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I was about to write the same thing (about correcting typos), but then I figured his teacher probably hasn't covered that in English class yet.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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I hear ya Eotab. I don't see why some are just so trigger-happy to write the kid off.
Who is writing him off?
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All this bruhaha over did he or didn't he,, I'll leave that to the folks on here that think they know it all.
Great tactic. Insult those who don't agree w/you. That makes your point of view so much stronger. 
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Until it's proven otherwise, I'll take the kid at his word..
Sometimes (OJ, Jodi Arias, Kacey Anthony, RayRay) there isn't absolute proof, and there never will be.
1) Do you honestly not think that being on the watchlist, there's a frickin' chance in the world he wasn't informed by the NFL that he'd be watched like a hawk and that he'd better be sure what's in the prescription meds he's taking?
1) Do you honestly think a physician would prescribe cough syrup to an NFL player and not tell him it contains codeine, or not even consider that it's a banned substance?
I'm sorry, but considering Gordon's recent history, I'm not buying that these two extremely unlikely circumstances occurred. The NFL is NOT going to tell us what actually happened, and we have to form an opinion based on what we do know. What's out there now is all we're going to get. There will be no absolute proof.
I hope Gordon pulls his head out of his arse and becomes a productive player for us. This was not an innocent mistake IMO.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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PDR...history is just that...HISTORY. I see no Behavior pattern to be ASSumed still exists.
How can you possibly not see a behavior pattern here?
He's failed at least 4 drug tests in the last three years. He lied about failing one less than a year ago.
You could argue that the behavior pattern doesn't always tell the whole story, but to say that you can't see a pattern is plugging your ears and singing.
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1. Age with age comes Maturity.
2. He was not a student. He did not care about his scholarships. Combined with youth made the bad choices.
3. Now this is about MONEY. He is now what? 22 and we are talking about Millions for himself his future n his family. combined with some maturity. All the reason to have a different behavioral pattern from the days of college. Do you do the same stupid things you did in college. I dont and most of America does not.
People mature as they age? College kids do dumb things?
Yeah, I'm the one making ASSUmptions.
Bottom line - Josh Gordon came into this league with a big knock against him - he couldn't pass drug tests, and it kept him off the field.
He just failed another drug test that will keep him off the field.
Given this history and behavior pattern, coupled with the fact that he lied about failing a drug test less than a year ago, and I'm not inclined to believe that this was an honest mistake.
You're free to think that it was, but don't act like I'm pulling things out of my backside or making baseless assumptions any more than you are.
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Josh Gordon came into this league with a big knock against him - he couldn't pass drug tests, and it kept him off the field.
He just failed another drug test that will keep him off the field.
That about puts it into the simplest terms. There's no silver lining in this cloud.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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The only thing I hope is that missing 2 games, and then playing 2 more games for free makes some sort of impact on him. He is an extremely talented kid, but also is proof that talent does not always bring common sense with it. Hopefully he losing the money he will lose gets through to him. It's obvious that losing time on the field has never mattered all that much to him in the past.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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People mature as they age? College kids do dumb things? Yeah, I'm the one making ASSUmptions.
Can I just assume you are a college kid. 
Got news for you People do mature. Most of the maturing I have seen in life usually comes with parenthood. College kids do dumb things...yeah I know how absurd I missed the boat on that one
My point was very simple. He didn't care about College. It was not his career. He just didn't see it as so and he didn't respect the education enough to "Mature" or to see it as something he viewed as a threat of losing. Obviously he didn't care enough about staying in school to straighten up.
Now a couple of years older. A little life lesson to help n this is no longer about school. He no longer is the coddled teenager given chances. This is about something he possibly wants...not an education...but very simply put - $$$$ Possibly that was his goal to Make Money (a lot of it) playing football. A little more incentive than the norm to just quit.
Pattern - I see him in a different stage of his life. Not his Teenage do dumb things in college stage. Where get all the freedom of choice n so so many times make the wrong ones.
