Cut our FB and pick up a blocking TE. Nothing wrong with that.

Great, now I can’t get that Cher song out of my head.

If only you could turn back time, and not read that post

lol

I Believe he could Strong Enough and look for A Different Kind of Love Song.

I’m just glad even one of you got that reference

Haha 😂

Mike Garafolo

@MikeGarafolo
The #Browns are signing veteran OL Joe Haeg, source says. With RT Jack Conklin working his way back from knee surgery, Haeg provides depth at tackle and he can play guard, too. Haeg met with the #Raiders last week but heads to Cleveland instead.

Pretty good signing.

According to PFF:

Overall: 67.5
Pass blocking: 74.8
Run blocking: 55.1

Again, the grading scale is:

90-100: Elite
85-89: Pro Bowler
70-84: Starter
60-69: Backup
0-59: Replaceable

Snaps at Positions:

LT: 89
LG: 43
C: 0
RG: 78
RT: 94
TE: 3

Decent grades, especially for a backup. Versatile guy who can move to both tackle and guard positions. My only concern is the Steeler OL is horrible, so why didn't they keep him?

Wonder if that TE: 3 is prophetic.

I looked at his career(Jesse James) so far. Not much accomplished.

All those guys we had at camp must have been bad because James is a bubble player at this point.

My real concerns are Winfrey and Togiai. Elliott could be ok. Bryan is average at best. So, playing these draft picks at this point is just justifying their draft selection as developing players.

I understand developing players. However, I don't see why we don't have a veteran backup. It looks we are inviting teams to run up the gut. In addition the base defense is 4-2-5. So it forces us use a 4-3 on first down. That takes away from our strength to use nickle and dime.

If we could count on DT we would not have to do that. So, it bugs me. Winfrey and Togiai need to show more than they have.

Agreed. Suh isn't what he was but I think he could help us.

Sheldon is out there.

Maybe he burnt bridges. I am not understanding the DT position. Average will do if you rotate average and keep them fresh.

The issue I see if there is an injury or you use Winfrey and Togiai in rotation. You are going from average to below average.

I am ok at receiver because there is TE's and backs you can throw to and I like Bell, DPJ, and Cooper.

I am not ok with what I have seen from Winfrey and Togiai.

I halfway thought Winfrey should have been cut and added to the PS

Not a fan of this signing. I mean, it's not going to hurt anything......but, he is not very good at all.

From what I saw Bryan was pretty good. I might drop the "at best' and say he is average. I am good with average. As for James, who knows? I always thought of him as more of a receiving threat. I think went to Miami and caught a good number of passes there. How he has been used as a pro I couldn't say.

j/c…

The Browns added a qb in Mund.

They added a TE James. And a OT Haeg. And they released Forbes.

They must feel alright about DT. They have looked at this position group since spring till now.

So the conclusion must be they like what they have.

We will find out as teams try to run the ball on us.

So much for him being one of my sleeper boom players on another thread. I thought he might become a ST ace.

Nixon could be an interesting add.

I thought the same Peen

So much for us getting him to the PS

But it is good for Forbes, right?

No doubt. Regular pay is way better than PS pay.

He was stuck behind a deep OL, but he was given ample opportunity to distinguish himself. Good luck to him.

Now he is with Hank

Trick question! It is bad for him cause he won't get his ring this year when we do!

I always liked Preston Williams from Miami. I’m not sure he has the speed needed, but he played well when I’ve seen him before

Possibly. At this point in his career I think he is pretty happy to be an active player on a roster. I would guess being on the practice squad would get you a ring if that happened.

That would be pretty cool to find out. I know it is up to the owners to decide but I would think there are some pretty basic guidelines most owners follow on who all gets a real ring?

Just to follow up my question...it looks like the league approves around $6000 per ring for 150 rings. Owners can add to the cost if they wish. So it looks like a team has 150 rings to distribute.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=ab78215510584b09b1adbc5fef17a345

Ok...some had nice things to say.

I wouldn't expect players to trash the guy in public.

I think it might be more wise to actually read JJ's comments independently of the author's commentary that prefaces and/or follows each quote.

From the article this guy pulled from.

"“I wouldn’t say we took sides. We just wanted to see our guys happy, either side. At a point, Baker decided he didn’t want to be here anymore or X, Y, Z. He put stuff out there so, I mean, hey, it’s a team game, but there’s an individual aspect to it. Unfortunately, guys come and go, so we just have to deal with it.”

What is missing here is the time in which Baker 'decided' he wanted out, but as I mentioned earlier before, Baker and the Browns (I'd specifically suggest Stefanski) were done with one another long before the Watson stuff came into the fold.

https://www.brownszone.com/2022/09/...field-looks-like-he-has-confidence-back/
Here is the article Jasper Jones plucked from.

j/c...

j/c:

Did you really think they would allow anything positive said about Mayfield stand on its own? Yeah, me either.

We might draft one that early. Or, we might look around in FA.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=05881f742aa246f9bdf084b32f352005

Thanks for sharing some positive news.

The last day of Talk before we get to See.

I don't know why, don't have any stats or proof, but something in me, makes me feel this season is going to be a train wreck.

I feel the same way, I just don't have the confidence in this team and coaching staff like I should.

You both have the right to feel that way. I've been saying right along 6-8 wins and last place in the North. I think the 8 was a little high. Until our Browns prove us wrong we have the right to feel as we do.

Until the Browns prove us wrong, do others have the right to not trash the Browns on almost every post we make?

Sure you do. You can and should post all the rah-rah positives you can find. I know I and others appreciate that. But at the same time, others should be able to express their doubts without being constantly harangued for their efforts.

Watch Woods presser for today and tell me you walk away with any kind of confidence about this coaching staff. He was asked several questions about preparation where the answers made me feel like the staff doesn't really know how to prepare.

That trainwreck feeling? Yeah, I got it after watching that.

Please, please KS out coach someone.

Like I said, I don't know what it is that gives me this feeling. Up until about a week ago, I felt it would be a decent season, maybe sneak into the wildcard if some things go our way. But sometime in the this last week, I just started getting that sinking feeling.

Could be some concerns with the Browns defense........

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-cb-jimmy-moreland-visiting-232833282.html

We need depth at CB. Our CB's are hurt a lot. You can't count on Ward and Williams for a full season. There is always good reason to have a bad feeling about this team.

Thanks for the Woods post. One part grabbed me when he said "you have to stop everything." We are complicating things, I suspect. This didn't inspire confidence in me. I want to see it on the field, of course. Hope I am wrong and we blow them up, but we have not been like BB and the Patsys who will try to take one or two of your best strengths away. Third down conversions and stops are not a defensive strength. Maybe that will change.

Go, Browns!

I am not going to watch the video, but I do have some facts about last year's defense.

The Browns were 5th best in yards allowed.

The Browns were 14th in points allowed.

The Browns were 2nd in yards per play.

Now, think about how many turnovers we had on offense and how many short drives because the O could not stay on the field. I think the D started off slow, but got progressively better as the year progressed. I think they played damn good defense for much of the year and I am not getting the bad vibe that others are.

I don't think that our defense was the primary issue last season, I think that Baker's injuries were far more impactful.

I agree with you that the defense, for the most part, did play better as the year progressed. We had 4 or 5 games that were absolutely unacceptable, but other than those, I think we were in the 20's, or better, in points allowed each week.

I also think that our special teams were only so-so, as they have been for years.

WHY AREN'T WE BLITZING!?!?

That's a very misleading tweet and "factoid" ....

