DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Team Growth

I too am impressed by how the team has looked since Hue was fired. This is easy to say after the Falcons game, but they even (kind of) held their own against the Chiefs, all things considered-- the injuries, the shakeup in the coaching staff, and also the Chiefs are one of 3 or so teams that are just on a different level this season.

I also was not really expecting this. I kind of thought keeping/firing Hue was damned if you do, damned if you don't, and while it obviously had to be done, wouldn't lead to much benefit during the season. In reality, the team seems re-energized, more disciplined, and there's been a huge improvement on the field and I imagine in the locker room as well.

Hopefully the team can keep improving and growing during the bye week. How sweet would it be to go and smash Cincy in their own house.

(deleted: accidentally quoted instead of editing my above post)

Any chance you’ll pm me your username and password ...

Please? ... ....

Much like the bump in energy/execution that came with our QB swap, it'll be interesting to see if the team regresses back to the mean after 1-2 more games. I figure shakeups at QB/HC/etc. have an effect for up to 3 games before the team settles back into its normal habits. It will be very telling whether or not this happens.

I'm not going to rag on Hue but I do think the controversy between he and Haley was unhealthy.

I'm really looking for a division win on the road as the next major step forward.

I think Hue was just not very good, and Haley was too interested in trying to shoehorn players into HIS system, instead of allowing the players to do what THEY did best.

Now that, my friend, would be like marshmallows on a fire. If our staff can engineer that, I'll be more convinced in keeping them on than re-booting again. Win in BAL - give them the keys. We win 3 of the remaining games then the incumbents have to be front runners. Add Arians. Job done.

If we don't, then start again knowing we have a legit QB.

A few things I noticed this week that show growth.

They showed an ability to drive down and score on the first drive. That's what good teams are able to do, and that's what we did today.

We won on the road against a division opponent, winning a must win game to keep playoff hopes alive.

The team looked relaxed and confident, something we haven't really seen yet.

No drops by the receivers. Chemistry is developing between Baker and the guys.

Njoku is progressing. He is going to be a beast, and looks much better than he did earlier. Still needs to learn to not leave his feet unless it's absolutely necessary.

Very few penalties. There was a costly roughing penalty at the end that gave Cincy a first down, but overall the team played disciplined football.

Even when it wasn't working we kept running the ball, confident it would pay off. That shows growth and confidence in the run game.

The team didn't crumble when momentum shifted.

They made plays when needed to close the game out.

Find the QB and the coach and the rest will follow.

GM... Dorsey is playing a key role.

it's amazing how much better our team looks when we have good QB play

Its amazing how much better the team is with a coach that knows what he is doing.

Baker isn't the major difference, although he is helping. the absence of HUE is.

Baker isn't a major difference?

Do you watch the games?

Baker isn't THE major difference.

The MAJOR DIFFERENCE was firing HUE.

Do you watch the games?

Well, the right GM finds both of those so I assumed that was implied.

Baker is making a difference.

Attitude is making a difference.

Discipline and confidence are making a difference

But for me its all about Kitchens, last week agauijnst a team weak in the middle he went max protection, brought multiple tight end sets, limited motion to the tight sets and even a three back set.

This week, wneh Hue looked prepared to clog the middle( see Chubbs YPC) and was selling out to stop the run, he came out in multiple five weide sets, moved TE's out, used one back offense and as will be open when the LB's are pulled into the box deeper crossing routes. He afforded better protection by moviong th pocket some and giving readily available check downs to Mayfield. One st

Baker is making a difference.

Attitude is making a difference.

Discipline and confidence are making a difference

But for me its all about Kitchens, last week agauijnst a team weak in the middle he went max protection, brought multiple tight end sets, limited motion to the tight sets and even a three back set.

This week, when Hue looked prepared to clog the middle( see Chubbs YPC) and was selling out to stop the run, he came out in multiple five wide sets, moved TE's out, used one back offense and as will be open when the LB's are pulled into the box deeper crossing routes. He afforded better protection by moviong the pocket some and giving readily available check downs to Mayfield. One stat that jumped out at me, we had five receivers with pass plays over 21 yards, no dink and dunk crap.

Now the next game as a DC what do you prepare for, tight sets or spread out sets, crossing routes where you need deeper LB sets or seam routes where the you need two high safeties that clog the middle.

Kitchens is dialing it up, and Mayfield is doing all that is asked from him, and more.

j/c...

Not necessarily a response to you exclusively, but a general response to a phrase you used.

“dink and dunk crap”

Short, accurate passes that open running space for backs and receivers are a very, very effective tool for ANY offense to be able to use.

It’s one of my favorite phrases to hate.

Use whatever you need to use to win.

Actually he used the dink and dunk pretty effectively against Atlanta, that was kind of part of my premise.