JMHO Don't get insulted. If you are a college kid...more than likely you will mature greatly over the 5 years following college n out in the real world. No biggy. If you are not I then just cannot see how you took this to the nth that you did. Its ok everybody is wrong every now n then...lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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well he better mature quick.2 more mistakes/accident? and he is out of the nfl. same with haden?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Can I just assume you are a college kid.
Got news for you People do mature. Most of the maturing I have seen in life usually comes with parenthood. College kids do dumb things...yeah I know how absurd I missed the boat on that one
I never disputed that those things don't occur.
My point is, you're accusing me of leaping to conclusions based on things I don't know. You're taking to things you hope are happening with Josh Gordon, and just applying them to him, despite a lack of evidence as to what you're talking about.
You can talk with condescension or use all the graemlins you want. You're trying to argue that there's no behavior pattern to suggest Josh Gordon has a problem. There is. You're ignoring it, and attributing general platitudes onto him.
What evidence have you seen to make you think he's learning from the error of his ways?
The error of his way was failing drug tests, and lying about them.
He didn't even make it a whole year without failing a drug test. And you want to scoff at people who think he might be lying about it.
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Pattern - I see him in a different stage of his life.
You want to believe that he's in a different stage of his life. There's not much to hang your hat on, evidence-wise.
You know what stage of life he's in right now?
On the bench, because he failed a drug test.
Seems oddly reminiscent of the old leaf, doesn't it?
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It seems like the NFL believed his story somewhat. The usual suspension is four games but they reduced his to two games while fining him four game checks.
The NFL reduce Big Ben's rape suspension, that doesn't mean anything.
Its sad that in todays society we can even compare rape to taking cough medicine  
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Some people simply expect and assume the very worst in people. Those people will never change. I know his history is jaded, yet that only gives those who expect the worst fuel for their fire.
That's the spirit. Rip the character of anyone who doesn't agree w/you. 
My intent was not to rip the character of "everyone" who disagrees with me. But you know as well as I do that there are some who always do try to look, especially at players, as if they're guilty until proven innocent. Surely you've been around long enough to realize this.
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Rather than expect the worst, I hope for the best. And I've seen no evidence showing anything otherwise than this was a mistake. So rather than point fingers and make ASSumptions, rather than make ASSertions with nothing to back them up, I'll take this at face value and hope that going forward we see nothing like this again.
It's amazing what a little bit of semantics can do to making an argument. I'll remember to point this out when you get upset w/people who are hoping for the best w/the new FO. LMAO man, you criticize people for hoping for the best in one situation and then again for not hoping for the best. Must be nice to jump around like that.
Actually I was one who disagreed with the drafting of Gordon due to his history. I thought it was far too high of an investment considering his past. I wasn't shy about those feelings on this board either. My feelings were the same about Lombardi and to a lesser extent Banner. I also made those feelings known.
Problem being, they are all now a part of the Browns. This FO and Josh Gordon. I have given this FO props on many of the moves they have made. The signing of Kruger, of Bess and other moves I won't sit here and list. But I have been fair after giving my initial feelings about these guys.
The same goes for Gordon. He has shown he has ability and the potential to be a great WR. His weed history and Lombardi's draft history both stink to high heaven.
If you notice, or even if you didn't, I said I "hope" for the best in this case. I didn't state that I believed him or if I didn't believe him. I also hope for the best with this FO. I agree that the situation doesn't look good if you wish to know the truth in regards to Gordon.
Even if Gordon's story is true, it's a very stupid thing to do considering his history. However, I do feel reaches and assertions he was doing street drugs holds no merit given what we do know about the case. Do I have questions and doubts in this regard? Yes I do.
In case you missed it, I wasn't one of those calling for heads because our draft picks were traded. I haven't called into question the FA signings. So while you make very substantial claims, I really haven't been attacking this FO with the acception of my initial thoughts about them just as I did Gordon.
I think you completely missed the mark on this one.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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All this bruhaha over did he or didn't he,, I'll leave that to the folks on here that think they know it all.
Great tactic. Insult those who don't agree w/you. That makes your point of view so much stronger.
I learned it from you
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sometimes (OJ, Jodi Arias, Kacey Anthony, RayRay) there isn't absolute proof, and there never will be.
