DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Giants 6 Browns players kneel during National Anthem

https://medium.com/@VetsForKaep/an-open-...ns-cda9bffb764c

Thing is...some people in here said Crowell should have been cut, kicked out of the league and some even went further with their criticisms. However, during the 1-15 season there was a long thread on Crowell's breakout season where many were praising him. There was also a lengthy thread about Crowell's tender and contract extension and worries if and when he would sign with us or maybe somebody else. Again, I am willing to bet some of his loudest critics last offseason were praising him and hoping he would stay a Cleveland Brown.

Point is...this freakout about players protesting will all be wasted energy and add up to nothing once we kick off against the Steelers. Especially if we win but, also once any of the 12 protesting players has a great game or season. If and when that happens I'm pretty sure the "get out of jail free" card will be handed out by some of today's critics.

Thing is...some people in here said Crowell should have been cut, kicked out of the league and some even went further with their criticisms. However, during the 1-15 season there was a long thread on Crowell's breakout season where many were praising him. There was also a lengthy thread about Crowell's tender and contract extension and worries if and when he would sign with us or maybe somebody else. Again, I am willing to bet some of his loudest critics last offseason were praising him and hoping he would stay a Cleveland Brown.

Point is...this freakout about players protesting will all be wasted energy and add up to nothing once we kick off against the Steelers. Especially if we win but, also once any of the 12 protesting players has a great game or season. If and when that happens I'm pretty sure the "get out of jail free" card will be handed out by some of today's critics.

No idea, most of the 30 or 40 seem to be from post 911 based on the article. Some say gulf war, others just say Veteran. IMHO, it doesn't matter, especially if they served in a war zone.

The big dumb jock stereotype was on it's deathbed. This sort of stunt has brought it back from the brink. What stupid, ignorant, condescending, arrogant, and self righteous bigots do we have playing for the Browns?

I guess some see what others choice to not look at, because the truth is too painful.

You talk as if some have condemned these young men for life. Nay, I just think it was an ill-advised action.

Veterans are an extension of our society, so we are allowed to have varied opinion's as is the next guy.

Curious as to why you asked if they are old enough to have been spit on?

A country where all men are created equal..

We have corrected the stain of slavery in this country, which was started by the British. We have corrected the stain of women's rights. We have corrected the stain of segregation, which was started by the democrats. We have corrected most of the wrongs in this country to achieve what the original founders intended.

There is a time and a place for everything.

On the job and on the clock is not a time afforded to the average Joe for a time to protest and then try to usurp God as if God has a fight in this game of fools.

This should not have happened. It’s a breakdown of team leadership, communication, discipline and focus.

Knowledgeable posters know either Hue Jackson and/or Jimmy Haslam are ultimately to blame.

quote above by FL:



The reason there's so many deeply disappointed Browns fans is that this incident arose due to the team culture.

There is a big problem with the Browns team culture.

Top professionals leave their feelings at the door.

There's a job to do.

Social statements do not belong on the field.

There's plenty a player can do on their own time to advance their beliefs. But that's hard work and cuts into their personal fun time.

This was highly unprofessional and ultimately the Browns management is to blame.

My opinion of Hue Jackson as an effective NFL coach went from a 6 out of 10, to a 2 out of 10 last night.

I am in an interracial marriage and I don't approve of disrespecting your country. Just curious, is she black? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. And I don't see what they are doing as disrespect. If they were spitting, burning, or stomping on the flag in a demeaning manner, then i'd understand. Kneeling though, not so much.

I believe in trying to change things by positive acts rather than disrespectful acts. Again, disrespectful from your point of view. 50 years ago, it was disrespectful for a black man to drink from a 'white' water fountain.
So much he could lose his life for it.

I believe in trying to bridge the divide rather than alienating the other side. Not sure how they are alienating anyone. To me its much more ignorance of not seeing that an actual life should mean more than an object.


I believe that multimillionaires calling the United States "oppressive" is a crock of crap! So those who have money can't make a plea for social justice?

