it's the middle of July and media days are starting for college football. great time to start up a thread to see what should be an improved Big10 this season (Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, Northwestern, and Wisconsin all look to be top25 teams --- Michigan State & Penn State may push for a spot).
also, just in case it's been awhile since you have seen a wolverine get killed in his native habitat:
Quote: We'll see about that on October 4, 2014 when OSU travels to College Park to find out what it feels like to play in a real big high school stadium.
lol
ps - nothing brings a smile to my face quite like a college football topic.
Everything I read about Clowny says that he has too big of an ego to rest on his name. Time will tell if he maintains that attitude once the cash starts flowing in but for now, I wouldn't worry about it.
Quote: Everything I read about Clowny says that he has too big of an ego to rest on his name. Time will tell if he maintains that attitude once the cash starts flowing in but for now, I wouldn't worry about it.
You're assuming the cash isn't already flowing in. Come on, this is the SEC we're talking about.
Quote: Intrested in seeing how Clowney does after all this media hype, Will he work to get better or just sit back get lazy and try to live off the media.
Projected 1st pick in the draft, hit of the century against Michigan the NFL is his if he works for it...gonna be intresting.
The thing that sucks for him is that I don't think he can up his value any more. Not from that position. DE is a premier position, but not like QB, on top of the fact that he's already gotten so much pub. He can only maintain what he has, and hope that he avoids injury, but man, what a freak.
I still think that come next April, a QB gets picked first, but if he keeps his pace up, he will go right after.
I'm pretty excited for the upcoming season, especially being an Ohio State fan and actually having something to get excited about. All we had last year was seeing Urban install his new systems, and kicking Michigan's ass.
Now we can get back into that mode of every game being crucial. If you're like me, and you root for all 3 Cleveland teams and Ohio State football, aside from OSU hoops, we haven't been able to have playoff/do-or-die type games since 2010 with the Cavs final run with Lebron and Ohio State having a decent run that ended up with the Sugar Bowl win. It's been awhile.
I root for OSU hoops, and I was all for the Blackhawks on their cup run, but those and everyone else pale in comparison to the Browns, Cavs, Indians, and OSU football for me.
Quote: it's the middle of July and media days are starting for college football. great time to start up a thread to see what should be an improved Big10 this season (Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, Northwestern, and Wisconsin all look to be top25 teams --- Michigan State & Penn State may push for a spot).
also, just in case it's been awhile since you have seen a wolverine get killed in his native habitat:
Vegas Futures" odds have the following Big Ten teams in the top 25 as far as becoming National Champs.
#2 Ohio State #15 Michigan #16 Nebraska #21 Michigan State #24 Wisconsin
I've had a little extra at home time this past week so I've been watching the Big Ten Network. Saw some great games where Michigan got their asses handed to them big time.
Quote: if bama, buckeyes, florida state and texas are all undefeated who goes? the buckeys might be in trouble with there soft schedule.
Yeah those teams play some real powerhouses in Nevada, Bethune-Cookman, Idaho, New Mexico St., BYU, Colorado St., Georgia St., and Chattanooga as part of their non-conference schedules.
Quote: if bama, buckeyes, florida state and texas are all undefeated who goes? the buckeys might be in trouble with there soft schedule.
Yeah those teams play some real powerhouses in Nevada, Bethune-Cookman, Idaho, New Mexico St., BYU, Colorado St., Georgia St., and Chattanooga as part of their non-conference schedules.
If tOSU and Alabama go undefeated they will play for the NT, I don't care who goes undefeated ... there already hyping this as "the game" ... besides, Texas and FSU aren't little sisters, but there names don't compare to those 2 ... JMHO
Quote: if bama, buckeyes, florida state and texas are all undefeated who goes? the buckeys might be in trouble with there soft schedule.
Yeah those teams play some real powerhouses in Nevada, Bethune-Cookman, Idaho, New Mexico St., BYU, Colorado St., Georgia St., and Chattanooga as part of their non-conference schedules.
those other teams don't have to play perdue, Indiana, ill, buffalo, vandy, cal {ranked last in the pac 12}. penn state etc. 9 cup cakes. the truth of the matter is the buckeyes have the softest schedule of those 4 teams.
do you agree that if there is more than 2 undefeated teams the should take the 2 with the harder schedules. bama plays in the hardest conference in the country. besides you really don't want to see osu play the tide or do you? I don't, this bama team can be better than last.
Quote: if bama, buckeyes, florida state and texas are all undefeated who goes? the buckeys might be in trouble with there soft schedule.
Yeah those teams play some real powerhouses in Nevada, Bethune-Cookman, Idaho, New Mexico St., BYU, Colorado St., Georgia St., and Chattanooga as part of their non-conference schedules.
have you looked at osu schedule. these teams play a harder schedule the osu does. the big 10 mave not have another team in the top 12 at the end of the year.
Quote: if bama, buckeyes, florida state and texas are all undefeated who goes? the buckeys might be in trouble with there soft schedule.
Yeah those teams play some real powerhouses in Nevada, Bethune-Cookman, Idaho, New Mexico St., BYU, Colorado St., Georgia St., and Chattanooga as part of their non-conference schedules.
have you looked at osu schedule. these teams play a harder schedule the osu does. the big 10 mave not have another team in the top 12 at the end of the year.
Yeah Florida St.'s schedule is real tough.(Sarcasm)
Quote: Are you kidding or just another Ohio State hater?
i am not a buckeye hater, but rather a fan. but if you are going to sit here and say that osu's schedule is tuff you are looking at it with blinders on. and don't go by last years teams, its this year that counts. I will give you a example cal last year was ranked high in the pac-12 but this year they are ranked dead last in the pac-12. then they pick up one of the worst teams from the sec in vandy [real powerhouse} buffalo. I just see it and call it like it is. its one of the softest schedules of preseason top 2 ranked teams ever. it is what it is! you have to admit it.
It's not so much about who recruited the kid. A pretty significant amount of these kids come from a rough upbringing, all coaches recruit these types of kids. Urban Meyer clearly doesn't have control over his players, though.
It's definitely something to look at. He takes a chance on these kids more than other coaches would.
But like you said, he can't sit there and babysit them at night when they are off school and practice hours.
He did the right thing though. He definitely has more pull at OSU than he did at Florida.
As far as OSU's schedule goes, most fans know that this schedule has set up very nice for them. Their only tough OOC game is at Cal, and the rest of the Big Ten is just flat out weak. They know their only shot at the title game is to run the table.
I do think they will get the nod if they do that. Don't forget, they were screwed out of anything last year, and will have won some 25 games in a row to get to that point (if it happens). You're only fooling yourself if you don't think that comes into play with the voters.
Quote: if bama, buckeyes, florida state and texas are all undefeated who goes? the buckeys might be in trouble with there soft schedule.
Yeah those teams play some real powerhouses in Nevada, Bethune-Cookman, Idaho, New Mexico St., BYU, Colorado St., Georgia St., and Chattanooga as part of their non-conference schedules.
have you looked at osu schedule. these teams play a harder schedule the osu does. the big 10 mave not have another team in the top 12 at the end of the year.
Yeah Florida St.'s schedule is real tough.(Sarcasm)
Most Pre-Season rankings have 4 or 5 Big Ten teams in their Top 25 and only 2 or 3 ACC teams.
once again you need to look at this years schedule. come back at the end of the season and tell me how many teams the buckeys play that are ranked in the top 50. the only teams I see giving them any competition is Michigan and the badgers.
Looks like Bradley Roby was arrested over the weekend for an altercation as well. At least in this case he didn't assault the daughter of a cop, so he has a chance to have charges dropped which will keep him around. Unbelievably stupid though.
I think they can get by without Hyde, but not without Roby.
I just read the article on ESPN about Hyde and i have to wonder why he's being dismissed before he has even been arrested or charged with anything. Not condoning assaulting women but the article just states that he's a person of interest. That could mean many things.
Quote: once again you need to look at this years schedule. come back at the end of the season and tell me how many teams the buckeys play that are ranked in the top 50. the only teams I see giving them any competition is Michigan and the badgers.
We will do just that, at the end of the season we will compare Florida St.'s schedule to OSU's.
Quote: I just read the article on ESPN about Hyde and i have to wonder why he's being dismissed before he has even been arrested or charged with anything. Not condoning assaulting women but the article just states that he's a person of interest. That could mean many things.
The same thing happened with Jake Stoneburner last year. There was an altercation with a woman (I think his girlfriend), he was arrested and booted off only to be reinstated when the charged were dropped. My guess is that Meyer isn't going to put up with questions from the media and elsewhere about it. Hyde will probably be brought back if the charges get dropped, however I don't think that will happen.
I understand, but according to the ESPN article Hyde hasn't even been charged. He's just someone who was mentioned in the report as a person of interest to the Police.
I wasn't saying it was a tough schedule, but you failed to mention that many top teams play weak schools. Dawg66 listed some of them. Therefore, I don't see what the big deal is.
Quote: I understand, but according to the ESPN article Hyde hasn't even been charged. He's just someone who was mentioned in the report as a person of interest to the Police.
Yes, but I think they are taking him off the team until the legal process works itself out. It's just a headache and distraction right now. If the charges are dropped, which I think there is a very slim chance, then he will be reinstated.
The school doesn't have to wait on something like that. Playing college football is a privilege, not a right.
ACC says they would have ejected Clowney for "The Hit"
I don't know how much cleaner you can get than running upfield and engaging the runner as he did. Yes, he slid upwards and made contact with the facemask (causing it to jettison), but there's not that much a defender can do there unless we ask them to dive at the runners knees.
Quote: It's just a headache and distraction right now. If the charges are dropped, which I think there is a very slim chance, then he will be reinstated.
A source told ESPN's Brett McMurphy that there is surveillance video of the incident that's contrary to what is being reported.
I wasn't saying it was a tough schedule, but you failed to mention that many top teams play weak schools. Dawg66 listed some of them. Therefore, I don't see what the big deal is.
hey dog, my original post on the subject was what happens if and I say if [bama, buckeyes, noles, longhorns and the ducks] all finish undefeated. who plays in the national championship game? I said that the buckeys soft schedule of non league and leagues games this year will hurt the chances of playing in that game.
The gravity of the situation hit home when a conservative administrator -- a wrestler in his younger days and AD at academically elite Stanford for six years -- was the one to finally give voice to the upheaval we'd been hearing about eor months.
While it's not a full-on breakaway from the NCAA that's coming to college football, the look and feel of the sport will never be the same. Frustrated at a bogged-down, ineffective NCAA, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said Monday he and his BCS conference peers favored "transformative change" in college athletics.
He later identified that change as the possible establishment of a so-called “Division 4” of the highest level of football-playing schools.
"We've made it too easy to get into Division I," Bowlsby said Monday at his conference's media days, "and too easy to stay there."
So who needs the MAC -- or Mountain West or any of the non-BCS schools that get table scraps as it is? Certainly not the BCS schools about to formalize what has been a de facto for-profit model driving college athletics.
What we'd been hearing for those months now seems to be heading for reality. There is going to be a further subdivision at the highest level of college football. It last happened in 1978 when FCS (Division I-AA) was created. That relegated 250 or so schools to the non-revenue purgatory that is I-AA.
