I think Andrew Berry has done an excellent job in FA this year. As noted in the locked thread, PFF has us tied for 2nd w/a few other teams in regards to which teams have done the best in FA.
I don't think we will--or should--make any other splash signings. There are a few other guys that might be good fits if they don't cost too much. I'm just guessing, but I think these guys are possibilities. I found the write-ups from this site: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...board-best-available-players-after-day-3
25. DE Calais Campbell
The Baltimore Ravens released defensive end Calais Campbell on Monday, and if the 36-year-old decides to continue playing, he shouldn't have to wait long to find work.
While Campbell isn't the sort of Pro Bowl pass-rusher he was early in his career, he's still a strong contributor against the run and the pass. This past season, he tallied 36 tackles, four tackles for loss and 5.5 sacks.
24. Edge Justin Houston
Like Campbell, pass-rusher Justin Houston is an older player who just keeps finding ways to make an impact.
The 34-year-old logged 9.5 sacks, 25 quarterback pressures and 21 tackles with the Ravens in 2022. Houston should be a top target for a playoff-caliber team seeking a situational but productive pass-rusher on a short-term deal.
21. DT Shelby Harris
The Seattle Seahawks released defensive tackle Shelby Harris on Tuesday. Per NFL Network's Mike Garafolo, the Seahawks tried to deal Harris but could not find a trade partner.
Now that Harris is available to sign, he should draft much more interest. The 31-year-old is a consistent defensive tackle who has logged at least 32 tackles and two sacks in each of the past four seasons. He had 49 tackles and six sacks with the Denver Broncos two years ago.
19. WR Adam Thielen
The Minnesota Vikings released wideout Adam Thielen last week, and he jumped right into our top 50.
Thielen is 32 years old, had just 716 receiving yards last year and appears to have lost a step in the speed department. However, he's still a savvy route-runner who knows how to create separation.
While Thielen is no longer a Pro Bowl-caliber receiver, he can be a solid No. 2 or No. 3 option for a receiver-needy offense. According to ESPN's David Newton, the Carolina Panthers hosted him on a Wednesday visit.
18. Edge Melvin Ingram
Melvin Ingram turns 34 in April, but he remains a solid rotational pass-rusher. This past season, he recorded six sacks, 18 quarterback pressures and 22 tackles while playing just 45 percent of the defensive snaps.
At his age, Ingram isn't a terrific fit for a rebuilding team. However, he'd be a solid addition for a potential playoff contender seeking a one- or two-year contributor on the edge.
11. WR DJ Chark
Detroit Lions wideout DJ Chark is one of the more underrated players headed into free agency. He hasn't had a 1,000-yard season since 2019, and he didn't produce eye-popping numbers in Detroit this past year (502 yards, 3 TDs).
However, it's worth noting that Chark suffered a season-ending ankle injury in 2021 and spent time on injured reserve with an ankle injury this past season, which limited his production. When healthy, Chark is a speedy and dynamic perimeter threat who will stretch the field and help dictate coverages. He should be viewed as a high-end No. 2 receiver.
9. DT Poona Ford
Seattle Seahawks defensive tackle Poona Ford might be the most underrated defender headed into free agency. Though he doesn't possess ideal length, the 5'11", 310-pound Texas product is a space-eater who can clog running lanes and disrupt the backfield.
Signed as an undrafted free agent out of Texas in 2018, Ford quickly emerged as a versatile and productive pro. He has played several roles in Seattle's defensive front, and he's logged at least 30 tackles in each of the past four seasons.
Over the past two seasons, Ford has compiled 88 tackles, 12 tackles for loss, three passes defended, five sacks and 22 quarterback pressures.
With the defensive-tackle dominoes falling quickly, Ford should not remain available for much longer.
There are a couple of other guys I like, but they would cost too much.
Chark is probably going to want too much money despite his injury history. Campbell may want too much? Not sure about that one. I have no idea how much Ford would want.
I think there is a possibility that we bring in one more guy. Maybe two. Then again, I think the chances of not signing another player is probably over 50%.
Wonder if Zach Pascal might be a name to watch at WR. Not the burner that many people want, but we're probably better off looking for that guy in the draft now. Pascal could do the dirty work from the slot and play special teams, while adding leadership to the wr room.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I think Berry did an excellent job in FA. Might even give it an A. B+ for sure.
I think we are done with any big FA signing for the time being. We may add another after the June 1 cuts happen and a little more money becomes available. One also has to consider that many vets aren't all that interested in signing much before camp, that way they can skip all the mandatory mini camp stuff.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
While it is a big raise coming off his cheap rookie deal, spotrac had his market value projected at 5yr/~66.6M for an average annual value of 13.3M. His getting only around 2/3 of that AAV and for only 1 year surprised me.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Great move for the Lions. I thought he was the best FS on the market. He can also play corner/slot. The contract is surprising. He was projected to get a big contract.
While it is a big raise coming off his cheap rookie deal, spotrac had his market value projected at 5yr/~66.6M for an average annual value of 13.3M. His getting only around 2/3 of that AAV and for only 1 year surprised me.
I understand that, But most teams see him as a slot CB, not a full time Safety.
I think Andrew Berry has done an excellent job in FA this year. As noted in the locked thread, PFF has us tied for 2nd w/a few other teams in regards to which teams have done the best in FA.
Excellent job by Berry...completely ignoring the Browns offensive line...
Just an example of Andy Berry being true to his own knowledge of football...OLine is nothing but Oline and OG and OT are nothing more than OGs and OTs...right Andy..?
What could go wrong if a blitzing LB takes out the Browns starting QB...right Andy..?
Never forget what "Andy" said about the importance of offensive lineman when he completely screwed up on his first round pick in the 2020 draft..."tackles are tackles"...just one problem, not all tackles are tackles...
Good ole Browns GM Andy Berry drafted Jedrick Wills Jr. @ #10, passing over Tristen Wirfs...Wirfs accomplishments below...
Tristen Wirfs...2020 all rookie team ....................2020 Super Bowl Champion ....................2021 All Pro ....................2022 All Pro
Good Ole Andy lets his #1 backup G/C gets picked up as the Cards because OLine guys are simply OLine guys.
Some things can't be fixed...allowing the Browns best backup Guard and Center might end up costing the Browns a shot at the playoffs or a chance at a Super Bowl because the Browns GM didn't realize how important the "offensive line is" to the success or failure to the Browns chances of making the 2023 playoffs or Super Bowl.
Some things just can't be fixed...such as GMs who have no idea what it takes to produce a playoff caliber offensive unit.
There is no more important unit on a football team than "the offensive line"..!!!
I think Andrew Berry has done an excellent job in FA this year. As noted in the locked thread, PFF has us tied for 2nd w/a few other teams in regards to which teams have done the best in FA.
Excellent job by Berry...completely ignoring the Browns offensive line...
Just an example of Andy Berry being true to his own knowledge of football...OLine is nothing but Oline and OG and OT are nothing more than OGs and OTs...right Andy..?
What could go wrong if a blitzing LB takes out the Browns starting QB...right Andy..?
Never forget what "Andy" said about the importance of offensive lineman when he completely screwed up on his first round pick in the 2020 draft..."tackles are tackles"...just one problem, not all tackles are tackles...
Good ole Browns GM Andy Berry drafted Jedrick Wills Jr. @ #10, passing over Tristen Wirfs...Wirfs accomplishments below...