Bills didn't Blitz but CONSTANTLY - like every time Stafford dropped back - got pressure on him without the need to bring an extra rusher. And maybe that stat is correct and they only ever rushed 4 all night but it didn't feel like that. It's not about how often you blitz it is about how often you get pressure on the QB.

j/c...

That’s the point. Get pressure with four. Do that and you are gold (especially when you have the deepest defensive backfield in the league).

Easier said than done. Of course, that is ideal. It's just hard to do. I do remember the Panthers having a front four several years ago that allowed them to only rush four most of the time. Their defense was very good in large part due to that fact. There just haven't been a ton of teams that can effectively do that in recent memory.

Too bad for Greedy. He’s incredibly injury prone with his soft tissue stuff

Garrett gets pressure like 20% of the time by himself, so that’s a great start.

Holy Crap! Is it a hammy or is it that nerve problem in his shoulder again?

Agreed. He looks good at times when he is on the field. I believe at this point of the season he can come back after missing 4 games. But no indication of the severity of this injury.

This is why we drafted Emerson.

From the article:


Btw--------Happy Birthday!

j/c:

This isn't a doom and gloom post. In fact, it's the opposite. I think Myles is going to have a monster year. I think he is at a point where he is supremely confident. I think he has put in the work. I think he wants to be recognized as the best. I think he wants to win Defensive MVP. I think he wants to leave a lasting legacy as one of the best to ever do it. And I think it starts this Sunday!

I watched Von Miller last night. Couldn't help thinking what it would be like to have him at one end and Myles at the other and move Javeon inside WOW!!!

Von Miller looked great last night!

Of course - he, Clowney, MG and JOK would be insane. No idea if we were interested in him but I know OBJ was nice enough to tell him to stay the hell away from Cleveland.

Only posting because it is where I went to school

Ya homer...

Myles needs to finish seasons strong. He kind of disappears from an impact play perspective the last four or five weeks of the season.

He will win DPOY if he can do that and the Browns are relevant. There's only four guys who really have a shot at it...Myles, Donald, Watt, and Parsons. I believe the last two years it was Myles to lose through like week 12. And he lost it both times.

His buddy Baker gifted it to Watt last year by not being able to read a defense, call a protection, understand a coverage, and be able to get the ball to his hot reads. Another reason Myles is miffed I'm sure.

Yeah, that game was pathetic. Baker complaining about the play calling being too conservative. His fans saying we needed to open things up. Well, Stefanski did open things up where Baker was supposed to make reads like a top qb makes each week. He couldn't do it and then threw yet another temper tantrum and took his ball and went home.

Yeah...if only Baker would have taken the effort to block Watt rather than leaving a former DT at LT on an island with an All-Pro ED.

You once again brought up Baker on a thread NOT AT ALL dedicated to Baker. Shocking.

j/c…

Love it.

If you don't love Chubb you are are on the other side.

That was awesome! Thanks.

I love that Nick Chubb hired a film crew. That is hilarious.

That was pretty damn cool.

I hope that behind the scenes this team is pumped and ready to go. The most non vocal athlete in Cleveland sports history is releasing Instagram montages.

I hope it means something and we'll see it on the field on Sunday.

I think all the negativity from the Watson and Baker drama has galvanized the team. Even Chubb was talking the other day about "it's us against the world." I think this team is ready to prove the world wrong and shut some people up.

I like it when the tv personalities are all against us.

It bugs me a bit when Browns fans are that way. But so be it.

I have thought all along we will win this game and do so convincingly.

He should have said, "Haslam put us in the position that it's us against the world."

That’s a cool video from Chubb

Ty, That's my RB!

Go Browns!!!

This is a pretty large spread with a backup QB. I get it is a home game and the Jets, but still.....

Joe Flacco.

I follow the Jets pretty closely. It's become a little bit of a hobby of mine since we took Mayfield over Darnold and Stefanski over Saleh. I also have a couple of close buddies who are Jets fans.

Let me just say I wouldn't have been surprised if the spread was bigger. The GM has done a decent job of transforming the roster but made the one error you can't make at QB with Wilson. And it looks like Saleh wasn't ready and the staff he built is pretty bad. They are a pretty bad team and organization right now. I don't know that Douglas and Saleh will survive the year.

We should win this game easily.

Elijah Moore is a playmaker. And they have good receiving RBs … I dont know much about their defense thouhg

Jinxed it.

1-1 heading into a Thursday night game.

And injured OTs (Becton and Brown)

Myles will probably/hopefully take the team sack record.

Good point. I forgot they also lost Brown.

Any news on other injuries/concerns with the Jets?

Backup factor canceled out?

Can he return punts?

It would be nice. I know nothing about this dude.

Herb drew the short straw.

No punt returning news in the reports I just found. Felton scares the crap out of me back there.

Herb at least saved us a turnover yesterday. I really do hope we can find a DB or RB or something that can return a punt

I have to say I've not been a big Herb Miller fan but he got mad points yesterday for saving that fumble.

It's sickening to me that somebody on the coaching staff thinks that guy is a punt returner. Felton is a notch above Schwartz as for a guy who shouldn't even be on the team. He brings nothing.

He has not done a lot he he’s still young. I agree with those who opined that he can’t track a punt. It sure doesn’t look like he can, but he can make a couple moves if he gets a chance.

He should pay a guy to kick punts to him in his spare time.

I bet miller ends up back on the PS

More like Nike hired a production crew.

That was not Nike level production.

No? The Swoosh logo was prominent in that. I could be wrong, though, maybe Chubb really did hire a crew.

He has probably done that. I am a baseball player. I have thought about hitting the guy fly balls. Tracking a baseball is harder. In football you can usually settle to a depth that the punter can kick the ball. In baseball you more or less have to settle somewhere in between. You also usually have to move laterally a greater distance to catch a baseball. In football, the mark on the hash and a punters preference in which direction he likes to kick the ball comes in to play to some degree Also, in football the ball travels at a slower pace. With a baseball it moves faster giving the player less time to make the mental calculation to decide on what point they need to get to in order to make the catch.

Whatever the problem is, we don't need a trainee back there looking like a deer in the headlights, circling around trying to field the ball. Like I said, if the ball is kicked right at him he does fine, but once he has to move on his feet and start calculating latitude and longitude the guy is in trouble.

Maybe it is the way he moves to the ball. He seems to be a choppy runner. If his head is bouncing around while trying to track a punt, the ball is going to look like it is bouncing around in the sky. It's hard to catch if the ball looks like it is bouncing up and back, side to side while you are trying to get to the catch point.

The best 50-yard logo in the NFL.....easily.

Matches with my 1950's wool felt letterman jacket.

I have a cool sweatshirt with the brownie on it so im happy

The Keebler Browns.

I don't like anything to do with the elf. Ugh.

Me either.

Communist.

Ultimately it doesn’t effect me, but I do find the elf embarrassingly weird as a football team mascot. I don’t buy gear though so in the end it doesn’t matter. What little Browns gear I do own I won at the BrownsBacker club when I was going out to see the games. I have Season Ticket now. So my old non elf hats and shirts will do just fine.

Love it.

Rodgers has a record as a punt returner so that’s good.

Looks like he has returned 89 punts in his 5-year career. He's averaged around 9.5 yards for his career. 29 returns last year w/20 being fair caught. 5 career fumbles including 2 last year.

After Grant got hurt, we picked up Easop Winston. I don't think he had any preseason playing time as a PR.

Unless Rodgers can somehow break the 53 as a #5 WR, he's not going to be our new PR (imo).

I think we are stuck with Felton for the next couple of games unless Bell gets a shot.

Can't afford to put DPJ back there.