Get ready for an expansion of that purgatory for the have-nots. The message was as clear as the division between the BCS and non-BCS conferences. ACC commissioner John Swofford said it could come within six months. Bowlsby said an NCAA special convention may be needed.
A special convention in 1985 established the death penalty for chronic NCAA violators. The next special convention may mean football death -- at least at the top level of the game -- for every hyphenated, directional school below the BCS Mendoza Line.
Get ready, then, for Division 4, where those BCS schools (Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12, ACC, SEC) are going to set their own rules.
• Theoretically they not only will be able to pay players, but pay them as much as they want -- $5,000, $10,000 per year? Why not? In the new governance structure, there'd be no MAC schools to vote it down.
• Forget a four-team playoff. How soon could Divisiom 4 officials institute an eight-teamer? As soon as they damn well please.
• Might as well forget "Division 4" as a formal label too. Couldn't the schools sell naming rights since the NCAA that now will only nominally oversee big-time football won't have much of a say?
Think of the new subdivision as the NFL -- Nike Football League – if the shoe giant wins the contract.
• There would be fewer chances for legal liability. Instead of the NCAA fighting the O'Bannon lawsuit, Division 4 could openly negotiate with video game manufacturers, use players likenesses, numbers, names and faces -- and distribute the revenue back to the players.
Once again, what could the NCAA do? Bowlsby's statements suggest the association has lost leverage.
• Division 4 could set its own scholarship limitations, make its own enforcement rules. Bowlsby specifically expressed frustration at NCAA enforcement which has not distinguished itself lately -- or at all. Think of Division 4 setting its own recruiting rules.
Part-time students playing football? Why not? Remember, its Division 4's game, money and future.
“It [college football] is professional in many ways,” said Ohio University professor Dave Ridpath, an academic reformer and NCAA critic. “They could go to school on their own time.”
Don't worry about the NCAA tournament. In this setting, the BCS schools would participate in it. The rub would come when Michigan plays a Miami (Ohio) that doesn't pay its players some kind of stipend. But what, really, would be the difference from now? Both sides already admit a competitive and recruiting disparity.
NCAA president Mark Emmert released a statement saying the Association's board and executive committee welcomes discusssions on how the governance process can be improved.
"Many good ideas are being suggested," Emmert said, "including ways to increase the involvement of practitioners."
Elsewhere, Bowlsby's comment reverberated around college athletics.
"It will surprise me if they [BCS conferences] don't get what they want," said Karl Benson, the Sun Belt commissioner.
And if they do?
"The other five conferences will have to decide at what level we can afford to participate in it," Benson added.
The MAC's Jon Steinbrecher, commissioner of another impacted non-BCS league, said the main issue is "a great level of frustration at NCAA governance. ... We operate in silos. What we've not had is a national dialogue of what the issues are."
If the BCS schools follow through, they are doing it because they can -- because they have. You might have noticed the BCS conferences are taking in about 70 percent (conservative estimate) of the $7.2 billion produced by the College Football Playoff beginning in 2014. That's after taking in 85 percent of the BCS money since 1998.
Bowlsby went so far as to say Monday that those five conferences may play games amongst themselves. No non-BCS schools (Conference USA, MAC, Sun Belt, Mountain West and American -- beginning in 2014). The Big Ten is already making noise about not playing I-AA (FCS) schools. What would be the big deal with cutting out the non-BCS schools?
“There are going to be winners and losers in there,” Bowlsby said bluntly.
Truth to be told, the likes of the Sun Belt were happy to get those table scraps. Benson long ago understood the economics. So did long-bleating Boise State. It owes a lot of whatever brand loyalty it has developed, success it has earned to the BCS. If the BCS commissioners survived the anti-trust concerns that went with establishing that college football playoff, building a new luxury home in Division 4 to house it is going to be easy.
“I think some kind of reconfiguration of how we govern is in order,” Bowlsby said.
So the time has finally come, the time we've been hearing about for months, years. We knew that financially the BCS conferences were about to flex their significant muscle. Now they're gaining further control of college athletics. By the way, don't get in their way because complete secession from the NCAA is possible, Bowlsby said, though only as “a last resort.”
Somewhere you can hear saber rattling. The commissioners are using gummed-up NCAA legislative process as an excuse, but really this about them making their own rules so they spend their own money the way they see fit.
The player stipend debate has been disaster and perhaps the last straw for the BCS schools. Northern Iowa has almost nothing in common with Texas but has the ability to vote down a stipend because it can't afford it. What the BCS commissioners are saying: Why is Northern Iowa voting on the issue in the first place?
“Northern Iowa and Texas aren't much alike,” said the same Bob Bowlsby, who also spent eight years as AD at … Northern Iowa.
While this might destroy the innocence of colligate football, assuming you believe there was a drop of innocence remaining to begin with, I think it's actually a step in the right direction. We could see the big boys play each other more often, an expanded playoff, drop the charade of "the student athlete" at these big-time BCS programs, and give these kids the benefits of what they're actually doing, which is playing semi-pro football.
conferences can decide how to determine the winner, but I suspect that most would choose to break it up into 2x8team divisions with the champion from each side playing each other in a championship game.
then, each of those conference champions playing in the 4team playoff that is already setup for 2014 (so, it really is an 8 team playoff).
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that leaves the question of which conference gets demolished. it would seem like the BigXII is the obvious solution because it has more teams that may not make the final 64 team count and ND has already aligned itself with the ACC (which matters).
somone just needs to make sure that Kansas is included. it doesn't matter for football, but the conferences would likely spill over to basketball and Kansas is important IMO.
A few years ago while standing in line at a catered lunch at work I told a coworker that eventually you will have four 16-20 team conferences and the rest of the schools will have to drop to division I-AA. The remaining schools would have so much power over the NCAA they could get anything they want or just leave the NCAA all together. Another coworker overheard and laughed at me and called me an idiot. Mind you this was before Nebraska left the Big 12. I told him you will see it's all about the money.
Over the last few year with all of the conference shifting I kept reminding him of that discussion and he has conceded at times. I'm going to have to print this article out for him to read.
I wasn't saying it was a tough schedule, but you failed to mention that many top teams play weak schools. Dawg66 listed some of them. Therefore, I don't see what the big deal is.
hey dog, my original post on the subject was what happens if and I say if [bama, buckeyes, noles, longhorns and the ducks] all finish undefeated. who plays in the national championship game? I said that the buckeys soft schedule of non league and leagues games this year will hurt the chances of playing in that game.
4 teams aren't going to finish undefeated.
I do believe Ohio State is going to get sympathy votes if they run the table. As I said before, if they pull that off that will have mean they won 25 straight games, and a conference title match to get to that point.
FSU appears to play a tougher schedule, but don't bank on Clemson or any of those other ACC teams to be great. Even with Florida, they play obviously in a tough conference, and can drop a few games making that schedule look worse.
I never liked Charlie Weis much, but this is hilarious. I don't know if it's really a good policy to be telling your current team that they are a pile of dung though.
oaches take all manner of preseason approaches, but few show up as blunt as Charlie Weis did for Big 12 Media Days. Here are three of Weis' beauties from his 20-minute Q and A with media ... For starters: "We're 1-11 and picked by everybody to finish last in the league, and that's justifiable. If I were you, I'd pick us in the same spot." ... The capper came when someone asked about Weis' [recruiting ]pitch, given the miserable state of the Jayhawks program. Weis hit on KU's academics, its facilities set-up and the lure of immediate playing time. He says he puts it this way to the typical high school recruit, referring to players already in the program: "Have you looked at that pile of crap out there? Have you taken a look at that? So if you don't think you can play here, where do you think you can play?".
personally, I don't think it's a card you should have in your deck (especially given the circumstance that it's at media days, so it feels planned out and not an emotional response after a defeat). but, hey, it's out there now.
Quote: ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- The 12-year-old Ohio State fan who named his cancer "Michigan" will attend the rivals' late November game as a guest of Wolverines coach Brady Hoke.
I don't know if we deserve to be ranked that high - I personally hate preseason rankings... Wuld rather they come out after a week or two into the season
But I guess it gives us something to talk about - hopefully we can live p to that ranking - defense really makes me nervous
Quote: Braxton Miller is going to have to play out of his mind for us to earn that ranking that was given to us.
Of course, high preseason rankings can help, so I'm not going to complain.
He's gotta step up his passing game. I actually think the 3 game suspension may be a blessing in disguise, because although they have depth, they may lean on Miller a bit more.
Buffalo will be a stroll in the park, but I do think they will be tested in both SDSU and Cal. Favored probably double digits, but tested.
I think the only team I'd argue ahead of them is Georgia. I'm not putting Oregon with a new coach above them, and Stanford I guess is arguable.
good thing for Manziel that the NCAA still wants to make money off of him. that means he either gets a slap on the wrist of the investigation takes until conveniently after A&M is out of the title race.
Reggie Bush - out of college - go after him
Buckeye5 - slap on wrist, until Sugar Bowl done, then throw the book at them and Tressel
Cam Newton - in midst of champ run, so make up a rule out of thin air (it was his parents, not him - nevermind the Reggie Bush situation) and pretend nothing happened
UNC - throw the book at a school noone cares about
Miami - not in title contention, so try to throw the book at them, but mess up so horribly that a bunch of people quit and the school/persons threaten to sue your pants off.
Quote: I know if I were facing Clowney I would double team him and chip him ... and it still might not work.
I just really hope he's healthy all year. He's a SPECIAL talent. Legit #1 pick and HOF talent. He's bigger, stronger, faster and just better than anyone else.
Well Clowney was underwhelming tonight. That one clip they ran of him walking, standing around, not even engaging the play because he was tired made him look real bad.
After that dull browns preseason game i had to watch some better action. ole miss vs vandy was a wild ending. if you havent seen it check the highlights. now im watching david carrs brother at fresno state. I wonder if people remind him of his brothers NFL career every day.
Guess I shouldn't be too surprised NDS has been a powerhouse in their division but still KSU was in the fiesta bowl last year, at home, in a brand new stadium!
Guess I shouldn't be too surprised NDS has been a powerhouse in their division but still KSU was in the fiesta bowl last year, at home, in a brand new stadium!
If you watched the game, it was a great one. The final drive by ND State was incredible .. the 3rd down conversions, the QB play, the clock management, etc .. I found myself rooting for the underdog and I'm glad I watched it.
I was routing for the underdog as well - I love KSU's coach but for some reason never really cared for the team... Pus I typically like underdogs to win
Quote: Well Clowney was underwhelming tonight. That one clip they ran of him walking, standing around, not even engaging the play because he was tired made him look real bad.
I live in Columbia, SC now. I can tell you it was miserable here. It was in the low 90s and the Dew Point was in the 70s. I was sweating sitting in the shade. The air was so thick it was hard to breathe. I couldn't believe the announcers didn't bring that fact up.
Clowney does have a history of not always going hard, though. And you are right about Sutton. He is very underrated. He's an excellent DE and I think he will be a very, very good pro.
j/c I'm really excited to see how Braxton Miller performs in his second year of Urban Meyer's system. Obviously, it will need to be taken with a grain of salt playing a team like Buffalo. I just hope his mechanics have improved and he shines in the passing game. Go Bucks!!!
