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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
How about trading Baker to the Dallas for Dak with possibly some picks or other players involved? We've traded with them before on draft day. Just a little speculating on my part.

Why would Dallas ever do that? Dak is probably a top fiveish QB.

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Originally Posted by Jester
Who are the reclamation projects?
Marriota and Trubisky
Trubisky just spent a year as a backup in KC, perhaps that time with Andy Reid really helped. And we see now that the coaching staff in Chicago.
But do we really want to risk it? Do we think either of these 2 are more likely to thrive next year than Baker?

And this draft seems to be extraordinarily weak at Qb.


Did I miss any options?

Trubisky is the backup in Buffalo, not KC.


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Originally Posted by Pdawg
Originally Posted by Jester
Who are the reclamation projects?
Marriota and Trubisky
Trubisky just spent a year as a backup in KC, perhaps that time with Andy Reid really helped. And we see now that the coaching staff in Chicago.
But do we really want to risk it? Do we think either of these 2 are more likely to thrive next year than Baker?

And this draft seems to be extraordinarily weak at Qb.


Did I miss any options?

Trubisky is the backup in Buffalo, not KC.

Really? Dang. My bad, thanks for the correction.
So instead of a year with Andy Reid, he got a year with Brian Daboll - not quite the same.


As an addendum to the original post, to be complete we should probably list Drew Locke and Teddy Bridgewater
I don't think either would be an upgrade over Baker. I don't think KS would want Locke but might like Bridgewater


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Dak has had some good #'s and he is a talent but I believe this is his 6th year and really hasn't led the Cowboys too much of anything. He has come under criticism by many in the media too. I'm not saying they would make a trade for him but he has had talent around him. He should have won more by now. JMO

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They might consider a Prescott for Mayfield trade if we throw in Myles Garrett and a couple #1 draft picks.

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Originally Posted by Dave
They might consider a Prescott for Mayfield trade if we throw in Myles Garrett and a couple #1 draft picks.

I think there still would be a seven second moment of silence, followed by raucous laughter at the Browns. tongue

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by bonefish
The Watson situation will be interesting to follow.

You are presumed innocent. Before all this he was in good standing within the community. Personally I don't know a thing about his leagl case.

you are "presumed innocent" only in the court of law

At work, in the NFL, within your community, on social media, you are canceled or fired based on their opinions.


Let's not forget the Texans refused to play him (when he is in his prime) and still paid him to be on the roster. That's how guilty they think he is.

Other way around.... Watson refused to play... Texans kept him on the roster because they know they can get something in a trade eventually.... but Watson said last year he was never playing for the Texans again and that was before his legal issues


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Watson would be a dream come true. We have never had a QB of his talent.


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Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
Watson would be a dream come true. We have never had a QB of his talent.
That's incorrect. Mayfield is better than him today, Couch was a better QB than Watson is today, Watson had a short span but now he is a non entity.

Did Jarvis Landry just give up or give up on making great plays.

Was this Jarvis Landry's worst year of his career because he didn't show up all season long.
Is Landry just not very good.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Yeah I wonder if Dak could even put up half the numbers throwing to the Cleveland misfit receivers vs the all star cast he has there. Oline is better in Dallas, way better with the injuries in Cleveland. Zek is at least as good as Chubb and stays healthy more. Dallas plays wide open with a great mine offensive coordinator kellen Moore versus the plodding pathetic stefanski offense.

No qb wants to come play for stefanski.

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Originally Posted by Baker_Dawg
Yeah I wonder if Dak could even put up half the numbers throwing to the Cleveland misfit receivers vs the all star cast he has there. Oline is better in Dallas, way better with the injuries in Cleveland. Zek is at least as good as Chubb and stays healthy more. Dallas plays wide open with a great mine offensive coordinator kellen Moore versus the plodding pathetic stefanski offense.

No qb wants to come play for stefanski.

This is hilarious.

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Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by bonefish
The Watson situation will be interesting to follow.

You are presumed innocent. Before all this he was in good standing within the community. Personally I don't know a thing about his leagl case.

you are "presumed innocent" only in the court of law

At work, in the NFL, within your community, on social media, you are canceled or fired based on their opinions.


Let's not forget the Texans refused to play him (when he is in his prime) and still paid him to be on the roster. That's how guilty they think he is.

Other way around.... Watson refused to play... Texans kept him on the roster because they know they can get something in a trade eventually.... but Watson said last year he was never playing for the Texans again and that was before his legal issues

**Aaron Rodgers said he wanted to be traded too.

Watson was on the non-active roster. If he held out... he wouldn't have shown up to work at all. He still attends meetings. Houston decided to bench him.


