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Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
When we are 1-5 at the bye and looking at the Patriots the next game I wonder if he will survive? Because I can see the Haslams wanting to pull the plug. You think we will beat any of the upcoming teams playing like this? We could very easily be 1-6 before we play Denver and that's IN Denver so who knows what could happen... This season is about to get REALLY ugly if our HC doesn't get his stuff together. I don't care what he does, but he better do SOMETHING and FAST! Or it's his ass.


I don't know.

Everything else with this team seems decent.

I really like our Defensive Coordinator. Even more-so, I like our Special Teams Coach. I mean, our special teams is so much better than these Amos Jones garbage we've seen. At this point, i prefer the guy over Chris "Teflon" Tabor.

While i'm dissapointed in what i've seen of Freddie so far, firing him would be a major setback.


Freddie needs to get his house (the offense) in order. No matter what, i don't think 1-5 will see the end of him. What other option do we have? We fire him and who takes over the offense? Ryan Finley (his protege?). James Campen, Adam Henry, and Stump Mitchell all have been long-time position coaches. Todd Monken is already OC, and he could be part of the problem.


So, yeah. If this continues, end of the season, we evaluate. But i'd rather give Freddie every chance to figure out what he's doing, rather than losing our DC and Special Teams Coach and starting over again.



So you might see me complaining about Freddie this whole season (if nothing changes), but i certainly won't be calling for his head

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Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.


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Even early on we read that were problems with the offensive install. This goes back to mini camps. It seems there are still problems. There is still a disconnect.

I don't know exactly what it is, it's probably a combination of things.

The D played well enough to win that game. The O can't get it going. I am a fan of Freddie, but those 4 passes at the end had and have me shaking my head.


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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.
hint.. I wasn’t wrong. Plenty of analysts broke that play down and saw the same thing. Most you should ever see a qb drop from gun is 3 steps which should. Almost instant. Baker was wrong, made wrong read and wrong decision. Keep making excuses for him and his bad play.

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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.


I would never have discussed this particular play because it is not a big deal, but you are really harping on it and you keep saying that lead is wrong.

The play and the Daniel Jones play were both highlighted on an ESPN morning show and guys who actually played or coached in the NFL said that Baker lacked awareness on that play and how Jones made a better read. And yes, they did show the plays rather than just a still shot.

I'm not saying this in a mean way, but you might want to let this particular argument fade away...

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Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
When we are 1-5 at the bye and looking at the Patriots the next game I wonder if he will survive? Because I can see the Haslams wanting to pull the plug. You think we will beat any of the upcoming teams playing like this? We could very easily be 1-6 before we play Denver and that's IN Denver so who knows what could happen... This season is about to get REALLY ugly if our HC doesn't get his stuff together. I don't care what he does, but he better do SOMETHING and FAST! Or it's his ass.


I don't know.

Everything else with this team seems decent.

I really like our Defensive Coordinator. Even more-so, I like our Special Teams Coach. I mean, our special teams is so much better than these Amos Jones garbage we've seen. At this point, i prefer the guy over Chris "Teflon" Tabor.

While i'm dissapointed in what i've seen of Freddie so far, firing him would be a major setback.


Freddie needs to get his house (the offense) in order. No matter what, i don't think 1-5 will see the end of him. What other option do we have? We fire him and who takes over the offense? Ryan Finley (his protege?). James Campen, Adam Henry, and Stump Mitchell all have been long-time position coaches. Todd Monken is already OC, and he could be part of the problem.


So, yeah. If this continues, end of the season, we evaluate. But i'd rather give Freddie every chance to figure out what he's doing, rather than losing our DC and Special Teams Coach and starting over again.



So you might see me complaining about Freddie this whole season (if nothing changes), but i certainly won't be calling for his head


my biggest fear was 1-6 and I am pretty sure I was the only one really saying it.


I think Freddie is in over his head and needs to turn over the play-calling duties. He needs to trust the people he hired to call the offense. Once that happens, we will probably start winning more games

or ... we get rid of this trash offense we have been running we will win more games. It was never designed with Baker and the players we have on the team in mind. It was designed based on what the coach wanted.