I feel like I'm the only one giving Clemson a shot to beat Georgia tonight...
I could go either way - wouldn't be surprised if either team wins. I would probably pick Georgia to win but like I said I think Clemson has a great shot
Quote: They didn't look like the 2nd beast team in the country. I could see them dropping a spot or two in the polls.
I agree that they didn't look like the 2nd best team but they were without their top two RBs and their top CB.
Since I watch college football to play armchair GM, Buffalo has a good OLB Kahlil Barnes that would be a good 2nd round pick (too bad the Browns have 4 OLBs and didn't draft Millner in the 1st this past draft) and I think OSUs backup QB Kenny Guiton deserves a look as an UDFA. 9 out of his 16 drives resulted in a TD. I know Braxton has killer feet but I think Guiton is actually the better passer.
PSUs RB Zack Zwinak looks like he might be a future Peyton Hillis although he is only a Jr. He is listed as the teams FB but when inserted as a RB, as a So in week 4, he ran for 1000 yards. This dude can find holes and move piles.
I would agree with you on that, legalize. Guiton definitely has a much smoother delivery, but he also has the wheels when he needs them. It's a shame he never got many reps at QB. He had to play behind Pryor and then took a back seat to Miller. He has handled it pretty gracefully, though. And, he makes positive contributions every time he is called on.
Quote: Manziel needs to grow up. He's asking to get taken behind the woodshed when he plays Bama.
I am definitely not an Alabama fan ... but I will be when they play A&M ... and I want them to hit Manziel very hard. I used to stand up for him, but his antics today show his true personality.
Quote: Manziel needs to grow up. He's asking to get taken behind the woodshed when he plays Bama.
I am definitely not an Alabama fan ... but I will be when they play A&M ... and I want them to hit Manziel very hard. I used to stand up for him, but his antics today show his true personality.
Same.
I felt like he was a good kid that just let the spotlight get to him and he didn't know to react. Now he's just become a toolbag.
Yeah I'm not PO'd or overly concerned with Manziel, but I just think he's acting like an idiot. There are two ways you can take success, and he's choosing the wrong way IMO.
I personally didn't like the motion when he was signing the autograph ... making light of the situation .. just a dumb move.
Everyone rags on Manzel, but what about the two guys who kept getting in his face? He was provoked. Why didn't they get any criticism? Defensive guys were signing mock autographs, pointing at him, getting in his grill, etc. Yet, when the kid finally goes off, it's all his fault?
Quote: Everyone rags on Manzel, but what about the two guys who kept getting in his face? He was provoked. Why didn't they get any criticism? Defensive guys were signing mock autographs, pointing at him, getting in his grill, etc. Yet, when the kid finally goes off, it's all his fault?
yes.
he is the QB of a potential natl'l title contender. they are defenders doing whatever they can to get under his skin.
Yeah I never said he wasn't provoked. I'm sure Peyton Manning was/is as well ... and Andrew Luck for that matter (just giving an example of a younger guy).
Manziel put himself in that position to begin with, so he kind of brings it upon himself. JMO.
Quote: Everyone rags on Manzel, but what about the two guys who kept getting in his face? He was provoked. Why didn't they get any criticism? Defensive guys were signing mock autographs, pointing at him, getting in his grill, etc. Yet, when the kid finally goes off, it's all his fault?
It comes with the territory. LeBron's dealt with that his whole career, starting at a time when his maturity level probably wasn't ready for it.
It's called professionalism.
If you want to shut them up, there's a real quick way to do it, that's far more effective than running your mouth.
Not to mention...it's the opener against Rice. It's a little more understood if it's a rivalry game, or there's something on the line.
Running your mouth against an opening day creampuff isn't the best look.
Quote: Everyone rags on Manzel, but what about the two guys who kept getting in his face? He was provoked. Why didn't they get any criticism? Defensive guys were signing mock autographs, pointing at him, getting in his grill, etc. Yet, when the kid finally goes off, it's all his fault?
Do you think Oregon players didnt talk smack to Cam Newton in the title game? Cam kept his cool and didn't retaliate.
Manziel hasn't done anything that people like Michael Jordan, Bird, Reggie, T.O., Mawse, Richard Sherman, Ray Lewis, Ali, Jim Brown, and so many other players have trash talked just like Manziel has and will. And so be it, if you don't like it, then stop him. But don't crucify him because you wanted him to be the next Tim Tebow.
I don't want to get in between yall and your Manziel talk, but #5 Georgia vs #8 Clemson is a hell of a game. Its reported that 22 NFL scouts are in attendance and Im sure all NFL teams are watching. Good game, especially for you armchair GMs at home.
Even with Gordon and Little, Id take Sammy Watkins with a mid 1st round pick.
Tahj Boyd has dropped some NFL caliber dimes to guys tonight, just incredible accuracy. He has every physical tool I want from a QB. He just needs to polish his footwork and reading defenses.
as for Manziel. I kinda love the spunk and moxie. We as a society hate the boring players that you dont see give any personality and Manziel just shows spunk with some attitude and we dont like it.
I dont know...I think that if you can back it up and get it done...you can say/do whatever you want. If it doesnt affect your game...do it. I like that hes a .. He has some attitude and I like it. I dont necessarily support cocky, but if you can back it up and it doesnt negatively affect you or your team...why not. It just makes the opponents more mad and helps get them off their game cuz their focus leaves the game and focuses on getting the guy they dont like.
Its unfortunate Georgias QB is like 1-10 against top 10 teams. He might get the knock on him that he cant win big games, but he is in the SEC against Alabama, LSU, and Florida. Brady Quinn couldn't win big games either but Georgias QB will be better in the NFL than Brady Quinn.
I hope not. That means we'll be picking in the top 5 in at least one of the next 3 years. Wouldn't mind having him, but like Teddy, Tahj, and RG3 before them, they'll be just out of our grasp.
I wouldn't mind a David Fales though. He looks pretty nice and polished.
I guess it makes sense why A&M kept him from the media up until that Bama game last year. Should have kept that stranglehold. Im just very glad that Braxton Miller is a class act who actually tries to avoid trouble ( Terrelle Pryor was known to be a real piece of garbage around campus when i went there and was almost as bad as Manziel). Manziel continues to confirm my theory that anyone who in any way supports LeBron James is a DBag and a clueless ignorant scumbag.
Bridgewater is playing a crap Ohio team, but he has made a couple of pretty awesome throws. One throw he was pressured, rolled out to his right, and threw a perfect ball about 30 yards downfield for a touchdown.
First time I REALLY watched Bridgewater. Unreal!!!
This kid is good. I can't believe how accurate he is. He throws those swing passes and outs perfectly. The guys never slow down. He is the real deal and he will be the #1 overall pick in the next draft.
Quote: First time I REALLY watched Bridgewater. Unreal!!!
This kid is good. I can't believe how accurate he is. He throws those swing passes and outs perfectly. The guys never slow down. He is the real deal and he will be the #1 overall pick in the next draft.
Maybe. I'd still pick the Freak in front of him if both QB and DE were holes.
Based on the money QB's get, I wouldn't say all positions are equally important.
Thinking Clowney is better at DE than Bridgewater is at QB is one thing, but if you don't have a franchise QB and you're sitting at a pick where you can get one, and you pass for a DE, you're a joke of a franchise.
Quote: Based on the money QB's get, I wouldn't say all positions are equally important.
Thinking Clowney is better at DE than Bridgewater is at QB is one thing, but if you don't have a franchise QB and you're sitting at a pick where you can get one, and you pass for a DE, you're a joke of a franchise.
I think with the expansion of a passing game/media love affair growing stronger every passing year since Broadway Joe, we have a false sense of perception that QB is of utmost importance. At the end every position (Minus outliers like kicker, punter, LS, KR, etc., etc.) serves as equally important. We've seen just as many teams succeed in the playoffs with bad QBs and good running games and/or defensive games as teams that have more of a passing offense. At the end of the day it's just about the coach's gameplan. Though I will say if you do pick a DE over a QB you better expect some harsh backlash from the fans.
There may have been some that succeed in the playoffs, but they rarely win the SB. Outside of Dilfer, who wasn't an elite QB in recent history who won it all?
Both Eli and Ben weren't elite during their first SB win. I still wouldn't call Flaco elite either, though he is close to it. So that's 1/2 of the QB's who won it are elite (Mannings, and Ben), but since the SB winners are the most talented team in the entire NFL, it'd make sense for them to have some of the best at all positions, not to mention the repeat winners will also throw off stats. If you really want to see how equal a QB matters, you should look at least at SB contenders which would still be at 50% having elite QBs and 50% having good ones (Did the last 10 years considering the NE skews it a bit), but truthfully you'll want to look at who is getting in the playoffs, and where their strength lies for a better understanding on it.
They way Ben, Eli, and Joe all played in the playoffs their SB year was pretty elite.
Joe last year was phenomenal in the playoffs... and got paid very well for it.... same with Eli, he played out of his mind for both his SB runs.
I'm in agreement... if there is a franchise QB on the board and we need one and don't take one we'd be the stupidest team in the league.
with that said, we can argue all day over Clowney vs Bridgewater.... both I think will do very well in the NFL... but it'd be a good debate on who would fair better.
Quote: Based on the money QB's get, I wouldn't say all positions are equally important.
Thinking Clowney is better at DE than Bridgewater is at QB is one thing, but if you don't have a franchise QB and you're sitting at a pick where you can get one, and you pass for a DE, you're a joke of a franchise.
I agree.
For example ....... I love what JJ Watt has done, and I think that he is an absolutely incredible player ...... probably one of the top 3 best defensive player in the league (and maybe THE best) ......... and I would still take Luck over him.
Quote: They way Ben, Eli, and Joe all played in the playoffs their SB year was pretty elite.
Joe last year was phenomenal in the playoffs... and got paid very well for it.... same with Eli, he played out of his mind for both his SB runs.
I'm in agreement... if there is a franchise QB on the board and we need one and don't take one we'd be the stupidest team in the league.
with that said, we can argue all day over Clowney vs Bridgewater.... both I think will do very well in the NFL... but it'd be a good debate on who would fair better.
Ben had an awful superbowl. If it wasn't for the refs, they would have completely blew it. I don't think Ben threw above 40% in that game. Eli had an OK game, but I'll give you Flacco as he actually had a good game.
Again, it really depends on how your team is set up on who you should draft. I'd rather have Luck than Watt too, because I think our team needs a QB not a DT. But if I'm the Raiders, I'd have to pick Clowney, because when you draft a QB and don't give him an o-line, wr and a running game*, things get messy quickly.
*Darren McFadden counts as 1/3 of a running game as he'll most likely just play 1/3 of any given season.
Well, here's the thing about using best players as a measurement.
Last year we could say that ILB was just as important as QB or RB, as both teams had some of the best at that position. Two years ago we could have said it be DE, as they both had probowlers. Three years ago, OLBs. Four years ago Safeties. It just so happens that the most talented teams in each division have a lot of extremely talented players. Saying that the QB was the most important reason they got their is narrow minded.
If you really want to pick a piece that got them there, it's no one who is playing, it's the coach. Because those coaches who won that superbowl are all first ballot HoFers. A great coach is what you need the most, and unfortunately the hardest thing to find.
