker us anymore. I believe in the power of the people! I believe that if we unite, they can't keep us down. I believe that most of us can work together to create a better future. There will always be hateful, ignorant souls in this world. But, why let them rule?

I truly believe that most people in this country are good folks. I'm not kidding. One of my favorite parts about our new home improvement business are my sales calls. I do it all right now including sales, advertising, hiring/firing, scheduling, etc..........but, I most enjoy the sales. I visit people and talk to them. I hate high pressure sales people and thus, I am just the opposite when I go on a call. I listen. I try and educate on what they ask. I am honest. I allow them to make the sale. People respect honesty. Most of us are really pretty damn good people. Let's work together to Unite rather than working hard to further the divide.

That takes cooperation, and it only takes one troll to bring it down. That's the real problem in here. I'm all for honest open dialogue on all of this, we simply don't have to agree to get along. But when crazy comes to town, or irrational, or even downright offensive... I can't help myself bro, I have to fight back. That's my delima. However, I'm game for you and I trying, and whoever else joins in, as long as we keep it real. First 'pedo dems' that's dropped though, the gloves must come off. I hope you get that.

And unlike you, I think our country is broken, and I'm not sure we can ever come back together. Some things make it very hard, like January the 6th. I am resolved to see those people jailed. All of them that participated should pay a steep price IMO. The leaders, bro you don't even want to know how I feel about those ass clowns. But good people, with much effort, might just be what puts us back on the path to truly making America great. Right now, we're an S-hole country IMO, no better than CHina, Russia, or North Korea except for our wealth, which seems to be dwindling fast.

Understood.........and you are right that it will be hard.

Let me throw this out there. I actually love my little bro, Swish...........yet, I know that some of the things I say will infuriate him and some of the things he says will upset me. How do we move beyond that? That is just one small example about what you are talking about. It won't be easy. It's much easier to place blame than it is to accept responsibility and find solutions. And most of us are lazy, right? It's real easy to say: "you're wrong; I'm right."

And the divide grows.

I ask myself what can I do to make things better? I have faced near-death experiences in recent years. I contemplated death. I asked myself if I gave more or took more? i asked myself what could I do if was to survive? Spread hate that furthers the divide? Or, try to get folks to unite? You know........when it is all said and done for each of us.....how do we want to be remembered. As one who preached hate and divisiveness or one who tried to promote unity and do good works in our society?

There is power in the people. But, that power has to come from the genesis of those who wish to invoke change and empower the people! Think about it.........you know how we have these hate groups on both sides? What if we had groups of people who were zealous in their pursuit of unity? Of compassion for others? A desire to evolve rather than stagnate in the same old insult game?

What say you, people?

1 Timothy chapter 6.

Just to be sure..........are you saying we should embrace slavery to our masters?

Welcome to the "Biden" Economy!

you right. I dumb.

It's time you take off the tinfoil hat... The shortage happened because the FDA stepped in and shut the Abbot plant down for several months. (In turn, Abot lost millions in revenue.) The shortage actually started in 2020 as consumers stockpiled due to COVID-19 lockdowns. Formula makers ramped up production but then cut back in 2021 as demand slowed.

Kraft does have competitors and there are 4 companies Mead Johnson Nutrition, Nestlé USA and Perrigo Co that produce the baby formula. Not 1.

The real reason there are only a handful of these companies.....

30+ years ago politicians passed law making states choose one manufacturer of infant formula to be covered by WIC to cut costs. 2/3 of formula purchased in the U.S. is bought through WIC... That left the companies that did exist to die on the view without government contracts. Now only three companies–Abbott, Gerber, and Mead Johnson—have WIC contracts.


The reality is that the politicians are messed up again and the root of the reason why we have a shortage.

But, you keep blaming corporate greed though.....

Beyond the obvious (one plant that produces majority of 1 critical product for US going offline)....

How did we get to the point where we looked at this situation and decided it was tenable (or possibly even a good idea)? I work in the Med Device industry, and a major sticking point (well before COVID) was confidence in your supply chain. Regular audits on your primary supplier and having a second source ready to go for critical components.

I also found the timeline regarding the plant kinda comical (at least as funny as this whole situation can get).

-Babies got sick and auditors descend on this manufacturing plant
-They find fault and shut down the plant
-but investigations into the baby infections show it wasn't directly due to the formula (IIRC)
-After the plant shutdown, the situation in the US goes straight to ish-show. The story on the plant is that previous audits failed to detect and/or address issues in the plant that may or may not lead to contamination
-FDA's response is to streamline the process for companies to sell formula in the US (lol). This is because one of the headlines is many formula makers standards overseas meet or exceed FDA's, but they are not allowed to sell here (probably because they don't dot a certain 'i' the way FDA wants them too... I'm paraphrasing here).