Tristen Wirfs...2020 all rookie team ....................2020 Super Bowl Champion ....................2021 All Pro ....................2022 All Pro
Good Ole Andy lets his #1 backup G/C gets picked up as the Cards because OLine guys are simply OLine guys.
Some things can't be fixed...allowing the Browns best backup Guard and Center might end up costing the Browns a shot at the playoffs or a chance at a Super Bowl because the Browns GM didn't realize how important the "offensive line is" to the success or failure to the Browns chances of making the 2023 playoffs or Super Bowl.
Some things just can't be fixed...such as GMs who have no idea what it takes to produce a playoff caliber offensive unit.
There is no more important unit on a football team than "the offensive line"..!!!
We're spending the 6th highest amount on OL in the league. We were higher until teams gave out big contracts since this year's free agency began. Most fans (and amateur/OBR prognosticators) I've seen are complaining about us spending too much on the OL. I agree the OL is important, but there is a point when the investment can be too much.
Our "#1 backup G/C" was only playing after our starting C (Harris) and rookie G/C (Deaton) got injured in training camp. Dunn also went on IR during the season as did Pocic. So is he really our #1 backup or was he our #3/4 backup?
Tampa Bay has run primarily a man/power scheme. We have run primarily a (outside) zone scheme. The schemes require different things of their lineman. The success would quite possibly have been different if Wills' and Wirfs' situations had been reversed. One had Tom Brady quickly getting rid of the ball. The other had Baker Mayfield.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I think Andrew Berry has done an excellent job in FA this year. As noted in the locked thread, PFF has us tied for 2nd w/a few other teams in regards to which teams have done the best in FA.
Excellent job by Berry...completely ignoring the Browns offensive line...
Just an example of Andy Berry being true to his own knowledge of football...OLine is nothing but Oline and OG and OT are nothing more than OGs and OTs...right Andy..?
What could go wrong if a blitzing LB takes out the Browns starting QB...right Andy..?
Never forget what "Andy" said about the importance of offensive lineman when he completely screwed up on his first round pick in the 2020 draft..."tackles are tackles"...just one problem, not all tackles are tackles...
Good ole Browns GM Andy Berry drafted Jedrick Wills Jr. @ #10, passing over Tristen Wirfs...Wirfs accomplishments below...
Tristen Wirfs...2020 all rookie team ....................2020 Super Bowl Champion ....................2021 All Pro ....................2022 All Pro
Good Ole Andy lets his #1 backup G/C gets picked up as the Cards because OLine guys are simply OLine guys.
Some things can't be fixed...allowing the Browns best backup Guard and Center might end up costing the Browns a shot at the playoffs or a chance at a Super Bowl because the Browns GM didn't realize how important the "offensive line is" to the success or failure to the Browns chances of making the 2023 playoffs or Super Bowl.
Some things just can't be fixed...such as GMs who have no idea what it takes to produce a playoff caliber offensive unit.
There is no more important unit on a football team than "the offensive line"..!!!
1. The guy we let go to the Cards was our fourth string center. He also sucked by every metric and the eye test. 2. Wirfs is a great RIGHT TACKLE. We have no idea how he would have made the transition. Scouting reports were all over the place from RT to guard to LT. 3. “Andy” has brought in Conklin, Teller, Pocic as well as drafting Harris and Wills as well as giving Bitonio a big fat extension. He has made the oline a priority. We have 3 pro bowler/ all pros on the line with decent depth. 4. Oline is the most important unit in football. Ours is one of the best.
I think Andrew Berry has done an excellent job in FA this year. As noted in the locked thread, PFF has us tied for 2nd w/a few other teams in regards to which teams have done the best in FA.
Excellent job by Berry...completely ignoring the Browns offensive line...
Just an example of Andy Berry being true to his own knowledge of football...OLine is nothing but Oline and OG and OT are nothing more than OGs and OTs...right Andy..?
What could go wrong if a blitzing LB takes out the Browns starting QB...right Andy..?
Never forget what "Andy" said about the importance of offensive lineman when he completely screwed up on his first round pick in the 2020 draft..."tackles are tackles"...just one problem, not all tackles are tackles...
Good ole Browns GM Andy Berry drafted Jedrick Wills Jr. @ #10, passing over Tristen Wirfs...Wirfs accomplishments below...
Tristen Wirfs...2020 all rookie team ....................2020 Super Bowl Champion ....................2021 All Pro ....................2022 All Pro
Good Ole Andy lets his #1 backup G/C gets picked up as the Cards because OLine guys are simply OLine guys.
Some things can't be fixed...allowing the Browns best backup Guard and Center might end up costing the Browns a shot at the playoffs or a chance at a Super Bowl because the Browns GM didn't realize how important the "offensive line is" to the success or failure to the Browns chances of making the 2023 playoffs or Super Bowl.
Some things just can't be fixed...such as GMs who have no idea what it takes to produce a playoff caliber offensive unit.
There is no more important unit on a football team than "the offensive line"..!!!
1. The guy we let go to the Cards was our fourth string center. He also sucked by every metric and the eye test. 2. Wirfs is a great RIGHT TACKLE. We have no idea how he would have made the transition. Scouting reports were all over the place from RT to guard to LT. 3. “Andy” has brought in Conklin, Teller, Pocic as well as drafting Harris and Wills as well as giving Bitonio a big fat extension. He has made the oline a priority. We have 3 pro bowler/ all pros on the line with decent depth. 4. Oline is the most important unit in football. Ours is one of the best.
Not a big deal, but Dorsey traded with Buffalo for Teller. Wasn't a huge Dorsey fan in hindsight, but give credit where credit is due.
Berry's talent evaluation has been a mixed bag, but he has put more emphasis on the OL than any GM we have had. He's done a great job of helping to build the OL and also keeping that talent in Cleveland. In addition to he moves you mentioned, he has also recently extended Conklin and Pocic. He brings in projects each year. I believe Dunn is one guy who will be a valuable reserve.
Berry's talent evaluation has been a mixed bag, but he has put more emphasis on the OL than any GM we have had. He's done a great job of helping to build the OL and also keeping that talent in Cleveland. In addition to he moves you mentioned, he has also recently extended Conklin and Pocic. He brings in projects each year. I believe Dunn is one guy who will be a valuable reserve.
FYI: Dunn is a free agent at the moment. I would be surprised if they did not try and re-sign him though - they did not tender him...so he's a URFA. I think he's a valuable backup and can spot-start as long as he's healthy.
However praising of Berry folks want to be, I think we can see that once again, whether it would be pick any year since 99 in March of 23 once again the offensive playmakers have to wait until all of the defensive players get signed, settled, situated, packed in, reinforced, and addressed a 2nd time until they throw a bone at the offensive playmakers. same old recipe, 26th, or 200th time's the charm. Hey, Good Luck.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
However praising of Berry folks want to be, I think we can see that once again, whether it would be pick any year since 99 in March of 23 once again the offensive playmakers have to wait until all of the defensive players get signed, settled, situated, packed in, reinforced, and addressed a 2nd time until they throw a bone at the offensive playmakers. same old recipe, 26th, or 200th time's the charm. Hey, Good Luck.