I see your point, but I wouldn't consider Dalton/Stafford great QB's either. I'd take Kaepernick over both of them and it isn't even close.
Looking at it from the other side. John Fox was fired in Carolina. Now he has Peyton Manning and is widely thought to be representing the AFC in this year's championship.
Mike Shanahan's teams in Denver were very bad ... after Elway retired. He then got RG3 and made the playoffs.
Pete Carroll bounced around the league. He made the playoffs with Wilson.
Quote: I see your point, but I wouldn't consider Dalton/Stafford great QB's either. I'd take Kaepernick over both of them and it isn't even close.
Looking at it from the other side. John Fox was fired in Carolina. Now he has Peyton Manning and is widely thought to be representing the AFC in this year's championship.
Mike Shanahan's teams in Denver were very bad ... after Elway retired. He then got RG3 and made the playoffs.
Pete Carroll bounced around the league. He made the playoffs with Wilson.
I'd take his Alex Smith led teams, and I think I'm the biggest Alex Smith hater around. But Peyton Manning is an outlier. I'd rather have him than anyone. I don't even need a coach with him. I don't even need an O-Line. I'll just play 7 vs. 11 with Peyton and still feel like I can go 16-0 with him. He's just a bad man.
Shanahan really doesn't get enough credit. He had some really horrible teams with Denver. TD was really the best thing about the Broncos postElway's retirement, as he was going to be the best RB of that era and one of the best RBs ever. But we all know that he got injured and his career got ruined. But throughout those years being led by Jay Cutler, Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, the list of awful running backs, sans Clinton Portis's few seasons, and he still only had 1 losing season. I would not categorize him as a bad coach at all. He's actually probably the best run first coach since Marty.
False perception. All positions are as equally important, but Clowney is much better at his position than Teddy.
Okay..........I think you are nuts for thinking all positions are equally important. Every head coach and GM in the league says it is a quarterback driven league. Do you know more than them?
Furthermore, I live in Columbia, SC and Clowney isn't all that. He is a physical freak, but he takes a ton of plays off and is often taken advantage of. I actually think Sutton is a better DE than Clowney.
Bridgewater is unreal. He is so, so accurate. So poised. The guy is the real deal. He'll be a much better NFL player than Clowney and it will be a position that is more important.
Please don't misunderstand. Clowney will go before Sutton in the draft.
I am saying that Sutton plays his position better. He is much more stout against the run. He seals his edge, which Clowney doesn't.
It's not news for people down here. Clowney has had conditioning issues. He takes plays off. He charges up field and loses containment. He is easily sealed.
Yes, he is a freak. He makes huge plays. He just isn't fundamentally sound or in very good shape.
Oh...............and Sutton is a very underrated player.
False perception. All positions are as equally important, but Clowney is much better at his position than Teddy.
Okay..........I think you are nuts for thinking all positions are equally important. Every head coach and GM in the league says it is a quarterback driven league. Do you know more than them?
Furthermore, I live in Columbia, SC and Clowney isn't all that. He is a physical freak, but he takes a ton of plays off and is often taken advantage of. I actually think Sutton is a better DE than Clowney.
Bridgewater is unreal. He is so, so accurate. So poised. The guy is the real deal. He'll be a much better NFL player than Clowney and it will be a position that is more important.
the best teams in the NFL do not live and die by their QB's. The good teams do, however. This causes many to think that QB's are the end all be all. But at the end of the day they're just another piece. If AD goes down the Vikings suck. If AJ Green goes down the Bengals suck. If Peyton Manning goes down the Broncos suck. If the expansion Browns offensive line sucks, everything sucks. Everything is interconnected and interdependent of each other on a team. QB's will touch the ball 100% of the times on offense, and with calling the plays, have made them the figurehead of the offense. This gives them most of the credit when things go wrong, and most of the blame when they don't. However, we know they're just as strong as their weakest link. The best teams have set up their teams to where a Matt Cassell can take over an succeed without missing a beat, despite not being a future HoFer.
Also, there's no way Clowney is not the star jewel of this class. Dude's the biggest physical freak to ever enter the NFL, and also has the skill set to challenge some of the top DE's to come into the draft. Dude still has work to be done and things to be learned, but that's to be expected. Drafting someone who knows exactly what to do ends up in Brady Quinn/Robo situations where they've peaked before their first NFL snap.
Quote: If Peyton Manning goes down the Broncos suck.
i completely disagree with your premise that the QB isn't the most important position. heck, in my 7yo's flag football league, it's still the most important.
however, a further fail by not noting that Denver won a playoff game the year before Peyton with Tebow at QB.
Quote: If Peyton Manning goes down the Broncos suck.
i completely disagree with your premise that the QB isn't the most important position. heck, in my 7yo's flag football league, it's still the most important.
however, a further fail by not noting that Denver won a playoff game the year before Peyton with Tebow at QB.
Well your 7 yo's flag football league is not very much a good example for how intricate the NFL is. The NCAA is where you don't need a Davey O'Brien award winner to put up a Championship team. That's a much better comparison to a flag football league.
Also, Denver is not coached by the same man who coached that Tebow team. Nor do they have Tebow. Tebow is a weird dude, like Colt, he had this great ability to win football games without being a good QB. And as much as I love Brock Osweiler standing 6'8 and throwing the ball farther than any NASA mission has gone ever, but dude just doesn't have the Tebow x-factor.
Quote: the best teams in the NFL do not live and die by their QB's. The good teams do, however. This causes many to think that QB's are the end all be all. But at the end of the day they're just another piece.
Wow.
Just because the Pats lucked out and had Cassell have a great season doesn't mean that this can happen elsewhere.
Some teams plan their QB succession well, so that an Aaron Rodgers is ready to take over when Brett Favre is out ....... but many teams suffer when their franchise QB ends his run. How did Buffalo do after Jim Kelly left? How about us and Bernie? Miami and Dan Marino? The Broncos plummeted after Elway left until they got Plummer, then he left and they went through Cutler, and Orton, and Tebow ...... without a single winning season .... until last year when Peyton Manning came aboard.
Now some teams can build up their run game and defense to the point where they can win games with a modest level QB ..... but it is much, much harder to take that route than to go find a great QB who makes the rest of his team better.
Where would the Pats be, long term, without Brady? How about the Saints and Brees? The Steelers and Roethlisberger? (and they are probably one of the teams closest to the philosophy you espouse) Would the Colts have won 11 games last year without Luck?
A QB cannot do it all by himself. Obviously he needs some help. However, to dismiss the need for a top quality QB in today's NFL with today's rules is more than a little ridiculous.
however, a further fail by not noting that Denver won a playoff game the year before Peyton with Tebow at QB.
Didn't they go in at 8-8?
It was great that they beat Pittsburgh. In fact, the Steelers were lucky to even be in that game (Broncos were up big), but what happened the next week? Reality check. They were blown out of the water by New England.
I don't think any of us are saying that QB solves everything, but with the way this league has gone with passing schemes and coaching, and now adding in some wrinkles from college offenses, you need to be better than slightly above average there.
You still need to have a very good defense to win. You need other players. Nobody is saying you just get a good QB and you're all of a sudden a contender, because we know that's not true (Stafford)
I'm of the sort that believes the terms "franchise" QB and "elite" QB are not one in the same. I don't think it has to do with SB's either.
I think Jay Cutler is a franchise QB. There's no controversy when training camp starts about who the guy is. He's the man there. But is he elite? I say no.
Romo has been a franchise guy too. Elite? Anyone wanna put that tag on him?
Quote: I live in Columbia, SC now. I can tell you it was miserable here. It was in the low 90s and the Dew Point was in the 70s. I was sweating sitting in the shade. The air was so thick it was hard to breathe. I couldn't believe the announcers didn't bring that fact up.
They did. The announcers mentioned the heat and humidity several times when talking about the players sort of dragging...
Quote: the best teams in the NFL do not live and die by their QB's. The good teams do, however. This causes many to think that QB's are the end all be all. But at the end of the day they're just another piece.
Wow.
Just because the Pats lucked out and had Cassell have a great season doesn't mean that this can happen elsewhere.
Some teams plan their QB succession well, so that an Aaron Rodgers is ready to take over when Brett Favre is out ....... but many teams suffer when their franchise QB ends his run. How did Buffalo do after Jim Kelly left? How about us and Bernie? Miami and Dan Marino? The Broncos plummeted after Elway left until they got Plummer, then he left and they went through Cutler, and Orton, and Tebow ...... without a single winning season .... until last year when Peyton Manning came aboard.
Now some teams can build up their run game and defense to the point where they can win games with a modest level QB ..... but it is much, much harder to take that route than to go find a great QB who makes the rest of his team better.
Where would the Pats be, long term, without Brady? How about the Saints and Brees? The Steelers and Roethlisberger? (and they are probably one of the teams closest to the philosophy you espouse) Would the Colts have won 11 games last year without Luck?
A QB cannot do it all by himself. Obviously he needs some help. However, to dismiss the need for a top quality QB in today's NFL with today's rules is more than a little ridiculous.
Matt Cassel isn't that good. There's a reason that Brady Quinn started over him, and it's not because RC is a fan of Brady Quinn.
I don't care enough about the Bills to look into that, but after the Browns dropped Bernie, they went 11-5. Then well Broncos only had one losing season after Elway left, and Shanananananana only had two seasons with Jay Cuter, one they went to the playoffs, one 7-9 season, and one 8-8 season. The Dolphins had some really good seasons after Marino left.
Drew Breese is an elite QB, but also have an elite coach, and had some elite players around him. Without Drew that team would probably have gone the same way, but he obviously made the team better.
Pats long term, without Brady, would probably have a better run game. Probably would have a better defense too. After all those defenses won them the first few championships. Unless you think that anyone could hold the Greatest Show on Turf below 20 points.
The Colts have made it clear that they will live and die with their Quarterback.
Look, I get the need of a good QB. However, you don't need a Peyton or a Marino to win championships. And while you think it's easier to find a top 5 QB rather than build a team, please look at the success of teams that don't live and die by their QB, because they're often more successful.
Feb. 2013: Baltimore, Flacco, Flacco Feb. 2012: Giants, Manning, Manning Feb 2011: Packers, Rodgers, Rodgers Feb 2010: Saints, Brees, Brees Feb 2009: Giants, Manning, Manning Feb 2008: Colts P. Manning, P. Manning Feb 2007: Pittsburgh, Roethlisberger, Ward Feb 2006: Patriots, Brady, Branch Feb 2005: Patriots, Brady, Brady Feb 2004: Bucs, Johnson, Jackson
So ..... in the past 10 Super Bowls, the winning QB was the MVP.
In 7 of 10 Super Bowls, the QB was the MVP. With the changes in passing rules, this isn't a surprise. The NFL wants an exciting, wide open passing game, and they have adjusted their rules to make this happen. They have rewarded teams that have found top end QBs, and those teams with average to below QB play are penalized. (even if they have good running games and defenses)
How many playoff games has Adrian Peterson played in in the course of his first 6 years in the NFL? How many playoff games has his team won?
As for your comments about Quinn ..... the reason that Quinn started last year, initially, was the Cassell was hurt IIRC. Then desperation took over, and RAC was trying to make chicken soup out of the crap he had at QB. How did that work for him? Charles ran for over 1500 yards last year. How good were the Chefs with their 2 headed monster at QB?
