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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
In addition to all the numbers I compared between Jacoby and Baker, there is this from PFF.

Jacoby is ranked 3rd overall at 78.7

Baker is ranked 32nd out of 33 at 43.3

And their offensive lines are almost identical.



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For a few that think there's a possibility, lets not use our team as an example since that brings emotion into it and can cloud things.

You are in the same scenario (backup is starting, starter is out for extended games), and the back up plays solid
Do you keep starting (when the starter comes back):

Case Keenum over Josh Allen?
Cooper Rush over Dak Prescott?
Jordan Love over Aaron Rogers?
Chad Heene over Patrick Mahomes?
Chase Daniel over Justin Herbert?
Brandon Allen over Joe Burrow?
Mike White over Joe Flacco? (ok, we all this one is true)

If your response is: well obviously I am going to go with those franchise QBs no matter how the backup plays....then, there's your answer to the JB vs DW question.

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Wasn't Brady winning games and NE playing well when Bledsoe was healed up and ready to go, and they stayed with the winning hand?


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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My main concern is we dont know how Watson will play. After 2 years he is an unknown.



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I don't remember his age, but Brady was around 23ish and a rookie. Jacoby isn't a rookie or second year player in his early 20s. There are other differences, too.

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Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
For a few that think there's a possibility, lets not use our team as an example since that brings emotion into it and can cloud things.

You are in the same scenario (backup is starting, starter is out for extended games), and the back up plays solid
Do you keep starting (when the starter comes back):

Case Keenum over Josh Allen?
Cooper Rush over Dak Prescott?
Jordan Love over Aaron Rogers?
Chad Heene over Patrick Mahomes?
Chase Daniel over Justin Herbert?
Brandon Allen over Joe Burrow?
Mike White over Joe Flacco? (ok, we all this one is true)

If your response is: well obviously I am going to go with those franchise QBs no matter how the backup plays....then, there's your answer to the JB vs DW question.

Yep. To quote Dean Wormer, the chance that Brissett Wally Pipp's Watson is "zero point zero."

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The question of rust has come up a bunch.

I have tried to work through that by mostly experience.

Watson was at every off season work out. He went through training camp and pre-season.

Watson training Plan:

"That plan will be enacted this week by Avery and Watson who, for the time being, and until Watson’s allowed in the building, won’t be allowed to have contact with Browns coaches or anyone else with the team. As I’ve heard it, Watson and Avery will conduct sessions to include field drills, film and board work four days per week, and that’ll go for the next five weeks, with Watson allowed to return to the Browns’ practice facility Oct. 10, and begin practicing five weeks after that Nov. 14, ahead of his Dec. 4 return to the game field.

At least on paper, that looks like plenty of time for Watson to get reacclimated, though it’s fair to ask how rusty he’ll look after about 23 months without playing in a real NFL game.

The concept of rust is an interesting conversation regarding a football player, especially for a position that doesn't inherently involve contact. Maybe Watson will have some nerves in returning that will not be resolved until he takes a real shot, but that position doesn't need traditional hitting the way a running back or defensive end would to get acclimated to the game.

A quarterback can be quite sharp, because so much of the work he will be doing with his personal quarterback coach Quincy Avery will keep his throwing mechanics in peak form. The ball should come out of his hand cleanly and on the mark in terms of his accuracy and velocity.


Ideally, he'd be able to work at least 7-on-7 to keep his reads sharp, but that's not realistic. Nevertheless, the real issue for Watson coming back isn't likely to be how he's throwing the ball. It's more in terms of chemistry.

How much practice time do the Browns really want to invest in getting Watson acclimated when he's in the building as they attempt to win games with Jacoby Brissett? It's not likely to be much if any.

How much additional time are receivers and tight ends going to put in beyond their normal week to get Watson ready? The Browns may be counting on this because like it or not, most of the wide receivers on this team are auditioning for 2023, so there is a major incentive for putting in extra work with Watson as a way to secure a roster spot on the team next year.

