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Originally Posted by jfanent
You need to give it up. Those folks sitting in the stands were working as scouts, not analysts. If I would need a research analyst, I'd hire a computer major from Carnegie Mellon like Dutta before I'd hire a football player.

jfan..you didn't answer the question...one of the new analytics hires made by Depo is Rishav Dutta and what is his background as it relates to football and the Browns?




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jfan..you didn't answer the question..

Oh, the irony.


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And coincidentally, the ad banner at the top of this thread (at least for me) is promoting the 2022 Business Analytics Conference in Houston this April.

#2022Analytics

See you there, mac!


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He'll be the one shouting at everyone at the entrance with a barely intelligible sign protesting analytics.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by WooferDawg
This thread is just plain silly.

[/thread]

If only you knew a person with this kind of power.

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Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by WooferDawg
This thread is just plain silly.

[/thread]

If only you knew a person with this kind of power.
Where's the entertainment value in that?


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by jfanent
You need to give it up. Those folks sitting in the stands were working as scouts, not analysts. If I would need a research analyst, I'd hire a computer major from Carnegie Mellon like Dutta before I'd hire a football player.

jfan..you didn't answer the question...one of the new analytics hires made by Depo is Rishav Dutta and what is his background as it relates to football and the Browns?

I'll answer this question IF you can correctly answer for me PRECISELY what his job responsibilities are and how they mesh with the skill set he possesses.


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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by jfanent
You need to give it up. Those folks sitting in the stands were working as scouts, not analysts. If I would need a research analyst, I'd hire a computer major from Carnegie Mellon like Dutta before I'd hire a football player.

jfan..you didn't answer the question...one of the new analytics hires made by Depo is Rishav Dutta and what is his background as it relates to football and the Browns?

You continually asks baited questions yet refuse to answer any legitimate questions asked of you. You've been doing that since you've been on these forums. If you answer the questions from Purp, cfrs, Peen and myself, I'll answer yours. As of now, your questions don't warrant the effort to make the keystrokes for a reply.


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While I get where you are coming from, just because you played the game does not make one more knowledgeable. There are many coaches who have never played the game, and some that may have played in their youth, but not at a collegiate or professional level. Studying the game, by watching film, following stats, and engaging with coaches and players can give you a large amount of knowledge of the game. Also, these analyst's who become involved with pro sports, must have some deep interest in the game and how it works to even consider taking these positions. Many average everyday fans gather a lot of knowledge of how to play the game, and what it takes to build a team. Heck some fans, even on this board, have had better mock drafts than the professionals who are doing it. Stats are data. Scouting reports are data. Combine reports are data. Even game film can be considered data. These things have always been analyzed by someone, albeit, in different ways. Using computer programs and algorithms, is just a more modern way of doing what has been done for years, but probably in a more efficient and deeper manner.

I don't for one second think Depo and others in his department tell coaches what to do, or what plays to run. I think it is more that they provide information for the GM and coaches to use. If a coach tends to lean completely on their data, that is on him, and the results he gets are from his choices are on him. Many coaches are Ex players, and they are still clueless at times. The good ones use any info or data they can get to help them decide what is best for the team


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https://gocrimson.com/sports/football/roster/paul-depodesta/17602

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But for DePodesta, a native of Alexandria, Va., and a product of Episcopal High, the move is a return to his roots. He had played football since the fifth grade, and he kept playing at Harvard – where he was smart enough to know, as he once recalled, “the sideline was my friend” — even after a shoulder injury forced him to quit baseball.

“As far as I’m concerned, he always was a football guy,” said Harvard football coach Tim Muprhy, for whom DePodesta was a senior back-up wide receiver in 1994. “It just took him 20-plus years to figure it out.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-depodesta-he-was-always-a-football-guy/

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Is Analytics a crutch for those in charge who don't wish to think. To think of a way to be a better football team that wins more without having to have a super advantage in every resource in order to compete.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Is Analytics a crutch for those in charge who don't wish to think.