You need a plus level QB to win consistently in today's NFL. The rules are set up to make passing the ball easier, and if you cannot pass the ball, you just don't win. (and yeah, there might be one year examples where a team without stellar QB play makes the playoffs here or there, but generally speaking, the best QB wins.
I think that is the case for the Texans. That team is set up for a deep playoff run, even a SB appearance. Schaub is a nice QB, but if he's a franchise guy, he's barely one, and I don't think he's anywhere near elite.
If they can keep things intact there, I think the guy that replaces Schaub is probably the guy to take them to the big game.
You might even be able to say that for our Browns in a few years, if they keep stockpiling good talent like they have the last couple years.
As for your comments about Quinn ..... the reason that Quinn started last year, initially, was the Cassell was hurt IIRC. Then desperation took over, and RAC was trying to make chicken soup out of the crap he had at QB. How did that work for him?
Quinn further demonstrated why he is not worthy to be called a NFL starting QB. Go figure that the Jets would pick him up. Good kid and etc, but wow just horrible when behind center. Quinn really, and JMO, should've been packing up his cleats and applying at Walmart.
Quote: Look, I get the need of a good QB. However, you don't need a Peyton or a Marino to win championships. And while you think it's easier to find a top 5 QB rather than build a team, please look at the success of teams that don't live and die by their QB, because they're often more successful.
If you are going to compete for and win multiple championships you better have a very good QB.. I'll stop short of saying elite but he better be able to orchestrate some clutch drives when it counts because inevitably he's going to be asked to do that to win a playoff game or two.
Great teams who are consistently at the top are really good in more than one area and QB is usually one of them... and they usually aren't horrible in any areas...
Feb. 2013: Baltimore, Flacco, Flacco Feb. 2012: Giants, Manning, Manning Feb 2011: Packers, Rodgers, Rodgers Feb 2010: Saints, Brees, Brees Feb 2009: Giants, Manning, Manning Feb 2008: Colts P. Manning, P. Manning Feb 2007: Pittsburgh, Roethlisberger, Ward Feb 2006: Patriots, Brady, Branch Feb 2005: Patriots, Brady, Brady Feb 2004: Bucs, Johnson, Jackson
So ..... in the past 10 Super Bowls, the winning QB was the MVP.
In 7 of 10 Super Bowls, the QB was the MVP. With the changes in passing rules, this isn't a surprise. The NFL wants an exciting, wide open passing game, and they have adjusted their rules to make this happen. They have rewarded teams that have found top end QBs, and those teams with average to below QB play are penalized. (even if they have good running games and defenses)
How many playoff games has Adrian Peterson played in in the course of his first 6 years in the NFL? How many playoff games has his team won?
As for your comments about Quinn ..... the reason that Quinn started last year, initially, was the Cassell was hurt IIRC. Then desperation took over, and RAC was trying to make chicken soup out of the crap he had at QB. How did that work for him? Charles ran for over 1500 yards last year. How good were the Chefs with their 2 headed monster at QB?
You need a plus level QB to win consistently in today's NFL. The rules are set up to make passing the ball easier, and if you cannot pass the ball, you just don't win. (and yeah, there might be one year examples where a team without stellar QB play makes the playoffs here or there, but generally speaking, the best QB wins.
I won't deny that within the past 10 years the passing game has gotten OD easy. It still does not make the QB position any more important than the rest of the team. Well, I'll take that back. There are teams that invest everything into the QB position and win and die by it. And the wins are high, but the deaths can be awful too.
Looking at those teams, we can see who built around a QB who built the QB.
Who built the QB: Colts, Saints Who built the team first: Pats, NY, Ravens, Steelers, Greenbay* *Truthfully, I'm not sure. They've had their stuff together for so long and I can't even think of their 90's teams, because they were so poorly coached. They should have been to the 90's what the Pats were to the last decade. Holmgren really ruined that team.
Truthfully, using the Vikes and Chiefs are a low shot, because they got no one on defense. But I can say that the Ravens and 49ers have done fine without amazing QBs. Steelers have been fine with Batch (Not SB winning fine, but still very good).
I agree with you. You need a very talented QB to win the superbowl. You also need a very talented RB, WR, O-Line, DE, DT, LB, CB, S, K, P. I think at our point in development, we don't need a Tahj Boyd or a Teddy Bridgewater is needed to be a great football team (But, I'm not going to sit here and act like I wouldn't be praying to every God there is, if it could help us get one), at this point we could do just as successful with a David Fales, Murray*, Kevin Hogan**, or just someone who can make throws but can also be a successful game manager.
*Only counts if he can actually play well vs. a big school this year **No way he's coming out as he'll be the #1 pick in 2 years if Winston doesn't come out early.
Quote: *Truthfully, I'm not sure. They've had their stuff together for so long and I can't even think of their 90's teams, because they were so poorly coached. They should have been to the 90's what the Pats were to the last decade. Holmgren really ruined that team.
wow. first unmitigated hatred for Holmgren has shown through in this thread now too. say what you want about his time in Cleveland, but his time in GB was what people strive to be.
remember, GB had losing seasons in 5 of the 6 years before they hired Holmgren, then he did this:
over .500 all 7 seasons at least 11 wins in the last 4 seasons 2 Superbowl appearances 1 Superbowl win
overall: 75-37 (.670) regular season record 9-5 (.643) playoff record
Quote: *Truthfully, I'm not sure. They've had their stuff together for so long and I can't even think of their 90's teams, because they were so poorly coached. They should have been to the 90's what the Pats were to the last decade. Holmgren really ruined that team.
wow. first unmitigated hatred for Holmgren has shown through in this thread now too. say what you want about his time in Cleveland, but his time in GB was what people strive to be.
remember, GB had losing seasons in 5 of the 6 years before they hired Holmgren, then he did this:
over .500 all 7 seasons at least 11 wins in the last 4 seasons 2 Superbowl appearances 1 Superbowl win
overall: 75-37 (.670) regular season record 9-5 (.643) playoff record
Quote: Looking at those teams, we can see who built around a QB who built the QB.
Who built the QB: Colts, Saints Who built the team first: Pats, NY, Ravens, Steelers, Greenbay*
I think you are way over simplifying these debate. The Colts had drafted Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk, Jeff Saturday, Reggie Wayne all +/- a couple years away from taking Manning.... The Saints acquired Brees in FA because he was available... they also had Deuce McAllister, Joe Horn, Donte Stallworth, and some decent players on defense like Will Smith..
Your assumption seems to be that if the Steelers had the #1 pick in 1998, with the dynamic duo of Kordell Stewart and Mike Tomczak on the roster that they would have passed on Manning to "build the team"... The simple fact is that there aren't that many guys who have that "can't miss" label coming out of college and if you don't already have one, and you have the chance to get one, you take him... I don't care what the rest of your roster looks like.
Quote: *Truthfully, I'm not sure. They've had their stuff together for so long and I can't even think of their 90's teams, because they were so poorly coached. They should have been to the 90's what the Pats were to the last decade. Holmgren really ruined that team.
wow. first unmitigated hatred for Holmgren has shown through in this thread now too. say what you want about his time in Cleveland, but his time in GB was what people strive to be.
remember, GB had losing seasons in 5 of the 6 years before they hired Holmgren, then he did this:
over .500 all 7 seasons at least 11 wins in the last 4 seasons 2 Superbowl appearances 1 Superbowl win
overall: 75-37 (.670) regular season record 9-5 (.643) playoff record
And he should have went to 4.
I cannot wait until a FO/HC finally gets it right here and people are complaining that we didn't beat out teams for the SB like the 1993/94/95 Aikman Dallas Cowboy teams and 1998 Steve Young SF 49ers (those are the ONLY teams he lost to in the NFC playoffs)
Quote: Looking at those teams, we can see who built around a QB who built the QB.
Who built the QB: Colts, Saints Who built the team first: Pats, NY, Ravens, Steelers, Greenbay*
I think you are way over simplifying these debate. The Colts had drafted Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk, Jeff Saturday, Reggie Wayne all +/- a couple years away from taking Manning.... The Saints acquired Brees in FA because he was available... they also had Deuce McAllister, Joe Horn, Donte Stallworth, and some decent players on defense like Will Smith..
Your assumption seems to be that if the Steelers had the #1 pick in 1998, with the dynamic duo of Kordell Stewart and Mike Tomczak on the roster that they would have passed on Manning to "build the team"... The simple fact is that there aren't that many guys who have that "can't miss" label coming out of college and if you don't already have one, and you have the chance to get one, you take him... I don't care what the rest of your roster looks like.
No, I agree with that. All I'm saying is QB is not more or less important than any other position.
Quote: *Truthfully, I'm not sure. They've had their stuff together for so long and I can't even think of their 90's teams, because they were so poorly coached. They should have been to the 90's what the Pats were to the last decade. Holmgren really ruined that team.
wow. first unmitigated hatred for Holmgren has shown through in this thread now too. say what you want about his time in Cleveland, but his time in GB was what people strive to be.
remember, GB had losing seasons in 5 of the 6 years before they hired Holmgren, then he did this:
over .500 all 7 seasons at least 11 wins in the last 4 seasons 2 Superbowl appearances 1 Superbowl win
overall: 75-37 (.670) regular season record 9-5 (.643) playoff record
And he should have went to 4.
I cannot wait until a FO/HC finally gets it right here and people are complaining that we didn't beat out teams for the SB like the 1993/94/95 Aikman Dallas Cowboy teams and 1998 Steve Young SF 49ers (those are the ONLY teams he lost to in the NFC playoffs)
Well hopefully we're complaining about why we're not winning all the championships
Quote: All I'm saying is QB is not more or less important than any other position.
That's just ridiculous.
Yep, I agree.
Certain positions are far more important than others. How many $100 million punters do you see on NFL teams? How many $100 million long snappers do you find on NFL teams? If all positions are the same as far as importance, then they would be paid the same as well.
Quote: and OGs and FSs would go in the top 5 of the draft in the same percentage as QBs...
I think this has more to do with talent of these positions, a long with holes, and importance thought on QB's being quick fixes.
I'm also starting to feel bad about dereailing the thread so horribly with my ideas, and this will be my last post on the subject. If you want to continue this in PM, then feel free and I'll respond. However, as a final point, I'd just like to say the Coach is the most important thing on the field.
Now who wants to talk about how my boy, Duke Johnson, is going to run past Florida that he'll end up lapping that entire team?
The best, most talented FB in the world is not going to go #1 overall in any draft.(today's version of the FB) Ever. The value, and ability to help the team win is just not there. Even RBs are devalued in today's passing league. The best FB in the world is not going to bring a $100 million deal.
I understand that all players have value to their teams, bt to suggest that all positions are equal if to disregard the realities of the NFL. A great QB is worth more than any other position. Do you think that the Colts would have won 11 games if they had not taken Luck, and had played the year with .... say ...... Kellen Clemons?
Quote: and this will be my last post on the subject.
And I will respect that as I don't think we are ever going to agree... and it's not that important that we do any way.
Quote: Now who wants to talk about how my boy, Duke Johnson, is going to run past Florida that he'll end up lapping that entire team?