We're already spending more money on offense than any other team in the league. Link
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
mac do you wish to talk OL or just fart out of your mouth
You keep with the Wrfth and putting up stats as if that actually means something. Just a heads up but Wrrf played RT not LT and then you compare him to our Wills. You do know there is a difference between the two positions!!! We are calculating the growth of each season by Wills - all Wills needs right now is to be a GYM RAT - Asta la Vista Baby. Andrew has done an excellent job with the OL
#1 is keeping our OL Coach intact But he has given this team an amazing shot at improving their O, D and special teams so that only the retardation of our QB into the system could keep us at bay. WE ARE SET UP TO WIIN!!!
Thank You Berry! excellent job. jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Jeremy Fowler originally tweeted it out as Hardman signing with the Browns before correcting and changing to the Jets. Browns must've been after Hardman as it came down to the wire.
Jeremy Fowler originally tweeted it out as Hardman signing with the Browns before correcting and changing to the Jets. Browns must've been after Hardman as it came down to the wire.
Yeah, it feels like it was a ready-to-go tweet.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Jeremy Fowler originally tweeted it out as Hardman signing with the Browns before correcting and changing to the Jets. Browns must've been after Hardman as it came down to the wire.
Yeah, it feels like it was a ready-to-go tweet.
And then Jordan Schultz gets exposed for copying Fowler's mistake and tweeting it out like he himself had an inside source before correcting it and crediting Fowler as being first to report.
Jeremy Fowler originally tweeted it out as Hardman signing with the Browns before correcting and changing to the Jets. Browns must've been after Hardman as it came down to the wire.
He's just foreshadowing the Elijah Moore trade that's following this move. ... hopefully.
Seems a kind of strange move with Garrett Wilson, Lazard, Corey Davis, and Elijah already there.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The Cleveland Browns still need a left tackle. New GM Andrew Berry was peppered with questions about filling the glaring hole on the offensive line during his Friday morning press conference.
One of the key statements from Berry defused some of the argument against players like Jedrick Wills and Tristan Wirfs, players who toiled on the right side in college. Berry doesn’t worry about the differentiation between left and right tackle.
“I think the distinction between left tackle and right tackle is really outdated,” Berry said. “Tackles are tackles.”
Did Berry tip his hand even further? The tone in which he said the following sure made it seem like the No. 10 pick will be a tackle,
“The offensive line is always going to be a priority,” Berry stated emphatically. “Not just this year, but every year.”
EO...do you believe "Andy" knows that there is a difference between left tackles and right tackles..?...Andy says "tackles are tackles"...
OT's are judged by their skill set which determines their ability to play either RT, LT or both. I have no idea why you're trying to muddy the water here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
pit...it was Andrew Berry who justified his selection of a RT to fill the Browns need to fill our LT needs by letting everyone know that "tackles are tackles" and those who believe otherwise are using outdated principles for judging OT talent...READ BELOW, Berry's thoughts...
Andrew Berry: 'tackles are tackles', not worried about left vs. right side link
One of the key statements from Berry defused some of the argument against players like Jedrick Wills and Tristan Wirfs, players who toiled on the right side in college. Berry doesn’t worry about the differentiation between left and right tackle.
“I think the distinction between left tackle and right tackle is really outdated,” Berry said. “Tackles are tackles.”
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Berry's knowledge and judgement of "Offensive Linemen" based on his draft choices should be questioned.
Berry made sure that everyone knew that his choice for drafting a RT to fill the Browns LT position had nothing to do with either Wirfs or Wills playing Right Tackle...it came down the Browns GM's ability to judge OT talent.
I will let the performance of each player's performance on the field to judge whether Berry made the correct choice to fill the Browns OLine needs.
Josh Dobbs graduated with a degree in aerospace engineering from Tennessee
"Dobbs majored in aerospace engineering during his time at the University of Tennessee.[4] The university presented him with the 2017 Torchbearer Award, the highest honor for an undergraduate student, which recognizes accomplishments in the community and academics. Dobbs was heralded as possessing a perfect 4.0 grade point average and being named to the Southeastern Conference Academic Honor Roll."
pit...it was Andrew Berry who justified his selection of a RT to fill the Browns need to fill our LT needs by letting everyone know that "tackles are tackles" and those who believe otherwise are using outdated principles for judging OT talent...READ BELOW, Berry's thoughts...
Andrew Berry: 'tackles are tackles', not worried about left vs. right side link
One of the key statements from Berry defused some of the argument against players like Jedrick Wills and Tristan Wirfs, players who toiled on the right side in college. Berry doesn’t worry about the differentiation between left and right tackle.
“I think the distinction between left tackle and right tackle is really outdated,” Berry said. “Tackles are tackles.”
And he's right.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
PFF has rated our team offensive line as one of the best WITH current tackles- good enough for me. I think AB has hit a home run with his Free Agency gets. PFF had us rated high BEFORE getting WR Moore and LB Walker/ when healthy is a good player......good job AB.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
PFF has rated our team offensive line as one of the best WITH current tackles- good enough for me. I think AB has hit a home run with his Free Agency gets. PFF had us rated high BEFORE getting WR Moore and LB Walker/ when healthy is a good player......good job AB.
Anthony Walker had a 82.7 overall grade before going down with a season-ending injury.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Glad we did not go after Hardman. I used to like him, but he's inconsistent and I think having Mahomes, Kelce, and T. Hill provided great advantages for guys like him. Dude is fast, but not a route runner.
Compare the Jets offense to the Browns. Try and be objective. Honestly tell me how Jets are better with Rodgers?
The only person I have heard say a thing about the Browns after getting Moore was Dan Orlovsky. He stated yesterday that if DW is anywhere close to his 2020 season. "The Browns are a sleeping giant that we have shunned."
First and foremost, they cover Aaron Rodgers 365 days a year.
Secondly, it's NY.
Finally, the Jets roster is really, really good. They have perhaps the best D in the league. They have weapons at WR and TE. Garrett Wilson is a true stud and he was only a rookie last year. Rookie Breece Hall was killing it at RB last year before getting hurt. He's amazing. There are questions on the OL, but the media doesn't spend as much time on the OL as some of us do.
The Jets had the worst QB play in the entire league last year. They scored 12 pts or less in 7 games. Wilson acted like a spoiled, entitled brat and his teammates loathed him. They are getting Aaron Rodgers and he is one of the greatest qbs to ever play. I think they are legit Super Bowl contenders. I'm telling you, the AFC is freaking loaded and despite our improvements, it's going to be a difficult path to circumvent.
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Mac is just irritated his pimped player, the "Danish Dynamo" Froholdt wasn't retained.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Mac is just irritated his pimped player, the "Danish Dynamo" Froholdt wasn't retained.
peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
Thanks, Board Officer Pit but I'll choose to keep it here as it relates to cap space available for all teams as free agency is still ongoing.
You see, I'm not the one who is always complaining about keeping salary cap discussion limited to the salary cap thread. We both know who that is. I was just wondering how different the reaction would be from your ilk if I was the one who did the same thing. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Mac is just irritated his pimped player, the "Danish Dynamo" Froholdt wasn't retained.
peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
I guess I will ask again...peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
No one cares about your stupid question. You have not acknowledged that they kept Conklin and Pocic. You continue to throw shade on the Browns. That's your right, but don't pout when we ignore your agenda.
