He’s playing tonight (8-12). Weird.

Forever and a day?

What's 8-12?

Today's date.

Today's date.

I feel like I should have known that. Lol

LOL

We can’t know everything.

That's not true. There are several posters on here that do.

Just to carry over from the end of last thread.

Apparently only 4 women being assaulted is not a big deal. It's just 4 after all.

Allegedly. You guys continually and conveniently forget that.

Today's date and the potential suspended game range!

Deshaun Watson is actually playing for us tonight LOL what a rollercoaster

Nope - most have accepted Sue Robinson's findings. You preached that you would - I guess you lied.

Just a general thought(s)
I thought this was English only, err is that latin, who am I? Shake-e-spere?

And this is part of what makes the NFL unwatchable. Why do some people have to insert their I-800-sexual-abbuse hotline considerations into me trying to watch my team win a football game? There are millions of people who suffer millions of crimes every day,
but what does that have to do with the Browns trying to win a football game?
Soccer doesn't do that
It's about the Game it's supposed to be about the game and trying to win it.
It's the entire NFL trying to insert it's Social Issues into peoples experience of trying to watch football,
and then
You can't even watch the football, all you do is watch the commercials, and ya have to pick two other shows to watch, during the commercial breaks, because the NFL only gets around to playing football, ... eventually... after all the pomp and circumstance, and
tuh Duh (Presto) Abra Cadabra the result is always the same, the Browns lose again. So what was the point.

And, I think, these pharisetical types, use the espn network, to try and tell people how they must think, and must behave, (everybody salute the victim before you take your seats, everyone bow tot he false idol of social issues before you watch a game), and that they use Social Issues, to interfere with people who were minding their own business
and just trying to watch or enjoy a frustrating Football game,
and it's always a frustrating Football game, Because the Browns can't even field a whole team,
without controversy, or new faces.

There's an internet story floating around somewhere, linking the Browns with pursuing a 49ers @uarterback,
now, if that were to happen, it would mean that the plan at @uarterback
has now changed about 6 times since the end of last season, and or only has any staying power to last 8 weeks, before they move on to another New Plan at @uarterback.

( Stop pretending Nick Harris is a seasoned starter, he's barely proven anything)

First question....What does "in perpetuum et unum diem" mean (in English)..?

Google.com

You continually forget that Watson was found to commit 3 separate violations of the PCP against each of the women and that makes the number 12.
The Judge didn't use the word allegedly either.
Here's some more numbers for you, Judge Robinson stated clearly in her report, and it is now a fact of public record, that Watson worked with more than 60 massage therapists during the time period and that 24 of those 60 plus therapists were suing Watson for damages and that all of the 24 women had similar allegations.
Of those 24 women, the NFL Investigators were only able to interview 12 of them. Of those 12, the NFL relied for its conclusions on the testimony of 4 of the therapists as well as interviews of some 37 other third parties and substantial documentary evidence.

The ruling is based on the 4 cases presented which resulted in 12 PCP violations but it's pretty clear that Judge Robinson not only recognized the additional women victims but concluded that they too suffered the same fate as the 4 that was presented. There would be no reason for her to even mention the other 20 women if it wasn't important to the case.

perpetuum in Latin means perpetual....always moving or something similar.

diem is obviously day.

That is why I posted "Forever and a day" right away. It's probably a loose translation.

j/c:

We read a lot about Judge Robinson's terms like predatory and egregious on here and in the media, but somehow her words of how she justified the length of the suspension are being ignored. Check them out again and tell me that she isn't calling the NFL out and saying what they are trying to do is wrong.




"While it may be entirely appropriate to more severely discipline players for non-violent sexual conduct, I do not believe it is appropriate to do so without notice of the extraordinary change this position portends for the NFL and its players,"


“Here, the NFL is attempting to impose a more dramatic shift in its culture without the benefit of fair notice to - and consistency of consequence for - those in the NFL subject to the Policy.”

Come on mgh888, that was when it looked like RDW would get off easy. But it didn't go Vers' way so he changed it all up and came back after it from a new direction. It's all on us Baker Fans, on posters whose posts don't align with his, on the dirty process, dirty NFL Owners, Dirty Cops, Dirty Lawyers, etc. ... It's on everybody EXCEPT RDW that he is being punished and thereby ruining Vers' FQB dream boy's rep. I'm so over it. Snoozers'-ville. Heck, I don't even have to show up to remind him that the R in RDW stands for RAPEY. A very large portion of the fanbase and a larger portion of the country is doing that in real-time every day.

And I'm sorry to all Brown's fans if the moral convictions of some fans are 'ruining' your board time, we get it, but we also get how bad what he did was and don't want to see it happen again here. I'm sure some get that, some won't, and at least one couldn't care less what we think.

Too bad the union that represents Watson did a bad job and allowed the NFL the power to appeal to itself.

Gee, yet another couple of posts that attack the character of one who doesn't agree w/them while making things up yet again.

I have clearly stated that I have accepted Judge Robinson's decision about the punishment for violating the Personal Conduct Policy.

When I used the word "allegedly," I am talking that a man can't be actually convicted outside a court of law. The NFL is not a court of law. So again, I accept Judge Robinson's decision when it comes to her ruling. But, in regards to an actual legal proceeding, innocence and guilt are determined by the actual legal system, thus all claims of him being a predator are allegations. He has not been charged w/a crime or convicted of a crime in our legal system.

Get your last words in. Hopefully, others will see this for what it is.

There is truth to that, but the new system is a bit better than the previous one. The next agreement will be amended yet again and the NFLPA will ask for things to evolve and become more equitable.

Do you think spamming a message board will prevent Watson from doing something like this again or prevent the front office from trading someone with Watson like issues?

OCD -

I can live with the posters and fans that simply state they don't care. I could live with the 6 game suspension as it was because that was the framework.

With that said - even though the burden of proof was less than a criminal court and probably more akin to civil court - the verdict by Sue Robinson was very forthright about Watson's guilt and actions, his lies and lack of remorse. At this point overwhelmingly Watson is most probably guilty by ANY measure. Denying that, making excuses, making this about race and pointing fingers at the owners is all deflection and enablement. Frankly it's sickening. I see the latest post trying to deflect from the guilty verdict and the harsh words to describe Watson's actual actions into the framework and poorly written agreement.

As I said - I would have accepted the weak suspension coupled with Robinson's explanation that it was the maximum suspension dictated by the framework. I'm not going to argue that what Goodell is doing is right or justified.

But I won't accept sickos trying to make out that somehow there is an equal chance of Watson's guilt/innocence. And while rape and violent sexual assault would make this worse .... it was never about violence and rape. It was about sexual assault and using coercion, power, influence and predatory pattern that escalated.

I also won't accept that anyone thinks this wasn't all too predictable when the Browns made the trade. I said before any hearings I expected a minimum of a 10 game suspension. I think 12 is more likely now. Who knows? And again I am not wanting that - I just think the multi-billion dollar business that is the NFL - that really only cares about revenue and optics was ALWAYS going to impse a harsh penalty in order to appease casual fans. And it matters not one tiny bit whether fans are educated or not. Whether they read Robinsons ruling or know that it's available .... it was predictable. Period.

Just my opinion ... of course.

More double talk to deflect from not accepting that the Watson has been found guilty of the actions he was accused of. What e is most definitely more probably guilty of based on an experienced judge and the evidence presented. Cherry picking of what to accept and not accept - wholly different than before the ruling. Truly nauseating.

"to evolve and become more e@uitable"
I get it, it's like that old commercial that said all choices are no the same, as in, sure you have a choice, what color desk do you want,
Olive Green? or Gun Metal Gray" it's not much of a choice. "more e@uitable" can mean as long as everyone is getting vv on, then at least 'everyone' is getting vv on. They are still going to get (treated very poorly/unfairly), but; in the future,
it won't just be the practice s@uad group that is getting (treated very poorly/unfairly,) but the league stars are also getting (the same),
so? more e@uitable. Everyone gets .. on
( As far as football is concerned, I don't care about anything except that the Browns win, and that they win more excessively than they already would have)
( And trying to pass off what we know isn't good, as acceptable, is an insult to ones' intelligience, if they have any, and an insult to how much they care, if they care at all.)

Just ask them

DeShaun Watson: Vidi, Vici, Veni.

That’s a nice first step.

Sorry for what though?

Just guessing. Making some of them uncomfortable????


I am not going to say what was going down w/all of this, but it's not really that hard to figure out.

That's not enough for you? He doesn't owe you an apology. He doesn't owe the public a single thing.

This is why I said I would retire on pure principle.

I don’t care if he apologizes or not. I just think it’s weird to apologize when he’s said all along he didn’t do anything wrong.

First of all..........Rish, cfrs has been uncomfortable w/the Watson signing from the get-go, but he doesn't spam the board w/his displeasure. I understand his trepidation. I think he has been fair. He doesn't attack others for having a different opinion.

cfrs: I think he might believe he didn't do anything wrong, but understands where a couple of women might have felt uncomfortable and issuing an apology is a step towards closure.

Footnote: I still can't believe more people aren't figuring out what went down.

I love cfrs, and we communicate frequently privately. Doesn't mean we can't disagree.

Cool. I wasn't getting on you and I apologize if it came across that way.

Not at all, and considering I'm not posting much at all in PF, I'd like to know your definition of spamming. I mean I see you and vers post about 10-20 posts for one of mine. Are you spamming too? Or are my posts spam because YOU AND VERS don't like them? I'm talking about an important topic in Browns football, hell I'd call it a historic topic, am I not allowed to have my own view or opinion on that? You surprise me with this.

Of course you are allowed to have your own take. However, it was you and 888 who went on the attack when I made a post that didn't have a thing to do w/either of you. Perhaps others should be permitted to voice their thoughts w/out you guys attacking us?

You can post whatever you want as long as you are not referring to me, I rarely go at you unprovoked and you know it or should see it by now. Hell, we actually agree on way more than we disagree in PF. Watson is really the only thing I can think of off the top of my head. That other forum is a different beast, and yes I can be aggressive in there.

FYI: I only responded to you AFTER you called me out.

I am so sick of these stupid childish games in this forum.

Different football opinions are great, but the constant personalty crap sucks!

I have no problem with anything you post as long as it's not attacking me or what I believe in general. You have every right to your opinions on players, the team, the fo, everything but what other posters post IMO. Same for me, same for everyone. But unless you are purp or a ref, nobody is telling me what I can or can't post or talk about. I'm sure you feel the same. And don't think for a second I like this crap constantly because I don't either. Don't mistake my takes or posts for others who are actually attacking you on the regular. I might have the same view as some of them, but I don't come in here looking to argue. But when I feel attacked, I answer. That's all this is.

gimme baker back. We messed this thing up bad...We are gonna carousel qbs again.

Week 1 Preseason Recap ESPN

Browns: Quarterback Deshaun Watson's first appearance since the 2020 season was a rough one. Playing the entire first quarter, Watson completed just 1 of 5 passes for seven yards. With him at QB, the offense failed to generate a single first down. To make things worse, starting center Nick Harris had to be carted off the field after the second snap due to a knee injury. What happened before kickoff, however, overshadowed anything Watson did on the field. For the first time, he apologized to the women who have accused him of inappropriate sexual misconduct during massage sessions, saying on the Browns' pregame show that he was "truly sorry" to the women he had impacted. Meanwhile, Watson and the Browns continue to wait on whether appeals officer Peter C. Harvey will extend Watson's six-game suspension. -- Jake Trotter

I guess the fans in Jacksonville missed the memo that they are not supposed to know or care about the Watson situation. Though there were no formal protests found outside the stadium, the AP has reported that several cars could be seen sporting unsavory messages ripping the embattled quarterback. Deshaun Watson apologized before his preseason debut with the Cleveland Browns and then got an earful from opposing fans. Inside, Watson jogged into TIAA Bank Field with a security guard at his side. Jacksonville fans roundly booed Watson during his 3 series of work. Fans in one end zone could be heard chanting vulgarities at Watson during his first drive.

What happened before kickoff, however, overshadowed anything Watson did on the field. Much like the attempt by Watson's team to sway sentiment with the settlement of 3 additional cases the day before the initial hearings with Judge Robinson, for the first time, Watson apologized to the women who have accused him of inappropriate sexual misconduct during massage sessions, saying on the Browns' pregame show that he was "truly sorry" to the women he had impacted. Watson, who has denied any wrongdoing while settling 23 of 24 civil lawsuits, is still facing league discipline. The NFL is appealing independent arbiter Sue L. Robinson’s six-game suspension. The retired federal judge concluded Watson violated the league’s personal conduct policy with “egregious” and “predatory” behavior. As part of her ruling, Robinson noted Watson’s total lack of remorse.

Potentially facing a year-long suspension, Watson publicly expressed remorse and contrition for the first time since he was accused of sexually harassing or assaulting the 24 women during therapy sessions in 2020 and 2021. The unexpected press conference to express remorse and contrition (much like the previous settlement cases) takes place in the final hours as Watson and the Browns continue to wait on whether appeals officer Peter C. Harvey will extend Watson's six-game suspension. Peter C. Harvey, a former New Jersey attorney general, was appointed by commissioner Roger Goodell to hear the appeal.

Whether this sudden change of heart by Watson in these final hours will have any effect on Harvey's decision remains to be seen.

The 24-13 victory at Jacksonville (0-2) was overshadowed by the Watson saga and Harris injury. The team declined to make Watson available after the game.

See what I mean, meant
when I said, the Pharisee type society wants to ruin any love/like/or appreciation of the game of football by having Social Issues Overshadow, (their word, Overshadow)
Social Issues Overshadow the game, and they use ESPN to attempt to demand you bow to the demand that you think their way.

Social issues instead of football.
and ESPN as the Tool to tell you what to think and say, and better fall in step or you may be marginalized -and or austricized.
^ it's right there.

Not to minimize anything, but several cars out of thousands isn't exactly a groundswell.