The biggest X-factor with Watson is his mental fitness. It's not going to be easy to walk into what could be the most hostile environment he will ever play, in the stadium and against the team that drafted him when the Browns travel to play the Houston Texans. He's never been hated his entire career. That could be jarring.

How much has this entire process weighed on Watson? It's anyone's guess how that part will impact Watson and his play.

It's unlikely the Browns will be firing on all cylinders when Watson takes the field, because there will be a feeling out process that will be termed 'rust' when it comes to Watson, but it has more to do with getting accustomed to teammates in live games as opposed to Watson simply trying to learn to ride a bike again. He's been practicing football for months and isn't going to stop during his suspension."


Watson will be able to study in depth the teams he will face. He will be in excellent condition. He will be motivated.

He will have time to practice and get the timing with receivers.

I think the rust is more mental. More of getting to game speed. Seeing the rush.

I don't think it will take long. His mind and reflexes are those of a professional athlete. I would say by his third game he will be the same guy he was.

The first game a bit jittery. The second game slowing things down. Third game ready.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
In addition to all the numbers I compared between Jacoby and Baker, there is this from PFF.

Jacoby is ranked 3rd overall at 78.7

Baker is ranked 32nd out of 33 at 43.3

You just can't help yourself can you?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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j/c:

I get the talk regarding Watson vs Jacoby, but Watson won't be back until week 12. I'd rather [as a fan] just enjoy what Jacoby is doing for the team right now. I also want to reiterate that I think Stefanski deserves a lot of credit. The guy has endured unfair criticism from a certain portion of the fanbase who have attempted to blame him for the failure of another, but Stefanski is a very good coach. His scheme is qb friendly and he gets the most out of his qbs.

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j/c

Nobody knows where the Browns will be when game 12 arrives. Jacoby is playing much better than the vast majority of us ever could have imagined. All you have to base your guess on how a QB will perform is his past performances and Jacoby has shredded that. It's hard to bench a QB who is winning. Not so hard to bench a QB with average results. So where the Browns stand at week 12 I think will be pivotal. There are pluses and minuses to naming the starting QB if the team is winning.

By week 12 there will, and already is to a great extent some chemistry built in the offense. Trying to reestablish that by putting in a new QB is a risky proposition. Nobody can say for sure how watson would perform with almost two years of rust. But it would seem reasonable to expect that rust to be there. So if Brissett is playing at the level he is now, it would be a very risky to bench him for a QB who hasn't seen game action in almost two seasons.

But do they have a choice? I mean watson literally is the 230 mil. dollar man. This season does count against his contract. Then one would have to ask if this coaching staff and FO believes Jacoby can take the Browns to, and have a chance to win the SB? As much as posters mention making the playoffs, they didn't sign watson to that huge contract just to make the playoffs. They did it to win SB's. So IF you think watson will be rusty, IF you think he will need time to get "back to his old self" and IF you don't think Jacoby can win you a SB, why would you wait until next season to go through that process? If you don't believe Brissett can win you the SB, you pretty much have to start watson in week 12. Get the rust out of the way. Get everyone on the same page and build some chemistry going into next season. Get the painful part over with.

Some fans would call that giving up the season. But winning the SB is the ultimate goal of every season. Peen has been saying that ever since I can remember. So you could see replacing Brissett with watson as risking giving up the season or you could see it as investing the end of this season into achieving your ultimate goal. But even at that, if watson can get a few games under his belt and he gets back to his old self quickly, it could be the only chance the Browns have of winning a SB this year.

If watson needs time to adjust back to game speed and build chemistry in this offense, why would you wait to go through that process if you don't believe Jacoby can win you a SB? I have no idea if this coaching staff and FO thinks Jacoby can lead this team to a SB. I know with what they paid watson they believe he can. So to me the decision to start watson even if Jacoby is winning will hinge on that.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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j/c...


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All of this conversation is 100% speculation, obviously.