My interpretation of all that is when those babies got sick and the auditors showed up, they weren't going to leave until they bent Abbott over the table. I see this all the time... auditors act like they have to find something/anything whenever they visit your facility. With the situation being what it is, they couldn't go through that facility without any major findings. Many of FDAs processes (specifically ones related to initial submissions) are extremely archaic. It's not surprising to me in the least that there are equivalent/superior products available in the EU that can't gain FDA approval here in the US.

That seems wholly fair and balanced. But I think it's much more popular just to blame Biden, to hell with reality. Much like inflation - it's all Biden's fault regardless of the ROTW experiencing the same thing. Much like Covid was a political mechanism aimed solely to oust Trump, to hell with what is happening in the ROTW.

Kind of like blaming Putin. I was driving the other day and hit one of Putin's potholes.

You'll have to let me know who you were talking to that was blaming the conditions of your roads on Putin.

The point is blame can be placed anywhere. What I do know is the President and party in charge are leading a train wreck. It's off the rails.

Infants in the hospital because they were starving, gas sky high, food sky high, markets way down, tens of thousands of illegals ready to rush the border.

Everything these people touch goes to crap. Even the press secretary...at least Psaki was competent even if i disagreed with her take. This new woman..Jean Pierre is a joke. Have you listened to her? She's a simpleton.

Now I see the President all puffed up talking about adding Sweden and Finland. That's surely going to take us further away from a nuclear war.

I don't have a problem with them in NATO, but now isn't the time for that sort of talk.

And here's the real problem. Both Trump and Biden handed out "a bunch of free stuff". It's the cumulative effect from all of it. This situation causing all of this inflation didn't just miraculously happen over the past 16 months. It would be nice if people such as yourself would step up to the plate and own that.

It is very, very hard to watch, but hey -- at least she's black and gay!


This is sad... and what are the Cliff notes she keeps staring down at?? The notes aren't doing her any favors. What starts as b.s. ends as a word salad.

Who do we "blame"? Is this nobody's fault? Just tell the parents to pour some 2% and be happy... 'cuz $h*t happens?

This is what I don't get... Biden said he knew of this shortage early on, he tries to say things like that to impress us.

So a plant is shutdown that produces 40% of the baby formula in the country and remains closed long after it is absolved of any responsibility??

There's a shortage of one of the most vital food items in the world, on top of the rest of this crapshow, and leadership just wants to point fingers at others and say "oh well".

Pick any person working the counter at Starbucks and drop them into any of these roles from bottom to TOP -- the results would be better.

I think you may wish to look at a number even you floated around and I've seen often which is totally false. The plant that was shut down by Abbott does not produce 40% of baby formula. Last year in total Abbott manufactured just over 40% of all baby formula. Abbott has five facilities that manufacture baby formula, not one. So while the plant that was closed down is the largest of the five Abbott baby manufacturing facilities, it's still only one of the five that in total manufactured just over 40% of all baby formula in the U.S.

Last year Abbott accounted for 42% of the U.S. formula market, about 95% of which is produced domestically.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-ma...ration-abbott-tariffs-nestle-11652480538

And our other manufacturing facilities are running at full capacity as we continue to prioritize production of infant formula to help replenish the supply in the market.

Columbus, Ohio, is the headquarters for Abbott's U.S. nutrition business and is home to one of our five manufacturing facilities that produce infant formula for the U.S. market.

https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom...ott-update-on-powder-formula-recall.html

I edited my post to give sources for my information. I think we can both agree that the media often looks to report things more for shock value than accuracy. This is one such example.

My bad. Sounds like you already have though.. what percentage do they produce?

I was just parroting what I've heard over and over from everywhere... including CNN. (Seems that even the lib news is starting to turn on Biden)

I'm not sure of what percentage this manufacturing site produces. I do know it's the largest of their five facilities. And I certainly understand why you posted what you did. It wasn't meant to call you out. It was simply to show that what we're being told doesn't line up with the facts.

Right. I just hate when I do that. Unfortunately we live in a world where no morsel can be relied on as "fact" not matter how much it is repeated. Obviously it's not really the percentage that matters anyway, math didn't invent the real problem here.

It's like Y2K all over again!


Gas stations reprogramming pumps and displays to allow for double-digit pricing!

I also said it the wrong way, so thank you for pointing that out. The closed plant makes the majority of ABBOTT'S formula (Similac) that's sold here in the States (which is ~40% of the formula sold/consumed in the US).


When that went offline, it started a domino effect (Similac bought up/pulled off shelves --> people buying up other brands --> panic buying).

