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My tablet went crazy lol


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Originally Posted By: dawg66
Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Originally Posted By: dawg66
Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
Originally Posted By: HarleyDawg51
We would have won if we had a kicker that could make a 39 yard FG...39 yards!!!!!!!


He needs replaced right away. I don't even care who, but I have more faith in just about anyone than Zane.

Man, least we didn't burn a 2nd rounder on him.


Dang, if you want him replaced because he missed a 39 yard FG we might as well not even have a Kicker cause they all miss once in a while.


Uhh, have you been paying attention? He's been missing them dude.


He's missed 3 FGs from 39 yds, 48 yds and 52 yds. He's also made 2 and he's a rookie Kicker, give the guy a chance. Heck all you guys saying we should have kept Parkey seem to forget that he missed 3 in one game for us last year. Every kicker misses once in a while and Cleveland stadium takes a bit to get used to the wind currents.


A 2nd rounder didn't even last through preseason, so it goes to show you position and how it must produce. Rookie or not.

It's just my opinion, but he don't belong kicking here anymore. His confidence is rattled it seems.

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Tulsa,
Again, that is why alot of rookies sit for awhile. We put him in to learn on the job. Is it painful, yes. But like I said in my example, Aikman and Manning made alot of the same mistakes.

Also, we forget that Hogan has been around for 2 years and he looks better than a rookie. ( as he should). There is that old adage that you let a rookie learn on the job and it is painful.

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Eve,
Then was Manning and Aikman ruined?? Look up their first years. If you look at the game, he made some throws were you see the kids potential. Then he will do something that will have you cussing at the TV.

We don't give him a consistent running game, and receivers that would be backups all over the league. SO yes, it does not look good but if we sit him, do you keep in on the bench the rest of the season?? That might ruin him more.

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He is broken. All his poise is gone and he seems to have no clue what he doing.

I previously blamed the WR.

But put Hogan in, and he throws to the WR just fine.

Its Kizer.

He needs to be coached up. That wont happen in a week.

You play to win the game.

So for now that means Hogan.


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I thought Njoku looked good.

I thought our wr’s Williams and Treggs looked good, give them both more practice time to learn the offense better and they might be good.

Duke needs more touches, he just makes plays.

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Eve,
He is not broken! Then is Goeff broken?? He looked just as bad last year. Another year and some coaching does wonders. And again, there have been QBs that had terrible first years that went on to have decent careers. Once you put the kid in, unless he looses his confidence, then you should ride it out.

Now me, I believe in sitting rookie QBs or atleast not starting them until after games.

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Kizer is not ready to start.

Njoku, is going to be a star.

They better sign a kicker this week, if not already.

Should have kicked the field goal and tied the game. Momentum was with us at that point. After they fell short, the defense gave up two huge plays, the momentum was lost.

The offense changed radically when Hogan came in. The routes were shorter and quicker, and it seemed that he can run the offense better and the offense was opened up somewhat more.

When Kizer was in the routes were noticeably longer, and many time all to the same side of the field. When Hogan was in, it was vastly different.

This game was lost on two INTs in the redzone, and a fumble, and topped off with two missed field goals. Kicker and QB get my blame.

Being at the game let me see things that I've been missing watching on TV.

Last edited by Steubenvillian; 10/08/17 09:15 PM.

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Originally Posted By: DogNDC
Tulsa,
Again, that is why alot of rookies sit for awhile. We put him in to learn on the job. Is it painful, yes. But like I said in my example, Aikman and Manning made alot of the same mistakes.

Also, we forget that Hogan has been around for 2 years and he looks better than a rookie. ( as he should). There is that old adage that you let a rookie learn on the job and it is painful.


I would ask.

How many reps did Hogan get with the 1's?

Last year or this year.

Kizer had those reps with the 1's. Preseason, training camp, an OTA's.

Yet Hogan keeps stepping in an scoring.