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[/color]
Originally Posted by THROW LONG
Is Analytics a crutch for those in charge who don't wish to think. To think of a way to be a better football team that wins more without having to have a super advantage in every resource in order to compete.


[color:#FFFFCC]What influence over the Browns football team does the analytics department have under Haslam and Depodesta?

The Browns analytics department answers to NO ONE...they take responsibility FOR NOTHING.

After the successful 2020 season Depodesta added to his department making them #1 in the NFL in terms of numbers. Such an increase in a management should come with expectation...expectations that help the 2020 Browns improve upon their 2020 record...BUT THAT DID NOT HAPPEN..!!

Did the analytics department fail...?

....if the 2021 Browns did not improve upon their record in 2020, it's very difficult for "the analytics group" to claim that they succeeded in whatever their goals were for the 2021 season.

Should the "analytics department" be held responsible for their "failures" in 2021..?

...without knowing what the analytics crew does, it's impossible to assign responsibility for the failures of the 2021 team.

...did the analytics department play a part in game-planning or play selection..?

...did the analytics department play a part in the decision to continue playing an injured QB even though Stefanski had a healthy backup sitting on the bench..?

...did the analytics department play a part on deciding which players played in games, preferring to see players that were drafted by the Depodesta draft team..?

In terms of size (numbers), the Browns now have the largest analytics staff of any NFL franchise under the leadership of Depodesta, and the team regressed in 2021.

How much of the failed performance of the 2021 season should be assigned to the analytics crew..?

YOU TELL ME...




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You have several questions to answer before you start asking more.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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..without knowing what the analytics crew does, it's impossible to assign responsibility for the failures of the 2021 team.

Yet you keep doing just that. rolleyes


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Originally Posted by mac
[/color]
Originally Posted by THROW LONG
Is Analytics a crutch for those in charge who don't wish to think. To think of a way to be a better football team that wins more without having to have a super advantage in every resource in order to compete.


[color:#FFFFCC]What influence over the Browns football team does the analytics department have under Haslam and Depodesta?

The Browns analytics department answers to NO ONE...they take responsibility FOR NOTHING.

After the successful 2020 season Depodesta added to his department making them #1 in the NFL in terms of numbers. Such an increase in a management should come with expectation...expectations that help the 2020 Browns improve upon their 2020 record...BUT THAT DID NOT HAPPEN..!!

Did the analytics department fail...?

....if the 2021 Browns did not improve upon their record in 2020, it's very difficult for "the analytics group" to claim that they succeeded in whatever their goals were for the 2021 season.

Should the "analytics department" be held responsible for their "failures" in 2021..?

...without knowing what the analytics crew does, it's impossible to assign responsibility for the failures of the 2021 team.

...did the analytics department play a part in game-planning or play selection..?

...did the analytics department play a part in the decision to continue playing an injured QB even though Stefanski had a healthy backup sitting on the bench..?

...did the analytics department play a part on deciding which players played in games, preferring to see players that were drafted by the Depodesta draft team..?

In terms of size (numbers), the Browns now have the largest analytics staff of any NFL franchise under the leadership of Depodesta, and the team regressed in 2021.

How much of the failed performance of the 2021 season should be assigned to the analytics crew..?

YOU TELL ME...

Why does this post do nothing more than hurt my eyeballs?


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Are you Lesko?

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Sometimes, if dawgtalkers would have to add one simple phrase,

" I said into a mirror."

to the end of all of the posts that got made, then this place might make a lot more sense.

25% of the time, it would fit perfectly, like a puzzle piece, like it was made for it.

------------------

Analyze that the Browns,,,,, ,,,,,,,, have been trying to figure out this Ole passing game thing, Since OTTO GRAHAM was the quarterback, and haven't won 2 post season games in the same year, in over 6 decades.


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The eyeballs are the last part of the brain to go.

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jc...

I've been reading some really good posts here in Pure Football from some of our fellow DTers who are attempting to point out some of main reasons that the team failed to reach their goals in 2021.

I'm not going to try to recreate those threads here in this discussion concerning the use of analytics..but did realize something that I feel the Browns
are missing if they hope to succeed in the future...