People want something to do. ( they'll make a sign, do up their car, make a day of it, it's fun it passes the time, ya feel like important, sent a message made a difference. Stood for a cause. )
I said into a mirror, pfew, realizing that's just like all my wasted purpose on this message board pfff, whew my bleak existence.. I3? I3,000 posts? whew. gosh, what if pssshhh wow and since I996.

‘Truly sorry”

This sorts of rigged PR stunts without some authenticity and good timing just look a little bit forced and fake. Context is everything when expressing honest emotions.

Why is it so hard to do things the right way and who’s his lousy advisers?
Honestly. I mean with a contract worth $230m he should afford to buy something else then incompetent amateurs...

j/c

[1] Whenever Watson plays for the Browns I think we can expect a part of any teams fanbase that we play to demonstrate. Some of it will be genuine from people who think it matters. Some of it will be from fans that think that abusing Watson and shouting about his situation will somehow impact or district him.

[2] I am not buying the "apology" - too little, too late, and forced by his guilty ruling by Sue Robinson. He had opportunities to say something similar before - because in no way does he take ownership of his actions - but instead he chose a different route and wording to apologize to many people but not the women he acted egregiously towards. I do agree with whoever wrote it above - whoever is advising Watson needs replaced.

[3] It was Watson's first game in a very long time. I could care less about 1-5 and how he looked. I believe when he eventually plays regular football he will be very good. If he sits for more than 10 games this year - I still say it was a bad trade unless he is literally a top 3 QB in the NFL come 2023/2024.

he is guilty.

proof?

He apologized for women getting upset about what they think he did rather than what he actually did. He admitted putting himself in bad situations where it could be spun the way it has. If he hadn't put himself in those situations, it couldn't have blown up the way it has. I think he was purposefully vague, so people could read into it what they would without really admitting anything that could be used in court. Plus, I think the NFL made it a condition of a settlement. That's not to say that he wasn't remorseful without the NFL, but feeling and expressing those feelings are two different animals.

IMHO, this is a joke of a move in an attempt to get a lighter suspension with a lessor fine. I don't buy a guy whose claimed total innocence for almost two years even after having a Judge state that from the evidence he was a predator who has displayed egregious behavior toward 24 or more women. The timing stinks, he was purposefully vague, and it gives the appearance of doing something to appease the NFL and Mr. Harvey. If this was a condition of settlement, it stinks to high heaven. Watson, the Browns, and the NFL/NFLPA must think we all just fell off the turnip truck to buy into this crap show.

Deshuan says he's sorry, whole world be like:

Someone posted a comparison to the Watson situation and dealing with your kids. I think this "apology" after weeks and weeks and prior "non apologies" ... I think this could be viewed in a similar light. It is pretty much like a kid, after a long time out and being asked to apologize, saying the words while their tone and body language communicates a completely different message. Bull nailed it with his breakdown. jmo

This entire thing has become a three ring circus. Now we even have people making excuses and trying to minimize his apology. And anyone can see that he was advised to make such an apology before Harvey ruled on his case to make him look better. Some of us told people on this board what it would look like any time the Browns played away games. And hell, this was just a preseason game. They're BS, "He was apologizing about 'making them uncomfortable'" crap is beyond a reach of epic proportions.

The crap trail watson has left in his wake stinks from Cleveland to Houston all the way up to the league office. And all his supporters can do is make excuses like "not fair" when this is the exact process that was contractually agreed to by both the league and the NFLPA. And then there's the classic, "The league is picking on the Browns" routine. And then there's the "watson has professed his innocence" even after Judge Robinson found him to be a predator, acted egregiously and a liar. Somewhere in the dark Barnum and Bailey must be their leaders. Because it's obvious when watson was signed by the Browns, the circus came to town.

...the circus left?

I don't think we'll ever get rid of it, irrespective of Watson, so it's more a matter of dealing with it. It's the world we live in. Everything gets blown out of proportion and/or distorted by the media/masses. Or just gets made up or improperly attributed like the majority of your posts.

If you get tons of crap thrown at you for years, there's going to be a smell. Not necessarily from the person getting thrown at, but from the stuff getting thrown. You seem to revel in the stench.

There's a difference in recognizing the stench than choosing to revel in it. This is unlike anything associated with this team than ever before. Claiming reality somehow "gets made up or improperly attributed" is really nothing more than yet another attempt to deflect and place blame on everyone who had nothing to do with watson's actions. Which is typical and does not come unexpectedly.

This crap wasn't thrown at the Browns. It was invited and brought here with a 230 million dollar guaranteed contract.

OH God NO!!!! Say it ain't so!

Too little...too late...

IMO, Those advising Watson...have failed to give him timely advise.

Too late settling the cases and too late apologizing for his conduct during massage sessions.

It's sad, but Watson hired a lawyer that is/was more concerned about his law firm's reputation than he was about Watson.

I think he should have gone with Dak's lawyer.

Or maybe his lawyer knows what he is doing....geesh

rish...Did Daks lawyer do his job? Was Dak found NOT GUILTY of the DUI charge?

I have the phone number for Dak's lawyer if you want it...

Dude..........LOL

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=f97403ea84a04e17aca95ac8721a2075

Who cares

I know the following will tick someone off....

Baker Mayfield started for the Panthers and played one series in the team's 23-21 victory against the Washington Commanders on Saturday at FedEx Field. In his first preseason game, Mayfield completed 4 of 7 passes for 45 yards, leading a 54-yard, 13-play drive play that ended with a 41-yard Zane Gonzalez field goal.

I also know that it doesn't mean a thing... Just saying.

As has been obvious from the very start, people act as though only 1 out of 32 matters.

There you go again, starting crap where there is none. I was laughing at the "several cars" quote. Have you picked another team to root for yet?

English has obviously avoided you. The word "fan" is short for "fanatic". My support for the Browns no longer reaches the level of fanatic. I put that in the most terms I can. Hopefully breaking it down in the most simple terms and reading it slower may help those of you that are having trouble grasping the concept. There have been others whose description of how they now feel closly resemble my sentiments. They just used different words in their descriptions. But you just keep doing you.

This might actually unite the team.

I was thinking this too. NFL and the opponent fans better be careful because you never know what galvanizes a locker room and then when Watson returns it could work in our favor

I know it sounds corny as can be, but finding something to rally around and creating an us against the world is a very real things form football teams.

No doubt about it

Too little too late!

This is who Watson is... he was like this in Houston... I don't think he's looking for kids with cancer to sign autographs for to improve his rep... I think that's just him being him...

if you want to say his 'apology' was too little too late, I'd agree there...

You don't think the statement was made because Watson waited until before the game to make a public apology? It was one of the biggest stories of the offseason.

The difficult part when discussing on social media and in a forum like this is to separate a players talent, ability and performance with the same persons bad character and moral short comings. Deshaun Watson is from what we see probably a complex personality. Rich Eisen has multiple times praised Watson for his engagements
in the local community and how well he handle himself among supporters and in social arrangements. On the other hand we have these 24 women and their stories, we have the article from NYT and off course the conclusions from judge Robinson. With so much information most of us can take whatever perspective we want to justify our position regarding how we want to support this player.

I hope I'm strong enough to separate my judgments of him as a player with my stance on him regarding his wrong doings with all these women.

For me it's important that a player who represent my favorite team has some sort of moral standards. I will always accepts that young people do mistakes but when these mistakes happens over and over again over period of time and the player doesn't show remorse or accountability then I have to draw a line to not be a hypocrite. i can't have certain standard in my private life, among friends and co workers and another standard when supporting my favorite team.

DSW has a long way to go if he want's my full support as a Cleveland Brown player. Questionable PR stunts like his latest interview before the first pre season game doesn't help his case from my perspective. On the other hand when I see him taking time with sick children then my heart melts.

Time and good actions will be his best friend to come back, at least for me.

j/c:

IMO the reaction to DW performance in the first pre-season game is: an overreaction.

But that is par for the course. I had to wait till the next day to watch the Jags game. Just for grins I looked at how people on the Board reacted as the game was being played.

Hysterical.

I've stated his performance is a non issue. I've missed any heat that's been pointed his way though. Everything I've read pointed out two dropped passes and the lengthy absence.

Browns fans overacting to their teams QB play and others defending it? Similar to 85% of the years we've had since 99, no?

And every other fan base.

I must have missed that. I separate my feelings of off the field DW and on the field DW. My opinion on the what I saw thread was that Scwartz dropped two of those passes and it should have been expected that watson would have some rust. Where was all of this overreaction at on the board?

Nothing by anyone specific just all kinds of comments.

I have never looked at the Board when the game is on. Only the next day with "post game" comments etc.

It was things like fire KS. DW looks terrible. I tuned out.

I was just there to look at the game comments nothing else.

Oh the game day threads are hilarious and sad at the same time. So much emotion and testosterone flowing in the same direction all at once.

In the very beginning, I've been on one of these Dawgtalk named forums since 1999, I would read those. Not during a game because I was too focused on watching the game, but afterwords. And dear God it was like reading some crazy, deranged writers just before they were committed. I now avoid them like the plague.

I absolutely adore game day threads for all sports. If fans start talking crap about a player odds are he is about the score or win the game and they will all have been his biggest supporters.

j/c





Interesting.

Only it really can't.

Report: Deshaun Watson met with David Culley, refuses to play for Texans

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...david-culley-refuses-to-play-for-texans/

Report: Deshaun Watson told David Culley he doesn't want to play for the Texans

https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/25/deshaun-watson-told-david-culley-doesnt-play-texans/

I wasn't going to go find links, but that was what I immediately wondered.... How the heck does one justify Choosing to Not Play as "Suspension Time Served"?

Last season was all his own choice and volition, and by all accounts, completely unrelated to these cases, but instead had to do with how he felt about the Texans as an organization. I absolutely cannot see how it could possibly be counted without a HEAVY dose of revisionist history and blinders for everyone.

He is not saying those games would be counted, but the league can credibly argue.

I understand how and why because I have heard other analysts that I respect more than Florio talk about the same thing. The credible argument is that Watson would have been traded last year during the season had the allegations of sexual misconduct not been out there. It is noteworthy that there was no trade talk for Watson going on until after the Grand Jury decided not to indict him. Thus, w/out the charges of sexual misconduct, Watson would have been traded last year. Taking away his salary from that season makes some sense of a way to find some common ground and gain some closure.

With that said, I know a lot of people won't accept that because they are hungry to see him punished.

Your green highlighted statement: Why was I under the impression DW WAS paid for last year? Is that incorrect?

First of all, Watson stepped away before any of this was an issue. Second, all Watson had to do was settle those suits like he eventually did a year and a half later. Just because Watson's ego got in the way and his - not the NFL's - misconduct off the field combined with his disdain for the Texans caused him to not be traded does not equal a NFL suspension. He sure didn't have any issues cashing those checks and playing predator with the massage ladies. Maybe the NFL should take responsibility for that too! Just like Stephen A Smith said today, were not talking about a single or even a double incident. We're talking about 60 plus women of which 24 have filled civil suits against Watson for alleged sexual misconduct. Smith said he absolutely should be suspended for the season for his actions off the field. I agree......

Watson was paid and he skipped to the bank each pay period to cash those checks and be a predator while his peers suffered on the field without him.

Because he could forfeit his game checks for every game missed last season. I believe it is around 10 million dollars he made to set out.

Are you capable of making a post w/out twisting my words and arguing? I was answering a question by paraphrasing others. Why does everything have to be an argument? State your opinion and move on. I never even came close to saying he anything about when he stepped away. What I repeated from others that he would have been traded last year if not for the allegations.

Okay, I have been trying really hard to not reply to you, but I had to get that off my chest. Get another shot or three in, but I won't respond. All I know is I can't wait until the refs move the legal talk to the proper forum.

Did I use your name or direct it to you? You paraphrased an opinion and I responded to that opinion. Also, to get the facts straight - the holdup on the Watson trade at the time was the huge compensation the Texans wanted in return. Numerous teams reached out but report after report talked about the compensation requested - not his off the field issues. Finally, when the Dolphins decided they might be interested in meeting the demand, they put the stipulation on it that the suits were settled. Watson's ego wouldn't let him do that, so the trade died in the backroom - never made it to the table actually.

Bottomline, Watson wasn't traded because the cost was way too high and his ego got in the way (not to mention his no trade clause which everyone seems to forget) - period! You, my friend, took that as a shot at yourself, read the post - it is not.

Stephen A Smith on Watson's apology, NFL investigations, and more.

In response to Stephen A Smith .... what a joke of a take. Possibly the worst I have ever seen out of his mouth.

There is still a case outstanding against Watson.... do Lawyers be like - "If you have over 20 claims against you - say NOTHING ... but when it's only 1 claim you can go admit to the world you are a sexual predator" ..... No.

Fact is, the apology wasn't an apology. Someone (Bull?) already broke that down for anyone that wasn't actually paying attention to what DW said.

Purp, here is an article from last year that talks a little bit about the implications of possible criminal charges. What some analysts are saying about not playing last year due to the possible criminal cases influenced the trade market, especially given the fact that multiple teams went after him hard once the GJ chose not to indict him.



[quote]Inside story of why the Houston Texans didn't trade quarterback Deshaun Watson, what's next
Nov 3, 2021
Sarah Barshop
ESPN Staff Writer

HOUSTON -- A day after the NFL trade deadline, with quarterback Deshaun Watson still on the Houston Texans roster, general manager Nick Caserio said the situation hasn't been a distraction in the building.

But on Wednesday morning, much of Caserio's 27-minute news conference was taken up by questions about Watson's future with the franchise, trade discussions with the Miami Dolphins that fizzled out and the "serious" legal situation that Watson is in.


"I don't really want to comment on something that is out of my control," Caserio said when asked whether he believed Watson's legal situation made a trade more difficult to complete. "So, again, we just take it one step at a time and take the information as it comes and try to make good decisions the best we can. In the end, it wasn't a trade that came to fruition."

The Texans now cannot trade Watson until the start of the new league year on March 16, 2022, but there are several complicating factors that could prevent a trade from being completed.

