DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Baker Comparisons

I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.

I'll gladly discuss this w/you in a PM. On this thread, I would rather stick w/Baker and team rather than board personalities. PM me if you want to hear my thoughts on personalities and/or if you want to carry on w/your thoughts about my character.

I'm aware of all the personality stuff. Honestly it's not that important to me. I'm just posting tonight to pass the time during commercials of the Georgia Alabama game.

You noticed huh? I think the "Personality Stuff" isn't personality stuff at all. I think it's other posters objecting to the hypocrisy and manipulation of posts and commenting on it ... He invents things no-one ever said in a fashion that he calls other posters liars for when they make generalizations and exaggerate.

No-one ever claimed Baker was perfect or a finished product. No-one ever claimed all of Baker's struggles were entirely a bi-product of everyone else's faults. Yet that's been the claim and 'discussion' put forth by this poster. I think most posters acknowledged Baker had areas to grow and improve. But just look at this year, some posters are talking about Baker taking coaching to change his footwork, new offense, new OC and new HC, learning the playbook via Zoom meetings without pre-season; all as additional factors to consider when we look at Baker's command and knowledge of the offense early in the season. Some including myself have suggested Stefanski is pulling Baker back to basics and coaching him in essence like he's a rookie, because the "coaching" he got from Hue and Freddie was either non-existent or taught/encouraged bad QB traits. But instead of acknowledging any of these factors - someone instead chooses to mock the idea that they might have an impact.

Back to Baker ... I'm expecting a tough outing today against Pit, but I think we'll learn some more about his growth and development. Pit pass rush is legit and I expect to see Baker running when he shouldn't if they get to him ... but hoping he'll maintain more consistent play through 4 quarters. I don't think we'll be so far ahead that Baker can afford to lay another egg in the 4th Q.

Baker is the only QB to start for the Browns since they pulled Tyrod Taylor in the second quarter of the Jets game.

The revolving door days for Browns QB's are over. That is the most important stat for me.

ESPN ranks Baker as the #8 QB in the NFL according to QBR for the season this far.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qb

NFL.com has him rated at #17 thus far for the season.

https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-index-week-6-justin-herbert-vaults-into-top-10

So are you saying that the Oline isn't doing a good enough job of protecting Baker because of 2 plays (against a very very stout Dline)?

Horrible

Baker isn't the guy right now. I think everyone knows that.

What the disagreement (and real discussion) is about is if he can become that guy. I think he can, but how that pick-6 happened is... troubling, to put it kindly.

What’s sad is the contingent in here hoping for his failure. Shame on all of you. Go find a new fandom.

Wrong thread

Imagine being 4-2 and telling everyone “see, I was right! He’s terrible!”

So embarrassing.

Vers is the only happy fan this week.

Serious question:

If you needed to win one game during the 2020 season who would you want as your QB, Baker or Ryan Fitzpatrick? I know my answer. The fact that we’re even having this discussion is the part that is concerning. Baker was the #1 pick, he needs to be much better than he is.

Baker won't be the first #1 overall to bust.

The problem is they drafted Baker based on his moxie. We are seeing what happens when the moxie disappears.

Maybe we shouldn't draft people based on moxie.

You know it's really interesting...no one really likes Baker...he's somewhat of a national punching bag because of his personality and people's investment in being right that he wouldn't be any good.

So he's given all these gifts to prove those people wrong and he can't successfully use that as motivation.

I know he's not a Baker fan, but I'm sure he would rather see Baker succeed and win and prove him wrong. So I'm going to guess he's not happy.

Me personally, I've been very patient with Baker. But it's starting to wear thin after today. Unfortunately we just don't have any better options at this point. Might as well just stick with him and see if he can succeed as a game manager. I'm unsure if he can even do that at this point though. His decision making today was head scratching at best.

I think that was a factor but not everything. In hindsight Lamar Jackson should have been the #1 pick and it’s not close.

(I wanted Josh Rosen.)

I don’t think John Dorsey was great but he’s a complete disaster if Baker’s a bust.

I disagree. I think it should have been Allen.

Lamar is an incredible football player. He's an average QB. And maybe 2 franchises total would have had the guts to do what the Ravens did to their offense to cater to him.

Allen will have the better career.

But would Lamar be successful with any other coaches? I credit Lamar’s success much to Baltimore building a system around him.

I disagree with that take but the point still stands. We took the third best QB when we had the #1 pick.

Would he be better than Baker given the same circumstances? I say yes.

Not sure he’d succeed in Stefanski’s system. Lamar’s offense looks complicated but it runs well as it’s his wheel house. Not sure he could throw from the pocket while making the reads in this one.

Imagine Lamar on the move with all that space on some of bootlegs we run. With our running game. Lamar Jackson would be probably be the second or third QB taken if the NFL had a fantasy type draft. Where would Mayfield go? 16th?

Just going through it here are the QBs I would 100% take over Mayfield for the 2020 season:

Ben Roethlisberger
Lamar Jackson
Josh Allen
Patrick Mahomes
Derek Carr
DeShaun Watson
Ryan Tannehill
Aaron Rodgers
Matthew Stafford
Tom Brady
Kyler Murray
Russell Wilson

That makes Baker the 12th best QB at best. I didn’t include guys like Drew Brees, Jared Goff, Phillip Rivers, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Ryan, and Carson Wentz but they are all also likely better.

The bottom line is that Baker needs to be much, much better. I think he can improve a little but his problems seem to be getting worse, not better. He has to play this year so we know what we have going into his fourth year.

Baker is bottom 5, possibly bottom 2.

He's not worse than Darnold.

How many QBs would not be able to use OBJ?

That's insane.

j/c:

In Baker's defense, he was heavily pressured today. He did not have enough time on many plays.

On the other hand, he put us in a bad situation w/his poor play.

Conclusion: I don't think he is a guy that will lead you to the promised land. It's great if everything is going perfectly, but he isn't the guy who can overcome obstacles, in my opinion.

I appreciate this. Quite measured, too.

Thanks for not taking the “I told all of you that I was right, see!!” approach.

I guess I’m trying to stay optimistic that he’ll find a way to read things in a more efficient and quick manner because we sure needed that today.

It is not impossible. It is also not likely. My views on Baker took a turn after listening to a Jake Burns podcast with Matt Waldman. They did not paint a rosy picture and the things they discussed have played out.

I've never been that guy. It's guys like 888 who say that over and over and over and over.

I have only said that it bothers me that when people act like my analysis of the game is so bad even after most of the things I have said have proven to be true. I would never ask anyone to agree w/me, but acting like my points have no validity is wrong. I will also say that no one on this board admits to being wrong more than I do.

I try and talk football. These stupid personal attacks that occur over and over and over again do irritate me at times. I try and ignore them, but it gets old.

Pitt was defending the run because they knew Baker can't beat them. Take away his first read, pressure him and defend the run.

This day and age either we have a playmaker mobile QB with extra arm talent, or you have a QB with a cannon that can drop back 5-7 steps and still make the play.

Baker is average, slow to read the field and slow to react.. its hard to be successfull like that, the moment you fall beind any good team then game is over. Our players know it...

Pointing out his shortcomings is not hoping he fails.

The NFL in those time periods is a totally different place. Also, Brees and Favre improved as time went on. Baker is. . . not.

if that was the case... he wouldn't have been traded

Who? Favre got traded because he was a crazy person not because he stunk. He had four pass attempts in his one season with Atlanta.

Drew Brees

wait.. he wasn't traded. he left right?