There is a track record on Jacoby. He played for Belichick. His stats are available.
However, this is 2022 and this is a different place and time. The Browns went after Jacoby. They brought him in for reasons. One thing that is constant when you hear from others regarding Jacoby is calm leadership. Smart guy who is comfortable with who he is. Browns teammates all seem to believe in him.
I don't think it is bs that he popular within the team.
He has been a career backup. There are reasons for that. He has skills but he also has limitations. He is not an aggressive throw vertical passer who will take over a game. He should not be expected to stand in the pocket on long developing routes. He is not a guy who if down 14+ is going to pull you back into a game on his own.
He is going to play eleven games. What can we honestly expect from Jacoby within the Browns offense?
It could be a grind to score. We have tools that should help. Obviously, you start up front. We have a deep and talented offensive line. That is a great benefit to any quarterback. If you can protect a guy and keep pressure away. Every quarterback in the league plays better with good protection.
We have IMO the best running backs in football bar none. We also have the line to open holes for them. So that is a factor that will help a guy like Jacoby.
Cooper. He is a big add because he is a proven pro. Great route runner and very reliable. DPJ is no longer in the development stage. He should be ready to take on a bigger role. Bell is a rookie. However, his maturity has a receiver has been evident in camp. Schwatrz has struggled no doubt but the staff backs him. We shall see. TE. Addition by subtraction. Hooper had to go to get more touches for Njoku and Bryant. Both should benefit.
Felton and Hunt. Running back receivers. IMO both are going to be used. And used more than before. They will be part of the plan to get the ball out quickly for Jacoby.
So, that is our offense. What can we expect for eleven games. Given the schedule. I am hoping for six or more wins. I believe six is realistic. Not easy but I think we can do it. If he were to win seven we should all be very happy. If he wins five. It would be ok. Less than five not to good.
I tend to be optimistic because I need to be. I want to believe and see no reason not to. I have seen bad. 1-31 was as bad as it can get. I was not optimistic during those dark times. But we are not in those dark days. This team can win.
So let's go Browns.
i think putting him in the same position that Reich put him in with the Colts is the most ideal. obviously there's gonna be a point where Jacoby is gonna be forced to make throws to keep pace with an opposing offense, and there's no way to avoid that. but we need to reduce the chances of that happening as much as possible by being as dynamic in the run game as possible.
I think Stefanski will be able to get the most out of Jacoby, as he's really the kind of QB that benefits the most out of our offensive scheme. Jacoby isn't a bum, and he has the arm strength to make most of the throws, especially the routine ones. however, we REALLY need to see an increase of Chubb and Hunt on the field together in order to keep Jacoby as confident as possible.
the 1st 11 games need to be TE heavy, which means we need Njoku and Bryant to really step it up this year. Jacoby can thrive in a methodical style offense such as ours, so i expect a lot of passes behind the LoS, maybe 5-7 yards down field.
What I am counting on is what I perceive is the strength of the team and that is the defense.
It took half a year last year to get all the new defensive players in tune. We added like 8 guys. In the second half they began to play well.
I love the secondary. We are deep and talented. Lot of guys that can be moved like chess pieces. That was the vision long and fast.
Some don't like the linebackers. I do. Walker was brought back for a reason. As most know I am a JOK guy. I also have seen some good things from Jacob Phillips. Taki has developed IMO. He is a good run defender and has done ok in coverage. For the scheme they are a sound unit. JOK is a potential game changer.
The front has edge rushers. We know Myles and Clowney. Wright and Winovich show promise as rotation guys to keep the big guys fresh.
We all know the concerns at DT. What we don't know is how Bryan and Elliott will really do. Togiai and Winfrey are unproven and will struggle at times for sure.
The emphasis in camp has been turnovers and I believe we can expect an improvement there. That stat could really help Jacoby.
So I am ready and hopeful.
Not much in terms of expectations for me. He’s not good at really anything. I think he’ll protect the ball decently, but we won’t make big plays in the passing game.
He’s going to have a very low ceiling.
Expectations........ none.
And that's not a good or bad thing.
Got to see him play one game in a Browns uniform first.
I guess I'll have expectations for him after this Sunday.
I tried to break down what I saw from his stats from the 2 years he was the starter in Indy in another prediction thread. Here are the takeaways I had.
He took a ton of sacks the first year he ended up being the starter (when Luck was hurt), but then cut that sack total almost in half the second year he started (when Luck retired). I looked at the Oline and they were ranked 25th that first year and 3rd the other year.
His INT totals were consistent and fairly low for those 2 years. His stat line does NOT describe a QB that makes many aggressive/careless throws. His TD totals for both years aren't anything to write home about, and were somewhat consistent.
His total yardage, completion%, and overall rating were all pretty 'meh'. His stat line gave me a very "could be better, could be worse" feeling. I think as long as he isn't being tasked with chucking the ball all over the field then we should be fine.
I agree. I'm expecting a lot of short throws, balanced offense that tries to eat clock to keep scoring low knowing the offense (w/ Brissett) is not capable of shootouts. The offense will likely average around 17ppg.
From Nate Silver's the FiveThirtyEight...
Jacoby can make throws with a lead. That's the key.
When he will be forced to make up deficits is when
Things will go south for the offense
I think what he could be is what Baker did best when he played well. A game manager that spreads the ball around in the short to intermediate passing game. When Baker got in trouble it was when he thought he was Brett Farve and tried to push the ball down field and turned the ball over. I think Brissett will move the chains with short and intermediate throws. Allow the run game and ball control offense dictate tempo and control the game. When he does take shots down field they will be called from the sideline in the play action pass. He will simply take what the defense gives him. I think we will see stat lines like 21-33 for 200 yards. 2 TD's and 1 Int per game. After 11 games just over 2,000 yards passing with 20 TD's to 9 INT's.
He’s going to be terrible because he’s terrible.
They have us favored in 4 games all season. And one of them is the Ravens at almost split odds.
They have us favored in 4 games all season. And three are after 11 weeks.
Ugh
I expect that the plan will be to not ask too much of him; only that he make the plays that are there and not try to create or force anything and rely on the defense to hold the other offense in check.
In that light, I expect a pretty pedestrian ball-control offense that relies on setting up play-action pass with the run. Lots of TE utilization.
Waiting for the QBs I would rather have list from you.
My expectations for the team are about the same as they were at the end of last year. The AFC is loaded w/excellent qbs. Several AFC teams got stronger during the off-season. I feel that you aren't going to be a legitimate contender w/out a top-tier qb. I was very excited when we signed Watson because I thought he would make us legitimate Super Bowl contenders. That excitement is now gone.
I think JB will not take as many needless sacks and thrower fewer dumb interceptions, but that he won't make as many plus plays as Baker. Those are just opinions.
I am not as down on the team as many are because we are well-coached and have a good roster. I think we will have a record similar to last year due to less than average qb play. I also think the roster might be a bit weaker this year, especially at center.
I think what he could be is what Baker did best when he played well. A game manager that spreads the ball around in the short to intermediate passing game. When Baker got in trouble it was when he thought he was Brett Farve and tried to push the ball down field and turned the ball over. I think Brissett will move the chains with short and intermediate throws. Allow the run game and ball control offense dictate tempo and control the game. When he does take shots down field they will be called from the sideline in the play action pass. He will simply take what the defense gives him. I think we will see stat lines like 21-33 for 200 yards. 2 TD's and 1 Int per game. After 11 games just over 2,000 yards passing with 20 TD's to 9 INT's.
Brisset has never averaged 2 TD passes a game every in his career
Couple that with a WR core with guys like DPJ and Schwartz
Who are not end zone terrors by any means
I don't see Jacoby throwing 33 passes a game unless
The Browns are rallying in the 4th
The biggest issue I have with Brissett and to a larger extent Stefanski is what do the Browns do if they fall quickly behind by 10-14 points? The offensive scheme is not built to play from behind as evident by the poor investment in the WR group and a TE that after 5-years we are still talking potential. Any game the Browns go down by 10-14 will eliminate the whole basis of the offense of running Chubb and Hunt. Eight of the Browns games have opponents that based on last year's average can be expected to score 26 points per game (2021 scoring average of the teams divided by 8).
So, as we enter the 2022 season, I asked myself, "are the Browns better on offense right now than they were in at the start of 2021?
Offensive line - NO - questions about Conklin's health, a new 3rd choice at center, and the lack of significant growth by Wills
Running Back - Same - could be argued a little better with Ford but we'll have to see how he's used
WR's - NO - does anyone actually think the Browns are better at WR than at the start of 2021?
TE's - NO - traded Hooper for what turns out to be a Jesse James replacement and now in year 6 of waiting for Njoku to play up to his potential. Thanks to the heavens that we have Bryant.
QB - NO - it's shameful that Brissett's hoped for performance expectations is to be as good without some of the turnovers as a multi injured QB the previous season.
Of course, that's just MHO, but I think the Browns need to improve their team scoring by at least 5 PPG to get anywhere near 7-10, 8-9, or 9-8 this season. I hope they prove me wrong but as it stands, I just don't see it happening.
I have no clue where you got this from.....
When Baker got in trouble it was when he thought he was Brett Farve and tried to push the ball down field and turned the ball over.
In the last season he was healthy, 2020 he ranked the 6th most accurate long ball passer in the NFL. I certainly agree that Baker isn't a top 10 QB, but why people feel some need to make up BS is something I just can't figure out.
#6
Baker Mayfield
Cleveland Browns · QB
Deep attempts: 23-of-47, 714 yards, 5:2 TD-to-INT ratio, 112.7 passer rating
Comp: 48.9%
xComp: 37.7%
CPOE: +11.2%
Mayfield made it to this list at No. 10 after a dreadful 2019 season for the Browns, so it's no surprise he's ranked higher after Cleveland turned things around in a big way in 2020. Mayfield wasn't quite one to light up the scoreboard on deep passes, but he was incredibly effective out of play-action. Thanks to the threatening presence of running backs Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, Mayfield racked up 426 deep passing yards on play-action passes, tying for second-most in the league. His 12 deep completions off play-action were the third-most in the league, driving home what we all observed in 2020: The Browns are at their best when they use a run-first foundation and catch the defense napping when going to the air. Mayfield went from a CPOE of +3.9 percent and passer rating of 72.9 on deep passes in 2019 to a +11.2 CPOE and 112.7 rating in 2020. His arrow is very much pointing upward, and the Browns appear poised to continue the trend in 2021 with the expected return of a healthy Odell Beckham Jr.
https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-deep-passers-of-2020-aaron-rodgers-lands-at-no-4I expect Brissett to attempt to do what he is capable of. Which is ball control O with short passes and a strong run game. I expect all Browns opponents know this and will be prepared to game plan for it making it much more difficult for Brissett to accomplish. People seem to act as though we are the only people that know what Brissett's limitations are but they are well documented. Every NFL team knows it too. They're not just going to lay down and not prepare for it.
Edit to add; This doesn't mean the Browns can't be successful. What it means is there is really no deep ball threat. There will be no need for opponents to keep safties deep. Instead what it boils down to is that those safties can play tight and help to normalize the Browns obvious and only game plan. It's like flashing a sign saying, "You know what we are going to do so try and stop us." Sure you can still win games. But it's never a positive when everyone knows what you are going to do because it's the only choice you have.
I guess he doesn't deserve a roster spot in the NFL.
It's amazing that people don't think that interceptions and sacks are wildly important. It's also amazing that they don't think having the worst 4th quarter QBR is significant. Then, they use words like "shameful" to address the opinion of others.
QBs I’d rather have than Brissett:
Allen
Tua
Lamar
Burrow
Tannehill
Lawrence
Ryan
Wilson
Mahomes
Herbert
Carr
Prescott
Jones
Hurts
Mariota
Brady
Winston
Mayfield
Rodgers
Cousins
Fields
Stafford
Murray
Lance
Well all those guys are starters so I see your point.
I noticed you don't have Garrapolo on that list and (with the exception of not moving on from Mayfield) he would've been the only starter-caliber QB available.
I would have put Watson on the list. And I would have chosen him above all but maybe 3-8 qbs. We have him long term.
It's amazing that people don't think that interceptions and sacks are wildly important. It's also amazing that they don't think having the worst 4th quarter QBR is significant. Then, they use words like "shameful" to address the opinion of others.
Considering Brissett doesn't throw downfield, you'd hope he'd have less INT's. The sack BS you keep posting is a flat out lie.
Brissett for his career (37 starts) has been sacked 106 times for 657 yards lost which is an 8.1% sack rate.
Mayfield for his career (59 starts) has been sacked 134 times for 889 yards lost which is an 6.5% sack rate.
Brissett taking less sacks than Mayfield is a lie.
Add to that FACT, since Brissett isn't throwing downfield, he's taking those sacks when the play is a short throw or safety valve toss. I have no issue with anyone stating their opinion but outright lies is where I draw the line.
I am not lying about anything. I gave my opinion. I factor in things like time to throw, crumbling in a clean pocket, and abandoning a pocket before one has to.
How about we both give our opinions w/out all the fighting? Baker is gone.
Vers, when you say that Brissett won't take the sacks the previous QB did, but his stats prove the differ then it's not an opinion, it's a lie when you continue to post that crap knowing it's false. Anybody can make a mistake and post something wrong. Refusing to recognize you're wrong is totally different. If you're going to continue your war against a QB that is gone that you campaigned for 4-years to get rid of by spewing false facts, that is shameful.
The sad part is that if a healthy Baker was still on the team the Browns would be considered a playoff contender. With Brissett at the helm, the so-called experts are predicting 6 wins at best. That's not my opinion, those are facts that cannot be rebuked. You can stay on your crusade of slamming the guy no longer with the team but if you have to use lies to stress your point it is shameful, no two ways about it.
I am not lying about a thing. But, I guess you can't let it go. I'll let the rest of the board decide if they think I am a liar or not.
For the record, here is my initial post:
My expectations for the team are about the same as they were at the end of last year. The AFC is loaded w/excellent qbs. Several AFC teams got stronger during the off-season. I feel that you aren't going to be a legitimate contender w/out a top-tier qb. I was very excited when we signed Watson because I thought he would make us legitimate Super Bowl contenders. That excitement is now gone.
I think JB will not take as many needless sacks and thrower fewer dumb interceptions, but that he won't make as many plus plays as Baker. Those are just opinions.
I am not as down on the team as many are because we are well-coached and have a good roster. I think we will have a record similar to last year due to less than average qb play. I also think the roster might be a bit weaker this year, especially at center.
I also mentioned time to throw, crumbling in the pocket, and abandoning a pocket too early. This took about 5 seconds to find.
I don't think my opinion on the subject is out of line at all. Done!
Waiting for the QBs I would rather have list from you.
In order:
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson
Dak Prescott
Kyler Murray
Matthew Stafford
Russell Wilson
Tom Brady
Derek Carr
Kirk Cousins
Jalen Hurts
Matt Ryan
Ryan Tannehill
Trevor Lawrence
Jimmy Garoppolo
Trey Lance
Marcus Mariota
Baker Mayfield
Jared Goff
Jameis Winston
Davis Mills
Mac Jones
Josh Fields
Tua [I don’t want to look up how to spell his last name]
Carson Wentz
Tyler Huntley
Mitch Trubisky
Daniel Jones
Gardner Minshew
Teddy Bridgewater
Andy Dalton
Zach Wilson
(This was off the top of my head. Sorry if I forgot anyone. I didn’t include rookies, if I did Malik Willis would have been first.)
That's a whole lot of QB's that you are saying you'd take instead of Brissett. That's every starter in the NFL except for Seattle's and of course Cleveland's (since it's Brissett) plus 5 backups. That doesn't bode well for the Browns.
Waiting for the QBs I would rather have list from you.
In order:
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes
Josh Allen
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow
Lamar Jackson
Dak Prescott
Kyler Murray
Matthew Stafford
Russell Wilson
Tom Brady
Derek Carr
Kirk Cousins
Jalen Hurts
Matt Ryan
Ryan Tannehill
The sad thing is I feel like this Browns roster - with the addition of a first round pick this year - could go DEEP into the playoffs with anyone on the list of 16 QB's I have left in tact above. I think - if the Browns stayed as healthy as the Bengals last year, they would have a shot of a place in the S.B with anyone off this list. We have enough talent to win without a top 5 QB, especially if you add a top flight WR from this years draft. I believe it might be a struggle with Jacoby .... but that's why we play the games, I might be 100% wrong with my low expectations of JB.
That's a whole lot of QB's that you are saying you'd take instead of Brissett. That's every starter in the NFL except for Seattle's and of course Cleveland's (since it's Brissett) plus 5 backups. That doesn't bode well for the Browns.
Yep. The Brown's fortunes hinge on crfs' qb ratings.
That's a whole lot of QB's that you are saying you'd take instead of Brissett. That's every starter in the NFL except for Seattle's and of course Cleveland's (since it's Brissett) plus 5 backups. That doesn't bode well for the Browns.
Yep. The Brown's fortunes hinge on crfs' qb ratings.
As per usual.
That's a whole lot of QB's that you are saying you'd take instead of Brissett. That's every starter in the NFL except for Seattle's and of course Cleveland's (since it's Brissett) plus 5 backups. That doesn't bode well for the Browns.
You are still kind of new here. My QB rankings are definitive and not up for debate.
Yes, that’s a lot of QBs. Brissett is bad.
Don't agree. Valuing the ball is HUGE. JB values the ball- big asset. He's NEVER played with a line as POTENTIALLY as good as ours. His stats could be very good. Downside, the weather forecast is for RAIN- not good for any team. Game could EASILY be decided on turnovers. Hope we hold on best in ugly conditions....GO Browns!!!
Did I miss something, I was not debating your list. If anything, I'm not sure he's even a top 10 backup.
He probably shouldn't bother suiting up.
I am sure stefanski will figure out a way to lose the game.
oh what a factory of sadness. we sure do suck.
Did I miss something, I was not debating your list. If anything, I'm not sure he's even a top 10 backup.
My definitive list of top ten backup QBs:
Jimmy Garoppolo
Gardner Minshew
Teddy Bridgewater
Taylor Heinicke
Andy Dalton
Jordan Love
Colt McCoy
Nick Foles
Jacoby Brissett
Joe Flacco
Remember this list is not up for debate.
I think Davis Mimms, Daniel Jones and Geno Smith should be on the backup QB list somewhere ... Just me ..... But I'm not the oracle
My expectations are.
Hand off the ball cleanly to the RBs
Toss clean passes on a Screen.. Hitch.. Slant and Play Action.
He likes throwing a safer pass, Make it work, that's his game.
Did I miss something, I was not debating your list. If anything, I'm not sure he's even a top 10 backup.
My definitive list of top ten backup QBs:
Jimmy Garoppolo
Gardner Minshew
Teddy Bridgewater
Taylor Heinicke
Andy Dalton
Jordan Love
Colt McCoy
Nick Foles
Jacoby Brissett
Joe Flacco
Remember this list is not up for debate.
I pity the foo that debates your rankings. ^ This man is the
czar of QB rankings!
I hope you have an endless amount of time because trying to get Vers to admit he's wrong or putting out misinformation for his agenda IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN BRO. In his mind, he is infallible and superior to all of us fake browns fans.
And I'm sure he would say the same about me, except I am superior to him.
I can only say this because he has me on ignore and like 5-10 posters would have to quote me in agreement just to get his attention.
My definitive list of top ten backup QBs:
Jimmy Garoppolo
Gardner Minshew
Teddy Bridgewater
Taylor Heinicke
Andy Dalton
Jordan Love
Colt McCoy
Nick Foles
Jacoby Brissett
Joe Flacco
Remember this list is not up for debate.
I cannot argue with this list!
I think Davis Mimms, Daniel Jones and Geno Smith should be on the backup QB list somewhere ... Just me ..... But I'm not the oracle
In this case it doesn’t matter what you think.
I also don’t know who Davis Mimms is, is that a combo between the Texans QB and the Jets WR?
I'm pretty much anti-Brissett. Jacoby Brissetts' game?
I hope he gets waived. I hope he goes to play for the opponent the team that the team I'm rooting for is trying to beat.