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Mac is just irritated his pimped player, the "Danish Dynamo" Froholdt wasn't retained.
peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
I guess I will ask again...peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
Anyone...?
the best backup is the one that never plays a snap all season
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Mac is just irritated his pimped player, the "Danish Dynamo" Froholdt wasn't retained.
peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
I guess I will ask again...peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
Anyone...?
A better question might be why would Froholdt want to be a backup here when he'll likely start for Arizona?
I'd say that Pocic was our best backup center considering Harris was supposed to be the starter.
Considering we've been able to function with "some guy named Blake" thrown on the field, I think Callahan will figure something out at G.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
And he was correct. DE's have become much more quick and agile. In times past NFL teams focused on rushing the QB far more on their blind side which is the left for right handed QB's. Now pressure often comes from both sides and RT's need to be much quicker and more agile than in years past. For an example you can easily see, look at how much the browns mover Myles around. Either an OT is quick and agile enough to play LT or he's not. His skill set alone determines that. I understand you're trying to dig a rabbit hole here but don't expect for me to crawl down into it with you.
Mac is just irritated his pimped player, the "Danish Dynamo" Froholdt wasn't retained.
peen...who was the best backup OG for the Browns last season..?
Who was the Browns best backup center for last season...?
I liked Froholdt too. I liked him when he played at Arkansas. I have always liked Arkansas. I liked the name of the state when I was a kid and I like their helmets and name. Razorbacks....how cool is that?
He signed a 2 year deal with Az....I think it was Az..I don't know that we didn't make an effort to sign the guy. It probably came down to him or keeping Pocic, so with that in mind, I am glad we kept Pocic. Sometimes it is what it is. The realities are you can't keep everybody. We have a lot of money invested in the O-line.
I would have liked to have kept the guy, but he wasn't going to start, and he wasn't good at center. If he had been, we may have kept him. You can only spend so much on a guy who projected out as a back-up.
I would have liked to have kept him and sure Berry and coaches would have, but we have only so many dollars we can spend on the O-line without taking shortcuts somewhere else.
So it boiled to keeping a center who was pretty darn good or keeping a guy to play center who was maybe marginal. I seem to recall you saying you played center in HS. Then you know it isn't a position you can just stick anybody in there to play. It doesn't mean the Dane wasn't a good player. He just wasn't a center. He is a guard.
Just because a guy plays center doesn't mean he can play guard or just because a guy plays guard means he can be a center. Different strength and agility requirements involved.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
This will be perfect for me to take to the movie theater. No more sitting in a reclined seat like a couch potato. I'll be working up a sweat in the aisle!
Side note: I feel like Lamar Jackson is about to get Kaepernick'd.
I don't know that it's collusion as much as teams understanding the circumstances.
Any team making an offer would have to make it so high that Baltimore would not match it, otherwise you're just creating unnecessary media attention. In doing so, you have to make sure you have the financial end ready to deal with the it, in which many would need to clean out some other contracts to accomplish the financials.
Not saying there isn't any "collusion", but just because there aren't teams lining up, doesn't mean there are. The chances of successfully signing him are low without an outrageous offer.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Vers, I'm not trying to argue as I know you are pretty passionate about the rift between the NFLPA and owners in the league. So answer if you want to or don't. With that said, I'm not sure the league needed to send a memo and "shine light" on a strange situation that they don't really approve of. However, it is strange and a lot of everybody has said this makes it hard to work towards a contract.
I heard one talking head make mention of the fact that agents do a lot of their work at the combine every year... a place where you can at least get a pulse, kick ideas around, etc... There was no agent for Lamar there, obviously. Instead, all we have is a vague idea of Jackson's demands; and all interested teams have (legitimately) is a chance to overpay for an enigmatic, sometimes great, sometimes average QB... or do Baltimore's work for them.
Anyway...
Didn't the "built in" collusion start with his own team choosing that tag?
Did the Ravens want to collude to keep Jackson out of football or give him the shaft? Or was it to let the market determine the value of a QB that couldn't finish the last two seasons and thinks he should be the highest paid in the game... "guar-un-teed"?
You're the GM... Lamar seems earnest in wanting to make the move and puts the "offer" ball in your court. What is your final offer?
I almost did not make my previous post because I know you think the idea of collusion is ridiculous. We disagree on that and it's no big deal.
I do think Lamar should have an agent.
I do not think the NFL had to make the memo so public. They are purposely painting an unflattering picture of Lamar.
When I mentioned "built in" collusion, I was not talking about Lamar's case. It's like that for every player. Many NFL players--mostly former--have talked about the Non-exclusive tag as being "built in" collusion. It's not a secret.
I need to see how this breaks down because right now I'm confused. Guaranteeing $30M in 2026 now as part of a 1 year extension for a guy who will be 36 seems odd. It is likely a sort of retroactive signing bonus that will be spread out starting now, but it just sounded weird.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I need to see how this breaks down because right now I'm confused. Guaranteeing $30M in 2026 now as part of a 1 year extension for a guy who will be 36 seems odd. It is likely a sort of retroactive signing bonus that will be spread out starting now, but it just sounded weird.
From a larger article:
Quote
The one-year, $33.445 million extension includes $30 million in guaranteed money, according to a source. ESPN’s Adam Schefter first reported the deal.
Johnson, 32, was already under contract through the 2025 season but this adds one more year to his existing deal. While Johnson will be 33 for the 2023 season, he’s still playing at an extremely high level and was an All-Pro in 2022.
This extension will lower Johnson’s cap hit for the 2023 season. It was scheduled to be over $24 million, the highest on the team after the Darius Slay extension last week. The Eagles will likely pay out a significant portion of Johnson’s $14.155 base salary in 2023 in a bonus to lower his cap hit. According to NFL Network's Mike Garafolo, Johnson's cap hit this season will be lowered by $9.4 million.
Just a comment by Ozzy Newsome on what has helped complicate the Lamar situation....
Good. I hope the Browns made the situation very complicated for the Ravens and next year the Bengals. There not our friends and we should do everything in our power to make things harder on them. That is what good GM's do. There was talk the Ravens actually want to somehow get Lamar to sign the franchise tag for 1 year and revisit the contract again next year to see what the Bengals do with Burrow.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I almost did not make my previous post because I know you think the idea of collusion is ridiculous. We disagree on that and it's no big deal.
I do think Lamar should have an agent.
I do not think the NFL had to make the memo so public. They are purposely painting an unflattering picture of Lamar.
When I mentioned "built in" collusion, I was not talking about Lamar's case. It's like that for every player. Many NFL players--mostly former--have talked about the Non-exclusive tag as being "built in" collusion. It's not a secret.
If there is built in collusion, then the NFLPA helped buil;d that in .... oe at least agreed to it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Once again, the NFL rears its ugly head w/unfair treatment, dirty tactics, inconsistent decisions, and collusionary actions.
I agree. They are forcing him to stay in Baltimore and take what he can get or walk. I hate to see it too, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I want him gone, just not from the NFL altogether.
Just a comment by Ozzy Newsome on what has helped complicate the Lamar situation....
Good. I hope the Browns made the situation very complicated for the Ravens and next year the Bengals. There not our friends and we should do everything in our power to make things harder on them. That is what good GM's do. There was talk the Ravens actually want to somehow get Lamar to sign the franchise tag for 1 year and revisit the contract again next year to see what the Bengals do with Burrow.
Yep, and I hated the trade, but you have to give AB and the FO credit for creating this situation too. We have our guy, and now the guy on every other team thinks, why not me too?