Hopefully we will get rid of that 0.9/10ths of a cent.

On another note, does anyone know how much money we've given to Ukraine in total? What would happen if we spent that money on the American people instead?

Yes because we all want Putin to just rout them... wth is wrong with people thinking this way. How about how much we spend in dark unaccounted for money in the MIC? Or the wasted money pumped into the stock market and corp bailouts over the last two decades? I could go on but the whole point you are trying to press is cra-cra ridiculous and TRUMPIAN af.

'Operation Fly Formula' to import first batch of baby formula amid shortage

The Department of Defense will be using its contracts with commercial air cargo to transport Nestlé S.A. formula from Switzerland to Indiana and to help speed up the import of infant formula amid a nationwide shortage, the White House said Thursday.

Driving the news: The effort, dubbed Operation Fly Formula, is the latest in a series of steps taken by the Biden administration to address a shortage that is causing panic among millions of parents and caregivers in the U.S.

The details: The Operation Fly Formula shipments will transport the equivalent of up to 1.5 million 8-ounce bottles of three formulas — Alfamino Infant, Alfamino Junior and Gerber Good Start Extensive HA — the White House said.

- These three products are hypoallergenic formulas for children with cow’s milk protein allergy and have been prioritized because they are in short supply in the United States because of the Abbott Sturgis plant closure.
- These shipments will include approximately 246 pallets.
- The DOD is actively working on the request to identify commercial aircraft for the shipments, the White House said.

President Biden on Wednesday invoked the Defense Production Act to address the baby formula shortage, requiring suppliers of formula manufacturers to fulfill orders from those companies before other customers, in an effort to eliminate production bottlenecks.

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/19/operation-fly-formula-import-baby-formula


BTW- The house passed two bills giving FDA funds to increase formula supplies, 192 GOPers voted against it, 12 for it. Obstructionist GOPers don't give a damn about these babies, they are using them for political gain. I wonder if it can clear the Senate... Biden enacted the defense production act, 100% necessary IMO.

I don't mind the money. I am just not sure the money we allocate is all going to what we think. I just saw that those Howitzers we just sent to Ukraine were just destroyed.

I never thought that was a good idea that was going to last very long..

Sounds horrible.

The reality is it is more funding to the FDA who claim they don't have enough inspectors.

Got to blame it on something when it was the "Putin" FDA who caused the problem in the first place. lol

This administration is a train wreck of epic proportions.

What else was in those bills?

More funding and even more inspectors are not going to fix what's wrong here. FDA is stuck probably a good 2 decades in the past in terms of its processes and stuff.

That is why some people voted no.

It was a bogus bill they knew would get no votes that the Dems could yell about how the repubs were against the children since they know they are the conductors on the train wreck.

What was in the bill that you say caused Republicans to vote no?

Some young adults consider moving back home with their parents amid rising rents
Americans in Washington, D.C., New York City weigh in on rising rent prices

https://www.foxnews.com/us/some-young-adults-consider-moving-back-home-parents-amid-rising-rents

Is a recession coming? Signs the economy is beginning to crack
Recessions are notoriously difficult to predict, but here are signs of a looming slowdown

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/recession-signs-inflation-rate-hikes

Just saying I disapprove of anything the government does 99.9999999999% of the time. It's not that hard to see their track record when they're 30 trillion dollars in debt.

I don't trust them to walk my dog or dust my coffee table. They're too stupid to accomplish even the simplest task.

I get upset when I see the government wasting money. They're good at spending other people's because it's not their own. I think aid should go to Ukraine, however it's an incredibly important point to look at the amount of aid being given to all countries. Personally I don't think they all need it when we have MASSIVE issues going on in our own country. We need to either stop giving aid to certain regions all together or greatly reduce the dollars and spend it elsewhere.

I care about the country I live in first and foremost which is the United States, not Africa, not Egypt, not Israel, not Iraq, not Ethiopia, etc.

I also have a distain for how easily a bill passes to send billions of dollars to another country but when the American people need some sort of meaningful change then the people in congress (not fit to be dog catchers) sit on their hands instead of working together and getting things done.

Nearly $100 billion stolen in pandemic relief funds, Secret Service says

Nearly $100 billion at minimum has been stolen from COVID-19 relief programs set up to help businesses and people who lost their jobs due to the pandemic, the U.S. Secret Service said Tuesday.

The estimate is based on Secret Service cases and data from the Labor Department and the Small Business Administration, said Roy Dotson, the agency’s national pandemic fraud recovery coordinator, in an interview. The Secret Service didn’t include COVID-19 fraud cases prosecuted by the Justice Department.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...andemic-relief-funds-secret-service-says

Your Government at work!