I don't expect anything positive out of his game play, and you can never say never but I pretty much don't plan to ever root for Brissett.
I think he has a lot of the downside of someone like a Dishone Kizer with none of the upside.
I have a really low opinion of Daniel Jones (giants) so maybe Daniel Jones is not someone I'd put on the list of signal callers to rather have, but I hope Dobbs or Kepler? whoever the former Vikings coaches signed, funny how all of their @b's had a k in their name. frown:
I hope Brissett is waived and Dobbs plays, for a better chance for the Browns to win. I'll be rooting for the Browns as long as they aren't playing the Panthers, but in game one, I'll be rooting for the Panthers.
And really, why not?
The Browns have given me nothing to root for.
The Cleveland press has not even been properly negative, and wanted answers as to why when you had a significant team that took a long time to build, you cut your own legs out from under you and decided to install a bunch of also rans.
I don't expect anything good stats out of Brissett, I expect the word "Half" to be at the end of one of his 3 best drives of the day,
for instance.
punt
punt
punt
turnover
half
punt
punt
field goal
punt
turnover
end of game as a drive summary. ( The word Half, signaling the drive ends with the start of halftime, as one of his 3 best drives on the day.) It's all been seen before.
Why should anyone expect anything different. I mean, if there's one thing we can be pretty sure of of the people of this board, it's they've seen a lot of football. ( I mean if you are reading this you've probably seen a lot of football.)
Honestly. HONNNestly? do you expect any different?
I hope you have an endless amount of time because trying to get Vers to admit he's wrong or putting out misinformation for his agenda IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN BRO. In his mind, he is infallible and superior to all of us fake browns fans.
And I'm sure he would say the same about me, except I am superior to him.
I can only say this because he has me on ignore and like 5-10 posters would have to quote me in agreement just to get his attention.
Actually, he is more fake than anyone on this forum. He's a rah rah guy that wants things his way and only his way. There are fans here that want a winning Browns team probably more than he does. The difference is some of us see cracks in the armor, acknowledge those cracks, and want to discuss what those cracks are going to mean to our team's season.
Afterall, there's a reason why the betting money in Vegas for the NFL team that's going to have the worst record this year includes Cleveland in the bottom 5. There's a reason why numerous sports writers have predicted the Browns will only win 6 games this year. There's a reason why Brissett has been pre-seasoned ranked as the 31st ranked QB against the planned starting QB's in the NFL this year. How he is rated above Trubisky is a head scratcher, but we'll see how that finally works out.
Like I said, he's posted no less than a dozen times that Brissett has taken less sacks than our previous QB and that's a lie when you look at the percentage of sacks per attempt, the stats prove it.
I get all of that, but Vers will never admit that to anyone. And Watson aside, Vers knows football. At one time, he wasn't like this... Most of the bluster in here is the times we live in, this used to be a board where we were all like family.
Don't agree. Valuing the ball is HUGE. JB values the ball- big asset. He's NEVER played with a line as POTENTIALLY as good as ours. His stats could be very good. Downside, the weather forecast is for RAIN- not good for any team. Game could EASILY be decided on turnovers. Hope we hold on best in ugly conditions....GO Browns!!!
Maybe so. Valuing the ball might also be a trait ingrained in a back-up QB. Just don't turn it over, just don't turn it over. I wonder how many times he has heard that from his QB coach? QB's who take that attitude also don't get many 1st downs, which to me is turning it over.
If I was Brissett, or the coach for that matter, it would be to go out and be a starting NFL QB and push the ball and not be so satisfied with hitting the swing back for a 2 yard gain on 3rd and 7. Brissett is our starting QB. I want him to play like one. Sure, you can lose games by getting picked. You can also lose games by not moving the ball.
No doubt there is a difference between being aggressive and being stupid but just go out and play the game with some confidence. If Brissett is looking over his shoulder because of Dobbs, then Berry picked the wrong guy to navigate us through this 11 game stretch. We have seen Charlie Frye ball.
My message to JB is to hit some windows and drop some dimes.
When I saw Minshew a few weeks ago, I remember wishing he was our QB instead of Brissett.
Jacoby Brissett in 2021:
🟤 70.9 PFF grade when under pressure
💥 BEST in the entire NFL
Interesting.
He shouldn't get a uniform. How does a guy like him stay in the NFL.
As reported on the BrownsWire:
Brissett has almost everything you want in a quarterback: the size, the big arm, and a good grasp on how to play the position. There’s just one problem: His accuracy is horrendous. That may sound a little harsh, but I can’t think of a more appropriate word to describe it. Brissett just can’t get the ball to go where he wants it to. His poor aim and cavalier decision-making leads to some ugly interceptions, which makes it hard for any coaching staff to trust him.
I don't have you on ignore. I haven't been responding because I am sick of fighting w/you guys. First of all, I was not wrong. I stated an opinion and steve is not representing what I said accurately. I even re-posted my exact quote.
Furthermore, steve provided numbers w/out analysis. The sack numbers were inflated because JB played behind one of the worst OLs in the history of the NFL his first year in Indy. He took 52 sacks that year. It's the same OL that got Luck beat up so bad that he ended up retiring because his body and mind broke down. The Colts upgraded the OL and JB"s sacks went down to 27. That is close to half the sacks. He hasn't been sacked a ton in any of his other years, either. Baker has played behind one of the best OLs in football. Baker also holds the ball longer than JB.
Thus me stating an opinion that I think JB will take less sacks than Baker is not wrong. I even qualified that it might not play out that way. One thing for sure, I was not lying.
Now, I am going to ask again. Will you guys please leave me alone? I don't like either of you. You don't like me. You can go on and beat the drum for Baker and trash the Browns and I'll let it go. I just am sick of being called a liar when I have done no such thing. I am sick of being misquoted. I'm here to talk football and not play these petty little personality games.
Having been born in Cleveland a long time ago and moving away for most of my life.
I look at Cleveland in a different light than maybe I would if I lived there.
The Guardians having been in first place a lot of the year. The attendance 996k. That is pathetic for a team in first place.
The Braves have been in second place all year. The attendance 2.7 mil.
The Browns last season won 8 games with the 27th ranked QBR rating. The same team with some improvements and with a healthy JB playing 11 games and DW playing 6. And it appears most believe the team sucks and will win 6 to 8 games.
It is the water? The cloud cover? The cold? What is deal? Not enough sun?
Why is always doom and gloom? The team has not played a game. And JB sucks. The team sucks. Ownerships sucks. The coaching staff sucks.
Damn does everyone always see a half empty glass in Cleveland?
I guess it is me. I hate losing so I look for ways to have hopes of winning.
I am not as gloom and doom as others, bone. I think we have a good roster. I just don't think we can compete for a Super Bowl this year because the league has changed from the days when Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, etc can win Super Bowls. There are a lot of good qbs playing right now and many of them are in the AFC. That's why I agreed w/the Browns going after Watson. We need that type of QB to compete for a championship. Hopefully, the Browns will keep their best players and next year begins a long run of high-level seasons. We weren't going to win a chip w/Baker and we won't win one w/JB. But, we are legitimate contenders w/Watson.
With that said, I don't think this season is going to be as ugly as many are saying. I think the season will be similar to last year. We should win 8-10 games and I'll enjoy watchig this team fight.
It is not realistic to look at the Browns as a Super Bowl contender. I completely understand that.
However, there is no doubt that the team can have a winning season this year. That does not mean they will.
That is football.
I just don't get all the real negativity. I am ok with a winning season. Still something to get behind. Only one team wins it all.
Yes I agree you need a top notch qb. We could have drafted Josh Allen or Mahomes. We didn't and most thought both were to much of a project. We ended with Baker. He went as far as he could. I thank him for what he did accomplish. However, with this team and where we will be in the draft for years. There was no way we would get a crack at a top guy in the draft. We went after Wilson. It didn't work.
Taking the risk for Watson was a decision by Haslam for a chance to win a Super Bowl. I can not fault him for that. In the NFL it is about winning.
The AFC is stacked with great quarterbacks. Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Wilson, Lamar, Burrow; Baker is not in that class. Watson is.
I can watch this year and be happy with team and there are many players I want to see.
I just don't get negativity of many.
I think we see the Browns and the role of qbs almost exactly alike.
I really don't care what others on here think. They can be negative if they like. It doesn't affect me. I just don't like when people make things up to start fights. Otherwise, all opinions are fine w/me.
Jacoby Brissett in 2021:
🟤 70.9 PFF grade when under pressure
💥 BEST in the entire NFL
Interesting.
He shouldn't get a uniform. How does a guy like him stay in the NFL.
Jacoby Brisset 2021: the rest of the picture
5 TD, 4 INT -- in 11 games played
1283 yds, 5.4 ypc -- barely over 100 yds per game
54.3 QBR, 78.1 Passer Rating
19 Sacks in 224 drop backs (8.4%) ... 1 sack for every 67.5 yds of Passing
He is a backup.
That does not mean he can not win.
Absolutely correct.
I'm just giving the rest of the picture to give balance to the narrow view that he might be more than what he is based on the one stat of being good under pressure with a limited number snaps.
I am not lying about anything. I gave my opinion. I factor in things like time to throw, crumbling in a clean pocket, and abandoning a pocket before one has to.
How about we both give our opinions w/out all the fighting? Baker is gone.
You're the one who made the claim of Brissett taking less sacks and Baker taking a lot of sacks. That's not an "opinion". Maybe since you and a few others are the one's that keep bringing Baker up you guys should let it go? But I guess bringing the crap up and then blaming those who respond to it has become a trademark of yours. If you don't want to be called on it stop bringing it up. And stop making statements as facts and then saying it was just your opinion. Nobody is buying that BS. Or don't. But don't expect nobody to respond to you.
Jacoby Brissett in 2021:
🟤 70.9 PFF grade when under pressure
💥 BEST in the entire NFL
Interesting.
He shouldn't get a uniform. How does a guy like him stay in the NFL.
By being a back-up QB.
I should have used purple.
I don't get the moaning about JB. He is a backup.
He is the type of backup you look for. A steady hand with experience to get a team through some games. A veteran who has game experience.
All the rollout stats don't tell the whole story but that is the calling card of many.
Listing all the quarterbacks you would take over him. No **** Sherlock. Not aimed at anyone in particular.
"My god Jim he is a back-up."
Listing all the quarterbacks you would take over him. No **** Sherlock. Not aimed at anyone in particular.
Totally.
🤣
I think the issue that comes into play more than anything else is when certain posters try to slant things and make false statements. As far as back-up QB's go he is a good option. But it is what it is. Back-up QB's are back-ups for a reason. Usually it's because there is something lacking in their skill set that would take away or limit your game plan. Taking away at least one facet of your game which would make it easier to defend. In Brissett's case it's the long ball and he's really not very mobile.
You don't need safties over the top to defend the long ball game. That allows you to pull them in to defend his strength which is the short pass. That by no means indicates you can't win some football games. It just means you lost a facet of your offensive game plan that would help loosen up the opposing defense. By having the ability to loosen up your opponents defense it not only helps you in the short passing game but the running game as well. And I do understand that presenting that on this board is often described by some as a doom and gloom scenario but it's actually not. It's just the reality of things when you lose the long passing threat.
Hopefully Brissett can connect on a couple of those to help keep Carolina's defense honest. That would help things a great deal.
I am willing to see what he can do.
He has a good team around him.
I am willing to see what he and the coaching staff can do given his limited skill set. He has a body of work that shows what he can do as well as what he can't do.
I am willing to see what he can do.
He has a good team around him.
I also think he has a good scheme to work with. Stefanski's scheme is excellent. Very much like Shanny's in SF. Again, I don't think JB is a good qb, but I don't think this team is going to be as bad as many on this board are saying it will be.
I am willing to see what he can do.
He has a good team around him.
Me too - he's the flipping QB of my Browns team for (hopefully) 11 games.
I just don't have high expectations. I don't have low expectations either ... I'm waiting and gonna see. He's got a helluva OL. He's got the best 1-2 RB combo in the NFL. He's got a better WR in Cooper than we've had in "forever" - the depth behind Cooper is beyond concerning, but it is what it is. And then Njoku and Bryant are at minimum capable - with potential to flash and create some uber mismatches. He's got Stefanski who I think has a very good scheme, although I am not as sold on KS (yet) as Kyle Shanahan and wouldn't put him in the same company like others do. . . . . there are a lot of positives. But imma wait and see.
When a season begins you want to at least have some optimism.
There is plenty of time to feel like**** later.
When a season begins you want to at least have some optimism.
There is plenty of time to feel like**** later.
Ouch.
Not wanting to get the thread off the rails, but for all the talk of optimism, the trouble is - the Browns signing a QB who is a serial sexual abuser according to at least the NFL and in all probability a Civil Court of Law sucked all that optimism out of me. Many might move past that quickly - good for them. Many didn't give a rats patootie in the first place - no problem if that's the way your moral compass rolls. But as a direct result of that decision - coupled with the easy to forecast lengthy suspension that was always going to come along - my optimism at the start of the season is at the lowest point since 1999. Just me. More than happy to be pleasantly surprised by a competent backup at QB and a fierce D that smoothers other teams.
There are players on the Browns who I totally enjoy watching.
Myles has amazing talent. He is has a creature feature body and can do things like nobody else. He is going to eat Sunday.
Nick Chubb is a pleasure to watch run the ball. When he hits the go button it is like damn son.
JOK won the alpha dog of camp according to Woods. Cool dude who is a horse of a different color at linebacker. I can not recall a linebacker like him.
Bitonio is mountain man but Teller is just nasty. When he gets to the second level it is showtime. He destroys people.
Kareem Hunt reckless abandon. All around great player. He is all out at all times.
There is plenty for me to get into and enjoy. Hell I remember when Josh Cribbs was the only guy to watch. So, I am good.
After reading that article about Myles and Baker in the other forum, I expect Myles to have a huge day on Sunday. In fact, I expect the entire defense to make a strong statement about the crap that went down the last couple of years.
I can understand how and why the Browns are being treated as a bastard step child.
However, I think many people especially the tv media that are wrapped up on emotion and are overlooking the talent of the roster.
We have five Pro Bowl players: Myles, Chubb, Ward, Teller and Bitonio. Conklin has been a pro bowl starter twice. Clowney was a pro bowl player three consecutive years. Hunt won a rushing title. Cooper has been to four pro bowls.
JOK is one of the best young players in the league. Kevin Stefanski did win Coach of the year in 2020.
This is not a bare bones roster.
To think the Browns are not capable of a winning season is just nuts to me.
But in many ways. I like it that that is how we are being perceived.
Consider: Payback is a two-way street. Commercials and t-shirts are easier than football. I hope we pound Baker.
Unleash the Elf!
Reading between the lines -
Jacoby is a limited QB with limited skills - so instead of talking up his electrifying play on the field I am going to talk about character and how hard he works and what a nice person he is.
I'm sure that's what you meant - right? Or were you trying really hard to crow-bar yet one more slight and dig at the player no longer on the Browns who you claim to be neutral about but the world and his brother knows that somehow Baker eats away at your soul and you hate him with a passion? Hmmmm ? 🤔
Reading between the lines -
Jacoby is a limited QB with limited skills - so instead of talking up his electrifying play on the field I am going to talk about character and how hard he works and what a nice person he is.
I'm sure that's what you meant - right? Or were you trying really hard to crow-bar yet one more slight and dig at the player no longer on the Browns who you claim to be neutral about but the world and his brother knows that somehow Baker eats away at your soul and you hate him with a passion? Hmmmm ? 🤔
Cut it out, he was just talking football!
To clarify. I don't claim to be neutral about Baker. I can't stand the dude. I think he is a bad qb. I think he is immature. I think he's a fake. Those are not neutral stances. And I could care less if his fan club doesn't like it.
To clarify. I don't claim to be neutral about Baker. I can't stand the dude. I think he is a bad qb. I think he is immature. I think he's a fake. Those are not neutral stances. And I could care less if his fan club doesn't like it.
But, you are right............I do hope Baker can salvage his career. I don't hate the guy. I just don't think he has played well and I think he has acted immaturely. I dislike his biggest defenders FAR MORE than I do Baker.
I can't think of what the word is now - what is it Vers calls these contradictions?
Not too hard to read between these lines. Hell, just read the lines.
Myles Garrett: Relationship with Baker Mayfield was ‘slightly complicated’; rooting for him but ‘I’ve got to take him out’BEREA, Ohio — Myles Garrett received a nice text from Baker Mayfield after he was traded to the Panthers, but decided not to respond.
“He said he appreciated the time we got to spend together and getting to know each other and growing together,” Garrett told cleveland.com in a one-on-one interview last week. “I really I didn’t say anything. I didn’t really have much to say and I didn’t know how reply to it, so I didn’t.”
Garrett’s non-response came after four years of ups and downs between the two that didn’t end on the best of notes. By that end of last season, both were ready to be playing for different teams and calling it a day. The two former No. 1 overall picks will meet on the field Sunday in Carolina, with Mayfield starting for the Panthers and Garrett trying to prevent him from getting the satisfaction of beating his former team.
“I read (the text) but you know, there were some disagreements we had at a base level and I’m not mad at the guy or feeling any way towards it, but I just didn’t know how to reply to that, so I didn’t,” Garrett said. “But I still think he’s a hell of a competitor and he’s a great guy to have on your side and I’m rooting for him. I think he has a great family, but he’s the opposition now, and at the end of the day, I’ve got to take him out.”
Garrett didn’t mean that literally, of course, but did acknowledge a couple of weeks ago that if he can get a couple of sacks while putting his team in position to win, “I would kind of enjoy that too.”
The disconnect between the two seemed to be there from the start, in part because of their different personalities and leadership styles. Mayfield, the No. 1 overall pick in 2018, was brash, vocal and gregarious. Garrett, the No. 1 overall pick in 2017, was relatively quiet and a bit of a loner at first who didn’t engage with his teammates as much as he has the past couple of years. It was perceived by some, including Mayfield, a source said, as a lack of strong leadership by the ultimate Alpha Dawg on defense.
It came to a head during Garrett’s helmet incident with Mason Rudolph in 2019 when Mayfield spoke out against Garrett on national TV., and the two had to work through it. It ramped up again last season when Garrett was upset about the departure of his close friend Odell Beckham Jr., and Mayfield’s role in it. Garrett was vocal about the fact that Browns management didn’t consult with the players to get their input on the rift between QB1 and his star receiver.
As the season went along and the losses mounted, the chasm between Mayfield and Garrett widened to the point where Garrett felt something had to change for the 2022 season, whatever that might be. The Browns finished 8-9 and out of the playoffs despite star players such as Garrett, Denzel Ward and Nick Chubb being in the prime of their careers. Garrett set the bar extremely high for everyone in the organization last season — at a championship level — and spoke up if he saw something he didn’t like, whether it involved a teammate, coach or member of the front office.
Some players were also dismayed that Mayfield, suffering from a torn labrum in his left non-throwing shoulder since Week 2, took himself out of the season finale against the Bengals after consulting with his agent and members of his management team. Safety John Johnson III noted this week that he came back off of injury for that meaningless game to be there for his teammates, saying “it’s just the character” and surmising that perhaps Mayfield was just too banged up to go.
“It never is (easy),” Garrett said of working alongside Mayfield over the years. “Winning takes a lot. It’s not going to be easy come, easy go. Except for one of the Warriors teams, but I think it’s always tough. It’s always mentally straining.
“Guys are going to say and do things that they wouldn’t normally do and they’re going to listen and be receptive to things they haven’t normally done or have to do. So it was a slightly complicated relationship, but that’s how it is each year. There are new guys coming in, old guys coming in and same thing. Some guys who just came are going out, but you have to keep that same standard and you have to bring that same intensity year to year.”
The relationship may never have been the same after the helmet incident, when Mayfield told Fox Sports’ Erin Andrews on national television after the game that Garrett’s actions were “inexcusable” and that he “hurt this team.”
Former Browns defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson, shown the video clip by fellow defensive lineman Olivier Vernon, made a beeline to Mayfield in the locker room and handled it according to old-school locker room rules.
