DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Coordinator

Well, one could say Hue's performance is the entire reason there's an OC thread, couldn't one?

You might want to take a break Vers.

I'm not trying to start anything here.

Just a friendly suggestion.

One could say that. But, one would be wrong.

If you think going into a season w/a qb room that has never one won single game is a good thing....then God help you.

Sashi is the one who blew the roster up. Not Hue. He knew that we were going to lose a ton of games. Most were okay w/that plan. But damn man.........when it played out.....the narrative changed and all of sudden it was about Hue being 1 and 31. LOL

Please.........

I think sentence above shows the way many media/fans think. They assume, wrongly, that OC is synonymous with 'playcaller' and its not. Sure on some teams the OC/DC is the playcaller on that respective side of the ball but on other teams the HC is the playcaller on offense/defense.





The same way you became an up and comer at your current position. By doing your job well. Get the area you coach to perform well. That's the bottom line. Did you know some successful NFL coaches, heck some HC have never called plays?

The OC isn't merely a 'playcaller'. I think that misconception is the core of the current OC argument. Its funny though because I remember during the offseason the discussion that Hue needed an OC yet it was dismissed as unnecessary/unimportant and know everyone wants an OC except they don't actually want an OC they just want someone else to call the plays.

I think a few people get that and still don't want Hue calling plays Ed.

Was Hue a bad play caller in Cinci?

A full offensive staff assign each coach a segment of the offense to coach and oversea. For example:

QB coach:nickel pass, blitz pick-up
WR coach: red zone passes
RB coach: Gen run, SY-GL-RZ run, 4 minute,
TE coach: Reports, self scout, opp analysis,
OL coach: Gen run, SY-GL-RZ run, 4 minute

OC: 3rd down passing

OC puts it all together, runs the practices when the whole offense is together. Makes sure the different pieces of the puzzle fit together as a cohesive unit. Studies opponent film and works with the HC to develops a and delegates the strategy to the position coaches. Analyzes all game situations, game plan outline, routine sheets, scripts and sometimes playcalling on gameday.

You are asking the wrong guy. I don't mind Hue calling plays as long as his game management doesn't continue to suffer.

I think we are saying the same thing but from different angles. Some people don't want Hue calling plays and don't really give a rip about whether or not there's an OC brought on. They're only paying lip service to the importance of bringing on an OC because to them OC = playcaller.

Therefore they view anything short of Hue giving up playcalling as a 'sham' hire.

I think there are even a couple more groups.

Those that want an OC and don't care if he calls plays if there is an improvement on offense.

Those that worry of a sham hire/sacrificial lamb for when things go wrong again.

Those that want an OC that runs a different offense.

Those that want Hue's replacement in place for when he gets fired.

There's probably a few more that I haven't thought of.

Nicely put together, ed. Sounds like the OC is more qualified to call the plays than the HC...

Please elaborate.

This whole idea that Hue Jackson somehow was a "hot coordinator" and he was a good play caller in Cincy is simply not true.

in 2015 Cincy had a mediocre 15th ranked offense. They ranked 15th passing, 13th rushing, and 15th overall.

in 2014 they ranked 6th in rushing, 21st in passing(behind the Browns)and again 15th overall

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?a...e&Submit=Go

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?a...e&Submit=Go

Hue Jackson was nothing but a medicore coordinator and barely an average playcaller at best(that was with good talent) he barely was an average play caller in Cincy with far better talent,Even the Browns out gained him in passing in 2014...Hue Jackson is a joke.

Keeping Hue Jackson is NOT what's best for the Cleveland Browns moving forward. the Detriot Lion's were smart enough to fire the morons that led them to 0-16, but it seems like Browns obviously are not that smart.

You are what your record says you are - Bill Parcells.

Hue Jackson is a 9-39 .188 career head coach, he is 1-31 as the Browns Head Coach with a .031 ....yes your not reading that win percentage wrong. .188 for his career and .031 in Cleveland LOL!

The Browns in the past have fired head coaches too son, but with Hue Jackson this is the ONE INSTANCE firing him is the RIGHT COURSE. the guy has no clue what he is doing.

Against the Titans, The Titans had 4th and one at our own 36 and the Titans committed a personal foul and Hue Jackson declined the damn penalty that would have made it 3rd and 16 and backed them out of FG range. the Titans proceed to kick a FG and we lost the game 9-12...Hue Jackon cost us the damn game....Gregg Williams cost us the game against Detroit with the stupid 2 deep corners that allowed Stafford to throw a pitch and catch uncontested for a TD...absolutely horrible coaching.