And this is coming out of Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/us/baby-formula-shortage-biden-flown-us-europe?yptr=yahoo


Baby formula shortage: Biden celebrates as 78,000 pounds of baby formula flown to US
President Biden celebrated the first flight of 'Operation Fly Formula' transporting 78,000 pounds to baby formula to Indianapolis


More than 70,000 pounds of baby formula was flown to Indianapolis, Indiana, Sunday from Europe.

"Folks, I’m excited to tell you that the first flight from Operation Fly Formula is loaded up with more than 70,000 pounds of infant formula and about to land in Indiana," President Biden tweeted Sunday. "Our team is working around the clock to get safe formula to everyone who needs it."

The formula, weighing 78,000 pounds, was being transported by military plane, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told reporters aboard Air Force One as President Joe Biden flew from South Korea to Japan.

The shipment was the first of several flights of formula approved by Biden that are headed to the U.S. from Europe. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack was in Indianapolis on Sunday to welcome the baby formula to the U.S.


BABY FORMULA FLIGHTS TO RELIEVE SHORTAGE TO ARRIVE THIS WEEKEND

The White House has said 132 pallets of Nestlé Health Science Alfamino Infant and Alfamino Junior formula was to leave Ramstein Air Base in Germany for the U.S. Another 114 pallets of Gerber Good Start Extensive HA formula were expected to arrive in the coming days.


ABBOTT SAYS IT WILL BE AT LEAST TWO MONTHS BEFORE BABY FORMULA FROM SHUTTERED PLANT HITS SHELVES

"Operation Fly Formula" comes after Biden invoked the Defense Production Act to speed up the production of baby formula after seeing shortages across the country.

The shortage hit the U.S. following supply chain issues related to the pandemic, which was compounded after top baby formula provider, Abbott Laboratories, closed a plant following an FDA probe and recalled some products.

We are turning in to a 3rd world nation who needs overseas shipments to feed our infants.

Let's dispense with rationale and facts and context and run screaming for the Hyperbole !! I've fixed your emotive response for you in order to better suit your pattern of posting.

🤣

Not sure if you are laughing with or at ....

Just the matter of fact way you went to the "hyperbole" card. Have you ever read anything OCD has posted... in his life? His posts alone make this place 35% hyperbole! Mostly laughing at the comic relief after catching up on a ton of posts, not trying to be an ass.

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/recession-fears-amid-rising-inflation-5873202/

With decades-high inflation and rising oil prices hitting consumer confidence, the recession question has become an increasingly pressing one, according to The Wall Street Journal. The head of the International Monetary Fund said Monday that the global economy was facing "the biggest test since the second world war." Yet, while the IMF suggests downgrades may be likely and some countries would enter recession, it does not "anticipate a global recession." Meanwhile, President Joe Biden is likely to attempt to allay recession fears by stressing low unemployment figures and a strong labor market.

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/another-warning-sign-for-the-economy-4794361/

Small businesses are losing confidence in the U.S. economy, with 57% bracing for economic conditions to worsen in the next year, according to a survey. The figure is up from 42% in April and rivals the all-time low recorded in April 2020. Entrepreneurs are wrestling with inflation, supply chain woes, a labor shortage and rising interest rates that are squeezing business. And the grim outlook may be another warning sign for the U.S. economy since small businesses often feel the effects of an economic downturn first, per The Wall Street Journal.

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/worlds-richest-nation-getting-poorer-5862826/

World's richest nation getting poorer


Tens of millions of Americans are beginning to grapple with the implications of a plummeting stock market, writes The Wall Street Journal. The S&P 500 just registered its seventh week of losses. Countless stocks, bonds and other investment assets are "getting hammered." As the losses mount for even casual investors, families are confronting the helpless feeling of watching investments intended for a car or house downpayment, a child's college tuition or their own retirement slowly sinking each day.

The bruising period has rendered financial industry prognosticators "as lost now as they were when the pandemic recession hit," reports Bloomberg. And JPMorgan Chase estimates at least $5 trillion of collective wealth among Americans has been lost so far this year, a figure that could hit $9 trillion by the conclusion of 2022.

Should have thought about all of this before putting that jackass Trump in office. And don't even pretend all the crap Biden is being bashed for and having to deal with is not directly correlated. Let's just stop lying about who did what, because Biden isn't stellar and Trump was a total idiot. I don't want either in the oval in 24. But I can't see a single up and comer on either side that inspires confidence going forward. We have trade issues, divides, inflation, shortages, etc. all related to pandemic fallout, Trump's lies, and Biden's slow response. Corporations price gouging, Putin's war in Ukraine, and the constant political infighting, right wing obstruction, Joe Fn Manchin, an overreaching inept dem admin, and everything is just worse than it could or should be. And I don't see anything getting better in the short term no matter who is running things, but I would still take Biden over Trump everytime. Biden over DeSantis/Abbott/Cruz too.