On March 16, 2021, one day before the start of the 2021 NFL year, the first of 23 lawsuits was filed against Watson accusing him of sexual assault and inappropriate behavior during massage sessions. There are currently 22 active lawsuits as one was dropped after a judge ruled in April that plaintiffs needed to amend their petitions to disclose their names.

Two months before the first lawsuit was filed -- and less than six months after Watson signed a four-year, $156 million contract extension that would keep him in Houston through the 2025 season -- the quarterback asked for a trade. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Watson was unhappy his input wasn't considered in the hiring of Caserio.




Caserio and coach David Culley insisted in their news conferences before the lawsuits against Watson were filed that the former first-round pick out of Clemson would not be traded. However, that discussion shifted after the allegations against Watson came to light.

Once Caserio began having conversations about the possibility of trading Watson, the general manager made it clear he would move on from the quarterback only for the right offer, sources told ESPN. Schefter reported in September that Caserio was looking for a package of six players and draft picks from teams interested in acquiring Watson.

There were a handful of teams interested in the weeks after Watson's desire to be traded became public, including the Dolphins, Denver Broncos, Carolina Panthers, San Francisco 49ers, Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Football Team, sources told ESPN. But once teams became aware of the lawsuits filed against Watson, several declined to pursue the trade further.

In the two weeks before Tuesday's trade deadline, there were reports out of Houston that a deal with the Dolphins was close. But on Wednesday morning, Miami general manager Chris Grier called "90%" of the rumors false.

"We never got to a point where anything was going to be realistic in terms of happening," Grier said. "It was still us just doing our due diligence, just talking through things. We never got to a point where anything was that close to happening."

While the Dolphins were interested in Watson, owner Stephen Ross wasn't comfortable going forward with it, Schefter reported Tuesday. On Tuesday night, Tony Buzbee, the attorney for the 22 plaintiffs, told Fox 26 in Houston there was a "pretty tough effort to try to settle" the lawsuits before the trade deadline.

​​According to Schefter, Texans chairman and CEO Cal McNair privately told people he wanted the team to separate from Watson before the trade deadline but ultimately left the decision up to Caserio.

Grier said Wednesday that he didn't want to get into the specifics of trade offers with other teams, but a team source told ESPN the Dolphins weren't willing to guarantee all three first-round draft picks Houston wanted the package for Watson to be built around.

A no-trade clause in Watson's contract extension, signed in September 2020, limited Caserio while looking for a trade partner. In fact, Watson would waive his no-trade clause only for the Dolphins, a source told ESPN. The Texans and Panthers did not get very far in trade talks, a source said, because Watson had not agreed to be traded to Carolina.



Last week, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told reporters the league didn't have enough information about the lawsuits to make a decision on potential discipline for Watson. The information it did have wasn't enough to place the quarterback on the commissioner's exempt list.

If Watson is put on the list, he would be paid -- as he is now -- but not allowed to practice or play. Because Goodell didn't put Watson on the exempt list, the Texans are carrying him on their 53-man roster and making him a healthy scratch on game day. Watson gets a $620,000 game check each week even though he is deactivated.

If the Texans trade Watson before June 1, Houston would take on $16.2 million in dead money on their 2022 salary cap. If the trade happens after June 1, there would be $5.4 million of dead money against the cap in 2022 and $10.8 million the next year.

Even before Watson was accused of sexual assault and inappropriate behavior, it was going to be a challenging task to trade the 25-year-old franchise quarterback because of his contract. Along with the dead money the Texans would have to eat because of the guaranteed money and the $27 million signing bonus, acquiring Watson would have the potential to decimate an interested team's draft capital and pool of young talent, considering what Houston would have wanted in return.

What's next?
If the civil cases were to go to trial, the earliest that could begin is in early May. According to the agreed-to case docket, a status conference would be set for May 2, 2022, and the court would set a trial date.


Even if Watson and the 22 women were able to settle the lawsuits, Watson could still face criminal charges. Ten women have filed complaints with Houston police against Watson, his attorney Rusty Hardin told ESPN's John Barr in July. According to Hardin, eight of them are among the women who have filed suits against Watson; two have not sued the quarterback.

Of course, if there are criminal charges filed against Watson, the Texans won't receive the value Caserio was determined to get. But given Houston's insistence on not accepting a conditional pick, that's clearly a risk the front office is willing to take.

Although a lot will depend on whether there are criminal charges and/or the lawsuits are settled, there is a huge difference in keeping Watson on the roster in 2022 if a trade is not made. In 2021, the Texans are paying Watson a base salary of $10.54 million. In 2022, they would be paying him $35 million.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...ns-trade-quarterback-deshaun-watson-next[/quote]

Agreed, however my point is this is commonplace for our fans so acting like it is an issue just because of Watson is..an overreaction.

So, he WAS paid in full last year, and he sat out by his own choice?

How would that translate into "he's already missed a year?"

Bottom line: he didn't play because HE CHOSE NOT TO PLAY.

I get that all sorts of people are searching for angles on that to try to create a scenario where him not playing was actually punishment beyond his own choosing, but it isn't. It's all paper tigers and smoke & mirror reasoning.
The "logic" being applied is just absurd.

It doesn't unless you're looking for some angle to create a punishment that didn't happen. That's just as foolish as saying if he returned last year's wages as his fine then that could be counted as part of his suspension too. It's all absurd, smoke and mirrors, and just another attempt at somehow saying Watson has been punished when he hasn't.

In 2021, the Texans paid Watson a base salary of $10.54 million. In 2022, they would be paying him $35 million.

I just wanted confirmation that what I thought was true, was in fact, true.

He was not suspended last year, he voluntarily sat it out.

He lost no compensation last year (other than perhaps performance perks). So, there is NO WAY anyone can see he was punished last year.

I just want the NFL to render a decision.

It’s gotta happen within the 12 days following the appeal right? If it doesn’t it becomes just the 6 games.

So, when is the deadline? End of the week?

To take it a step further:

In September 2020, Watson signed a contract extension with the Texans. The total value of the deal was $177.54 million with nearly $111 million in guarantees, trailing only quarterback Patrick Mahomes' 12-year deal with the Kansas City Chiefs as the largest in NFL history at the time.

Watson received a signing bonus of 27M in 2020 along with a roster bonus of 1.177M and a base salary of 1.177M bringing his total in 2020 to 29.354M.

The $40 million-per-year average in new money made Watson the second-highest paid player in NFL history, behind Patrick Mahomes, who signed a decade-long deal worth upwards of $500 million earlier that offseason.

Less than six months after Watson signed a four-year, $177.54 million contract extension that would keep him in Houston through the 2025 season -- the quarterback demanded to be traded. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Watson was unhappy his input wasn't considered in the hiring of Caserio.

On March 16, 2021, one day before the start of the 2021 NFL year and more than 2-months after Watson demanded to be traded, the first of 23 lawsuits was filed against Watson accusing him of sexual assault and inappropriate behavior during massage sessions.

Even before Watson was accused of sexual assault and inappropriate behavior, it was going to be a challenging task to trade the 25-year-old franchise quarterback because of his contract. Along with the dead money the Texans would have to eat because of the guaranteed money and the $27 million signing bonus, acquiring Watson would have the potential to decimate an interested team's draft capital and pool of young talent, considering what Houston would have wanted in return.

Watson decided to sit out the 2021 campaign because his demands were not met. The Texans paid Watson's base salary of 10.54M as was listed as a healthy scratch each week of the season.

The next issue was what to do in 2022. Watson's base salary was scheduled to be over 35M in 2022. Thus, the ultimate trade to the Browns.

Watson only honored less than six months on his last mega deal, will Watson honor his Browns deal?

WOW! Thank the Lord we were there to help DeShaun and the Texans out!! Very good hearted on our part. How can anyone dislike us?

DW accusing the Texans ownership of being racist probably didn't help much either.

j/c:

As I said earlier, it was a given that there would be people who would not accept the logic of argument being made by multiple sources. And it is no surprise which guys shot that logic down. It's the same guys who convicted Watson from the get-go.

From what I'm hearing, about half the fanbase has an issue with him. Take that for what it's worth. Guess we'll see if winning really does fix everything whenever he gets to play.

I don't know the exact numbers, but I don't have a problem w/those who are uncomfortable w/Watson. It's a personal choice that I respect.

I was talking about how I knew certain posters would defy the logic of the claim made by multiple analysts. Everyone understands that he chose to not play for the Texans last year. Everyone knows he got paid. No one is disputing that. However, he would have definitely been traded last year had the threat of possible criminal charges not been in the mix. Denying that is foolhardy. Furthermore, if he pays a fine that is equal to or close to last year's salary, it is not illogical to see how that is punishment.

What I find odd is that we have posters actively campaigning for the Browns to be punished on a Browns fan site. That's crazy. Not rooting for the team is one thing. Actively campaigning for them to be punished is another. I could see posting that way if you were on a neutral site or another team's site, but calling out fans of the Browns for rooting for the Browns is crazy. Hell, I get complaining about a player, a coach, FO personnel, the owner, etc. But to actually champion the cause of something that will hurt the Browns and their fan base seems cruel. Not sure what joy people have in making fans of a team miserable by constantly wishing will ill on the team.

I will call you out on this comment. When you spin things like this to support your narrative is when people end up lashing out at you. IMHO, no one is campaigning for the Browns to be punished. Unfortunately, when you jump on board with a predator there's going to be some collateral damage. What you consider championing a cause of something that will hurt the Browns and their fan base as being cruel couldn't be further from the truth. To paraphrase what your implying is that any person who is demanding Watson receive the maximum punishment from the NFL for the most predatory egregious behavior in the history of the NFL is wishing ill will on the team. So, unless this 50% of the fan base doesn't bury their heads in the sand and join the campaign of undying support for the decision to bring Watson to the team in the name of winning, we certainly can't be a part of the fan base that's supporting the Browns.

Let's correct your first claim, it is only an assumption that Watson would have been definitely traded had the threat of criminal charges not been in the mix. There was also the issue with dead cap money, compensation for the trade, and Watson's no-trade clause. In fact, once Caserio began having conversations about the possibility of trading Watson, the general manager made it clear he would move on from the quarterback only for the right offer, sources told ESPN. Schefter reported in September that Caserio was looking for a package of six players and multiple draft picks from teams interested in acquiring Watson.

If you make yourself the champion as to who is or is not a Brown fan you have overstepped your position in this forum. I, and many others on this forum, are disgusted by the fact that the NFL has investigated and determined that the person who is to be the face of the Browns franchise is the most prolific predator in the history of the NFL. At a minimum, the NFL has determined that at various levels Watson sexually assaulted, portrayed misconduct or harassed 24 different women. He lied at the hearing and has shown zero remorse for the way he treated these women. With 12 violations of the NFL PCP, 4 women with 3 violation's each, Watson has committed 1000% more PCP violations than any other player in the history of the NFL - bar none.

You are the only person on this forum that has continually called out fan loyalty of any person who doesn't agree with your optics on the situation. Hell, you're doing it again with this post in its entirety. Last time I checked, the Browns didn't appoint you as the champion as to who is or is not a Browns Fan. I also think it's a little pompous of you to question a person's team loyalty after you just spent the last 4-years proudly carrying the anti-QB flag against the Browns. The difference here is Watson has mistreated multiple women at a level never seen in the NFL as determined by the NFL investigation and this part of the fan base feels he should be held to the highest level of accountability and his ability to throw a damn football shouldn't have anything to do with loyalty, fandom, or Cleveland Browns support. I won't, but I could take the same stance against you for having joy in making fans miserable by constantly wishing ill will and belittling their support of the team because they are disgusted at Watson's egregious behavior. For women everywhere, I have taken the stand that he should be held accountable at the highest level for his predatory actions, and it has nothing to do with my fan loyalty to the Browns, contrary to your faulty judgement of 50% of the fanbase.

So, in your world -- people are allowed to be "uncomfortable", just not so much so that they say anything negative about Deshaun on a browns message board? That would be "actively campaigning" for the Browns to be punished and conduct unworthy of a fan?

You know what's crazy bro? That everything you throw out as your opinion is somehow a benchmark as to whether anyone else should be judged as a "true fan".

And in this case, I don't really care which other "analysts" are pimping the idea, it is illogical.

Saying Deshaun should get "credit for time served because those meddling women prevented him from being traded" is BLAMING THE WOMEN.

If you really think the NFL is about to do a 180... after public pressure, after Sue Robinson's words and description of his actions, after "unprecedented" behavior... and blame the women? You are truly living in a world of make-believe.

You can simply refer to those women as "the allegations", but that's not going to make this fly. It's like standing in court and trying to convince the judge the car crash would have never happened, if not for your excessive speed, and blame the speedometer. It's a whack take, and I don't think you need a certain level of Browns fandom to call it what it is.

You are misinterpreting my intent. That's okay.

If you are misrepresenting the posters intent - I'd say it's a lot like when someone starts off a sentence with "I'm not racist, but ...." you know the next statement is going to be racially charged/stereotyping or just flat out racist. If you call them on it they'll tell you that they qualified it .... We're into semantics. Semantics like when Watson seems to apologize to the women but he really doesn't when you look at what he actually says. It's like Vers claiming he accepts Sue Robinson's ruling but in reality, he only accepts the 6 game suspension because that's the part he likes.

Can't wait for the drama to be over. Can't wait for the news cycle to move on and stop talking about the face of the Browns team and his fate and the 26 allegations that were levied against him.

That's only because there is no logic in use by the so-called analysts, and it doesn't matter how many parrot the notion, it is still a preposterously stupid notion.

The rest of the stuff you post is just drivel and senseless. To you, anyone that isn't 100% rah-rah onboard with any absurd unreality that might result in putting him on the field sooner is somehow "rooting against the team" when the ACTUAL REALITY is we're simply looking at how things really are. You want sooooooo badly to pretend that none of this is an issue and it can all be magically wiped away that you openly sign up for every crackpot thing that has been floated out there over the last six months.

