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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.
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Legend
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I'll gladly discuss this w/you in a PM. On this thread, I would rather stick w/Baker and team rather than board personalities. PM me if you want to hear my thoughts on personalities and/or if you want to carry on w/your thoughts about my character.
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Legend
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I'm aware of all the personality stuff. Honestly it's not that important to me. I'm just posting tonight to pass the time during commercials of the Georgia Alabama game.
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Legend
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Baker Summary
Games played - 35
Record - 16-18
Comp % - 61.4%
Yards - 8528
Y/A - 7.3
TD's - 58
Int's - 39.
=================================
He came to a team who had not won a game. He has not missed a start once he earned the starting job.
He is in his third year. The team is 4-1.
The list of quarterbacks before Baker are on the back of some jerseys.
I will take what we have and be glad to see a player who wants to be here.
He knows he has to improve in some areas. He wants to be great. His teammates follow him. He is the leader of the team.
He has the skill set to become very good.
All that needs to happen is continue to do what he is doing. Stay with the program he is on with his head coach and the staff. Stay in one system and continue to improve inside that system.
We will see where that leads. I will remain patient. Because patience is needed when players are developing.
I am enjoying being above 500 for the first time in a long, long time. I am looking forward to see where we can go "this" year.
For those who want to dissect every stat and try to win arguments go for it. It is a discussion board.
I am just happy to have a chance at post season play instead of where this team has been for the last endless years.
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Legend
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Now there is an interpreted insult in my post?
Is there an insult in my post?
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Legend
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OP
Legend
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You act like you're the only one who has ever criticised Baker and said those things. Hell, I was probably saying most of that before you were. You noticed huh? I think the "Personality Stuff" isn't personality stuff at all. I think it's other posters objecting to the hypocrisy and manipulation of posts and commenting on it ... He invents things no-one ever said in a fashion that he calls other posters liars for when they make generalizations and exaggerate. No-one ever claimed Baker was perfect or a finished product. No-one ever claimed all of Baker's struggles were entirely a bi-product of everyone else's faults. Yet that's been the claim and 'discussion' put forth by this poster. I think most posters acknowledged Baker had areas to grow and improve. But just look at this year, some posters are talking about Baker taking coaching to change his footwork, new offense, new OC and new HC, learning the playbook via Zoom meetings without pre-season; all as additional factors to consider when we look at Baker's command and knowledge of the offense early in the season. Some including myself have suggested Stefanski is pulling Baker back to basics and coaching him in essence like he's a rookie, because the "coaching" he got from Hue and Freddie was either non-existent or taught/encouraged bad QB traits. But instead of acknowledging any of these factors - someone instead chooses to mock the idea that they might have an impact. Back to Baker ... I'm expecting a tough outing today against Pit, but I think we'll learn some more about his growth and development. Pit pass rush is legit and I expect to see Baker running when he shouldn't if they get to him ... but hoping he'll maintain more consistent play through 4 quarters. I don't think we'll be so far ahead that Baker can afford to lay another egg in the 4th Q.
Last edited by mgh888; 10/18/20 09:44 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Hall of Famer
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Baker is the only QB to start for the Browns since they pulled Tyrod Taylor in the second quarter of the Jets game.
The revolving door days for Browns QB's are over. That is the most important stat for me.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Legend
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oobs...go back and look at the plays just before Baker's two interceptions...then tell me how good the Browns OLine is at "protecting" their QB mac, This comment. Wasn't that far up....
Anyone that wants to suggest I'm unnecessarily criticizing the Browns OLine...look at the video first. So are you saying that the Oline isn't doing a good enough job of protecting Baker because of 2 plays (against a very very stout Dline)?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Legend
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Baker isn't the guy right now. I think everyone knows that.
What the disagreement (and real discussion) is about is if he can become that guy. I think he can, but how that pick-6 happened is... troubling, to put it kindly.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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What’s sad is the contingent in here hoping for his failure. Shame on all of you. Go find a new fandom.
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Wrong thread
Last edited by RocketOptimist; 10/18/20 03:30 PM.
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Dawg Talker
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Be careful or you will be their next target.
Look, when I dared to suggest that Baker needed to work on his footwork, the same folks who are bashing me now were the ones who said his footwork was fine.
When I said he struggled going through his progressions, they were the same guys bashing me back then.
Franchise QBs make plays when the going gets rough. Baker has not done that. His performance in the first quarter at Pittsburgh sealed the deal for me. He was under pressure, but he couldn't make a play for the life of him. The pick six was just a horrible decision, like he doesn't see anything but his receiver. That play sealed the game for Pittsburgh. I know it was early, but it took all the fight out of our team right from the get go.
When I said he didn't prepare hard enough last off-season, they bashed me for that. He later came out and said it himself.
When I said he wasn't producing in the clutch, they balked yet again.
When I said he held it too long, they blamed the OL.
They change their tunes when the evidence becomes overwhelming, but it's always the same guys who think their criticisms of me actually makes Baker a better football player. I am amazed that more people haven't seen through their facade.
"The Elf is killing the Curse"
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Imagine being 4-2 and telling everyone “see, I was right! He’s terrible!”
So embarrassing.
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Legend
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Legend
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Vers is the only happy fan this week.
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Legend
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Serious question:
If you needed to win one game during the 2020 season who would you want as your QB, Baker or Ryan Fitzpatrick? I know my answer. The fact that we’re even having this discussion is the part that is concerning. Baker was the #1 pick, he needs to be much better than he is.
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Legend
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Baker won't be the first #1 overall to bust.
The problem is they drafted Baker based on his moxie. We are seeing what happens when the moxie disappears.
Maybe we shouldn't draft people based on moxie.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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You know it's really interesting...no one really likes Baker...he's somewhat of a national punching bag because of his personality and people's investment in being right that he wouldn't be any good.