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I don't know about turning things over to Monken. I am not a fan of his offense and style. I'm wondering if he is part of the problem????????

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This breakdown showing the issue on the final drive was basically all Baker. Though FK deserves some of the flak for some of the earlier stuff.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/09...ilm-review.html


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I am not questioning his poor decision to not step up in the pocket, but there is no way Baker can pull off the same play that Daniel Jones did hours earlier.

Baker should have stepped up all day long. Rolling out right was death. But he would have never made it to the endzone had he decided to run. A lot factors not being considered when people say he could have scored.

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Punch, what you just said is crucial. For all of the woe is me wailing and gnashing of teeth, we beat Baltimore sunday and we lead our division. I watched a little of their game Sunday and we can beat them.

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After 2 games I too was saying 1-6 is a real possibility. There's too much talent on offense for us to be playing the way we are. Our D and ST seem to be fine. There are probably some coaches that would love to get their hands on our O with all the talent we have and we still have Hunt and Calloway waiting to come back. Waste of talent in the 1st 3 games. No way we should be playing as bad as we are on O.

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Originally Posted By: keithfromxenia
Punch, what you just said is crucial. For all of the woe is me wailing and gnashing of teeth, we beat Baltimore sunday and we lead our division. I watched a little of their game Sunday and we can beat them.
We have the better team, we just need to translate the talent from the locker room to the field.

If we get outcoached (which is a high possibility) we will lose.

If baker struggles, we will lose.

I think our defense is MADE to stop their offense - lets hope we get some guys back so its not a taller order than it should be.

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You know, we can look at all the negatives and be all gloom and doom. But you know what. we took the reigning NFC Champs to the wire. A team many say are going to be in the Super Bowl. And we did it with a banged up D and an Offense that is still coming together.

I don't see Baker so much as confused as much as I see him as having no confidence in his OLine. I see his timing with Odell improving. Soon we will have Callaway returning and that may give us a boost with a deep threat. Hunt will will return and give us a nice bump for the run in the second half.

I think Freddie needs to get back to some of the things that made us successful last year. Remember, he is still learning as well...He was an OCoordinator for only half a year. And we can see that he can make adjustments. We wanted to get the ball out of Baker's hand quicker and he made the rpo packages to do that this week. Now he has to trust that a little more, help his OLine....I think we need to do less 11 personnel. And get back to more 2 tightend packages. even with Njoku out.

I personally was encouraged by this game instead of concerned after the Jets game. Still much to work on...And I can see them working on it. But I have always felt that next year was the real Super Bowl Run not this year. JMO


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With the amount of talent we have, us losing is simply a matter of 1 of 2 things (or both):

1 - being out-coached.
2 - failing to execute.

No excuses for either.


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Originally Posted By: leadtheway
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.
hint.. I wasn’t wrong. Plenty of analysts broke that play down and saw the same thing. Most you should ever see a qb drop from gun is 3 steps which should. Almost instant. Baker was wrong, made wrong read and wrong decision. Keep making excuses for him and his bad play.


Actually, you were wrong. You stated that a QB does not drop from a shotgun snap. That is wrong.

You then implied that once Baker set up, there was a gaping hole for him to run into. That was also wrong, as shown in the video. Did you even watch the video, or are you content to use a picture out of context?


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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: myka
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: leadtheway
Someone needs to ask the league office just what actually constitutes a hold or penalty in our favor


I remember that play.

Collinsworth couldn't stop talking about how awesome Whitworth was.


Yeah. It was all game as usual. Very hard to watch the NFL these days.


I'll throw in my .02, in case someone cares.

For me, the part that gets me fed up is that the refs routinely call these ticky-tack holding calls, and then something like this doesn't get called. I can live with one or the other, but the level of inconsistency we've hit is out of control.

.... I'm not saying this is why we lost or trying to derail the thread. That picture just touched a nerve.... and before Diam gets in here, it's not all on the refs. They bear part of the burden, but the rules around a couple of these calls are just a mess.


1.NFL Officials: Hey, Myles, we want you to instantly stop and levitate after sprinting towards and making contact with the QB while we let offensive lineman try to twist your head off. Sound good?

2. Apparently, the everyone go deep and we'll chuck it up to Mike Evans offense only works if you have Mike Evans. Who'd have guessed that?