“I just said, ‘If you ever made a mistake, would you want your brothers who you look at every day, day in and day out to sit here and go against you and make you feel some type of way and like you can’t come back from it type deal?’” Richardson told cleveland.com last summer. “I said, ‘Don’t let the media and the celebrity part of being a football player get in the way of being an actual brother to your teammates. Right, wrong or indifferent, if it’s a situation that’s too bad for you to not comment on, you’re better off saying nothing at all.’”
Mayfield approached Garrett a few days later and told him he wanted him back on the team after what proved to be a six-game suspension to close out the 2019 season.
“He’s proud to have me on this team and I’m proud to have him as my quarterback on this team,” Garrett told cleveland.com before last season.
Last week, Garrett reiterated that he did, indeed, let it go.
“I’m not one to hold a grudge, so at the end of the day, it was about coming back in, earning the respect of my peers again and trying to get back to the plateau I was at and ascend higher,” he said.
The two players pulled together in 2020 and presented a united front, leading their respective sides of the ball and guiding the Browns to their first playoff berth in 18 years and their first playoff victory in 26. A photo of them body-bumping in the air after the 48-37 wild-card victory over Pittsburgh captured the essence of the two No. 1 overall picks leading the Browns to success.
But it all unraveled last season, and there is no great love lost between the two.
Garrett even told cleveland.com that the Browns will use Mayfield’s quote to NFL Network’s Cynthia Frelund about his former team that ‘I’m going to (expletive) them up” as motivation. Mayfield has denied saying it.
“We’ve known he has that type of demeanor and that attitude, and for better or for worse, it works for him,” Garrett said. “And I’m not mad at him using that fire and that chip on his shoulder to help him play to the level he has. He’s been successful in what he’s done.’’
Garrett watched Mayfield operate like that in their four years together, so he wasn’t surprised.
“Talking like that and moving the way he does, it’s worked for him,” he said. “He uses that for fire, for motivation and I think speaking like that helps amp him up.”
But, he noted, “it does the same for us as well. We’ll take it and we’ll use it, and hoping for a great matchup. I don’t think any less of him because he’s going out there and doing the same thing he did when he was with us. He’s the same guy personally, and maybe we’ll see a different Baker when we get on the field. Who knows?”
But if they don’t embrace on the field after the game, it won’t be a huge surprise.
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...for-him-but-ive-got-to-take-him-out.html Perhaps, Stefanski's words about Jacoby might make more sense now???
I am not as gloom and doom as others, bone. I think we have a good roster. I just don't think we can compete for a Super Bowl this year because the league has changed from the days when Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, etc can win Super Bowls. There are a lot of good qbs playing right now and many of them are in the AFC. That's why I agreed w/the Browns going after Watson. We need that type of QB to compete for a championship. Hopefully, the Browns will keep their best players and next year begins a long run of high-level seasons. We weren't going to win a chip w/Baker and we won't win one w/JB. But, we are legitimate contenders w/Watson.
With that said, I don't think this season is going to be as ugly as many are saying. I think the season will be similar to last year. We should win 8-10 games and I'll enjoy watchig this team fight.
Lucky for you, the broken Super Hero (Deshaun Watson) won't have to suit up, and thus won't have a chance to come back down to earth for another eleven games, so you can keep pretending he's in hall of fame mode.
But, I'll say,
If he's not even suiting up, is he anything. (Oh, he's a future something. OK, he's a future something.)
Always the Future, never the present (with the Browns) thus what is sold. (Not a pattern just a series of coincidences reoccurring over a long timeframe.)
I hope Stefanski’s decision-making (kick the early FG) improves.
I hope Stefanski’s decision-making (kick the early FG) improves.
🤦♂️
Not too hard to read between these lines. Hell, just read the lines.
Perhaps, Stefanski's words about Jacoby might make more sense now???
No, the two have nothing to do with each other. If you take all of the editorializing out of the article you posted which try and translate things into something that Garrett never actually said, you have a big, fat nothing burger. You're creating lines that simply don't exist. And you are working very hard at it.
Not too hard to read between these lines. Hell, just read the lines.
Perhaps, Stefanski's words about Jacoby might make more sense now???
No, the two have nothing to do with each other. If you take all of the editorializing out of the article you posted which try and translate things into something that Garrett never actually said, you have a big, fat nothing burger. You're creating lines that simply don't exist. And you are working very hard at it.
It's all a well-conceived ploy to take all the questions and concerns about Brissett and Stefanski's play calling to try and focus it on Mayfield. He's spent 4-years trying his azz off to convince anyone he could that Mayfield was a bum and that the Browns would never win with him even though they did win. Now, the Browns with all their talent, are looking at a potential losing season (again) as he tries to defend the moves or lack thereof made by the Browns this off season. When those losses do start coming, I cannot wait for his excuse train to pull from the station. Though I hope the Browns win and win often - as a fan, I cannot ignore the weakness at WR, the ignoring of the worst DT group in the NFL, Brissett's limitations and Stefanski's vanilla questionable play calling that will kill the Browns anytime they fall behind. Stay tuned, that choo choo is a coming........
The stupidity of the Baker Clan is bordering on astonishing.
The stupidity emotions of the Baker Clan is bordering on astonishing.
Fixed it for you.
We know you like to troll.
The title of this thread is "Expectations for Jacoby". When a person, for example me, says that they expect Jacoby Brissett to be terrible they are pessimistic or negative. Why create the thread if you are going to complain about any answer you don't like?
The title is open for discussion.
I don't have a problem with your opinion. I welcome it. I don't agree but for sure I am not complaining.
He is a backup. Of course you are going to take starters over him. But IMO he is as good or better than other backups. He is better than Case.
Frankly, I like football discussion. I have my views I do not expect anyone to agree. I am just right and they are wrong. humor.
Believe me I have been wrong enough to know.
What I do not like is "everything sucks." It sucked before so it will always suck. I effing hate that attitude. I was there in 1964. I was also there for
1-31. So do have an idea about what is really bad and good.
I do not think this is a bad team. I also believe JB maybe able to operate with this team.
The stupidity of the Baker Clan is bordering on astonishing.
I don't know if they are stupid, but they ruin thread after thread w/their constant personal attacks. It's okay to bring up Hue, Dorsey, OBJ......but don't bring up Baker. It's okay to trash every other facet of the Browns organization and team, but don't dare trash Baker. Hell, they freak if you post an article w/actual quotes from a guy like Myles Garrett. They are board bullies that try to control what is talked about and what isn't. Screw them!
I have the same expectation I have for any professional athlete, namely to win. He gets paid to play, he needs to win. It isn't always going to happen, I understand the reality of that. I get he is not the best that ever were, but he was good enough to get a job in the NFL, that means go win. He doesn't have to do it alone, he is part of a team, but I still expect him to win.
Not saying I will call for him being cut if he doesn't, but as a supporter of the team I get salty when I believe a player isn't doing his best to earn his keep.
What I do not like is "everything sucks." It sucked before so it will always suck. I effing hate that attitude.
I feel the same, not like I wake up every morning and say this day is going to suck. The day hasn't even started to see what happens.
It's the same as JB starting as a Brown. He has never started for the team he is on now so hopefully it starts off good to great !
A new situation in place, hopefully it's a good fit for all involved.
Would be nice to see a 2013 Philadelphia Eagles Nick Foles performance from JB. A one season kick butt performance !
He has a great backfield and good line to help him succeed.
I feel there will be happier fans after the game tomorrow then not !
Sadly, all you DO is trash Baker. Be it by name, or just subliminally. Hardly ANY of your posts are not bashing Baker.
You've also, in case you forgot, told us all, repeatedly how much better the Browns will be with Brisset at qb. And you've already started backing that down.
Look, you'll call me a Baker fan boy. The truth is, I am a BROWNS fan. But your constant bitching about Baker is sad.
You went away for a few years..........due to Baker. Your hatred of him oozes from almost every post you make. He's not on the team anymore. Get over it.
Nick Foles is a good example. There have been many backups that have done wonders.
Trent Green was the starter when he was injured and replaced by Kurt Warner. That worked out pretty good.
There have been other cases.
If a quarterback is on a NFL roster it is not by chance. There is competition. You have to be able to do some things.
Backups can throw the ball. If they could not they would not make a roster.
Josh Rosen can throw the ball and do it well. He is lacking in other areas but he can complete passes.
Dobbs has hardly played but he showed he can play. You can roll out all the stats you want but if you attended the practices you would see JB can throw the ball.
How well he plays for the Cleveland Browns we will get to see. For sure I am backing the guy and hoping he can win.
I could care less what others think of the Browns. I don't have high expectations for the team this year because I think you need a top-tier qb in today's NFL. We won't have that, but I think we are well-coached, have an excellent scheme, and a very good roster. If Watson was playing, we would be a legitimate Super Bowl threat. We will have him next year. JB isn't very good, but we won 8 games last year w/inferior qb play from our 3 qbs. I expect this team to win 8 to 10 games this year, but that is just an opinion. I'm going to root for the team just like I have done every year ever since I became a Browns fan decades ago. I'm not going to allow those who chose a player over a team to stop me from rooting for the team I love. Simple as that.
And, again, you can't help but dump on Baker, even though you didn't use his name. And you even tried to disguise it by saying "...inferior play from our 3 qbs..."
And, you've changed your tune of JB. he went from being "much better than Baker" to "JB isn't very good...."
And, again, you can't help but dump on Baker, even though you didn't use his name. And you even tried to disguise it by saying "...inferior play from our 3 qbs..."
And, you've changed your tune of JB. he went from being "much better than Baker" to "JB isn't very good...."
To be fair, we had inferior QB play last year. Baker was injured and that messed him up in more ways that it should, but he was horrible last year. Personally I had hoped he would get a redux this year so we could see if we got the previous better Baker or if he would be more pedestrian. We didn't get that chance, he's gone.
Hopefully Brissett is better than Baker turned out to be last year through the injury.
I wonder why the refs allow posters to put lies in quotation marks?
Agreed. I admit I haven't been the most optimistic guy on the board; I don't want to say negative I'd rather say I'm a realist, but our situation is what it is. Naturally, I'm hoping we do better than I think we will.
Anything is possible in the NFL, but tomorrow about 4-5 pm we'll have a much better idea of what we are getting this year. I expect a team that competes but falls short a lot. You and others think we'll click with a backup behind center. We shall see.
Anything is possible in the NFL, but tomorrow about 4-5 pm we'll have a much better idea of what we are getting this year.
My belief, is that it doesn't go by year , but by game day.
Look good or bad one day, then the next game day could show something different.
Good days bad days with a Back up is harder to determine than with a starter the team has had for several seasons.
Hope your doing well OCD !
Doing good, hope you are too.
Don't try to involve me in silly games.
I really believe all the negativity is going to rally the players and coaching staff. I think they will use it for motivation and it will galvanize their efforts. This is about pride, now! Look for the Browns to play hard all freaking year long and the haters can blank off.
Anything is possible in the NFL, but tomorrow about 4-5 pm we'll have a much better idea of what we are getting this year. I expect a team that competes but falls short a lot. You and others think we'll click with a backup behind center. We shall see.
I believe more in the team.
The Chubb train
Chubb is the engine..Hunt & Johnson are cars, Then the power Ford as the caboose !!
I just feel no defense could handle four RBs for four quarters just hammering away at them.
I wasn't trying to involve you, but you quoted arch...who I have on ignore. I never once uttered what he put in quotation marks. I'm allowed to defend myself from lies.
And it continues.....
It's all a well-conceived ploy to take all the questions and concerns about Brissett and Stefanski's play calling to try and focus it on Mayfield.
I really believe all the negativity is going to rally the players and coaching staff. I think they will use it for motivation and it will galvanize their efforts. This is about pride
I really do believe after hearing the players say earlier there is a new feeling in vibes that this might help get the team motivated to win off the start.
What the Team needs more is that they believe in themselves . I just have a feeling the team is going to play well and win. jmo ofc
Bro, you know sports well. You know that teams are always looking for a purpose, a cause, extra motivation. They don't like to say stuff in the media because it gets twisted, but we know that teams love embracing the "us against the world" mentality. I think this team has embraced that from everything I have heard. Even Chubb is talking about it and that dude doesn't talk much. I think the galvanization is only intensifying because so many of their own supposed fans are dogging them.
Now, all of that is just an opinion and I could be dead wrong. But, I doubt it.
I wonder why the refs allow posters to put lies in quotation marks?
Maybe because I didn't lie?
I wasn't trying to involve you, but you quoted arch...who I have on ignore. I never once uttered what he put in quotation marks. I'm allowed to defend myself from lies.
Again, don't involve me in your silly games. He directly quoted you.
I was talking about this:
I never said that. I dare any of you to find that quote. I never said that. He is lying.
Do you triple-dog-dare us??
I agree. But 1 person doesn't, unless you agree with him. If you don't, he goes all grade school and calls you a liar.
Brissett will go 18/25 for 215 yards 1 td 1 int
It should not be but often is.
Substance is match-ups, strengths and weakness, game plans, things to watch for.
What we end with is emotional crap and things that are no longer relevant.
From what I read about JB and confirmed by the limited view from ONE PRESEASON Game point blank he just is not accurate. Even his completions are passes that the WRs have to make a play on them.
One thing about this claim on holding onto the ball and showing his average time from snap to release. You have to remember our passing game is predicated on play action pass. This was told to us from the beginning and it was exactly how our O operated. Go time the average Play action pass from snap to release. Especially when there is a boot leg involved. Put things in perspective thats all.
Our defense will define our outcome for this game and probably the season. We will have to tire out our opponents defense with first downs via runs or West Coast passing game.
jmho
Hopefully JB will be good at executing screens.
Run the ball keep rotating our backs and wear the opponents D down. Mix in the short and medium range passes. Send AS deep once in a while to loosen the D.
From what I read about JB and confirmed by the limited view from ONE PRESEASON Game point blank he just is not accurate. Even his completions are passes that the WRs have to make a play on them.
One thing about this claim on holding onto the ball and showing his average time from snap to release. You have to remember our passing game is predicated on play action pass. This was told to us from the beginning and it was exactly how our O operated. Go time the average Play action pass from snap to release. Especially when there is a boot leg involved. Put things in perspective thats all.
Our defense will define our outcome for this game and probably the season. We will have to tire out our opponents defense with first downs via runs or West Coast passing game.
jmho
Hopefully JB will be good at executing screens.
Accuracy is a huge issue and has been before the Browns even signed him. There's no question he has a strong arm but getting the pass to the receiver where it's catchable is an issue. I fully expect the Panthers will go all out to stop the run. Their game plan will surely be to make Brissett beat them through the air. Stopping the run will eliminate the play action and force Brissett into a standard passing game. Offensively, that will put the game on the shoulders of the WR's and TE's to not only get open but to make the difficult catch if Brissett's passes are inaccurate per his history. If Brissett becomes uncomfortable, sacks will come into play with his moments of indecision. If the mid-range passing becomes successful, Chubb and Hunt will become huge factors in the Browns success because the Panthers will have to adjust to play honest.
Brissett needs to be better than 60% completion rate with over 225 yds for the Browns to be successful today. Scoring less than 20 points today spells trouble for the Browns. Falling behind early spells even bigger problems. If Brissett can come out hot and force the Panthers to change their defense, then I like our chances. If he's inaccurate early, it will be a very long day. Of course, all this hinges on Stefanski adjusting his game plan if needed and I'm really not comfortable with him changing his stripes but I hope he proves me wrong.
Manage the game. That's all we need. Run the ball, throw in some play action, a couple of deep shots here or there.. and let the defense frustrate Baker so he makes mistakes.
Games are close in the NFL. We won 8 games last season with an injured quarterback who was ranked 27th in QBR.
We do not need to do more than get the quarterback play up to average.
We have a better kicker who should help.
We should be better at having less penalties which was a camp emphasis.
The other thing that was highlighted in camp is "get more turnovers."
Small steps equal better results in close games.
Jacoby can be efficient. That is what we need. He is not the guy to lift a team and carry a team.
We have to rely on our strengths. Play good defense. Use the run game and OL. Don't turn it over. Get more turnovers and don't get penalities.
Play sound football.
It will not always go our way against explosive teams. But we should beat teams like the Panthers and many others.
I think you lost a lot of people when you created a list of QBs that you'd rather have, and they were all starters in the league. Jacoby is a backup... I think everyone would rather have the starter playing instead of the backup. If that's the whole point you were trying to make...
I could care less what others think of the Browns. I don't have high expectations for the team this year because I think you need a top-tier qb in today's NFL. We won't have that, but I think we are well-coached, have an excellent scheme, and a very good roster. If Watson was playing, we would be a legitimate Super Bowl threat. We will have him next year. JB isn't very good, but we won 8 games last year w/inferior qb play from our 3 qbs. I expect this team to win 8 to 10 games this year, but that is just an opinion. I'm going to root for the team just like I have done every year ever since I became a Browns fan decades ago. I'm not going to allow those who chose a player over a team to stop me from rooting for the team I love. Simple as that.
I expect Case Keenums efforts last year to be superior to Brissetts efforts this year. But who knows, it's start the season time.
I think many have a good grasp on what the Browns need to do. Brissett isn't going to win you many if any games. The best hope is he doesn't cost you games. The best the Browns can hope to do is focus on the run and short pass on O. The defense will have to step up and keep the opponents from hanging many points on the board to stay in a lot of games.
IMO the saving grace may very well be Cade York. If the above scenario can be played out a lot of Browns games will be close scores. I don't think a lot of fans understand just how many NFL games are decided by three points or less. A consistent York could easily be the difference in three or four wins.
Brissett has been in the NFL since 2016. He is what he is. Which is exactly the reason most fans on this board have focused on the need for every other portion of the team to step up and compensate. There's not much left to be said as it pertains to Brissett.
My expectations were low but. . .
3-3 tie?
There was talk about who might take more sacks and throw more picks. After week one:
Jacoby: 0 picks, 1 sack.
Baker: 1 pick, 4 sacks.
To be fair, mayfield faced much more pressure than Jacoby.
To be fair, Jacoby played behind terrible OLs that skewed the numbers that a couple of posters used to skew things. He played behind the line that forced Luck into retirement. Read through the thread and see the hostility that was focused on me for giving an opinion that I thought JB would throw fewer picks and take less needless sacks than Baker.
That's my last comment on the subject tonight.
To be fair, mayfield faced much more pressure than Jacoby.
No kidding !! LOL - I just read a post game criticism of him that he took some sacks ! Meanwhile watching the game I saw a minimum of 2 sacks where MG was untouched as he ran by the rookie LT and about the same time as his third or 4th drop back step.
I'm really encouraged by the Defense - Jacoby doesn't have to do much at all and we will win games with him before week 12. Hopefully we'll be in contention.
* Edit - went to look for "time to throw" stats because it looked like BM had to throw uber quick due to the pressure, I think the stats show how quickly he was forced to throw all day:
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throwWe might have blitzed some - but we got a lot of pressure with 4 most of the day, really encouraging.
It did help that MG was feeding their new LT his lunch
To be fair, mayfield faced much more pressure than Jacoby.
He's not interested in being fair to Baker in any way, shape, or form.
From what I saw today....I'm awfully glad we didn't give BM a fat long term contract. Those multiple batted balls per game are gone.
I expect/ expected the Chicago Bears starting @uarterback to look better or play better than Brissett, I dunno, the Bears won today I didn't see the game.
If Brissett wants to impress, 3 things could be the focus.
I. The percentage of not completed passes to total pass attempts.
2. Making Demetric Felton look like a more useable wr.
3. The same with DPJ, if DPJ, and Demetric Felton (because they are not rookies) if DPJ and Demetric Felton both become more useable and more reliable WR's as #2 and #3 options after Cooper
then your offense,
this re-built offense could take steps forward. (Because then you'd have 2nd year guys, (ish), along with the rookies Bell and Woods II, to supplement the other WR's Cooper and, Schwartz.
Well, we are 1 and 0.
JB is a backup. A good backup qb, but still a backup.
We won our home opener for the first time since 2004.
We won a game on the road despite high humidity and even more importantly.......a high dew point. Research it if you are confused.
We will have Watson---one of the very best qbs in the entire NFL---back in game 12 --17.
Is winning 8-10 games as crazy as it sounded just last week?