Jackson's penchant for throwing the football with an inexpereined rookie Qb cost us about 4 wins. We could have won 5 games atleast with even an average NFL head coach...Shurmur or Mangini wins 5 games with the Browns roster we had in 2016....

Listerally anyone here on these forums could have coached the Browns to a 1-31 record...hell i'd say almost anyone on here would have at least won one game this year...When you go winless, you don't belong in the NFL...any poster here could have avoided a winless season....

The NY Jets were said to be the worst team in the NFL talent wise had a worse roster then us, and Bowles still coaxed 5 wins out of that trash roster and had then competitive...because unlike Hue Jackson...Bowles can coach his way out of a paper bag..not other NFL head coach declines that penalty against the Titans like hue Jackson did.

the Browns need to fire him, and stop waiting around...he won't last the season enxt year if we keep him because the guy has no clue what he is doing, the fact he went winless proves that...only the Browns would keep a 1-31 coach with an 0-16 record....unreal..

Sure but those are all still sub-division of the 2 main groups.
Hue is the playcaller vs Hue isn't the playcaller.

This is a false statement.

I actually could care less whether Hue is fired or not, whether he calls his own plays or not. Like Diam, I have zero respect for the man for reasons scattered about these many threads...

lol !
A lot of the problems will be solved when a QB establishes himself. Sean McDermott calls the plays in Buffalo but has an associate head coach who helps with the in-game stuff such as when to throw the red flag. Maybe something similar to that could work in Cleveland.

Iif we start 0-5 next season hue will be gone

LOL...........yet, you backed Farmer, Sashi, and Holmgren.

Go root for Buffalo!

Lol, Ty. I can't claim it though, its pretty much my recall straight from Bill Walsh, Finding the Winning Edge.

You missed the discussion then. It wasn't about whether Hue should be fired at all. Was a discussion about whether or not people in this thread actually want and understand the role of an OC or whether people just don't Hue calling plays.

No, I got it, ed. Simply wanted to post a generic response. Whether Hue takes on (or is given) an OC, doesn't matter to me. I am not a fan of some of his play calling, specifically lack of usage of TE's/middle of the field. I do believe that an OC would benefit him by reducing his workload and allowing him to focus on strategic rather than tactical issues...

Sure...from Bill Walsh, Finding the Winning Edge:


The individual in charge of the offensive staff is the offensive coordinator. His most critical responsibility is to develop and implement the offensive game plan.

By definition, one of the key duties of the offensive coordinator is to do just that: coordinate. When the team has a diverse offensive staff, it would be fool hardy not to fully utilize the knowledge and capabilities of the these staff members by excluding them from the process of creating and implementing the offensive gameplan.

The feedback and ideas that can be provided by the offensive staff should be encouraged and given a platform. It is then the job of the offensive coordinator to blend and focus everyone's input into a single, cohesive game plan that adheres to the basic parameters of the team's offensive system.

The process of developing a gameplan for a particular opponent is initiated by the offensive coordinator, who breaksdown the specific responsibilities of each coach for helping prepare that gameplan. He identifies what he wants each coach to focus on when the assistant coach analyses the opponent for the upcoming week.

With the limited time that a staff has to prepare for an opponent in any given week (usually a little more then a day), the offensive coordinator simply does not have enough time to personally address in an adequate manner all of the areas that have to be accounted for in a game with the necessary attention to detail.

Accordingly, the various key elements that must be accounted for in an offensive gameplan are assigned to the offensive position coaches who are able to devout more time to identifying, analyzing and developing suggestions for attacking an opponents defensive tendencies.

On a few areas, several coaches may need to work together to develop a plan for handling a particular element of the offense.

The key for the offensive coordinator is to establish specific priorities about what information he needs, when he needs it, when it should be introduced into the decision making process, and most importantly, when he has enough. Accordingly, one of the most basic questions the offensive coordinator should ask with regard to the need for a specific report is, "Will this information affect the play selection?"

The next step in the process of developing and implementing the offensive gameplan for a particular opponent involves having the offensive staff address the issues required to prepare the meetings and practices with the players during which the gameplan will be explained and put into effect. Even the most brilliant gameplan is relatively useless unless it can be readily learned and executed by the team's players.