True That!

Same people, same arguments, I'll check back next week for any real news or discussion.

Even if actual news happens, it'll still be the same people, same arguments, just slightly different baselines.

Too True....

It is sad because the Browns "being punished" is a direct response to the trade the Browns made, not anything driven by fans. When the trade was made people spoke up about THIS as their concern, but the Idiocracy considered them wrong then. Now that what was said then is reality now the Idiocracy only has the choice to blame the same people who said this is where we could end up. We were Browns fans when we didn't want to end up here to begin with, so the idea that we aren't now is just crazy.

Yet he was still traded this year with all of the same allegations and even added lawsuits since last year. If he couldn't have been traded last year with these allegations looming he couldn't have been traded when the browns rewarded him with a 230 million dollar contract. The exact same situations existed at both times.

Let's see if I have this straight. It was watson who decided to sit out and take the 10+ mil. last year. So the NFL should retroactively consider the salary he chose last year as a partial form and payment of punishment being decided on this year? That the salary he agreed upon last year which is totally unrelated to any of this should be in consideration as part of the punitive stage for his actions? We'll just fire up the old time machine and..... ?

Let's not confuse anyone - Watson did not agree to accept 10+M, it was what he was due on his base salary in 2021. Watson sacrificed nothing, collected his full pay, and hung out his teammates to dry being a healthy scratch each week of the 2021 season. All this drama less than 6-months after signing the second highest contract ever in the NFL. Just one other point, the Texans owner's comments about having the inmates running the prison which started the racist thing in Houston occurred in 2017. Obviously, McNair being an alleged racist had no bearing on the contract Watson signed in 2020 when he said:

"I'm lost for words, honestly. Been crying a little bit, a lot of bit, really. It's just an amazing moment for me," the two-time Pro Bowler said. "The money is amazing. It's life-changing. It's great. But the biggest thing is for the (organization) to just trust in me and believe in me that I'm their guy, I'm their quarterback is the biggest thing that really touches me."

Less than 6-months later Watson is demanding a trade because he didn't get to select the new black head coach the team selected.

I think the "last year should count" narrative largely stems from a misunderstanding that him not playing had to do with his legal issues. I think we're 99% certain (translation: conspiracy theories aside) that his not playing last year had absolutely nothing to do with his legal issues. It was because he wasn't happy with the FO (which, if we can ever debate that on its own merits, would be a worthwhile debate, IMO).

My understanding is that Watson's holdout was due to the FO and ownership's handling of the team, in general. Keep in mind, this was going down fresh off the Bill O'Brien dumpster fire and all the talent that they traded away for peanuts. Then there's the dude (I want to say the president) that nobody liked except for the owner. He was tight with BOB in terms of putting that team into the toilet... who got to bring in his buddy when the GM spot opened up. Then they went and hired David Culley who *shocker* only lasted a year.

Looking back on last couple decades of our own team, I struggle to suppress all empathy/sympathy for a player who doesn't want to be part of a running joke.

Just two quick points, Culley only lasting a year could be, hell - should be, attributed to Watson refusing to play. Second, considering the history of the Browns the last 22 years, I wouldn't say that coming to Cleveland is a step up from what was going on in Houston. After all that has occurred in the last 12-months, I'd say he's jumped from the pot into the damn fire not withstanding his own self-created issues.

I am not even going to respond to the nonsense from a group of posters who are wrong about almost everything they ever say and no matter how many times they are wrong, they fight another dumb fight w/the same vigor.

However, you are mostly a logical and rational poster. Not one person is saying that Watson did not play for Houston due to his legal issues. Everyone KNOWS he chose to sit out and not play for the Texans. Everyone knows that he made that decision separate of his legal issues. Everyone knows that he was paid last year. Please don't let the guys who twist words around every day cloud your judgement about what this about.

What some insiders are saying is that the trade would have occured last year had the threat of criminal charges not a real threat as time progressed. Following? The very moment that the GJ decided not to indict Watson, teams went after Watson hard. ESPN was calling it the Watson Sweepstakes. So, the thinking is that the NFL and Watson's team are trying to find a settlement. If Watson were to pay a fine that is approximately the same as the salary he collected last year, the two sides might come to an understanding that he did miss games last year because teams would not trade for him while the criminal charges were still a possibility. That is not hard to comprehend. The thinking is that the number of games will still increase from the current 6 game suspension, but it won't be a year or an indefinite because of the amount of the fine and the fact that he wasn't traded last year due to the possibility of criminal charges. Also, none of the insiders are saying that is something independently being championed by just Watson's team, but that both sides might think a settlement is in the best interest of all considering the fact that both sides almost assuredly will not want to have this case go to Federal Court.

With all that said, no one has said that this is definitely going to happen. It's just one possibility that helps both sides reach a settlement and avoid Federal Court. It is far from illogical while at the same time I would not say it is probable. It's a possibility to try and put this process to bed. There is going to be media and public outrage no matter what decision is made. It's a no win situation for the NFL and Watson.

I'll respond to you instead of the other insulting post from vers.

Whether you call it illogical or just unrealistic or flat wrong ... This idea that Watson served a year off because of his legal issues is 100% dead wrong. It doesn't matter what any talking head wants to say, and it doesn't matter that a Watson pom pom waving cheerleader wants to make up or how they want to try to frame the debate. And I can kill any argument as such very easily and emphatically.... The truth is those trying to suggest it might fly are taking a set of circumstances after the fact and trying to mangle them together as a plausible single themed set of events.

The reality is that it matters not whether the trade didn't happen because Watson was valued too highly by the team, or because of hesitancy by trade partners as legal issues might have been made known..... AT ANY TIME LAST SEASON WATSON COULD HAVE SUITED UP AND PLAYED FOR THE HOUSTON TEXANS BUT CHOSE NOT TO. In it's entirety it was Watson's choice. Period. The rest is a bunch of people trying to make the optics look and sound something other than the reality. End of.

Ding, ding, ding!

AND he was eligible to play for any team, as per Roger Goodell ahead of the trade deadline. Goodell: "The league will exercise patience so as not to interfere with the ongoing civil suits and law enforcement investigations."

AND he could have been traded to the Dolphins, but didn't want to settle civil cases.


If Deshaun was placed on the exempt list, he would have a (weak) leg to stand on to at least ask for the league to take into consideration, as punishment, the time in which he was made ineligible to play football. That time never existed.

All reasons why Watson didn't play football last year were his own. Any hesitance by any team to trade for him were a result of his own actions. Expecting that the league would retroactively consider such time a "punishment period" is crazy!

Ditto

Dear Roger and your lap dog: stop ducking around.

It's a good thing they expedited this matter.

This is the part of the narrative that is the biggest falsity surrounding Watson. Though two grand jury's failed to bring an indictment at the time, in Texas, the criminal statute of limitations for rape and other sexual assault offenses (which includes oral sex without consent) that involves a victim who is 18 or older is 10 years after the day the offense took place. The civil statute of limitations for sex crimes against adults is 5 years after the date the offense occurred.

In a nutshell, the statement that Watson wasn't traded while criminal charges were still a possibility is an out and out lie because he still can be charged according to Texas law anytime during the next 7-years according to my calculations if the DA decides to take it to the GJ again. There's also almost 3-years of window left for additional civil suits to be filed by any of the 66 women not involved in the original civil suits (approx 42 I suspect).

Bottomline is that if anyone has fallen into that barrel of belief that once Mr. Harvey's ruling comes down from the NFL that this is over is walking a very thin line of hope because this thing is most likely not over yet. Just imagine in 3-months that 3-4 women come forward stating Watson forced them to have oral sex with him. This thing will explode back onto the front burner in the NFL.

j/c:

Just a reminder. The Watson sweepstakes began the minute that the GJ in Texas decided not to indict Watson.

The same people who belittled me and laughed at me for saying Watson's defense team should go after the owners and that precedence be used as a defense are the same folks who are once again on the attack. They never learn from their mistakes. I do have to say that I am not the one who brought up Watson not being traded last year and initially I thought the same things as the Watson haters. However, once I heard it explained, it did make some sense to me. Again, I doubt it will happen, but it is logical and it makes some sense.

Moving on. I've brought up punishment before and haven't heard much--if any--feedback on the issue. What are your thoughts on punishment?

My thoughts are that punishment should be used as a deterrent rather than to rehabilitate. There are things I don't do in my life because of what could happen if I break the law. For example, I don't drink and drive because I don't want the punishment that comes w/being caught. I also think our penal system is a great example of how punishment fails miserably to rehabilitate those who are incarcerated. Furthermore, I think the legal system should decide who is punished and how harshly one is punished. The criminal courts have not convicted or even charged Watson w/a crime. The threat of Civil suits have led to 20+ cases being settled out of court where the accusers have been paid an agreed amount of compensation. I DO NOT believe in the the Court of Public Opinion deciding upon what is fair punishment and to play vigilante and punish those that the legal system has not.

I think about who on this board is not satisfied w/Watson receiving a 6-game suspension and ask what is their motivation? Why do they need to champion the fight for a more severe punishment that will directly hurt the Cleveland Browns and those of us who still support the team? There are posters who are uncomfortable w/Watson and I fully understand and support their feelings. However, those guys don't come here and fight for a more severe punishment. They express their feelings and leave it at that. But make no mistake, there is a small group of posters who rail against anyone w/an opposing opinion in their quest to see a man--and a fanbase--be punished more severely. They surely are driven by spite. Spite is an emotion with an unhelpful sense of justice. It is an unhealthy emotion that is often harmful and malicious. It certainly isn't productive.

j/c:

It will be nice to find out the exact punishment. While this story will never end, it will at least give us some clarity on how the team will be affected.

It's going to wind up being an 11 game suspoension, with 6 games active, so he accrues an NFL season, and his contrtact advances. There will probably be a fine in the area of $8-10 million.

JMHO, of course.

That's not entirely true. Teams weren't looking to pick him up because of potential legalstuff AND the Texans still wanted a haul of draft picks for their fQB. IIRC, teams were inquiring but nothing went anywhere because Texans wanted compensation as if he was squeaky clean. As to the subject at hand, I really think it comes down to the fact that he wasn't suspended, wasn't fined, and still collected his paycheck despite not playing. I HIGHLY doubt, with how aggressively the NFL is trying to look like they care, that they would go for something like that.

j/c:

I expected it would land here too.

It almost feels like this whole thing hinges on watson getting paid for not playing last year. Which I kind of understand, but at the same time, wouldn't it be Houston that should be upset since they actually paid it. I think a settlement is probably looking more likely. I think everyone just wants this to go away. I think 8-10 games and 10mil fine will be close to where it ends up. The fact that the NFL is even considering a settlement makes me think their case wouldn't be as much as a slam dunk in federal court as they think. I'm sure Harvey has informed them of this. Its not whether he deserves a longer suspension or not but comes down to how the PCP is worded and how its precedence for violations of this sort are written.

So basically Harvey is not going to rule lol. It’s just a game of chicken between Watson and the NFL.

10 games and a fine IMO

Harvey will make a ruling. It's all just endless speculation by the media and nobody really has any idea.

When things continued to drag out with Judge Robinson it was speculated she was holding out for Watson and the NFL to reach a settlement, which was not the case.

Tomorrow will be new speculation and the day after that will be new speculation.

Hopefully, we have an answer before Labor Day.

IMHO, there's a couple of items that are holding up the negotiations.

The NFL wants an indefinite suspension with a minimum of a year and Watson's ego has him stuck on 6-7-8 games with a fine. Afterll, Watson still claims he hasn't done anything wrong. Neither side has moved much off their platform.

The other item is requirements for Watson for his NFL life:
a) The recommendation from Judge Robinson that restricts his massage usage to only team employed or team approved therapists.
b) The addition of counseling with follow-ups and report backs prior to reinstatement.
c) The closing of all open civil suits and the understanding that the indefinite suspension becomes immediately reinstated if any additional suits surface, criminal or civil.

The issue I think revolves around the fact that Watson cannot admit guilt in a remorse statement because the statute of limitation is open for 10-years for criminal and 5-years for civil claims. Due to these potential open items, the NFL cannot close the case on the backend not knowing what the additional women (42 by last estimate) or what the DA might do with this situation in the immediate future. The absolute worst thing that could happen to the NFL is to close the case on the backend only to have additional civil suits arise or an overzealous DA takes the case(s) to the GJ with newly discovered evidence or admittance of guilt by Watson. The PR fallout would be unbelievable if the NFL gets this punishment wrong and more issues surface after settling.

Wow Wow Wow!!!?

Have you really thought this words over before you wrote it?

Come on Vers! The reason we, you, me, everyone don’t drive with alcohol in our body is because we don’t want to hurt some innocent people. Imagine crashing into a mother with a small baby in her arms while having alcohol in your body. (Where I live we have 0,2% alcohol tolerance but in reality it’s actually zero) Good luck with excuses to the police and the judge, not to mention good luck with your future sleep and finding harmony in your life.

Did I mention how easy it is to continue living in the same city as the dead mother/baby’s family/relatives/friends.

So Vers, the reason we should not drive with alcohol in our system is off course that you and I care for others well being instead being selfish and worry about our future punishment. If I really want to shame you I could said that your reasons to not getting caught is similar to your favorite DSW. His reasoning around excuses sound familiar but maybe a unfortunate coincidence....

But my friend I won’t do that because I hope and think that you’re so much better human than that sorts of excuses.

j/c:

Are you talking about when some of us said watson is a predator? Which Robinson determined to be true. Or is it that some of us said that watson was guilty of the allegations? Which turned out to be true according to Sue Robinson. Or was it when some of us said with that many women involved surely watson was lying in at least some of these cases? Which Robinson found to be true.

Who was so wrong again? And who is it again that keeps fighting another dumb fight with vigor against what was proven to be true?

This in and of itself debunks any claims that watson could not have been traded last season over possible forthcoming legal charges. There was actually a trade proposed by the Dolphins last season. How anyone can ignore that and make such a claim is a reach of epic proportions and totally false.