3. I'd like to see us run routes that give DBs the potential of running into each other. Natural picks, rather than the hey WR go block that guy but pretend you're not. Slants and drags.

4a. Where is the creativity we saw last year? It almost makes me want to bring back Hue (if he was just shut away in a room designing plays, I'd be all for it)

4b. Our goal line offense is abominable. I'd like to see us run a pistol set where we motion Landry into the backfield beside Baker with Chubb behind. Have OBJ running a slant from the right. Sneak Landry into the flat where OBJ was. Run an RPO with an attached TE on the left going up the field to get behind the LB if he plays the run hard. If the LB sits back let Chubb ram it down their throats between Robinson and Bitonio with a pulling Tretter joining the mashup.

5. The D played admirably. With only 2 of our regular CBs playing it's no surprise their 3rd stud WR had a field day on our backup safeties.

6. I love Ogunjobi, but I'd like to see Larry go to the bull rush more. It appears to me He's been trying to win with quickness by jumping to the outside a bit too frequently and that is opening up running lanes inside.


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My $0.02..

Is Baker hurting the team. Yes, but I don't think its because he's actually regressed. I watch him and his body language and he strikes me as a guy who's trying to execute a play call that he trusts will work and will be there because he trusts Freddie... but instinctively is realizing that it's crap, even if he hasn't consciously acknowledged that fact.

That 3rd and 10 play near our own end zone where all the WR's just ran a go route has been mentioned many times already. That's not the only time that the route design was terrible. IIRC it was in the 3rd, maybe 4th quarter. Baker starts running to his right and 3 WRs were between 15 and 25 yrds down field, ALL faking a step in and running an Out.

In man coverage.

So, even if he had a clean pocket, Baker is expected to hit 1 target in a 15yrd radius occupied by at least 6 people half of whom you don't want the ball to go to?

I understand that on occasion it might be a good call to flood a zone with receivers, but you have to set that up. That 3rd and 10 play could have worked if Baker drops back and let's it rip in a 1 on 1 situation. But you can't create a 1 on 1 when you have 3 WRs running practically side by side!

The offensive adjustments were easy. Switch to quick hitting stuff... you have the talent. Trouble handling the Dline pressure and want to go for a longer developing play? How about a boot leg or roll out?

I'm just frustrated because we're wasting so much talent. I know, Bakers in in 2nd year, Freddie's a rookie HC... but I'm tired of that excuse. And at this point that's what it is. I'm way past the whole "needing a chip on his shoulder" crapola. A chip on your shoulder doesn't win games. Perfecting your craft for the sake of perfecting your craft does. If Freddie requires a learning curve, he shouldn't have been given the job. He's been in the league long enough to see how it works. He was supposed to be more than Bakers BFF. He was supposed to be one of the new innovative breed of HC's.

I'm not going to call for him to be fired (unless we're holding at 1 win come the Bye) but he has yet to make a case for me to refute anyone who does call for him to go


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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.



But if they execute the same play from behind center Baker can immediately assess if that was an option as he starts to drop back. With that same look but inside 10 yards, I think he's got it.


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Excellent Breakdown Video.... The plays WERE there to be made if executed as designed !
Restores my faith in Freddie somewhat and less so for Baker. Im sure the pressure was causing some too quick decisions by him but I have no doubt he will clean this up quick.


Originally Posted By: leadtheway
This breakdown showing the issue on the final drive was basically all Baker. Though FK deserves some of the flak for some of the earlier stuff.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/09...ilm-review.html


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Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.



But if they execute the same play from behind center Baker can immediately assess if that was an option as he starts to drop back. With that same look but inside 10 yards, I think he's got it.


I think that we should have the QB under center far more often than we have thus far. I also see no sense in not having run at least once or twice from that close to the end zone. Time really wasn't a factor. IIRC, we went to our doom with 2 TO still in our pocket. Also, Baker has a very good ball fake. Why we didn't run play action on one of those 4 plays is beyond me. If we had a run option on that final play, handing it off to Chubb sure seems like a better option than whet we actually ran.


