Not going to get into what happened and all of that for now.

He is a member of the team. The suspension? Still to be determined.

Let's say worst case ten games. (which I doubt).

Ok six games left in the season what do we have in Hunt the player?

I will go out on a limb. I can not think of a better backfield in football. Last year after Freddie took over we scored pretty easily. That was with Chubb and Baker in their first year and not having been starters.

We learned that Chubb is really good. One of the best actually.

Baker under Freddie took off. We were far from set at receiver. We added Perriman and got through injury to others. So we are not talking about much experience together.

Now we add Hunt. In 2017 he was rookie of the year and lead the league in rushing with 1327 yards. He had 8 TD's rushing with a 4.9 yard per carry average. In addition he caught 53 balls for 455 yards and 3 TD's.

In 2018 in 11 games 824 yards and 7 TD's rushing. Receiving he had 26 receptions for 378 yards and 7 TD's.

Not too shabby for a guy who turned 23 in August.

So Baker, Chubb, Duke, and Hunt with Hilliard another 23 year old as depth. Four guys are 23 years old. Duke is 25.

If we are in the playoff chase after 10 weeks and he comes on the team. What does that look like?

Unsure because I don't the league rules about practice etc.

What we can say is he can only help because he is really good.

How would he be worked into the lineup? Well only the imagination of Freddie and Monken will provide the answer but I like that kind of problem.

Hunt is about ten pounds lighter than Nick. Their styles are a little different. Nick actually had a better forty time 4.52 versus Hunt at 4.62.

Hunt is more of a cut back, read and go guy. Nick shows more power. Both can catch the ball.

Not an easy combination to deal with.

Also both are capable to be the feature guy if one were to get injured.

So we added a guy in Hunt before free agency and the draft that is already a proven premier player in the league.

You go Buddy Boy.

I just watched this highlight video of Hunt in action. I see a a running back with very good vision, great feet, good hands, and better power than I remember. I am excited to see him in Seal Brown and Burnt Orange.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je69GB5hEGY

No doubt. It's one thing to say "well, if you watch a highlight vid, you're not seeing any of the bad things", but you also get a sense for some of the constants. The biggest thing for me was seeing that he runs a lot like Walter Payton. You do not "hit" him unless he simply did not see you coming... if he does, he initiates the contact, and he hits you.

It's going to be interesting watching defenses try to find answers for two physical running backs, both of these guys will flat out run you over and neither gets cheated out of a single yard.

Ohio produces much football talent, especially northeast Ohio. Living in Colorado, I was in awe, how I saw KC fans revel in football talent from Cleveland. Kelsey and Hunt.

We need to secure our own talent, we need to protect it. One reason I don’t think we talk about Denzel Ward enough.

Once Hunt joins the roster (assuming there is a suspension) I don't see Hilliard on our roster he will be cut or better yet traded for a team in the need!

jmho and I expect hunt to do some Returns.

My guess is Duke will be traded. He has more value. And that trade may come sooner rather than later.

If the suspension comes down and it 3 or 4 games. Hilliard may be the third guy and Duke traded in a package deal. Duke plus draft picks to get somebody.

I think Hilliard is the key to Duke’s future ...

Hunt is a wildcard for this year and he only signed a one year deal ...

I have no clue how long he’s “ours” or if we can do anything but franchise tag him ...

Hunt is a very very murky situation on many levels .. some of witch i’m clueless on (what our options are after this year as far as “forced” retention goes) ...

At this point ... we have NO CLUE if he will be suspended for 4 games or 10 games ...

I honestly believe what we think of Hilliard’s potential has way more to do with Duke’s future at this point ...

All I know is I can’t wait for FA to start .. this is gonna be FUN FUN FUN!!!!

LETS GOOOOOOOooooooooooooo ....

From my understanding the Browns control Hunt for two years. Meaning they have the option on year two. I believe he could become a RFA.

The reality in my opinion is Hunt will be a model citizen. I mean why would he not?