I don't think JB is a good backup QB at all. I'd rather see Dobbs in the next ten games. All BS about our differences on BM aside, I think Brissett will cost a game or three this season. We won today despite him and Ski IMHO. Cade York saved the day today and deserves all the credit.
I know your question wasn't directed at me. But 8-10 was never crazy as it sounded. There was always a good chance with the talent we have on the team.
As a side note, I do want to remind everyone Joshua Dobbs was drafted by the Steelers. He was with them from 2017 till 2020, then traded to the Jags. The Steelers picked him back up in 2021. He became a free agent in April. Why am I saying this = The Steelers knew Big Ben was retiring, they brought in Trubisky (signed in Mar), kept Rudolph (who they had in front of Dobbs), tendered Haskins, then drafted Pickett (which was after Dobbs becoming a free agent). They chose those three over Dobbs.
Speaking only about QB position, if they thought Dobbs could be their starting QB or bridge QB, don't you think they would've kept him over signing Trubisky or keeping Mason Rudolph?
I just want to give some perspective. Before everyone starts calling for the backup (which i see it already happening, lol)
I’m not saying he’s terrible, maybe Dobbs will ball out. But (IMO) lets at least give Brisett some time. Don't get me wrong, those couple of deep balls to a wide open Cooper and Hunt was rough to watch. But once you go with the backup, then there are repercussions to go back to the original starter if the backup doesn't work out.
Now that Baker Mayfield week is over, my vote is all the talk about Baker would do this or wouldn't do that needs to stop. We can pick it up again the next time we play Carolina or whatever team he might be a member.
I see Brissett as an average backup, not a food backup. I was at the game and Brissett is slow reading the play as it develops, once he makes a decision his release is slow, and he doesn't have a lot of zip on the ball.
But to be fait to him, the majority of the 1st team snaps went to Watson in training camp and the majority of the preseason game snaps went to Dobbs. Why would we expect Brissett to be game ready vs the Panthers.
I hope it's just the lack of pre-season work which is typical these days, making game 1 like the first real action any of these guys see, Brissett just sucks (18/34 147 1TD), we will not win against good teams with him.
KS, still bewilders me, having Brissett pass incomplete after incomplete, doing sweeps, -5 yard screens, just run the damn ball.
Brissett almost never even looked Coopers way on plays, he locked on to a target at snap and that was it.
Cade York, love this kid. My buddy was like "58 yards, he ain't gunna make that", I said "watch", and boom, he got it, with plenty to spare.
We still leave the middle of the field open too often, it's going to bite us often.
Agreed. The last thing this team needs is for the clueless fans and media members to drum up a QB controversy. Let the coaches coach. We have a very good group of coaches. They clearly outcoached Carolina's coaches yesterday.
I felt like we were certainly very prepared (defensively) for Carolina going into the game … we bottled them up for the better part of the 1st half and Baker looked as bad as he could look. Our coaches certainly gave us the best chance to grab an early lead
Hell, the Panthers barely involved McCaffrey at all. He was invisible in the first half. They didn't even try to get their best WR involved for most of the game.
They clearly outcoached Carolina's coaches yesterday.
I agree with this, and this has been one of my biggest gripes. They did a great job yesterday.
Hell, the Panthers barely involved McCaffrey at all. He was invisible in the first half. They didn't even try to get their best WR involved for most of the game.
This was baffling to me.
I think Rhule might have bought into Baker and wanted ro show him off, especially against his old team.
Every time CMC touched the ball he was electric, and he barely touched the ball.
Lol bad decision by Rhule if that’s the case. We’ve seen for 3 years that trying to have Baker be the emphasis is a recipe for disaster.
Not sure if it was Ruhle. McAdoo is their OC. Regardless of who was responsible, your point is correct.
I do want to add this to be fair. I think both teams passed more than they wanted to because both defenses clearly were doing all they could to stop the run and force inferior qbs to beat them, but still...........we at least ran Chubb and Hunt a lot more than Carolina did w/their backs.
We ran it 39 times. They ran it 19 times.
Some other stats: We possessed the ball for 38 m and 26 seconds. They possessed it for 21 m and 34 seconds.
We outgained them. 355 yards to 261.
They turned it over once. We did not turn the ball over.
We sacked them 4 times and they sacked us once.
We were penalized for 71 yards. They had 96 yards in penalties.
We pretty much dominated the game. Two coverage miscommunications late in the game were killers, but the team overcame that and our rookie kicker absolutely drilled a long kick to win the game.
Not sure if it was Ruhle. McAdoo is their OC. Regardless of who was responsible, your point is correct.
Their other option is Darnold, so did they really have an option? At worst, they had to find out what they have in Baker in real time versus what they saw from Darnold last year.
I think you misunderstood me.
Darnold in on IR. He's not even available. But, I wasn't talking about which qb to play. I was talking about relying on Baker to carry the offense instead of McCaffrey. They came out of the gate throwing the ball and ignoring McCaffrey.
The blown coverage in the first half to the TE also lead to a TD right before the half. Take that one and the one to Anderson away and the Panthers might not have scored a TD at all.
It's frustrating and maddening because the only way this team is going to be good this year is if the defense is dominating.
I'm a little miffed with Myles on the Anderson TD. I feel like he was taking the play off. He chose to rush into three defenders into the interior of the line instead of rushing around the tackle and keeping Baker in the pocket i.e., choose to get stonewalled instead of being explosive around the edge. Baker moved to the area vacated by Myles and threw the TD. I feel like Myles was just going through the motions on that play likely because he was tired. I've never seen a more supreme physical specimen suck wind at the rate he does. I know he has asthma and all, but he's usually sucking wind after the first play of the game.
I’d have to be in the defensive room, but I’d bet Delpit was the reason for the secondary lapse(s). Both times it seemed he got caught flat footed peaking into the backfield.
In terms of Vers’ point about time of possession, yards gained, etc … we definitely outplayed and outcoached them. Had they won the game it would have been a dagger. Hopefully it propels us now as Brissett gets a little more at ease.
Hell, the Panthers barely involved McCaffrey at all. He was invisible in the first half. They didn't even try to get their best WR involved for most of the game.
This was baffling to me.
I think Rhule might have bought into Baker and wanted ro show him off, especially against his old team.
Every time CMC touched the ball he was electric, and he barely touched the ball.
It's stuff like this why Rhule might be looking for a job by the end of the season.
Delpit definitely looked flat-footed and slow to react several times. Heck, even his interception was only due to a horrible throw that was far off the mark. On the other hand, I think JJ left his zone and sprinted forward to take the TE [I think he was a TE] in the intermediate boundary. Looked like Newsome was expecting deep help in the middle.
Hell, the Panthers barely involved McCaffrey at all. He was invisible in the first half. They didn't even try to get their best WR involved for most of the game.
This was baffling to me.
I think Rhule might have bought into Baker and wanted ro show him off, especially against his old team.
Every time CMC touched the ball he was electric, and he barely touched the ball.
It's stuff like this why Rhule might be looking for a job by the end of the season.
Maybe they wanted to ease CMC back into playing? He's missed a ton of games the last 2 years. I do not know, just speculating.
If his rationale behind minimizing CMC's touches was "Baker is more motivated with a chip on his shoulder" then he should be held accountable. The offense should run through CMC when he is able. I think Baker is always motivated, not just for revenge games.
That’s probably the case. Let’s hope they can sure up those instances because they’ve been very costly.
You mentioned the terrible throw by Baker on the INT. I kind of chuckled that it was the exact type of throw that we’ve seen him make here.
The blown coverage in the first half to the TE also lead to a TD right before the half. Take that one and the one to Anderson away and the Panthers might not have scored a TD at all.
It's frustrating and maddening because the only way this team is going to be good this year is if the defense is dominating.
I'm a little miffed with Myles on the Anderson TD. I feel like he was taking the play off. He chose to rush into three defenders into the interior of the line instead of rushing around the tackle and keeping Baker in the pocket i.e., choose to get stonewalled instead of being explosive around the edge. Baker moved to the area vacated by Myles and threw the TD. I feel like Myles was just going through the motions on that play likely because he was tired. I've never seen a more supreme physical specimen suck wind at the rate he does. I know he has asthma and all, but he's usually sucking wind after the first play of the game.
This has always been my issue with Myles, dude should dominate 4 quarters consistently but theres alot of times he seems content to just go through the motions, almost as if he's bored.. I don't think he has that fire that some of the greats to.. He's successful because he is so talented and can dominate when he chooses to, problem is he doesn't choose to that often. He Goes through spurts . Some of it yesterday could have been having some time off during camp for his personal stuff. Also not having any live game reps before yesterday due to camp cupcake. I think they should have given both he and Clowney time over the rookie LT yesterday.. That intensity is what keeps him from being ahead TJ Watt imo. I think Watt is the better overall player and he's def. more impactful, but I don't think theres anyone else above Garrett as an edge rusher..
I think he (and the coaching staff/analytic dept) certainly preserve his usage and energy. I’ve noticed that if we have a two score lead he’s off the field more. Or if there are 7 minutes left and they have the ball, he’ll be on the sidelines preserving himself for their FINAL drive.
In basketball terms, Steph Curry does the same thing each 4th quarter. He sits WAY longer than other stars into the 4th, no matter what the score is or what their circumstances.
JMO
Hell, the Panthers barely involved McCaffrey at all. He was invisible in the first half. They didn't even try to get their best WR involved for most of the game.
This was baffling to me.
I think Rhule might have bought into Baker and wanted ro show him off, especially against his old team.
Every time CMC touched the ball he was electric, and he barely touched the ball.
They were trailing pretty much all game.
This has always been my issue with Myles, dude should dominate 4 quarters consistently but theres alot of times he seems content to just go through the motions, almost as if he's bored..
Aaron Donald is arguably the best player in the NFL on either side of the football - certainly the differential between him and the next best at his position is gigantic. Even Donald doesn't dominate the play on every snap for 4 quarters. I think expectations have to be realisitic.
I agree with Rish - MG dived inside and into 3 OL on the Anderson TD... whether that was the design of the play or if that was MG having a bad play IDK. But I thought MG played a hell of a game, I wouldn't swap him for any other DE.
Hell, the Panthers barely involved McCaffrey at all. He was invisible in the first half. They didn't even try to get their best WR involved for most of the game.
This was baffling to me.
I think Rhule might have bought into Baker and wanted ro show him off, especially against his old team.
Every time CMC touched the ball he was electric, and he barely touched the ball.
They were trailing pretty much all game.
The Panthers had one drive that took 8 plays in the first half. The rest were 4 or 5 plays including punts/turn overs (3 and outs or nearly so.)
CMC's first touch went for -5 yards. Otherwise he had a couple of 4 yard runs early in the game. He averaged 3.3 ypc. They couldn't get anything going. It's hard to give a guy touches when the defense is on the field. Throw in the snap troubles and there are some more busted plays where it's hard to get the ball to anybody in particular. It's hard to know what their plan was.
Outside of the busts, we had their number, and they kept shooting themselves in the foot as well. It looked like a week one game. Both teams have a lot to clean up. It was nice to get the W while working into the flow.
j/c:
I really don't understand how Myles gets criticized. No one player gets a sack and/or pressure every play of the game. Carolina was lining up a TE over on his side and chipping him all game long. So, Myles was having to beat two guys or more most of the game. That opens things up for other guys.
The blown coverage in the first half to the TE also lead to a TD right before the half. Take that one and the one to Anderson away and the Panthers might not have scored a TD at all.
" on 25 of the runs, they averaged 2.4 yards per carry."
- Butch Davis on Jamal Lewis' 295 yard, 30 carry day against the Browns on 15 Sept 2003
The blown coverage in the first half to the TE also lead to a TD right before the half. Take that one and the one to Anderson away and the Panthers might not have scored a TD at all.
" on 25 of the runs, they averaged 2.4 yards per carry."
- Butch Davis on Jamal Lewis' 295 yard, 30 carry day against the Browns on 15 Sept 2003
Yep. I have long said that Barry Sanders wasn't all that impressive if you took away that 70 yarder and 30 yarder. Take those away and he only gained 40 yards.
j/c:
I really don't understand how Myles gets criticized. No one player gets a sack and/or pressure every play of the game. Carolina was lining up a TE over on his side and chipping him all game long. So, Myles was having to beat two guys or more most of the game. That opens things up for other guys.
I am overly critical by nature.
That means when I praise, watch out!
j/c:
I really don't understand how Myles gets criticized. No one player gets a sack and/or pressure every play of the game. Carolina was lining up a TE over on his side and chipping him all game long. So, Myles was having to beat two guys or more most of the game. That opens things up for other guys.
I'll tell you why I am critical:
He is not good against the run and is way too willing to sell out for the pass rush;
He disappears late in games and late in the year;
He lines up offside like a rookie (not yesterday thankfully);
He gets "his" sack and coasts. Last year he had exactly (1) game with more than 1.5 sacks...(1) game and against the Bears...(5) games with (0) sacks...(3) straight (0) sack games in weeks 14, 15, & 16 during the playoff push;
His overall play is quite good...but not DPOY level that we are told every year. He gets held like crazy...he rarely makes a play to snuff out the other teams mojo or to get the D off the field.
JMO
No context? No what ifs? No blaming someone or something else? No defending the team's best player? Just straight criticism.
Interesting.
j/c:
I really don't understand how Myles gets criticized. No one player gets a sack and/or pressure every play of the game. Carolina was lining up a TE over on his side and chipping him all game long. So, Myles was having to beat two guys or more most of the game. That opens things up for other guys.
I'll tell you why I am critical:
He is not good against the run and is way too willing to sell out for the pass rush;
He disappears late in games and late in the year;
He lines up offside like a rookie (not yesterday thankfully);
He gets "his" sack and coasts. Last year he had exactly (1) game with more than 1.5 sacks...(1) game and against the Bears...(5) games with (0) sacks...(3) straight (0) sack games in weeks 14, 15, & 16 during the playoff push;
His overall play is quite good...but not DPOY level that we are told every year. He gets held like crazy...he rarely makes a play to snuff out the other teams mojo or to get the D off the field.
JMO
He did play last 5 games last year with a pulled groin muscle. He was a gamer to be out there trying to help his team win.
Tough for me to be critical of Garrett. He’s improved, he’s a leader, he’s a game changer, etc.
If we’re going back to 1999, if we’re looking at our best players he’s in the top 3 with Thomas and chubb.
Cowherd just called him the best defensive player in the league.
Cowherd just called him the best defensive player in the league.
it’s between him, Watt, or Donald .. and i can’t argue against Cowherd there
Cowherd just called him the best defensive player in the league.
it’s between him, Watt, or Donald .. and i can’t argue against Cowherd there
Those three plus Parsons. I'm not sure there is a close fifth.
Cowherd just called him the best defensive player in the league.
it’s between him, Watt, or Donald .. and i can’t argue against Cowherd there
Watt is hurt and has played with an elite supporting cast for a while - MG has not.
Donald I still think is probably at the top but plays a different position - but he has past the peak of his career - MG is still ascending.
It was one game against a newly put together OL and a rookie LT who is a better run blocker than pass protector. While I thought he looked like a beast - I'd like to see the same level for a few weeks before crowning him.
Cowherd just called him the best defensive player in the league.
it’s between him, Watt, or Donald .. and i can’t argue against Cowherd there
Those three plus Parsons. I'm not sure there is a close fifth.
For me its Donald, Watt, Garrett, Parsons. Parsons for his size gets to QB a crazy high amount. He was in Brady's head last night... to bad dallas is still dallas, I would LOVE parsons over any one of our linebackers. Thats the exact kind of guy we are missing there.
I don’t know how it happened but the Jacoby Brossett thread turned into a Myles Garrett thread. I don’t mind that because Brissett is terrible. Anyway, this seems relevant:
Myles Garrett earns the highest PFF grade of any player in Week 1
Jeff Risdon
September 12, 2022 1:12 pm ET
Myles Garrett had himself quite a Sunday afternoon in Charlotte. The Browns defensive end was all over the stat sheet against the Panthers in Cleveland’s thrilling win:
Two sacks, four tackles, three TFLs, one forced fumble, one pass defender, six QB hurries of former teammate Baker Mayfield.
Garrett’s impact on the game was undeniable. The film grade reinforces just how awesome Garrett was against the Panthers. No. 95 registered the single highest overall game grade of any NFL player in Week 1 (pending Monday Night Football) from Pro Football Focus.
PFF graded Garrett with a 94.4 grade for the game. That tops veteran EDGE Jerry Hughes, who logged an impressive 93.6 game grade in his debut with the Houston Texans. Much of Garrett’s success came at the expense of the Panthers’ first-round rookie tackle, Ikem Ekwonu, who was on the hook for both of Garrett’s sacks. The overall grade would have been even higher if not for a charted missed tackle on Garrett.
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2022/09/12/myles-garrett-earns-highest-pff-grade-week-1/
No context? No what ifs? No blaming someone or something else? No defending the team's best player? Just straight criticism.
Interesting.
That...and absolutely no rebuttal from what I stated.
More interesting.
it's gonna be hard for jacoby to follow this up with an even poorer performance against the jets, but i'm not confident in saying that. first game of the season was very tough to watch. But he did make some good throws, including throws that got us in position to score. hoping we call more PA, and want to see him get the TE's involved early. if our defense (clean it up) and run game keeps it up, jacoby will be good enough to keep us in the playoff hunt.
Our best offense might in fact be to run, run, run and then PA pass it deep and hope for 2 big DPI penalties a game. And I’m only 25% joking.
Why I would rebut it when I agree with it?
The part that is interesting is that you aren't balanced in your praise and criticism of players. If you like.the player you skip the bad stuff.
I find it interesting how many people Baker gets on his side. Some dude named Conor Orr wrote an article for SI today completely absolving Baker for being Baker. I read it and thought to myself that Baker's ability to create and continously add members to the Baker Bros is impressive. It's beyond impressive actually.
Connor Orr is Baker's nom de plume.
Why I would rebut it when I agree with it?
The part that is interesting is that you aren't balanced in your praise and criticism of players. If you like.the player you skip the bad stuff.
I find it interesting how many people Baker gets on his side. Some dude named Conor Orr wrote an article for SI today completely absolving Baker for being Baker. I read it and thought to myself that Baker's ability to create and continously add members to the Baker Bros is impressive. It's beyond impressive actually.
Charlotte Radio Media already doing it too man. Listened today about the terrible play calling in the first half and how 4 run plays and 21 pass calls was awful and the main reason for the loss - they did mention Baker started poorly but they also said he led the team to a lead with less than 1:30 left in the game and it wasn't his fault that the team didn't win ! Crazy thinking - I know a few Browns fans who would definitely blame Baker for not holding on to a lead and allowing the refs to blow calls in a loss like that. In fact I've read it on this board more than once!
He's someone else's problem now.
I do hope Jacoby can develop some chemistry with the WR corps, and Njoku as well. By the way, did Bell play yesterday?
The WR, not the other Bell.
I hope so too because if JB doesn't, we may have a full blown QB controversy. Only in Cleveland could there be a QB controversy between a 2nd and 3rd stringer and possibly a 4th with Josh Rosen. LOL!!!
Bell played 22 snaps. 1 less than Schwartz. I don't believe he was targeted.
I thought you did not watch the game? There is no qb controversy. We won our opener for the first time since 2004. JB led us to a game-winning score. Yes, he threw some ugly, ugly passes. However, he did not turn it over as opposed to the other qb. Took only one sack instead of four on the other side.. Didn't have 4-5 passes batted down. Didn't fumble the snap multiple times which led to the other team being behind the chains. We won on the road in a game in which we were not favored. I get that you guys are into the doom and gloom and are upset about Baker, but maybe you can please let Browns fans enjoy a win for a week?
Ok thanks. I watched the whole game -sober - and didn’t notice him once.
Vers I said it as a joke. We need to stick with JB so he can get some chemistry with our receivers. Basically, because JB didn't play much in preseason he's learning on the fly with our receivers. And I am enjoying this win. First time since 2004 that I've been able to after 1 game!!