There has got to be some short, balding red-heads (with big ears) that find that logo offensive. Stay tuned...

The fact Modell hated it and removed it as a logo/mascot not too long after buying the Browns makes me like it even more.

The Jets board is currently making fun of us for it right now.

They should have put a big dog face at midfield.

A lot of football fans are making fun of the logo...I'm not really concerned. Just glad our helmet isn't there.

Yeah if DPJ were to get injured on a punt return, that would be devastating to our rather shallow WR core.

I understand what you guys are saying about DPJ, but we don't have a lot of room for error. Like almost every year since our return, we don't have a qb who can elevate the team. We need to play really great around him. The roster has to elevate the qb, like they did in 2020. The difference is that the OL isn't quite up to that year's level. Conklin returning could change that, but we are going to miss Tretter. We can't afford to be turning the ball over by fumbling punts. We need to win the field position battle and grind out victories w/guts and toughness.

Guys like Antonio Brown--in his prime--have returned punts. Hell, I don't even care if DPJ calls a fair catch every freaking time. Just no fumbles that flips the field on us.

I guess other possibilities would be Ford or D'Ernest.

For whatever reason, D'Ernest was inactive game 1, but he did some return duties for us a couple years back. Less than spectacular, but I don't remember any fumbles. Might be wrong. This option seems very unlikely since he would also have to be our RB3 for the game.

Then, what do you do with Ford?

If Felton still looks creepy back there, I say give one of the young guys a chance (Bell or Ford) in the second half.

That’s fine. I’m making fun of them for being Jets fans with a dumb team chant

The ELF LOGO looks Weak.
The Elf Logo also looks effeminate.

The Dude is wearing stocking shoes and a wool hat. IT's a Football logo.
Seriously @uestion how any marketing or ownership group could be so clueless as to push this logo onto the fans.

I don't get paid by the team to have to support their mostly undefendable decisions.

Finally, (for now) If Western Pennsylvania... had carte blanche that they had to design a logo for their rival the Cleveland Browns, and it could be whatever western Pennsylvania wanted, ... but it had to be, at least somewhat not vulgar,

And they were given 20 choices, I think the "ELF" could have made the top I0.

I'm saying if YOUR ENEMY was designing your logo and it was your enemies choice, then Your enemies top ten choices could include the "ELF"
What does it inspire? Humor? Mockery?
And if you want to react with the opinion, of , Aw come on give it a chance, I think that is what a Kindergarten Teacher might say.

It should be a Football LOGO.
Let the Kindergarten Teachers do what they do... Holiday asemblies.

Would have loved to see the Dawg and not an.....Elf.

If we think Ford can return punts/kicks then we should try it. or DPJ. Felton can’t be the guy moving forward.

The Brownie Elf, and Fievel (the animated mouse) from American Tail the movie, I986 and I99I, have Way too much in common in appearance.
The Elf's Belt Buckle looks like a giant shining number ZERO. Man o-sakes. Why?

The ANTI - intimidating logo

Yeah I agree...the return game needs cleaned up, and I'm not sure anyone on the roster is that guy. And I can remember several stars shining as returners (you nailed a good one with Antonio Brown, Pacman Jones comes to mind, and Joey Galloway) From what I remember last year with DPJ, he was rather mediocre too...I can see us shuffling around others practice squads to find someone, espcially if Felton continues to struggle or loose grasp of the ball again.

DPJ is not a good returner, but he’s probably better than felton. With felton I feared a turnover every time.

To me, just secure the ball and fair catch it every time. Don’t even try to return it because you can either fumble or have a penalty. The possible 8-10 return yards has never been worth the risk to me

You have season tickets now?

Maybe. Just because they are running backs doesn't mean they can catch a punt. Also, catching a kickoff is far easier than catching a punt. You don't have near the immediate pressure from the other team, the end over end action is easier to catch than the spiral action on a punt, and punts have much more direction change horizontally through the air then does a kickoff. Kickoffs are more or less aimed in a direction. Punts are aimed but they are also spun in a ditrction.

It just looks to me like the team is trying to justify Feltons position on the team. He is the 4th best back, actually 5th if you count Kelly, and he isn't a wide receiver. He is just a drafted player Berry isn't willing to cut, so the coaching staff has to find something for the guy to do. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Prifer wouldn't stake his job on Felton being his punt returner.

He's the sixth best if you count Kelly.

Also I'm pretty sure Portland meant DirecTV Sunday Ticket.

I agree we don't have a good punt returner on the team after Grant's injury. I seem to remember that at least DPJ can catch the ball. Did he fumble when he was back there? Fielding punts is pretty hard for most people. I wasn't good at it. I much preferred returning kicks. Felton has a difficult time tracking the ball. Do you remember the first punt. He misjudged it and came charging up late and made a sliding--almost diving--catch. It was millimeters from being fumbled. On the one he fumbled, he once again misjudged the ball, finally got to it and then dropped it. His body language screamed lack of confidence. We just can't afford mistakes w/our JB at qb.

I agree.

j/c...

Felton has returned 37 punts for the Browns and never lost a fumble.

I know it wasn't real pretty Sunday, but I don't think the sky is falling. He's probably the best man for the job right now.

Well Berry addressed the Kicker issue. He tried to address the return issue with Jakeem Grant - I'm surprised between August and now that we didn't go find a replacement for Grant ... it's Nervy watching Felton and you have to believe low cost options might have been available for a year's rental. $30M under the cap ...

It looked to me as if they had Ford back there to return kickoffs. But i dont think any if them were returnable

Indeed...Kelly is the 5th. I counted him but didn't count felton as 6th.

Ok...sunday ticket...i get it.

I am pretty sure there are a lot of free agents right now that would come cheap and be better than Felton.

He returned one for 29 yards.

Yeah Ford had one return for an above average result (like 28-30 yards IIRC)

Already having an MVP type season.

Really just clicking and not being critical of anybody, but kick-off returns are pretty meaningless because 90% of the kicks are never returned. The NFL doesn't want that because that is where a lot of injuries occurred. Then the ones that are returned are low percentage because those are sky kicks where the coverage unit has that extra second or two to cover. Those are the kicks where it isn't uncommon to see the returner tackled on the 18 yard line.

He has to. If he doesn't the Browns are in real trouble. Just like last Sunday.

A bit of a hat tip to Tommy Flynn and a throwback to yesteryear?!?

Does anyone see this as a precursor to re-branding away from the Dawg and into the Elf? Does the Dawg Pound become Middle-Earth?

I'd have zero issue sitting in a section called Mirkwood or The Shire.

At least those elves were warrior-like. Unlike the Keebler elf that is our mascot. Might as well call the dog pound ‘the cookie jar’.

How embarrassing. Lol. Only the Browns. Love them but geez.

It looks......glorious.

"It's a marketing world." - Jimmy Haslam

Never understood the love for the Elf. It's hideous. They were laughing at it on one of the morning shows earlier today. I mean, each to their own........but that is the best they can do?

Bad Andy and the Noid were marketing ploys by Dominos Pizza. They both sucked. Bad Andy lasted only a few commercials before they dumped it. The Noid was annoying as hell.

Marketing has to not suck to work.
Just sayin.

While we are divided on Brownie, this is something we might all get behind.

I understand the history, but........

Oh, man.

I think the only way to make that thing at least somewhat palatable would be a deep playoff run.

Maybe not even then.

Spida Mitchell gets it!

Yes, we all are fans of this one

Definitely. At least as far as merchandising goes.

Everyone (not literally everyone) wanted the Browns Equipment Elf hoodie Stefanski was wearing last season as well as the jacket Deshaun Watson was wearing when he first arrived and was touring the facility. The jacket sold out immediately.