He already missed five games last year. And he has not been charged.

Dorsey on Duke "not yet".

Meaning when the Hunt situation clarifies; Duke becomes expendable. Of course he does because there will not be enough touches.

Hilliard is insurance on injury and may just be cut or put on the practice squad.

I don't see a future for Duke with the Browns for sure after this coming season.

If the Hunt suspension is ten games. Maybe he stays. If the suspension is short Duke may be gone soon.

The thing I think some are missing is how much do you invest from the perspective of cap space at the RB position?

Now if Hunt is here for one year and gone through RFA, I think Duke may be safe. But let's not forget that Duke signed a three year deal where over 8 mil. of that contract is not guaranteed. Signing Hunt to an extension won't be cheap. So are we going to pay both of them big money in a tandem RB situation? I don't think so.

I love Duke, but Hunt is a better player. It sucks, but that's the way things work.

Just my take but I highly doubt Dorsey did this deal with the intentions of having Hunt for a questionable amount of time for one year.

He is 23. Dorsey wants Hunt and Chubb long term. Meaning five years.

He is getting 1 mil with limitations and no guarantees.

If all goes well they have money. I could see a three year deal for a negotiated amount that would work for all parties.

I'm sure that's the intended goal. Sometimes that's just not the way things work out though. It's a no lose situation. We either get Hunt or a high draft pick.

U also have to take into consideration with Hunt that we trade him like the fish did with VICE GRIPS last year ... tag him and then trade him ... we’ll get a lot more for Hunt than the morons accepted for a top 15 reciever in the NFL ... we STOLE HIM ..

Pit made a great point about how much $$$ u want to pay the RB position .. we have Chubb for really cheap the next 2 two 3 years ...

Lots of balls in the air here .. all i know is there ALL GREAT BALLS to have right now .. it will be extremely diffucult for this to end up bad for us ... extremely difficult ...

All good.

Not to get into the incident but I believe it will be forgotten quickly. Unless Hunt is really a bad guy or not too bright.

From what I have read about his time in KC. He was a popular player and a good teammate.

So in the end I think this will turn out well.

Once again Dorsey is proving to be one of the great stories in Browns history.

I find a reason and a way to keep Duke and use him. Just feel we haven't found a good way to make best use of him yet.

I see what you did there..

j/c:

I have weighed in on this on the other Hunt thread, but to reiterate:

--Hunt is a premier backs. Probably one of the very best in the entire NFL.

--He is a very good receiver in addition to his running abilities.

--I don't know what the NFL will do in regards to the suspension. I think games is fair, but I keep hearing 10-12. I think the NFL should consider that he missed 5 games last year. Thus, I think 6 is fair. But, I doubt it will be about being fair.

--I think that we can trade Hunt if we so desire for a high pick. However, I hope we keep him. He is that dynamic.

--Duke? I don't see us trading him right away if Hunt faces a lengthy suspension. I do see Duke being move eventually.

--Once again, another great move by Dorsey.

This one is the right answer and I don't know how much the brass likes Hilliard.

I just don't see us starting to throw weapons away yet with so little depth. Perhaps if we get a couple more sure fire threats at WR Duke might be expendable also. You don't find sure fire WR's in the draft though. You might find great prospects but the jump from college to the NFL is tough at WR.

I dream the combo becomes Ingram and kamara. Baker gives his best brees impersonation. Of course we missing a Thomas.
But Ingram kamara combo hope, is very doable with Chub and Hunt. We might even be better.

I dont get this thought that always comes out when we get a new player that someone that is high on the depth chart at that position is going to go. Duke is a versatile player and his versatility will keep him here as our 3rd down back. Hunt and Chubb will be our two headed monster as our RBs and Duke will be our 3rd down/specialist back. He will not see many carries out of the backfield but will be used in 3rd down passing situations and in situations where he starts in the backfield and then motions into the slot. He causes problems for teams trying to cover him with a LB

It would also be smart to keep in mind that injuries happen, and Duke is a very good safety net.