Then in the eyes of the law, they are innocent or at least not guilty..
That's the system we live in.. it isn't perfect,, and it's easy as hell to condemn someone for what we THINK he/she did, but the way it works, they are innocent until we prove them guilty.
But if you take a moment to explain that very simple truth, some on here label you simply because that simple truth doesn't fit their agenda..
Hell I don't care if he is or isn't guilty. if he is, kick him to the curì. It will be a damn shame because he's talented, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
But he deserves his day in court.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We're not in a court of law, and in this case, I think the burden of proof lies with Gordon. As Phil said, his biggest knock was not being on the field due to substance abuse......and now he's again not on the field due to substance abuse. Sometimes the picture is as clear as it looks.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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While I'm certainly not his biggest fan, I trust Banner to do the right thing in these types of situations.
Banner doesn't strike me as a guy that would put up with this type of thing for very long (especially if it's as bad as we're guessing).
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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Some people need to quit thinking the NFL gave him a break by giving him 2 games instead of 4. Last yr. they gave a player 2 games off & 4 games with no pay, and it was for pot. Why does anybody think they gave him a break?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Again I have asked others who have stated that - can you provide an article regarding that? Cause there are different reports from the board members - some have said that it was possession of pot n not a failed drug test.
I thought the Break...was the fact it was a prescription not related to his Pot history that got him 2 games not 4???
Even so there is no (and understand almost impossible to prove) Proof he got caught with a bad test for Pot smoking. All that was said and it was by Gordon it was for a banned substance he took in a form of a medicine for a case of Strep throat. That is all we know as reported fact.
If there is no history with the NFL since the new CBA of a 2 game for just smoking pot as a precedent then we can assume he did not get caught with a failed test with pot.
JMH?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Eo, I saw it on the YardBarker, but I can't find it on there now. It seems all the comments about it have gone away.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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He got two instead of four for SOME reason. If there is a precedent for this, concerning weed, that would be good to know.
I noticed that the policy posted earlier was specifically for "STEROIDS AND OTHER RELATED BANNED SUBSTANCES". Codeine is not a steroid or related substance, neither is pot. Are there perhaps a different set of guidelines for pot, or opiates for that matter?
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He has a history. Whether this instance was pot or purple drank or really prescribed medicine he took as prescribed, he needs to be more aware. He needs to understand the league's rules and follow them ALL THE TIME.
I'd hate to see us lose out on his talent, but if it was recreational it's only a matter of time before he gets caught again.
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Given the way this is all shaking out I would still gladly take Gordon over Justin Blackmon.
I am not worried about Gordon missing an entire year. Even guys like Randy Moss wised up and never were suspended for an entire year. Outside of a few outliers like Ricky Williams (who was quite different mentally) it is very rare to lose someone for a long time due to drug use. After losing 4 games salary, I think it hits home how much losing an entire year would cost the guy.
Chances are very good we will never lose Gordon for an entire year. Chances are pretty good he will never be suspended again.
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Will we ever know the truth behind the substance? No. So everything is just speculation. If you want to think he made an honest mistake then nothing will change your mind. If you want to think it was weed then nothing will change your mind.
Personally, I would lean towards the latter ... but either way, one more mistake and he's probably done.
Which is why I choose to not pass judgement either way. I prefer to wait till the truth comes out. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I'm not getting off his back. I knew there would be a bunch of people defending the guy and trashing people who weren't buying his BS. That's fine if you want to live in Make Believe Land, but I won't be joining you. This quote tells me all I need to know:
and I knew there would be a bunch of people building crosses, grabbing a hammer and nails and going to town on the kid, and you won't find me in Make Believe land as I am right down the middle on this disagreeing with both sides.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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u guys wanna believe that he got sick ... went to the docs on his own ... got a script and went and had it filled and took it w/o ever getting ahold of the browns and he's just a victim here .... go ahead ... that's your opinion and your completely entitled to it ... we'll just have to disagree ....