Three things that I think are guard rails in the decision-making process for week 12...

The largest (by far) factor in the QB decision is based on record and standing within division. 7-4 and within a game of the division lead is mandatory minimum for Brissett to keep the job. Anything less, Watson is immediately penciled in.

Next influencing factor comes into play if the ^above^ criteria has been met...

Brisset's performance; particularly in the previous three games. If he is still playing efficiently, has not cost us games, is not making stupid decisions and is healthy? He has probably earned his right to continue as the starter. His teammates (including Deshaun Watson) would agree.

Lastly, the look and efficiency of our offense overall. If we're getting by on guts on plenty of good luck in a sometimes anemic offense, I'm sure the consensus would be that Watson makes us better... immediately. And the variables therein could probably even trump the first two factors.


Fun exercise in nothingness as there are many, many mitigating factors that would make the entire conversation null and void. But the conversation itself is another tip of the cap to Brissett... and there would be nothing better than arguing over starting QB come week 12.


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I think anything better than 6 and 5. Which at this point is 4 and 4 in the next 8 games would warrant keeping JB under center longer and bringing Watson along slower. I think when your starting the first 11 games of the season the team is yours in 2022. At 6 and 5 or worse you give Deshawn a chance to take the team to the playoffs. 6 and 5 would be a game over .500 and that is what you want your back up to do. Play just better than .500 and keep the team in the conversation. 7 and 4 or better would probably have the team contending in the division if not out right leading. The Bengals and Steelers would have to go 6 and 2 to be 7 and 4. The Ravens 5 and 3 to be 7 and 4.


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j/c

I could get into more in-depth with many things, but two basic ways DW helps us even if he is rusty.

1. His legs - one of the reasons he was dangerous since he entered the league is his threat to run. That takes pressure off of the receivers/TEs/RBs as they have to account for DWs running ability. As for the past 3 games, we have seen Brissett take off a couple times. Now imagine those scrambles with a QB that has more speed and agility.

2. Deep balls - With Brissett the offense is tailored mostly around short to medium routes. Brissett isn't known for his deep passing due to an average to above average arm with average deep ball accuracy ( i am not 100% on his deep ball accuracy). BW is known to have a strong arm and in the past has thrown a beautiful deep ball. Now even if he is "rusty" when he comes back, he is still is a bigger threat to throw that deep ball. Now combine the excellent play designs/route trees by Stef and the threat of DW running, this will change the whole dynamic of how teams will defend us (i.e. stacking the box, as they have done with Brissett). In turn, this should benefit our running game too.

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I hear ya.

I have seen it in baseball and football before when this type of thing has come up.

We can have our opinions and that is all good. But from what I have seen the job goes back to the starter.

Stefanski IMO has the pulse of the Browns. He is a good HC and knows the team. He will make the call and I will back him.

One thing I have learned about professional sports is the vast amount of information coaches have. We think we know. They know.

They know their players. They know how the team relates to each other. They live it. It is fun to second guess decisions. That is what fans do.

Guys like Stefanski or Tito or Brian Snitker of the Braves. They can be wrong that is sports but their decisions are based upon the very best of information available.

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Fate,

I understand your reasoning. Those are things to consider too.

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Originally Posted by bonefish

But from what I have seen the job goes back to the starter.


He has never been our starter



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No doubt. And above all of the conjecture is that fact that we will have six full weeks to judge Deshaun's "rust" ahead of week 12. He'll actually be back with the club two weeks from today. He's obviously a superior QB. I'm sure that will pass the eye test on the practice field.

Also of note... Brissett was signed a day after Watson to fill a specific need. Being the professional that he is (and realizing the upside of putting out good tape for a future contract), I suspect that he'll be a cheerleader for Watson's progress and let everyone know that this is Deshaun's team.

It would take an incredible performance and a great W/L record to turn those tables easily.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...


Thanks for sharing. I encourage others to read the accompanying article. Football talk at it's finest.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by ScottPlayersFacemask
For a few that think there's a possibility, lets not use our team as an example since that brings emotion into it and can cloud things.