If Hunt's suspension is six weeks or less, Duke could be gone by draft day. Wouldn't expect it to happen, but his potential upside has value in a trade. Without looking at the draft order, there has to be teams, 8-16, that are in dire need of a "known commodity". Swapping picks and targeting their needs while securing Duke... while we take our best overall player in the 2019 draft. Sounds like a win-win if that player is there. If hes a DL, there's a decent chance he will be.

I expect Hunt's suspension to be the max - 10 weeks. I say the max because there is no way the league will tell him to be our puppet AND lose an accrued season. If they did, there would be a grievance filed and the argument for time he already "served" in 2018. The league's biggest obligation, to itself, is to limit its black eyes for the foreseeable future.

I'm really hoping we keep Duke and engage him in the offense properly... finally. If we're playing well when Hunt joins us, we may all wake up feeling dangerous... during a run at the playoffs.

Imagine Duke, Chubb and Hunt in the "Inverted Wishbone", deep in enemy territory, in a late December game to decide a playoff berth. I don't think there are many DCs that would like to imagine that.

That's the fantasy scenario. But isn't it also the scenario with the highest upside? We're in a definite position to chase the highest upside for the next few years. Especially with elite running backs / game changers at $1m per year.

LETS GOOOOOOOooooooooooooo ....

I agree. The only hitch is that Hunt missed games because he was released, not suspended, thus I am not hopeful that the NFL will consider that.

How many games was Mixon suspended? His violent act was way worse than Hunts. JMO

Even if Hunt is suspended 5 games, I doubt we trade Duke before the season kicks-off. Any playoff hopes go down the drain if he is traded and Chubb goes down early.

My thinking is if we trade Duke, it will be at the trade deadline and getting a pick for next year. Actually, I would probably prefer to gain a 2nd or 3rd rounder for next year. We have enough ammo to move around this year. I'd like to be in the same position for next year as well. This years draft probably won't make us a championship caliber club. Next years draft might be the one to do that.

I am really interested in how the new coaches might use him, better than Huey and Haley managed to do. I write off some of that "planning" as holding Duke back. I think he has not been used best where he is most capable ad most able to shine. Especially, I think Dorsey has an eye for many things, better than we have had, and that talent is one of the strongest.
He does not seem to be calling to rid himself of Duke yet.

And maybe it is time for a little nod of respect as the trend is headed up. Duke has done what was asked of him, especially during that dumpster fire season. More than plenty of talent for a one-year show me.

I have asked this same question. Why not drop from the bottom of the depth chart? Salary cap would be the only reason I can think of that would justify removing someone higher on the depth chart, but that is not an issue for us right now.

Regarding Duke's usage. I posted the stats multiple times and won't bother to look them all up again since people ignore them, but Duke had a very high usage rate when Hue was calling the plays.

His usage was decreased dramatically w/Haley. When Kitchen's took over, he used him in the first game or two but then utilize him very much after that.

The bottom line is that Duke was used more than almost all of the NFL backs who possess similar size and skill when Hue was here. Duke should not be utilized as a top RB in the mold of Zeke, Barkley, Gurley, Bell, etc.

This is true.

Duke was used 42% of the time this past year and 53% of the time the year before.

I read that we were using Haley's gameplan and playbook. Haley also uses only one RB with a certain set of skills that Duke did not possess. I'd expect Duke to be used more next season. Although a trade wouldn't surprise me.

*Scratching my head* why oh why do so many people around here want to cut or trade players every time we get a little depth

I don't want to trade him, but Duke won't play much if we keep Hunt. Surely, Duke would not be happy in such a setting and we could probably acquire compensation in an area of greater need.

With that said, I don't know if we will keep Hunt or trade him. The guy is one of the very best backs in the NFL. I am not sure if people on here realize just how good he is. He isn't going to be sitting on the bench when he returns from his suspension.