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Classic Cleveland Browns talk... Everybody arguing over whether or not Baker could have scored, if he scrapped the play and ran the ball -- after our coach called four consecutive pass plays from inside the five.

I was going to wait til after I watched the game film, I drove 9+ hours, each way, to watch the game live (yes, I'm bitter). I'm not sure when I'll watch the tape, so I'll be brief.

Our defense played well enough to win the game. Which is the part that has me pulling my hair out (not really, I'm bald) when reading here.

It is NOT okay, in my opinion, to look back and say "oh well, we weren't really supposed to win this game anyway". Drives me bonkers. We SHOULD have won this game. You only get 16 of these... We got sucker-punched in one and gave another one away. Not okay at all.

I was convinced Freddie Kitchens thought is was third down. He got confused processing everything: possible challenge, how the penalties would offset, etc... his brain didn't "dot all the i's" when they declined the penalty on second down... I was clinging to this for the last two days. I would much rather him be confused than flat-out dumb. How do you explain a coach that refuses to run the ball one single time from inside the five? How does the same coach run the ball on 4th and 9??? Wow. At any moment we'll zoom out and realize we're all characters in the Twilight Zone.

I've been trying to think of a scenario where I would have an empty backfield on 1st down, inside the five. All I've got: up by 21 points or more against a team you hate... But not after the 3rd quarter or someone may be intentionally injured. You're the opposing DC -- is there a formation you would rather see?? Nope. Arrogant and DUMB.

Game ball actually goes to Coach Wilks. Faced with adversity, catastrophic injury and one of the most prolific offenses in the NFL, he executed a great game-plan and gave his players a chance to win. Too bad it was all for naught.

Lastly, now that there is a three game "sample size", X's and O's aside... Second half of last season: I watched opposing defenses on their heels 75% of the time. This season? I feel like they know the plays before they're called 75% of the time.

Big game next week - better figure things out in a hurry.


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Originally Posted By: FATE
Lastly, now that there is a three game "sample size", X's and O's aside... Second half of last season: I watched opposing defenses on their heels 75% of the time. This season? I feel like they know the plays before they're called 75% of the time.


Well yeah, when you go empty backfield 75% of the time, it certainly narrows down the options to pick from ...

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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: leadtheway
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Did you ever look into a QB drop from the shotgun? I know you believe that the QB never takes a drop from a shotgun snap ...... but maybe, just maybe, you were incorrect there. (hint: You were)

Look, in order for Baker to have run on that play, it almost would have had to have been a called QB run. (catch the snap and go) He took the snap, and took a 3 step drop, as the play called for. By that point, (2 seconds) there was no running area anywhere.

Baker took the snap just as the clock was at 33. The rush got to him at 31.


You can watch the video here, instead of posting a static image that is misleading at best.

(380) Rams vs. Browns Week 3 Highlights | NFL 2019 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFmSHjhLMFw

The final play is, shockingly, at the end of the video.
hint.. I wasn’t wrong. Plenty of analysts broke that play down and saw the same thing. Most you should ever see a qb drop from gun is 3 steps which should. Almost instant. Baker was wrong, made wrong read and wrong decision. Keep making excuses for him and his bad play.


Actually, you were wrong. You stated that a QB does not drop from a shotgun snap. That is wrong.

You then implied that once Baker set up, there was a gaping hole for him to run into. That was also wrong, as shown in the video. Did you even watch the video, or are you content to use a picture out of context?


Last I’m saying on it. Just about everyone except you made the same conclusion I did. I even posted a link to the video breakdowns. I get you don’t understand or don’t want to even consider Baker isn’t a HOF qb already. But a lot more people that do this for a living have all said the same thing. So keep up whatever crusade you’re on. Not worth my time


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I want you to watch this weekend's games, and tell me how many time a a QB in shotgun does not take a drop from the catch spot.

Make sure to make note of the game and time, so I can go look.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
Baker was under center about 5 or 6 times all game. If there was any doubt before there isn't now. We are running the full-on air-raid offense. Shotgun every down, run occasionally and never consistently and throw throw throw. Chubb isn't going to get anywhere near 1000 yards. Baker will set a Brown's record for pass attempts if he survives which is doubtful. We might as well let the OC call the plays. It's his offense. This is NOTHING like what we ran last season. There is no balance at all. We are completely pass-happy.