I understand that. But hey, if you can sell some gear.....

Haslam can only change the uniform every five years. So far he has been doing exactly that. Why? Marketing and selling gear. This is no different. He just has more latitude in changing logos. If it doesn't sell it will just be on to the next marketing campaign. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

j/c

At least they could have drawn up the elf to actually hold the ball like one should.

Chubb and and Hunt were in the backfield together 5 times last games, I'm not sure that increases this week against the Jets. I say that because it would be a waste to show additional wrinkles in the offense against the Jets. Save it for the Steelers game which will be a needed division win.

Good point. I also am hoping that we motion Hunt to the slot on occasion. I think he can be an effective receiver from there. Nothing major, just a few times in most games. It's a different look and might lead to a safety or WLBer having to account for him and that could help open things up for Chubb.

I hate that I was inspired to make this….

Meet the Pancake Maker. Scroll down to see two of them.

Trade him while his value’s high!!

…ah sorry, my mid-2000s browns PTSD kicked in for a moment there.

Embrace the Dawg and the Dawg Pound.

The elf has to go.

I don't get the elf at all. I mean brownie the elf. Com'on man.

Put Swagger's mug in the middle of the field. Embrace the dawg for crying out loud.

R
It’s like the Browns ordered Legolas from wish.com.

I don’t want to make these. But I can’t help myself.

100!

Why didn't they leave it up to the players. As a player do you want an elf representing your team or a big, mean dog? I mean, come on. I have to the think the players think it's dumb as hell to have an elf on the center of their field.

This sounds like an idea cooked up by the idiot son in law.

I feel like I almost can't watch on Sunday because of the elf.

As a player I'd have a hard time playing with that thing on the field.

Stop the madness.

The more I look at it the more mortified I get.

🤣

The fans had a choice of four different field designs to choose from and this design won.

I voted for this absolutely glorious field design!

Thank Swagger Jr.'s inexcusable mishap in his father's funeral photo for the change to the elf.

I also voted for this field design.

I love the Brownie logo. That one in particular. I have a 50's era wool felt letterman jacket that sports that Brownie. It's not from the 50's. I bought it from Ebbetts Field Flannels maybe going on 20 years ago. It's sharp. When I wear it to games it get's a lot of comments.

Would this mean that Haslam is Sauron and in search of One Ring to Rule us All?

I don’t mind the elf, nor do I think it’s all that important.

I hope most people are polite enough to utter them after you are out of ear shot?

LOL........just messin' w/you, man.

Milk, can you post the four choices?

Clean up the mental mistakes and we are gold.

That's my thinking as well.

I'm hoping not to see a single play this weekend where you have multiple secondary guys looking at each other like the other guy screwed up.

I'm OK with the logo, but honestly, the logo could be Witchiepoo from HR Puffinstuff for all I care. I am over 60 years old, been following the Browns since 1969 and just want to see them in a Superbowl. I don't care if they wear brownies on their helmets, get me a dad blame Superbowl appearance.

on the offensive side of the ball

No Elf.


]

I did too. I just want something different.

For 20 years of the new browns we’ve wanted to be dogs (dawgs). The issue is every year the team comes out and play like ankle biter dawgs.

A few more clutch kicks and he would be worth a first or second. I'm so happy to have him. I hope he spends a career here and ends up better than Phil.

We don’t have the right QB to do that.

Here you go Rishuz

The last time the Browns won a championship the Elf was the official logo. Since 1964 the owner who's name I shall not mention ditched it.

Outside of the elf, I’ve always liked when we’ve included the red AFC logo on the field like that. Don’t know why.

No Dawg option? This election was rigged I tell you.

This is glorious and would have looked badass.

I don't think I have really liked any type of logo the Browns have had. Let's face it, it's hard for anything to look good in orange and dark brown.

I don't know man. I've grown to love those colors. I think they look great together.

Speak for yourself, I look fantastic in orange and brown.

Right? Two elf options and two helmet options?? I would have voted for that elf as well.

Give me the mischievous elf that looks like it might shank you if you turn your back on it as opposed to that cuddly bull mastiff that will drool all over you and lick you to death!

#GPODAWUND

rish...your post above reminded me of a post I made in the thread "Browns vs Panthers: Keys to the game"...

I WROTE THE FOLLOWING LINK

Quote

I'm more concerned about the Browns defense being prepared, especially in the defensive backfield.

IMO, the Browns defensive backfield must avoid blown assignments due to confusion concerning pass coverage can make the difference between a win..or a loss. It might be a good idea for our defensive coaches to keep the Browns pass coverage as simple as possible to avoid coverage mistakes.

RISH...FOR SOME REASON, YOU FELT COMPELLED TO RESPOND WITH THIS...

Quote

Do you think Depo will have the team ready to go?

rish...(w/likes from scotty and oobs)...do you folks trust that DEPO will have the Browns defensive secondary ready against the JETS..?



At least rish is beginning to realize that our secondary does have an issue with "multiple secondary guys looking at each other like the other guy screwed up"...

Despite my username (that I first came up with at age 13 LOL), I’m not a huge fan of the dawgs moniker. It served its purpose years ago, but I’m OK with the elf thing for a change up on the field

I hope Depo has them ready to go. I don't want to see anymore blown assignments.

I look fantastic in anything....or nothing at all.

Totally agree.

j/c...

Happy voting!

So happy 'Who Let The Dogs Out?' is not an option.

The dawg has outlived the moment.

I agree...just not sure the elf would be my favorite replacement.

But the 70+ year old elf hasn’t?

Does an elf make a sound when it's fired up?

like yellow and pink tile in a bathroom, it's hung around long enough to be back in style

High-pitch cackling?

It'll take some practice to coordinate that for large numbers of people.

Not a fan of the scrawny, janky looking elf. Might as well be the Cleveland Kindergarten Doodles. The fingers on each hand are drastically different shapes.

The constipated pilgrim with birth defects look in the middle of the field really doesn't work for me.

I'd rather have the Brown "B" in the white football than that travesty.

Paul "The Great and Powerful" DePodesta will have them readier than ready. All we need is courage!

I have no idea what people expect. In every game in the NFL you will have plays where the coverage is blown. It's like expecting a batter to bat 1000 to expect otherwise. The question is will the QB be in position to see them and exploit them? For those who watch NFL games other than the Browns we see it all the time. They'll show replays of WR's wide open with nobody around them. They'll either show where the QB finds them and exploits that or where the QB was looking somewhere else and didn't see it. But it happens.

Wide receivers can get open without blown coverage. Also, what I’m talking about is blown coverages for huge gains like we had against the Panthers. Those an unacceptable.

Exactly. I thought it was self explanatory.

Indeed it was.

j/c...

Those four songs are about as good as the four choices for the field.

I guess Tiny Dancer works. Tiny Brownie can dance along w/such a rockin' song.

Maybe our pathetically wimpy looking Keebler brownie is tougher than I thought.


I’m back in!! Go Browns!!



…kidding. The elf is ridiculous. In a rare moment of agreement with THROW, it’s as though our opponents made the elf our mascot to berate and belittle us.

Saying blown coverages happen in every NFL game is also self explanatory and true. But never mind that huh? Whether those blown coverages get exploited depends on whether the QB recognizes them and is looking in the direction of those blown coverages. None of this is complicated.

Tiny Dancer at a football game? Seriously???

I guess Donnie&Marie didn't make the cut.
Elton&elves signifies the new Cleveland,rock&roll died.

LOL

Hate to see a great player miss games, but it helps us next week.