I am still drooling (Like I have been for years) at the thought of using two backs in the backfield at the same time. Chubb/Hunt, Hunt/Duke, Chubb/Duke all three can run, catch, and block and I still say teams in today's NFL would have to sell out to stop us leaving the passing game wide open for Baker if they do.

Byner/Mack.

Well, if we trade Duke, I sure as heck hope it's after Hunt returns from suspension.

Duke is signed for a while,,, 2 more years I think?

We Hunt plays and does well, there is no guarantee he's resign so I have some questions about getting rid of Duke..

Kareem Hunt is an exceptional talent in both the running and passing game.

If he's able to get on the field and contribute, the Browns will be a better team for it.

Hopefully, his past transgressions are in the past.

We have RFA rights to Hunt for next season.

I think Hunt feels like he is home. He will sign here if we are anywhere close.

We gave him a 2nd chance. He will sign with us even if we don't have the best offer.

That isn't to say our offer can be 5mil off. A discount might be a mil. At minimum he will give us a second chance to close the gap.

Why trade Duke just because we signed Kareem Hunt? Duke is signed for 3 years, Hunt is a RFA after this year giving the Browns the right to match any offer he gets, and Chubb has 3 more years before he is a free agent.

This is what I would call depth at a position and until salary cap becomes an issue keep all 3. Injuries happen in the NFL.

Why ask questions that have already been answered?

I guess it's because he can post whatever the hell he wants. Someone said that here recently.

I feel sorry for you.

I can tell.

You're hilarious.

Maybe, but you're the funny one tonight. Your response to Day of the Dawg was a real knee slapper.

I get that your personal vendetta, but you might want to go back and re-read all of that. I have no problems w/him not wanting to trade Duke. But, he is the ONE who asked the question first. Not me. I just used his same technique from the polar side.

Of course, you being you, ignored what he said and decided to criticize me............w/out adding any football talk at all. It's who you are.

What a load of BS. Day of the Dawg responded to a post by Bonefish and backed it up with an opinion that differs from yours. He's said nothing to you in this thread, yet you felt a need to belittle him. It's who you are.

I was not aware of that, thanks for the info.. in that case, maybe Duke would be a little more trade ready. Again, once Hunt is with the team.

There would be strong interest in Duke.. no question about it.

.... anyway....

I don't think the whole "Duke will be traded" thing is so far off the mark. It just won't happen until it has to, though (think years, not weeks/months). Unless we get blown away by a trade offer (which isn't out of the realm of possibility... Duke's contract is easy to take on, and his talent is undeniable). Can easily see a team that's loading up for a run and could benefit greatly from a complementary back like the Duke.
But barring a team coveting him like that, Duke is here for at least another year or two before Dorsey has to do anything. I don't think there are enough touches to go around to satisfy Chubb, Hunt, and Duke... in addition to the WRs... so that's why I say that the Duke trade talk isn't all that overblown to me... just premature.

I will say one thing, though. Once Hunt is on the field, I wouldn't mind seeing that Duke Johnson WR experiment he was talking about for a little bit. I'd rather that than have his talent riding the pine.

Sorry Bone don't see that happening. Of course I could be wrong. But not this season. I've said it several times but Duke can provide impact as a WR well not can but "HAS" and will continue to do so.

Hunt coming here is him replacing Hilliard not Duke.
Replacing Duke is not an upgrade especially considering Hunt's past of immaturity. You add all the variables and Hunt is not an Upgrade on Duke.

But you take the replacing Hilliard as the result. You are talking about a tremendous UPGRADE for the team.

Again that Formation with Baker in Shotgun (3 yards from the center) and Chubb 2 yards behind Baker and Duke 1 yard back and left of Baker, Hunt on the other side mirroring Duke.

I see this becoming a formation and a OC's dream to experiment and the plays are endless. It didn't quite work with great success with Hilliard in it. But with Hunt instead of Hilliard. We will do quite well with it and I think it has possibilities of being our Base O???