Remember her ruling was according to league rules and not the law. The law at this time declined to charge Watson as a criminal and did not consider him a sexual predator. There is a huge difference what Sue Robinson wrote and what is a sexual predator. She concluded that he acted in a predatory manner. She never said he was a sexual predator like you and other posters are alluding to.

The NFL had no guidelines or requirements that called for her to call watson a predator. None. It also did not have any allegations that watson was to be judged on being a liar. Yet she did. Watson said he did nothing wrong or inappropriate against any of these women. Which even by the NFL guidelines also proved to be false.

The NFL and the claims it made against watson included nothing that called for her to determine he acted as a predator, that his actions were egregious or that he was a liar. Nothing. Those were all her independent findings based on the evidence presented to her.

Based on Sue Robinsons rulings and the words she used, do you think its more probable DW is guilty or innocent ? Its not hard. The burden of proof for the NFL is about the same as a civil trial. When it looks like, walks like and quacks .... it's probably a duck.

That was your only takeaway from what I wrote? I agree it was a bad example, but I won't even drive if I have had 1 or 2 beers. The main idea of my post was about what do people think about punishment and that spite is a terrible character trait. But yeah, I would have no problem killing a mother and her baby. Whatever you say.

Uh-oh....does ESPN have some info we all don't? Gonna check those betting odds.

j/c

Re; Sue Robinson.

As a judge, she was bound by the law. As an affiliate of the NFL in "extra-judicial" matters, PR (and the league's financial bottom line) plays a much bigger role.

I kinda feel like the whole NFL process is as much about the owners trying to minimize/get rid of the precedent of fully guaranteed contracts as it is about anything Watson did or didn't do. This way, in future negotiations, owners can say Watson actually didn't get the full 230M if he's fined, and they can claim extraordinary circumstances. They obviously also want to alienate as few potential customers as possible. The ones making the money at the top don't care about what Watson did except for how it effects their ability to keep raking in as much money as possible. Sad, but likely true.

I think I'd put odds for the division as follows:

Bengals 42%
Steelers 2%
Browns and Ravens each 28%


Bengals WR all coming back. All healthy, which they weren't 100% last year. A top 6 or 7 RB. They will score a lot of points and will be hard to beat.

I think they know how they have handled sexual situations like this in the past far too lightly and it's never too late to right a wrong. As for the motivation of their actions you may very well be correct. I mean it is a money motivated corporation which all corporations are. So there's no doubt money plays into it. And statistically it makes sense.

They have been heavily marketing the game toward women more and more to expand their fan base. Over half the population of Americans are women. I think it's past time they treat such things with the severity it deserves and according to the agreement this is founded on, there are no set punishments for such infractions and it up to the leagues discretion.

Raven +155
Bengals +180
Browns +300
Steelers +1000

Interesting about the settlement talks. IMO, the league obviously has leverage because it pretty much knows how Harvey will decide. Watson isn't without leverage, though. If Harvey issues a ruling, the new CBA will be confirmed to be a lopsided horrible deal (more so than it already has) and Watson would have the option to go to federal court, as slim as the chance of success is there.

I'll be interested to see what happens to that appeals clause during the next round of negotiations.

Amy Trask had some food for thought on this yesterday...

If only DSW had your mindset when he approached all these women we wouldn’t have this conversation.

I’m not trying to convince you to anything but from me perspective I see red flags all over the place.

Booking massage therapist’s over internet.
Using hotel rooms.
Small towels.
Inappropriate sexual approaches.
66 women.

Even when some of them refused to continue he didn’t stop and started to reflect why all meetings didn’t went as smoothly as he wanted. Just like those idiots who continue to drink before driving despite earlier small incidents.

Zero self control.
Total lack of consequence analyses.
Zero responsibility against these women, his family and his employer
Zero self respect.

Just like an addict he just keep on doing his thing no matter what is happening around him.

There you have it Vers! The difference between a responsible man like you and someone who simply don’t care.

This makes a ton of sense.

Thus, the person who simply doesn't care should pay the steepest price for his uncaring attitude.

Let's not forget either that Watson signed the second largest contract in the history of the NFL at over 170M right in the middle of his predatory behavior in 2020. Great way to show thanks to your employer that just made you a multi-millionaire.

Mike Garafolo just said on NFL Network that odds are better than 50/50 that Watson settles with the NFL.

If the NFL really wants to put the screws to Watson and their hand picked appeals officer is rumored to "drop the hammer" on Watson, why on earth would the NFL settle? Makes no sense unless the NFL really, really doesn't want a lawsuit.

Yup.

Garafolo mentioned the NFL being able to avoid the lawsuit if they settle. He also said Watson's camp would accept more than 6 and the NFL less than a full year. He mentioned a fine. I can't remember if he mentioned counseling or not.

I think I'll still have hope for the season if it's 8 games and a hefty fine. Just need Stefanski and Brissett to keep us afloat to the tune of no worse than 5-3.

On a side note, this appears to be the first time the NFL has been afraid of a lawsuit. Might be some real skeletons in that closet that Watson's side is threatening to bring out.

A part of me would like to see the NFL's dirty little secrets exposed, but I'd rather just get Watson back and put an end to the speculation.

I did read an article either yesterday or the day before, that Kessler, the attorney for the NFLPA was going to go hard at the NFL in court if it comes to that. The new agreement supposedly gives the NFLPA a bit more leverage in the courts than what others like Zeke had, but it would still be a steep, steep climb due to the language. I don't know if you read any of the articles I posted about Snyder and all that went down, but Rish, there has to be a mountain of dirt on him and how the NFL covered it up.

If I was Watson's legal representation, I would let the NFL know that if they suspend him a full season, then they could expect a court case where I call Robert Kraft to the stand and make him tell us under oath exactly how many times he went to a massage parlor, exactly what transpired in explicit details and how much he paid for services rendered. Then I would call Snyder and ask him probing questions into the apparent team sanctioned activities against women. And then after that I would call every owner to the stand to give testimony about whether or not they ever had a massage.

But that's just me.

This is where I'm at, and I think this is where the NFL is hoping Watson's side is at.

I don't think the NFL is concerned about a lawsuit that's highly likely to be rejected by a federal court (see Deflategate ruling).

If the NFL was that concerned about a lawsuit they would have closed the book on this when Judge Robinson made her ruling.

If both parties really wanted to settle on an agreement for the suspension, Team Watson and the NFL could sit in a room and knock this out in a day.

I get what you're saying, but it's not just Watson-centric, and does not necessarily conform to good vs bad, but a matter of due process and fairness (before people jump on me, I'm again not gearing this toward Watson).

By your citation, it can be understood how this may not have been the priority it was before, albeit a stupid move in retrospect when you logically think it through, especially given the issues they've had with Goodell's punishments going all willy nilly in the past. I think you can be certain this will be more of a priority in the next CBA negotiations.

If I was leading negotiations with the NFLPA, I'd make a stronger attempt to negotiate a set parameter for "sentencing guidelines" the next time around and/or making the arbitration and appeal process less lopsided.

So are you saying the reports of a settlement is just wishful thinking?

I get the angst with the way players and Watson are treated versus owners. But if there was a challenge by Watson - it would be a contractual dispute and I don't know if that line of questioning would be considered relevant or permissible? I doubt Kraft or Snyder would be compelled to answer questions not relevant to Watson's case. Maybe I am incorrect (dawglover or others with legal backgrounds can maybe offer an opinion?) - but pointing to someone else who may or may not have "got off light" on different allegations and circumstances, doesn't seem like it would fly in a court of law. And going on a fishing expedition with a witness on a stand to make them look bad or to uncover dirt doesn't seem plausible either.

I'd say it's not impossible a settlement is reached. I think it more media speculation than anything though. We reached this point in the saga when it appeared Judge Robinson was dragging her feet on a decision. Same story was floated about the NFL being worried about a lawsuit and might settle with Watson. Turns out she was just being thorough in her ruling.

Supposedly the CBA states that owners were to be held to a higher standard. That would make the actions of Kraft and other owners relevant. Even if a judge would ultimately disallow the owners being questioned, the NFL wouldn't know that until the case went to court. I am sure they are terrified of the possibility that Kraft would have to publicly answer questions about his actions at a massage parlor.

The other thing is that the NFL doesn't want this case going to court during the season.

I'm pretty certain if the nflpa takes it to court, ain't nothing happening this season.

The Biggest Clue the NFLPA Is Likely Not Suing NFL, If It Lengthens Watson Suspension
League of Justice - Amy Dash

The NFL has appealed and Roger Goodell or his designee could very well increase Watson’s suspension by just a few games or up to a year as originally requested. Many reporters say the NFL wants a full year suspension.

So, if Goodell does give Watson a year, will we see a full court battle? The NFLPA could try to go to federal court and challenge the arbitration BUT there is one glaring clue that it will not or at least if it does, it will definitely not succeed.

The night before Judge Sue Robinson, the arbitrator, issued her decision, the NFLPA released a statement. In the statement, it indicated it would accept Robinson’s decision to show that the new disciplinary process is legitimate. It asked the NFL not to appeal. Of course, this was likely because the Union knew the discipline would be around six games, on the low side.

However, in its statement the NFLPA also praised the “fair” and “full” process. Specifically, it said:

“A former Federal Judge – appointed jointly by the NFLPA and NFL – held a full and fair hearing, has read thousands of pages of investigative documents and reviewed arguments from both sides impartially. Every player, owner, business partner and stakeholder deserve to know that our process is legitimate and will not be tarnished based on the whims of the League office.”

In the past, whenever the NFLPA has challenged an arbitration decision, it has done so on the grounds that it was “unfair.” In fact, one of the main legal standards for overturning an arbitration decision (which is rarely done by a court) is fairness.

Here, the NFLPA has already admitted, and in writing, that the process was fair! The two sides jointly chose the arbitrator, she reviewed thousands of pages of documents and arguments from both sides “impartially” and held a “full and fair” hearing. A court would laugh the NFLPA out of court if it challenged the arbitration process. Plus, this new process was JUST agreed to in the new CBA by both sides! It was newly negotiated and bargained for, another reason a court would not overturn it and likely not even review it.

If the NFLPA tries to merely challenge any appeals decision by Goodell or his designee as “unfair,” it would also not have a fairness argument. Again, the NFLPA agreed to this new procedure, including a right to appeal and have Goodell or his designee have the right to have final say. Furthermore, Goodell or his designee will be basing any increase in suspension on the facts found by Judge Robinson. Her factual findings of multiple violations of the personal conduct policy are set in stone and provide plenty of legal groundwork to justify a year suspension, possibly even banishment. She found the NFL met its burden of proof that Watson more likely than not sexually assaulted four women, engaged in conduct detrimental to the integrity of the NFL and put the women in a feeling of genuine danger of their safety.

The NFLPA issued a statement supporting the fairness and thoroughness of Robinson’s findings. Any federal appeal would need to prove procedural unfairness and cannot survive by merely complaining about an unfair “number” of games. Not liking the length of a suspension or discipline, does not provide a legal basis for a federal court to overturn an arbitration decision. The PCP gives broad discretion to the NFL to ultimately discipline players indefinitely or even remove them from the league, so long as discipline is imposed by the initial arbitrator. Plus, the lawyers for the NFLPA already know this. They have a legal obligation to only bring claims that have legal merit and cannot bring frivolous claims. Furthermore, Watson is tired from this whole situation, and may not want to engage in a full-on year-long federal court legal battle that he’s likely to lose (much like Tom Brady backed down when his appeal lost, rather than petitioning the Supreme Court.)

The NFLPA’s own statement would surely come back to bite it, if the Union even tried to bring this case to federal court. The worst-case scenario here for Watson is that he sits out for a year and can petition for reinstatement. The best-case scenario, in my opinion, is that he gets somewhere in the 8-12 game range, just short of a year.

Any talk of a federal court battle is just no longer realistic, especially considering, it already failed for Brady & Elliott when the arbitration process was way more unfair than it is today.

That kind of process would likely end up with a long list of NFL players being called up to answer specifics about their suspensions as well. Probably Elliot having to rehash his suspension for domestic violence, for example. Not sure how much the NLFPA wants that kind of attention.

I agree. I think the NFL wants to appear to want the hammer brought, but secretly just wants this over without going to court

They don't want a lawsuit. Right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle it keeps the bad press in action. The NFL has as much reason for this to end as any party involved.

No doubt some parameters will be a big talking point. At least to me, the idea of indefinite suspension is absurd. Even if the end date is 3 years out, there has to be some sort of end. At that point you can discuss conditions which would reduce the length.

I don't know. If they do and have had contract with Harvey, that would be totally improper on Harvey's part.

Or, the NFL is aware of the optics of this mess and just want it to go away without offending anyone. They want to look like they actually care and not let the stink linger.

I think you raise some good points.

First of all, I am not sure I agree w/Trask's contention. The language of the Personal Conduct Policy is clear and it doesn't take dastardly deeds like sexual misconduct to run afoul of the policy. Drug use, domestic violence, DUI's, fighting in clubs, altercations w/law enforcement, playing a parlay while you not even active, etc, ect would all paint the NFL in a negative light and the NFL could suspend you. Let's face it, the NFL isn't populated fully by choir boys.

I think the latest agreement was a step in the right direction for the NFLPA. Having a Discipline Officer who was approved jointly by the league and the NFLPA is an improvement over the previous system in which Goodell--or his designee---had total control of the hearings. Like you, I think the Discipline Code will evolve when the next CBA is negotiated. I can't predict how much it will evolve, but it's a process. A process that absolutely needs to evolve to protect the rights of the players and actually place some accountability on the owners.

peen, before I reply......would you please clarify your statement? What would be "totally improper on Harvey's part?" I want to make sure I am not misinterpreting you.