Nah, let's talk about the #5 rated QB in the country after week 1... CJ Brown from Maryland who was 20-23 for 281 yards and 3 TDs.. and ran 11 times for 105 yards and 2 TDs...
And the way the schedule sets up, they should be 4-0 when they beat Florida State and 7-0 when they play Clemson.
Stephen Morris makes me so upset, because at times he looks like the complete package and at other times he can look so bad. But it still was an impressive win by The U.
Good news about Miller. This SDSU qb is awful. He's missing open receivers by a mile. I realize there's pressure, but he's not even close. Kind of sad that Brian Sipe is their qb coach.
During the broadcast they mentioned its because of special teams. I think it's so Rod Smith and Christian Bryant can both play special teams (both were wearing #2).
Yes he did. I was impressed with Georgia today. I was pulling for them after the loss last week to be honest. Plus, I'm already tired of hearing about Clowney.
The Georgia win today makes the Clemson win last week look even more impressive. I could see them start to climb even higher in the polls each week if the teams above them have sloppy games.
I am already looking forward to the Clemson vs Florida State game later this season.
LSU is looking really strong this year. Zach Metzenburger looks to have really improved from last season. The Tigers always run the ball well and play good defense the QB play was the missing link last season. Alabama will have their hands full with the Tigers if he continues to play like he has these first 2 weeks.
Quote: The Georgia win today makes the Clemson win last week look even more impressive. I could see them start to climb even higher in the polls each week if the teams above them have sloppy games.
I am already looking forward to the Clemson vs Florida State game later this season.
Florida State will have already lost to Maryland by then...
When is the last time that in week 2, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina had all lost a game already? Props to the ACC for knocking off 2 top 10 SEC teams...
I haven't had a chance to see Maryland play yet this year, I watched Florida State and they have unreal talent at the skill positions. If Maryland is that good then the ACC will be pretty awesome this season. Idid watch the Florida vs Miami game today. Florida whipped them up and down the field except in the red zone. The Gators need better QB play.
Quote: Devin Gardner must have been sipping from the same cup as Eminem.
No kidding. That was just bizarre. What was he thinking?
On a side note, this is the first time in my life I have ever rooted for ND in this game. Michigan fans have been absolutely obnoxious this year towards Buckeye fans. Growing up in Toledo, I have a lot of friends who are Michigan fans, and the amount of crap I've seen come across Facebook from them is monumental. I've saved every message of smack I have received from them and hope to be able to throw it back in their faces late in the day on November 30th
Not sure if I saw it right, but did Aaron Murray just win a big game and put up really impressive numbers against a good team?
Yes, hes 1-9 against top 10 teams and just beat a #11 ranked team. He looked good to. I remember Brady Quinn couldn't win big games and had to have his teammates pull some stuff out of their butts to help him come from behind against lesser teams. Im comparing the two because come draft time, it will be said about both that they cant win big games. But I never liked what I saw from Quinn and already like what I see from Murray. Murray will be picked maybe 2 rounds later than Quinn but have a way better career. I think it would make since for Cle, KC, Jax, Minn, and Tenn to all take a look at him to start 3 years from now.
For those who think the Browns need depth at ILB, keep an eye on Miami's #52 Denzell Perryman. He is only a Jr. but he plays both OLB and MLB. He is listed as the teams OLB, but has started at MLB as a So. He is listed at 6'0 and 252.
He might not even come out this year but when I was watching the Miami- Florida game, watching him made me think he could be a future player at ILB and selected in rounds 2-4.
I think the real sleeper at ILB is going to be Andrew Jackson. He gets a lot of comparison to Ray Lewis, mainly because they're from the same hometown, but most of the comparisons aren't unfounded, as dude will try to obliterate everything he sees. He just doesn't go for the kill when making tackles, he's trying to wipe your existence out of the universe. Nasty man right there.
I still think C.J. Mosely is the best bet at ILB for us. Just because he can do it all, he's silky smooth.and looks to be one of the best LBers that Bama has ever made. Unfortunately Bama doesn't have the best track record for LBers in the pros.
Quote: For those who think the Browns need depth at ILB, keep an eye on Miami's #52 Denzell Perryman. He is only a Jr. but he plays both OLB and MLB. He is listed as the teams OLB, but has started at MLB as a So. He is listed at 6'0 and 252.
He might not even come out this year but when I was watching the Miami- Florida game, watching him made me think he could be a future player at ILB and selected in rounds 2-4.
That is funny that I saw you say this because I literally had the same thoughts when I watched him play. Man, he is all over the field, has great make up speed, and is really good in pass coverage. He would be ideal in Horton's 3-4 as an ILB IMO. He is very impressive ... great minds think alike
ACC is strong this year. I consider the ACC to include Louisville (and not Maryland) as that is where those teams are going to land soon. Really good for them this year so far.
conversely, BigXII is terrible this year. Outside of Baylor, all the teams have looked pretty weak this year and we don't know about Baylor yet. OU should be able to roll a team like WVU who seems to be terrible this year. Ugly start to the year for them.
Big10 is a bit better than the past couple years, but not enough. OSU, Michigan, NW, and Nebraska (well, maybe) look capable enough. MichSt. and PSU behind them. And, not sure where that came from with the Illini.
also, Gardner actually looked like a QB in that game. he had his miscues, but alot of those passes were laser accurate and leading the WRs open.
Pac12 hasn't changed. Stanford, Oregon and everybody else.
love how the SEC smartly scattered intriguing conference games the first few weeks. other conferences should copy that plan. they still have 6 very, very good teams though we'll see what happens as Clemson, Louisville, FSU, Stanford, and Oregon all look plenty capable of beating any of them (or losing --- just saying they are catching up in that arms race).
I think Oklahoma State probably wins the big 12. I fully expect Mack Brown to retire at years end. The game has passed him by just like it did John Cooper. Even Bob Stoops has lost some his luster. Not too long ago he was the top coach in the game. Use to win every big game, now he can't win any of them.
The best two teams I've seen are Oregon and Florida State. I don't think bama 3 peats. They lost too much on the line, I could see them losing Saturday. Lsu is the best team in the sec. Their Qb has improved so much over last year.
My top 5 Oregon Florida State Lsu Ohio State Alabama
Quote: I agree. Their schedule is so incredibly easy, it's hard not to imagine them going at least 11-1. I think MIchigan is the only game they could lose.
Wisconsin always plays us tough.
Then, the week after the Badgers we visit the team that might be the best team in the Big10 this year. Yeah, no joke, NW looks pretty good (I "think" the Buckeyes and Wolverines are better, but I'm not sure yet is all and I think that will be a tough game).
ACC is strong this year. I consider the ACC to include Louisville (and not Maryland) as that is where those teams are going to land soon. Really good for them this year so far.
conversely, BigXII is terrible this year. Outside of Baylor, all the teams have looked pretty weak this year and we don't know about Baylor yet. OU should be able to roll a team like WVU who seems to be terrible this year. Ugly start to the year for them.
Big10 is a bit better than the past couple years, but not enough. OSU, Michigan, NW, and Nebraska (well, maybe) look capable enough. MichSt. and PSU behind them. And, not sure where that came from with the Illini.
also, Gardner actually looked like a QB in that game. he had his miscues, but alot of those passes were laser accurate and leading the WRs open.
Pac12 hasn't changed. Stanford, Oregon and everybody else.
love how the SEC smartly scattered intriguing conference games the first few weeks. other conferences should copy that plan. they still have 6 very, very good teams though we'll see what happens as Clemson, Louisville, FSU, Stanford, and Oregon all look plenty capable of beating any of them (or losing --- just saying they are catching up in that arms race).
Great post. I agree with your opservations. The ACC has some very togh teams. If Louisville were in that conference this season it would be quite compelling.
This could be the year that the SEC does not win the championship. With that said Nick Saban's team is still very talented and will get better every game. He is that good of a coach. I loved him as a coach back when he was the Browns Defensive Coordinator. I think they will beat A&M this weekend but if Metzenburger keeps playing the way he is LSU will be a war again. Bama is at home this year also.
Georgia will still be a team to be heard from this year. Props to them for having the guts to start their season will 2 top 10 teams Clemson and South Carolina. That kind of early schedule could pay big dividends for them later this season if this year turns into a year of upsets.
It looks right now that the biggest games of the regular season will be.
Clemson vs Florida State Lsu vs Alabama Oregon vs Stanford Ohio State vs Michigan - This game could be sooo good they will play it 2 weeks in a row.
I am of the firm opinion that Louisville is not that much better than Maryland this year. Louisville is going to feast on an almost comically easy schedule and shouldn't lose a game while Maryland has to play WVU, Florida State, Clemson, a VaTech team that shut down Alabama's offense... so I doubt Maryland will finish as high as Louisville but in a head to head match-up, I think Maryland could hold their own.
And yes, the rest of the ACC is in a pretty good place right now.
Quote: I agree. Their schedule is so incredibly easy, it's hard not to imagine them going at least 11-1. I think MIchigan is the only game they could lose.
Wisconsin always plays us tough.
Then, the week after the Badgers we visit the team that might be the best team in the Big10 this year. Yeah, no joke, NW looks pretty good (I "think" the Buckeyes and Wolverines are better, but I'm not sure yet is all and I think that will be a tough game).
Northwestern is legit. I don't know about best team in the Big Ten, but I think they are a legitimate top 25 ranked team. They're well coached, and disciplined. I think Pat Fitzgerald is there for the long haul as well. I hope so because he's good for the conference. I've kept an eye on them the last few years and you could see it coming.
They're also trying to combat other fans filling up their stadium for games. You currently have to bid on tickets for OSU or UM. You can't just buy single game tickets, although if you have the extra money, the season ticket package is just a little bit more. I thought about it. Maybe if I had an immediate buyer for the Michigan game.
DC, more power to you for your belief in your team. And, yes, Louisville's schedule is ridiculous (though don't put WVU in your argument as I think they are terrible this year).
It comes down to your QB and your defense in college though and the Cardinals have Bridgewater. That certainly helps matters a ton. And, I really, really want an Orange Bowl with Clemson v. Louisville so hopefully we can see how good they are.
Quote: And, yes, Louisville's schedule is ridiculous (though don't put WVU in your argument as I think they are terrible this year).
Yea, WVU is hard to figure this year.. squeaked out a 7 point win over William and Mary, then hung tough with Oklahoma... who knows.
Quote: It comes down to your QB and your defense in college though and the Cardinals have Bridgewater.
Neither L'ville or Maryland has played anybody of any consequence yet but through 2 games...
Bridgewater - 46/60, 752 yards, 9 TDs, 1 INT, Long 54, 2 rushes for 0 yards
CJ Brown - 34/45, 556 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, Long 66, 15 rushes for 130 yards and 4 TDs
But Brown is never going to have the passing numbers Bridgewater has because in 2 40 point wins, Louisville has still thrown the ball as often as they run it, Maryland in 2 30 point wins has run it 30 more times than they have thrown it... and they have scored 6 of their TDs on the ground (4 by the QB).. L'ville has scored 90 points in 2 games and has 2 rushing TDs...
I'm not saying Bridgewater isn't the real deal, I just don't believe Louisville would be a top 10 team in a real conference...
