DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Seahawks 32 Postgame Thoughts

Andy dalton has been better than baker mayfield so far this season.

This is gonna be a long bye week.

Tough crowd.

Yes, we will still be in the thick of the playoff hunt even if the Patriots blow us out.

The team ahead of us in the standings still has to play 3 of the teams we lost to.

Yeah, that chart is very telling, at least to me

It wasn't. It also wasn't an illegal block in the back by Jarvis, a fumble by Jarvis, a catch by Metcalf, hands to the face or illegal man downfield by Hubbard, and I could keep going on but in a game decided by 4 points and 17 lost by the Refs I don't think I can stomach to.

It's Haslam for cripes sake!

Holy....

Can't say I'm surprised, when you lead the league in turnovers you're pretty much the worse.

More turnovers than Jameis Winston? That's quite a feat. Bravo Baker, Bravo.

Yeah, seeing he has more TO’s than Jameis is eye opening

The fistful was on the nameplate, therefore it was a horse collar tackle. Like it or not, that one was a correct call (even if it was after the fact)

Terry Pluto ..... who never complains .... (there is other stuff there, but this is about the officials ......

Awful officiating, interceptions sink Cleveland Browns - cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10/awful-officiating-interceptions-sink-cleveland-browns.html

EMBARRASSING OFFICIATING

But this is probably the worst officiated NFL game I’ve seen in years...

If not decades.

If the NFL were to truly study the tape of this game, a couple of officials should be suspended or at least fined for general malfeasance.

I’m not going to spend a lot time on the details of all the bizarre or just-flat-out wrong calls. There were too many.

Most went against the Browns, but not all.

Nor do I know if the NFL had sent a competent officiating crew to the game if it would have made a difference in the final outcome. The Seahawks, now 5-1, are the more talented team and Russell Wilson is a quarterback who finds ways to win games.

But the players, the fans and the league deserves a better performance than they received on this sunny October afternoon.

Oh, and the tackle in question was on the shoulder of the uniform, not the nameplate.

How bad was the officiating in the Browns' loss? 3 blown calls that went the Seahawks' way - cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-20...ahawks-way.html

3rd section has the slo-mo video.

There are tons of reasons why we lost, all of them valid. I would just say that was one of the worst officiated games I have ever witnessed. Bad call after bad call. When you are the home team you at LEAST expect them to call it even. Not in Cleveland. I was longing for the days when a fan might toss a whiskey bottle at the zebras. Pathetic. The NFL is pretty much unwatchable these days and today was a prime example of why.

I could forgive the facemask one, that's hard to see. But the most egregious one of the day was Landry's touchdown. There was a still frame, right on the endzone of Landry with the ball in hand breaking the plane of the goal. What more did they need to see?

The other two shown in that link just show that the Refs don't even know their own rules. What a joke.

I agree, the Landry TD belongs on the list ahead of the horse collar tackle.. that one was close. But the most egregious as in, scratching your head wondering what they were looking at, was the blindside block. I even went back and watched all of the players around Landry to see if maybe they just got the number wrong, but they didn't... that call is inexcusable.

When you have 5 turnovers and lose by 4, nobody wants to hear you whine about the officials though.. (and yes, I count the blocked punt as a turnover even though the official stats don't)

While we're at it, it's Callaway, not, Calloway.

The officiating in the NFL has been a joke, league wide. Making games tougher to watch. Tom Terrific said as much as well...

j/c

A few things: I don't blame Freddie for challenging Landry's goal line catch and I think its wrong to characterize that situation as Freddie cost us a TD (maybe the play calling did, but not challenging it). Freddie was barking at the refs to come over and talk to him to inform him what was going on but they didn't. That's why he called the time out initially AND why they didn't charge him with calling it. HE was right and they should have been over there. But I think he was trying to challenge that play all all along and they weren't paying attention which caused the Chubb's walk in to be called off.

-This team has virtually no maturity. The very next play after Jarvis' phantom illegal block, Baker steps back and just rips it waaay over the head of I think it was Seals who was open enough to catch it. Baker's whole body language read to me a 10yr old throwing a fit because he was mad.

And it was after I believe Chubb's fumble.. the air completely deflated in our offense. I've seen this situation too many times before to believe otherwise. If our DEF didn't recover that fumble on the very next drive, I really believe this game would have been Titans 2.0


Cool things I saw today though:

The Hammer punted the piss out of the ball.. I think it was 60yards.. and almost all in the air. I still want to see him on a fake punt and put his rugby skills to use.

Nick freakin Chubb.

I really want to know what drives and motivates this guy. Watching him is... fun. I can't really describe it any better than that. I was about 11 years old and guys like Eric Metcalf and Eric Turner were my Browns heroes. But my very first jersey, the one I saved my paper route money for? Leroy Hoard.