Yeah. I feel bad about that. I wish Watt could play against us next Thursday night.

At least Hudson won’t have to block him one on one while our coaching staff is busy with other things.

The steelers without watt is a different entity. still tough and formidable, but he’s obviously their MVP. I’m curious how their game against the Pats will go.

Off the leash Miles? Seriously. You got your two sacks in back-to-back whiffs by a rookie LT in the 3rd Qtr...but where were you in the 4th Q when the Panthers were making a 17 point comeback?

How many sacks did you get in Q4? (The answer is ZERO.)

How many tackles-for-loss did you have in Q4? (The answer is...again...ZERO.)

You did have a 4th tackle...I don't remember when/where...I'll assume you made that 4th tackle in Q4. ..whoopty-heaven. Your 3rd tackle was a tackle-for-loss credited when the Panthers fumbled the snap and the QB was laying on the ball.

So to recap your DPOY-like performance...(1) tackle (for loss) when the QB fumbled the snap...(2) tackles (as sacks) when the LT whiffed on back-to-back plays on ONE possession...and a nondescript tackle sometime in the game...with a PFF run grade below the other Browns DLineman who saw any real action - including our believed-to-be-sucky DTs

You wanna see what a DPOY-candidate looks like? Go watch Chris Jones from last night's game...I'd love to see Myles play like THAT. For that matter...just go watch Clowney...his impact is much better than yours...and he'd rather kick your ass than love-tap it.

A rookie Kicker nails a 58 yarder...as time runs out...to save your bacon from the embarrassment of a Q4 comeback loss to your former QB and you yap like that? Oh that's right...you gotta EAT. I wish we had a real leader on defense...a true alpha-dawg...instead of guys who talk too damn much.

Now your bashing Garrett

Actually...I never stopped "bashing" Garrett (if factual presentation of his play is "bashing") as he's been the same guy since he got here - actually more-healthy than when he first got here. I don't think he sucks or is bad...he's just NOT The guy he is portrayed to be...he simply isn't...never has been.

He's not at the same level of play as Chris Jones, TJ Watt, Aaron Donald, Bosa x2...he's just not at that DPOY-type level.

I'd LOVE to see him dominate an offense at critical times (or even TIME...with no S) to secure a win or make a big/important/game-changing play/stop...or even just to get off the damn field.

He looks great without a shirt on and is an impressive basketball player though.

He's trolling with a tweet from Sept 11th .... he just can't keep the Baker Hate out of the forum.

Garrett has improved though IMO. There could be a case that he wasn’t a great player when his career started, but he’s improved against the run, is more disciplined, and has made some game changing plays in his career.

I will agree: I think Watt and Donald are better players and more game changing, but Garrett is near the top of the NFL in my mind

This is either a parody or the worst post ever.

I'm not about to criticize Myles for his performance, even if it was against a 21 yr old rookie playing in his first regular season game.

That said, I'm not about to criticize a fellow DTer who is telling the truth about the level of competition Myles was playing against to get his 2 sacks.

Those who seem to have a problem with the 'truth'...you do have a problem.

It's not like the NFL is going to make MG give those sacks back...lol...so don't worry.

After all, it was pointed out by many that TJ Watt's huge day against the Browns last Jan 3, 2022 came as Watt was going against the Browns rookie RT, Hudson. The sacks still counted, but the truth did add a bit of clarity to Watt's accomplishment.

And yet you - and others - offer ZERO to refute my points.

Say hey Willie- here's one who challenges your comments from the peanut gallery- LIKE all us posters- Head Coach KS says Myles is a game changer, check it on Youtube. Plus, ALL his teammates KNOW he's game changer. Lastly, YOU list who you'd spend most time planning against the BROWN defense----ugh, if you have a brain, you'd spend lots of time on who---Myles G......Go Browns!!!

Don’t argue with a fool. . .

Winfrey is going to “fudge” around and find out, isn’t he?

j/c...

I believe this is the second time this goofball has been disciplined.

The WIN is all that matters. How you get there is irrelevant. A Carolina WIN would have set Baker off... 5 sacks in the 4th quarter would have been meaningless if the Browns LOST the game.

You can't see the forest for the trees.

I still have high hopes for Winfrey, but he may not be able to get out of his own way. I could tell he was one of those "need to stay focused" type players that may have a hard time finding his way when his focus strays.

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/n...et-beware-the-browns-broncos-own-blunder

Just posting his 1st thought, click the link for the rest:

he NFL season is a marathon; not a race. You hear me, 49ers fans? Another great slate of games lies ahead of us.

Let's dig in with five thoughts on the league.

1. Did we all overlook the Browns?

I made a little news Monday when I went on "Good Morning Football" and said the national media narrative had been so focused on Deshaun Watson the past six months that prognosticators forgot just how good the Cleveland Browns were at every other position.

Were the Browns overlooked? How does Denver rebound?
Were the Browns overlooked? How does Denver rebound?
In the Week 2 edition of his NFL Cheat Sheet, Peter Schrager discusses whether Cleveland was overlooked and how Broncos coach Nathaniel Hackett has owned his mistake at Seattle.
The Watson conversation — all of it — was uneasy, and thus, the convenient thing to do was to just assume the team wouldn't perform without him on the field. Or, if you're a cynic on this, you'd say the media didn't want to celebrate the Browns after the Watson trade (and subsequent massive contract extension), and thus, treated them like the fourth team in a rather loaded AFC North.

That's awfully dismissive of a team with a perennial Defensive Player of the Year candidate in Myles Garrett, for my dime, the best running back duo in the NFL in Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt, and a young and dynamic cornerback duo of former first-round picks that I'd put up against anyone.

Kevin Stefanski is a recent NFL Coach of the Year winner, and GM Andrew Berry has proven to be a skilled front office executive and evaluator of talent.

On paper, with questions at quarterback or without, Cleveland has a strong roster — especially after making an upgrade at the top wide receiver spot with the Amari Cooper trade — and a core of young players and coaches who've shown they can win in the NFL. Universally, they were slotted for fourth place in the division.

Browns get best of Baker
Browns get best of Baker
Baker Mayfield came up short in his Carolina debut against his former team.
The Browns beat the Panthers on Sunday, escaping a near late-game collapse, with a 58-yard, game-winning kick by rookie kicker Cade York. For 60 minutes, the Browns were dominant on both sides of the ball in the trenches, with a Panthers team that also prides itself on physicality.

And that's what's scary about the Browns this season. They don't necessarily need dynamic play from a QB such as Josh Allen or Justin Herbert. Jacoby Brissett needs to be the best Jacoby Brissett can be, and the defense and punishing style of football Cleveland employs can handle the rest.

Can Jacoby Brissett keep Browns afloat?
Can Jacoby Brissett keep Browns afloat?
Joe Thomas joins Colin Cowherd to discuss the expectations for the Browns while Deshaun Watson is suspended.
I'm kicking myself for being one of the many pundits who left the Browns out of their playoff pictures back in August. I spoke to an opposing NFL head coach Tuesday, and he told me the Browns are "get off the bus scary." What's that mean? "When they walk off the bus, they're big, they're strong, and they go 20 deep like that. They've got a team that wants to beat you up in the trenches. Never easy to play those teams."

The Eagles of the '90s — with Reggie White, Jerome Brown and Randall Cunningham, were "get off the bus scary." The 49ers squads of the early 2010s, with Aldon Smith and Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman, were also in that category.

Watson is coming back at some point. Maybe Week 13. Or Brissett wins enough games and has the Browns rolling, and Cleveland pushes the Watson era to 2023.