What the country needs right now IMO, is an independent POTUS and a congress that actually works and legislates with compromise between the factions. Pipe dream, I know.

IMO, the top reason for this formula crisis is tied to how the FDA goes about its business. That predates both Biden and Trump bigtime (unless you're talking about Biden's Senate career, but I doubt he had any leverage over FDA's policies/processes).

You can certainly wring your hands and stomp your fists about the babies who contracted that bacterial infection, and the subsequent discovery of the same type (but not specific strain) of bacteria at the Sturgis plant... but IMO the real crime here is FDA's bureaucratic policies that keep as-good-or-better formula from the EU off American shelves.

Well, I can agree with that. And would like to go a step further and say that also should include companies like Abbott, because they probably lobbied for that. Is there a way to fact check it that won't take a decade? idk. My response to peen was about his 3rd world comment, which I also agree that America is feeling more and more like.

naaa...there are a lot of dictatorships that wouldn't be called communist. They are crap countries too.

Yeah, I didn't get that one. There is a difference between communist countries and true dictatorships. Think power of the community vs individual power.

Doood. It was a jest. I could have sworn you have referred to all things Democrat Party as Communist for some time ... sure, not all things Dem, but you have bandied that word around A LOT. No?

J/c

The economy.

It's begun its tank. Gas prices. Rolling brown outs predicted. Food prices soaring. Cal is saying with the electric cars they probably can't supply the electricity for charging cars. Charging stations broke. Shortage of baby formula.

What's this admin doing, other than blaming Trump and Russia? nothing.

Housing market will bottom out soon. Many will be upside down, imo.

But, it's all good, right?

We get the "inflation is everywhere" crap.

Nah, I think it's too many lazy ass people that are living off the gov't.

Jobs everywhere. No one to fill them.

Preface: this is completely and 100% my opinion as someone who has worked in the med device field (FDA-regulated) for almost 15 years. I don't quite consider myself a regulatory expert, but I think I do know more than the average person.


Big companies definitely do benefit from overzealous regulatory bodies. Yes, the FDA is going to come down hard on Abbott, but IMO that's a small price to pay for the gigantic barriers to entry that these regulatory bodies create with layers of bureaucracy, vague regs, etc. But my view is that's more on the govt/FDA itself than it is companies influencing its inner workings. I dunno... maybe food and pharma are way different than med device, but I see these regulatory bodies exerting more and more oversight over products that many times they really don't understand. If the big corps really had that much influence, they'd be telling the FDA to buzz off, at least they pulled their head out of their butt. Instead, regulations are only getting more demanding/cumbersome.

The big regulatory bodies also don't talk to each other. Only now has the FDA and the EU begun to START TALKING ABOUT harmonizing their standards for med device.

I believe I already explained to you on the last page how there came to be only 3 companies who are making formula that is paid for by WIC and how WIC accounts for 2/3 of all purchases of baby formula.

WIC accounts for 2/3's of baby formula purchases? This country got trouble.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/19/baby-formula-shortage-federal-contracts-00033581

Looks like it's about 50%.

"About half of all babies born in the U.S. qualify for WIC, which serves low-income families. "


I would say we are in trouble yes - but my take might be different than yours. I think we're in trouble because half the babies born are born into what constitutes low-income households. To me that's trouble.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/29/17627134/income-inequality-chart

Interesting comparison of bottom 50% of income earners in the US vs EU.

I see that, but that is not a POOR thing, wic is available for families up to like 80K based on the number of children. Add that to so many younger people NOT getting married and having children, the mothers income is the qualifier. Based on the age range most people have kids in and those two things alone, I can see 2/3s. Last I looked it was pretty damn expensive too.

EDIT: It's not as easy as I thought but still a wide range. Based on this, I'm very skeptical of that 2/3s number. I wonder what percentage of kids go to college overall? Education could explain that 2/3s number somewhat, with non college kids earning faster but much less.

odh.ohio.gov/know-our-programs/women-infants-children/resources/ohio-wic-program-eligibility

We should definitely do away with the abortion option. We could easily get that number up around 75%. (Purple)

Probably not. Many of the people on assistance want more children because it brings more money.

Yep - every man and woman in America wants to live poor and below the poverty line just so long as it's free.

Well we know it’s not the group of people that use abortion as birth control. You know, that LARGE sect of people.

This is what happens when people care more about money than other people.