Dorsey IMO didn't take the Hunt PR story on for nothing. He knows Hunt. He had the research done.

He didn't bring Hunt to Cleveland with the idea he won't play.

Duke is under a friendly contract. He is only 25. His touches went down as the season moved along.

There are only so many touches. Chubb is the lead dog. Once Hunt's suspension is announced the decision on Duke will be made.

The decision to sign Hunt was made partly with the idea to use Duke as trade capital. Use him to address another position.

I don't see them keeping Duke, Hunt, and Chubb. I think they like Hilliard as insurance. Duke is too valuable to sit behind Hunt.

There is no reason to believe that Hunt will step out of line. Why would he? Way to much on the line.

If the suspension is over 8 games then maybe Duke stays for the year. In any event he will gone between now and next year.

Who said Hunt won't play... Just saying it doesn't really upgrade the Browns with him taking the place of Duke and Hilliard staying.

Just stating one thing. Hunt replacing Hilliard not Duke makes the Browns different and much better.

Duke's friendly contract is another reason to keep him here.

Hunts suspension just that alone makes us ridding ourselves of Duke not a smart move. I wouldn't advise you to bet on that prediction.

Hunt still has to EARN his way onto our roster and getting reps. He has to prove he has matured.

Just don't see Duke gone like you say he is.

Doesn't make sense nor makes the Browns better. You keep Hilliard on board but not Duke???

Sorry Bone ya missed the boat on this one. jmho and nothing more.

Hunt replacing Duke in and of itself would be a huge upgrade.

Duke's contract isn't terrible. But after guaranteed money it's still over 8 mil. for three years. That's close to 3 mil per season.

I don't believe Duke will be gone unless they extend Hunts contract. But if and when they do, with both Chubb and Hunt, paying almost 3 mil a year for your third RB doesn't make sense from a salary cap standpoint.

Now if Duke can move to WR that may be a different scenario. But that remains to be seen. It's not that I don't like Duke as a player. I would just like for someone to show me an example of another NFL team who pays their third RB almost three million a season. I don't think there is one.

Duke is not moving to slot receiver.

We shall see how it plays out.

Duke is not Hunt.

When asked about Duke being expendable he stated "not yet".

Let see what he says when they announce what Hunt's suspension is? He will say thanks and good luck.

I don't think will "find a new position" at this point in his career either. Just throwing a few Dawgs a bone.

I would keep all three and let Duke play the slot WR like he likes to play. I could even see plays where all three are on the field at the same time creating total chaos. That is a lot of shiftiness to cover out in space.

Hunt replacing Duke in and of itself would be a huge upgrade.

Why does that not surprise me...lol

I said what I said and don't wish to be redundant. If anyone wishes to talk football with me. Its about making the team better. What ever you think -huge upgrade. Don't agree but the fact is this.

Chubb, Duke & Hunt or Chubb, Hilliard & Hunt.

I'll take option #1 all day long!

FWIW: I think it is equally likely that Hunt is an April bargaining chip for a big trade up as it is he plays for us in August and beyond. It is exactly the sort of master stroke that this front office sees as opportunity to get better. No risk, all reward.

It's just a fact Tab. How much cap space do you think a team will tie up in this day and age at the RB position? That's the "football part" you keep ignoring. Once again, do you think in today's NFL a team is willing to pay their "3rd RB on the depth chart" almost 3 mil. per season?

Duke is certainly safe this year with the looming suspension of Hunt. But, IF Hunt is signed to a long term contract, Duke is most likely gone. Why? NFL teams don't pay the third RB on their depth chart almost 3 mil. per season.

FACT? come on Pit...Duke has a very Browns friendly contract. 3 mil with all bonuses cap hit.

Chubb 1.6 mil cap hit.

Hunt .975 mil cap hit.

So talking about 5.5 mil for this RB position cap hit...OH NO WE ARE DOOMED and it hanicaps us

come on Pit. Zeke Elliot is just under 8.mil in cap hit alone.
So we are not a big deal in cap hit that you say I'm ignoring.