I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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dawgpound1,
Kizer probably gets the majority of the reps. No Doubt. But like Hogan said in his presser today, the game is slowing down for him because of being in the system last year.

Now if we looked at preseason, who stood out? Kizer. Yes, Kizer is having typical rookie problems but once you put him in, then we ride it out for awhile. Now if he keeps having problems like the first half, then the switch will have to be made.

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The team needs to win, above all. Hogan would seem to give them the better opportunity to do so. Hogan should be the starter.

I think the biggest reason the team seems to "click" more when he is in is his comfort level when playing from under center. He played in a pro-style offense at Stanford, and it shows.

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Another example of why Hue is questionable. Kick the field goal to tie it up. But no, listen to a bunch of drunk fans, waste a time out, change your mind and blow it. The guy sucks. 1-20 as our coach. I could do better than that.

Oh....Hogan is way better than Kizer. Kizer sucks.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Peen,
Hogan in system 2 years, Kizer Rookie. I'm looking at the KC/Hou game and we are not beating Hou. But look at Hou, they have a running game, good receivers and Oline that has been improving. The Browns don't have any of that.

Yes, Hue needs someone to throttle/watch his play calling but we need those 3 elements mentioned above.

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Perhaps the Browns best kicker of all-time Phil Dawson only made 8 of 12 FGs his first year with us, including missing twice from 38 yards. Yet he turned out pretty good.


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Stop it with the facts. Now is the time to be emotional and make rash decisions.


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Winning is overrated. We need to keep playing our worst players so they improve.


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Originally Posted By: dawg66
Perhaps the Browns best kicker of all-time Phil Dawson only made 8 of 12 FGs his first year with us, including missing twice from 38 yards. Yet he turned out pretty good.


Were they in a row? He's on a streak of missing one even cutting some slack on the long 50 yarder, which was way off from the start of it.

Zane sucks, comparing him to Phil is foolish IMO.

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GC.

My post game thought is: As long as Hue Jackson is the Head coach, the Browns will not win a single game.

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Why is it foolish, people wanted us to get rid of Phil after his first year.


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JC...

Speaking of field goals...Phil Dawson has missed a few easy ones this year, one again today..

Zane Gonzalez- a ton of people on this forum loved him and was mocking him in rounds 5 and 6 to us (some even late 4th round)...So I assumed it was a great pick up

As you know with kickers its all between the ears...Heck remember Blair Walsh...He is doing great in Seattle after his blunder in Minny...

Hoping Zane recovers and gets us some wins with that leg...hopefully

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But then you know what you have. A long string of losses clarifies many things. Then you know for sure what you have, namely a string of losses, a bad choice supported by bad choices and a bad situation made worse by demanding "to see what you have" and ignoring anything to the contrary.

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yeah, let's hope Zane straightens it out, but early returns aren't great. it'll be interesting to see if we bring in someone else this week.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I'm in Cali and didn't see the first half of the game.

was it windy? swirling winds? and he is not used to it yet?

or is he just missing in nice calm weather?

couldn't tell from the choppy stream I was watching on.


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passing---sorted by average yards per comp.

Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
1 Lac Edwards NYJ P 1 1 100.0 0.2 31 31.0 6.2 0 0 1 100.0 31 1 0 0 118.8