I think this is what happens when people buy into a 100% false narrative that people are content to live below the poverty line, poor, in crappy housing, with no disposable income often with a choice of buying food or paying rent or paying for medical needs. Are there people that abuse the system? Yes. Are there people that make poor choices? Yes. There is at every level of income. There are people and companies scamming the government for millions at the top end, their are tax cheats, and there are some taking advantage of welfare. . . . but this notion that people don't want to improve themselves or aren't prepared o work hard to get more is just a fallacy. I know damn well Ballpeen was happy to work for what he got in life - and the overwhelming, vast number of those below the poverty line are just like him in that regard.

Well somebody convinced them that it's their money paying for everything they hate. As if their tax dollars fund everything... meanwhile blue states tax dollars, fund red states like welfare, but they are the only workers in the world paying taxes according to them. smh.

Meanwhile the individual undocumented immigrants in the US contribute more to federal tax dollars to the Govt than Trump.

https://news.cornell.edu/media-rela...mmigrants-pay-more-taxes-president-trump

I guess if you have decided to look at it under a microscope that's the conclusion you might come to. If you ignore all of the latest things Biden has done to address the formula shortage that's another conclusion you can come to. How many more people are "living off the government" now than when Trump was president? We had huge federal unemployment checks being handed out. They're gone. We had Covid stimulus checks being handed out. They're gone. Both Biden and Trump handed out those things. So do you think more people are living off the government now than when over the past few years?

First let's look at the formula situation. I agree that some of the regulations we have in place are just crazy. I believe we should have already had in place agreements and testing that would give us the ability to import formula for our allied partners. But these same conditions have been around for a very long time. In response Biden began importing formula to help ease the shortage. He implemented the defense production act to get these manufacturers the ingredients needed to ramp up formula production.

In case you missed it, Biden doesn't control the world oil markets. Oil companies currently control thousands of oil leases in the U.S. they have refused to drill on all while complaining the problem is because they can't get additional leases. So you figure that one out.

And inflation? That's a global issue, not one isolated to the U.S. It sucks for all of us but we don't live in a bubble on this planet. Unless you're suggesting that biden controls global inflation?

Now if you consider huge spending over a long period of time taking a cumulative effect that's put us in this situation we certainly agree. The conditions that created this mess didn't ll happen in 17 months.

This is what happens when one allows their preconceived notions to dictate their thought process.

While the percentage of women living below the poverty line is relatively small, they account for almost half of all abortions.

Nearly half of women who have abortions live below the poverty level.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/n...-in-the-federal-poverty-level-2019-05-17

Well geez, there are 20 million of them here. Seems a little bizarre to compare that to one guy.

It is so thoughtful how you offer up all these explanations so people don’t dare blame the President for all the messes occurring on his watch. I think we would not hear the same thing if the president’s name was Donald.

Hell, they're still blaming Trump.

When Trump was president, what happened under his watch was blamed on him, and any good that happened was attributed to Obama.

But now, under Biden? Trump trump trump, and and Putin.

You actually would. Trump is simply a nasty human being. But not everything Trump did was bad. Not even Trump could crash an economy in 17 months. I notice one thing you refused to do. Address any of the points I made. But then that's what I expect from the likes of you and some others. That's the reason I rarely actually try to have a discussion with you or them.

Would you care to debate or discuss those points?

If I thought you were real I would. But I know you are a lefty phony who would gladly dump it all on trump. That is just the way you lefties roll. I know you like a book ( maybe a comic book).

it's sad that a college would report such a false narrative of information.

If you own a business, your income can be millions, have expenses that are millions, and lose money one year and make money the next etc etc

lastly, it's sad that an immigration attorney is writing this article vs someone who actually is an expert in tax laws.

Can't argue with the facts so shoot the messenger ! A tried and trusted formula. Well done.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-trump-tax-report-shows-aggressive-tax-/

https://time.com/5894381/tax-code-wealthy/

Her W2 tax form for that tax year shows she was paid $26,792.90 for her labor, with $413.14 withheld in federal income taxes. In other words, Diaz, then an undocumented immigrant from Costa Rica, contributed more to the federal government in 2011 than the $0 that Trump


https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...ctually-pay-infographic/?sh=3312cfc31de0

Out of that $11.64 billion total, undocumented immigrants pay $6.9 billion in sales and excise taxes, $3.6 billion in property taxes and about $1.1 billion in personal income taxes.

actually, it's not facts.

what people don't understand is business' get taxed 49 other ways besides an individual's income tax.

IE
payroll tax
state
local
unemployment
dividend
property
capital gains
social security
medicare
self employment

the list goes on...