I am not believing either side right now bro as I don't know the answer and defending the kid, or bashing him makes no sense to me as we don't know the truth. If you want to jump to conclusions and think he spent a week with Cheech & Chong at Ricky Williams house that's up to you. I am not and was not agreeing or disagreeing with that. What I do disagree with is people rushing to judgement and talking like their opinion is FACT either way.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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People mature as they age? College kids do dumb things? Yeah, I'm the one making ASSUmptions.
Can I just assume you are a college kid.
Got news for you People do mature. Most of the maturing I have seen in life usually comes with parenthood. College kids do dumb things...yeah I know how absurd I missed the boat on that one
My point was very simple. He didn't care about College. It was not his career. He just didn't see it as so and he didn't respect the education enough to "Mature" or to see it as something he viewed as a threat of losing. Obviously he didn't care enough about staying in school to straighten up.
Now a couple of years older. A little life lesson to help n this is no longer about school. He no longer is the coddled teenager given chances. This is about something he possibly wants...not an education...but very simply put - $$$$ Possibly that was his goal to Make Money (a lot of it) playing football. A little more incentive than the norm to just quit.
Pattern - I see him in a different stage of his life. Not his Teenage do dumb things in college stage. Where get all the freedom of choice n so so many times make the wrong ones.
JMHO Don't get insulted. If you are a college kid...more than likely you will mature greatly over the 5 years following college n out in the real world. No biggy. If you are not I then just cannot see how you took this to the nth that you did. Its ok everybody is wrong every now n then...lol
tab, I am not a college kid and I agree w/almost everything PDR says. You are trying to belittle him to prove your point. That's not cool.
You keep talking about patterns and maturing, but Gordon has not given any indication of maturing. The only pattern is him getting into trouble for breaking the rules.
At least 5 failed drug tests in a couple of years. That is the freaking pattern.
He fails one at Baylor.
He fails another at Baylor and gets kicked out of school.
He goes to Utah and fails another.
He lies about it.
He is suspended for failing another w/in one freaking year in the NFL.
You don't see a pattern?
Those are the facts. Guys like you, GM, Pit, and Daman can make fun of us for not agreeing w/you, but the facts are that this kid has been nailed for failing drug tests repeatedly.
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Those are the facts. Guys like you, GM, Pit, and Daman can make fun of us for not agreeing w/you, but the facts are that this kid has been nailed for failing drug tests repeatedly.
Oh, I'm not making fun of you. I'm just of the opinion I'm not going to throw around wild accusations without something of substance to substantiate it.
I admitted that it doesn't look good. And that I don't know whether to believe him or not. But I'm also not going to sit here and throw dung on a wall hoping it sticks.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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belittling....come on VERS lets not take that road - SMH that you point your finger at me. 
What I'm saying is you n your fellow posters that agree in a position to this Player n chain of events. Is pure speculation and yet you all claim it to be REAL and your NONE BELITTLING POST TO ME n OTHERS: " That's fine if you want to live in Make Believe Land"
And don't get mad but scolding me for belittling by putting a College kid statement which btw was not refuted n I was talking directly to him but did not insult. But you scolding me...People who live in glass houses just should not throw rocks! lol and when I laugh with emoticons you probably take as an insult but just keep in mind I show not a shred of malice as I type this stuff n I smile or laugh I'm doing so with a friendly banter in mind.
Back to the thread.
As I see it we have just a very few facts. And one very close to accurate assumption.
I'll start with the assumption:
Gordon came in the NFL with a Strike ONE n entered in the Subtance abuse program due to the fact he was suspended from play prior to coming here by two institutions due to pot smoking and several failed drug test. Not the 10+ of the Honey Badger kid.
The Facts:
1. Sometime in Feb. He failed a drug test of which he could have been asked to take as much as 10 times a month.
2. Not refuted by any investigative reporter. But fact in a statement put forth by Gordon apologizing for the failed drug test due to a prescription he took during the winter from a case of strep throat. I am not sure if he specifically mentioned the drug in the script or that was an embellishment by the reporter after his statement. I think this could be refuted by a reporter fairly easily.
That is all we got other than one other fact.