But I understand your angst at the term, I n fact most terms seem to have some negative connotation, deserved or otherwise.

I have a buddy that I’m always giving a beat down to about using it. And it’s always a perjorative. I wish there was a “good” catch-phrase for those passes.

"Ball control passes." An extension of the running game passes."

Smart passes.

Baker also had 4 TD passes and 4 deep pass completions out of 19 completions. That's not a bad percentage.

Can it not be all of the above? Obviously Baker is proving to be "the guy" for the foreseeable future, but man has the entire team been better since Hue got canned. It's a mixture of both imo. Baker has continued to get better, and Hue getting canned helped that development (as well as the rest of the team).

We're talking about an offshoot of the Nickel & Dime Offense which evolved into the West Coast Offense, credited to Bill Walsh who devised early portions of it while working under Paul Brown. (Parcells popularized the phrase"West Coast Offense" in derision after beating the 49ers, after Bernie Kozar used it to describe the Air Coryell system but was misquoted and applied to Walsh's system.)

So, it's really the "Browns Offense" if you think about it.

I want to say I appreciate how some try to define "the reason" for success but I'd like to remind everyone that the thread is about growth as a team as we watch the organization transform into a consistently winning franchise. You can see it coming together as certain aspects begin to assert themselves (winning, consistency, fewer penalties, and so on) but I caution that it is a process. One that takes time, and the coordinated function of all aspects from GM, to coaches, to players, to consistent execution. Bear in mind these past two wins may be considered wins against mediocre teams, and as we move on to play Houston in Texas, Denver in Denver a mile in the air (even though they're 5-6), and the Panthers at home we likely face far greater challenges against these teams. Since the Browns are in "growth mode" it's conceivable we see regression in the coming weeks but that doesn't mean there isn't or won't be growth. And while Baker is certainly a big part of "the reason", he is certainly not all of it.

Agreed. Houston at home is a tough game for anybody the way they are playing. We are 5-23 lifetime against Denver and at their place a win is a longshot at best for us. Carolina is a good team but at least we have them at home. We are 1-4 lifetime against them. My fellow Browns fans have a right to their opinions. As for me I will keep my optimism tempered and hope for the best.

Sunday against Houston, we have a chance to take another step in our growth as a team. I am anxous to see who will continue to step up.

Wait, what? Ball control passes? An extension of the running game? I thought passing was inherently dangerous, a sure fire way to have turnovers, to blow football games... 3 things can happen and 2 are bad... now it's just an extension of the running game?

j/c...

Baker Mayfield Plants His Flag: Week 12 in the NFL

By Albert Breer
November 26, 2018

The sentiment really started circulating through the Browns’ offensive meeting rooms and locker room on Thursday, and it built on Friday, during the short Saturday flight downstate to Cincinnati and into game day. But it’s one thing for guys to quietly talk about their grudges amongst themselves. It’s another to go public with them.

Leave that to Baker Mayfield.

After tearing through the Bengals for 258 yards and four touchdowns on 19 of 26 passing en route to a 35–20 win, the No. 1 overall draft pick was visibly cold toward former Browns coach Hue Jackson, who joined the Cincinnati staff less than two weeks after being ousted in Cleveland. And when he was asked about the post-game exchange afterwards, he made clear that it was no mistake: “I didn’t feel like talking.”

“I don’t know. Left Cleveland, goes down to Cincinnati, I don’t know,” Mayfield explained at his press conference. “It’s just somebody [who] was in our locker room, asking for us to play for him and then goes to a different team we play twice a year. Everyone can have their spin on it, but that’s how I feel.”

Maybe this doesn’t register quite like Mayfield’s flag-planting did two Septembers ago just down the road in Columbus, after his Oklahoma team upended Ohio State at the Horseshoe. But the idea wasn’t far off.

In each case, Mayfield felt disrespected, carried an edge shared by his teammates, exacted his revenge and then made the opponent eat it.

Those in the Browns’ facility over the last few days could see it coming, too. Once that seed was planted—Hue asked us to play for him, then went to a division rival without hesitation, and that’s BS—the quarterback had a little extra for this one, and that quickly became contagious.

“We weren’t losing that game,” said one Browns staffer Sunday night. “No way in hell were we losing that game.”

Mayfield wouldn’t let them. It’s a new day in Cleveland.

So here’s the thing about Mayfield’s swagger—it’s not empty. He’s a football junkie, which is reflected in the time he spends on his game, and in a work ethic that naturally has become a big part of why players, young and old alike, follow him. That, and the fact that he can really play.

That work and ability show up in how Mayfield is improving on an almost daily basis. As much as anything, his first-half flourish in Cincinnati—he was 17 of 22 for 245 yards and three touchdowns as the Browns raced to a 28-0 lead—was a remarkable display of that improvement, with evidence surfacing in subtle but effective ways.