It continues on for another 2 pages with 3 charts for duties.
The long and short of it is that Hue has too much on his plate. Looking at it from a even simpler view of man hours the staff was hurting in man hours put in by the offensive staff by not having an OC.

The bottom line is this team has been bad now for awhile, we’re we told it would be? Yes. Did we expect, 1-31 bad? Well, I didn’t. I suspect no one else did. People have a right to vent and blame whoever they want to blame. Some blame Sashi, some blame Hue, some blame Haslam, some blame all or a combination of them. But as fans we have the right to see it however we want, right, wrong or indifferent.

I blame Haslam for getting involved to much, I blame Sashi for the talent level to an extent, I also blame Sashi for not giving Hue more resources to help. But I also blame Hue for what we saw on the field each week, it wasn’t very good. I blame Hue for not bringing Kizer along the way he needed to. Regardless of what Kizer is, bum, or legit QB prospect he was not handled right. Not the way a rookie QB with as many short comings as he had should have been handled.

We all are entitled to our opinions, again, right, wrong or indifferent. We all an vent however we wish.

I understand the OC is way more than a playcaller. That just happens on Sunday. The week leading up to the game he is going over the advanced scouting reports from his advance scouts, some who went to the opponents game the week before, and some who look at flim to identify trends, etc.

He is largely responsible for setting the game plan.

I understand that card Hue holds isn't the same week to week. The OC sets that. Setting plays for down and distance, game situation, etc. That all takes time. The OC communicates this to his players...who we might attack, what to look for, and these are the special plays we might run, then incorporates those plays in to practice so we don't throw the players for a loop by calling a play or two we haven't worked on but a couple of times back training camp.

Is that sort of what you are talking about?

Yep, my last couple posts explain the basic roles and duties of an offensive coordinator as described by one of the greatest coaches of all time. Bill Walsh,

This is good stuff! Nice to see it laid out in a readable manner. Accepting this as 'common practice', what is the likelihood that Hue simply has taken on too much workload?

I thought not having an offensive coordinator was a mistake from the outset of the announcement of the coaching staff in the offseason.

I think undoubtedly Hue had too much on his plate being HC and OC.

If coaching in the NFL is anything its time consuming. Coaching the youngest team in the league is going to take even more coaching/time. But to attempt it without an offensive coordinator imho had a trickle down effect that had a negative effect on everything.

Hue wasn't as good of HC as he is capable of being and he wasn't even as good of a coordinator as he's been in the past.

Agreed, ed. Hard to dispute that...

You may be over thinking it.

In what way? I'm not sure where you're going with this...

Twitter . . .

Keith Britton
@KeithBritton86

.@McClain_on_NFL tells @BullandFox #Browns OC candidate Sean Ryan (#Texans QB coach) would not accept another role if he was not given ability to call plays. Good chance he stays in HOU w/ likelihood of multiple offers after next season

12:26 PM - 3 Jan 2018

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...nator-113200262

Former Cincinnati Bengals offensive coordinator Ken Zampese is being interviewed for an assistant position and not offensive coordinator according to Cleveland.com.

The coach spent a few days at Cleveland Browns practice last week according to ESPN Cleveland's Tony Grossi.

Zampese was a part of Marvin Lewis' original coaching staff and had been there until he was fired earlier this season. Prior to joining the Bengals, he had served in various roles with the St. Louis Rams, Philadelphia Eagles and Green Bay Packers. He has coached quarterbacks and wide receivers in the past. The Browns have coaches in both roles already: senior offensive assistant and wide receivers coach Al Saunders as well as quarterbacks coach David Lee.

Jackson is expected to take some time away in order to determine additional staff changes beyond the offensive coordinator role.

He's been a QB coach, WR coach, and Passing game coordinator in the past.

Ken Zampese

Personal information

Born: July 19, 1967 (age 50)

Career information
High school: San Diego (CA) University
College: San Diego

Career history

As coach:
Southern California...Graduate assistant (1990–1991)

Northern Arizona (1992–1994)...Wide receivers coach

Northern Arizona (1995)...Offensive coordinator

Miami (Ohio) (1996–1997)...Quarterbacks coach & passing game coordinator

Philadelphia Eagles (1998)...Offensive assistant

Green Bay Packers (1999)...Offensive assistant

St. Louis Rams (2000)...Offensive assistant

St. Louis Rams (2001)...Wide receivers coach

St. Louis Rams (2002)...Passing game coordinator

Cincinnati Bengals (2003–2015)...Quarterbacks coach

Cincinnati Bengals (2016–2017)...Offensive coordinator

link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Zampese

Well this will bear watching ..