You are in the same scenario (backup is starting, starter is out for extended games), and the back up plays solid
Do you keep starting (when the starter comes back):

Case Keenum over Josh Allen?
Cooper Rush over Dak Prescott?
Jordan Love over Aaron Rogers?
Chad Heene over Patrick Mahomes?
Chase Daniel over Justin Herbert?
Brandon Allen over Joe Burrow?
Mike White over Joe Flacco? (ok, we all this one is true)

If your response is: well obviously I am going to go with those franchise QBs no matter how the backup plays....then, there's your answer to the JB vs DW question.

Yep. To quote Dean Wormer, the chance that Brissett Wally Pipp's Watson is "zero point zero."

Don't you go besmirching Bluto's GPA, I won't stand for it.

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He is the starter. He was named the starter in camp. He got the first team reps.

Come on I know you know better.

When you make a trade like that which was made. And pay the the guy $230m guaranteed. He is the starter.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...



ooooh Milk you are awesome! Thank you for posting this article. I love it. I didn't get a chance to read it earlier, as i was playing GI Joe at work. This empty back set was brought up last year and I added an article and talked about the why of the empty backs. This article taught me even more about of the basics I read before.

So I will add a few extra comments.

Like they said, it is a great indicator for pre-snaps.

- The basic concept of the empty look is quick short to medium passes, the obvious reason for this is because if a blocker misses his assignment there isn't a RB/FB to provide that second level of pass protection.

- In years past, the blitz rate by a defense in empty is a lot less than a normal formation (example: a couple years ago the blitz rate was 22% in empty compared to 30% in non-empty). Which can be understandable as the QB has an idea if the D is in man or zone and also they can see the possible mismatches before the snap. Like i said before, the basic concept is quick short to medium passes so the ball "should" be out before the rush comes. So if you have a QB that is bad a post-snap reads this formation is beneficial to assist the QB to make the correct passes (or at least a higher chance) as long as they can read the pre-snap and the mismatches.

- The empty set was one of the bread and butter formations for Drew Brees. Also, Lamar Jackson has been deadly in this formation. The reason being his speed. So the defense is spread out, this gives the opportunity of the offense to have their routes run a little deeper. This is because Lamar is a threat to run. They substitute the short quick passes and replace that area of the field with the legs of Lamar. Having the routes deeper will open up the lane/running room if he doesn't have an open receiver.

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Originally Posted by bonefish
No sense in argument with a 2-1 record.

Because the future in untold.

When Watson returns. He will play. IMO.

When Watson returns I believe he must practice two more weeks so that actually it will be week game 13 that he will be eligible to play for us something with rules coming back from suspension. If I am wrong please correct me thank you in advance.


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Quote
Deshaun Watson's Plan to Stay Sharp During Suspension, the Concept of Rust


Albert Breer of theMMQB laid out how Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson plans to stay sharp as he serves his suspension for the first 11 games of the 2022 season.
PETE SMITHSEP 11, 2022 10:41 AM EDT

Cleveland Browns quarterback will be eligible to return to the team's facility as of October 10th as he serves his 11-game suspension. TheMMQB's Albert Breer laid out the plan for Watson to stay prepared for his eventual return.

Deshaun Watson will start working this week toward Week 13. My understanding is that ahead of Watson’s suspension, Browns coach Kevin Stefanski, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt and quarterbacks coach Drew Petzing worked with Watson’s throwing coach, Quincy Avery, to come up with an individualized plan, and throwing scripts, to keep Watson sharp while he’s away from the team.

That plan will be enacted this week by Avery and Watson who, for the time being, and until Watson’s allowed in the building, won’t be allowed to have contact with Browns coaches or anyone else with the team. As I’ve heard it, Watson and Avery will conduct sessions to include field drills, film and board work four days per week, and that’ll go for the next five weeks, with Watson allowed to return to the Browns’ practice facility Oct. 10, and begin practicing five weeks after that Nov. 14, ahead of his Dec. 4 return to the game field.