I thought you did not watch the game? There is no qb controversy. We won our opener for the first time since 2004. JB led us to a game-winning score. Yes, he threw some ugly, ugly passes. However, he did not turn it over as opposed to the other qb. Took only one sack instead of four on the other side.. Didn't have 4-5 passes batted down. Didn't fumble the snap multiple times which led to the other team being behind the chains. We won on the road in a game in which we were not favored. I get that you guys are into the doom and gloom and are upset about Baker, but maybe you can please let Browns fans enjoy a win for a week?
He can't let his hate go. Hey Vers, pm me your shipping address and I'll send you some Jacoby Brissett fan club pom-poms.
You guy won the day, barely, thanks to Cade York's leg. I'm almost sad Cade made it because part of me really wanted to hear your excuses.
Expectations for Jacoby. ... prior to game 2.
Jacoby Brissett in Game #I.
I8 completions,
/ 34 attempts. ... ( I6 the number of ones not compete)
I47 yards, 74 @br. rating, and One Touchdown. Game one.
Now, Expectations for Jacoby Brissett for Game #2.
I9 completions, so one more,
on 33 attempts, so one or two less ( I4 would be the ones not complete)
I56 yards, ( so 9 more yards passing than in game one)
A 75 passer rating, and at least one Touchdown. (Touchdowns can't always be predicted sometimes the ball is gifted to your team in the red zone to start a drive, and sometimes you just punch it in on the ground.
So, just a small amount of improvement in every category. (Boy that sounds bleak.)
Well, he's not playing the Ravens, if they were playing the Ravens, this week, I'd say expecations= trainwreck and trainwreck=expecations the same way either way you look at it.
(And Throw the ball to Nick Chubb whenever possible, I think the Browns have a high winning percentage when Chubb catches the ball for 40+ yards on a day. )
He didn't turn the ball over and he led us on a game winning drive to end the game. Not sure if you can expect more of fill-in qb. I'll take that every game.
He didn't turn the ball over and he led us on a game winning drive to end the game. Not sure if you can expect more of fill-in qb. I'll take that every game.
At the end of the day...there it is. In the NFL, you are what your record says you are...other things are interesting...but nothing else matters. Que Metallica
He also avoided multiple sacks. That's important because we either got points or better field position due to that fact. I said before the season he might throw fewer picks and take fewer needless sacks than what we had the last four years. JB is not very good. He isn't going to make others better. He isn't going to win games for you. But, he might not lose as many for you, either. He's a quality backup qb and will fit into that role nicely once Watson returns.
Not much in terms of expectations from Dawgs4life.
Where does Jacoby Brisset rank in comparison to the @uarterbacks that would mostly be ranked I0th-20th best in the NFL.
Can we be sure that J. Brissett is not a top 20 @uarterback.
Then:
Ask the same @uestion about him in comparision to the @uarterbacks that would most likely be ranked 20th-30th in the NFL.
Can we be sure that Jacoby Brisset is not a top 30 @uarterback in the league.
and if so,
Then What are the Browns doing here, with forcing a @b that's clearly not top 30, on a team, where, @uarterback play is so important every week in every game.
I never thought Brissett would play a game like he did against the Jets. Well done.
jacoby had an excellent game. i dont even care about the pick at the end cause we all know that game was lost by our pathetic defense.
lets hope we get this version on thursday.
I never thought Brissett would play a game like he did against the Jets. Well done.
He lost.
I never thought Brissett would play a game like he did against the Jets. Well done.
He lost.
Browns* lost
jacoby had an excellent game. i dont even care about the pick at the end cause we all know that game was lost by our pathetic defense.
lets hope we get this version on thursday.
this. no longer worried anymore about the ability to move the ball in the air. only thing to see now is consistency
I never thought Brissett would play a game like he did against the Jets. Well done.
He lost.
Browns* lost
jacoby had an excellent game. i dont even care about the pick at the end cause we all know that game was lost by our pathetic defense.
lets hope we get this version on thursday.
this. no longer worried anymore about the ability to move the ball in the air. only thing to see now is consistency
He lost.
The issue is that 3 of our 4 first games are against 2021 nonplayoff teams. It's the weakest part of our schedule and we just lost to what many consider our weakest 2022 opponent with their backup QB. Let's not forget that we received a referee no call on intentional grounding (considered one of the 3 biggest blown plays by the refs in week 1) otherwise we'd be sitting here at 0-2. The meat of the schedule may tell a totally different story.
Half empty 0-2.
Half full 2-0.
Reality 1-1.
The offense was outstanding. Jacoby played lights out. I don't know if DW could have played any better.
Special Teams were horrible. The secondary and the defense failed.
The game was an oddity from the standpoint of what actually had to happen in order to lose.
The reaction by fans is expected. Let us find someone to lynch.
The reaction by fans is expected justified. Let us find someone to lynch.
Fixed it.
I never thought Brissett would play a game like he did against the Jets. Well done.
Nor did I. He had a great game!
When your D gives up 13 points with two minutes left in the game, "he" didn't lose.
Brissett is having the type of season we would expect from him.
40/61 2 TD's 1 INT 376 YDS
he isn't doing anything to help or hurt us. Which, is what we need for 9 more games.
Brissett yesterday was better than Baker last season. He was pretty freaking controlled and efficient
Brissett is having the type of season we would expect from him.
40/61 2 TD's 1 INT 376 YDS
he isn't doing anything to help or hurt us. Which, is what we need for 9 more games.
I absolutely agree.
But I'm going to wait until we play a couple of above average defenses (and we can't count on the rush yards as much) before I feel comfortable.
Brissett yesterday was better than Baker last season. He was pretty freaking controlled and efficient
Against a pathetic team.
j/c
I find it pretty odd that some of the very people that say they are tired of hearing about Baker keep bringing up Baker.
j/c
I find it pretty odd that some of the very people that say they are tired of hearing about Baker keep bringing up Baker.
Pretty odd? Disturbing would be a better descriptor.
![[Linked Image from media1.giphy.com]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/S9crjCfQXC78ST61iv/200.gif)
j/c:
Wonder why a poster who has said he is no longer rooting for the Browns and hasn't watched the Browns play this year is commenting on a thread that is about a QB he hasn't even seen play in a Browns uniform? Trolling, I suppose.
It might be a mirage, but how many of us expected this? Hell, there were people wanting Dobbs to be the starter.
j/c:
Wonder why a poster who has said he is no longer rooting for the Browns and hasn't watched the Browns play this year is commenting on a thread that is about a QB he hasn't even seen play in a Browns uniform? Trolling, I suppose.
That's because, since you are referring to me in a very cowardly manner, I never said that I wasn't rooting for the Browns. I do root for the Browns. At least until watson begins to play as the QB. I'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I've said I'm no longer a fan. You love to try and harp on that fact. Fan is short for fanatic. I no longer hold the passion of which I think it takes to qualify as a fanatic of this team. I know you won't see this because you lack the courage it takes to read what someone posts you can't seem to stop talking about. You would rather talk about them blindly without the courage it takes to face them head on.
A troll would talk about someone while refusing to face them although there are other words that describe that.
There are a couple of other things I like about him. He is a calm, low-key guy who doesn't crave being the center of attention. He has also stood in the face of the rush to deliver the ball and even has escaped sacks. That prevents us from getting behind the chains, which is huge. And I don't have the numbers to back this up, but it seems like he has completed quite a few 3rd down passes to keep drives alive.
It might not continue, but thus far I am pleased w/his performance.
Jacoby Brissett believes Browns moved toward 'what we want this offense to look like'Brissett executed the Browns’ offensive blueprint and provided a silver lining from a difficult loss
Sep 20, 2022 at 05:57 PM
Employee Headshots on June 24, 2021
Anthony Poisal
Staff Writer
Jacoby Brissett looked like a quarterback who was playing close to his best football Sunday against the Jets.
Despite a 31-30 loss the Browns are eager to forget, Brissett and the offense provided a silver lining to an otherwise disappointing day — they generated 405 total yards with 221 of them coming from Brissett's arm. He established a great rhythm with top receiver Amari Cooper, looked for ways to get TE David Njoku involved and generated several opportunities on screen passes to the running backs.
His performance didn't result in a win, but it was a textbook example of what the Browns hope to do every week with Brissett under center.
"I thought we did a lot of good things well and moved forward toward what we want this offense to look like," Brissett said. "Each week is totally different, and we only have to score one more point than the other team. That's just the mindset. However that comes, we are up for the challenge."
The Browns set themselves up for success by using their elite run game to pound away for yards and create favorable pass situations for Brissett — and it worked.
The offense's third-down success rate is one way to measure that success.
The Browns finished at a superb 8-for-12 on third downs and only faced third downs of seven or more yards four times. By only needing a few yards on the "money down," the Browns could keep things simple and easy for Brissett, who passed on 10 of the 12 third downs and moved the chains on six of them.
Four of those conversions were to Cooper, whose production was another example of overall offensive improvement
After catching only three passes for 17 yards in Week 1, Cooper connected with Brissett nine times on 10 targets for 101 yards and one touchdown. That marked Cooper's most productive performance since Week 7 last season when he was a member of the Cowboys, and the Browns brought him to Cleveland to be the first and often best look for their QBs.
He certainly filled that role Sunday.
"That was just one of those days for him," Brissett said. "Did a really good job of understanding the plan. I thought we as a collective group understood the plan. It wasn't just Amari. Obviously, Amari was getting himself open, but players were running routes to help get him open. Just capitalized on the opportunities that we had."
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...ward-what-we-want-this-offense-to-look-l
It's very early, but there was a lot of talk about Jacoby vs Baker this off-season. I said I thought that JB might take fewer sacks and throw fewer picks than Baker. That was hotly debated. Also, there was a lot of talk about how much better Baker was as a QB.
Again, it's early and a lot can change, but thus far:
Both JB and BM have one interception. As an aside, both have thrown 2 TD passes.
JB has been sacked twice and BM 6 times.
JB is 12th out of 32 ranked QBs in QBR at 59.3. BM is dead last at 23.7.
The above can be found at
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/adjQBR/dir/descI also looked up their PFF grades.
JB is 17th of 34 ranked QBs at 64.4. BM is ranked 32nd out of 34 ranked QBs at 45.5
I thought you didn't want to talk about him anymore? Maybe you just don't want anyone else talking about him but you. At least that's the way it looks.
I do love you always put a qualifier to try to avoid responsibility for your posts however.....
Again, it's early and a lot can change, but thus far:
It's very early, but there was a lot of talk about Jacoby vs Baker this off-season. I said I thought that JB might take fewer sacks and throw fewer picks than Baker. That was hotly debated. Also, there was a lot of talk about how much better Baker was as a QB.
Again, it's early and a lot can change, but thus far:
Both JB and BM have one interception. As an aside, both have thrown 2 TD passes.
JB has been sacked twice and BM 6 times.
JB is 12th out of 32 ranked QBs in QBR at 59.3. BM is dead last at 23.7.
The above can be found at
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/adjQBR/dir/descI also looked up their PFF grades.
JB is 17th of 34 ranked QBs at 64.4. BM is ranked 32nd out of 34 ranked QBs at 45.5
Jacoby threw a late Q4 pick. Had he not thrown a pick there...we would have had a chance to win with a last second field goal...just like in week 1 versus the Panthers.
No one in their right mind is/was blaming the loss on Jacoby...however...if our old QB played the exact same game...with the exact same results...YOU would have harped on that INT ad nauseam.
Jacoby plays for a team that is supposedly a playoff caliber team...our old QB plays on a supposedly bottom 5 team.
Your hypocrisy is remarkable. Only you and BakerDawg have the Baker fanboy syndrome...and BakerDawg has moved on.
It's very early, but there was a lot of talk about Jacoby vs Baker this off-season. I said I thought that JB might take fewer sacks and throw fewer picks than Baker. That was hotly debated. Also, there was a lot of talk about how much better Baker was as a QB.
Again, it's early and a lot can change, but thus far:
Both JB and BM have one interception. As an aside, both have thrown 2 TD passes.
JB has been sacked twice and BM 6 times.
JB is 12th out of 32 ranked QBs in QBR at 59.3. BM is dead last at 23.7.
The above can be found at
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/adjQBR/dir/descI also looked up their PFF grades.
JB is 17th of 34 ranked QBs at 64.4. BM is ranked 32nd out of 34 ranked QBs at 45.5
Interpret however you like. I'm not telling you what to think.
I provided factual football talk. Others are talking about other posters.
vers...and all of this means WHAT..?[/quote]
That at the end of the day and the Browns only win 5-6 games this year, Vers will still be blaming it on Mayfield. He's the only poster that still brings him up for any incident that occurs with the Browns. Hell, I'm shocked he hasn't blamed Baker for hands team Cooper missing the on-side kick Sunday. Oh well, can't wait for his next excuse to bring up Baker to try and prove his point.
This is interesting from week 2.
Brissett was graded the #1 QB overall vs pressure.
He was graded at #8 when not pressured.
Earned a #1 grade when throwing in less than 2.5 seconds.
Was 8th when receiving over 2.5 seconds to throw.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/xihwwk/browns_vs_jets_week_2_pff_grade_albums/https://imgur.com/a/cuka1NDI think maybe it's time for some people to reconsider how they view for Stefanski. He already elevated one qb here and while it is very early, he has JB playing the best ball of his life. Btw----I'm not taking any credit away from Jacoby. I just think there is a false perception fueled by a few of Stefanski.
j/c
anyone who had realistic expectations for Jacoby cannot be disappointed in his play. Played well enough to win week 1, played more than well enough to win week 2.
Stefanski seems like a great OC/QB coach. The Browns put up points and move the ball. He elevates the QB play.
Is he a good head coach? Does what happened last week happen to a good head coach? I'd say no because what happened last week doesn't even happen to bad head coaches.
The key now is how he and his team respond. We are going to find out what kind of HEAD coach he is beginning tonight.
I'm not telling you what to think.
---------------------------------------------------Then...
I think maybe it's time for some people to reconsider how they view for Stefanski.
You couldn't get to a 2nd post in a row WITHOUT telling people what to think/view.
There was an albatross placed around the neck of this team well before this season even began. Bad press, nagging questions asked of the players and them being forced to provide cover. They too are human beings. But nobody wants to bring that up.
Just watched an interview that Kimberly Martin from ESPN did w/Jacoby. Man, he is a really likable guy. Very calm. Soft-spoken. Quiet resolve. Very steady. It would be great for the Browns--and him--if he continues to have success here. Wishing him the best.
JB is getting it done, period. I feel confident when he drops back to pass. Very aware in the pocket, confident, hitting his receivers in stride. We might have a new quarterback controver.... I can’t say it, not yet.
Jacoby has exceeded all expectations to this point.
JB is getting it done, period. I feel confident when he drops back to pass. Very aware in the pocket, confident, hitting his receivers in stride. We might have a new quarterback controver.... I can’t say it, not yet.
Man, if we're having that conversation when Watson returns to practice, we'll be in great shape!
Jacoby is playing very well. It's early, but we are a better team w/him at qb than we would be w/Baker. He doesn't turnover the ball as much and takes fewer sacks. My only complaint is that in taking care of the ball, he is sometimes a beat too late on throws. Even w/the negative, he is a steadying influence for this team and he is one of the guys instead of wanting to be the show.
This is a thread about Jacoby. Please take your Baker obsession somewhere else and stop clogging up threads about a player who is no longer a Brown.
To me, JB is playing about as I expected, not necessarily in terms of wins or stats. I thought if we protected him, he would be consistent, but he wouldn't make plays that would cause your jaw to drop, just be steady. Looking over his career stats and teams he was with, I assumed he would take care of the ball and make good decisions. I felt we had enough talent to help him.
I don't think Baker wanted to be the show. That's not fair. I think Baker's personality combined with his poor play didn't put him in the best standing with his teammates. At the end of the day it's about production, and Baker's production wasn't there.
In a surprising twist the Carolina fans have already turned on him after two games. I don't think Baker will be in the league two years from now unless he is willing to be a backup. And even then teams may not want him in that role.
I have gone from being ticked off at his play here to feeling bad for the guy.
I disagree. Dude would not throw the ball to OBJ because he was jealous of the latter. He put out a shirt about being unleashed right before our game. I could go on and on and I won't trash you for your opinion. I still think we are a better team w/JB than we would be w/Baker. Imagine how good we will be next year w/Watson? I'm hoping you are finally going to give Stefanski some credit...
j/c...
I'll let Marla do the talking. She's saying pretty much everything I'm thinking anyway. Brissett, in a word: Stoic.
'He's been unbelievable': Outsiders underestimated Cleveland Browns' Jacoby Brissett
Marla Ridenour
Akron Beacon JournalCLEVELAND — When the Browns collapsed in a 31-30 loss to the New York Jets Sunday, it felt as if the best game of quarterback Jacoby Brissett’s life had been wasted.
Having that thought may still be hard to admit. But it was nearly universal, at least to those outside the drama-filled confines of the Browns’ Cross Country Mortgage Campus.
We were wrong.
Thursday’s 29-17 victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers at FirstEnergy Stadium proved that we grossly underestimated Brissett.
Signed by the Browns on March 25, Brissett was considered a placeholder for Deshaun Watson, a game manager with a 14-23 record as a starter. After Watson’s 11-game league suspension was announced, many believed the Browns would have been better off with Baker Mayfield, traded to the Carolina Panthers. Some longed for Jimmy Garoppolo, whom the San Francisco 49ers wisely decided to keep.
We were wrong on all counts.
In the past two games against the Jets and Steelers, Brissett has shown what he can do when he’s surrounded by some of the top offensive linemen and running backs in the league. His passer rating in those two games is 106.2, his completion percentage 74.1. In three games, those numbers stand at 94.3 and 66.3. His career-best QBR was 88.0 with the Indianapolis Colts in 2019. His best passing percentage was 62.7 in 2021 with the Miami Dolphins.Since his emotional and clunky Browns debut in a 26-24 victory at Carolina, Brissett had zip on the ball and made plays with his feet.
He showed how much that mobility meant to him Thursday, when he picked up 6 yards on a third-and-1 from the Steelers 14 with 11:32 remaining in the fourth quarter and responded with a fist pump worthy of Tiger Woods. His gain kept alive an 11-play, 80-yard touchdown drive that put the Browns ahead 23-14.
Brissett honesty in discussing his emotions about that play gave a glimpse of why his teammates are so devoted to him.
“I was thinking about that on the sideline because I have never been able to do that in a game,” Brissett said. “Every time I see a quarterback do that in a game, I am like, ‘Dang, that is so sick. I want to do that one time.’
“I told myself if I get a sneak, I am doing it. I almost blacked out. The flow of the game, just being excited, letting my emotions show and not holding things in, just being present.”
The Browns’ Oct. 2 game at Atlanta concludes the confidence-building portion of the schedule before they are thrown into the fire against the Los Angeles Chargers on Oct. 9. Before Watson’s scheduled return to action on Dec. 4 at Houston, the Browns also take on the New England Patriots, Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals, Dolphins, Buffalo Bills and Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Brissett could come back down to earth against teams like the Chargers, Bills and Bucs. But the chemistry he’s building with four-time Pro Bowler Amari Cooper, who became the first Browns receiver to have back-to-back 100-yard games in nine years, and tight end David Njoku bodes well. No longer does a sub-.500 record with Brissett at the helm look inevitable.
Cooper sees something in Brissett, drafted by the Patriots in the third round in 2016, even though Brissett is with his fourth NFL team, three in the past three years.
“I think he’s proven obviously he can win, but I don’t think he’s proven anything we didn’t already know about him,” Cooper said. “I don’t think he would be in the league if he wasn’t a good quarterback at this point. He’s been in the league a long time, he’s a veteran and he’s a really good player. We’re really glad to have him.”
Running back Kareem Hunt was just as enthused about Brissett.
“He's doing a great job leading us and he's hungry, too, man,” Hunt said. “He's a heck of a football player going out there and showing what he can do.”
After Brissett completed 21 of 31 for 220 yards and two touchdowns without an interception against the Steelers and ran three times for 11 yards, Browns coach Kevin Stefanski found some things to nitpick.
“He was solid. Didn’t start fast,” Stefanski said. “I have to get him going early and get our offense going early. Made some throws and made some big throws in big moments. Battled. He is doing a nice job.”
