DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Baker Not ready to compete with Tyrod

Absolutely...

Sashi drafted Cody Kessler in the third round. While I don't think Taylor is all that good, I sure think he's better than Kessler. Thus, I agree w/you that it wasn't such a bad trade.

I know in the supplemental draft thread I said we better not be picking first in the 2nd round next year...that was a few days ago. I am sure I have probably said top 10 in the past.

Anyway, that was old discussion. It's a new season, the slate is clean and away we go.

In fewer words, that was my point.

Unless TT gets hurt, he is going to start. End of story.

I don't even want to try to guess when Baker might get in....he may not. We have a chance to still be in a playoff race until late in the season. If we are, we ride with TT, as we should. If not, maybe sometime in November?

IMO if Taylor is playing at an average or above level - Baker shouldn't see the field.



He should be better with Cody with an arm and if it's there, an ability to throw deep and an added chance to scramble. Man... he better be better than Cody lol.

There's nothing wrong with that though. Better safe than sorry, no?

While the Bills might have thought a third round pick was a steal for Tyrod, that doesn't mean the other teams in the league don't agree.

We secured Tyrod before FA happened. Who knows who we might have been competing with to get the guy. New Quarterbacks went to the Cardinals, Broncos, Jets (right off the top of my head), and Vikings. We have no idea what kind of competition those teams might have given us in the trade market before FA.

We picked a guy we liked, who fitted what we needed to do, and we secured him. Price might have been steep, but sometimes getting your guy is better than "winning the negotiation".


Either Peen or Vers used this when talking about not getting Pryor in FA last year. We won the negotiation and lost the player. It's a good point in a lot of things. Sometimes you have to overpay to get what you want. Just how it goes

You know .. I am satisfied in the long run .. that we are better off now than we would have been in winning Pryor. On paper, I think we are better off. JMHO

Baker Mayfield got engaged to his girlfriend.

And this from Mary K.


Hey, Mary Kay: During minicamp, did Baker Mayfield make any throws that made you say 'okay, that's why they took him No. 1?' - Jeff Day, Norton, Ohio



Hey, Jeff: Absolutely! Mayfield's arm talent has never been in question. He can make all the throws, puts enough spin on the ball to whip through icy Lake Erie winds, and is pinpoint accurate. I saw him throw NFL-worthy touchdown passes to receivers such as Corey Coleman and Damion Ratley. Working with the second-team offense, Mayfield isn't throwing much yet to Josh Gordon and Jarvis Landry, but he's making the most of his chances with the second-team wideouts. He's completing NFL-caliber short, intermediate and deep passes, and routes all over the field. The things Mayfield must still work hard on are operating under center, knowing the offense well enough to play fast, and identifying coverages. But he's progressing quickly.

Cleveland.com, Plain Dealer.

Man ... we’re SO OVERDUE and i mean SO OVERDUE its not even funny ...

And i have NO CLUE if hes got the talent both mentally and/or physically to do this ... and even if he does have the talent to eventually be the man with the O he comes from and the transition from that O to the NFL making his an even steeper climb than most rookie QB’s ....

Dudes got the deck stacked against him ... no doubt .... then i think ...

Not the guy i wanna bet against .... GOOD LUCK BAKER ...

j/c


I think Memphis has it right and that Dorsey didn't want a repeat of the past two seasons so I think he felt it necessary to get a viable starter in this league. And I'm not sure if Tyrod was his first choice, but I think he was on the list.

And based from what I've read, I believe Hue doesn't want a repeat of the past two seasons either... I think it's becoming obvious to me that he's taking no chance on a rookie this year, whether that's good or bad.

I don't doubt Baker could be ready for the first week and I don't doubt any other rookie would be in same position. Hue's job is on the line. After starting Kessler for half a season and Kizer all last season, I doubt he wants to leave his career in the hands of a rookie.

And it's not so much that Baker is behind the other rookie quarterbacks because he is slower at grasping things, it's because the coaches are holding him back. He's not practicing with the first team not because he's not ready, but because the coaches don't want him to.

I think it's obvious the coaches have committed to Tyrod for the start of the season. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's probably setting Baker back, who more than likely would be starting for a team like the Jets or Cardinals had he been drafted there. They simply aren't prepping Baker in Cleveland like the Jets and Cardinals are prepping Darnold and Rosen, respectively.

Baker will be a better quarterback than Tyrod, he just needs his chance.

I don't think tab will say the above comments are fueled by an agenda. LOL But, that's okay.

I am curious to how you know all of these things? Do we even know if Baker can read post-snap coverages? Do we know if he can get us into the right formation or call the correct audible when under center? Do we know if he can throw w/anticipation? Do we know how he will react when teams change coverages on him?

He was not asked to do those things in college. So, I'm curious as to how you know that Baker will be better than Taylor, or that he isn't getting the chances Darnold and Rosen are just because, and you don't doubt that he can be ready by week one? How in the world do you "know" all of those things?

I don't know if Baker can or can not do all of those things. What I do know is that they are very important and Baker wasn't asked to do them in college. I also know that some Spread guys make the adjustment and others really struggle w/it. Others never get them.

I think it is a tad early to be making definitive statements on how good Baker will be and what he can do or not do.

He can do all those things, it's just a matter of time and hands-on experience at this level.

How do you know that when he wasn't asked to do them in college?

We don't know that he will be able to. Bottom line, until he shows us one way or another.

Because I see that he has the IT factor. I see him winning a Superbowl or 2. Go Browns!

Oh.....

It might have to wait awhile because I think Tyrod will excel with all these weapons we now have! It will be exciting..