At least on paper, that looks like plenty of time for Watson to get reacclimated, though it’s fair to ask how rusty he’ll look after about 23 months without playing in a real NFL game.


The concept of rust is an interesting conversation regarding a football player, especially for a position that doesn't inherently involve contact. Maybe Watson will have some nerves in returning that will not be resolved until he takes a real shot, but that position doesn't need traditional hitting the way a running back or defensive end would to get acclimated to the game.

A quarterback can be quite sharp, because so much of the work he will be doing with his personal quarterback coach Quincy Avery will keep his throwing mechanics in peak form. The ball should come out of his hand cleanly and on the mark in terms of his accuracy and velocity.

Ideally, he'd be able to work at least 7-on-7 to keep his reads sharp, but that's not realistic. Nevertheless, the real issue for Watson coming back isn't likely to be how he's throwing the ball. It's more in terms of chemistry.

How much practice time do the Browns really want to invest in getting Watson acclimated when he's in the building as they attempt to win games with Jacoby Brissett? It's not likely to be much if any.

How much additional time are receivers and tight ends going to put in beyond their normal week to get Watson ready? The Browns may be counting on this because like it or not, most of the wide receivers on this team are auditioning for 2023, so there is a major incentive for putting in extra work with Watson as a way to secure a roster spot on the team next year.


The biggest X-factor with Watson is his mental fitness. It's not going to be easy to walk into what could be the most hostile environment he will ever play, in the stadium and against the team that drafted him when the Browns travel to play the Houston Texans. He's never been hated his entire career. That could be jarring.

How much has this entire process weighed on Watson? It's anyone's guess how that part will impact Watson and his play.

It's unlikely the Browns will be firing on all cylinders when Watson takes the field, because there will be a feeling out process that will be termed 'rust' when it comes to Watson, but it has more to do with getting accustomed to teammates in live games as opposed to Watson simply trying to learn to ride a bike again. He's been practicing football for months and isn't going to stop during his suspension.

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/deshaun-watsons-suspension-plan#:~:text=Albert%20Breer%20of%20theMMQB%20laid,games%20of%20the%202022%20season.&text=Cleveland%20Browns%20quarterback%20will%20be,serves%20his%2011%2Dgame%20suspension.

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Comparing tossing around a football confused with actual game play is something I think everyone knows isn't the same thing.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I'm a bit concerned about how he will play, but much more concerned that he will not be reinstated. Happily, this past week there wasn't as much talking head tape ponding him again.


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[duplicate post]


"too many notes, not enough music-"
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This, from your link, is what I'm trying to ready myself for.


Quote
It's unlikely the Browns will be firing on all cylinders when Watson takes the field, because there will be a feeling out process that will be termed 'rust' when it comes to Watson, but it has more to do with getting accustomed to teammates in live games as opposed to Watson simply trying to learn to ride a bike again.


The "rust" issue (from my pov) will have less to do with DW not having his skill set. The "rust" will be on-field chemistry. Receivers will have spent 11 games building a simpatico with Jacoby that only comes from playing in real games. They will know how, when and where he delivers that ball. Their 'internal clocks' will tell them when to expect a JB delivery on a precise timing route. They will know the angle, speed and velocity of a JB pass in almost every setting. Because: training camp, and 2/3 of an NFL regular season together.

It is going to be a challenge for these guys to adjust to a completely different set of "pitch & catch" parameters. All of DW's passes are going to arrive differently than what they've experienced for more than half a season and most of training camp. Having said that, I feel the need to explain that I see DW as an upgrade over JB (and 75% of NFL starters), and I don't doubt his ability to play the game. He will make this team better, no doubt. I just don't expect an instant 'nitrous-dump' during Deshawn's first 2 games. In fact, I'm preparing myself for CLE to go 1-1 or even 0-2 in his first 2 starts.