Either way, the Browns face the Jets at home on Sunday and could very well start the year 2-0. I'd expect plenty more wins than that.

They're big, strong, well-coached and, oh yeah, they're overlooked.

If you don't want to "root" for the Browns, that's fine. But they're not going to be a bad football team.

j/c:

Myles is a great player. He just had the highest PFF score in the league against Carolina. Him and Watt were neck and neck in last year's PFF rankings and were again in their preseason predictors. The players voted him the league's 11th best overall player. He has been in the Pro-Bowl three times and was a first team All Pro twice. He received a perfect score in Madden and before anyone scoffs, the players take that grade very seriously. He was the Browns Man of the Year. Teams regularly double team. He has the respect of football people across the league. He is about to break our all-time sack record. The only ones trashing him are spiteful Baker fans, including one who said that Baker was the best qb in the NFL since Joe Montana.

This is pretty cool.




Not sure why that isn't showing up. It was Brian Baldinger saying Amari might be the best route runner in the league and showing a couple examples. I'll provide the link down below if you want to check it out.


https://twitter.com/T_johnson_TJ/status/1570040414794649600?s=20&t=f5Ov7HhGfQ61m9vyr4KewA

Thank you.

Yikes(?)

Sounds like Winfrey needs a lot of maturing. It’s pretty rare for a teammate to call out a teammate like that.

Is there any word on what he did wrong?
Did I miss some news?

I agree about the clutch plays part with Myles, but you Ioved the last guy who talked too much and didn't perform in the 4th quarter so why the double standard with Myles?

I have no problem bashing players that deserve it, Myles doesn't deserve it. He is one of the best players in the Nfl, yet you still bash him. I swear some of you guys would have bashed Jim Brown and Otto Graham.

Myles Garrett said that the issues that caused Perrion Winfrey to face discipline and be dismissed from practice is something he and other leaders spoke up about and now its in Kevin Stefanski's hands.

"At the end of the day he's got to learn how to be a pro."

Crazy. I wonder what in the hell he did?

Even when nobody else is talking about Baker, you just can't seem to keep his name out of your mouth. And absolutely nobody is surprised by that. You love to try and stir the pot then you and a few of your minions blame everyone else for what you start. You're hilarious.

Some other news while I was trying to find details on Winfrey.

Conklin returned to practice today after not practicing on Thursday. He may play Sunday.

Hubbard will not play Sunday.

Garrett was the highest rated player in the NFL in week 1. Have you lost your mind?

I agree with you 100%. Some people think everything a player does shows up on a stat sheet. It doesn't. When he came into the league he had a problem maintaining discipline on outside containment. That often happens with young players who are single minded in focusing on just attacking the football. What we saw resulted on end around runs and quick outlet passes in the area he should have been attending to. That hurt the team. He has grown and matured since then. Maintaining outside containment will often keep you away from getting sacks and pressures but on many plays that's your responsibility.

What it will do is alter your opponents ability to attack that area of the field with any measure of success. That doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Gods honest truth. Even posted a tweet from nearly a week ago trying to drag Baker into the MG discussion.... and by Ver's own standards he's lying (again) because there is only one person criticizing MG - and he isn't trashing Garrett, he's saying he'd like to see MG light it up at the end of games which we've lost like Donald and TJ Watt..... the fact the WSU is talking about MG and comparing him to Watt and Donald is evidence enough there is no "trashing". But oh well.

Well..."the other guy" isn't here anymore...I haven't posted about him in a loooong time. On the rare occasion that I mentioned "the other guy" starting towards the end of last year I regularly stated "warts and all"...or something along the lines of "in spite of his issues going through progressions". I'm not sure how what I thought of "the other guy" (who has been long gone) has anything to do with what I've always said about a current guy...who just keeps proving me correct.


FWIW...I love Myles Garrett...he's a good player and a good guy....he's just NOT the player that he's blown up to be. No impact plays during a Q4 comeback of 17 points against a bad team and a rookie LT...I bring that up and I'm the bad guy? So be it.

Zero sacks in games 14, 15 & 16 last year (three straight losses) when we were in the midst of a playoff run..and I'm the bad guy? So be it. I post that he had exactly ONE game last year with more than 1.5 sacks and I'm a hater? And against the Bears at that.

My previous description of him remains spot on. Tell me where I am wrong. You are even in agreement with what I've said about clutch plays. The only other of my points to debate are that he is too focused on getting the sack, plays poorly against the run and disappears after he gets his sack. I don't need to read PFF or G-A-S what other players think to gain that opinion. He didn't jump offsides or lineup offsides in the opener...so that was great to see.

Lastly, it's possible to like a guy and still be critical of him and want/expect him to be better...or be who he is stroked to be. I'll be rooting for him to destroy the Jets...just like I do with every opponent.

j/c:

I'm wondering if Winfrey showed up wasted?

I'm would bet that he showed up late.

. Idk. I was thinking it had more to do with how he was practicing against others. I guess it could be him under the influence.

That was my first thought. I don't know.......the word "professional" stood out to me.

There is a rumor out there that says he "assaulted a coach again." No idea if it is true. And I didn't hear anything about him assaulting a coach before. Has anyone else?

I didn’t hear of him assaulting a coach but he was disciplined early in camp for something.

No idea if information from this article is related to Perrion's current troubles...

link

It's a credibility thing. Blast one guy for something while defending another when they have the same shortcomings. I'm sure you don't care if I think you're credible, but I like pointing it out all the same.

And I'll say this again...the way Baker can get people on his side is impressive. I lurk on one of the Panthers boards. They have threads stating Baker is their franchise QB. The posts within the thread are littered with opposing views. For the favorable views, it's everyone else's fault, including the Browns "trash" organization for why Baker didn't succeed. This is coming from a fanbase that I would say was 90% against acquiring Baker to begin with. Something about that guy is magical such that when he cultivates a following, that group of folks is all in.

No matter what I think of the guy, that is damn impressive. He could start a cult...or maybe he already has.

Start a cult, like Trump....I'm not a Baker HATER, I just never liked him- I'll admit he's pretty cagey in business- selling shirts, doing insurance commercials, he's in Heisman commercials, he gets his dollars while he's relevant. Did he get after his craft like his other opposing QBs did/have done....no one really knows. I didn't like him running for cops before he was drafted number one. He's a small guy with a chip on his shoulder/ over producer....and LASTLY, I think getting yourself hurt tackling after throwing an interception. He wasn't paid to tackle.....GO Browns!!!!

All bark and no bite? I was okay drafting him in the 4th, but not before then.

Hopefully this is a wake up call that Perrion hears.

#work

No doubt. The guy is a egg head who needs to get it in gear in a hurry.

If it's Perrion Winfrey, ask, Why would the Browns rely on a rookie?
Not even a top ten or first guy drafted.

What is the REAL potential for Big Plays by the Browns offense, as currently constructed?

I don't think it's what he did.

I feel like it's not what he doesn't do.

Watching his draft day video, I feel he might have too much energy to

sit and focus on film or pay attention to what coaches and players ask of him.

He might not be a good listener and that would be not

being a pro.

I was hoping Chester Rogers could be our answer (or at least a better option) as a PR this week

" Learn to be a Pro."

That would imply things like:

Being on time. Paying attention in film sessions. Following what you are being taught.

Curfew. Knowing assignments. Not repeating mistakes. Being serious about preparation.

Acting like a professional being mature.

It is a privilege to play in the NFL. That means you better act like it rookie.