He is fined for 4 games but is only being suspended 2. Again reported by a reporter not stated by Gordon or his agent that it was minimized (suspension) due to the lack of intent...this falls under the realm of Speculation.
As far as youth go. I don't know I still deal with a lot of young kids just about Gordon's age. When I talk to them they will say things like "A LONG TIME AGO" later in the convo that "LONG TIME AGO" was like 2 years ago. When you are in your early 20's - 2 years is a long time ago. Cause so many things change in their lives. So I try to put myself in their position of status n choices. 2 years ago I see him as a kid who was at college to PLAY football n get into the NFL....he could care less about an education. He didn't respect the institution either cause they probably were breaking the rules by having boosters drop him some Cash every now n then. In that environment he decided to Smoke Pot n play football. He didn't care too much if he got caught.
Now lets jump forward 2 years later. He got drafted. Went into a program that is pretty strict n in the process got himself a nice cool million for signing w/Browns as a 2nd round pick. There is a system in place to help him make the right choices. He went through his first season clean and worked very hard. He teamed up w/fellow WR Little in the off season working hard n pushing themselves physically. He see's other WRs making a boat load of $$$ in their 2nd contracts. That is the golden egg. I see this as a new ERA for him. His environment is not one of coddling. Most of those repeat offenders just do not work hard in the NFL to become the best like he has...knowing in one of his 10 monthly tests there is no room for a rebound to what? POT SMOKING??? Cigarettes are physically addicting. Alcohol is physically addicting. Pain pills are physically addicting. Pot Smoking - anyone I ever saw who decided to STOP n I'm not talking casual users (my Fresh. roomate was like the King pin drug guy - how we got hooked up, well somebody lied n it wasn't me...lol ) they respected my n my Jock stuff n I took care of them in their parties but each one when the day came n they said "I GOT TO STOP" did so with no relapse.
So to me its not hard to live in my MAKE BELIEVE LAND as you state in a belittling manner. When I know if he decided to recognize what he has here. That he is now a Professional Football Player and this is his Dream Job to set himself up for life. I see other choices that he has made to lead me to believe that somebody working this hard has made that decision...as in well smoking Pot was fun Back in the DAY A LONG TIME AGO (2 years) but now is a different story.
You are out of college n you get a GREAT JOB...you loved to party while in college. But now you are in a REAL JOB and along with the great job, benefits, 7 Figures...you got to take around 10 drug tests A month - year round. What you wish me to believe is that HE CHOSE TO PARTY.
Which could be the case??? I am not 100% certain of his innocence. Just to me - I don't see many making that choice, especially one working very hard to becoming the best, classroom, physically, strength, technique. Guys continuously smoking pot just aren't that motivated. So taking that all in. I just don't see that happening - logically. If that is MAKE BELIEVE LAND.
So be it.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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jc There's some good info in here: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/06/cleveland_browns_wr_josh_gordo_1.htmlQuote:
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns receiver Josh Gordon already has two strikes against him after testing positive for codeine in February, and could get kicked out of the NFL for at least a year if he fails a third drug test, league sources said Saturday.
Gordon's two-game suspension and four-game fine for the codeine -- which he said was contained in cough syrup prescribed for strep throat -- means he was already in Stage Two of the NFL's substance abuse program.
For a player to be suspended, he must have violated the policy at least one other time. That means that Gordon -- who failed three marijuana tests in college and was dismissed from Baylor and Utah -- has tested positive at least five times since October, 2010.
One more failed test and Gordon's storybook NFL career could be in serious jeopardy.
Gordon's positive test in February likely pushes him into Stage 3 of the program, according to league sources, where he faces banishment from the NFL for at least one calendar year if he fails another test.
A player kicked out of the league for substance abuse can apply for reinstatement after the year is up, and it's up to Commissioner Roger Goodell to decide if and when the player can return. Once a player reaches Stage 3, he remains there for the duration of his career.
That means Gordon, who told The Plain Dealer in July that "being sober is not a struggle for me,'' is now apparently skating on very thin ice.