2 Johnny Hekker LA P 1 1 100.0 0.2 28 28.0 5.6 0 0 1 100.0 28 1 0 0 118.8

3 Sean Mannion LA QB 1 1 100.0 1.0 12 12.0 12.0 0 0 1 100.0 12 0 0 0 116.7

4 Sam Bradford MIN QB 27 32 84.4 32.0 346 10.8 346.0 3 0 14 43.8 44 8 1 1 143.0

5 Kevin Hogan CLE QB 26 38 68.4 12.7 377 9.9 125.7 3 2 14 36.8 49 7 2 2 104.8

6 Alex Smith KC QB 121 158 76.6 31.6 1,391 8.8 278.2 11 0 72 45.6 78T 14 3 17 125.8

7 Tom Brady NE QB 133 195 68.2 39.0 1,702 8.7 340.4 11 1 79 40.5 54 24 6 16 112.0

8 Cam Newton CAR QB 99 145 68.3 29.0 1,237 8.5 247.4 8 5 57 39.3 64 17 4 15 98.5

9 Kirk Cousins WAS QB 80 121 66.1 30.2 1,004 8.3 251.0 7 1 48 39.7 74 15 4 7 107.6

9 Jared Goff LA QB 100 164 61.0 32.8 1,360 8.3 272.0 7 3 62 37.8 69 24 3 6 94.1

11 Matt Ryan ATL QB 88 135 65.2 33.8 1,109 8.2 277.2 5 5 52 38.5 88T 12 3 8 87.5

12 Jacoby Brissett IND QB 77 127 60.6 25.4 997 7.9 199.4 2 3 41 32.3 63 13 4 14 80.7

13 Jameis Winston TB QB 94 154 61.0 38.5 1,198 7.8 299.5 7 3 63 40.9 58T 12 2 7 92.4

14 Andy Dalton CIN QB 104 159 65.4 31.8 1,220 7.7 244.0 7 6 55 34.6 77T 14 4 15 87.5

14 Carson Wentz PHI QB 110 177 62.1 35.4 1,362 7.7 272.4 10 3 66 37.3 72T 14 4 13 97.7

16 Case Keenum MIN QB 61 100 61.0 33.3 755 7.6 251.7 3 0 33 33.0 59T 11 3 4 94.4

17 Drew Brees NO QB 105 152 69.1 38.0 1,135 7.5 283.8 8 0 57 37.5 52 16 3 4 108.3

18 Deshaun Watson HOU QB 90 145 62.1 29.0 1,072 7.4 214.4 12 4 57 39.3 48T 15 2 13 100.7

19 Marcus Mariota TEN QB 66 110 60.0 27.5 792 7.2 198.0 3 3 39 35.5 55T 11 2 2 79.8

19 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 126 189 66.7 37.8 1,367 7.2 273.4 13 3 71 37.6 72 17 4 19 104.1

21 Scott Tolzien IND QB 9 18 50.0 18.0 128 7.1 128.0 0 2 5 27.8 32 4 0 4 33.8

22 Philip Rivers LAC QB 116 194 59.8 38.8 1,365 7.0 273.0 9 5 68 35.1 75T 14 4 6 86.0

22 Trevor Siemian DEN QB 79 126 62.7 31.5 888 7.0 222.0 7 4 46 36.5 44 14 1 13 89.0

24 Derek Carr OAK QB 74 109 67.9 27.2 753 6.9 188.2 7 2 37 33.9 64T 10 1 8 101.2

24 Josh McCown NYJ QB 105 147 71.4 29.4 1,020 6.9 204.0 5 4 49 33.3 69T 12 2 15 90.5

24 Carson Palmer ARI QB 136 227 59.9 45.4 1,573 6.9 314.6 6 5 74 32.6 46 22 2 19 80.5

24 Russell Wilson SEA QB 111 178 62.4 35.6 1,222 6.9 244.4 8 3 60 33.7 46 15 2 13 90.6

28 Dak Prescott DAL QB 112 179 62.6 35.8 1,192 6.7 238.4 11 4 58 32.4 53 13 2 7 93.1

28 Tyrod Taylor BUF QB 85 136 62.5 27.2 910 6.7 182.0 6 2 48 35.3 47 12 2 18 90.6

30 Eli Manning NYG QB 137 202 67.8 40.4 1,338 6.6 267.6 8 5 64 31.7 77T 9 3 13 89.1

31 Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 120 195 61.5 39.0 1,269 6.5 253.8 6 7 62 31.8 51 13 3 9 75.8