This is my "overreaction mock draft." Yes, it's not the day after a Browns game without talking draft I'm hoping that we sign a #2 CB in free agency, which is why I don't have us drafting one. I also want to see how our safeties perform. None of them got beat deep and they did a tremendous job on Mike Wallace.
1. Tahj Boyd, QB, Clemson 2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt 3. Andrew Jackson, ILB, Western Kentucky 3. Xavier Su'a-Filo, OG, UCLA 4. Anthony Steen, OG, Alabama 4. Lamarcus Joyner, FS, Florida State 5. Jared Abbrederis, WR, Wisconsin 6. Ricardo Allen, CB, Purdue 7. Nickoe Whitley, FS, Mississippi State
Quote: This is my "overreaction mock draft." Yes, it's not the day after a Browns game without talking draft I'm hoping that we sign a #2 CB in free agency, which is why I don't have us drafting one. I also want to see how our safeties perform. None of them got beat deep and they did a tremendous job on Mike Wallace.
1. Tahj Boyd, QB, Clemson 2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt 3. Andrew Jackson, ILB, Western Kentucky 3. Xavier Su'a-Filo, OG, UCLA 4. Anthony Steen, OG, Alabama 4. Lamarcus Joyner, FS, Florida State 5. Jared Abbrederis, WR, Wisconsin 6. Ricardo Allen, CB, Purdue 7. Nickoe Whitley, FS, Mississippi State
That kinda draft would fill some immediate glaring weaknesses.
Quote: This is my "overreaction mock draft." Yes, it's not the day after a Browns game without talking draft I'm hoping that we sign a #2 CB in free agency, which is why I don't have us drafting one. I also want to see how our safeties perform. None of them got beat deep and they did a tremendous job on Mike Wallace.
1. Tahj Boyd, QB, Clemson 2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt 3. Andrew Jackson, ILB, Western Kentucky 3. Xavier Su'a-Filo, OG, UCLA 4. Anthony Steen, OG, Alabama 4. Lamarcus Joyner, FS, Florida State 5. Jared Abbrederis, WR, Wisconsin 6. Ricardo Allen, CB, Purdue 7. Nickoe Whitley, FS, Mississippi State
That kinda draft would fill some immediate glaring weaknesses.
Sad thing is, we have been back for 14 years and we are still hoping to fill about 5 starting positions with rookies... and possibly a few others with free agents... our theme song should be "Forever Young" by Rod Stewart.
Quote: I just don't believe Louisville would be a top 10 team in a real conference...
and I'm not so sure about that one. I think they should be somewhere in the 8-12 range, but it would depend on which "real" conference you put them in.
they controlled Florida last year in the Sugar Bowl (and they had a phenomenal defense). since 5 SEC teams get to be in the top10, they would have to be outside the top5 in the SEC. This season, I'd have them roughly in the same neighborhood as Georgia and South Carolina and A&M and ahead of Florida. Behind LSU and Bama.
in the ACC, I'd have them right with FSU and Clemson. Ahead of Miami.
in the Big10, they'd be right up there with everybody.
in the Pac12, they'd be just behind Oregon, Stanford.
in the BigXII, they'd likely run away with it this year (unless Baylor is for real).
overall, this is where I think teams rank (tiers not ordered):
elite Bama, LSU, Oregon, Stanford
could become elite by end of year FSU, Clemson, South Carolina, A&M, Louisville, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia
Quote: and I'm not so sure about that one. I think they should be somewhere in the 8-12 range, but it would depend on which "real" conference you put them in.
they controlled Florida last year in the Sugar Bowl (and they had a phenomenal defense).
I tend to not put 100% faith in what I see in these bowls because of the extended layoff and the fact that some of the bigger schools just aren't up for it if its not the NC game... going by bowl games, Boise State was a top 5 team for a while... It's completely different when you have to play that caliber of team week in and week out, some on the road... playing one a year on a neutral field 6 weeks after the season ended isn't a great barometer.
I just think if they had to play FSU, Clemson, Miami, Maryland, VA Tech or OSU, Michigan, Northwestern, or Alabama, LSU, USC, Georgia... that there is no way they would make it through any of those conference without at least a couple losses....
Like I said, I think they are a very good team, just not elite and using your measure, I'd put them closer to 12-15... which is where teams with 2 losses that aren't in the SEC usually go.
it's a fair point on the bowls (though the Cardinals had a slightly more difficult slate of games last year than they do this season though still not tough).
and we're not far off in our assessments in them anyway.
as for Maryland, I'm interested in what they do Oct. 5th. they 'should' be undefeated going to Tallahasee. I'd love for the future Big10 team to ruin the ACC's hope for an undefeated FSU v. Clemson game, but that is going to be an awfully tall ask.
Personally, I'm not too customed with the differences in rules between college and NFL. I'm curious what you gurus think on this play.
The QB put the ball down on the field and didn't take a knee, I would think that would be a fumble. That would be why the Arizona player jumped on the ball.
If he was considered down by doing that and Arizona jumped on the ball, then that probably should have been a delay of game. In either case, it seems like the refs really screwed this one up.
He actually did take a knee. There's a screenshot going around from behind the play which shows his knee down. I think that's irrelevant because whistles blew the play dead.
Horrible job by the refs. Should have stopped the clock while the ASU player was covering the ball. Wisconsin was robbed, and this is coming from one of their biggest haters.
Quote: as for Maryland, I'm interested in what they do Oct. 5th. they 'should' be undefeated going to Tallahasee.
They are still undefeated after a rather convincing win over WVU... granted this is NOT the BCS contending WVU team from a couple years ago but beating WVU 37-0 is still a good sign.
Quote: I'd love for the future Big10 team to ruin the ACC's hope for an undefeated FSU v. Clemson game, but that is going to be an awfully tall ask.
Yea, beating either of them is a tall task, beating both of them is an extremely tall task. However I will say that the schedule sets up well. Maryland is off this week so they will get FSU after 2 weeks of rest/preparation... then they play Clemson the week after Clemson plays FSU... and Clemson has been known to succumb to hangovers and lose games they shouldn't.. though I'm pretty sure if Maryland is 7-0, or even 6-1 going into the Clemson game, that Clemson won't be overlooking them..
By the way, did you see the unis the Terps wore against WVU? They were awesome....
And on that same note, did you see the unis VaTech is wearing this week? web page For those who don't know, almost the entire campus is made of those giant stones so they made that the helmet... I can't imagine any jokes that could come from having a helmet that looks like a rock wall... I wonder if they have matching "stone gloves"?.. .Greg Little could wear a pair.
Quote: He actually did take a knee. There's a screenshot going around from behind the play which shows his knee down. I think that's irrelevant because whistles blew the play dead.
Horrible job by the refs. Should have stopped the clock while the ASU player was covering the ball. Wisconsin was robbed, and this is coming from one of their biggest haters.
I hate Wisconsin as well and thought they got robbed as well - I really can't figure out what the refs were doing but really the Wisconsin players needed to get up and at least attempt to spike the ball even if the refs were screwing around
Quote: He actually did take a knee. There's a screenshot going around from behind the play which shows his knee down. I think that's irrelevant because whistles blew the play dead.
Horrible job by the refs. Should have stopped the clock while the ASU player was covering the ball. Wisconsin was robbed, and this is coming from one of their biggest haters.
I hate Wisconsin as well and thought they got robbed as well - I really can't figure out what the refs were doing but really the Wisconsin players needed to get up and at least attempt to spike the ball even if the refs were screwing around
Just a really weird ending
Yeah there was no urgency while all that was going on, I'd assume they didn't know the clock was running.
I would have gotten more enjoyment out of that had Bielema still been the coach.
The Buckeyes were the better team and it was a nice win, but as far as NFL talent is concerned, the guys who really shined were on the other side of the field.
Abbrederis made Roby his expletive tonight and may have pushed himself into the first round, and that LB Borland looked really legit, probably at least a second rounder if not a late first.
The frustrating thing is that Borland is from Kettering, he should have been wearing scarlet and gray. Tress screwed the pooch on that one.
I am not thrilled w/Herman as our OC. He's been better this year, but he was relying on Miller running the ball in the second half. It really ruined our continuity and made us bog down quite a bit.
Great job by the run defense, but the pass defense was exposed. It would have been smarter to play more zone in the game. I get why we played man.....it helped the run defense, but there were too many open receivers for Wisconsin.
Nevertheless, good win for Ohio State and next week's game is huge.
A win is a win , unless you are talking Bowl points .. On that score The OU didn't get it done .. Sat on the ball and played the clock all most all the second half .. Very disappointing to me ! Be surprise if we stay at #4 in the polls ..
Abbrederis made Roby his expletive tonight and may have pushed himself into the first round, and that LB Borland looked really legit, probably at least a second rounder if not a late first.
I wouldn't mind having one of those players on the Browns with a 2nd round pick.
Abbrederis would be an upgrade over former 2nd rounder WR Little, could start immediately and move Bess back to 3rd WR. I think he will be a better WR than fellow Big 10 WR Decker who now plays with Manning in Denver.
Borland would be a big addition to an already strong front seven and a good selection. I know its not a must need considering Robertson was playing decent but again, he would be an upgrade and would provide depth. The ILB backups are young and inexperienced. The Browns current FO will take the BPA instead of need. Evident in selecting Mingo when they moved Sheard to OLB and brought in OLBs Groves and Krueger.
Roby played well once he returned against lesser talented teams but was owned by Abbrederis in man coverage. He is a top CB prospect and the WR showed he can play against some of the top college CBs. I would still take Roby with a late 1st rounder. Maybe the Indy pick.
Northwestern is going to be our toughest challenge all year IMO. A pass happy team playing the biggest game in school history. Weather is gonna suck too.
I have liked the football I have seen played by Northwestern for the last 4 or 5 years. When I see their games, or snipets of them, I see things that I think all football teams should be doing when they are doing great. A lot of interceptions. Doing the right things in the offense to mix it up and get various people involved. Getting positive plays out of running and passing and using long and short attacks and being all over the field.
Northwestern doesn't get to play Ohio State every year, only sometimes do they play. The Big 10 conference, as of a couple years ago, had at least 1 bowl victory over an Sec conference team for 8 years running, and no other conference could say that. Last year, or maybe 2 seasons ago, Northwestern's win over I think Vanderbilt, or somebody was the only one to keep that streak going.
Two weeks ago I heard some announcer say Northwestern leads the Nation in interceptions.
Northwestern has a team good enough to beat Ohio State, they will be as motivated as a team can be, with a chance to knock off these blowhard top ranked, with this winning streak so often mentioned even though it didn't include any bowl win, that Ohio state has being the longest in College football division one.
I give Ohio State about a 33% chance to get a win in tonight's game.
And it is only that high, because I really feel Ohio State is the better football team.
too much of the offense goes through Braxton Miller when he is in the game. It's predictable and one dimensional. He has been hindering the team for weeks.
gotta admit... knew this game was gonne be close and so far it's been a pretty good game... really though the turnovers have killed us... but that is northwestern's bread and butter this year
I was surprised they called him down when it was live... thought for sure he got in but then when they ruled him down I figured it was just the camera angle.... keep feeding Hyde!
Hypothetically, if OHio state had been down by 7 and recovered that fumble in the end zone, from the hook an lateral as time clicked to 0, they would have been allowed to kick the extra point. In the NFL they would have been allowed to kick the extra point.