And it won't be because DW now sucks after almost 2 years off the field. And it won't be because CLE's WR room all of a sudden forgot how to play on Sunday.
It's because this game is measured in millimeters and microseconds. And it's going to take time for this O to work those new wrinkles out. In the heat of the last 1/3 of the season, it couldn't come at a worse time. It's that point in the season when playoff teams establish themselves. Every game counts- and each one, more every week.

I can't help seeing DW's re-introduction as anything but dicey (for at least a couple games), especially if this current team can post a ~.666 record by the time he comes in. It will be a Jacoby team learning how to be a Deshawn team... on Sundays. Practice ain't games- and only games prepare players for their upcoming games.

Maybe it's just my lingering 'Battered Dawg Syndrome' hanging around my neck, but I'm telling you: the better Jacoby does right now, the dicier this transition will be. I predict that DW won't simply be 'plug&play'... and that the speed bumps we'll inevitably see will be more consequential than if we'd seen them in Games 1-3 with DW on the field. This 11-game suspension is potentially more consequential/damaging than I think many Dawgs are considering.

Dawg- I'm just getting ready for what's possible. If the division is tight (...and let's face it- The League has engineered it to be the norm), any blip on any team could upset the standings in one or two weeks. We see it all the time.

I'm insanely optimistic about a #4-led team, but how they gonna re-make themselves Nov-Dec of 2022 enough to run the table?
I see a next year lock, with a near-miss this year.
Can't help myself.

Make me reconsider. I challenge you. I need this.
wink


p.s. feel free to do it in a PM, if you think it would derail the thread. This has been a good few pages to read/enjoy.


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No doubt there will be timing issues.

As was stated, much will depend on how much time Watson gets with the receivers while he can practice with them before he is eligible to play in games. I suspect the players will spend the extra time after practice to get a feel for the timing.

That said, it will take time. My guess is Watson will come out and look a lot like Jacoby. Ball control passes, the team running the ball. It will be important for the team to call the O much the same as they now do with Jacoby. I don't want to say a dumbed down O because that isn't giving Jacoby any credit. He is far from needing a dumbed down O. It's just a O crafted to his skills. I think we will continue to operate in that manner....and why not? It is a winning formula. Any problems we have had haven't been on the offensive side of the ball.

Even next year, with the backs we have and the hogs we have up front, we may still be a ground game centered attack and less the "Air Coryell" that might have been imagined when we made this move.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Your point is well taken.

DW has been with the team since early spring. He has had plenty of reps in the bank.

He will get 3 weeks of practice before his first game. However, just like Jacoby in his first game. Jitters. Getting your mental timing of the speed rush and processing speed. That is something that is individual.

Everything amps up a notch. That fine tuning with the receivers in a live game. That has to happen on it's own.

I don't think it will take to long and as each week passes he will get more comfortable.

I think it is up to KS to read his team. Kevin is the guy who lives it all daily. This where we as fans have to give in to the locker room and the people in it.

My experience in coaching taught me trust the pros. These coaches are so locked in to detail. They have educated eyes and intuition. Many are quick to criticise coaches when they don't know a fraction of what these guys know.

I have to trust Kevin and his staff. I believe in them especially Kevin and AVP on offense.

The last thing is Deshaun Watson. IMO he is a really good quarterback. He has no limitations on a football field. None. He possesses every attribute you look for in a quarterback. He has all the athletic skill required. But he also has the will to win.

He is one of few who can and will take over a game. He can do it with arm, legs, and will. He plays unafraid.

So, put your mind at ease and let this fall into a natural transition.


Last edited by bonefish; 09/29/22 07:48 AM.
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Make me reconsider. I challenge you. I need this.

You bring up a valid point of concern when questioning that there is bound to be rust in regards to the on-field chemistry between Watson and his receivers. I won't make you try to reconsider, but perhaps you have not considered this. Watson is going to be allowed to start practicing w/the team on Nov. 14. His first game back is December 4th. That is 3 full weeks of practice. Of course, he won't receive the majority of reps because we still have to play games in that three week stretch w/Jacoby as our QB. During TC, I said it was important for Watson to develop some chemistry w/his receivers during that camp. There were some guys battling injuries for awhile, but they did all see time together.