Opportunities are there for all those who seek them and are willing to work for them. Like I said earlier, we had a black president win two elections. I voted for him both times. An "oppressive" country has a black president? Please........... Outside of the 'obamacare' talk, I never saw our country as united during his tenure as POTUS.

I wonder about the percentage of blacks who didn't vote for Obama in the two elections as opposed to the percentage of whites who didn't vote for the white candidate? Yet, all we hear is how whites are racists. LOL

I wonder who would be safer........a black man walking through a white community or a white man walking through a black community? I agree with you 100% here. Ignorance has no color. We all can do better.

I have fought for the rights and tried to help minorities most of my life, but the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Not sure what you mean here.

And most whites are afraid to speak up lest they be branded as "racist" by racists. Making stereotypical comments usually leads to being 'branded as racist'

Oh, and here is news for you. According to a recent poll, more whites are more tolerant of groups on the alt-right than they were before all the BS crap that was reported about Charlottlesville.

Your losing many of us who were actually on your side by your constant complaining, whining, violence, and finger pointing. If I'm losing people on my side due to wanting social equality and justice, they weren't on my side to begin with.

Good luck to you. Good luck to what?

No, she isn't black. She is part of an even smaller minority. She is a Mexican.

I mentioned the disrespect thing because many people have been quoted as saying it is disrespectful. That is nothing new. In fact, ratings went down in the NFL last year, and most pointed to the "kneeling" during the anthem as to why they tuned out. We've posted articles about it on this very board.




I think it is pretty lame given my background to compare kneeling during the anthem to not being allowed to drink from a water fountain. I have repeatedly been a champion of equal rights for all. I have started a foundation to help minorities. I have been asked to be a public speaker at minority events. I won Teacher of the Year in E. Cleveland at an Alternative School [yeah, they got kicked out of E. Cleveland public schools,] I rail against racists and bigots on here all the time. But, it's not one-sided. There are racists and bigots in all groups. I say we judge an individual based on their own merits.



Again, it's been well documented that people get upset when others don't respect the anthem. This country is not perfect, but no country is perfect. We have a lot of rights in this country..........hell, just having the right to kneel during an anthem is the polar opposite of the word "oppressive." This country is not "oppressive."



Of course they can. However, I would like to see them actually give some of that money and their time to help people of their community rather than just taking a knee.




Not sure of your point? I voted for him twice. Where did I say we weren't united? I think I was addressing that if this country was so "oppressive" against blacks, then a black man would have NEVER been elected.



Yes, we can..............and that includes myself.




I mean that I always fought for the rights of minorities because I didn't like how the majority picked on them. I always thought we should receive equal treatment and opportunities regardless of race, religious beliefs, or gender.

I think that it used to be that white society would find reasons to bash blacks. Terms were used to describe them. "Lazy." "Dumb." "Shiftless." I thought it was all BS. Now, I think that there is an emphasis on blaming whites for everything and giving blacks a pass.

I think both extremes are wrong. I believe in judging an individual based on his/her own merits. I do not like all-encompassing generalizations no matter which side they lean to.



Nah, I think it's a double standard nowadays. If a black person says something racist, it receives justification. If a white person says it.........they are a "racist." Sorry man, but it's shifted. Neither way is right. I am only hoping for a common ground, but am doubting that outcome more and more each passing week.



Not sure what you mean here. But, I look at who kills the most cops? Who kills the most blacks? Who isn't working and always has their hands out? And I wonder where the social inequality really lies?

I mentioned the disrespect thing because many people have been quoted as saying it is disrespectful. That is nothing new. In fact, ratings went down in the NFL last year, and most pointed to the "kneeling" during the anthem as to why they tuned out. We've posted articles about it on this very board.

I think it is pretty lame given my background to compare kneeling during the anthem to not being allowed to drink from a water fountain.

Again, it's been well documented that people get upset when others don't respect the anthem. This country is not perfect, but no country is perfect. We have a lot of rights in this country..........hell, just having the right to kneel during an anthem is the polar opposite of the word "oppressive." This country is not "oppressive."