Yep, and I hated the trade, but you have to give AB and the FO credit for creating this situation too. We have our guy, and now the guy on every other team thinks, why not me too?
I have to believe we have our guy, and I have said I think fully guaranteed contracts were inevitable, especially for certain positions. We do need to consider that at some point in the future we will be "bitten" by this for a different player. It may not be this front office that has to deal with it, but I am not front office fan.
The genie is not going back in the bottle forever.
Boy, it sure would be nice to find a way to fit him in. He's by far our best back out of the backfield, IMO. If Berry somehow signs Hunt back, say for two years on the cheap, then this would be the best offseason the browns have ever had. If there was a better one, I'm either forgetting it or was unaware, but AB is fire as a GM. And shame on anyone who says differently.
That’d be cool if KH came back. I noticed that losing D’Ernest Johnson to FA didn’t get a lot of play around here but I thought we’d keep him. He is a damn good back and has shown it. If Chubb gets hurt, I hope we have Kareem to help our run game.
For as long as I can remember when the draft begins; the Browns looked to the draft to solve problems.
Let's face it every team has position questions. As a year ends teams are forced to cut players. Or, players leave holes as they enter free agency.
Contracts expire. Players retire.
Today we could field our starting team. I really can not remember being in this position. In addition, we may still sign free agents. I mean we may resign Hunt. And, or we may sign another D lineman.
In addition we enter the draft with eight picks.
We have added: Tomlinson, Dobbs, Moore, Goodwin, Adams, Ford, Hurst, Akins, Hill, Obo, Thornhill, and resigned Kunaszyk, Taki, Green, Pocic, Walker
That is a large transition. Plus we have a new defensive coordinator and ST coordinator and some position coaches.
The 2023 Browns are a different team.
Camp will be competitive. It will not be easy to make this roster. There are a number of guys who will be fighting to stay on the team.
When I look back at other seasons at this time. There were always major doubts. I can not say what the end of 2023 will look like. But it sure is refreshing to be in this position for once.
According to this ESPN grading scale, the Browns roster is ranked 9th overall.
Not surprisingly, our OL is ranked the highest of our position groups, followed by the corners, with QB and Edge being tied for third best. Some may argue the RB unit should be higher, but it's right behind the QB and Edge ranking. I'm assuming that not signing Hunt and losing DEJ hurt that particular grade.
I think our grade is actually pushed a good bit down because of DW's performance last season. If he returns to form, it appears that would be a big bump up assuming the percentages at the top relate to weighting.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
For as long as I can remember when the draft begins; the Browns looked to the draft to solve problems.
Let's face it every team has position questions. As a year ends teams are forced to cut players. Or, players leave holes as they enter free agency.
Contracts expire. Players retire.
Today we could field our starting team. I really can not remember being in this position. In addition, we may still sign free agents. I mean we may resign Hunt. And, or we may sign another D lineman.
In addition we enter the draft with eight picks.
We have added: Tomlinson, Dobbs, Moore, Goodwin, Adams, Ford, Hurst, Akins, Hill, Obo, Thornhill, and resigned Kunaszyk, Taki, Green, Pocic, Walker
That is a large transition. Plus we have a new defensive coordinator and ST coordinator and some position coaches.
The 2023 Browns are a different team.
Camp will be competitive. It will not be easy to make this roster. There are a number of guys who will be fighting to stay on the team.
When I look back at other seasons at this time. There were always major doubts. I can not say what the end of 2023 will look like. But it sure is refreshing to be in this position for once.
Well said. There is much to like about this off-season. I'm not at all excited about Dobbs and/or Walker coming back (don't hate it...don't love it)...Goodwin is a bit of a flyer (in a good way)...and I think Browns fans in general crazy-overvalue DPJ (who I really like)...BUT...looking at these moves ON THE WHOLE...it's awfully hard to be critical of how Berry & Co went at this off-season. Moore and Goodwin might not be world-beaters...BUT...when added to Cooper, those guys help make the unit (& DPJ) dramatically better than we've had since I-don't-know-when. Another athletic TE in Akins is just what we needed IMO. Good stuff all around and I didn't even opine on the D additions.
They could still use a vet DT/DE and they should be able to find some contributors in the draft - even with limited ammo to do so. I'd feel better if we found a decent FA Safety to backup the group before the draft. Very little to complain about.
For as long as I can remember when the draft begins; the Browns looked to the draft to solve problems.
Let's face it every team has position questions. As a year ends teams are forced to cut players. Or, players leave holes as they enter free agency.
Contracts expire. Players retire.
Today we could field our starting team. I really can not remember being in this position. In addition, we may still sign free agents. I mean we may resign Hunt. And, or we may sign another D lineman.
In addition we enter the draft with eight picks.
We have added: Tomlinson, Dobbs, Moore, Goodwin, Adams, Ford, Hurst, Akins, Hill, Obo, Thornhill, and resigned Kunaszyk, Taki, Green, Pocic, Walker
That is a large transition. Plus we have a new defensive coordinator and ST coordinator and some position coaches.
The 2023 Browns are a different team.
Camp will be competitive. It will not be easy to make this roster. There are a number of guys who will be fighting to stay on the team.
When I look back at other seasons at this time. There were always major doubts. I can not say what the end of 2023 will look like. But it sure is refreshing to be in this position for once.
I don't think there has been a team as active in free agency So far then the Browns. Berry has been aggressive and not OVERPAID for any free agent But I will say all these additions this year tells you how Over rated the Browns roster was going into last year. So many had the Browns predicted to win the North Or be a Wild Card
Some complain, but for what it is worth as reports after being a pro are limited. At least this gives a baseline idea since few of us know anything about the guy.
I am on the record for years: I do not give a hoot about who wins us games — just win, baby. Welcome to the new Browns; win us some games! I think this FA has done us more good than FA has for quite awhile. I feel better about the draft with our FA signings. The season will prove whether it was enough good. Unleash the Elf!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
PHOENIX — The first day of the NFL Owners Meetings in Phoenix brought with it news of another Browns addition.
A league source confirmed to the Beacon Journal that Cleveland will sign offensive guard Wes Martin at some point this week. ESPN's Jeremy Fowler was the first to report.
Martin fits in with the Browns as a candidate to be one of the interior depth players on the offensive line. The Browns lost Hjalte Froholdt, who held that role last year, when he signed as a free agent this month with the Arizona Cardinals.
Another potential interior depth piece from last season, Michael Dunn, remains a restricted free agent. The Browns did re-sign center Ethan Pocic to a three-year deal, the only offensive line move they've made in free agency prior to this week.
Martin, who grew up in West Milton, Ohio, and attended Milton Union High School, has spent his entire career on active rosters in the NFC East since being a 2019 fourth-round pick by Washington out of Indiana University.
The first two seasons were spent with Washington, playing in a combined 32 games, including a playoff game, with 10 starts. He appeared in all 17 games, regular season and playoffs, for the team during the 2020 season.
The New York Giants signed Martin on Sept. 21, 2021, after he had ended up on the Commanders' practice squad. He played seven games, including one start, with the Giants before being waived the following May.
Martin initially signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars last season, but was released on Aug. 23. The next day, he returned to Washington, where he played six games, almost exclusively on special teams.
According to Pro Football Reference, Martin has played 760 offensive snaps and 128 special-teams snaps.