I agree w/you that there is bound to be some rust w/his receivers when he returns. However, it is not like he just walks in and starts playing games w/out any practice reps. I'm sure that Stefanski will have a plan to incorporate both QBs getting time w/the receivers. Our coach is a very intelligent man and we are fortunate to have him. I don't think this is a year where we challenge for the Super Bowl. I do maintain my prediction of us winning 8-10 games this year which is quite a bit better than all the doom and gloom forecasts we have seen. Next year should be our year, but I'm going to enjoy this year as it unfolds because we have an addition by subtraction and this team is going to play sound, smart, tough football on the offensive side of the ball. I believe this team has adopted the "us against the world" mentality and it's not manufactured. They really believe it and are going to fun to watch.

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Every season in football is unique.

A team can start off on fire and win 10 straight then fall apart. Other years a team struggles early and then takes off.

A huge factor is the health of the team and the quality of depth.

I have no predictions. Just play the schedule see what happens. I took a shot for grins and said 9 to 11. But it means nothing.

Already this season predicted power house teams are struggling. So, I don't have a clue.

We have enough talent on the team and with Jacoby playing well. I feel like we can be in every game we play.

After that I hope we can make those few plays that determine the outcome.

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Nothing substitutes actual game speed and game time reactions. Nothing. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. If a QB is returning to action with a team he has played with for some time in actual games it helps. But on a new team with an entire new roster having never played actual games in real time, it takes games to get some chemistry going. Practice doesn't do that. Even preseason doesn't do that. How many times have you watched teams with a new QB come out looking flat at the beginning of the NFL regular season? And we're talking about a QB who will not have played in an actual NFL game in almost two seasons.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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As promised, here are the up to date numbers for Jacoby vs Baker after all the BS that occurred earlier in this thread.

QBR: JB at 61.4 [9th overall. BM at 15.4 [32nd overall.]

Rating: JB 87.1. BM 75.

TD: JB and BM both w/4.

Int: JB w/2. BM w/3.

Sacks: JB @ 5. BM @ 11.

Comp. %: JB at 64.6. BM at 54.7.

I will post their PFF grades once they are updated.

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I thought Brissett had some poor moments yesterday for the first time since week 1 … him not hitting on some screens killed us (and they were open) but he just hesitated). And his play on the goal line and the last two minutes wasn’t good.

But he’s played admirably for us and isn’t why we lost of course


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I thought Brissett had some poor moments yesterday for the first time since week 1 … him not hitting on some screens killed us (and they were open) but he just hesitated). And his play on the goal line and the last two minutes wasn’t good.

But he’s played admirably for us and isn’t why we lost of course

No, he wasn't why we lost. But he did play more as expected, which in its own way is concerning after he's been killing it. Yesterday he played like an average to better backup QB.


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jc

ASKING EVERYONE: What the hell does Baker have to do with us losing or winning at this point? Some of you guys need to move on. Baker lost yesterday and has looked awful in Carolina. What does that have to do with us? We're still losers that can't finish or play a whole game consistently and that has zero to do with Baker.


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As promised.......After 4 weeks, Jacoby has a PFF grade of 77.6, which is good for 6th in the league. Baker's PFF grade is at 46.4, which ranks 33rd out of 33 graded QBs.

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It doesn't. If anyone wants to check and see how he's doing (like me) that's fine. Posting it is another matter. I won't. He's not here anymore and I wished him well unless he's playing us.

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ASKING EVERYONE: What the hell does Baker have to do with us losing or winning at this point?

Baker has absolutely nothing to do with the Browns winning or losing...

Hell, our own QBs have enough problems producing wins without pretending that Baker has anything to do with the Browns...lol.




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