I didn't say anything about businesses. I was talking factually about individual federal tax contributions.

Correct.

Many (most common) versions of business EIN are equal to a person's ssn and are one in the same.

Again, that person is being dishonest/misleading.

When Bush was president, Democrats launched an investigation into Bush controlling gas prices. Funny how when a Republican is president, they control all these things, but when a democrat is president they have no control over these things. More liberal double standards.


Well, last summer Biden was bragging about how his economic plan saved people 30 cents on a 4th of July barbeque. If his plan took effect that quickly, then what we are seeing now is also a result of Bidens plan. If Biden wants to take credit for the good, he also gets credit for the bad.

Biden has also been a part of the federal government for 40 years. He played a part in the events that created this mess. Instead, he gets a free pass on everything.

Democrats think more government is the solution to all of our problems. That is why Biden gets criticized. He is supposed to have the solution, instead he sticks his head in the sand. Not a good look for the government can fix everything agenda the left wants to push.

good lord. i swear if you listen to anyone for centuries, this country has been going to shi...since 1776.

we get it. we're a third world country, you don't recognize your country anymore, we're too dependent on foreign labor, obamacare is gonna have everyone in FEMA camps, gay marriage is gonna lead to the downfall of the country, blah blah blah.

J/C

We can post up all the facts and figures we want to support or put down anything we want.

The bottom line....are you better off today then you were a few years ago?

That is the only measure that counts. If no, then are we trending in the right direction or wrong direction?

yes.

Me too

This is what makes you look more like a Russian bot than an American.

Doesn’t mean it’s a bot. Watch the movie Gummo. A slice of Xenia life that’ll explain a lot of it’s postings.

Brought to you by the guy who whines incessantly about personal attacks.

Actually it was during that time period when I talked with DC and found out just how little presidents had control over gas prices. It's odd how you say, "yeah but the democrats launched an investigation" while not disagreeing with the point I made about the president having virtually no control over gas prices. Hmmmm... If you're trying to say politicians are stupid and love to point the finger and enrage voters I agree with you. But what does that have to do with what I posted?


Either you're saying that Biden alone is responsible for the situation our economy is in or not. In case you missed it, for a lot of the past 40 years Republicans have also controlled the senate and the house. During all of that time Biden's votes meant nothing. According to your logic McConnell and several Republicans also are responsible. You can either continue to act as though this is all the responsibility of a single party and administration or you can be honest and admit it's the cumulative effect over time by both parties.

You're smart enough to know that so at this juncture it's simply a question of if you're willing to be honest about it.


I don't consider Biden a strong president. He certainly would not have been my choice if given one. But let's not pretend we had a better one. Once again, that's the fault of both parties.

No, I'm not Vers. I'll repeat, I don't really give a damn what anyone posts, but don't think you will be treated well in return. I do find it hilarious how people come into a thread and only make a comment of a personal nature about a poster with zero comment about the context of the thread. But hey, that says more about you than it does me.

omg, I completely forgot about that flick. Spot on Portland!

I was pointing out that when Bush was president, the left was blaming him for gas prices. Now that a democrat is president, the president doesn't control gas prices. Which is it?



You're the one that keeps pointing out that things were in motion well before Biden became president in effort to give him a free pass. I'm simply pointing out that Biden has been in the federal government for 40 years and is therefore part of the problem that led to current events. I never said he was solely to blame. His spending spree in 2021 did contribute to the current mess. I criticize him most for his failure to handle the current problems. He spent most of 2021 denying inflation was even an issue. This is the perfect opportunity for Democrats to prove the government can solve problems.

Wasn't just the left on GWB's back over gas. I was full on Republican and many I knew blamed him. So nope, try again.

So you think when I said it's an accumulation of things that's happened over time I'm giving Biden a free pass? Not at all. He's as much a part of the problem as those who have come before him. He has done nothing to change the same pattern of behavior as those who proceeded him.

His spending spree has added to the problem. But let's not pretend that was the beginning of some spending spree. If you're going to point out spending sprees, you may wish to include that is also a continuance of something that was already happening before he became president. Or maybe you wish not to include that.

In actual numbers the deficit was 360 billion less in 2021 than it was in 2020.

U.S. 2021 fiscal year deficit below prior year's record, Treasury says

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...r-years-record-treasury-says-2021-10-22/

As I said, it's a problem that spans time. Our economy wasn't destroyed in 17 months. We can either deal with this in terms of facts or not.

Damn........I wonder why that would be? Oh, yeah, the economy crashed from covid in 2020, and has been rebounding since, until just recently.

Weird how taking everything into account works, isn't it?