Chubb had 23 carries for 96 yards and I think around 30 in receiving yards.


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I think a majority of Browns fans are on the same page....

We are close. Defense & Special Teams are much improved from a year ago.

Clearly there are issues on the offensive side of the ball. I think we are all aware that we need more play action. We should definitely line up under center much more than we are.

I do believe Baker's confidence is taking a hit weekly. He should be OK, but I believe the coaches should help him out.

I think the O-line has been serviceable, but not as consistent as Baker needs. I think some key adjustments on the offensive side of the ball would help the line tremendously.

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Enough of this thread!!


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Originally Posted By: leadtheway
This breakdown showing the issue on the final drive was basically all Baker. Though FK deserves some of the flak for some of the earlier stuff.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/09...ilm-review.html

A couple of those are more obvious than others.

The 4th down play, I will admit that when I saw them at the LOS, I thought that if the DL didn't stunt to the inside that the lane up the middle was going to part like the red sea and it did...

While you can make the case that somebody was (or was about to be) more open than where Baker threw the ball.. the fact remains that we had first and goal from the 4 with all 3 timeouts... and we went 4 wide and threw it into the endzone on every play. So I will still maintain that some of that lack of creativity has to go to Freddie.. We walked off the field with 2 timeouts still in the bag..

See, you take first or second down and run the ball.. let's say you don't score, you only get 2 yards.. well now you have 2nd or 3rd and goal from the 2, where the defense still has to respect the possibility of the run because we STILL have timeouts left... suddenly play action freezes a LB and a guy is actually WIDE open... we took all of those options off the table and went empty backfield every play... we voluntarily made ourselves one dimensional... with a QB who, for some reasons, refuses to run...


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Facts DC, Facts

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I listened to the game last night and listened to the call ins after. Then I read some posts on social media. I was pissed and thinking the offense was horrible and play calling was horrible.

Then I got home today and watched the game with no emotion knowing we lost. I have to say that watching I saw a different story. Except for not running on the last series, I saw no problem with the play calls. I saw a very good Rams defense providing excellent coverage and a relentless pass rush. I did see Baker bail the pocket, but in my opinion, only once did he really have a chance to step up. Chubb was a beast. IMO, the offense looked pretty good most of the game, but the pass game was hurt more by the Tams defense than our bad play calling or bad QB play.

The defense played a great game against a great offense. If Carrie could have kept up with Kupp, the game would have been different. I believe if the starting DBs were playing, it would have been a different story.

In the end, I was impressed with the play of the Browns. The Rams are a superior team, and the Browns hung with them until the end. The last series was hard to take, and I too was pissed they didn't run once, but IMO the Rams defense just was better on that series.

If the defense plays like this next week I see a win. I have to believe the Rams defense is better than Baltimores, and I think we will have better success.


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Thanks for the synopsis ... i often find that letting a few days pass and re-watching the film provides different perspectives.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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The Rams were a big measuring stick, I think they played with them the whole game. This team is young and the coaches are new. I was happy with the performance, not the result. The fact remains, that they gave themselves a chance. As this team grows together getting that chance could be all they need to beat teams like the Rams.


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There was a ton to digest about that game. I gave myself an extra day to pour out my thoughts.

Real tough game for Freddie Kitchens and Baker Mayfield.

There was blame to both guys. I'm not bailing on them like others, but they looked unprepared at times. Mayfield was having trouble reading some of these zone coverages, he was leaving the pocket when there was time to not only fire a strike downfield, but room to step forward and do so.

Freddie Kitchens and his staff must fix that right away or this thing could spiral out of control REAL fast.

I thought the defense played really well considering the opponent and our injury report. They played well enough to win. I don't think there is a ton more there to break down.

We've all seen some absolutely horrible play calls over the last 20 years, but that 4th and 9 draw play is right up there. You just don't do that. You run a draw play on 3rd and long when you know you're going to go for it on 4th, and even that can be questionable given the circumstances.