How much cap space do I think a team will tie up in this day and age.

I think if you tell every team they have Chubb, Duke and Hunt for under 6 mil they would dance in the streets.

So you are trying to somehow school me with a MADE UP NARRATIVE of keeping Duke puts us in this terrible expenditure for the entire RB position.

You actually should do your homework before you try to Miss Lead all that I've painted myself in a corner and once again you are the smartest guy in the room..

Give it up Pit.

No, your reading comprehension is just poor.

I said that Duke would be safe this year. For all of the reasons you mentioned. But if Hunt pans out, in 2020 his cap hit will be MUCH larger. That's when you don't pay your 3rd string RB almost 3 mil.

And it's funny how you avoided the question. Let's try again shall we?

Please name an NFL team that pays their 3rd string RB almost 3 mil.

Good luck with that.

I agree, Duke is safe this year. I think it depends on if Dorsey views Hunt as a long term guy, or just a guy that he can use to get more draft capital. Either way I'm fine with because I like chubb. But chubb and hunt are a formidable duo and both could carry the load if needed

to be honest i can see duke and hunt being trade options for future draft picks

I could see Duke being traded at some point .... but if Hunt stays away from trouble, why would we trade him? We would have an affordable and dangerous RB duo ... quite possibly the best in the NFL. That's not something you break up.

Yeah, well not so quick.

Hunt is cheap THIS year. By all accounts he will be suspended for a portion of this year. We only have him on a one year deal.

At the end of this season, Hunt won't be cheap anymore. That's when real decisions have to be made. But common sense dictates a choice will certainly be made at that point. If we sign Hunt to a long term deal every ounce of common sense says Duke will be gone at that point.

Dorsey drafted both Hunt and Chubb. Dorsey has no ties to Duke. With a big contract signed by Hunt, no NFL team is going to pay their third string RB almost 3mil.

I know Tab wants to keep fighting about it but the writing is obviously on the wall at that point.

don't we technically control hunt next year too since he will only be an RFA?

Depending on the length of his suspension, Hunt will be either a ERFA or an RFA. A 1st round RFA tender in 2018 was around $4 million. Very affordable for a player of Hunt's ability. If he remains an ERFA, he would get a far more modest amount.

I think that if he gets through this year without issue, the Browns could try and work out a long term deal with him after this season, and if they don't come to an agreement, then he's an RFA. No big deal.

I don't really see how any of that changes anything I posted.

Yep we'd be able to keep all 3 next year and 3 more just like them for less than somebody is going to pay Leveon Bell this year.

It would be stupid to get rid of a weapon like Duke in the next two years unless we got something equally valuable in return for him.

Quite frankly I don't respect your football enough to believe you are the guy who determines our depth chart.

I see you totally ignored the fact that our RBs Duke, Chubb and Hunt add up to a cap hit of less than 6 mil when you clearly stated that it was going to be much much more and an unheard of amount.

Now you change it to your made up fantasy of the 3rd string RB...

Show me where he is named as our 3rd string RB? I apologize as I actually try to deal with FACTS not your made up stuff to make you look like the smartest guy in the room.

It's just a fact Tab. How much cap space do you think a team will tie up in this day and age at the RB position? That's the "football part" you keep ignoring.

As you can see I did not ignore it and gave a detailed answer to your Question. You were way off base and out of ignorance didn't respond to what I showed you. A RB position for the team to be well within the norm of what an NFL team would have it at.

Then along with the quote above you did state your made up FACT of 3 mil for a 3rd string RB.

Made up. Because I see Duke producing in the Run game but also in the Air game.

I'll just take our Division.

Steelers depth chart of 3rd string RB. Steven Ridley and Trey Edmunds.

Ridley: 80 yards rushing and 3 receptions. 2 lost fumbles.1 rushing TD

Edmunds: 0 rushes, 0 Receptions.