Contact Chris at ceasterling@thebeaconjournal.com.
On Twitter: @ceasterlingABJ
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I hope we re-sign Dunn. He got banged up last year, but I liked him better than Froholdt.
I agree. mac is pretty salty about losing Froholdt (which is fine) but I think Dunn would have played ahead of Froholdt if Dunn's health would have allowed it. I read this morning that Dunn is the same age as Conklin...not that that is old, but maybe they want a younger guy with even-more upside than Dunn.
PHOENIX — The first day of the NFL Owners Meetings in Phoenix brought with it news of another Browns addition.
A league source confirmed to the Beacon Journal that Cleveland will sign offensive guard Wes Martin at some point this week. ESPN's Jeremy Fowler was the first to report.
Martin fits in with the Browns as a candidate to be one of the interior depth players on the offensive line. The Browns lost Hjalte Froholdt, who held that role last year, when he signed as a free agent this month with the Arizona Cardinals.
Another potential interior depth piece from last season, Michael Dunn, remains a restricted free agent. The Browns did re-sign center Ethan Pocic to a three-year deal, the only offensive line move they've made in free agency prior to this week.
Martin, who grew up in West Milton, Ohio, and attended Milton Union High School, has spent his entire career on active rosters in the NFC East since being a 2019 fourth-round pick by Washington out of Indiana University.
The first two seasons were spent with Washington, playing in a combined 32 games, including a playoff game, with 10 starts. He appeared in all 17 games, regular season and playoffs, for the team during the 2020 season.
The New York Giants signed Martin on Sept. 21, 2021, after he had ended up on the Commanders' practice squad. He played seven games, including one start, with the Giants before being waived the following May.
Martin initially signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars last season, but was released on Aug. 23. The next day, he returned to Washington, where he played six games, almost exclusively on special teams.
According to Pro Football Reference, Martin has played 760 offensive snaps and 128 special-teams snaps.
Contact Chris at ceasterling@thebeaconjournal.com.
On Twitter: @ceasterlingABJ
A part of the Wes Martin signing that I haven't noticed being mentioned on the boards here is that Callahan was still with Washington when Martin was drafted. There's some first hand experience between the two, so if Callahan wanted him, I'll trust he knows what he's doing.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Hey Bone, I have to ask you. Do you think with our new coaches and all the FA signings we should be getting at least a little excited about 2023 or because we're Browns fans and know better, we should just stay reserved and be quietly optimistic?
When it comes to the Browns it is a hard ask. We as fans are so front and center on every breath of news regarding our team.
I felt very strongly that free agency would tell the story. There were many questions related to the cap as to what could we do?
As I look today. I did not see that we would add so many players. I felt we would maybe get five or so guys.
We have added eleven and resigned five. And it is still expected that we will add more free agents. Then we have eight draft picks.
That is 19 new players at least. The number when all is said and done?
So let's begin with that. Then add the changes in the coordinators and coaches. So we are a much different team than 2022.
To answer your question we have to start with Deshaun Watson. I will state what I believe. Some will question or disagree.
What quarterback will we see in 2023? I firmly believe we will see the guy who is listed 6'3" 223 lbs and how he played 2018, 2019, and 2020.
He averaged 4,280 and threw for 68.6 completion percentage. That average is over 47 games. The six games last year IMO were more akin to exhibition games under the full spectrum of circumstances of 2022.
With that stated. The NFL is really tight. Teams are very close and there are loads of talent spread all around. The AFC has the premier quarterbacks.
Even at this early stage with the roster not final. I seriously believe we can compete with any team. Games are decided in fractions so I will not predict a record.
I think we should be optimistic and not be reserved.
I'm inclined to agree with what you stated. I don't have a crystal ball but if I had to bet I would say we are going to see the DW of a few years ago or at least a reasonable facsimile. That, along with our new WR group, a rebuilt D and better coaching staff to me equates to a very competitive team. Whatever team stays the healthiest could determine who comes out on top in the AFC.
Exactly and if a couple of those plays went our way in a few of those games last season our record would have been 10-7 and we would have made the playoffs. That's hard to fathom considering how bad our run D was along with the defensive backfield issues.
PHOENIX — The first day of the NFL Owners Meetings in Phoenix brought with it news of another Browns addition.
A league source confirmed to the Beacon Journal that Cleveland will sign offensive guard Wes Martin at some point this week. ESPN's Jeremy Fowler was the first to report.
Martin fits in with the Browns as a candidate to be one of the interior depth players on the offensive line. The Browns lost Hjalte Froholdt, who held that role last year, when he signed as a free agent this month with the Arizona Cardinals.
Another potential interior depth piece from last season, Michael Dunn, remains a restricted free agent. The Browns did re-sign center Ethan Pocic to a three-year deal, the only offensive line move they've made in free agency prior to this week.
Martin, who grew up in West Milton, Ohio, and attended Milton Union High School, has spent his entire career on active rosters in the NFC East since being a 2019 fourth-round pick by Washington out of Indiana University.
The first two seasons were spent with Washington, playing in a combined 32 games, including a playoff game, with 10 starts. He appeared in all 17 games, regular season and playoffs, for the team during the 2020 season.
The New York Giants signed Martin on Sept. 21, 2021, after he had ended up on the Commanders' practice squad. He played seven games, including one start, with the Giants before being waived the following May.
Martin initially signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars last season, but was released on Aug. 23. The next day, he returned to Washington, where he played six games, almost exclusively on special teams.
According to Pro Football Reference, Martin has played 760 offensive snaps and 128 special-teams snaps.
Contact Chris at ceasterling@thebeaconjournal.com.
On Twitter: @ceasterlingABJ[/quote]
A part of the Wes Martin signing that I haven't noticed being mentioned on the boards here is that Callahan was still with Washington when Martin was drafted. There's some first hand experience between the two, so if Callahan wanted him, I'll trust he knows what he's doing.[/quote]
Nice catch, bull. You can bet Callahan put in his two cents about Wes.
Martin fits in with the Browns as a candidate to be one of the interior depth players on the offensive line. The Browns lost Hjalte Froholdt, who held that role last year, when he signed as a free agent this month with the Arizona Cardinals.
Makes no sense for the Browns allow their best back up OG to be poached by the Cardinals and now the Browns are forced to sort through the "leftovers" in an effort to fill the void.
BTW, the Cardinals thank Andrew Berry for allowing them to poach the Browns 'best backup OG' who is projected to become "a starter" for the Cards.
Let that sink in for a bit...
...Now Berry is searching for someone to fill the void "he created" when he failed to resign HF.
Damn media for running that conspiring against Froholdt. I can't believe Berry was flimflammed into believing their reports. He was hoodwinked! Bamboozled!
Edit: I forgot a couple more: He was lead up the garden path! Snookered! Goldbricked! (yes, for these extras I'm using the dictionary for synonyms)
Last edited by ScottPlayersFacemask; 03/28/2301:58 PM.
Imagine being so biased against someone in the FO that you're left criticizing him for not filling a "void" in a backup OL who didn't even play that well. But he's now "projected" starter on a inferior, if not terrible, line in ARZ.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Mac: "Makes no sense for the Browns allow their best back up OG to be poached by the Cardinals and now the Browns are forced to sort through the "leftovers" in an effort to fill the void.
BTW, the Cardinals thank Andrew Berry for allowing them to poach the Browns 'best backup OG' who is projected to become "a starter" for the Cards."