...IT'S LEADERSHIP..!

IMO, the Browns are lacking that one focal point that can be identified as THE LEADER OF THE BROWNS. It's easy to "say" so and so is the leader...but, who within the franchise shows enough leadership to be identified as the franchise leader?




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the Vikings organization, a franchise not known as a NFL leader in the use of "analytics".


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Great way to get a positive return from the analytics department.





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I can't imagine how much it must tear you up inside to see our analytics nerds be in demand for top NFL jobs.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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TWO 3rd round picks??
Woah, I gotta love that!


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Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
TWO 3rd round picks??
Woah, I gotta love that!
Right? A far-cry from the lame "Rooney Rule", an actual reward for employing p.o.c.... not just interviewing them.

A rare win-win from the NFL.


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oobs...Just a guess, but right off the top of your head, can you tell me what Mr Kwesi Adofo-Mensah job was or what his major accomplishment was while in Cleveland since March 2020?

The fact that the Browns look like they might pick up a couple of 3rd round draft picks if the deal goes through...I'm all for that...addition through subtraction.. grin




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Originally Posted by mac
oobs...Just a guess, but right off the top of your head, can you tell me what Mr Kwesi Adofo-Mensah job was or what his major accomplishment was while in Cleveland since March 2020?

Snippets from an article in The Athletic on Kwesi Adofo-Mensah...

During a trip to the scouting combine, Adofo-Mensah rode an elevator with Berry, and the two had a 15-minute conversation, which led to an ongoing relationship. When Berry was named general manager of the Browns in 2020, he hired Adofo-Mensah as his vice president of football operations.

While Adofo-Mensah’s time in the league up to that point had mostly been in analytics, Adofo-Mensah transitioned into more of a traditional front-office job in Cleveland, working on contract negotiations and day-to-day roster construction.


The move gives the Vikings a fresh, young voice at the top of the organization who is analytically inclined, but also someone who gained the respect of football lifers and is willing to lean on the scouting department.

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He's (was) Ops VP. IIRC, that puts him as a decision-maker of day-to-day stuff (roster).

I also know he got hired away by another team to be their GM. Not sure what you're getting at, so I'll guess and then skip to the end. What is it that you know (or more accurately, think you know) about him and our FO that other NFL teams do not?


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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I was just reading an article about 3 worst mistakes the Browns made in 2021 linkand I must say, I nailed 2 out of the 3.

#1 Was playing Mayfield nearly all year...

......THAT WAS DUMB and only got DUMBER once Mayfield injured his left shoulder a second time in the Cards game. Why did the Browns spend $18 mill. to bring Keenum to Cleveland if they had no intention of playing him when the offense needed him? Just who was responsible for making that stupid decisiion?

Surely Stefanski has to take some responsibility..our ace 'analytical' GM Andrew Berry likely had some say..and let us not forget the input from the head of the analytics department..hard to believe Depo wouldn't be involved.

...and don't start with the crap..MAYFIELD WANTED TO PLAY. Most players are going to say they want to play and that they are just fine, ready to play, even though they are injured. That is when someone shows leadership and shuts the injured player down, protecting that player from his own ego and the possibility of further injury.

I will come right out and say it...THE DECISION TO KEEP PLAYING MAYFIELD COST THE TEAM A SHOT AT THE PLAYOFFS AND A POSSIBLE SUPER BOWL.


#2 Not shipping Odell Beckham out as soon as the Browns became aware he wanted traded.

The Browns already knew that Oddie could a disruptive force if he doesn't get his way. Oddie let the Browns management know he wanted out before he had even completed the rehabbed on his knee injury. Obviously the Browns decided to risk the fact that Beckham could be a disruptive force in the locker room and Berry and the Boys decided to risk the disruption not understanding the cancer that can and did result, thanks to the Browns management and their naive attitude toward the entive OBJ situation.



I'll stop here for now...time to eat.





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So, you've analyzed this?

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I don't think ANALYTICS had any bearing in playing Baker, nor "not trading" OBJ.