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This is all immaterial; Watson, Wilson and I believe Rodgers all have no trade clauses in their contracts. Whether you want to believe it or not, no top tier QB is going to agree to come to Cleveland with the quality of our WR group, the scheme that Stefanski runs, or to throw 30% less passes than the top tier QB's throw or that they normally throw. Those top tier QB's have an ego that allows them to think they should be throwing on every play and the wins go directly through them. Those guys want and expect the offense to be built not only to their skill set but to the players in the skill positions. Stefanski has shown me through his actions that he's either incapable or just basically refuses to adjust his scheme to the situation or his skilled players.

As far as Cousins goes, he's averaging over a 100 more attempts per season since Stefanski left and has Cook, Conklin, Theilen, and Jefferson at the skill positions. He's more than likely getting a new head coach in Minnesota since it's looking like the Vikings have seen enough of Stefanski's mentor. Where's the upside for Cousin's to come to Cleveland? Cousins' $35 million 2022 base salary in the final year of the contract was guaranteed for injury at signing. The $35 million became fully guaranteed this past March 19 on the third day of the 2021 league year. Cousins has the NFL's third-largest 2022 salary cap number at $45,166,668. You think the Browns are going to dump Baker for Cousins contract? Ha ha ha!

Jimmy G, Trubisky, or any of the other retreads that are being mentioned - where's the upside? The 49ers are doing everything they can to sub plant Jimmy G, why? Trubisky, this doesn't even warrant consideration and is freaking a sad state of affairs to anyone thinking that this guy would be an upgrade. To that point, if the Browns are just looking for a body that will silently run Stefanski's scheme and provide no upgrade why don't we just go out and get Darnold, Hill, Brissett, Jones, Cam Newton, Siemian, Glennon, or maybe Lock. These guys are also retread or soon to be retread able body QB's that provide no upside to the Browns.

I guess the question is when the Browns cut bait with Mayfield as many hope and the cheers subside, who's the scapegoat next January when that experiment fails? Then it's rebuild 23.0........................


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Call it whatever you want, but I believe Pelissero (and a long list of others), before MKC.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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It is all about options.

There are none. It is also reported today that Wilson is not going anywhere.

No way Rodgers comes here. He is on target to win the MVP and maybe a Super Bowl. If he decides to continue to play it will be in GB.

Baker is under contract for 2022.

Watson? That is unclear so you have to plan like that.

Finally, all the BS about Stefanski conspiring to get rid of Baker is absurd.

At the same time I seriously doubt that he gets a extension anytime soon. That decision appropriately will come after the season.

So now this off season is about improving the team through free agency and the draft.


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Originally Posted by bonefish


Finally, all the BS about Stefanski conspiring to get rid of Baker is absurd.

At the same time I seriously doubt that he gets a extension anytime soon. That decision appropriately will come after the season.


As we saw with OBJ, if the situation really is THAT bad, then the FO will address it. It's not, so they won't. IPSO facto, MKC is trash.


He has absolutely NOT earned an extension. It'll come down to next year.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Did he earn the extension though the last half of last year?

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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by bonefish
The Watson situation will be interesting to follow.

You are presumed innocent. Before all this he was in good standing within the community. Personally I don't know a thing about his leagl case.

you are "presumed innocent" only in the court of law

At work, in the NFL, within your community, on social media, you are canceled or fired based on their opinions.


Let's not forget the Texans refused to play him (when he is in his prime) and still paid him to be on the roster. That's how guilty they think he is.

Other way around.... Watson refused to play... Texans kept him on the roster because they know they can get something in a trade eventually.... but Watson said last year he was never playing for the Texans again and that was before his legal issues

**Aaron Rodgers said he wanted to be traded too.

Watson was on the non-active roster. If he held out... he wouldn't have shown up to work at all. He still attends meetings. Houston decided to bench him.

Watson wasn't playing for the Texans... believe what you want, but he wasn't playing for them this year...


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I like Baker and hope he heals up and does well for us next year. That being said, I was wondering what anyone thinks of signing Mitch Trubisky as a FA. He has the size and a good arm. Chicago is much like us as far as QB's go and he had a rough time there. Does anyone think that if it's more of the same with Baker, and I hope it's not, that MT would be a good backup plan ?

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Its entirely possible what Mary Kay reported originally was true according to her source, which may or may not have been a team source. It could just as easily have been his agent trying to manipulate the situation towards a resolution, however temporary it may be.