Other way to look at it: what you are saying is Berry did an excellent job of keeping/re-signing two great guards and signing last year/retaining a good center. This means we didn't have to overpay for Froholt. Because of this, AZ is using our leftovers as a starter b/c we have depth and they do not. This gives us the option to save a little bit of money and bring in another option (like Wes) and also keep developing a few of our other younger lineman.
Martin fits in with the Browns as a candidate to be one of the interior depth players on the offensive line. The Browns lost Hjalte Froholdt, who held that role last year, when he signed as a free agent this month with the Arizona Cardinals.
Makes no sense for the Browns allow their best back up OG to be poached by the Cardinals and now the Browns are forced to sort through the "leftovers" in an effort to fill the void.
BTW, the Cardinals thank Andrew Berry for allowing them to poach the Browns 'best backup OG' who is projected to become "a starter" for the Cards.
Let that sink in for a bit...
...Now Berry is searching for someone to fill the void "he created" when he failed to resign HF.
Fact!
Froholdt was offered double of what he made with us to go and play for the Cardinals.
The Cards GM and coaching staff view Froholdt as a potential starter and at the least, quality depth...
The Browns GM viewed Froholdt as an unneeded backup...
How can this be..? Someone is not very good at judging Offensive Line talent..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team that isn't very good at judging OL talent is likely the one ranked 31st here: link
We have good starters at all 3 interior OL positions.
Arizona's starter last year at center has retired and only their LT from last year is/was still under contract
One of the bullet points on the "guardrails" sheet was "Don't Pay for Depth." Froholdt would have been depth for us. Arizona needs new starters everywhere-- below average is better than what they had when free agency started.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Me too. He still has some gas left in the tank and would have been a good addition. But either he wanted too much money or simply wasn't a part of the plan.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Cards GM and coaching staff view Froholdt as a potential starter and at the least, quality depth...
The Browns GM viewed Froholdt as an unneeded backup...
How can this be..? Someone is not very good at judging Offensive Line talent..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team that isn't very good at judging OL talent is likely the one ranked 31st here: link
We have good starters at all 3 interior OL positions.
Yes we do..and what happens when one of our 3 interior OL is injured...like last year? Will the Browns be able to call on a backup who has experience running the Browns offensive system?
...Maybe it's just me, it just seems like A GOOD IDEA to have an experienced backup filling in should one of our outstanding lineman be injured...like last season..!
Arizona's starter last year at center has retired and only their LT from last year is/was still under contract
Bull...yes, the Cards had a need for good OLine talent and when the Browns judged Froholdt as nothing more than an UNNEEDED BACKUP..the Cards took advantage of the opportunity to add a potential starter to their roster...but the Cards snatched him up, despite the Browns LOW OPINION of Froholdt.
Some might believe that the Cards were just desperate and had no idea what they were doing by signing HF..but the truth is, the Cards had an advantage over the rest of the teams looking to add OLine talent..the Cards had a scout who was able to watch HF every day of the 2022 season..! The Cards added a new OC who happened to be the Browns QB coach in 2022..Cardinals offensive coordinator Drew Petzing was quarterbacks coach for the Browns last season..and Petzing had the opportunity to watch Froholdt every day in practice as well as each game that HF played in.
Not only did the Cards have a new OC who had the opportunity to watch and scout Froholdt during the 2022 season, the Cards new GM, Monti Ossenfort was the Director of College Scouting for the Patriots in 2019, the year that the Patriots drafted Froholdt in the 4th round (pick#118 of the 2019 draft). It is the Cards judgement that Froholdt is a potential starter.
The only team with more information on Froholdt was the Browns GM Andrew Berry, who treated Froholdt and nothing more than AN UNNEEDED BACKUP...
...HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN..?
One of the bullet points on the "guardrails" sheet was "Don't Pay for Depth." Froholdt would have been depth for us.
Bull...at this very moment the Browns front office is searching for depth at WR, DT, DE, TE, DB and LB and they are willing to OVERPAY for backup talent if necessary. THE GUARDRAILS only apply to Andrew Berry when he wants fall back on that lame excuse for not knowing how to evaluate talent...ESPECIALLY OFFENSIVE LINE TALENT..!
In what way during these off season FA signings have you seen the Browns willingness to "OVERPAY for backup talent"? I mean it's nice to just throw out vomit so someone has to clean it up but I haven't seen anything that even resembles what you posted.
In fact the very example you're trying to use, Froholdt, would indicate just the opposite. He was signed to a 2 year, $4,600,000 contract with the Arizona Cardinals, including a $1,100,000 signing bonus, $2,110,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $2,300,000. Suggesting what you are is actually promoting the very thing you accuse this FO of doing. Overpaying for a backup. Which is what they refused to do with Froholdt.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Cards GM and coaching staff view Froholdt as a potential starter and at the least, quality depth...
The Browns GM viewed Froholdt as an unneeded backup...
How can this be..? Someone is not very good at judging Offensive Line talent..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team that isn't very good at judging OL talent is likely the one ranked 31st here: link
We have good starters at all 3 interior OL positions.
Yes we do..and what happens when one of our 3 interior OL is injured...like last year? Will the Browns be able to call on a backup who has experience running the Browns offensive system?
(1)...Maybe it's just me, it just seems like A GOOD IDEA to have an experienced backup filling in should one of our outstanding lineman be injured...like last season..!
Arizona's starter last year at center has retired and only their LT from last year is/was still under contract
(2)Bull...yes, the Cards had a need for good OLine talent and when the Browns judged Froholdt as nothing more than an UNNEEDED BACKUP..the Cards took advantage of the opportunity to add a potential starter to their roster...but the Cards snatched him up, despite the Browns LOW OPINION of Froholdt.
Some might believe that the Cards were just desperate and had no idea what they were doing by signing HF..but the truth is, the Cards had an advantage over the rest of the teams looking to add OLine talent..the Cards had a scout who was able to watch HF every day of the 2022 season..! The Cards added a new OC who happened to be the Browns QB coach in 2022..Cardinals offensive coordinator Drew Petzing was quarterbacks coach for the Browns last season..and Petzing had the opportunity to watch Froholdt every day in practice as well as each game that HF played in.
Not only did the Cards have a new OC who had the opportunity to watch and scout Froholdt during the 2022 season, the Cards new GM, Monti Ossenfort was the Director of College Scouting for the Patriots in 2019, the year that the Patriots drafted Froholdt in the 4th round (pick#118 of the 2019 draft). It is the Cards judgement that Froholdt is a potential starter.
The only team with more information on Froholdt was the Browns GM Andrew Berry, who treated Froholdt and nothing more than AN UNNEEDED BACKUP...
...HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN..?
One of the bullet points on the "guardrails" sheet was "Don't Pay for Depth." Froholdt would have been depth for us.
(3)Bull...at this very moment the Browns front office is searching for depth at WR, DT, DE, TE, DB and LB and they are willing to OVERPAY for backup talent if necessary. THE GUARDRAILS only apply to Andrew Berry when he wants fall back on that lame excuse for not knowing how to evaluate talent...ESPECIALLY OFFENSIVE LINE TALENT..!
1. We have Harris backing up Pocic at C. We have Deaton and Forbes backing up our Gs. We're bringing in Wes Martin as well. If they all get hurt, we're screwed, but, if you have to play the backups backups, that's generally the case.