One failed test in Stage 2 doesn't automatically enter a player into Stage 3, but in Gordon's case, it's believed he's that far down the road in less than one year since being taken in the supplemental draft.
There are three ways in which a player immediately advances to Stage 3:
• 1. Two positive drug tests in Stage 2;
• 2. Two instances in which he fails to cooperate with his testing or treatment; or
• 3. One positive test and one instance of failure to comply with his testing or treatment program.
If Gordon is still in Stage 2 after this current episode, he'd face a six-game suspension if he fails another test. But at least one NFL source said Gordon's track record has likely landed him in the third and final phase of the program.
As it stands, Gordon will miss the opener at home against Miami Sept. 8 and a division matchup against Baltimore Sept. 15. He'll be eligible to rejoin the team on Sept. 16 and can participate in all of training camp and the four preseason games.
Gordon will be docked $148,894 -- or 4/17th of his $632,802 base salary. The Browns might also go after a portion of Gordon's $2.3 million signing bonus. Overall, he received a four-year deal worth $5.3 million, including almost $3.8 million guaranteed, after the previous regime spent the 2013 second-round pick to take him in the supplemental draft.
The new regime of CEO Joe Banner and General Manager Mike Lombardi felt a second-rounder by the previous personnel staff was too rich for a player that no other team brought in for a visit or considered drafting that high. Banner admitted at the NFL Combine in February that the jury was still out on Gordon.
When he was drafted, Gordon told The Plain Dealer, "Despite everything I've been through, despite being a kid with a spotty background, the Cleveland Browns stuck their neck out and risked taking me and put their faith and belief in me and I won't let them down. I'm grateful and I know I can't go back to being the person I used to be.''
Gordon shook off the rust and responded with a stellar rookie season, leading with team with 805 yards on 50 catches and a team-high five TD catches. A bona fide deep threat, he averaged an astounding 46 yards on those TD catches.
Some that know Gordom well, including Baylor coach Art Briles, vouch for character and say he's as fine a young man as he is a football player.
But if he's not careful, he might have at least a year to figure out how to prove it.
Hopefully we aren't looking at another Tanard Jackson or Onterrio Smith.
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So much speculation. So what this reported speculation is stating is that he entered into the NFL already in the Stage 2 zone not Stage 1??? Why who goes automatically to stage two.
Also its states that the first violation is 2-4 games at this stage n the 2nd is an AUTOMATIC 6 game suspension...why did he not get 6 games.
I mean I hope he doesn't do anything stupid from here on in and I think if good he can drop back to stage one after several years???
But Reading the new CBA it clearly states there are 2 stages of Stage 2....First is a 2-4 game suspension. Second is a 6 game suspension. Then he would go to Final Stage or Stage 3 where its Banishment (at least 1 year). I don't get why he would be considered skipping the 6 game suspension???
I mean are things set in stone are aren't they??? The NFL should at least put out a statement of where he is at...officially. They don't have to reveal the results if that conflicts with some privacy stuff. But make a statement that he is in Stage ??? What???
JMH?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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As near as I can tell, the way it works is this:
A failed drug test at the combine, an NFL sponsored event, can enter a player into the substance abuse program.
Stage 1 is completely secret. Whether the player failed a drug test at the combine, in trainign camp, or at any other time, it is not disclosed to the public.
Stage 2 is disclosed, though for what offense is not disclosed. Only the fact that a test was failed, and the penalty are disclosed. A player can have 1, or 2 penalties in stage 2, based on certain criteria that we will never be privy to.
Once a player gets 2 suspensions, you can almost bet that he's headed for a major penalty in stage 3 unless he makes serious changes to his lifestyle. Even failure to attend a counselling session can result in a year long suspension. However, the league does not disclose what creates each step in the process .... so we are entirely in the dark.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Did he even participate in the combine?
EDIT: Nevermind, that's irrelevant. You mentioned TC as well. It could have been there.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 06/21/13 11:52 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Oh,, I wanted to thank you for lumping me in with Pit and GM,, At least neither of them are willing to pass judgement without benefit of all the facts like some on here seem to be
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
So much speculation. So what this reported speculation is stating is that he entered into the NFL already in the Stage 2 zone not Stage 1??? Why who goes automatically to stage two.