It's impossible to have any conversation about a Browns player without Vers dragging Mayfield into the conversation. Though I agree with the idea that MG appears to disappear in some games when comparing his output to a Watt or Donald, as a total package for the game against the Panthers his PFF grade was exactly where it should have been playing against a rookie LT starting his first game ever in the NFL. IMHO, there is an issue that keeps rearing its ugly head and that's the inability of the defense to hold the lead. If you're honest, it's a trend that has been going on for a long time and that's a problem. As a package, Garrett 94.4 and Clowney 76.3 had pretty good games from the edge position. The interior of Elliot 60.2 ranked 47th and Bryan 57.6 ranked 58th puts the Browns DT's at or near the bottom of the NFL, again. If you don't think this is a problem - stay tuned.

Finally, much like as another poster stated, there are plays where Garrett has outside contain rather than bull rushing the QB, his PFF Grade encompassed all those plays where he had other responsibilities other than just rushing the QB. His overall grade obviously showed that in addition to his pass rushing, Garrett had the best game in the NFL based on his total overall grade. I do find it hilarious that the same people pushing MG's overall PFF Grade as proof of his total overall game against the Panthers are the exact same people making excuse after excuse for the poor PFF Grade and showing of Njoku 56.1 ranked 34th of 50 and Wills 51.7 ranked 59th out of 64 tackles ranked. That's 3 players that performed at the replaceable level 0-59 (Bryan 57.6, Njoku 56.1, Wills 51.7) and 1 at backup 60-69 (Elliott 60.2) just barely making backup grade. The big issue is that those grades are not just a one off at the beginning of the season, it's consistent with the performance they have been giving in previous years. IMHO, that's a huge concern as we go deeper into the season especially when the level on competition spikes. But hey, to each their own.

Very positive news about Hudson:

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...rom-james-hudson/?itm_source=parsely-api

If I didn't know how raw/new he is to the OT position, I'd think the author was talking about a LT prospect.

Hudson being a league average player would be a huge hit for the roster. Anything more than that is one of the best picks of Andrew Berry’s career. Getting a starting tackle in the fourth round is awesome.

Gameday Grind: Creating an NFL field
#GamedayGrind gives fans an entertaining behind the scenes look of the combined effort it takes from different parts of the organization to create the best gameday experience possible. In this episode the grounds crew has just a week to flip FirstEnergy Stadium into a game ready field a week after hosting Machine Gun Kelly's sold out show.

This is a comment from Joe Thomas on Hudson. It's in the thread Clem started that is entitled Joe.

I love Joe Thomas. His history of player evaluation (and coach evaluation) has been spotty at best. Let’s hope she’s right for this first time.

I don't think it's so much evaluations coming from him. I mean a lot of people see it that way and I certainly can understand why. But if people actually look at it, it's more support and encouragement than anything else. We see it all the time. How often do you see a Browns coach or a Browns player actually say negative things about other members of the Browns? Instead they talk them up and accentuate the positives. Joe has always been that way.

I think he was actually being pretty honest. I think most fans had huge question marks as to how Hudson would perform at RT. If he hadn't made some big strides in improving he never would have played as well as he did. The only question remaining is can that be accomplished on a consistent basis or was in an anomaly? I think Joe covered that with this part of his statement..... "Now it’s just for him about consistency."

My feeling with Garetts comments was something like a run in with line coach Kiffin. Stefanski seemed a little more irritated that him being late for a meeting

Speculation. Who knows?

Sounds like a repeated offense of some kind. Myles said something like it was no surprise. You could see it coming.

I hope he learns from it.

Myles is a captain and he is Myles Garrett. I hope Myles sets his ass straight

His post-draft interview said it all about his immaturity level at this point in time. It was cringe-worthy.

Seems like Ben Gay 2.0. I think that's the right guy; missed meetings and number of things. I found him physically amazing. He just cut his own chances short.

Analytics resulted in the Browns needing to recover an onside kick, an onside kick by the opponent about, 7, or 8, or 9 times in the last couple of years, in order to win on that day.
Some stat listed that onside kicks are only I4% successful, well, if you treat Fourteen percent like it's Zero percent eventually if you rely on that so often, so very often, then it will go wrong.

Analytics loses on gamedays, The Browns... lost this week in a very analyzable game.

The opposite of what was the concern to begin the season.

Special team kickoffs short, coverage poor, missed xtra point. Felton is a mistake waiting to happen on every punt. Covering an onside kick. Elementary.

The offense yesterday was outstanding. Jacoby played better than most thought possible. In fact DW could not be expected to play any better than Jacoby yesterday. Of course DW is a better quarterback but Jacoby played really well.


The strength of the team was supposed to be the secondary. Delpit was horrible. Newsome was not much better. They failed in press man and zone. They got beat in every way possible. How a receiver is able to get behind coverage after the Chubb TD? That is inexcusable.

Why are we kicking off so short? Why are we letting guys behind us with 1:40 left? It’s baffling

The short kickoffs are perplexing to me. Cade York has a very strong leg, right?

Yeah, i dont get it either. Unless we’re trying to get cute and pin them even further. But Berrios was getting to the 35 yard line consistently

If it happens once, it's an aberration. If it happens more than once, it is by design.

j/c...

Great.

Not good

Just pre-cautionary with Clowney. Short week and all. We could use him, but this happens.

Well, this sucks.

Meanwhile Andrew Berry is happy with DPJ and Schwartz and does
Nothing to upgrade the WR room.
DPJ and Schwartz have less than 100 yds combined
In 2 games. Some of you just need to admit
Those 2 WRs aren't very good.

J/c

One thing I noticed: we didnt target Schwartz one time vs NY. And our offense was as efficient as it could be. Wonder if it’s a coincidence

j/c

Or did the defense not wanting to get beat deep (by Schwartz) open things up for Cooper? The running game certainly helped, too. The threat of a thing can be as valuable as the actual thing. Seeing Schwartz actually score a quick 6 would be nice, though.

The offense was fine against the Jets. The defensive meltdown was atrocious. I don't know whether to hope or fear whether the issue is tied to conditioning. If it is, a short week doesn't bode particularly well. On the other hand, once they round into "game shape" the issues might go away if this is the case.

Yeah, the Jets were so worried about a WR that can't catch the ball they focused on him instead of a proven pro bowl WR. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Two weeks are in the books and many questions surround the Browns. We have players tearing it up and others who appear to be out to lunch. A 1-1 record but owners of two double digit leads blown in the 4th quarter against cellar dwellers Carolina and the NY Jets. The PFF Grades are out for the first 2 weeks of the season. The players the Browns have at the top are not unexpected - they are stars in their own right. Likewise, the vast majority of those players grading out low are the same players that have been grading out low for years now. The couple of surprises both high and low provide some explanation for struggles we seem to face this year and previous years. here's the scores for the first 2-weeks of the season - FYI:

The PFF grading system evaluates every player on every play during a football game. We believe that #EveryPlayCounts and that attention to detail provides insights and data that cannot be found anywhere else. The grading system was founded on the principle of grading “production” rather than traits or measurables, but perhaps a better way to describe it is a player’s “contribution to production” on a given play.

Did the quarterback make a great throw, but it was dropped? The quarterback contributed to positive production and will receive a positive grade for that effort, even though the receiver let him down, earning a negative grade along the way.

Each game players are graded on a scale from 1-100. 90-100 represents an elite grade, 85-89 represents an all-conference player, 70-84 is starter quality, 60-69 is backup quality and everything under 60 is replaceable.