2. Froholdt ended up playing 61 offensive snaps for New England and was promptly cut 3 weeks later after seeing no further offensive snaps. He played 0 regular season snaps in NE while Ossenfort was there. Monti had moved on to the Titans after 2019 which Hjalte missed with a shoulder injury.
The Cards not only had a need for "good OLine talent." They had a need for any OL, period. Froholdt didn't make PFFs Interior OL FA rankings.
Are you sure the Cardinals "jumped on" Froholdt? Or did other OL just not want to come play for a defensive HC with a first time OC, an inexperienced OL coach, and an immature QB? There's also the fact that Arizona got Fs in all categories of the recent player report card except for strength and training staffs.
Maybe Froholdt took pity on Petzing. Or maybe he just took advantage of their desperation and willingness to pay him more than any other team
3. "Depth" at other positions sees the field a lot more than OL. If starting OL are healthy, they are staying on the field. You might have formations with extra OL (usually OTs), but you don't swap starters out in sub-packages. Sub-packages make "depth" at other positions effectively starters in their packages. Who do you think they overpaid?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Browns have 13th-best Super Bowl odds after free agency
Cory Kinnan March 29, 2023 2:30 pm ET
The Cleveland Browns took to NFL free agency with efficiency, filling massive voids on their roster. From defensive tackle Dalvin Tomlinson to landing wide receiver Elijah Moore in a trade with the New York Jets, the Browns enter 2023 with a better outlook than they did a year ago. And according to Tipico Sportsbook, they now sit with the 13th-best odds to win the Super Bowl, sitting at +3500.
For any of this to take place, the Browns will need quarterback Deshaun Watson to return to form. However, as the 2023 NFL Draft nears, they certainly did an excellent job adding talent at key positions to their roster.
I’m glad Calais Campbell is out of the AFC N at least
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
1. We have Harris backing up Pocic at C. We have Deaton and Forbes backing up our Gs. We're bringing in Wes Martin as well. If they all get hurt, we're screwed, but, if you have to play the backups backups, that's generally the case.
Bull...we might not want to laugh at the possibility that of all 3 backups being injured...Harris and Deaton are coming off knee injury and Wes Martin, a frequent waiver wire player for 4 teams since 2019.
Quote
2. Froholdt ended up playing 61 offensive snaps for New England and was promptly cut 3 weeks later after seeing no further offensive snaps. He played 0 regular season snaps in NE while Ossenfort was there. Monti had moved on to the Titans after 2019 which Hjalte missed with a shoulder injury.
Rookie Froholdt was placed on IR by the Patriots after he injured a shoulder in the 4th pre-season game of the 2019 season. Monti Ossenfort was the Patriots director of college scouting and scouted Froholdt for the Patriots. Ossenfort who was a QB in college and since he scouted Froholdt for the Patriots, both he and Petzing, the Cardinals new OC as of Feb. 2023 had enough background on HF to know when jump on a potential starter who was being given away by the Browns.
One more fact..HF played 592 snaps for the Browns last season...
1. We have Harris backing up Pocic at C. We have Deaton and Forbes backing up our Gs. We're bringing in Wes Martin as well. If they all get hurt, we're screwed, but, if you have to play the backups backups, that's generally the case.
Bull...we might not want to laugh at the possibility that of all 3 backups being injured...Harris and Deaton are coming off knee injury and Wes Martin, a frequent waiver wire player for 4 teams since 2019.
Quote
2. Froholdt ended up playing 61 offensive snaps for New England and was promptly cut 3 weeks later after seeing no further offensive snaps. He played 0 regular season snaps in NE while Ossenfort was there. Monti had moved on to the Titans after 2019 which Hjalte missed with a shoulder injury.
Rookie Froholdt was placed on IR by the Patriots after he injured a shoulder in the 4th pre-season game of the 2019 season. Monti Ossenfort was the Patriots director of college scouting and scouted Froholdt for the Patriots. Ossenfort who was a QB in college and since he scouted Froholdt for the Patriots, both he and Petzing, the Cardinals new OC as of Feb. 2023 had enough background on HF to know when jump on a potential starter who was being given away by the Browns.
One more fact..HF played 592 snaps for the Browns last season...
Yes, multiple injuries can happen. However, with 53 man rosters you can't carry 5 backups at every position. You can't even carry 2. 22 × 3=66 (11 starters on O and D gives 22, 1 starter and 2 backups gives 3), and that's not even including specialists. You knock Wes Martin as a frequent waiver wire player, but since both were drafted in 2019, Martin has started 11 games to Froholdt's 6. Hjalte's been waived, too, including by the Browns in 2021.
Froholdt has been a bottom of the roster player that good teams look to replace with cheaper alternatives. The Cardinals are a bad team that lacked alternatives. Apparently people in the NFL stay attached to their draft crushes despite their NFL performance just like fans do.
...FH played more than 592 snaps for us last year. Those were just the offensive. He's credited with 71 special teams snaps as well.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I wasn't following along, but, I saw that 3 time @uoted paragraph, and umm, Harris, Forbes, and Deaton, that is 3 players that can't be counted on. Between the 3 of them there is no player imo. Wouldn't be a problem if all 3 were gone off the roster. Who continually picks and sticks with options that are not reliable for anything except being grosly overmatched on a snap by snap basis. That, and going with the DL, between Elliot, and the guy worse than Elliott who got regular season play last year iirc, and then someone like A Schwartz or the linebackers.
The only thing the Browns front office does consistently is REACH, and then they keep and play the REACHS while they bust and get overmatched. It's loopy
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I actually think a free lancer like Odell could work with a maverick like Rodgers. How healthy he stays and how many games he plays is another matter. Also don't think learning the play book and knowing where to line up will be an issue, that was just a CLE thing.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It could also have to do with reports saying that Rodgers requested the Jets sign OBJ.
that sounds so much like hearsay I'd ask for a link, but internet search has a bunch of links some by expn. And only one response by Rogers calling it nonsense on march fourteenth.
Kind of reminds me of a movie called "coming to America" wherein the dad announced a wedding that the bride, his daughter had not agreed to.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
He was about to turn it around and be a perennial pro-bowler.
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
He was about to turn it around and be a perennial pro-bowler.
Nope...slot WR. Frohodt was our 4th C...Pocic...Harris...Dunn...last guy in line.
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
There's really only one person that's making an issue of dumping him.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
Appreciating good OLine and DLine play is not a strength of the Browns GM.
The personnel Berry drafted and added on the defensive side were a weak link of the Browns defense last season...with the addition of Jim Schwartz as the Browns defensive coordinator I look for improvement. Hopefully Berry will take advantage of DC Jim Schwartz's experience and knowledge to improve his own ability to judge football talent...especially on the interior Dlineman and LBs.
No, "Tackles are not just Tackles"...each one is different..!
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
Appreciating good OLine and DLine play is not a strength of the Browns GM.
The personnel Berry drafted and added on the defensive side were a weak link of the Browns defense last season...with the addition of Jim Schwartz as the Browns defensive coordinator I look for improvement. Hopefully Berry will take advantage of DC Jim Schwartz's experience and knowledge to improve his own ability to judge football talent...especially on the interior Dlineman and LBs.
No, "Tackles are not just Tackles"...each one is different..!
Is that why we have one of the highest paid OL in the League? 🤔
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