But from Brissett’s teammates, the raves kept on coming.
“Under pressure, he's making the right plays, making the right reads. He's very calm in the pocket. He trusts us and we trust him,” All-Pro right tackle Jack Conklin said.
“He's done great for us. He's just a charismatic, natural leader. He has a standard that he wants to play to and that he wants to hold guys to. It's cool to see,” All-Pro left guard Joel Bitonio said. “He's been around some of the great quarterbacks in the game, and I think he just carries himself that way.”
Brissett even has supporters on the defensive side of the ball.
“He’s poised. He makes phenomenal plays. It’s not like he is just managing the game,” free safety John Johnson III said. “He’s creating things, buying time ... He’s running and getting crucial first downs. He's been unbelievable.
“The thing that sticks out to me is that I look up at the scoreboard, and we had scored like 30 points or 29 so I am like if we can score 30, there is no reason why we should lose games.”
Going into the season, the presumption was that the defense would have to carry the Browns until Watson returned. No one saw 28.3 points per game (seventh in the league) coming. No one outside Browns headquarters, that is.
After the Browns visit the Falcons, there surely will be some rough times ahead. But thus far those have largely been confined to the defense and special teams. The run-heavy offense with Nick Chubb and Hunt has been efficient, especially with Brissett’s 6.5 average yards per attempt ranking 25th in the league. The Browns 378.7 yards per game stand ninth in the NFL.
Brissett has answered a lot of questions and silenced a lot of doubters through three games, even though he doesn’t seem to concern himself with outside perceptions.
"I am not in this to answer anybody’s questions,” he said. “I am in here to play good football, play for my teammates and enjoy this moment.
“That is really what it is all about. I can look those guys in their faces and tell them I am giving them my best. That is what I look forward to.”
Yes, we were wrong about Brissett. We were very, very wrong. So much so that in games that would be chalked up as a loss without a thought, Brissett may give the Browns a fighting chance.
Marla Ridenour can be reached at mridenour@thebeaconjournal.com. Follow her on Twitter at
www.twitter.com/MRidenourABJ.
Concentrating more on the JB part of it, I want to reiterate that his calm, steady demeanor and performance is good for the rest of the teams. He leadership is understated, but I think that is exactly what this team needs. He doesn't hold the ball too long. He keeps his eyes downfield when pressured instead of crumbling or escaping the pocket before he should. He puts nice zip on the ball in the intermediate range. And like I suggested earlier on in this very thread, he won't throw a ton of interceptions and take needless sacks. I think Stefanski has once again brought out the best in his qb and JB does what he is asked. I don't think he is a guy who elevates others due to him making great throws and I don't think he can put the team on his back. However, he knows his role and is doing what he needs to do be an integral part of our success. The crazy thing is that he is our backup qb. Things are looking bright.
The OBJ Baker thing is so weird I don't really know what the truth is. The only thing I know for sure is a categorical lie is that OBJ was running the wrong routes. That doesn't even make any sense.
As for Stefanski he deserves a lot of credit for the rebound win last night. He is also responsible for the whole picture, including all sides of the ball and the coaches he hired to coach them.
When we are consistent across the entire operation no one will heap more praise than me.
Browns players praise QB Jacoby Brissett after big win over the Steelers Jeff Risdon
September 23, 2022 9:00 am ET
The Cleveland Browns captured an important victory on Thursday night, beating back the rival Pittsburgh Steelers 29-17 in a nationally televised game. Cleveland’s win came in no small part due to a great game from quarterback Jacoby Brissett.
Brissett was in complete command of the Browns offense all night. He delivered crisp, accurate passes to the best options. No. 7 completed 21 of his 31 pass attempts for 220 yards and two TDs. It was Brissett at his finest.
His teammates appreciated how well Brissett played in the primetime triumph.
Right tackle Jack Conklin, who played well in his own right, offered this on Brissett,
“Just great leadership. Under pressure he is making the right plays and making the right reads. He is very calm in the pocket. He trusts us, and we trust him.”
That sentiment was shared by wide receiver Amari Cooper, who was on the receiving end of seven of Brissett’s completions, hitting 101 yards and a touchdown.
“I think he has proven that he can win,” Cooper said. “I don’t think he has proven anything that we didn’t already know about him. I don’t think he would be in the league if he wasn’t a good quarterback at this point. He has been in the league a long time. He is a veteran and a good player. We are glad to have him.”
Related
Jacoby Brissett on star wide out Amari Cooper: ‘He is a great player, teammate’
“He is doing a great job leading us,” running back Kareem Hunt said. “He is hungry, too. He is a heck of a football player going out there and showing what we can do.”
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter
I disagree. Dude would not throw the ball to OBJ because he was jealous of the latter. He put out a shirt about being unleashed right before our game. I could go on and on and I won't trash you for your opinion. I still think we are a better team w/JB than we would be w/Baker. Imagine how good we will be next year w/Watson? I'm hoping you are finally going to give Stefanski some credit...
And there you have it, you have managed to derail a thread about Jacoby with Baker. I'm sure you're proud of your accomplishment.
Brissett was letting it rip last night. Could not be happier with his play.
guys, can we all take time to appreciate how many batted balls at the LoS we ARENT seeing game to game on a regular basis? i get it that it happens, but i think JB only had one batted down last night, and im sure it happened but i cant remember any in the first 2 games.
j/c,
It's amazing what a little confidence can do for a player. He probably would not have had the confidence to make that TD throw to Njoku in week one. Now Jacoby is confident and playing uninhibited by others expectations of him and having fun in the process.
He's doing a damned fine job and I agree with you that you could see his confidence grow as the games have gone on.
That's a good point, Swish.
guys, can we all take time to appreciate how many batted balls at the LoS we ARENT seeing game to game on a regular basis? i get it that it happens, but i think JB only had one batted down last night, and im sure it happened but i cant remember any in the first 2 games.
I really loathed the batted balls from our QBs' in the recent past team history.
j/c,
It's amazing what a little confidence can do for a player. He probably would not have had the confidence to make that TD throw to Njoku in week one. Now Jacoby is confident and playing uninhibited by others expectations of him and having fun in the process.
There is a huge difference in the way JB has played these last two games vs week 1. He was probably really nervous in that game. He did not turn the ball over that game, but he missed a bunch of throws. He's been zipping the ball in there the last two weeks.
guys, can we all take time to appreciate how many batted balls at the LoS we ARENT seeing game to game on a regular basis? i get it that it happens, but i think JB only had one batted down last night, and im sure it happened but i cant remember any in the first 2 games.
I actually thought of that in game one when our DL knocked down at least 5 at the LOS. Who knows, maybe some will happen, but it's nice to have not had to deal with many.
j/c,
It's amazing what a little confidence can do for a player. He probably would not have had the confidence to make that TD throw to Njoku in week one. Now Jacoby is confident and playing uninhibited by others expectations of him and having fun in the process.
There is a huge difference in the way JB has played these last two games vs week 1. He was probably really nervous in that game. He did not turn the ball over that game, but he missed a bunch of throws. He's been zipping the ball in there the last two weeks.
Jacoby is playing free ... but not care free with the ball and that is pleasing to see from a Browns QB with these old eyes ... not playing reckless and dangerously ... just getting the ball into the hands of our playmakers. It's soooo refreshing 😌
I forgot to mention Jacoby's shirt from last night. Here it is for those who did not see it. Gotta love it!!!!
Brissett was letting it rip last night. Could not be happier with his play.
Agreed. Plus, the guy comes across as an all-around good human. Hard not to root for people like that.
He had an incompletion last night that was one of my favorite plays. Since we were playing the Steelers I’ll equate it to ol Big Ben. Went through his reads stepped up in the pocket, there was nowhere safe to throw it. Defender gets a grasp of him and he used his size to avoid the sack by getting the ball out where there wouldn’t be a grounding call but there was no turnover risk.
Especially at Indy I was always frustrated because he seemed to play smaller than he is and took over 50 sacks that one season where he was the full time starter.
A small testament to him learning and improving - it caught my eye ….. I have my reservations about Watson when he comes back but at least we know there is a true pro in that QB room.
Agreed, RAW.
Reminded me of Ben as well. Those plays are demoralizing to a defense. Held the ball strong, absorbed the contact, negated a positive play for the defense.
I disagree. Dude would not throw the ball to OBJ because he was jealous of the latter. He put out a shirt about being unleashed right before our game. I could go on and on and I won't trash you for your opinion. I still think we are a better team w/JB than we would be w/Baker. Imagine how good we will be next year w/Watson? I'm hoping you are finally going to give Stefanski some credit...
OBJ couldn't catch anything but a cold here. WHY would Baker throw to him when they need yards?
j/c,
It's amazing what a little confidence can do for a player. He probably would not have had the confidence to make that TD throw to Njoku in week one. Now Jacoby is confident and playing uninhibited by others expectations of him and having fun in the process.
There is a huge difference in the way JB has played these last two games vs week 1. He was probably really nervous in that game. He did not turn the ball over that game, but he missed a bunch of throws. He's been zipping the ball in there the last two weeks.
He was outstanding last night Vers. And if he keeps it up, I may have to admit he's better than Baker. But not quite yet. Nothing in his past shows me that. But his play now does. Let him play these 11, then revisit this. But for now, Baker is no longer here, Why do you keep stirring the board up with those constant references? It's almost like you want the fighting between us fans. And it was never really about Baker vs. Brissett. It was about Baker over Watson due to his charges. Had we kept baker but brought in Brissett and he played like this, the whole narrative would be different. I'm extremely surprised and happy with the way Brissett is playing, the first game included. TBH, if he can play like that most weeks, I'm not very sure Watson can outplay him. Right now, Brissett is on fire.
And I'm happy to say that's my QB.
Brissett is playing inside the system. The only comparison I'll make between JB and Baker is that JB has a better understanding of his limitations. If anything, he underestimates what he might be able to do and doesn't try to make certain plays where Baker overestimated his ability and tried to make plays he probably shouldn't.
No doubt Baker has more ability but he might not be a better QB, if that makes any sense.
Brissett is playing inside the system. The only comparison I'll make between JB and Baker is that JB has a better understanding of his limitations. If anything, he underestimates what he might be able to do and doesn't try to make certain plays where Baker overestimated his ability and tried to make plays he probably shouldn't.
No doubt Baker has more ability but he might not be a better QB, if that makes any sense.
I think that is true. I also ask you to consider this. Playing from behind the chains is tough to do. It shortens possessions and puts more pressure on your defense because they are on the field longer. There are little things to consider. JB will stand tall in the pocket and make a throw in the face of the rush. Baker used to lower his eyes and take sacks. Big difference from being in 2nd and 18 vs 2nd and 3. Or picking up a first down vs being 3rd and 12. Also, we are now having fewer passes that are batted down. Again, that affects the down and distance situations. Fumbled snaps are another factor in down and distance situations. And going it to this season, Baker leads the lead in interceptions since 2018. All of the above matters over the course of a season.
On the other hand, Baker has a superior arm. He also has a greater ability to make big plays in the passing game. We haven't had to play from behind much this year and I have serious doubts that Jacoby is going to be able to stand toe to toe w/the likes of Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, etc. When we get Watson back next year, the playing field will be leveled for us against those elite QBs. For now, I am enjoying the season and JB is playing better than I thought he would and also taking care of the little things just like I predicted he would.
JB has played well these pst 2 games. The 1st game he played poorly.
I am wondering if game 1 was so bad because Watson got all the training camp reps and Dobbs got the majority of preseason snaps.
It should go without question that Brissett is playing lights out these last 2-games. I would think that it would be difficult to place any blame on Brissett at this point. I also believe that we should see a similar type of production next week. However, let's not forget that these first 4-games were the part of the schedule the Browns were supposed to exceed expectations. Facing Mayfield, Flacco, Trubisky, and Mariota the first 4-games is not the same as facing Herbert, Jones, Jackson and Burrow. At this stage of the game, our defense will not be competitive against those teams which will mean Brissett and the offense will have to open up to be competitive. The question has been and always will be can Brissett be efficient enough against the top tier teams. That day is approaching fast and at this point, I'm not sure yet. Defensively, it's looking like it'll be very ugly.
My biggest offensive concern and has been the poor play of Wills at LT. Through 3-games now, he's graded out offensively at 56.7 and allowed the only sack of Brissett this week on an isolation play where he got beat badly. Watts wasn't playing either so my concern for Brissett's safety is warranted as our level of competition that will step up dramatically after next week. His run blocking is even worse than his overall score being at 51.3 through 3-games. That tells me the Browns can't run left without help for Wells. If I can see it, so can these better teams coming up on the schedule. With Mack and Bosa coming up in 2-weeks, Brissett better order an extra set of chicken pads with Wills at LT.
Brissett is playing inside the system. The only comparison I'll make between JB and Baker is that JB has a better understanding of his limitations. If anything, he underestimates what he might be able to do and doesn't try to make certain plays where Baker overestimated his ability and tried to make plays he probably shouldn't.
No doubt Baker has more ability but he might not be a better QB, if that makes any sense.
All of that makes perfect sense. It's early in the season yet, but Jacoby looks great and is playing within himself and the system.
I don't think you can assume poor defensive play.
The play of Wills has not stopped the Browns from running in either direction.
The teams that once looked to be bad match-ups are no longer looking that way.
See NE, Chargers, Bengals, Ravens. They are good teams but do not look invincible at all.
Teams are always viewed by the media and others by their starters. The season is an equalizer because backups become starters. If a team does not have good roster depth it will get exposed.
PFF is not the end all. Watch the breakdowns on some of the successful runs. Wills is doing his job.
Is he as good as Teller or Bitonio? No he is not. He gets beat sometimes. But he also wins sometimes.
It should go without question that Brissett is playing lights out these last 2-games. I would think that it would be difficult to place any blame on Brissett at this point. I also believe that we should see a similar type of production next week. However, let's not forget that these first 4-games were the part of the schedule the Browns were supposed to exceed expectations. Facing Mayfield, Flacco, Trubisky, and Mariota the first 4-games is not the same as facing Herbert, Jones, Jackson and Burrow. At this stage of the game, our defense will not be competitive against those teams which will mean Brissett and the offense will have to open up to be competitive. The question has been and always will be can Brissett be efficient enough against the top tier teams. That day is approaching fast and at this point, I'm not sure yet. Defensively, it's looking like it'll be very ugly.
My biggest offensive concern and has been the poor play of Wills at LT. Through 3-games now, he's graded out offensively at 56.7 and allowed the only sack of Brissett this week on an isolation play where he got beat badly. Watts wasn't playing either so my concern for Brissett's safety is warranted as our level of competition that will step up dramatically after next week. His run blocking is even worse than his overall score being at 51.3 through 3-games. That tells me the Browns can't run left without help for Wells. If I can see it, so can these better teams coming up on the schedule. With Mack and Bosa coming up in 2-weeks, Brissett better order an extra set of chicken pads with Wills at LT.
Last year started the same. Strong O, weak D. As the season progressed, they flipped strengths. I would be a bit surprised to see this D play strong this week and moving forward. I think the willpower of the O woke them up in the second half. I also think letting them play man helped a lot. Unlike others, I don't think Woods is gone during the season, but I do think he's the glaring weak link in the coaching staff.
I don't think you can assume poor defensive play.
The play of Wills has not stopped the Browns from running in either direction.
The teams that once looked to be bad match-ups are no longer looking that way.
See NE, Chargers, Bengals, Ravens. They are good teams but do not look invincible at all.
Teams are always viewed by the media and others by their starters. The season is an equalizer because backups become starters. If a team does not have good roster depth it will get exposed.
PFF is not the end all. Watch the breakdowns on some of the successful runs. Wills is doing his job.
Is he as good as Teller or Bitonio? No he is not. He gets beat sometimes. But he also wins sometimes.
I'm not assuming anything. What I am doing is evaluating what they are doing on the field. If you think the defense will get better, you're the one assuming. I'll take what they have done through 3-games and go with that until they prove different. Ward being highest paid but dead last in rating is not a good sign. Losing Walker is going to hurt. Having the lowest rated DT's in the entire NFL doesn't scream success either. As it's taken 2-3 games for the offense to look respectable, the other teams get that same waiver. Like I said, let's see what they do when the level of competition steps up.
Finally, if you think Wills is doing his job, you are watching him through rose-colored glasses. He's the weak link on the OL - and has been the weak link. It's like it's been said before in this forum, if you're going to rant and rave about the players with outstanding PFF Grades (and rightfully so), those players with equally poor grades are being evaluated just as fair. When the most important position on your OL (the LT protecting your QB's blind side) is performing at a level (53rd currently out of 66 OT's rated) you have a serious problem that is going to show issues that is going to hurt this team. Add to that fact that his 51.3 run blocking grade is nothing less than horrible and I totally disagree - he is not doing his job. Plus, he's in his option year determination. Would you really exercise his 5th year option for what he's been graded at LT since coming to the Browns?
So a three game sample determines the year. I think not.
How about the last half of the Steeler game. You could use that. Since it is the most current. The reality is the same people on defense played well together last season.
The Browns finished fifth in the league in pass defense in 2021.
So there is that.
Since you love PFF as the football evaluation bible.
Try this. Watch the games really closely. Then take the PFF grading system and then apply with your grade. Instead of regurgitating stats.
Did I not say Wills was not Teller or Bitonio? Did I not say he gets beat at times?
Jacoby has had time for the most part to throw.
Maybe I am all wet. But it sure seems that everything you post comes from looking at the dark side.
Ward (an All Pro) is ranked "dead last." There is not a team in the NFL who would not want Ward. "Let's see what happens when the competition gets tough." Well we will wait and see.
"it's taken 2-3 games for the offense to look respectable." Like that is not expected with a backup quarterback and receivers he has not played with.
Njoku is a bust. He looked Ok against the Steelers. Wills is ranked 53 rd he plays the blind side. How many sacks have been given up? Four.
Lighten up Francis. Maybe we are better than you think. Or, continue as is and maybe we will fulfill your prophecy of doom and then you can say "see I told we suck."
Kevin Stefanski says Jacoby Brissett's leadership has been a boon for Browns through three weeksJohn Dillon
September 24, 2022 10:20 am ET
In recent years, the Cleveland Browns have sometimes seemed to be a rudderless ship. Whether because of coaching, leadership in the locker room, or discord in the front office, the team has struggled mightily to get themselves on any sustained course for success, and seasons have been wasted.
This 2022 campaign has a different feeling, though, and the Browns’ win over the Pittsburgh Steelers was an example of their seismic shift toward legitimate contention. Coming off a disappointing loss in Week 2, the team regrouped and put together a winning game plan to beat their divisional rivals handily in primetime.
Head coach Kevin Stefanski has certainly done his part to architect a new culture within the organization, but his comments to the media on Friday tell a story of an unlikely hero who has been integral to the team’s early success. He told reporters that his bridge quarterback, Jacoby Brissett, has been the steady hand at the helm of the Browns that they have needed, and that players and coaches alike are starting to take notice.
“I think you guys know Jacoby,” Stefanski explained, “Know how he operates, how he carries himself and those types of things. I think that does have an impact on your football team when your quarterback is like that. I would also tell you we have a bunch of leaders on this team. We met. We talked like we always do every single week. I think those guys understand the role they play with our team and setting the direction.”
Leadership was one of the deciding factors in Cleveland’s decision to cut Baker Mayfield loose earlier this year, and the team is clearly looking for their quarterback to have certain qualities moving forward. Brissett has been an unlikely hero for the team so far this season, and with his help, the Browns will continue to develop and reach their full potential by the time their permanent starting quarterback takes over later in the season.
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/202...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter
Expectations for Jacoby.
Anything more than I75 yards
A 75 passer rating
One touchdown,
and 20 positive yards running
Anything more than that, anything over that is Jacoby exceeding expectations on a given week.
I95 yards maybe.
I am going to make a suggestion to you. Take it or leave it.
Jake Burns has a podcast weekly after the games on OBR. It would be worth your time to listen. He is a knowledgeable guy who provides valuable insight.
He incorporates PFF but he also explains things beyond that.
Things like the importance of having Njoku as a three down TE and what that means.