Fuel prices hit a record high Tuesday, with a gallon of gas now costing $4.62 on average — a 52 percent increase from last year — according to AAA, after the European Union announced progress on a deal to ban Russian energy imports.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...ts-new-high-after-eu-cracks-down-russia/

This inflation thing is hitting me - hard. From the rising cost of gas, insurance, products, to the customers that are also dealing with the same.

Throw in food - shoot, eating out is pretty taboo for us now. Who does that hurt? Those that work at restaurants. Travel? Nope, not doing it. Who does that hurt?

It's bad, and getting worse.

Talking with my wife's uncle, a truck driver. It's nothing for him to spend over $2,000 a week - a WEEK - on fuel. That's over $8,000 a month - in FUEL. He's not worried cause he say's "it just gets passed on to the consumer." Think about that for a minute.

j/c:

Things really are getting bad. I don't know how many people realize what all of this is doing to our nation's small business owners. I have two small businesses. Really small, especially one of them. But money is tight and a lot of folks are having to do w/out or put things off. Working their butts off and paying more and more for goods as inflation soars. Meanwhile, we care so much for people's rights and taking care of others and they freeload more and more. In one of our businesses, I often go to the homes of regular guys like me. Everyone is worried about what's going on for those of us who work and always foot the bill. Meanwhile, I also call on commercial accounts and was able to secure two large apartment complexes as their vendor in our particular home improvement area. I have to enter the apartments to take measurements and give the management company quotes on the repairs they are requesting. Crazy amount of drug use. People not working. Laying around. Filthy. Babies w/unchanged diapers. I was at one apartment over a three week period of time and the damn smoke alarm was beeping the first time I went and remained beeping throughout. Lazy and disgusting.

Meanwhile, in our community, there is so much talk among people about just how many Help Wanted signs are out there. None of us have ever saw so many. I am not sure if that is the case in other communities where you guys live, but it's amazing. And sure enough, there are pan handlers at traffic lights right by multiple places that have Help Wanted signs on display.

This is not working!

I forgot to add this..........it's amazing how many small businesses are going out of business. So many local eating establishments that were in business for decades and decades are now closing their doors. It's a damn shame when honest people can't make an honest living.

For anyone saying how many help wanted jobs are available. I often think why don't they go take one of those jobs. Actually take 4.7 of them.

Who the heck is better off today than they were 3 years ago? ( Deshaun Watson?) ... frown

some of y'all aren't invested into REITs and it shows.

How are you libs enjoying the $6 a gallon gas prices?

Congrats!

I will not buy that Biden is solely to blame for any of this, but I will admit that he and his admin aren't helping. It's not that I think there is much they can do about worldwide inflation following two years of economic upheaval during the pandemic and topped off by a trio of Russian War, a living wage labor shortage, and decimated supply chains. Now we are looking at a resurgence of covid, fed rate hikes, and out of control costs in all areas of our lives. But this still isn't like the inflation that hit when Carter was POTUS. It's worse in some ways and better in others. There is no shortage of opportunities to earn, gas is high but readily available, and variety and choice are declining in all major grocery and retail stores.

That said, I have to share something that blew my mind over the weekend. While at the grocery store, wincing at the prices, I went to pick up a bottle of vanilla extract. The last bottle I bought was high quality and 16 ounces for about $4 to 6 dollars and it's been a year or two since. WOW. At Kroger, the cheapest bottle was around $28 for eight ounces, and Walmart had a bottle of Great Value brand 4 ounces for $11.89. I didn't know there was a vanilla bean shortage. But then I remembered Mexican vanilla located in the Mexican foods aisle. I saunter over to the section and low and behold, Molina Vanilla Blend, a very flavorful blend of pure extract tempered with a hint of french vanilla that I had used in the past. An 8-ounce bottle was a whopping buck and a half and it's leaps and bounds better tasting than the generic store brands of pure extract. It honestly felt like a win. I bought three bottles. So sad.

I dont know which meds you are on, but you should be careful.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=6157423&page=1

I'm only on aspirin for blood thinning. But thanks for the heads up. I've used it in the past and its good stuff. Also, I don't think they could import it if didn't meet basic safety requirements. Globalization changed a bunch of that and your article is 14 years old.

Haven't gone into REITS yet but my rentals are doing pretty damn good.... my 403b is in the friggin tank... have lost like 20% of that

But... I'm buying the dip.... picking up some stocks as they continue to tank...

Inflation is a bit ridiculous but had to see it coming... can't give the entire country free money for two years without ridiculous inflation... both sides of the isle are at fault... don't think Biden has helped with shutting down the pipeline and finding other ways to get fuel dependent.....

hoping that inflation slows, but don't expect it to anytime soon...