Actually, I think the Elliot case would help prove the NFLPA's point of contention. The league did him dirty. In fact, it was beyond unethical. Furthermore, I think people are confusing violating the Personal Conduct Policy w/an actual court of law. The Personal Conduct Policy was written and is being enforced by the NFL. That is how they get away w/punishing players who have not been punished by the legal system. The NFL does not care about justice. They care about money and they do not want to offend The Court of Public Opinion.

There's no way they would be able to get Kraft or Snyder on the stand.

I don't think they have a contract with him in this case. That would definitely be improper. I just think they know how he would actually rule and/or have a very good indication.

I agree it was better than it was before. If I'm the NFLPA, though, I'd hammer on Goodell and the NFL in the next round of negotiations for their illusory commitment to improving the process.

Agreed. I would shoot for where the Disciplinary Officer makes the final decision, rather than an appointed designee of Goodell or Goodell himself.

There's always been an end date suggested. Even now, asking for an indefinite suspension was followed by a minimum of a year - that's an end date. That means Watson can apply for reinstatement at that time - 1 year. The stipulation would be if he met the requirements attached to it.

IMHO, I would be surprised in there wasn't big stipulations on any suspension whether agreed to or not. Just on the immediate surface, there's still one civil suit not settled. If that goes to court, then is there going to be a stipulation based on the outcome? Another issue is the balance of the 66 women Watson is connected too. What does the NFL do if more civil suits start coming in against Watson? Finally, what about the statues of limitations where criminally it is open for 10-years from the date of the occurrence and civil, 5-years form the date. What will be the suspension, penalty, or response if criminal charges surface or a bucket full of more civil suits? Surely the NFL will put conditions in place to address these things if they happen since they are possibilities of occurring. There just seems to be more on the table than just how many games Watson might be suspended for, not to mention fines, counseling, and Judge Robinson's guidance on future massages.

This where I am, MilkMan. Despite participation in and cooperation with this process, we still are being handicapped by the foot-dragging which has to make the FO and coaching duties more challenging and placing us at a disadvantage, kind of a "phantom punishment' beyond whatever parameters emplaced by the outcomes/appeals.

I guess the "done in a day" is attractive to exhausted fans like me. That is a disconnect. How many people does it take working alongside the most recent Goodell designated lackey to finalize the "expedited" debacle. Hate to see where we would be if they decided to slow walk it to punish everybody moreover. SMH

j/c,

Someone needs to tweet to Amy Trask that there is no such thing as "very good men" (or women).

Amy Trask
@AmyTrask
Okay this has been bugging me - in my tweet about the
@NFLPA
and @NFL
(below), I wanted to write "the overwhelming majority of players are tremendous men," but ran outta room so used vast instead of overwhelming and good instead of tremendous - okay now I feel better - and hi.

https://twitter.com/AmyTrask/status/1559540722109337600

j/c:

Coming back for the first game against Houston, lol.

Also, accrues a full season.

11 games seems interesting. If it were 12, the Browns could roll over the contract until next year since Watson wouldn't accrue a full/real season.....do I have that right?

Finally!??

So, his second game will be against the Texans, then, right?
Should be interesting.

He still gets enough games to accrue a season.

Correct.

If it's not real - I don't know - we should get the ruling soon:

A Deshaun Watson ruling is expected TODAY | Will the Cleveland Browns FINALLY get clarity on QB1?

https://www.wkyc.com/video/news/a-d.../95-b255cc7a-ee85-4df8-a759-1361f2d70818

P.S. Unless that article I posted is just wishful thinking. lol

I think the number of suspended games might spell the end of the Jimmy G rumors. Now that Watson will accrue a fullseason, rolling over that $40M in available cap space will help go towards paying Watson in 2023. If it were 12+ games, that cap might not be as important to carry over considering Jimmy G's contract would be expiring at the end of the year anyways and you be paying Watson his Year 1 salary breakdown.

First game back will be against the Texans. It's an 11 game suspension. If it were 11 weeks, the Texans would be his second game back.

I'm bummed he barely accrues a whole season. I'd be much more fine with the Browns getting "punished" if the Texans were going to get any sort of grief.

11 Games and 5M fine

Browns would have been better off if the suspension was actually 12 games instead of 11 so a full season was not accrued.

Hilarious that a guy with 12 followers on Twitter broke this story.

Watson against....

Texans
Bengals
Ravens
Saints
Commanders
Steelers

Then whoever in the playoffs.

Well that sucks.

It is on espn now.

DW has not signed it yet but the agreement is in place. The only reason it is not signed is because he is at practice.

So thankfully maybe we can get back to football.

He is suspended and fined. It is my hope the women and fans can move on.

Ahhh... eleven games.

Big middle finger in the face of Jimmy as Deshaun accrues a full season.

5M fine means that this has now cost Watson between 12 -15M (my estimate). Hopefully he has learned some valuable lessons.


Seems a bit early, but...

There's always next year!!

Some people are saying the 11-game suspension and fine is still too light. They are saying it should've been for the whole season.

Debatable, but yeah. Given the NFL seemed to REALLY want year+, the 11 game suspension with the Houston game still in play (not sure how much stock I put in that report that they didn't want him playing vs Houston this year) kinda seems to me like they didn't want Cleveland to benefit from the contract not tolling. If that's even the thought process, I'd be much more on board with that if Houston was also going to face some consequences.

I'm also surprised that the fine was as light as it was. I never really had a # of games in mind in terms of where they would settle (much less what is actually fair), so if both sides agree to 11, then I guess that's cool.

And Jimmy deserves a big middle finger for AGAIN thinking he knows something about football. The league and his fellow owners know he screwed EVERYONE with that joke of a contract. For Watson, I doubt he's learned anything. Can't wait to see how "all world" he is when the weather gets ugly on the lakefront. If the Browns don't win the Super Bowl with Watson, this will THE biggest joke of all time in Cleveland sports history. Haslam and friends better pray they hoist the Lombardi. Or else. SMH

Does the mob surprise you?

j/c:

The fact the NFL was ok with 11 and he debuts playing Houston, where this all started, looks really bad and very much story-line fishing as Watson comes back to play.

10 games would look better for the NFL, IMO.

He'll go 2-4 if he's lucky. There will be no playoffs. LOL

Houston reportedly enabled his behavior. If any owner/team deserves a middle finger from the league, it'd be them first and foremost.

You can't please everyone. Hopefully Watson stays away from the game while he is suspended. He'll be nothing but a distraction if he is on the sidelines during games.

How did they screw everyone?

And as Browns fans why would you care if they did?

They think Watson should never play football again so no, they don't surprise me.

You might be right but Haslam just increased the cost of doing business in the NFL. The owners CANNOT be happy about that. He really screwed every one of them over and good. SMH

j/c:

Come on man - the cost of doing business is already skyrocketing. The owners cannot be happy about the price of signing players going forward. That's my view.

Again, it's a big leap to connect the # of games to the NFL trying to "punish" the Browns. As for punishing us for the contract... I again point to a report that went out when the contract thing went down about a team that wanted to match. A monster, fully-guaranteed contract was a matter of 'when' and not 'if'.

Damn. This was my hope. 8 games, $10m.

I can understand the league not wanting to let him pay his way out of it.

11 games in meaningful and it is a shot at Browns owners. If Watson was suspended 12 games this season would not count as year 1 on a 5 year deal. With an 11 game suspension this year will be year 1.

j/c...

I figured that the suspension would be 11 games; the most he could have while accruing a season, and advancing his contract. I am surprised that the fine was only $5 million. I figured almost double that.

Agreed.

Funny, I was wondering, a couple weeks ago, "why is every suspension in the history of the NFL (seems like, anyway) an even number of games". The aha moment (however insignificant) was seeing that a player is eligible to return to practice after half the suspension is served.

After Roger's appeal, I was stuck in that "will it be 10 or 12 games?" mindset. Should have known it would be "different" in order to give Jimmy the stink eye.

Someone pull the plug on this press conference...

Live...

Just say no comment!

Funny because before it was announced I was wondering why all talk centered on even numbers

No kidding. Sheesh!

I remember checking and could only find suspensions with even numbers... at least the high profile cases. Do you know of any? Thought I found the reason when I saw "player can return to practice after half the suspension is served".

Not that it matters much, but I agree 100% with this.

Well now that he's received his punishment by the NFL and that part of the process is over he can go back to being who he really is. Nobody should be surprised by this. Many were buying into his supposed apology while some were trying to tell you that if you listened to it, it wasn't what he wanted to make you think it was.

Nothing has really changed with him except he can now go back to denying his behavior and acting like nothing really happened. You know, because others were just triggered.

This is what Haslam brought you. This is what an intense investigation actually looks like in the end. A catastrophe.

The punishment does at least set a new precedent in a good direction. Sexual misconduct has been treated far too mildly for far too long by the NFL and obviously blaming the women and making light of such behavior seems to be a trend that still has a long way to go in order to correct it by many men after reading this board since this thing began here.

To me it feels as if Goodell and the NFL front office wanted to punish the Browns as well as Watson. I can only assume the other owners were upset with the fact it was fully guaranteed. Regardless of whether the other owners liked it or not, the Browns are free to offer any amount of money they want as long as they fall within the cap. If the league wanted to punish the Browns why not do something to the 4 other teams who aggressively tried to acquire him?

The reason I feel the league wanted to put some kind of pain on the Browns is the length of time it took to do anything about it. The issue came to light April of 2021, 16 months ago. Some said the NFL had to wait for the law/courts but they claim the grand jury had no impact on their decision. Judge Robinson took her time and wrote a very detailed decision showing she put a lot of thought into it. Then the league threw that aside and determined we needed another look, by a guy they announced within 48 hours. He then took 2 weeks.

This could have been settled months ago and if the league knew what they wanted the trade should have been disallowed and how does Houston stay clean when it was happening on their watch.

Now the strange 11 game amount costing the Browns a year of DWs services.

I am glad it is over and was prepared for 12 -17 games so no big deal, but it just reeks of punishing not just DW, but the Browns.

As an aside does anyone know if DW can still participate in pre-season and when can he return to the team to practice. Judge Robinson's decision had him back a cuople weeks before game 7 IIRC.

Just my 2 cents.

Haslam should not talk either. Always steps in it. Just let Dee speak.

j/c:

As a Browns fan, the length of the suspension is depressing, but I'm glad the actual decision has been made. I also think Watson should shut his mouth and just say things like he is going to do all he can to improve as a player and a human being or something like that.

Amen, I'm glad the decisions are over, now just execute the punishment and self-help phase. On to football. Go Browns!!!

j/c,
I think that the punishment is too severe, but I'm grateful for the closure.

Go Browns!!!

Sell the team then.

You do understand that it's hard to "help yourself" when you keep denying you did anything wrong and claim this was all because people were triggered, right?

Always said the reports the NFL didn't want him playing the HOU game were total hogwash.

Like everyone - glad this is over, depressing as it is. Although Watson clearly something of an idiot to open his mouth like that. Jimmy we knew was an idiot also.

Having said this is "over" - don't be surprised if these allegations and the whole thing keeps rearing it's head every time the Browns are on national TV or make a playoff run for at least 12-24 months.

Clearly, he is truly contrite. The picture of penitence. Jeezus, Tony.

Is Watson just dumb?

Spoken like a true reprobate mind.


“Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:”

NDA?

Well, it is a well-known fact that the owners are losing a ton of money on their teams.

The NFL will probably move the Texans game to MNF so they can capitalize on the interest money it will bring ...

My bad...I meant contact.

The cost of signing players is already baked into every single year in a manner that guarantees each team makes money as long as the owner isn't a complete idiot.
It doesn't matter how much any one player costs, the total amount available to any team for signing ALL of their players is limited by the Salary Cap. Now, while the Cap may SEEM malleable, it really isn't. There are just techniques as far as accounting goes that allows team to move numbers around. Probably the biggest are renegotiating existing contracts and carrying over unused Cap from previous years (which we are EXCELLING at).

https://nflpa.com/posts/nfl-economics-101

I am sure there are people that wished he never played again, the suspension length should be enough to satisfy most reasonable concerns and send a message that similar behavior is not tolerated. Hopefully it is time to start moving forward.

Could be that Watson wanted a shot the Houston and the NFL shortened it 1 game to give it to him. Maybe that is their punishment to the Texans.

I think that is just normal. People don't think in odd numbers or speak in odds numbers all that much.

I highly doubt that anybody involved cared about what Watson wants.

It's far more likely that the NFL just wanted to ensure that Watson accrued a season and the Browns didn't reap the benefit of having him for part of the year while still getting him all of next year on that first-year contract number.
I'd wager that they were locked in on either 11 games or a full season and nothing else was an option.

Unless the outcome of all of this was determined prior to schedule release in April, or unless the schedule was created with a forward eye to this as a possibility/probability, I'd say that it is just a coincidence.

The FBI must have something to do with it!

Lost for word. Is his advisers and the Browns top dogs also a bunch of idiots too?

All of you who defended him to the hilt has once again been let down and have to swallow another stupid. who was it that gave him permission to open his mouth in front of a camera in a Cleveland Browns uniform? Haven’t they learned anything since this started? Say hello to dumb and dumber!

All I can say with certainty is that this isn’t over yet, mark my words. Stupid people will always find a way to continue to be stupid.

No matter the feelings, I am glad things are set and the team can plan accordingly.

Go Browns!

Impossible, this is far too organized and makes sense.

There is a distinct possibility Watson thinks he is innocent and he might very well be. However, it won't do him any good to continue to talk about it and instead, only draw the wrath of people who already have convicted him and want him punished. He should zip it and only talk about how he is going to be a better player and person moving forward.

With that said, it is my hope that a lot of people can talk about their feelings on Watson and league today and that the Refs move all the talk involving Watson--The Person to the Tailgate forum and the Pure Football forum can return to a forum that is about football.

Why not 10 games or 12 games? What real difference would that have made in all of this?

You said you would accept Robinson's ruling. I guess not.

j/c:

Lolz.

Wait until JW takes over. We'll be clamoring for Jimmuh.

I'll take "What's the absolute dumbest thing DW could say immediately after the settlement is reached" for 400, Alex. Seriously, didn't anyone talk to him?