I can't see Al Saunders leaving. Maybe he's taking David Lee's job?

Before anyone goes crazy the author states that this is just a theory, but there is some interesting information here.

https://scout.com/nfl/browns/Article/Cou...essor-113041522

BEREA, Ohio -- Is there a way that John Dorsey could end up bringing in his own head coach?

Conspiracy theorists want to know.

Owner Jimmy Haslam has repeatedly said that Hue Jackson will return as the Browns coach in 2018, yet it seems to be an unpopular decision with many Browns fans. There have been reports that Jackson has a huge escalator clause if he were to be fired before his third season with the Browns. Whatever the reason, Jackson is in the process of adding to his coaching staff.

A national report over the weekend said that Dorsey would be hiring an offensive coordinator for the Browns. That report was shot down and Jackson addressed it in his season-ending press conference Monday when asked if Dorsey will hire an offensive coordinator.
“I really appreciate John’s expertise," Jackson said. "He has seen a lot of different ways to do things, and I will lean on him for things, but I don’t think John is making a decision on if we are going to have a coordinator or not.”

Dorsey reports to Haslam directly, as does Jackson, so Dorsey does not have hiring the head coach in his job description as currently constructed.

When suggested that hiring an offensive coordinator would be a decision for the head coach, Jackson responded:

“I would think so, thank you," Jackson said laughing.

However, Jackson said he's open to hiring an offensive coordinator.

“I kind of addressed that some weeks ago when I said that is something that I would be looking into," he said. "I am going to take this week myself and go reflect on all of those things. It is something that I have thought about, adding a coordinator here.

"I think the staff decisions for me will be from reflecting over the next week or so and just seeing where we are, seeing what I think in need to do to help this organization be the best it can be," he said. "I think that is one of my jobs as a leader is to go back and look how can we improve and how can we get better in all of the areas.”

With all of the responsibilities of a head coach, it would seem that Jackson would be persuaded to at least bring in a coordinator as he's had play calling issues, game management issues, as well as clock management issues. Also, talk about an offensive coordinator--for the most part--started after Dorsey became GM.
“Oh yeah, there is a possibility," he said. "I have said before that at some point in time I would like to do differently because I think it is important to coach the team. Now that I truly understand the situation and have been through it and have looked at it… Again, I did not want to put that pressure on somebody else early in this situation. Now knowing, now seeing and now truly believing in that the team is going to take a step forward, I think everything is on the table.”

Jackson said he didn't want to put "pressure on somebody" but one of the most logical in-house hirings when a coach is fired is to name the offensive coordinator as the head coach--at least for the interim--and with no OC on staff, there were not too many viable alternatives to replace Jackson in 2017.

Reports surfaced Tuesday that Texans quarterbacks coach Sean Ryan and former Bengals offensive coordinator Ken Zampese were two potential assistants that Jackson was going to interview. On Thursday, reports came out that Ryan was considering staying with the Texans with opportunities to move up there. Also, a report said that Zampese wasn't being considered as an offensive coordinator.

Jackson will ultimately be the one making the decision on offensive coordinator or even if there's an assistant head coach added, but Dorsey could have a real strong say in that in suggesting offensive-minded coaches who might already be on his short list of head coaching candidates that he surely had when he was named the Browns GM.

Two coaching candidates rumored to be high on Dorsey's list are Chiefs offensive coordinator Matt Nagy and special teams coordinator Dave Toub. If not hired to be a head coach elsewhere, Nagy could be promoted to assistant head coach/offensive coordinator with the Browns. Toub could also be named assistant head coach. There also might be someone on Dorsey's list that has worked with Jackson in the past, as well.

If things don't start quickly in 2018 for Jackson and the Browns, a newly hired coordinator or assistant head coach could be the guy to step in during the season or even after the 2018 season, providing the Browns don't take a major step in the right direction.

Just a theory, but it's worth keeping an eye on in the coming days and weeks to see how much influence the new GM might have on new additions in key areas on the coaching staff.