That dude was big, fast, had crazy balance. I know he wasn't some NFL superstar, but as a kid he was so much fun to watch.

Watching Nick Chubb brings back that feeling I had as a kid. His quiet professionalism is also what really impresses me too. Barry Sanders is my all time favorite athlete because of his quiet professionalism. I see a lot of the same in Chubb.

I wonder if there's a message in there somewhere that the one player on our team killin it week after week is also our quietest?

Oh yeah, one more thing, but it ain't positive. Did Freddie really say we need more chunk plays??? HEY GENIUS!!! YOUR RUNNINGBACK IS AVERAGING 6 YARDS A CARRY! RUN HIM 25+ TIMES AND YOU'LL GET THOSE CHUNK PLAYS.

Smdh

I agree w/you on Chubb. If every player would be as professional and business like, I think we’d be in better shape.

It’s mind boggling when we stray away from him, especially when we’re ahead 20-6

It seems there's been an anti Browns bias with officiating for years. It became evident to me in that game about 10 years ago when they awarded the steelers a 1st down after a measurement clearly showed a good 2-3 inches of chain between the tip of the ball and the pole.

If that’s the case (and honestly I feel that way sometimes too, though part of me thinks every fan base must think that) .. you wonder why? What would be the motivation for it?

The Browns picked the wrong HC. Who ever made that decision needs to go.

Why? Money.

The NFL has been making millions. Why would they want change? The NFL makes a ton of money and we haven't been relevant for years. It's far more important for other franchisees to be relevant because Browns fans are loyal and we still buy stuff and go to the games despite only winning 5 games or less year after year after year....

Brady doesn't get paid enough, if New England wasn't relevant and the AFC east was a lead by a small market Bills team there would be panic. Why do you think there are all these rules to protect the quarterback?

CLEVELAND BROWNS
Baker Mayfield‘s stat line may not be pretty, but he was really more a victim of poor turnover luck as opposed to bad play. One interception occurred as his receiver was picked by a crossing defender not part of the coverage on the play, and another was off a deflection on a contested ball in the end zone. The nail in the coffin was a drop by running back Dontrell Hilliard that bounced straight into the hands of Seattle linebacker K.J. Wright.

The Browns’ offense was clicking early but struggled in the second half once they tried to implement the run more. The offensive line did a substantially better job pass blocking than run blocking, and their receivers, at least early on, were able to create space against Seattle’s defensive backs.

Myles Garrett dominated the Seattle offensive line and seemed to be in the backfield all game forcing Russell Wilson outside the pocket. Olivier Vernon played well against the run and forced a fumble in the contest.

The Browns’ secondary had a rough game staying with Seattle’s receivers, especially when Russell Wilson was able to extend plays. The linebackers and secondary had a tough time bringing down Chris Carson and limiting his yards after contact, though.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-6-pff-refocused-seattle-seahawks-32-cleveland-browns-28

Started out so damn promising... A fumble by Chubb, (never would have thought) Picks (some on Baker, some not)

I saw some outstanding plays by both the D and O.. ST's weren't horrible either. (blocked punt aside)

Some BS penalties but that always happens.

When a team has this much talent, something else is wrong.

I can't talk about it anymore.... it hurts too much

I ain't one to blame refs for losses but this loss was on the refs. The flags were big momentum plays that changed the game. Defensive holding that keeps the linemen from pulling blatant and missed. Facemask calls that weren't flagged. The laundry bracing for a hit peel back block call was the one getting the most attention but man it was really really criminal.

As for the rest, we are almost there. I still believe we win the division and likely finish with an 11 win season.

Our players seem to waste too much energy thinking about the refs and how they are going to try to screw the team over. Blatantly nonsense calls going on. They need to be able to just focus on the game. It's easier said than done when the refs are applying 2 different sets of rules. The refs have gotten good at making the numbers look okay at the end. Yet in key moments they consistently make calls contradicting the rule book and the way they had been allowing both teams to play.

As much as our play calling appears lopsided on the surface, you take what the defense is giving you. Imposing your will sounds great, our center and RG are not road graders, though and our TEs aren't good at blocking, either. Yes, we can break off big runs when holes open horizontally, but when both lines try to go forward, ours is the one that is going backwards.

Our players need to catch the ball. Baker hasn't been great, but he has had "help". Even when we have good plays it looks like the players are looking around for a bogus flag to be thrown. It's in their heads. It's not "where's the ball, let's make a play," it's " where's the flag this time."

Battered Browns Syndrome might be a thing alongside Battered Browns' Fan.

I'm sure they'll get another apology this week. They'll probably believe it as much as they'd believe an abusive husband, though. The power dynamic isn't that different.

We should have won anyways. We had more talent. Still the "abuser" can get in one's head.

The only real mistake Baker made was throwing into double coverage into the end zone, bad bounce on the deflection and it got picked.