Tuesday, Jan 5, 2022, 7:09PM




Sunday, Jan 9, 2022, 8:21AM


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Originally Posted by Dave

Teams can say whatever they want on January 10th, it doesn’t mean much. If the Chargers call and offer us Herbert for Baker then we won’t be moving forward with Baker. If we fall in love with a rookie and he falls to us in the draft we won’t be moving forward with Baker. If someone calls and offers three first round picks for Baker we won’t be moving forward with Baker.

I keep going back and forth in my head about whether keeping Baker is the right move. Right now I think he can’t find open receivers and we need to move one from him if there is a clear upgrade available to us at a reasonable price. I don’t think that will be available to us. So, begrudgingly, I think we should keep Baker.

In the end I trust Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski to make the most logical choice for the team.

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I agree with this. The situation is fluid.

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Baker was never offered a long term deal. Thats you have to know.
2022 is a prove it year for Baker. If he plays well he will get offered a long term.deal
If he plays average and continues to be turnover king 2022 is his last year
As a Brown.
John Dorsey wet his pants. He couldnt wait to call Mayfield "buddy boy" on draft day
If Berry was GM then he probally drafts Josh Allen

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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Did he earn the extension though the last half of last year?
Obviously not...?

Hitching your wagon to a QB requires more than a good half season. We've seen too much good Baker to move on, and too much bad Baker to give him a 2nd contract.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Did he earn the extension though the last half of last year?
Obviously not...?

Hitching your wagon to a QB requires more than a good half season. We've seen too much good Baker to move on, and too much bad Baker to give him a 2nd contract.

I didn't post that question implying that he DID earn the contract extension after the last half of last year...but I'd bet that he and his camp believed-so.

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Originally Posted by Dave
Its entirely possible what Mary Kay reported originally was true according to her source, which may or may not have been a team source. It could just as easily have been his agent trying to manipulate the situation towards a resolution, however temporary it may be.

Tuesday, Jan 5, 2022, 7:09PM




Sunday, Jan 9, 2022, 8:21AM





looking at the piscs it's another pass that gets batted down ! It's almost like watching a volley ball game

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So assuming that Baker is the guy going forward, as it should be, then what are the plans to upgrade this team for 2022. At TE the assumption is we are weak yet the Browns or Stefanski hasn't done anything to build to their skill sets. If you think it's Njoku, how do you sign him to a contract for over 6 million per year for a resume that shows 146 receptions and 15 TD's in 5-years? If you think it's Hooper, comparing him to Njoku's performance, how do you explain paying Hooper 13.25 million in 2022 when you've cut his targets from 185 targets and 146 receptions for 1,387 yards and 2-Pro Bowl appearances in 2018-2019 to 131 targets (21.1% reduction), 84 receptions (42.5% reduction) and 780 yards (43.8% reduction) during 2020-2021? He's obviously shown that he's a receiving threat at TE - WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

At WR, OBJ is gone under similar circumstances that resulted in Diggs demanding out of Minnesota when Stefanski was the OC there. Landry is scheduled to be paid about 16.6 million in 2022. His level of production has dropped from 287 targets in 2018-2019 with 164 receptions and 2,150 yards and 2-Pro Bowl nods to 180 targets (37.3% reduction) 118 receptions (28.0% reduction) and 1,335 yards (37.9% reduction) and zero Pro Bowls in 2020-2021.

At QB, Baker was in the bottom 30% of the league in attempts and yardage in 2021 and it is the second straight year of reduced attempts and yardage since 2019.

If the Browns or fans for that fact are thinking this can be corrected next year with the addition of FA WR's, you have to share some of that good stuff you're smoking. No player in his right mind would sign on with the Browns current structure after seeing Stefanski's scheme in action and what it did to what many considered the best WR/TE group entering 2020 with a year 3 up and coming QB. The Browns might be playing 4-TE sets next year due to the lack of skill players at the WR position unless there some change quick.


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Now I'm worried we will be looking for a QB.

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Originally Posted by steve0255
At QB, Baker was in the bottom 30% of the league in attempts and yardage in 2021 and it is the second straight year of reduced attempts and yardage since 2019.

We made the playoffs with an 11-5 record last year. So are you trying to indicate the strategy used to accomplish that was wrong? Baker had a torn labrum since week 2, so are you suggesting he should have been passing more this season?

Quote
If the Browns or fans for that fact are thinking this can be corrected next year with the addition of FA WR's, you have to share some of that good stuff you're smoking.