So he's given all these gifts to prove those people wrong and he can't successfully use that as motivation.
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Vers is the only happy fan this week. I know he's not a Baker fan, but I'm sure he would rather see Baker succeed and win and prove him wrong. So I'm going to guess he's not happy. Me personally, I've been very patient with Baker. But it's starting to wear thin after today. Unfortunately we just don't have any better options at this point. Might as well just stick with him and see if he can succeed as a game manager. I'm unsure if he can even do that at this point though. His decision making today was head scratching at best.
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Legend
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Maybe we shouldn't draft people based on moxie. I think that was a factor but not everything. In hindsight Lamar Jackson should have been the #1 pick and it’s not close. (I wanted Josh Rosen.) I don’t think John Dorsey was great but he’s a complete disaster if Baker’s a bust.
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Legend
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I disagree. I think it should have been Allen.
Lamar is an incredible football player. He's an average QB. And maybe 2 franchises total would have had the guts to do what the Ravens did to their offense to cater to him.
Allen will have the better career.
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But would Lamar be successful with any other coaches? I credit Lamar’s success much to Baltimore building a system around him.
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Legend
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I disagree. I think it should have been Allen.
Lamar is an incredible football player. He's an average QB. And maybe 2 franchises total would have had the guts to do what the Ravens did to their offense to cater to him.
Allen will have the better career. I disagree with that take but the point still stands. We took the third best QB when we had the #1 pick.
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Legend
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But would Lamar be successful with any other coaches? I credit Lamar’s success much to Baltimore building a system around him. Would he be better than Baker given the same circumstances? I say yes.
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Not sure he’d succeed in Stefanski’s system. Lamar’s offense looks complicated but it runs well as it’s his wheel house. Not sure he could throw from the pocket while making the reads in this one.
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Legend
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Not sure he’d succeed in Stefanski’s system. Lamar’s offense looks complicated but it runs well as it’s his wheel house. Not sure he could throw from the pocket while making the reads in this one. Imagine Lamar on the move with all that space on some of bootlegs we run. With our running game. Lamar Jackson would be probably be the second or third QB taken if the NFL had a fantasy type draft. Where would Mayfield go? 16th? Just going through it here are the QBs I would 100% take over Mayfield for the 2020 season: Ben Roethlisberger Lamar Jackson Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Derek Carr DeShaun Watson Ryan Tannehill Aaron Rodgers Matthew Stafford Tom Brady Kyler Murray Russell Wilson That makes Baker the 12th best QB at best. I didn’t include guys like Drew Brees, Jared Goff, Phillip Rivers, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Ryan, and Carson Wentz but they are all also likely better. The bottom line is that Baker needs to be much, much better. I think he can improve a little but his problems seem to be getting worse, not better. He has to play this year so we know what we have going into his fourth year.
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Legend
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Baker is bottom 5, possibly bottom 2.
He's not worse than Darnold.
How many QBs would not be able to use OBJ?
That's insane.
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Legend
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j/c:
In Baker's defense, he was heavily pressured today. He did not have enough time on many plays.
On the other hand, he put us in a bad situation w/his poor play.
Conclusion: I don't think he is a guy that will lead you to the promised land. It's great if everything is going perfectly, but he isn't the guy who can overcome obstacles, in my opinion.
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I appreciate this. Quite measured, too.
Thanks for not taking the “I told all of you that I was right, see!!” approach.
I guess I’m trying to stay optimistic that he’ll find a way to read things in a more efficient and quick manner because we sure needed that today.
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Legend
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I appreciate this. Quite measured, too.
Thanks for not taking the “I told all of you that I was right, see!!” approach.
I guess I’m trying to stay optimistic that he’ll find a way to read things in a more efficient and quick manner because we sure needed that today. It is not impossible. It is also not likely. My views on Baker took a turn after listening to a Jake Burns podcast with Matt Waldman. They did not paint a rosy picture and the things they discussed have played out.
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Legend
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Thanks for not taking the “I told all of you that I was right, see!!” approach. I've never been that guy. It's guys like 888 who say that over and over and over and over. I have only said that it bothers me that when people act like my analysis of the game is so bad even after most of the things I have said have proven to be true. I would never ask anyone to agree w/me, but acting like my points have no validity is wrong. I will also say that no one on this board admits to being wrong more than I do. I try and talk football. These stupid personal attacks that occur over and over and over again do irritate me at times. I try and ignore them, but it gets old.
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j/c:
In Baker's defense, he was heavily pressured today. He did not have enough time on many plays.
On the other hand, he put us in a bad situation w/his poor play.
Conclusion: I don't think he is a guy that will lead you to the promised land. It's great if everything is going perfectly, but he isn't the guy who can overcome obstacles, in my opinion. Pitt was defending the run because they knew Baker can't beat them. Take away his first read, pressure him and defend the run. This day and age either we have a playmaker mobile QB with extra arm talent, or you have a QB with a cannon that can drop back 5-7 steps and still make the play. Baker is average, slow to read the field and slow to react.. its hard to be successfull like that, the moment you fall beind any good team then game is over. Our players know it...
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/18/20 07:30 PM.
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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All Pro
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What’s sad is the contingent in here hoping for his failure. Shame on all of you. Go find a new fandom. Pointing out his shortcomings is not hoping he fails.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Legend
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The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not.
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The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not. if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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Legend
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The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not. if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded Who? Favre got traded because he was a crazy person not because he stunk. He had four pass attempts in his one season with Atlanta.
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The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not. if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded Who? Favre got traded because he was a crazy person not because he stunk. He had four pass attempts in his one season with Atlanta. Drew Brees
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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wait.. he wasn't traded. he left right?
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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