Also its states that the first violation is 2-4 games at this stage n the 2nd is an AUTOMATIC 6 game suspension...why did he not get 6 games.
I mean I hope he doesn't do anything stupid from here on in and I think if good he can drop back to stage one after several years???
But Reading the new CBA it clearly states there are 2 stages of Stage 2....First is a 2-4 game suspension. Second is a 6 game suspension. Then he would go to Final Stage or Stage 3 where its Banishment (at least 1 year). I don't get why he would be considered skipping the 6 game suspension???
I mean are things set in stone are aren't they??? The NFL should at least put out a statement of where he is at...officially. They don't have to reveal the results if that conflicts with some privacy stuff. But make a statement that he is in Stage ??? What???
JMH?
Nobody enters the league in stage two of the program. It's somewhat unclear whether he was automatically entered into stage one of the program or not. You can read the policy for yourself but we are almost certainly looking at 2, maybe even 3, violations of the policy since he entered the NFL.
http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/PDFs/PlayerDevelopment/2010%20Drug%20Policy.pdf
Start at page 11 Entrance into the intervention stages if you are short on time (from 2010: the new CBA has a reference that the substance abuse policy from 2010 stays in effect)
Stage two does break down into two possible failed tests and the penalty for each is determined by whether or not stage one was successfully completed (not going to summarize the entire policy) and the first failed test is either 4 game fine or 4 game suspension, and the second failed test is either 4 or 6 game suspension, depending on what the first punishment was. Stage two itself is either fine > 4 game suspension or 4 game suspension > 6 game suspension. The two game suspension + 2 game fine seems to be a lesser punishment but is based on a first or second violation while in stage two? I guess the best (worst?) way to find out will be if he is suspended again, and whether it is still stage two and a 6 game suspension or stage three banishment from the league with opportunity to apply for re-instatement after 1 year will tell us what we need to know.
Hopefully it doesn't get to that point. And I wish the NFL could release more info too but by understanding the policy, you can deduce some of the information for yourself. Just realize that the player can say literally anything he wants in relation to violations of the PEDs or substances policies and the NFL can't refute it. There is a $500,000 fine or something ridiculous for those types of confidentiality violations.
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j/c
OVERVIEW OF THE POLICY AND PROGRAM
FOR SUBSTANCES OF ABUSE
WHAT IS COVERED BY THE POLICY?
-- The illegal use of drugs and the abuse of prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs,
and alcohol.
WHAT SUBSTANCES OF ABUSE ARE PROHIBITED?
-- Cocaine, Marijuana, Amphetamines, Opioids and Opiates, PCP and MDMA (Ecstasy),
and any other substances required by the Medical Director.
WHO CAN BE TESTED AND WHEN?
-- If you are looking to sign a contract with a club and were not under contract with a
club on the date of the last game of the previous season and have not been tested in
the prior four months, you may be tested by the Medical Advisor.
-- If you are under contract with a club, you will be tested once between April 20 and
August 9.
-- You will be tested while you are in the Intervention Program.
-- You and your club MAY agree to testing under the NFL’s program.
HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE A SPECIMEN?
-- Four (4) hours from the time you are initially notified.
WHAT IS A POSITIVE TEST OR THE EQUIVALENT OF A POSITIVE TEST?
-- A specimen containing a prohibited substance above levels stated in the Policy.
-- Failure or refusal to appear for required testing.
-- Failure to cooperate fully with testing.
-- Providing a dilute specimen under circumstances set forth in the Policy.
-- Engaging in a deliberate effort to substitute or adulterate a specimen or a test result
or engage in prohibited doping methods.
HOW DO YOU ENTER THE INTERVENTION STAGES?
-- You can enter Stage One of the Intervention Program if you: (1) have a positive test
or the equivalent thereof; (2) exhibit behavior exhibiting physical, behavioral or
psychological signs or symptoms of misuse of substances of abuse; or (3) refer
yourself to the program.