Of course they can. However, I would like to see them actually give some of that money and their time to help people of their community rather than just taking a knee.

Opportunities are there for all those who seek them and are willing to work for them. Like I said earlier, we had a black president win two elections. I voted for him both times. An "oppressive" country has a black president? Please...........

Not sure of your point? I voted for him twice. Where did I say we weren't united? I think I was addressing that if this country was so "oppressive" against blacks, then a black man would have NEVER been elected.

Now, I think that there is an emphasis on blaming whites for everything and giving blacks a pass.

Nah, I think it's a double standard nowadays. If a black person says something racist, it receives justification. If a white person says it.........they are a "racist." Sorry man, but it's shifted. Neither way is right. I am only hoping for a common ground, but am doubting that outcome more and more each passing week.

Not sure what you mean here. But, I look at who kills the most cops? Who kills the most blacks? Who isn't working and always has their hands out? And I wonder where the social inequality really lies?

Starting a race war. What else?

I am in an interracial marriage and I don't approve of disrespecting your country.

I believe in trying to change things by positive acts rather than disrespectful acts.

I believe in trying to bridge the divide rather than alienating the other side.

I believe that multimillionaires calling the United States "oppressive" is a crock of crap!

Opportunities are there for all those who seek them and are willing to work for them. Like I said earlier, we had a black president win two elections. I voted for him both times. An "oppressive" country has a black president? Please...........

I wonder about the percentage of blacks who didn't vote for Obama in the two elections as opposed to the percentage of whites who didn't vote for the white candidate? Yet, all we hear is how whites are racists. LOL

I wonder who would be safer........a black man walking through a white community or a white man walking through a black community?

I have fought for the rights and tried to help minorities most of my life, but the pendulum has swung in the other direction.

And most whites are afraid to speak up lest they be branded as "racist" by racists.

Oh, and here is news for you. According to a recent poll, more whites are more tolerant of groups on the alt-right than they were before all the BS crap that was reported about Charlottlesville.

Your losing many of us who were actually on your side by your constant complaining, whining, violence, and finger pointing.

Good luck to you.

I wonder who would be safer........a black man walking through a white community or a white man walking through a black community?

According to what several black folks told me after I went walking through a bad section of downtown Detriot at night by myself it would be the black man who was safer. But I didn't feel unsafe at all.

Interesting.
I think safety is proportional to the threat the respective community perceives.

...How is this guy a Supreme Court Justice?

I guess not being born until 10 years after the last one is instituted is one way to "dodge the draft".

It's also supposed to be his job to uphold the Constitution which gives the players the right to do what they did.

Is it how I would have protested? No, but I liked it a lot better than most protests anymore. Not a bunch of anger and hate or one guy saying look at me.

The flag is a symbol, and as happens with symbols they mean different things to different people and that meaning can change. At the moment, some people equate the flag with Trump and issues that are occurring in our country. Saluting that strife doesn't make much sense. I don't feel that way, but if I tied those things together, I wouldn't be standing either.

Well the only problem with that is there hasn't been a draft since the early 70's and he probably voted for a real draft dodger to be president.

Other than that I see his point.

O’Neill notes he’s a Vietnam veteran whose family has a history of military service. He’s also the lone Democrat holding a statewide office in Ohio.

These players have all kinds of avenues they could pursue that actuallly would MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

You don't see none of these trashcans at inner city schools talking to kids trying to change their futures. You don't see any of them at your local soup kitchens helping poor people. You don't see them being part of non-profit groups advocating change on the local, state, and federal government levels.

j/c:

Meanwhile, our team was 1 and 15 last year, picked to finish in the cellar once again, and our guys are making headlines not for their play on the field, but for their protest.

Awesome.

Why does it matter?

I think I just addressed it in a response to Canada. Let me know if you need more. I will try to expound a bit.

If your intent is simply to mock my opinion, then by all means, fire away.