I would rather have some of what you are smoking.

Quote
No player in his right mind would sign on with the Browns current structure after seeing Stefanski's scheme in action and what it did to what many considered the best WR/TE group entering 2020 with a year 3 up and coming QB. The Browns might be playing 4-TE sets next year due to the lack of skill players at the WR position unless there some change quick.

rofl


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
John Dorsey wet his pants. He couldnt wait to call Mayfield "buddy boy" on draft day
If Berry was GM then he probally drafts Josh Allen

In case anyone hadn't noticed, Josh Allen put up a whopping 17.0 QBR against the Falcons last week on 11 for 26 and 3 interceptions
The Falcons have the 28th rated pass defense this year

Just saying


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I just want a QB that can lead a 4th quarter comeback once in awhile.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I just want a QB that can lead a 4th quarter comeback once in awhile.

Too bad it looks like Derek Carr is unavailable.

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Derek Carr is the only QB in the history of the NFL to simultaneously suck and have a number of 4th quarter comebacks to his name.

I personally think Carr is awful.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Derek Carr is the only QB in the history of the NFL to simultaneously suck and have a number of 4th quarter comebacks to his name.

I personally think Carr is awful.

I agree carr is awful but, he is good numbers are good through volume.


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oh Look Landry and Bake are chatting it up on the sideline.

The media needs is terrible in cle


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Originally Posted by Jester
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
John Dorsey wet his pants. He couldnt wait to call Mayfield "buddy boy" on draft day
If Berry was GM then he probally drafts Josh Allen

In case anyone hadn't noticed, Josh Allen put up a whopping 17.0 QBR against the Falcons last week on 11 for 26 and 3 interceptions
The Falcons have the 28th rated pass defense this year

Just saying

When one of The Anointed has a bad game we don't talk about it. If you read the boards, you should know that only Baker makes bad throws, misses open receivers or has games where he sucks. To suggest otherwise will be labelled as making excuses for Baker and blaming everyone else for his poor play. Huntley recently joined the list of The Anointed so if he loses today, we can't mention that either. . . . . . . I kid, but there is a grain of truth there.

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This tells me that people keep missing the point. Everyone has bad games and stats, but the two questions for me are...1) is it consistent and 2) do they also make game winning plays.

Baker is consistently bad and makes nearly zero game winning plays. I believe he's the worst quarterback over the last 4 years in leading game tying/winning drives.

Josh Allen is in the playoffs for the third year in a row and playing for the division today.

He's a much better quarterback than Baker. Take the stats away. What do your eyes tell you?

Better yet. Find 20 NFL fans that you know who are not Browns fans and ask them. I'll bet you $100 it's 20 for 20.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by Dave

Teams can say whatever they want on January 10th, it doesn’t mean much. If the Chargers call and offer us Herbert for Baker then we won’t be moving forward with Baker. If we fall in love with a rookie and he falls to us in the draft we won’t be moving forward with Baker. If someone calls and offers three first round picks for Baker we won’t be moving forward with Baker.

I keep going back and forth in my head about whether keeping Baker is the right move. Right now I think he can’t find open receivers and we need to move one from him if there is a clear upgrade available to us at a reasonable price. I don’t think that will be available to us. So, begrudgingly, I think we should keep Baker.

In the end I trust Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski to make the most logical choice for the team.

Completely agree on all fronts.

If they truly believe this, then I trust their judgement and the injury is a huge factor in their decision making to run with him. If they don't really believe this, of course they need to play the PR game and state this upfront. If a better option becomes available (small chances considering the options) then they can always spin the story here as well. If one doesn't, this report, this early, has the perception of them being on board from Week 18.

I go back and forth too. At times I think it best to look for another option. Other times, I cannot dismiss what good years he's had and chalk up this year solely due to the injury. To a degree, I think the FO feels this way just with more data and internal info we're clearly not privy to.

However, it tough to dismiss the problems that have nothing to do with his injuries.....lack of vision, primarily.

Berry and Stefanski are in a rough spot.


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100% agreed - Baker with a torn Labarum and broken bone and other injuries has definitely been consistently bad. I think we all think he needs to play significantly better than this year. At the same time I also believe it is common for Baker's individual throws/plays to be examined at a level and picked apart and the inference and common statements akin to " Real NFL QB's never miss that throw" as if all other QB's always make that throw - when they absolutely don't, and no-one is breaking down Lamar, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Murray film on their bad throws and decisions.

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