The Browns ran different personnel groupings on the field on just about every snap of their game-opening, 10-play, 78-yard touchdown drive, which gave Mayfield and the coaches a look at how the Bengals would react and adjust. What they found was that Cincinnati was sold out to stop Nick Chubb and the run game, which led to the aerial assault to come.

On Cleveland’s second possession, the coaches empowered Mayfield by going empty backfield straight through. Doing that puts the onus on the quarterback to get his protection calls right—since there’s no last line of defense with a pass-blocking back—and the staff trusted that Mayfield would accomplish that. The benefit is that, with the defense spread out, the quarterback has a clearer view of where rushers are coming from, which helped Mayfield pick the Bengals apart. And the amazing thing is that Mayfield had almost no experience in this area coming into the NFL.

Offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens and his staff worked to attach run-action to plays out of all those personnel groupings, which helped in making Mayfield comfortable and getting him playing fast—another sign that this is increasingly becoming the rookie’s offense. The approach was effective Sunday, even though the run game (2.4 yards per carry) really wasn’t.

Mayfield has also started to follow a directive to incorporate Chubb into the passing game. The second-round rookie wasn’t considered much of a threat in that area coming out of school (he had nine catches in 28 games over his last two seasons at Georgia), but the coaches liked what they saw from him in practice and believed using him as a pass-catcher would help open up the run game. Chubb had three catches for 44 yards on Sunday, including a spectacular 14-yard touchdown on which the rookie reached around and pinned the ball to the back of Bengals safety Brandon Wilson.

In essence, the recent success is a combination of the staff finding concepts that Mayfield feels good running, and Mayfield improving at a breakneck pace. And in the end, the results looked like this …

Drive 1: 10 plays, 78 yards, touchdown
Drive 2: Four plays, 56 yards, touchdown
Drive 3: 12 plays, 96 yards, touchdown
Drive 4: 11 plays, 59 yards, touchdown

The score was 35–7 in the third quarter before the Browns would punt. And once that finally happened, a Cleveland offense that probably could have piled on the points and yards went into protection mode—Mayfield threw just three passes the rest of the way, completing one, for seven yards.

Here’s one other nugget to take with you: I’m told that last week wasn’t a great week of practice for the Browns offense. In the past, that would’ve been a killer for a team that was searching for confidence and to find its way.

Thanks to Mayfield, it now looks like Cleveland isn’t that kind of team anymore, and the way they stuck it to an old coach of theirs on Sunday only serves as more proof.

Sports Illustrated: MMQB Article

You are just trying to justify your passion for the worst coach in the NFL history.

Coaches Coach teams, and teams are the ones that win or lose games.

News Flash: The Browns have the 9th best run offense and the 23rd best passing offense, so cut the crap about Baker being the major improvement.

The major improvement is not having a complete idiot calling the plays and running the team.

Baker is doing good, no question about it, but don't try and spin the story, and at least show some humility when you are called by the ones who got it right.

Maybe when you get something right that you can regain your bragging rights.


PFFFF, we had to take your crap for 2 years, enough is enough.

The big reasons that this team has grown, in no particular order:

Mayfield: Brings outstanding leadership on and off the field. He's infectious.

Chubb: Quiet leadership. Plays the game like Jim Brown played it. Goes out, does his job, doesn't over celebrate, acts like he's been there before and expects to be there again.

Williams: He Lets it FLY. Teaches the players, then let's them do what they were taught to do.

Kitchens: Comes up with effective ways to use the tools he has on the field.. He finds fun things to do with those tools and they are all responding to him. Baker Trusts him so they all do.

Dorsey: Unless you believe that Haslam chose the players we picked up, then he deserves a LARGE amount of the credit for assembling this team. I can't wait to see what happens next.

We are exactly 5 wins from having a shot at the playoffs (yes, unlikely) and in any year in November, that's exciting..

I agree on Chubb. He's been a rock for two months now .... he's a stud

I'll also add the emergence of Demarious Randall. He brings swag and gives our back end D stability

The shorter the pass the better rate of success. Check the stats. lmao

I'm going way out on a limb here to say that in this case, you are both right... to a degree.. but the bulk of the blame goes on Hue/Haley...

Baker's rating with Hue (and Haley) was 78.9 with Williams (and Kitchens) it's 129.5 ....

So I don't care that the Browns are 23rd in passing, that's yardage which is relatively unimportant.... Baker has been an efficiency machine since Hue left...

It's hard for me to conclude anything but the fact that Hue/Haley were the problem... but that the biggest benefactor of Hue leaving is that Baker is now being properly utilized....