How teams defense Myles. Percentages used in different defensive coverages. Personnel groupings. Importance of certain plays.
Helpful to understand what are behind just numbers.
Right now, he’s worth $230 mill. When Deshaun gets off his suspension, and JB keeps playing well in the interim, what would you do? Just throwing that out there.
Edit: Jacoby is easy to root for. His pocket presence, on-time delivery has surprised me. He’s tough, has a quick delivery, been mostly accurate. JB may falter and come back to earth, but he might not.
You start DW.
That’s why he’s here and now you're confident Jacoby can run the offense if called upon if an injury occurs.
This is the same thing as when Lamar Jackson went down last year. If Tyler Huntley would’ve played well the rest of the season, you still start Lamar the following season. He’s your franchise guy.
Right now, he’s worth $230 mill. When Deshaun gets off his suspension, and JB keeps playing well in the interim, what would you do? Just throwing that out there.
Play Watson.
You don't go out and spend a quarter of a $billion, take PR hit after PT hit and then decide to play Brissett.
I would hope that the performance of the team figures in the equation somewhere...
If Brissett is playing well and the Browns are in contention for a playoff spot, Stefanski would be foolish to pull Brissett in favor of DW, imo.
Team goals should take precedent over the owners personal goals, imo.
This is the topic of the great "what if."
It was not long ago everyone felt Jacoby stunk. The season was over.
Jacoby is a backup. He is doing his job. He was brought here to do what he is doing. Berry, the coaching staff, and the players believe in Jacoby.
It is a great that he is improving and getting comfortable in the system.
However, when Watson returns. He is the starter. He is a better quarterback than Jacoby. He gives the team the best chance to win because he can do more things than Jacoby. The money was mentioned. It is in important but only for the reason that he is payed that amount because he has played at that level.
This will not be a controversy. Watson is the starter and Jacoby is the backup.
Brissett has played awesome, but it’ll come back to earth a little bit … at least to his “norm” especially once teams have more tape of us.
I still think we’ll be something like 5-6 or 4-7 when Watson is back, but hopefully I’m wrong.
Atlanta is a tougher game than originally thought. That offense is good.
NE/LAC are not as tough as originally thought. Both have injury concerns right now.
Baltimore, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Miami, and Tampa will be big time uphill battles.
Every game is tough.
All those teams that before the season began that looked invincible. Don't look all that great now.
People looked at the schedule and freaked out before a game was played. Chargers, Bengals, Patriots, Bucs, Bills, Ravens.
Those are still tough games but not impossible. The Fins beat the Bills and the Ravens.
So going to Atlanta to play is no cupcake. They have offensive talent and are at home coming off a win.
I have never paid attention to the schedule because last teams are not this years teams. Backups become starters because of injury.
You can only play the schedule one game at a time.
Falcons next and we have to be ready to play them. They have a mobile quarterback and weapons on offense.
I'll say it again...if Brissett is playing well and the team is in contention for a playoff birth...TEAM GOALS COME FIRST..!
Also, looking at the lack of playing time that DW has over the last two seasons, missing 17 games two seasons ago and 11 starts this season...don't expect DW to play lights out, if he does get to play this season.
You don't sacrifice the effort and work of "the entire football team" just to get the high dollar guy some snaps.
Now, on the flip side, if Brissett doesn't continue to improve and deliver Ws...and the Browns are not in contention for a playoff spot...play DW.
I'll say it again...if Brissett is playing well and the team is in contention for a playoff birth...TEAM GOALS COME FIRST..!
Your bias clouds your thinking. Playing Watson is putting the team first.
in terms of Atlanta, their three weapons will rival any three weapons we’ll face: London, Patterson, and Pitts. I’m most worried about Pitts, especially if JOK isn’t healthy.
Their defense is not good, however. I’m expecting a higher scoring game than I’ve predicted the first 3 weeks.
I'll say it again...if Brissett is playing well and the team is in contention for a playoff birth...TEAM GOALS COME FIRST..!
Your bias clouds your thinking. Playing Watson is putting the team first.
During this thread, there was a lot of talk about Baker and Jacoby. I had at least one poster call me a liar because I gave the opinion that Jacoby might take fewer needless sacks and throw fewer picks than Baker. I also gave the opinion that the team might benefit from a qb who is more steady and less divisive. Got a ton of nasty replies for giving my opinion. So, I'll be keeping track of how things proceed.
Through three games:
QBR: Jacoby at 62.6, which is 9th overall. Baker at 19.5, which is 32nd out of 32.
Sacks: JB @ 4. BM @ 9
Interceptions: Jacoby and Baker w/one each.
Rating: JB at 94.3, which is 11th. BM at 80.8, which is 25th.
TDs: JB w/4. BM w/3.
Comp. %: Jacoby @ 66.3, which is 10th overall. Baker @ 51.9, which is 31st.
I'll say it again...if Brissett is playing well and the team is in contention for a playoff birth...TEAM GOALS COME FIRST..!
Your bias clouds your thinking. Playing Watson is putting the team first.
What makes you think Watson is the same player he was 2 years ago? We dont know how he is going to play until he does.
Bird in the hand....
Right now, he’s worth $230 mill. When Deshaun gets off his suspension, and JB keeps playing well in the interim, what would you do? Just throwing that out there.
Edit: Jacoby is easy to root for. His pocket presence, on-time delivery has surprised me. He’s tough, has a quick delivery, been mostly accurate. JB may falter and come back to earth, but he might not.
The team will obviously play Watson as soon as he can go. But JB playing like this offers some degree of relief if Watson fails to be reinstated for whatever reason. None of us know if DW is going to meet the league's expectations in counseling or if he will do something stupid during the course of the year. I've thought all along that he has a sex addiction of some sort. It's the only thing I can think of that explains the number of women over 17 months IMO. And if JB is getting it done, has us on the doorstep of the playoffs, fans will lose their minds if Watson loses a game or two coming back.
I'll say it again...if Brissett is playing well and the team is in contention for a playoff birth...TEAM GOALS COME FIRST..!
Your bias clouds your thinking. Playing Watson is putting the team first.
What makes you think Watson is the same player he was 2 years ago? We dont know how he is going to play until he does.
Bird in the hand....
I did not say that. I'm saying I will trust the coaches to make the correct decision. JB is doing a very good job. He's playing better than I thought and I give him and Stefanski credit for that. However, Watson is a guy who can put the team on his back and elevate others. I'll trust the coaches on whatever decision they make when the time comes. I think they know more about each guy than any of us do.
Honestly, and no offense. You are getting ahead of yourself.
Eight games need to be played. Your opinion could change after Sunday.
Team goals. The coaches will play the players that give "the team" the best chance to win.
Watson is the player who will give the team the best chance to win. Jacoby is not making $45m a year for reasons.
Watson is making that jack for reasons.
From what I read about JB and confirmed by the limited view from ONE PRESEASON Game point blank he just is not accurate. Even his completions are passes that the WRs have to make a play on them.
One thing about this claim on holding onto the ball and showing his average time from snap to release. You have to remember our passing game is predicated on play action pass. This was told to us from the beginning and it was exactly how our O operated. Go time the average Play action pass from snap to release. Especially when there is a boot leg involved. Put things in perspective thats all.
Our defense will define our outcome for this game and probably the season. We will have to tire out our opponents defense with first downs via runs or West Coast passing game.
jmho
Hopefully JB will be good at executing screens.
Accuracy is a huge issue and has been before the Browns even signed him. There's no question he has a strong arm but getting the pass to the receiver where it's catchable is an issue. I fully expect the Panthers will go all out to stop the run. Their game plan will surely be to make Brissett beat them through the air. Stopping the run will eliminate the play action and force Brissett into a standard passing game. Offensively, that will put the game on the shoulders of the WR's and TE's to not only get open but to make the difficult catch if Brissett's passes are inaccurate per his history. If Brissett becomes uncomfortable, sacks will come into play with his moments of indecision. If the mid-range passing becomes successful, Chubb and Hunt will become huge factors in the Browns success because the Panthers will have to adjust to play honest.
Brissett needs to be better than 60% completion rate with over 225 yds for the Browns to be successful today. Scoring less than 20 points today spells trouble for the Browns. Falling behind early spells even bigger problems. If Brissett can come out hot and force the Panthers to change their defense, then I like our chances. If he's inaccurate early, it will be a very long day. Of course, all this hinges on Stefanski adjusting his game plan if needed and I'm really not comfortable with him changing his stripes but I hope he proves me wrong.
Watson is still a scumbag Even if he is getting away with it legally. He was wrong in what he did and has not shown any remorse.
jmho
Honestly, and no offense. You are getting ahead of yourself.
Eight games need to be played. Your opinion could change after Sunday.
Team goals. The coaches will play the players that give "the team" the best chance to win.
Watson is the player who will give the team the best chance to win. Jacoby is not making $45m a year for reasons.
Watson is making that jack for reasons.
"I'll say it again...if Brissett is playing well and the team is in contention for a playoff birth...TEAM GOALS COME FIRST..!"
bonefish, see that word..."IF"..? I thought it was obvious that I qualified my answer based on a couple of actions that had to occur.
pulled it from the other games thread
damn son
I got the "if" it will not matter.
If we went 10-1 Jacoby will go to the bench.
No if's and's or but's.
benched with a 10-1 record? NOPE. If he does that, he gets the year. Unless that record comes with QB struggles, that is.
No sense in argument with a 2-1 record.
Because the future in untold.
When Watson returns. He will play. IMO.
No sense in argument with a 2-1 record.
Because the future in untold.
When Watson returns. He will play. IMO.
I expect that too, but if JB has a 10-1 record heading into the playoffs, no way he gets benched. Now after that playoff spot is secured, I could see it if they think DW gives us the better chance. We have no idea how good or bad he will play, or if he even will. He has to get reinstated yet, and that all depends on him doing everything they ask of him while showing he actually gets it. If he's still refusing to personally accept any fault, he's not coming back IMHO.
I got the "if" it will not matter.
If we went 10-1 Jacoby will go to the bench.
No if's and's or but's.
Not in a MILLION YEARS. Watson would be the official backup at that point.
8-3 or better would make this a very difficult decision, regardless of Brissett's numbers... and not just because of their talent and ability.
Well I will put it this way.
I hope we have that problem and decision to make.
Me too! That would be awesome!
No sense in argument with a 2-1 record.
Because the future in untold.
When Watson returns. He will play. IMO.
I expect that too, but if JB has a 10-1 record heading into the playoffs, no way he gets benched. Now after that playoff spot is secured, I could see it if they think DW gives us the better chance. We have no idea how good or bad he will play, or if he even will. He has to get reinstated yet, and that all depends on him doing everything they ask of him while showing he actually gets it. If he's still refusing to personally accept any fault, he's not coming back IMHO.
Brissett would 100% get benched.
10-1 would all but guarantee us a playoff spot and give Watson the time to knock the rust off.
Watson's contract is 100% guaranteed
Brissett's contract is for 1 year.
Watson is a significant upgrade over Brissett
There's a looooong way to go. All you can say is that Brissett has probably exceeded any expectations any of us could have. Long may it continue no matter what it means for week 12.
Not to be negative, but I don't think we will be 10 and 1. We've had an easy schedule thus far. I read where we might only win 2 games all year. Or, three or four. Quite a few said 6. I am just enjoying how the team is playing [for the most part.] The offense is playing beyond expectations. I think guys like bone, Scott, and myself that our OL, RBs, and scheme could make us a solid team and our expectations were higher than most. Then again, I think we all thought the defense would be playing better. It's early, but overall, I'm very pleased w/the team.
They will be looking to extend Bissett if he keeps this up, no doubt.
In addition to all the numbers I compared between Jacoby and Baker, there is this from PFF.
Jacoby is ranked 3rd overall at 78.7
Baker is ranked 32nd out of 33 at 43.3
In addition to all the numbers I compared between Jacoby and Baker, there is this from PFF.
Jacoby is ranked 3rd overall at 78.7
Baker is ranked 32nd out of 33 at 43.3
And their offensive lines are almost identical.
For a few that think there's a possibility, lets not use our team as an example since that brings emotion into it and can cloud things.
You are in the same scenario (backup is starting, starter is out for extended games), and the back up plays solid
Do you keep starting (when the starter comes back):
Case Keenum over Josh Allen?
Cooper Rush over Dak Prescott?
Jordan Love over Aaron Rogers?
Chad Heene over Patrick Mahomes?
Chase Daniel over Justin Herbert?
Brandon Allen over Joe Burrow?
Mike White over Joe Flacco? (ok, we all this one is true)
If your response is: well obviously I am going to go with those franchise QBs no matter how the backup plays....then, there's your answer to the JB vs DW question.
Wasn't Brady winning games and NE playing well when Bledsoe was healed up and ready to go, and they stayed with the winning hand?
My main concern is we dont know how Watson will play. After 2 years he is an unknown.
I don't remember his age, but Brady was around 23ish and a rookie. Jacoby isn't a rookie or second year player in his early 20s. There are other differences, too.
For a few that think there's a possibility, lets not use our team as an example since that brings emotion into it and can cloud things.
You are in the same scenario (backup is starting, starter is out for extended games), and the back up plays solid
Do you keep starting (when the starter comes back):
Case Keenum over Josh Allen?
Cooper Rush over Dak Prescott?
Jordan Love over Aaron Rogers?
Chad Heene over Patrick Mahomes?
Chase Daniel over Justin Herbert?
Brandon Allen over Joe Burrow?
Mike White over Joe Flacco? (ok, we all this one is true)
If your response is: well obviously I am going to go with those franchise QBs no matter how the backup plays....then, there's your answer to the JB vs DW question.
Yep. To quote Dean Wormer, the chance that Brissett Wally Pipp's Watson is "zero point zero."
The question of rust has come up a bunch.
I have tried to work through that by mostly experience.
Watson was at every off season work out. He went through training camp and pre-season.
Watson training Plan:
"That plan will be enacted this week by Avery and Watson who, for the time being, and until Watson’s allowed in the building, won’t be allowed to have contact with Browns coaches or anyone else with the team. As I’ve heard it, Watson and Avery will conduct sessions to include field drills, film and board work four days per week, and that’ll go for the next five weeks, with Watson allowed to return to the Browns’ practice facility Oct. 10, and begin practicing five weeks after that Nov. 14, ahead of his Dec. 4 return to the game field.
At least on paper, that looks like plenty of time for Watson to get reacclimated, though it’s fair to ask how rusty he’ll look after about 23 months without playing in a real NFL game.
The concept of rust is an interesting conversation regarding a football player, especially for a position that doesn't inherently involve contact. Maybe Watson will have some nerves in returning that will not be resolved until he takes a real shot, but that position doesn't need traditional hitting the way a running back or defensive end would to get acclimated to the game.
A quarterback can be quite sharp, because so much of the work he will be doing with his personal quarterback coach Quincy Avery will keep his throwing mechanics in peak form. The ball should come out of his hand cleanly and on the mark in terms of his accuracy and velocity.
Ideally, he'd be able to work at least 7-on-7 to keep his reads sharp, but that's not realistic. Nevertheless, the real issue for Watson coming back isn't likely to be how he's throwing the ball. It's more in terms of chemistry.
How much practice time do the Browns really want to invest in getting Watson acclimated when he's in the building as they attempt to win games with Jacoby Brissett? It's not likely to be much if any.
How much additional time are receivers and tight ends going to put in beyond their normal week to get Watson ready? The Browns may be counting on this because like it or not, most of the wide receivers on this team are auditioning for 2023, so there is a major incentive for putting in extra work with Watson as a way to secure a roster spot on the team next year.
The biggest X-factor with Watson is his mental fitness. It's not going to be easy to walk into what could be the most hostile environment he will ever play, in the stadium and against the team that drafted him when the Browns travel to play the Houston Texans. He's never been hated his entire career. That could be jarring.
How much has this entire process weighed on Watson? It's anyone's guess how that part will impact Watson and his play.
It's unlikely the Browns will be firing on all cylinders when Watson takes the field, because there will be a feeling out process that will be termed 'rust' when it comes to Watson, but it has more to do with getting accustomed to teammates in live games as opposed to Watson simply trying to learn to ride a bike again. He's been practicing football for months and isn't going to stop during his suspension."
Watson will be able to study in depth the teams he will face. He will be in excellent condition. He will be motivated.
He will have time to practice and get the timing with receivers.
I think the rust is more mental. More of getting to game speed. Seeing the rush.
I don't think it will take long. His mind and reflexes are those of a professional athlete. I would say by his third game he will be the same guy he was.
The first game a bit jittery. The second game slowing things down. Third game ready.
In addition to all the numbers I compared between Jacoby and Baker, there is this from PFF.
Jacoby is ranked 3rd overall at 78.7
Baker is ranked 32nd out of 33 at 43.3
You just can't help yourself can you?
j/c:
I get the talk regarding Watson vs Jacoby, but Watson won't be back until week 12. I'd rather [as a fan] just enjoy what Jacoby is doing for the team right now. I also want to reiterate that I think Stefanski deserves a lot of credit. The guy has endured unfair criticism from a certain portion of the fanbase who have attempted to blame him for the failure of another, but Stefanski is a very good coach. His scheme is qb friendly and he gets the most out of his qbs.
j/c
Nobody knows where the Browns will be when game 12 arrives. Jacoby is playing much better than the vast majority of us ever could have imagined. All you have to base your guess on how a QB will perform is his past performances and Jacoby has shredded that. It's hard to bench a QB who is winning. Not so hard to bench a QB with average results. So where the Browns stand at week 12 I think will be pivotal. There are pluses and minuses to naming the starting QB if the team is winning.
By week 12 there will, and already is to a great extent some chemistry built in the offense. Trying to reestablish that by putting in a new QB is a risky proposition. Nobody can say for sure how watson would perform with almost two years of rust. But it would seem reasonable to expect that rust to be there. So if Brissett is playing at the level he is now, it would be a very risky to bench him for a QB who hasn't seen game action in almost two seasons.
But do they have a choice? I mean watson literally is the 230 mil. dollar man. This season does count against his contract. Then one would have to ask if this coaching staff and FO believes Jacoby can take the Browns to, and have a chance to win the SB? As much as posters mention making the playoffs, they didn't sign watson to that huge contract just to make the playoffs. They did it to win SB's. So IF you think watson will be rusty, IF you think he will need time to get "back to his old self" and IF you don't think Jacoby can win you a SB, why would you wait until next season to go through that process? If you don't believe Brissett can win you the SB, you pretty much have to start watson in week 12. Get the rust out of the way. Get everyone on the same page and build some chemistry going into next season. Get the painful part over with.
Some fans would call that giving up the season. But winning the SB is the ultimate goal of every season. Peen has been saying that ever since I can remember. So you could see replacing Brissett with watson as risking giving up the season or you could see it as investing the end of this season into achieving your ultimate goal. But even at that, if watson can get a few games under his belt and he gets back to his old self quickly, it could be the only chance the Browns have of winning a SB this year.
If watson needs time to adjust back to game speed and build chemistry in this offense, why would you wait to go through that process if you don't believe Jacoby can win you a SB? I have no idea if this coaching staff and FO thinks Jacoby can lead this team to a SB. I know with what they paid watson they believe he can. So to me the decision to start watson even if Jacoby is winning will hinge on that.
All of this conversation is 100% speculation, obviously.
Three things that I think are guard rails in the decision-making process for week 12...
The largest (by far) factor in the QB decision is based on record and standing within division. 7-4 and within a game of the division lead is mandatory minimum for Brissett to keep the job. Anything less, Watson is immediately penciled in.
Next influencing factor comes into play if the ^above^ criteria has been met...
Brisset's performance; particularly in the previous three games. If he is still playing efficiently, has not cost us games, is not making stupid decisions and is healthy? He has probably earned his right to continue as the starter. His teammates (including Deshaun Watson) would agree.
Lastly, the look and efficiency of our offense overall. If we're getting by on guts on plenty of good luck in a sometimes anemic offense, I'm sure the consensus would be that Watson makes us better... immediately. And the variables therein could probably even trump the first two factors.
Fun exercise in nothingness as there are many, many mitigating factors that would make the entire conversation null and void. But the conversation itself is another tip of the cap to Brissett... and there would be nothing better than arguing over starting QB come week 12.