31 Matthew Stafford DET QB 111 173 64.2 34.6 1,116 6.5 223.2 9 1 62 35.8 45T 11 1 18 97.4

33 Brian Hoyer SF QB 115 194 59.3 38.8 1,211 6.2 242.2 4 4 61 31.4 59 12 3 15 75.8

33 EJ Manuel OAK QB 24 43 55.8 21.5 265 6.2 132.5 1 1 13 30.2 41T 4 1 4 72.3

35 Blake Bortles JAX QB 74 135 54.8 27.0 827 6.1 165.4 7 4 47 34.8 35 7 0 5 78.2

36 Mike Glennon CHI QB 93 140 66.4 35.0 833 6.0 208.2 4 5 42 30.0 29 4 0 8 76.9

37 Joe Flacco BAL QB 92 144 63.9 28.8 823 5.7 164.6 4 6 44 30.6 54 6 3 9 71.0

38 Jay Cutler MIA QB 82 131 62.6 32.8 706 5.4 176.5 3 3 39 29.8 31 6 0 10 74.8

38 DeShone Kizer CLE QB 81 159 50.9 31.8 851 5.4 170.2 3 9 41 25.8 38 15 0 12 49.5

40 Tom Savage HOU QB 7 13 53.8 6.5 62 4.8 31.0 0 0 5 38.5 15 0 0 7 66.8

41 Ryan Mallett BAL QB 6 9 66.7 9.0 36 4.0 36.0 1 0 3 33.3 8 0 0 0 111.3

42 Matt Cassel TEN QB 25 42 59.5 21.0 162 3.9 81.0 1 2 10 23.8 17 0 0 8 55.9

43 Derek Anderson CAR QB 2 7 28.6 7.0 17 2.4 17.0 0 0 1 14.3 9 0 0 0 39.6

44 Ryan Fitzpatrick TB QB 0 1 0.0 1.0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 MarQueis Gray MIA TE 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 Matt Haack MIA P 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 0.0

44 Chad Henne JAX QB 0 2 0.0 2.0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 Brett Hundley GB QB 1 1 100.0 1.0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 79.2

44 Jarvis Landry MIA WR 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 Tanner McEvoy SEA WR 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 0.0


would line em up, but lazy at the moment.

for kicks and giggles on NFL.com stats. got the lineup ordered by average yards per throw.

the average yards per throw are far different from Hogan and Kizer, so is the QB rtg. 104.8 to 49.5

kinda cool to see which QB's are throwing the farthest for fantasy purposes.

Last edited by dawgpound101; 10/09/17 05:09 AM.

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Originally Posted By: dawgpound101
I'm in Cali and didn't see the first half of the game.

was it windy? swirling winds? and he is not used to it yet?

or is he just missing in nice calm weather?

couldn't tell from the choppy stream I was watching on.

Not very windy at all IIRC. In Cleveland terms it was a nice day.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: dawgpound101
I'm in Cali and didn't see the first half of the game.

was it windy? swirling winds? and he is not used to it yet?

or is he just missing in nice calm weather?

couldn't tell from the choppy stream I was watching on.

Not very windy at all IIRC. In Cleveland terms it was a nice day.


thanks for the reply. not sure how he beat out Parkey.


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Originally Posted By: dawgpound101
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: dawgpound101
I'm in Cali and didn't see the first half of the game.

was it windy? swirling winds? and he is not used to it yet?

or is he just missing in nice calm weather?

couldn't tell from the choppy stream I was watching on.

Not very windy at all IIRC. In Cleveland terms it was a nice day.


thanks for the reply. not sure how he beat out Parkey.


Seems to be a reoccuring theme, affirmation of draft stock over giving us our best chance to win.


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-Cut Gonzalez
-Start Hogan over Kizer
-Make Duke the primary back over stumbling Crowell
-Throw the ball to Njoku as much as possible

Lets's start there and see where things go.

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Originally Posted By: THROW LONG
GC.

My post game thought is: As long as Hue Jackson is the Head coach, the Browns will not win a single game.