If it did, you're getting toward the outer extremes of the definition.

Believing Baker would give you a better chance to win was not charted or graphed. The trade value of an injured OBJ was no where near the upside of keeping him. I don't think anybody could have predicted the cartoon-level exit strategy... certainly not a slide rule.

I think the two can be chalked up to "false hopes", and at the end of the season, 31 of 32 teams can certainly make their list of them.


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I read the article in the link mac provided that was written by a Browns fan.

The author's third biggest gripe was the Browns punting in the Raiders game to give them the ball back. He then goes on to write...

After quickly moving the ball downfield, Daniel Carlson nailed a 48-yard field goal as time expired.

It’s a sequence that Kevin Stefanski should justifiably be ripped for.


Stefanski did not even coach in this game, he was out with Covid and Preifer was the acting HC. What a dummy.

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Originally Posted by FATE
I don't think ANALYTICS had any bearing in playing Baker, nor "not trading" OBJ.

If it did, you're getting toward the outer extremes of the definition.

Believing Baker would give you a better chance to win was not charted or graphed. The trade value of an injured OBJ was no where near the upside of keeping him. I don't think anybody could have predicted the cartoon-level exit strategy... certainly not a slide rule.

I think the two can be chalked up to "false hopes", and at the end of the season, 31 of 32 teams can certainly make their list of them.

fate...I'm not one who puts a lot of stock in charts and graphs to making some common sense judgments dealing with some football matters...such as playing an injured QB when you have a healthy QB sitting on the bench...or dealing with a malcontent veteran WR who has a history of making sure his problems affect everyone in the locker room.

Some of those who deal with analytical charts and graphs to help them define problem areas seem to lack the basic common sense to understand football matters described here.

The two issues I mention could have been handled much better than they were by "those in charge"...and those in charge seem to rely heavily on analytics, charts and graphs to help them make common sense football decisions...jmho




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Fate nailed it with his first sentence of the post you responded to... the issues you are railing against were non Analytics related. Baker playing hurt isn't an analytics issue. Trading OBJ wasn't an analytics issue. You might want to try and make it an analytics issue because of the axe you are trying to grind ... but that don't make it so.


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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by FATE
I don't think ANALYTICS had any bearing in playing Baker, nor "not trading" OBJ.

If it did, you're getting toward the outer extremes of the definition.

Believing Baker would give you a better chance to win was not charted or graphed. The trade value of an injured OBJ was no where near the upside of keeping him. I don't think anybody could have predicted the cartoon-level exit strategy... certainly not a slide rule.

I think the two can be chalked up to "false hopes", and at the end of the season, 31 of 32 teams can certainly make their list of them.

fate...I'm not one who puts a lot of stock in charts and graphs to making some common sense judgments dealing with some football matters...such as playing an injured QB when you have a healthy QB sitting on the bench...or dealing with a malcontent veteran WR who has a history of making sure his problems affect everyone in the locker room.

Some of those who deal with analytical charts and graphs to help them define problem areas seem to lack the basic common sense to understand football matters described here.

The two issues I mention could have been handled much better than they were by "those in charge"...and those in charge seem to rely heavily on analytics, charts and graphs to help them make common sense football decisions...jmho
But that's like saying Baker sucks because he spends too much time making commercials. You're saying they're too wrapped up in analytics to make common sense decisions when one has nothing to do with the other.


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Our coach makes the decisions on who plays and who doesn't.


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I just wanna say that in 4 pages of this nonsense, you've been able to clearly and succinctly explain what we're all trying to say, in a tenth of the time, while giving many a chuckle.

I tip my hat.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...leveland-browns-andrew-berry/9236148002/

In his introductory press conference with the Minnesota Vikings Thursday, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah had a message for Northeast Ohio fans as he praised his mentor, Browns General Manager Andrew Berry.

“Cleveland, you have a rock star in that seat. Please appreciate him,” Adofo-Mensah said.


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So you finally found something another fan wrote and are trying to say that makes your point?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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