I think anything better than 6 and 5. Which at this point is 4 and 4 in the next 8 games would warrant keeping JB under center longer and bringing Watson along slower. I think when your starting the first 11 games of the season the team is yours in 2022. At 6 and 5 or worse you give Deshawn a chance to take the team to the playoffs. 6 and 5 would be a game over .500 and that is what you want your back up to do. Play just better than .500 and keep the team in the conversation. 7 and 4 or better would probably have the team contending in the division if not out right leading. The Bengals and Steelers would have to go 6 and 2 to be 7 and 4. The Ravens 5 and 3 to be 7 and 4.
j/c
I could get into more in-depth with many things, but two basic ways DW helps us even if he is rusty.
1. His legs - one of the reasons he was dangerous since he entered the league is his threat to run. That takes pressure off of the receivers/TEs/RBs as they have to account for DWs running ability. As for the past 3 games, we have seen Brissett take off a couple times. Now imagine those scrambles with a QB that has more speed and agility.
2. Deep balls - With Brissett the offense is tailored mostly around short to medium routes. Brissett isn't known for his deep passing due to an average to above average arm with average deep ball accuracy ( i am not 100% on his deep ball accuracy). BW is known to have a strong arm and in the past has thrown a beautiful deep ball. Now even if he is "rusty" when he comes back, he is still is a bigger threat to throw that deep ball. Now combine the excellent play designs/route trees by Stef and the threat of DW running, this will change the whole dynamic of how teams will defend us (i.e. stacking the box, as they have done with Brissett). In turn, this should benefit our running game too.
I hear ya.
I have seen it in baseball and football before when this type of thing has come up.
We can have our opinions and that is all good. But from what I have seen the job goes back to the starter.
Stefanski IMO has the pulse of the Browns. He is a good HC and knows the team. He will make the call and I will back him.
One thing I have learned about professional sports is the vast amount of information coaches have. We think we know. They know.
They know their players. They know how the team relates to each other. They live it. It is fun to second guess decisions. That is what fans do.
Guys like Stefanski or Tito or Brian Snitker of the Braves. They can be wrong that is sports but their decisions are based upon the very best of information available.
Fate,
I understand your reasoning. Those are things to consider too.
But from what I have seen the job goes back to the starter.
He has never been our starter
No doubt. And above all of the conjecture is that fact that we will have six full weeks to judge Deshaun's "rust" ahead of week 12. He'll actually be back with the club two weeks from today. He's obviously a superior QB. I'm sure that will pass the eye test on the practice field.
Also of note... Brissett was signed a day after Watson to fill a specific need. Being the professional that he is (and realizing the upside of putting out good tape for a future contract), I suspect that he'll be a cheerleader for Watson's progress and let everyone know that this is Deshaun's team.
It would take an incredible performance and a great W/L record to turn those tables easily.
Thanks for sharing. I encourage others to read the accompanying article. Football talk at it's finest.
For a few that think there's a possibility, lets not use our team as an example since that brings emotion into it and can cloud things.
You are in the same scenario (backup is starting, starter is out for extended games), and the back up plays solid
Do you keep starting (when the starter comes back):
Case Keenum over Josh Allen?
Cooper Rush over Dak Prescott?
Jordan Love over Aaron Rogers?
Chad Heene over Patrick Mahomes?
Chase Daniel over Justin Herbert?
Brandon Allen over Joe Burrow?
Mike White over Joe Flacco? (ok, we all this one is true)
If your response is: well obviously I am going to go with those franchise QBs no matter how the backup plays....then, there's your answer to the JB vs DW question.
Yep. To quote Dean Wormer, the chance that Brissett Wally Pipp's Watson is "zero point zero."
Don't you go besmirching Bluto's GPA, I won't stand for it.
He is the starter. He was named the starter in camp. He got the first team reps.
Come on I know you know better.
When you make a trade like that which was made. And pay the the guy $230m guaranteed. He is the starter.
ooooh Milk you are awesome! Thank you for posting this article. I love it. I didn't get a chance to read it earlier, as i was playing GI Joe at work. This empty back set was brought up last year and I added an article and talked about the why of the empty backs. This article taught me even more about of the basics I read before.
So I will add a few extra comments.
Like they said, it is a great indicator for pre-snaps.
- The basic concept of the empty look is quick short to medium passes, the obvious reason for this is because if a blocker misses his assignment there isn't a RB/FB to provide that second level of pass protection.
- In years past, the blitz rate by a defense in empty is a lot less than a normal formation (example: a couple years ago the blitz rate was 22% in empty compared to 30% in non-empty). Which can be understandable as the QB has an idea if the D is in man or zone and also they can see the possible mismatches before the snap. Like i said before, the basic concept is quick short to medium passes so the ball "should" be out before the rush comes. So if you have a QB that is bad a post-snap reads this formation is beneficial to assist the QB to make the correct passes (or at least a higher chance) as long as they can read the pre-snap and the mismatches.
- The empty set was one of the bread and butter formations for Drew Brees. Also, Lamar Jackson has been deadly in this formation. The reason being his speed. So the defense is spread out, this gives the opportunity of the offense to have their routes run a little deeper. This is because Lamar is a threat to run. They substitute the short quick passes and replace that area of the field with the legs of Lamar. Having the routes deeper will open up the lane/running room if he doesn't have an open receiver.
No sense in argument with a 2-1 record.
Because the future in untold.
When Watson returns. He will play. IMO.
Deshaun Watson's Plan to Stay Sharp During Suspension, the Concept of Rust
Albert Breer of theMMQB laid out how Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson plans to stay sharp as he serves his suspension for the first 11 games of the 2022 season.
PETE SMITHSEP 11, 2022 10:41 AM EDT
Cleveland Browns quarterback will be eligible to return to the team's facility as of October 10th as he serves his 11-game suspension. TheMMQB's Albert Breer laid out the plan for Watson to stay prepared for his eventual return.
Deshaun Watson will start working this week toward Week 13. My understanding is that ahead of Watson’s suspension, Browns coach Kevin Stefanski, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt and quarterbacks coach Drew Petzing worked with Watson’s throwing coach, Quincy Avery, to come up with an individualized plan, and throwing scripts, to keep Watson sharp while he’s away from the team.
That plan will be enacted this week by Avery and Watson who, for the time being, and until Watson’s allowed in the building, won’t be allowed to have contact with Browns coaches or anyone else with the team. As I’ve heard it, Watson and Avery will conduct sessions to include field drills, film and board work four days per week, and that’ll go for the next five weeks, with Watson allowed to return to the Browns’ practice facility Oct. 10, and begin practicing five weeks after that Nov. 14, ahead of his Dec. 4 return to the game field.
At least on paper, that looks like plenty of time for Watson to get reacclimated, though it’s fair to ask how rusty he’ll look after about 23 months without playing in a real NFL game.
The concept of rust is an interesting conversation regarding a football player, especially for a position that doesn't inherently involve contact. Maybe Watson will have some nerves in returning that will not be resolved until he takes a real shot, but that position doesn't need traditional hitting the way a running back or defensive end would to get acclimated to the game.
A quarterback can be quite sharp, because so much of the work he will be doing with his personal quarterback coach Quincy Avery will keep his throwing mechanics in peak form. The ball should come out of his hand cleanly and on the mark in terms of his accuracy and velocity.
Ideally, he'd be able to work at least 7-on-7 to keep his reads sharp, but that's not realistic. Nevertheless, the real issue for Watson coming back isn't likely to be how he's throwing the ball. It's more in terms of chemistry.
How much practice time do the Browns really want to invest in getting Watson acclimated when he's in the building as they attempt to win games with Jacoby Brissett? It's not likely to be much if any.
How much additional time are receivers and tight ends going to put in beyond their normal week to get Watson ready? The Browns may be counting on this because like it or not, most of the wide receivers on this team are auditioning for 2023, so there is a major incentive for putting in extra work with Watson as a way to secure a roster spot on the team next year.
The biggest X-factor with Watson is his mental fitness. It's not going to be easy to walk into what could be the most hostile environment he will ever play, in the stadium and against the team that drafted him when the Browns travel to play the Houston Texans. He's never been hated his entire career. That could be jarring.
How much has this entire process weighed on Watson? It's anyone's guess how that part will impact Watson and his play.
It's unlikely the Browns will be firing on all cylinders when Watson takes the field, because there will be a feeling out process that will be termed 'rust' when it comes to Watson, but it has more to do with getting accustomed to teammates in live games as opposed to Watson simply trying to learn to ride a bike again. He's been practicing football for months and isn't going to stop during his suspension.
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/deshaun-watsons-suspension-plan#:~:text=Albert%20Breer%20of%20theMMQB%20laid,games%20of%20the%202022%20season.&text=Cleveland%20Browns%20quarterback%20will%20be,serves%20his%2011%2Dgame%20suspension.
Comparing tossing around a football confused with actual game play is something I think everyone knows isn't the same thing.
I'm a bit concerned about how he will play, but much more concerned that he will not be reinstated. Happily, this past week there wasn't as much talking head tape ponding him again.
This, from your link, is what I'm trying to ready myself for.
It's unlikely the Browns will be firing on all cylinders when Watson takes the field, because there will be a feeling out process that will be termed 'rust' when it comes to Watson, but it has more to do with getting accustomed to teammates in live games as opposed to Watson simply trying to learn to ride a bike again.
The "rust" issue (from my pov) will have less to do with DW not having his skill set. The "rust" will be on-field chemistry. Receivers will have spent 11 games building a simpatico with Jacoby that only comes from playing in real games. They will know how, when and where he delivers that ball. Their 'internal clocks' will tell them when to expect a JB delivery on a precise timing route. They will know the angle, speed and velocity of a JB pass in almost every setting. Because: training camp, and 2/3 of an NFL regular season together.
It is going to be a challenge for these guys to adjust to a completely different set of "pitch & catch" parameters. All of DW's passes are going to arrive differently than what they've experienced for more than half a season and most of training camp. Having said that, I feel the need to explain that I see DW as an upgrade over JB (and 75% of NFL starters), and I don't doubt his ability to play the game. He will make this team better, no doubt. I just don't expect an instant 'nitrous-dump' during Deshawn's first 2 games. In fact, I'm preparing myself for CLE to go 1-1 or even 0-2 in his first 2 starts.
And it won't be because DW now sucks after almost 2 years off the field. And it won't be because CLE's WR room all of a sudden forgot how to play on Sunday.
It's because this game is measured in millimeters and microseconds. And it's going to take time for this O to work those new wrinkles out. In the heat of the last 1/3 of the season, it couldn't come at a worse time. It's that point in the season when playoff teams establish themselves. Every game counts- and each one, more every week.
I can't help seeing DW's re-introduction as anything but dicey (for at least a couple games), especially if this current team can post a ~.666 record by the time he comes in. It will be a Jacoby team learning how to be a Deshawn team... on Sundays. Practice ain't games- and only games prepare players for their upcoming games.
Maybe it's just my lingering 'Battered Dawg Syndrome' hanging around my neck, but I'm telling you: the better Jacoby does right now, the dicier this transition will be. I predict that DW won't simply be 'plug&play'... and that the speed bumps we'll inevitably see will be more consequential than if we'd seen them in Games 1-3 with DW on the field. This 11-game suspension is potentially more consequential/damaging than I think many Dawgs are considering.
Dawg- I'm just getting ready for what's possible. If the division is tight (...and let's face it- The League has engineered it to be the norm), any blip on any team could upset the standings in one or two weeks. We see it all the time.
I'm insanely optimistic about a #4-led team, but how they gonna re-make themselves Nov-Dec of 2022 enough to run the table?
I see a next year lock, with a near-miss this year.
Can't help myself.
Make me reconsider. I challenge you. I need this.
p.s. feel free to do it in a PM, if you think it would derail the thread. This has been a good few pages to read/enjoy.
No doubt there will be timing issues.
As was stated, much will depend on how much time Watson gets with the receivers while he can practice with them before he is eligible to play in games. I suspect the players will spend the extra time after practice to get a feel for the timing.
That said, it will take time. My guess is Watson will come out and look a lot like Jacoby. Ball control passes, the team running the ball. It will be important for the team to call the O much the same as they now do with Jacoby. I don't want to say a dumbed down O because that isn't giving Jacoby any credit. He is far from needing a dumbed down O. It's just a O crafted to his skills. I think we will continue to operate in that manner....and why not? It is a winning formula. Any problems we have had haven't been on the offensive side of the ball.
Even next year, with the backs we have and the hogs we have up front, we may still be a ground game centered attack and less the "Air Coryell" that might have been imagined when we made this move.
Your point is well taken.
DW has been with the team since early spring. He has had plenty of reps in the bank.
He will get 3 weeks of practice before his first game. However, just like Jacoby in his first game. Jitters. Getting your mental timing of the speed rush and processing speed. That is something that is individual.
Everything amps up a notch. That fine tuning with the receivers in a live game. That has to happen on it's own.
I don't think it will take to long and as each week passes he will get more comfortable.
I think it is up to KS to read his team. Kevin is the guy who lives it all daily. This where we as fans have to give in to the locker room and the people in it.
My experience in coaching taught me trust the pros. These coaches are so locked in to detail. They have educated eyes and intuition. Many are quick to criticise coaches when they don't know a fraction of what these guys know.
I have to trust Kevin and his staff. I believe in them especially Kevin and AVP on offense.
The last thing is Deshaun Watson. IMO he is a really good quarterback. He has no limitations on a football field. None. He possesses every attribute you look for in a quarterback. He has all the athletic skill required. But he also has the will to win.
He is one of few who can and will take over a game. He can do it with arm, legs, and will. He plays unafraid.
So, put your mind at ease and let this fall into a natural transition.
Make me reconsider. I challenge you. I need this.
You bring up a valid point of concern when questioning that there is bound to be rust in regards to the on-field chemistry between Watson and his receivers. I won't make you try to reconsider, but perhaps you have not considered this. Watson is going to be allowed to start practicing w/the team on Nov. 14. His first game back is December 4th. That is 3 full weeks of practice. Of course, he won't receive the majority of reps because we still have to play games in that three week stretch w/Jacoby as our QB. During TC, I said it was important for Watson to develop some chemistry w/his receivers during that camp. There were some guys battling injuries for awhile, but they did all see time together.
I agree w/you that there is bound to be some rust w/his receivers when he returns. However, it is not like he just walks in and starts playing games w/out any practice reps. I'm sure that Stefanski will have a plan to incorporate both QBs getting time w/the receivers. Our coach is a very intelligent man and we are fortunate to have him. I don't think this is a year where we challenge for the Super Bowl. I do maintain my prediction of us winning 8-10 games this year which is quite a bit better than all the doom and gloom forecasts we have seen. Next year should be our year, but I'm going to enjoy this year as it unfolds because we have an addition by subtraction and this team is going to play sound, smart, tough football on the offensive side of the ball. I believe this team has adopted the "us against the world" mentality and it's not manufactured. They really believe it and are going to fun to watch.
Every season in football is unique.
A team can start off on fire and win 10 straight then fall apart. Other years a team struggles early and then takes off.
A huge factor is the health of the team and the quality of depth.
I have no predictions. Just play the schedule see what happens. I took a shot for grins and said 9 to 11. But it means nothing.
Already this season predicted power house teams are struggling. So, I don't have a clue.
We have enough talent on the team and with Jacoby playing well. I feel like we can be in every game we play.
After that I hope we can make those few plays that determine the outcome.
Nothing substitutes actual game speed and game time reactions. Nothing. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. If a QB is returning to action with a team he has played with for some time in actual games it helps. But on a new team with an entire new roster having never played actual games in real time, it takes games to get some chemistry going. Practice doesn't do that. Even preseason doesn't do that. How many times have you watched teams with a new QB come out looking flat at the beginning of the NFL regular season? And we're talking about a QB who will not have played in an actual NFL game in almost two seasons.
As promised, here are the up to date numbers for Jacoby vs Baker after all the BS that occurred earlier in this thread.
QBR: JB at 61.4 [9th overall. BM at 15.4 [32nd overall.]
Rating: JB 87.1. BM 75.
TD: JB and BM both w/4.
Int: JB w/2. BM w/3.
Sacks: JB @ 5. BM @ 11.
Comp. %: JB at 64.6. BM at 54.7.
I will post their PFF grades once they are updated.
I thought Brissett had some poor moments yesterday for the first time since week 1 … him not hitting on some screens killed us (and they were open) but he just hesitated). And his play on the goal line and the last two minutes wasn’t good.
But he’s played admirably for us and isn’t why we lost of course
I thought Brissett had some poor moments yesterday for the first time since week 1 … him not hitting on some screens killed us (and they were open) but he just hesitated). And his play on the goal line and the last two minutes wasn’t good.
But he’s played admirably for us and isn’t why we lost of course
No, he wasn't why we lost. But he did play more as expected, which in its own way is concerning after he's been killing it. Yesterday he played like an average to better backup QB.
jc
ASKING EVERYONE: What the hell does Baker have to do with us losing or winning at this point? Some of you guys need to move on. Baker lost yesterday and has looked awful in Carolina. What does that have to do with us? We're still losers that can't finish or play a whole game consistently and that has zero to do with Baker.
As promised.......After 4 weeks, Jacoby has a PFF grade of 77.6, which is good for 6th in the league. Baker's PFF grade is at 46.4, which ranks 33rd out of 33 graded QBs.
It doesn't. If anyone wants to check and see how he's doing (like me) that's fine. Posting it is another matter. I won't. He's not here anymore and I wished him well unless he's playing us.
ASKING EVERYONE: What the hell does Baker have to do with us losing or winning at this point?
Hell, our own QBs have enough problems producing wins without pretending that Baker has anything to do with the Browns...lol.
jc
ASKING EVERYONE: What the hell does Baker have to do with us losing or winning at this point? Some of you guys need to move on. Baker lost yesterday and has looked awful in Carolina. What does that have to do with us? We're still losers that can't finish or play a whole game consistently and that has zero to do with Baker.
ANSWER: Nothing. The only reason is to induce posts just like the one you just made... and this I'm posting. Then you can be stuffed into some imaginary category and blamed for the conversation itself. If they're crafty enough, they'll make you the perp and paint themselves as some "victim".
One thing that speaks volumes...
two of these "guys"
QUIT this forum when Baker was doing well in 2020...
flat out QUIT. That should actually tell you everything you need to know.
As promised.......After 4 weeks, Jacoby has a PFF grade of 77.6, which is good for 6th in the league. Baker's PFF grade is at 46.4, which ranks 33rd out of 33 graded QBs.
Do you have a Baker poster that you sit around and hate? You get all giddy about Baker doing bad like it's your job Vers. Do you touch yourself making this type of post? Or are you just trying to prove you are somehow smarter than 75% of the board who actually liked Baker over the years he was here? Either way, seek help.
I have already explained this.........after all the insults and outright lies that occurred in this thread --and others---it's time to cash in on the receipts. Deal w/it...or don't. I don't care.
I have already explained this.........after all the insults and outright lies that occurred in this thread --and others---it's time to cash in on the receipts. Deal w/it...or don't. I don't care.
![[Linked Image from i.chzbgr.com]](https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8433432576/hC48996D2/always-value-your-skills.gif)
It's because someone has an ego problem. A "I have to be right" problem.
I have already explained this.........after all the insults and outright lies that occurred in this thread --and others---it's time to cash in on the receipts. Deal w/it...or don't. I don't care.
I thought you were a bigger man than this. Gotta stroke your ego though, right?
So, comparing Baker to Jacoby in the Pure Football forum after all that was said this off-season is out of bounds because Baker no longer has anything to do w/winning and losing, but insulting other posters who don't agree w/you does have a lot to do w/the Browns winning and losing?
Do you have a Baker poster that you sit around and hate? You get all giddy about Baker doing bad like it's your job Vers. Do you touch yourself making this type of post? Or are you just trying to prove you are somehow smarter than 75% of the board who actually liked Baker over the years he was here? Either way, seek help.
Touch myself? And yet another mental health reference.
Yeah, that has a lot to do w/the Browns winning and losing.
However, I won't return your insults.