Well...he has won a single game. wink

Stop trading down though! Last year it was Wentz and this year it's Watson. I'm sick of the front office placing a premium on draft picks that they ultimately miss on.

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Originally Posted By: dawgpound101
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: dawgpound101
I'm in Cali and didn't see the first half of the game.

was it windy? swirling winds? and he is not used to it yet?

or is he just missing in nice calm weather?

couldn't tell from the choppy stream I was watching on.

Not very windy at all IIRC. In Cleveland terms it was a nice day.


thanks for the reply. not sure how he beat out Parkey.
Yeah, it seems like they just went with the guy they drafted.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The team is a mess. Blowing it up isn't the answer. Canning someone will most likely only hurt what speck of confidence they have left. Finding a replacement that is any better at this point is highly unlikely. After the season, perhaps, but who is going to want to show up in the midst of this? Give them one more season, while getting them some WR and DB help.

I'm fine with the play calling. The execution needs to get better. Execution will only get better with more reps together.

I don't think Hogan was all that much better than Kizer. The guys just happened to make the difficult catches instead of deflecting them straight to defenders. Yes, Kizer had the bad looking pick in the redzone, but he's used to practicing there against our slow corners (and safeties, processing speed in particular). I wonder if there was supposed to be a pick to cut out that defender. I'm not sure why they don't give Kizer easy reads in the redzone like jumpballs to Njoku.

Hogan's numbers were solid, but they were mostly in garbage time against soft D. The closest defender may have been 15 yards downfield when Duke caught his TD. Hogan's had clearer lanes and more time to escape on scrambles/extended plays. Kizer has his issues, no doubt, but the defense is throwing more at him and the rest of the team is letting him down.

It's too soon to give up on Gonzalez. He had a bad game. It's been known to happen. See if he bounces back.

Taylor seems to have regressed to the level of play that got him shipped out of Miami. I don't know if he's pressing (may be part of the whole team's problem) or what.

Njoku showed up this week. Hopefully, we can continue to get him more involved.

Hue could probably benefit from an Assistant HC who focuses more on the clock or maybe just a number cruncher to advise him on the sideline. Maybe take a more formulaic approach and have the thinking laid out for most situations in advance. I don't know.

We're so close, and yet, so very far at the same time. A centimeter and Crow's in the endzone instead of stumbling after a fumble.

We need to find a way to get the snowballs rolling in a positive direction instead of the negative one they tend to head now.

Watching the team is rough right now. We're young and missing pretty important pieces. They do need to get better. We are a somewhat fundamentally flawed team, but we do have some nice pieces here. Can we stay together through the growing pains? Frustration has definitely set in in the fan base, how deeply has it set in the team/Haslams?


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Very disappointed.. Knocked on the door twice in the Redzone and ended up losing the ball both times. And geez, what's with this Zane Gonzalez kid?

I don't have an issue with the 50+ yard miss, but come on,,,,,

We were in a position to win this game by 2 TD's and a Field Goal and we didn't.


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This thread should be combined with the gun control thread.. the Browns should not be allowed to buy all of the ammunition they use to shoot themselves in the foot.

Won both sides of the ball for almost the entire 60 minutes and still lose..


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Originally Posted By: HarleyDawg51
We would have won if we had a kicker that could make a 39 yard FG...39 yards!!!!!!!


Why is everyone ignoring the two turnovers inside the 10? Not a factor in the loss?


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted By: HarleyDawg51
We would have won if we had a kicker that could make a 39 yard FG...39 yards!!!!!!!


Why is everyone ignoring the two turnovers inside the 10? Not a factor in the loss?


Haha! Yeah, exactly!

Gonzalez isn't going anywhere. He was kept on the team because of his leg, not his price tag.

I'm almost tired (no, you know what, I am TIRED) of all the front office nay sayers using price tag as an excuse why we get rid of players. Value and performance are why we cut and move on from players.

We are ten times more talented today than when these guys came in here less than two years ago. You can't keep blaming lack of talent. We have that, but yes, not enough to win a super bowl, but we are definitely a more talented group.