My comments are not fueled by an agenda like some here...




I'm actually curious why you think he can't do any of these things because you think he wasn't asked to do them in college. But the answer to most those questions you rhetorically asked is yes he can. Whether or not he was asked to do them is irrelevant. He did them anyway.




Just facts. Darnold and Rosen have practiced with their respective first teams, Baker has not. Baker saying the Browns taking it too slow with him doesn't give the impression he can't or isn't able. He's ready and able to learn but the coaches are taking it slower with him than he expected.




It's too bad you choose to remain ignorant on Baker Mayfield. I've been in his corner for over 6 months now explaining why he's going to be great. I remember when there was laughter at the notion of drafting Baker #1. I think you were one who said no way. He's easily the best quarterback in the draft, but you want to assume the Browns got it wrong.

If the Browns pick the player you wanted, they made the right move. If they don't pick the guy you wanted that means they screwed up. I guess I'm just not as smart as you.

I clearly stated that I did not know if he could do them or not.

I'll let the personal insults go, but I have not seen evidence that Baker did those things in college despite your claims that he has.

j/c

I'm surprised that there has been virtually no talk about the 'newness' of the offensive team being a factor in who will 'start' at QB.

New OC and offense, new role for the HC, new-ish training camp for JG, new stud WR in JL, new and young LT (no matter who gets the start), new RT, new-because-he's-only-in-his-second-year-and-about-to-turn-a-whopping-21 TE, new bell-cow RBs, new rookie QB not experienced in taking snaps under center.

I'm not sure another team in the league with a RD #1 QB can match that...and I doubt ANY Rd #1 QB in the 2018 draft is 'ready' to lead that kind of an offensive team.

I’m not sure any team in the history of the NFL can match that for a top 5 pick in the draft. We were in a VERY UNIQUE situation in that we had way more talent on the team than our record indicated and we had more money for FA than anyone in the history of the league is my guess and are u kidding me with the QUALITY and QUANTITY of draft picks ...

VERY VERYT UNIQUE situation ....

And your correct about EVERYTHING being new ... no doubt thats a negative factor in the areas u mentioned ... but it also means that TT is starting from scratch with everyone and everything ...

And the experience we have with guys like Landry and Hyde and the other vets will help Baker with his transition ...

I give Baker maybe a 3% chance to pull this off ... I’ll be shocked if he does .... just wanted to present the other side of all the “newness” around here ....

Never in the recent history of the NFL, do I remember having so many options at QB, both draft and FA.

This FO chose TT and Mayfield out of the options that even included an SB MVP and what is for me the best QB rookie that came out since Luck, in Rosen (apart from Deshaun).

Plenty of options but no excuses now....

Ps. I would never, ever go down this path, and few would, so don't be surprised for the criticism and lack of slack for excuses.

Which Super Bowl MVP was available?

Nick Foles, it was the last one, remember....

Nick Foles and I were equally 'available' this offseason.

See. I think this has been mentioned. Or at least I've mentioned it.

It's a huge factor. Get this offense up to speed as fast as possible. Best way to do this is with a vet QB like Tyrod

Easier to get the offense up to speed with Tyrod and insert Baker later than have the offense grow with Baker (who will be adjusting to NFL Defenses and Speed, along with a new offense)

Huge factor in the reason we traded for Tyrod

Browns tried to trade for Foles

Exactly.

Brees was "available", I guess, but he was never going to truly be available.

I don't know that he was never available. I remember reading something where Foles said he didn't want to play in Cleveland when we tried to trade for him.

I am not sure if that report was true, but you guys don't know if there was absolutely no chance of Foles being traded.

I posted the article above because Rastan said Dorsey chose TT over Foles and that he intends to hold Dorsey accountable for that choice. My point is that if Dorsey tried to trade for Foles but couldn't, then traded for TT, then it wasn't a choice, but more of a plan B (or C or D.)

I figured as much. I wasn't getting on your case at all. I promise. Glad you posted it. It added facts to a lot of rampant speculation.

There was an article that said that he was never asked about a trade to Cleveland.

Nick Foles: I never heard about Browns trade offer – ProFootballTalk
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/29/nick-foles-i-never-heard-about-browns-trade-offer/

It's unusual for players to be notified that they're in trade talks. It's bad practice.

Some reporters said that he rejected a trade to the Browns. That was all I was responding too.

I always find these posts interesting. Not knocking rasta, but 9+ teams didn't feel this way and 3 of them needed quarterbacks and drafted someone else. I would have taken Rosen over Allen, that's for sure.

I remember some here were high on Russell Wilson in that draft as well and all 32 teams missed on him. It happens.

in that draft .. I stated I wanted Wilson from Wisconsin.. and was pretty much told he was nothing and would amount to nothing in the NFL .. too short and no arm. Our Board Experts are not always right.

I wasn't knocking on the FO for not trading for Foles,just saying that they have no excuses for going the way they had gone.

Both Nick Foles and Odell were available this off-season, for the right price, and we were one of the few that could afford them.

The reports about us trying to trade for Foles were not confirmed, and Foles state later he was never approached about that trade.

Typical Browns acting.

Teams passed on Rosen because of his political views, not because of his skill.

Actually there are a number of liberal players waiting to be signed....but I understand Haslam would never do it.

I don't know if there's any truth to this or not. For me there were other things I didn't like as much as Baker although Rosen was probably my #2 or #3. If Baker wasn't in this draft I would have been good with Rosen. I believe Baker possesses certain traits that only come along once in a generation.

I think it was more about his injury history and questions about his attitude than his political views.