Even with all that, they still had a chance to tie or even win in the last 30 seconds of the game. Believe me, I am sick of hearing that, because we've spent the last 2 decades always being on the losing end of battles like this. It was an ugly game. You have to be able to come out on the right side of those. We won an ugly won last week. The patriots win ugly games at times, every great team does. You're not going to look like world beaters every week. Sometimes you have to be able to do just enough to win, even when it isn't your night, and I don't think our guys have figured that out yet.

But man, sad to see fans just absolutely bailing on everything after 3 games. Pretty tough. We're scarred, I get it.

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Quote:
Mayfield was having trouble reading some of these zone coverages, he was leaving the pocket when there was time to not only fire a strike downfield, but room to step forward and do so.


I keep hearing this and it is stated as if the guy was running away all night. Most of the times he bailed was because Donald or Brockers were pushing up the middle.

As for the draw, a draw is effective at times in those types of situations. It is done all the time. What ruined that play was a great play by Weddle. If Weddle didn't read and react Chubb had plenty of room in front of him.


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Quote:
Mayfield was having trouble reading some of these zone coverages, he was leaving the pocket when there was time to not only fire a strike downfield, but room to step forward and do so.


I keep hearing this and it is stated as if the guy was running away all night. Most of the times he bailed was because Donald or Brockers were pushing up the middle.


I disagree w/your take and the former players and coaches who broke down the game on TV the next day highlighted that fact repeatedly.

I get why a lot of fans are defending Baker, but it bothers me that the OL is taking blame for the faults of others. They play for the Browns, too!

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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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I think there is something to this. When we played the Jets, Booger McFarland talked about how Gregg Williams would show Baker one coverage look pre-snap and then switch the zone coverage post-snap. Williams is probably one guy who has some insight on what might confuse Baker.

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Thanks for the synopsis ... i often find that letting a few days pass and re-watching the film provides different perspectives.


I agree. There is a ton of negativity surrounding the Browns right now and I think a large part of it is due to inflated expectations. Of which, many of us are guilty.

I think folks fully expected the Browns to come out in week 1 and look like the Greatest Show on Turf V2.0 and that was unrealistic. Instead we came out and laid a big stinky turd right in the middle of the field against the Titans.. since then every single thing has been overly scrutinized and put in the most negative light. Don't get me wrong, we have been far from perfect.. from Freddie, to Baker, to the OL, to the penalties, etc.. it certainly hasn't been great and mistakes and poor play have happened...

But when you look at it with a few days of calm between the game and now.. since the Titans debacle, we beat the Jets by 20 (and everybody was upset about that) and took perhaps the best team in the NFC to the final play of the game... and we did both of those while making a multitude of correctable mistakes..

So I think this "the sky is falling" and "we'll never beat a good team" narrative that has developed is just about as premature and knee-jerk as the hype we built up in the first place.. we were a couple bonehead calls and just a little improvement out of Baker away from beating the Rams (or at the very least, taking them to OT)...

We will be ok.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Mayfield was having trouble reading some of these zone coverages, he was leaving the pocket when there was time to not only fire a strike downfield, but room to step forward and do so.


I keep hearing this and it is stated as if the guy was running away all night. Most of the times he bailed was because Donald or Brockers were pushing up the middle.


I disagree w/your take and the former players and coaches who broke down the game on TV the next day highlighted that fact repeatedly.

I get why a lot of fans are defending Baker, but it bothers me that the OL is taking blame for the faults of others. They play for the Browns, too!



See, I didn't read his comment like you did. Bitonio was left 1-1 with Donald for a good chunk of the game (at least, that's what radio was saying towards the end of the game). Simply pointing out that one of your olineman was tasked with (and failed a bit) in defending the (arguably) best football player out there right now is NOT an indictment of the oline, but is defending Baker and some of his fleeing the pocket.

Some are blaming the oline, and some are just defending Baker. There is a difference.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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You can disagree, but it isn't just me saying that Baker left the pocket early. Hell, the morning shows were replaying the times he did so the next morning and it was a major point of discussion.

I'm not saying he sucks. I'm not saying he should be replaced. I'm saying that some other guys are taking too much heat for things that are not their fault. Baker needs to get rid of the ball quicker and stop abandoning clean pockets.

Btw---not asking you to agree w/me, but it's pretty clear in my eyes.

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