WHAT OCCURS IN THE INTERVENTION STAGES?
-- Stage One: You are evaluated by medical personnel to determine whether you
require an appropriate clinical treatment plan or whether you should be dismissed
from the Intervention Program (only applicable to behavior admissions). If you are
not required to have a treatment plan, you will be subject to testing only.
-- Stage Two: If not dismissed in Stage One, the Medical Director will notify you of
your advancement to Stage Two. In Stage Two you must comply with your
Treatment Plan, if you have one. Also you are subject to unannounced testing up to
10 times per month. You also will be subject to further medical evaluation.
-- Stage Three: You will be advanced to Stage Three if you have two Positive Tests,
two other violations of your Treatment Plan or the Policy, or combination of both.
You must comply with your Treatment Plan and will be tested up to 10 times per
month.
-- Banishment: If you are in Stage Three and fail to comply with the terms of your
Treatment Plan in the Policy, you will be banished from the League.
HOW LONG DO YOU REMAIN IN THE INTERVENTION STAGES?
- Stage One: Generally 90 days.
- Stage Two: 24 months or 2 full seasons, whichever is shorter, from entry
into Stage Two or from a violation.
- Stage Three: The remainder of your career.
- Banishment: A minimum of one year.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF A VIOLATION IN THE INTERVENTION
STAGES?
-- Stage One: Three-seventeenths (3/17) of the amount in Paragraph 5 of your NFL
Player Contract.
-- Stage Two: 1
st
violation: 4/17 of the amount in Paragraph 5 of your NFL Player
Contract (or a 4-game suspension if you did not successfully complete Stage One).
2
nd
violation: 4-game suspension (or a 6-game suspension if you were suspended for
your first violation in Stage Two).
-- Stage Three: Banishment.
If you have any questions, talk to Dr. Lawrence Brown, the NFL Medical Advisor for the
Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse, or to your trainer, Player Development
Director or Club Physician.
-------------------------------------------------------------
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Quote:
We're not in a court of law, and in this case, I think the burden of proof lies with Gordon. As Phil said, his biggest knock was not being on the field due to substance abuse......and now he's again not on the field due to substance abuse. Sometimes the picture is as clear as it looks.
Been playing catchup reading this thread ... what a lot of nonsense.
You just said because he's an NFL player with prior - he's guilty till proven otherwise. What an agenda driven piece on BS.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
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Quote:
Quote:
We're not in a court of law, and in this case, I think the burden of proof lies with Gordon. As Phil said, his biggest knock was not being on the field due to substance abuse......and now he's again not on the field due to substance abuse. Sometimes the picture is as clear as it looks.
Been playing catchup reading this thread ... what a lot of nonsense.
You just said because he's an NFL player with prior - he's guilty till proven otherwise. What an agenda driven piece on BS.
3 prior. just for the record.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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All I know is that the more complicated rules are...the more Loop holes seem to be in them for the privileged - in this case the Pats n the Steelers
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
That is all we got other than one other fact.
LMAO...............those are the only facts, huh? So, all the things I posted, such as being kicked out of two schools, lying about it, and already being suspended in the NFL after only one freaking year are made-up BS or speculation?
Sorry tab, it's you who is speculating. You can get as huffy as you like, but the facts are this kid has a problem. Making excuses and denying the facts won't make it go away.
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Quote:
Quote:
We're not in a court of law, and in this case, I think the burden of proof lies with Gordon. As Phil said, his biggest knock was not being on the field due to substance abuse......and now he's again not on the field due to substance abuse. Sometimes the picture is as clear as it looks.
Been playing catchup reading this thread ... what a lot of nonsense.
You just said because he's an NFL player with prior - he's guilty till proven otherwise. What an agenda driven piece on BS.
Alright....just what agenda are you talking about, newb? I said the onus of proof is on him. The NFL can't give details due to their substance abuse policy, so the only way we can get the proof is from Gordon himself. Until he does that, it looks like a duck. That's not an agenda, it's the truth. I made it clear that I hope he turns out to be a productive player for us.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon suspended two games
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