Thought Freddie dialed up a good game plan, 4 turnovers and the penalties aren't on him.

Can't lead the league in turnovers and penalties and win, just how it is.


Anyone saying this is as "unwatachable" as the Sashi years is obviously overly emotional. The Seahawks are a damn good team and aside from some really horrible breaks (two tipped INT's and WR's running into each other for another, horrific penalties, bad calls and ball spots) we were every bit as good.

Young teams don't win in the NFL, just the way it is. Russell Wilson is 30. Tom Brady is 42. Heck the Chiefs should be 3-3 right now with a transcendent talent at QB.

It's fine, the hype was a little too big this season. We have a young QB who can very obviously play in this league. I can't say that any of the INT's were clearly his fault. At the end of the day, this is probably the best thing that could happen to an extremely over confident young team.

I managed to get through all of page one and most of page two before I stopped. It became nauseating. I'm not really sure what people expected. One thing people seem to be missing by and large is the difference between a good team and a team trying to establish itself.

A good team knows how to pull together and win. A team trying to establish themselves are looking to become a team that knows how to pull together and win. See, I watched people post how Seattle was barely winning in close games against average teams. Many saw that as some type of negative that was a good sign for us. I saw it the opposite way. I saw it as no matter what, in the end, they know how to put W's on the board.

Were some of Bakers passes behind the WR's? Yes they were. But overall he seemed better. I only saw one Int. I would lay squarely on his shoulders. The one where he threw into double coverage in the end zone. One was a miscommunication between he and the WR or the coverage made contact with the WR not allowing him to be where he was supposed to be. But I can't in all good faith lay the blame on anyone for that.

But I did see some of the things I was hoping he would improve on. He wasn't fading back in the pocket after his initial drop back. He wasn't getting happy feet and rolling out of the pocket early. Both of those things were tendencies I saw from him early that concerned me.

I was as disappointed as anyone was watching the second half collapse. But some of the comments and overreaction from some of our posters tells me that anything regarding reality and patience has been lost in our society.

jc --

While I am firmly in Freddie's and Baker's corners and believe they will grow and learn and get better, this team needs to prove to itself they can win big games. I understand the notion that they are learning how to win. I think that is valid and applicable. I also believe some people just get it done. I don't know if Freddie and Baker are winners or losers and whether or not they can just get it done. They need to prove it to the fans but most importantly they need to prove it to themselves.

I'm reminded of a game a while back between the 9ers and the Seahawks. I believe the 9ers were fresh off their super bowl appearance and the seahawks had a second or third year QB and a brash defense. It was a primetime game. I think everyone expected the 9ers to go back to the super bowl. Wilson and that defense just willed the Seahawks to victory and San Francisco never really recovered as a franchise. But it was a classic case of just getting the job done because that's what you do...you win.

The Browns are the opposite of that right now. The "learning to win" thing can only fly for so long. At some point you just have to get it done.

Has there ever been a Patriots game where they were robbed of a touch down or had blatant multiple bad penalties called against them in the 4th quarter?
Serious question, I cannot think of any . Hmmmmmm

j/c...

Last week against SF, Callaway, coming of a drug suspension, missing time in TC and showing to TC out of shape, was immediately given a significant role in the game to the detriment of the team.

Meanwhile, Higgins returns from injury, is Baker's security blanket, and doesn't play a single snap yesterday.

Freddie needs to be asked that question straight up...idiotic if he was truly ready and didn't get a snap

interesting stat...and by interesting I mean very sad

Baker Mayfield this season: 5 TDs, 11 INTs. Mayfield in the 4th quarter this season: 0 TDs, 6 INTs.

Quite a few folks said that they put Callaway in too soon....maybe Freddie didn't want to make the same mistake with Higgins?

There are a lot of things Freddie did yesterday that baffled me....this one is near the top.

That's what happens when you wake up and feel dangerous...

And the idiot coach continues to put the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter... dumb & dumber

A lot of humble pie. It will either make him or break him.

I will reiterate something I said earlier though...I've never seen so many unlucky bounces and so many picks hit the receivers hands before. That's not to excuse his poor play, but more of an observation. I'm also not a big fan of stat box heroes that use these numbers out of context. Not saying that's you lead...but we all know what the Cowherds of the world are going to do with those numbers.

Baker wasn't bad yesterday. He was close to the guy we had last year. That's a positive sign. He made at least 2 plus level throws that were outstanding...the 4th and 7 to Landry. How many guys would even attempt that throw and how many would make it? And the TD to RSJ.

You will need throws like that to eventually win games.

And then there's this stat ...



Turnover worthy pass means that the ball should have been intercepted. So if it bounces off a defenders hands, it counts. If it bounces off a receivers hands and into a defenders hands, it doesnt count against you. (Like we've see a lot)

He's certainly had some bad bounces go against him. Most in the league...