Well at least it’s over. It’s not ideal for our franchise but what else is new.

As I said other places, this is a tricky spot for us because it’s tantamount to a wasted season. I thought 6-8 games was the max that Brissett could keep us afloat, but looking at that stretch of games from week 7-12 is BRUTAL

That is what I heard and saw, as well. The return to facility date and being practicing date sure don't match-up w/that proclamation.

Can anyone explain the discrepancy?

That was one of my first thoughts. Why the hell didn't anyone coach him on what to say and how to present himself? SMH

10 games isn't maximizing the suspension while still ensuring he accrues a season.
12 games prevents him from accruing a season and his contract would not advance. The Browns would get his services for the season at the bargain rate he is at AND still get him at that rate next year... the NFL wasn't going to reward us like that.

JMHO, he sure hasn't paid for any PR help. Why he is innocent- had no father around him as he grew up, he learned about sex from the hood. I'm glad he's in counseling and real glad he's about to start the end of this situation.

j/c:

Suspended 11 games with a 5 million dollar fine and mandatory mental heath counseling.... Okay.

Since I'm a big Browns fan I would have suspended him 8 games, plus the 5 million dollar fine and without a doubt much needed counseling. If I wasn't a Browns fan? He would be suspended all season with a 5 to 10 million dollar fine and tons and tons of counseling. Personally, I think Mr. Happy Endings got off easy (no pun intended).

I'm glad the waiting is finally over. Now let's play some football!

Regards 11 games - regards the first game back being vs Houston .... This, 100% imo.

That's doesn't make anyone innocent or excuse behavior/choices. It may explain things, but it doesn't excuse anything.

After all this..why should anyone have to coach Watson about what to say or how to conduct himself?

That's my favorite part of all of this. All of the important parts are answered and resolved and all of this can just die off now. I am SO SICK of hearing/seeing/reading about it and all of the inane back and forth.

He's had legal counsel surrounding him all along trying to coach him on what to say. It's very hard to do get someone to listen to you when they can't see their disgraceful behavior as wrong. It may also make it nearly impossible for anyone to help change that behavior.

My advice would be for him to no comment his way into retirement lol. Just say no comment I’m trying to help the team succeed

So it's still not over. Lovely.

I'd counter that it is merely unique, not strange. It makes perfect sense completely aside from the opponent being Houston.

So, after Robinson gave the 6 game suspension, it was over. Until it wasn't. Now, it's an 11 game suspension, a fine, and counseling. So, NOW it's over, right?

Oh, snap, nope, not over yet folks.

At least we got our qb of the future.

Absolutely.

In these last few months, it got to the point where I would've settled for the slightly-more-athletic reincarnation of Caligula as long as he could process defenses quickly, not turn the ball over and play his best ball in the 4th quarter.

No more dark thoughts.

I know about our running game, hopes for Njoku and an improved defense - but we are in the hands of Brissett, Rosen and Dobbs.

Who knows what will happen. I'll be watching every game to find out.

I accepted the 6 games, so naturally, I accept this too. But there are a couple of points I'd like to know more about. Are the in-house browns-approved massages only bit still in place? How long is the mandatory shrink help? And honestly, I can't believe they settled for less than indefinite if he is still denying any wrongdoing. He seriously needs to shut up now, put his head down, and redeem himself with actions because him still denying any wrongdoing just makes him STILL RAPEY IMHO.

Well he made it "sound like" he accepted wrong doing right up until the final decision was rendered. Then he didn't. And some people actually believe this is over.

I thought the punishment was for Watson. Not the browns.

Just because it turns out you aren't rewarded for your screw ups doesn't mean you were punished for them. Or maybe it does? Maybe a message is being sent not to reward a sexual predator with 24 sexual violations hanging over his head with a record setting contract. Hell if I know.

Did the Haynesworth suspension have game implications? like if it was six games he would have missed a rival game or something?

In Watson's defense, he can't openly accept responsibility or admit to any wrongdoing because the statute of limitations is open for 10-years for criminal acts and 5-years for civil. Remember, he still has one outstanding civil case and being he had encounters with 66 women, he's wide open for civil cases from Buzbee and the additional women while the DA can take him to the grand jury as many times as he/she wants if evidence points to criminal activity - like admitting he assaulted the women. There's no such thing a double jeopardy for GJ hearings.

That doesn't excuse him from the stupid azz remarks of standing up there claiming total innocence. Why doesn't he just give Buzbee and the remainder of the 66 women a reason to file more civil suits - dumb azz!

No, nothing like that. To that point, there had only been two game suspensions for anything that took place on the field.

The 6-foot-6, 320-pound Haynesworth stomped on Dallas Cowboys
center Andre Gurode's head Sunday, knocking off his helmet, then
kicked and stomped his face. Gurode needed 30 stitches to repair
the cuts left by the tackle's cleats.

The egregiousness of the act had many expecting a four game suspension. Rog did them one better and handed out the unprecedented suspension. Why? Because he's Rog and suspensions are largely based on public outrage.

But if he had a brain he could STFU.

Sorry if I wasn't as clear on my suggestion. The NFL wanted 12 games, Watson wouldn't agree. It's possible Watson told them if it was 11 games they would have an agreement. He wanted to play Houston, the NFL got really close to their 12 games. So they had a settlement. I didn't mean the NFL wanted him to play Houston.

I 'like' the statement from Dee & Jimmy, owning there is an issue and trying to turn positives out of it. Investing in programs in NEO to grow education, awareness and understanding of sexual misconduct and the underlying causes.

I 'like' the statement from Watson, taking accountability for the decisions he made and apologizing for the pain that was caused.

But the interview screams "The Browns put out a statement in his name."

He doesn't give a second thought about playing Houston, he didn't want his contract to toll.

Valid point as well, but we don't really know he doesn't want a chance to beat them. I'd lean more to your point as the reason he would settle at 11 games.

Edit: I also think the settlement speaks to how much "leverage the NFLPA" truly had, it was discussed they had a ton but it's probably closer to none.

[quote=MemphisBrownie][/quote]

This sure sounds like Buzbee is on the warpath and this isn't done yet by any stretch of the imagination.

[quote=MemphisBrownie][/quote]

This sure sounds like Buzbee is on the warpath and this isn't done yet by any stretch of the imagination.

Buzbee is the one person who benefits from this drama extending on as long as possible.

He better win the Super Bowl - that's for damn sure. What a mess. SMH

What if he doesn't?

If he doesn't? Then it'll be our usual disappointment, frustration and hurt. WE should all be used to it now.

Then you have to ask yourself why did the Browns make the trade? They already had a QB that took them to the playoffs but wanted an upgrade to be Super Bowl bound. Is 230M guaranteed worth it to only get to the same level as before, the playoffs? Will it be worth the giant mess if the Browns make the playoffs 3 of the next 5 seasons but no Super Bowl? To each there own but I'd consider it a failure.

I wouldn't say that.

I will say I would expect to see us in the playoffs assuming things stay the same, and in the playoffs I mean deep. Not so much being a wildcard entry every year.

After that it is unrealistic to demand wins. You do watch football and understand how things can go...right?

Certain posters will throw yet another temper tantrum.

Can't throw a tantrum when the guy you claim is a top 5 qb won't even see the field.

Always next year. You got your guy, Baker doesn't play for the Browns (you despise him)

Sit back and enjoy the sit show. Jacoby, a career backup who's only started due to the starter being hurt? I expect a dismal season.

j/c:

Did anyone else watch actual video from the Watson, Haslam, and Berry parts of the PC?

I initially wondered--along w/a couple of other posters--why Watson wasn't coached on what to say. He actually did say those things about becoming a better player and person. There were a couple of reporters who kept after him about his apology and the regret angle. He finally looked completely confused and uttered those dumb-ass statements that people are going to use against him. There are reasons Bill Belichick does his Press Conferences the way he does.

Haslam came across as real jerk. Some of his facial expressions when Berry was talking were very off-putting.

Berry came across as honest, genuine, and intelligent. I will say his eyes looked like he was in complete disbelief when Haslam was talking. LMAO

Oh no ... we can handle drafting busts and having a QB and Coaching carousel. This is much, much different. Well, to some/many. Being an incompetent football team is one thing. Being an incompetent football team and also selling your team's soul in a desperate attempt to win - sacrificing a team that's built to win now - and signing such a questionable character (being uber kind there) as the face of your franchise? That's next level stuff.

Then it wasn't worth dealing with this crap show

No one has to. It's a personal choice. You either root for the team or you don't. It is not a character flaw to not root for a team. If folks are so disgusted they have the freedom to walk away. [Not talking about you, Jester.] It's just odd that some want to make supporters of the Browns miserable on a Browns message board. Our own fans talk more smack in the used to be Pure Football forum than opposing fans talk about the Browns in the Smack Shack. We already have guys wanting everyone fired and whining about how we sold our souls. LMAO.......oh, the drama!

Exactly.

Then we will hear a lot about the 3 first round picks...

Funny - one guy says he has me on ignore but keeps referencing posts I make that aren't quoted by anyone else. And no - not whining, just highlighting the difference between normal Browns ineptness and what we are into now with the DW situation... and with a humorous tone. You'd expect someone with an "Advanced" English degree to pick up on those subtitles.

Handing out permission slips are ya?
Hey everybody...

Glad we have a little closure.. 11 games makes sense... longest NFL could do while having him accrue a season.... wish it was shorter... but glad there's some closure...

11 games and the largest fine to a player in NFL history. People may not like him but he isn't getting off easy.

We are nowhere close to normal Browns ineptness.

The possibility that we can stay afloat until week 12 is real. I don't think it will happen, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. You couldn't say that about most Browns teams since the return.

Then Watson comes back and knocks the rust off to finish the season then we have at least 4 more shots with him at QB.

While I am not thrilled with what I predict will be a wasted season, it's a better position to be in than Baker in his last year and no certainty at QB beyond this year.

Honest question: Do you think it is possible for a Browns fan to not be a fan of a certain player?

oh I agree... I was hoping for shorter but understand how they arrived at 11..


I'm curious how others think he should be managed once he's allowed to practice again... you want him practicing some with the number 1s... but since he's not playing in games yet you gotta let the backup get reps with the starters as well..

I'm just hoping we are in a decent position when he comes back...

Houston is going to be crazy that week...

Do you think there is certainty at QB now or beyond this year?
... (Man, I wonder if that was asked at the press conf. today, I couldn't tune in. Probably not, of course not, the local cupcake press treats the team with kid gloves, and because they Have to or they won't be given access. )

Wish it was 1 game longer so he didn't accrue this as a season

You might get your wish IF he doesn't comply with his treatment....has an alcoholic ever stated they were not alcoholics. Most of us are human. Go Browns!!!

That's your perspective and I respect that. And Watson when he eventually plays another NFL game should still be elite. But your view is based on you not caring what Watson did. There are a lot of fans that feel the same as you. There's a lot of fans who care that the face of the franchise is the guy who had to settle 25 allegations of sexual assault and who was ruled against with damning/harsh/scolding words by Sue Robinson. And whether you call him a predator or whether you stick to Sue Robinson saying his conduct was predatory ... many are wrestling with that and whether it's the bigger issue than the ban. . . . . A very long way to go, let's see what the situation is come 2025 and whether you and others still think this was a great move come the fullness of time.

Sounds more like he's trying to drum up more business.

This could end up being a Josh Gordon situation again. I mean, what are they going to do, follow him 24/7? And he is young, so nobody expects him to be celibate, but if he has to report his sexual encounters to a behavioral specialist, WHO KNOWS what words or attitudes will trigger more time. I don't see him doing well if he is living under a microscope. I mean just a few hours passed before he came out saying he did no wrong again. A shrink isn't going to hear that. At least not IMHO.

I wanted him to pay a price and atone, but damn, this could be bad. I trust shrinks about as much as an opposing attorney.

jc

If the NFL wanted to punish the Browns, they would have made the suspension 12 games so we would be stuck with him for another year.

Will be interesting to see how counseling goes for Watson when he won't acknowledge he did anything wrong.

What are the odds Brissett does well, Watson returns and is worse and we have a QB controversary again? Just feels like such a Browns thing to happen.

Hey Vers, if you don't like it leave, again. I mean that's what you are telling others in an indirect way. You hear that crap a lot these days. You see, I've been a Browns fan for as long as I can remember, so why should I leave because of DW? I can root for the team and not like him just fine. You just think he's great, you really wanted him, and now it's not what you thought it would be. The refs already told you their decision on leaving the convo in PF, but here you are for the umpteenth time asking for it to be moved because you dislike what others have to say. How about you do you, and the rest of us will do us. How about that? And I'm getting kind of tired of the sideways comments again. Me, Pit, and whoever else doesn't like DW on the team all have the right to feel that way, regardless of your feelings. Stop running your mouth on us every time somebody posts something negative. All you are doing is triggering more negative posts, can't you see that? I'll be damned if I tiptoe around your feelings because it is what it is. The Browns knew what they were doing, and they knew many fans would not be happy. If you have issues with that, go write a mean letter to Jimmy, or better yet DW, he's the real source of the drama.

I'm ready to give him a chance to redeem himself, but I'm not forgetting who he is or what he's done, period. Over time this hoopla will die down unless DW screws up again. Maybe you should take a breath and remember we are all Browns fans here, even us whinners or whatever you called us.

jc -

I just watched the presser with the Haslams and Berry.

1. Yowsers. Talk about uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable watching it.

2. You can tell which reporters are Baker fans ...Trotter, Reiter, Schudel. You can feel it oozing out of their pores.

3. You can tell who is the lowest of the low at their profession ... Grossi, MKC, and Ridenour. They don't care who the quarterback is or whether the Browns are good or bad, they just want drama. I actually think they prefer the Browns are bad. I believe Grossi has one of the lowest IQs I've ever witnessed.

4. You can tell which reporters are respected in their profession...Donovan. I can just imagine what he thinks of the others.