Lack of talent is the wrong excuse. If you want to blame the lack of something, go with experience. I think if anything where the front office goofed was the need for experience. Most of our young players do not have a mentor. There is no one to teach them what they know, our youngsters have to figure it out on their own. Some are going to be better at that than others.

I keep blaming Hue, which he is definitely at fault, but I do give him props for at least trying to win. Hue is so desperate to win he's almost in panic mode. Our defense has been awesome all game. We tie the game at 10-10, have the defense make a stop and then Hogan gets us in FG range, we win 13-10. Hue needs to coach as if he were coaching a 4-0 team. A 4-0 team wouldn't go for it on 4th and 2 with a chip shot FG only being down 3 points. That is absolutely ludicrous.

I'm sorry to all the "front office is to blame" people, but this loss is solely on Hue and Hue alone. He had a chance to put us in a position to win and he blew it. If he kicks the FG and then the defense struggles to keep McCown and the jets out of the endzone, then you can chalk it up to growing pains.

No. Hue is to blame for this loss. Point blank.


Last edited by devicedawg; 10/09/17 09:24 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Parkey has very limited range as a field goal kicker.


Parkey has already made a 54 yard FG this year.

In his career Parkey has never missed a FG over 50 yards. He is 6 for 6.

Link


How is he over 60? ... 50's for chumps .... *L*




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Hue's play-calling and decision-making yesterday sure looked like that of a coach who believes he has plenty of talent to do what he wants to do.

The only thing worse than NOT taking the FG there is a combo of burning yet-another 2nd half timeout AND the play call he came up with during that timeout.

Hue wasn't thinking about using 4 downs until the heat of the moment. He let emotion make his decision. If he were certain about the use of four downs at that point, run the dang ball on 3rd AND 4th downs right there. His reason/excuse for going for it there was pathetic...his same reasoning was EXACTLY why he should have taken the 3 points.

That loss is on Hue. He let the team down. We aren't good enough to overcome poor execution, penalties, turnovers...and poor decisions by the head coach.

And NO...I do not want him fired or to even think about such a thing...but he was awful yesterday.

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another game, another loss that if I hadn't seen play out countless times before, I wouldn't believe that it was possible.

Overall, I felt the Browns dominated that game. Except for the turnovers (duh) and the TD drive after the turnover on downs, we controlled the game.

To not be up by at least 10 points at half was unacceptable. Many a reason for this, but Hue is at the top of the blame game.

-Why are we calling an option???????? Horrible play call!!!!
-Going for it at the 4 yard line. Wasting a time out prior to probably the worst play call over the last 2 years. Horrible!!!!

Hue needs an OC if he wants to stay. no doubt about it. The man has too much on his plate and trying to call an offense on game day undoubtedly affects other aspects of his coaching responsibilities.

Those that are comparing Kizer to Aikman, Eli, Wentz or anyone else that has not sat, I will point out that each of those QB's were 2 years older than Kizer is at the time they were drafted. The only QB whose age is comparable to that of Kizer is Jared Goff. And he did not start right away for a bad team. Watson is only a year older, but he played quite a few marquee games prior to being drafted and seemed much more consistent than Kizer in college.

I will state it again, I believe Kizer has potential to be the man for the Browns, he is just not ready yet. I will also say that Hogan looks good and might be better than many on this board including myself gave him credit for.

I am not calling for a regime change because I feel it will not get the results we want. I am calling for adjustments. This team is close to being a solid team. we have some pieces, we just need to improve in some key areas.
WR and DB's are at the top of the list. Kicker added itself to the list this week.

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j/c

Ricardo Louis looked like a legit NFL WR yesterday...let's see if he can string 'em together.

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
j/c

Ricardo Louis looked like a legit NFL WR yesterday...let's see if he can string 'em together.


All of our recievers looked better in the second half.


Tackles are tackles.
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