Hypothetically, if OHio state had been down by 7 and recovered that fumble in the end zone, from the hook an lateral as time clicked to 0, they would have been allowed to kick the extra point. In the NFL they would have been allowed to kick the extra point.
But in College; they just don't care.
I got completely screwed on a play like that a few years ago in that wild Texas/Texas Tech. I think it was Michael Crabtree who scored with no time left and the crowd stormed the field, I think the total would have gone over. It was a half point total too so it wasn't even a push.
--Miller is the superior athlete, but I think the team plays better w/Guiton. He is smarter. He gets rid of it quicker. He sees the field better. Other guys get to showcase their talents more. With Miller in, we become the Braxton Miller Show.
--I agree w/those who complained about the soft coverage. It's way too easy for opposing QBs and WRs.
--Hyde ran very hard. He was exhausted. We got some well-timed stoppages of play to give him short breathers. I wonder how long he can last taking that many hits, though?
--Losing Bryant was big. Pittsburgh Brown is pretty bad at safety.
--I like that #63 guy. He could end up being very, very good.
--We need other teams to lose. I doubt if we are gathering many style points.
Quote: We need other teams to lose. I doubt if we are gathering many style points.
#3 Clemson still has to play three ranked teams; FSU, South Carolina, and Maryland. #2 Oregon also still has three ranked teams on their schedule; Stanford, UCLA, and Wash St. There's a decent chance they each finish with one loss. Alabama only plays one ranked team the rest of the way - LSU. OSU has one ranked team left, UM, so we could easily see an OSU - Alabama BCS Championship game.
I have to admit though, Alabama and Oregon appear to be the two best teams.
Quote: We need other teams to lose. I doubt if we are gathering many style points.
#3 Clemson still has to play three ranked teams; FSU, South Carolina, and Maryland. #2 Oregon also still has three ranked teams on their schedule; Stanford, UCLA, and Wash St. There's a decent chance they each finish with one loss. Alabama only plays one ranked team the rest of the way - LSU. OSU has one ranked team left, UM, so we could easily see an OSU - Alabama BCS Championship game.
I have to admit though, Alabama and Oregon appear to be the two best teams.
Too bad the NCAA playoffs did not start this season. There could actually be 4 very good undefeated teams this season and that would make for some awesome playoff match ups.
I know there are always surprise games for every team to survive but at this time the biggest games on this years schedule that will go a long way to determine who plays for the BCS Championship.
OSU vs Michigan. ( maybe twice in the Big Ten title game) That would actually be the best scenerio for both of those 2 teams. If both are undefeated when they play each other and then meet again a week later it will be an overhyped game and if one team sweeps the other that team can make a storng case.
Florida State at Clemson. Clemson already holds the most impressive victory on the season with their win over Georgia. If the Bulldogs keep winning and play in the SEC Championship game and possibly win it the Florida State Clemson winner if undefeated will have a very strong argument for them. By the way the frshman QB of Florida State is an amazing talent and getting better.
Alabama vs LSU and the SEC Championship games. Let's face it if Bama wins all of their games they are a shoe in for the BCS title game. The Georgia Bulldogs looked like a team capable of playing spoiler to end the SEC reign of dominance after losing in week 1 but with their injuries I don't think they could beat Bama anymore but LSU who Georgia beat might be able to.
Oregon at Stanford. The Pac 12 has been getting quite a bit of buzz about challenging the SEC for the best overall conference in college football. If the winner of this game is undefeated at the end of the year they also will have a strong arguement. Oregon's offense will make them a very sexy pick for the pollsters.
Should be a very exciting season with alot of great games to be played yet.
Quote: --Miller is the superior athlete, but I think the team plays better w/Guiton. He is smarter. He gets rid of it quicker. He sees the field better. Other guys get to showcase their talents more. With Miller in, we become the Braxton Miller Show.
Urban Meyer was quoted as saying he nearly replaced Miller with Guiton after Miller missed a wide open receiver for a TD. I wonder if he's considering a situational rotation at QB like he did with Chris Leak and Tim Tebow at Florida in 2006? The bye week would be a good time to work on it, if he is. I don't know if Miller is still hurting or what, but he looks like he's playing scared.
I would agree with that ... until the end of the game. Those last couple of drive by Miller were nicely done. I loved the way he ran up to the line, then hit the receiver down the field when the defender committed. That was beautiful.
I did love the way that Guiton played while Miller was out. The competition wasn't the same level, but man, he sure seemed to do a nice job with his decision making and ball placement.
It was embarrassing.. FSU is not THAT good and Maryland is not THAT bad.. Maryland quit, I mean in the first quarter they just rolled over and stopped fighting faster than a $2 whore. I've never seen a team with less heart than what Maryland showed on Saturday.
It was going to have almost no impact on the outcome, but the late hit by the FSU linebacker, with the crown of his helmet, on Marylands QB that wasn't flagged was an absolute joke. If that happened in the NFL, he would be getting his fine notice in the mail today and it didn't even draw a flag.
On a different note, I heard that the line on the OSU game was 6 points and when they recovered that fumble for the late TD, over $100 million changed hands... but remember, amateur sports is pure and it's all about the student athletes.
Quote: But isn't that Vegas's fault for having a faulty line? If more than 50% were riding OSU, they should have moved the line to get more NW bets in.
I would assume they did.. the 50% that had picked NW went from winners to losers and the 50% that had picked OSU went from losers to winners..
Quote: On a different note, I heard that the line on the OSU game was 6 points and when they recovered that fumble for the late TD, over $100 million changed hands... but remember, amateur sports is pure and it's all about the student athletes.
That's probably only the reported wagers too. Think about all the offshore gambling websites, and guys who wagered with their buddies. Even before Brent brought it up, that is immediately what came to my mind. Man, some people got absolutely screwed.
For those of you that love gambling and gambling stories, there was a great article about the "gambling gods". I think it was part of a Deadspin article from 5 or 6 years ago. I can't remember. Awesome article. Goes through the do's and don'ts of watching a game, and how superstitious cappers are.
Just throwing this out there: I want Austin Seferian-Jenkins in the first round more than a WR. He would be Gronk for us and Jordan would be Hernandez.
Quote: Just throwing this out there: I want Austin Seferian-Jenkins in the first round more than a WR. He would be Gronk for us and Jordan would be Hernandez.
Or Colt Lyerla who just quit the team and university.
I'm getting really excited about my trip in a few weeks for PSU/OSU
Anyone have any tips for tailgating spots or anything like that?
I don't think anyone in our group wants to cook, I may just go to Ohio Deli and grab a giant sandwich. Anyone been there? Saw it on MVF and the food looked incredible.
I'm I the only one that is getting tired of every (seemingly) school now having a black uniform? I turn on a game anymore and have to figure out who is who. The Ducks change costumes every week. I get it. It's their gimmick. But Stanford, AZ, Washington, Nebraska...
Quote: Brady Hoke is the most overrated coach in college football.
UM may win the game still, but there have been some very questionable coaching moves here.
While we're at it, so is Devin Gardner. He was talked up like he was the next RG3. Dude BLOWS.
Speaking of Devin Gardner, he said he GUARANTEED scUM would defeat Ohio State before the beginning of the season. Someone should have told him just how well that works. I really hope the Buckeyes D stomps a mudhole in him Nov. 30th.
UM and Northwestern losing yesterday will hurt OSU's SOS calculation ... its amazing to think they could run the table and have two unbeaten seasons in a row without playing in a championship game. I wonder if Clemson struggling to beat BC (3-3) will allow OSU to jump them in the AP poll?
Well, either Northwestern or Wisconsin had to lose yesterday. And we beat both.
I was rooting hard for Penn State yesterday, then realized that a win by That team up north would help our cause. I felt bad, but I still kept rooting for PSU to win.
I think we'll probably get in the game if we run the table. Either FSU or Clemson will lose next week. Who knows what could happen in the SEC. No one may end up unbeaten. Oregon looks to be able to go undefeated, but they seem to gag a game every year.
There does seem to be an inordinate number of unbeaten teams at this point of the season, though.
One less unbeaten with Stanford losing to Utah yesterday. Clemson plays FSU next week so that will be one more gone, leaving Bama, Oregon, OSU, and Louisville, along with the winner of FSU-Clemson. Of course thats assuming all those teams hold serve next week and win. It would be a shame if there ends up being 4-5 unbeatens and some pollsters decide which two are best. Glad there will be a playoff system next year, at least.
As far as the ACC goes, there are still many inter conference matchups that could shake things up, as well as FSU playing Florida at the end of the year.
I'm not totally confident, but if I had to bet, I would side with OSU being in the championship game if they run the table.
With Bama, they are still in the SEC and could lose any given week.
I don't fully trust Clemson or FSU.
As far as Oregon goes, whoever said they gag a game every year is right on. As soon as you get physical with that option, they are left with nothing. Just look at Stanford last year. Stanford is built to beat up teams like that. Could easily happen again. Keep in mind Hogan as a frosh went into Eugene and kicked their ass. (Disclaimer: I still love Mariota as a prospect the Browns should really take a look at. The knock on Oregon is more on the system than on him. I think he could flourish with a year on the bench under Chud)
•Resign Mack and Ward •Sign Alterrann Verner the CB from Tennessee
Draft:
1. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Washington - A big athletic and complete TE. Allows to run the two TE set that has take the NFL by storm.
1. Zach Mettenberger, QB, LSU - Great size and has a powerful arm. Runs an NFL offense at LSU. The sexual assault thing is troublesome, but I haven't really heard anything else negative about his character.
2. Jordan Matthews, WR, Vanderbilt - Reminds me of Jordy Nelson.
****Trade our 3rd and both 4ths for a 2nd**** 2. Morgan Moses, OT, Virginia - Moses is playing left tackle this year after having played exclusively at right tackle for Virginia. I think he projects much better at right tackle, but the experience he is getting at left tackle could provide an NFL team with some versatility. This pick moves Schwartz to RG. I just don't think Schwartz has the foot speed to play tackle. However I think he could be a mauler at guard.
3. Tre Boston, FS, UNC - I like Gibson, but Tate is an upgrade. He is athletic and can provide versatility.
5. Carlos Hyde, RB, OSU - Fills in for Willis as a big bruising RB that we need.
6. Jerome Smith, RB, Syracuse - Smith is a power running back at Syracuse but I am not sure if he has the speed to be a good RB in the NFL. He runs with great power and surprisingly nimble feet is a very reliable receiver out of the backfield.
I have seen him associated with us in a number of mock drafts. (and I can't believe that there are moch drafts this early)
I will say this ..... it is very possible that some of the junior QBs may decide to come back for another season rather than enter the draft, in hopes of getting a better draft slot. (Like Matt Barkley did .... although that didn't work out so well for him)
Some of these guys may want to consider that they might wind up in a much better place by going mid 1st round though. I do think that any QB we draft will have most of what he needs around him, because I do trust that this front office will do what it takes to sign and draft guys who fit.
Go ahead and steal it, I did.
Broncos only had one losing season after Elway left, and Shanananananana only had two seasons with Jay Cuter, one they went to the playoffs, one 7-9 season, and one 8-8 season. The Dolphins had some really good seasons after Marino left.