BROWNS OFFENSE THROUGH 2-WEEKS:

Rank___Position Player Grade-Starter PFF Scale
1st of 60___RB Chubb #24 86.7 Y >>>>>>>> All Conf
2nd of 70___G Teller #77 81.3 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Starter
20th of 107_WR Cooper #2 76.0 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Starter
12th of 70___G Bitonio #75 72.1 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Starter
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
11th of 64__TE Bryant #88 67.9 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
18th of 60__RB Hunt #27 67.8 No >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
38th of 66__OT Hudson #66 65.0 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
17th of 34__QB Brissett #7 64.4 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
69th of 107_WR DPJ #11 60.8 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
23rd of 36___C Pocic #55 60.6 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
34th of 64__TE Njoku #85 59.2 Y $14M - Top 5 pay? >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
58th of 66__OT Wills Jr. #71 53.6 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
105 of 107_WR Bell #18 48.6 No >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable

BROWNS DEFENSE THROUGH 2-WEEKS:

Rank___Position Player Grade-Starter PFF Scale
2 of 103__Edge Garrett #95 91.9 Y Elite
1st of 77___LB JOK #28 91.4 Y Elite
3rd of 77___LB Walker #5 90.8 Y Elite
10 of 103_Edge Clowney #90 89.2 Y >>>>>>>> All Conf
11 of 103__CB Emerson #23 74.8 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Starter
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
34th of 71__S Johnson #43 63.4 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
50 of 122__DT Bryan #99 61.9 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
53 of 103_Edge Wright #94 60.4 No >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Backup
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
58 of 122__DT Togiai #93 59.9 No >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
69 of 103__CB Newsome #20 57.7 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
104 of 122_DT Elliott #96 47.6 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
96 of 103__CB Ward #21 43.8 Y 20M per year for play like this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
65th of 71__S Delpit #22 42.2 Y >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable
72nd of 77_LB Phillips #50 29.7 No >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Replaceable

Amari's Targets Brownswire Link

Look at the giant window Brissett had to throw into on his third target. Schwartz' man had to turn and sprint to keep up with him, and the safety started and stayed deep until the ball was thrown because of him.

DPJ does similar on his 5th target.

There are more to the plays than just following the ball.

So your contention is they kept a S deep because of Schwartz. I guess that's as good of a theory as any.

Not so much because he's Schwartz, but because he was the deepest receiver. The deep safety's assignment is generally to stay deeper than the deepest. Schwartz can get deep pretty quickly. In that instance, Schwartz appears to be the one he was staying deeper than.

j/c...

Oh no. Bottlegate 2.0!

Joe Banner.

I see absolutely nothing in that video... what's hiding in there that they're trying to show?

Browns have identified and plan to ban fan who hit owner Jimmy Haslam with bottle

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...erqnbyB5-4V4QG3y46RJDLXBT1qTVl9ypv6w2rfA

Haslam getting plunked by a bottle as he walked towards the tunnel. The bottle ricochets off of Haslam and lands in the grass to the left of him.

Just watch the bottom middle of the screen... You see a guy in a white dress shirt walking off and get plunked.

LOL ALL our db's are REPLACEABLE.....

Some fans are so freaking stupid.

I remember sitting in the Dawg Pound decades ago and this dude beside me--and some of his friends--were taking rocks and golf balls out of their coat pockets and throwing them in Denver's huddle. I told them to knock it off and a fight almost ensued, but luckily some others joined in w/me and security also arrived. Just freaking ignorant.

except emerson

Contrite?

I didn't make the scale - it is what it is. The point is that the 6 defensive players you listed are playing at a level that's replaceable. I didn't make up their grade, it's how they performed each play they were on the field. Two games in a row the Browns defense blew double digit leads to 2 of the weakest offensive teams in the NFL. Obviously, someone on the defense isn't playing up to the level needed for the team to be successful. 4 of the 11 starters are on this list. That does not qualify the Browns defense as a top 5 defense like it was posted 100's of times on this forum. Adding to that point is that 3 of the 5 starting defensive backs are on this list and according to the pundits here, our defensive backfield is supposed to be top notched. After 2-weeks, their performance numbers tell quite a different story.

Winfrey might already be down to strike 3 lol

The Cleveland Browns made multiple roster moves on Tuesday, including a pair of players to the injured reserve. Defensive end Chase Winovich and tight end Jesse James will both miss at least four games.

Winovich missed much of training camp with an injury, so they just keep piling up for the former Michigan Wolverine. Jadeveon Clowney is already out for at least a week with an ankle injury, so the edge room is quickly being depleted. The Browns will have to rely on rookies Alex Wright and Isaiah Thomas, as well as Isaac Rochell to pair with Myles Garrett.

j/c
I just want to point out, Stefanski held Winfrey out. Even when we could've used the DT depth for the game. This is one example of accountability.

I am not in the locker room or with the team on the field. I do not know if he didn't hold others to the same accountability in other situations. This isn't an ah-ha! See I'm right, you're wrong. Or look how awesome Stefanski is. I just want to point out one situation of where he held a player accountable (for whatever he did), when the player could've been in the rotation. If your reply is what about Woods? I wasn't there for the after game or Monday meeting, I cannot comment on that.

Chill out bro....I am laughing at the horrible performances by the millionaire players charted as REPLACEALE!

j/c...

Excellent

It's neither good nor bad.

There's no dissension in the ranks here. Any media mention or implication of that before Thursday night is nonsense.

Cut down on gameday mental mistakes, and there's no need for "morale booster" accountability meetings after two games.

Get the onfield defensive play figured out immediately.

These are grown men. Do your job professionally on a consistent basis, and there'll be no more need for meetings about "pulling together".

Imo

He does. I think all but one that went deep were planned. You can tell the planned high kicks because the ball rotates much faster since it is kicked lower.

I didn't understand that plan after maybe one kick since we weren't getting it done on the coverage. Maybe we thought we could cover and strip the ball.

It didn't work.

Just saw that Joe Haden is signing a one day contract to retire a Brown. Honestly, can we make that one day be Thursday so he can suit up haha

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1572543325567352833?s=20&t=FBP5gDB9wOitqIAx0XCtnQ

I listened to Winfrey.

Hard to draw a conclusion. I think he has potential. I hope whatever happened is cleared up and he can contribute.

He has works to do and needs to improve. But there is talent there.

It is up to him

I would say it's a good thing. Let's face it, there is a segment of this fan base that has been trashing the team and wants to pile on. It's important that the guys remain united during turbulent times. I've been on teams that had to deal w/outside adversity. Some unite and some fracture. They probably also addressed what to say--and not say--to the media and even on social media. A lot has been made of what Myles said about the booing. However, we had another player here who did the same thing and his wife was also involved and the fan and media reaction was completely different. If I was a player on this particular team, I would drive that point home hard! It's a cause that can help further unite the team and the mantra they have had all summer of "it's us against the world!"

I think it's nice they are retiring Haden's number in a game where we are playing the Steelers. I hope the idiot fans don't boo him because he also played for the Steelers.

They are not retirning his number, he is simply re-signing to a one day contract in order to retire as a Brown.

Thanks for the correction.

This is very true - and your complete hypocrisy over crucifying Baker and Baker's wife over something like this while giving MG a complete pass has been commented on by another poster. It's ironic that you bring it up as something you think others do/did but not yourself. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Regards the player only meeting - It's a bad thing that a players only meeting needs to take place in week 2. Hopefully it will turn into a positive and things will be better moving forward.

Joe was one of our better draft picks and players since 1999. That’s not saying a lot, it he gave us his all and loved Cleveland

I wonder what they said in the players only meeting ..."hey, whatever coach Woods calls, ignore it".?

What else is there to discuss?

"We have to do something about DePodesta. He is ruining everything. I can't believe he lives in San Diego and still calls our plays."