5. Jimmy was the most uncomfortable I've ever seen. Dee was also the most uncomfortable I've ever seen.

6. Berry was the only composed one. Now, if we can just get him to value receivers.

7. Deshaun did this group no favors by saying he was innocent in his presser before theirs. Half of the questions were because of this.

8. You have to tip your hat to Stefanski. He's been taking all the bullets for this crew because he's the only one that talks. With everything else he has on his plate, you have to recognize what a load he has been carrying.

What Watson should have said, “I put out a statement via the team and I’ll stand by that.”

What Watson did say, “LeRoy Jenkins!”

I watched the original video because I was going to post it and then language happened.

I agree w/all of this. It was an uncomfortable press conference. Even Jimmy and Dee, who can typically talk well enough to evade questions, had no ammo. Dee’s answer about just needing more therapy was pretty telling.

Of course, the hope is that this will all be over in short time and they can start winning fans back … but it was a bad PC for the team and Cleveland media

Deshaun Watson Doesn’t Get It, and Neither Do the Browns
Michael Rosenberg - Yesterday 4:07 PM

The team has forfeited its right to take moral stands down the road and shouldn’t count on its QB conducting himself with basic human decency.

Deshaun Watson still doesn’t get it, and the Browns don’t care if he does. He keeps acting like the wronged party, incapable of self-reflection, saying things he doesn’t mean and then admitting he doesn’t mean them, totally focused on advancing his own interests, and why shouldn’t he?

That’s what the Browns are paying him to do.

After the NFL and its players union settled Thursday on an 11-game suspension and $5 million fine, plus counseling, Watson walked back his phony half-apology before last week’s preseason game, saying “I’m going to continue to stand on my innocence” and that he apologized because “a lot of people that are triggered.” He said, “I have to do what’s best for Deshaun Watson at the end of the day,” like empathy is a character flaw. The Browns are suckers if they believe in him and frauds if they don’t. Which is worse?

Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam acted like not commenting on Watson’s conduct is some kind of principled position. Jimmy Haslam applauded himself for respecting the NFL’s disciplinary process as though he had a choice. He also said, “We as an organization realize how sensitive it is, how emotional it is,” which was infuriatingly condescending, the organizational equivalent of “we understand you’re mad.”

Dee Haslam kept saying “counseling is a process,” and Browns general manager Andrew Berry said, “The journey for personal growth, it’s a process.” Yeah, sure, but why did these processes have to start with a record-breaking fully guaranteed $230 million contract? Why did Jimmy Haslam say last week that Watson is “remorseful” when Watson made it very clear Thursday that he isn’t? How did the Haslams and Berry manage to stand up there when they clearly have no backbone?

The Browns are trying to rationalize their way to a championship, and they think we’re too gullible to see it.

When they acquired Watson in March, they did not insist he express a shred of contrition. They let Watson define their stance on Watson, and they still do. Never mind that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell called Watson’s actions “predatory.” Never mind that, in suspending Watson for six games, league disciplinary officer Sue L. Robinson wrote that his “pattern of behavior was egregious,” “predatory,” showed “reckless disregard,” and that “Watson engaged in sexual assault (as defined by the NFL)” against four massage therapists.

Hell, never mind anything Watson says. It’s all out of convenience, anyway.

In March, after the trade, he said he had no interest in settling the lawsuits that had been filed against him: “My intent is to clear my name as much as possible, and that’s what I’m focused on.” He has since settled 23 of them.

In March, he said, “I don’t have any regrets. ... The hardest part is having everyone come at me from different directions and not being able to speak about it because of the ongoing investigations.” Then, after Robinson cited his “lack of expressed” remorse as a contributing factor in suspending him for six games, he told the league’s TV network, “Look, I want to say that I’m truly sorry to all of the women that I have impacted in this situation. The decisions that I made in my life that put me in this position, I would definitely like to have back.”

By Thursday, Watson was back to clearing his name again.

“People deserve second chances,” Jimmy Haslam said. “I struggle a little bit: Is he never supposed to play again?”

That’s a good question. But let’s say, for argument’s sake, that Watson is supposed to play again. Why do the Browns have to completely kowtow to him?

Berry said people shouldn’t be “defined by the mistakes that they made,” but Watson says he didn’t make any mistakes. Dee Haslam said, “We can talk about Deshaun or we can talk about the major issues the country faces” with sexual assault, as though it’s one or the other. Jimmy Haslam said the Browns want Watson to be the best player he can be and “more importantly, be the best person he can be.” I did not realize the Browns are paying Watson $230 million to be his guidance counselor.

We have seen many instances of a team acquiring a player with a criminal or immoral past, acknowledging that the player had misbehaved but arguing that he deserved a chance to resume his career. This was not one of those cases. The Browns begged Watson to be the face of their franchise.

They sent three first-round picks, a third rounder and two fourth rounders to Houston for Watson and a sixth rounder. Then they negotiated with him like he was a coveted free agent instead of a disgraced player under contract. The Browns signed Watson to a deal that included a 2022 salary of $1.035 million, which would conveniently save Watson from losing too much money when he was suspended. Berry gave the not-very-believable explanation that they structured the contract this way for salary-cap reasons.

The Browns could say the contract was a condition of Watson waiving his no-trade clause. This only affirms how wrong they were to do it. The one outcome they couldn’t stomach was him going to another team, and so they let him dictate all the terms.

Organizations need to treat stars like valuable, intelligent parts of the operation. The Browns are treating Watson like a monarch. They could have made a public apology as a condition of his signing, even if it was a vague one. Instead, when Watson used his introductory press conference to say he did nothing wrong and had no regrets, the Browns verbally supported that contention.

“We felt good about Deshaun as a person,” Berry said then. “We felt good about what we learned about the cases where we felt comfortable bringing him into the building. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t have made the trade.”

Five months have passed. The Browns look worse than ever. They are counting on Watson conducting himself with basic human decency when he returns, and also on him playing at an MVP level. But what if he doesn’t?

Have the Browns considered that their own city will turn on them if Watson is just pretty good and the team struggles? Have they thought about how Watson, who was beloved by fan bases in Houston and at Clemson, might handle getting booed at home? Or what they are doing to the rest of the organization, from employees who are appalled that Watson is the face of the franchise to the poor social media staffer stuck with writing “do we want people to read this or not?” headlines such as this?

The Browns have forfeited the right to take moral stands down the road. They have signaled to their roster that misconduct will be tolerated, maybe ignored completely. They are building their team around a player who says we shouldn’t judge his innocence “just because settlements and things like that happen.”

Jimmy Haslam says the team is comforted by Watson’s “track record prior to these events,” before quickly adding, “I’m not at all minimizing the ‘this.’” But, of course, the Browns are minimizing the allegations against Watson, because Watson insists upon it. The Haslam's might own the Browns, but Watson owns them now. They can only hope he treats them well. Given his … um, track record, I wouldn’t count on it.

I agree. There looks to be a bit of a break in the relationship. I am beginning to wonder if the move to Watson was more Berry and Haslam going along but he had reservations?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=b4f7fa6d2dfb45b8a426e719d9f335eb

Wow, Mike Florio says Sam Darnold would be better than Brissett for the Browns. Wow

I agree. Wow. I mean if Florio says so

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peo...45b8a426e719d9f335eb&category=foryou

More fallout

Sam Darnold is 10x worse than Jacoby Brisseft. Darnold should not be in the NFL.

I was listening to something from Carolina's camp yesterday or the day before. They were talking about how since 2018, Baker has the most interceptions of any qb in the NFL and Darnold was 2nd. That should make Panther fans feel all warm and fuzzy.

He needs to do what you follow your first statement moving forward. Hopefully time will ease the sting of yesterday's comments. I will say that he can't directly apologize to the women by saying he did something wrong, because I think there is one unsettled legal case. Also, that admission would open the doors to other women wanting to file suits.

I'd hate to have DW's lawyer bills...only one other's legal bills I'd most not want to have.....GO Browns!!!

Darnold is way worse than Baker. I mean you could see it on the field the last four years as well, but them being on the same team has really highlighted it. I thought Baker would cave under the pressure of the QB comp, but it's Darnold that has. I've been following it closely. He's really bad.

I agree that Darnold is worse than Baker. However, neither is the answer.

Haters just gotta hate.

This is the problem when leaders trying to defend something that isn’t defendable, they end up in contradictions and suddenly they don’t even know why and what it is they’re trying to defend.

When will these people ever learn?

J/c

FWIW I’d rather have Brissett than Darnold. And I’d probably rather have Jimmy G than Brissett (but only slightly).

But all 3 stink in the scheme of things lol

Aren't you the same guy that preached for years that anything short of a Superbowl win is a failed season? And you think the browns paid 230 million dollars for five failed seasons?

Poor DW. It was someone elses fault that he said he was sorry that those women were triggered and he was innocent. I didn't really need to put that in purple did I?

You can't seem to comprehend the huge difference in rooting for a team and being a fan *fanatic*.


Some people are willing to point out the very facts of Sue Robinson's ruling, you remember, the one you claimed you would accept? Rather than man up and accept what all went down you wish to blame the press, the league and everyone else but watson. Then you accuse others of creating drama. As your above post plainly points out, you've been doing more whining about this than anyone on this board. You've been wrong about this from day 1 and you love to try to deny that by shifting the blame on everyone but yourself.

Watson was found to be a predator and a liar. You hate that. That's a you issue.

I'm just glad we got rid of an immature QB for a more mature one for only 240 mill, -11 games, a season accrued, and 3 fewer draft picks.

Superbowl baby!

You can tell who tries to shift the blame on everyone else for what watson said.

We agree on this much.

I don't type in purple. My comment was more along the lines of WOW, then making fun of florio. I don't want Darnold.

Did Deshaun Watson dupe NFL into thinking he was accepting responsibility?

Last Friday, with a settlement of the Deshaun Watson‘s disciplinary case suddenly a possibility, the Browns quarterback for the first time apologized to the women “impacted” by his behavior. Immediately after resolving the situation on Thursday, Watson issued a statement in which he accepted accountability for his decisions.

Then, he basically said, “Psych!”

Like a criminal defendant who signs a plea agreement before proclaiming he didn’t do it, Watson insisted that he’s innocent during an ill-advised press conference. His agent, David Mulugheta, after deleting a tweet that attacked the ruling of Judge Sue L. Robinson that Watson didn’t appeal, tweeted that Watson has always stated that he is innocent.

That’s not what Judge Robinson found. In the decision that the NFLPA urged the NFL to accept, she found that Watson violated the Personal Conduct Policy in three different ways, by committing four instances of non-violent sexual assault. She found that his behavior was “egregious” and “predatory.” And now, after agreeing to a deal that extended her punishment by five games and added a fine of $5 million, Watson and Mulugheta have retreated to the long-held insistence that Watson didn’t do anything wrong.

The league has not yet responded to an email from PFT posing the simple question of whether Watson’s remarks constitute a violation of the terms of the settlement. Maybe he hasn’t violated the deal yet, but the “I didn’t do it” attitude doesn’t bode well for one specific aspect of the terms of the deal.

As noted by Adam Schefter of ESPN.com, as part of an inherently contradictory stream of tweets and retweets that both carry water for Watson and dump it on his head, “Watson has to comply with [evaluation] and treatment recommendations of a third-party behavioral expert to be reinstated,” and his “reinstatement is contingent upon his compliance with the treatment plan.”

“If he doesn’t comply, his reinstatement could be delayed, plus further discipline,” Schefter says.

The evaluation and treatment should include frank, direct questions for Watson as to whether he truly accepts responsibility for his behavior. Whether he acknowledges that he engaged in non-violent sexual assault. Judge Robinson found that his “categorical denial” wasn’t truthful. She also found that his claim that he never got an erection during a massage was flat-out false, given that multiple massage therapists who vouched for him acknowledged that he became aroused during massages that they provided to him.

That’s why we shouldn’t assume Watson automatically will be back in Week 13 at Houston. If/when the person providing him with evaluation and/or treatment plays the video from today’s press conference and Watson doesn’t have a persuasive explanation for his decision to insist on his innocence, it’s possible that Watson won’t receive the appropriate certification to return and play.

It’s not some small issue. As noted by Schefter, the league viewed Watson’s apology from last Friday as an “important first step.” Today, he took three steps back.

Our guess? If he doesn’t make a clear and unequivocal public statement of responsibility before Week 13, there’s a chance he won’t be playing for the Browns when they visit the Texans.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...hinking-he-was-accepting-responsibility/

I don't care at this point .... time to move on. The NFL sought and imposed a much stiffer penalty than the one Sue Robinson handed down. What happens now is all about what Watson does moving forward not what he's said or not said previously.

Watson gets judged moving forward on his actions and words ... he clearly has not apologized or taken ownership for his actions which may impact or restrict any progress counselling and help that he has been instructed to undertake. Let's see if the man can move on and past these events, lets see if he can deal with these same questions being asked by every team, let's see if he treats the Browns better than he treated the Texans as an organization.

So what he said yesterday makes no difference because "it's in the past"? Really? Yesterday?

It's not as bad as or worse than what he has been found guilty of. The only thing it did was verify that he doesn't own his actions or think he did anything wrong. I think that's a problem - but no, it changes nothing.

I think it will for the NFL. Can you imagine them letting him play again having said this? I understand that there is still a case pending so it constrains what he can say. But what he said yesterday were things he can't say. I think his only choice is to do anything and everything he can do to settle this final lawsuit. Unless of course more lawsuits come to the surface. Because if after his original 11 game suspension he still doesn't take full accountability for his actions I can't see the league allowing him to take the field. Taking accountability is the first step he must take in order to move forward in any positive way. So far he can't even do that. So yes, it's a big deal. It's merely a continuation of what he has done.

It's a concern that he hasnt learned the lesson and may continue the behavior that got him in trouble to start with. Since it isn't his fault anyway.

Maybe we can take up a collection to send a few posters to school to learn Massage Therapy so we don't have to worry about anything else being reported in the future. /s