Ravens
Ty Montgomery: 83 yds rushing 0 TD, 10 receptions 65 yds 0 TDs.

Bengals
Mark Walton: 34 yds rushing 0 TD, 5 receptions 41 yds 0 TD

Duke: 201 yds rushing 0 TD, 47 receptions 429 yard 3 TD.

But to you he is a 3rd string RB.

He will he has slowly showed impact more to the Air game and that still will go on. You can make up some fantasy narrative to make you look like the smartest guy in the room.

But he will provide impact to this team and nothing of the sort resembling a "3rd String RB"

So stop making stuff up and say "FACT" you really don't know what you are talking about do you...

The football part...lol you didn't really say that all you did was ignore my discussion towards your football part. And then grasping for straws make up a fact that he is a 3rd stringer and who would pay a 3rd stringer 3 mil.

Prove it that he is a 3rd stringer. What remotely beckons you to state he will put up Statistics and impact for the Browns that a NORMAL 3rd string RB would. smh Just say you are wrong and lets leave it alone. I won't bring it up to make you look bad, we will forget about it OK?

I don't really care if a homer doesn't respect my football. Those who I respect on this board do respect my football breakdowns. You are not among those.

It's very simple. If Hunt is re-singed he will make in the neighborhood of four million dollars. He and Chubb will be the feature backs, not Duke. That will make Duke third on the depth chart. Nobody pays the RB that's third on the depth chart almost 3 mil. It's just not done in the NFL.

Dorsey has zero ties to Duke and didn't draft him. Unless Duke is moved to WR, which I find very doubtful as he's been in the league for four years and will be entering his 5th NFL season, he will be expendable.

I'm sorry you can't do the math on this one. The feelings we have for each other is mutual so you can quit trying to pat yourself on the back. Of course if anyone is going to do it, it will have to be you.

Yada yada yada, where's the beef. smh

Please, both of you, cease and desist with the bickering. It adds nothing to the thread...

I'm not making the silly argument that an NFL team will pay the RB that's 3rd on the depth chart almost 3 mil.

I mean even John Dosey wouldn't commit to Duke long term. Here's what he said.....

John Dorsey: Duke Johnson not expendable “yet”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/11/john-dorsey-says-duke-johnson-not-expendable-yet/

What a glowing endorsement.

When the Browns have been at their best, They have had 2 powerful running backs. Brown/Green .. Kelly/Green .. Byner/Mack. I'm not ignoring Bernie, or Frank Ryan, but none of those duos had a QB who could do the things Mayfield can. And none of those duos had a number 3 behind them like Duke. I know that Kelly played as the #3 behind Brown/Green in his rookie year, but Duke is more proven now than Kelly was at that time. I am happy with what the running back position brings to the table.

You forgot Pruitt and Pruitt

Kitchens: Hunt can do 'most good' in Cleveland

4:08 PM ET
Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer

Kareem Hunt may be able to do "the most good" returning to the field in his hometown, Cleveland Browns coach Freddie Kitchens said at the NFL combine on Wednesday.

The Browns signed Hunt a few months after a video from February 2018 was released that showed him shoving and kicking a woman during an early-morning altercation outside his downtown Cleveland residence.

The video, and the fact that Hunt had lied about it, prompted the Kansas City Chiefs to release the running back.

"Kareem has to be willing, has to show remorse and be willing to make a change," Kitchens told the media at the combine in Indianapolis. "And he's shown us that. It could be in Kansas City, Cleveland, that doesn't matter.

"In a lot of ways, you know, it's more important for Kareem to make those advances and to evolve into a better person in his hometown. That's where he's going to do the most good.

"There's some good that can come out of this. We never justify anything that's happened. But there's some good that can come out of this if he keeps evolving and keeps doing the things he's supposed to do to become a better person. And we'll worry about the football stuff later. But right now we're in the Kareem Hunt business of making him a better person."

Hunt, who grew up in Willoughby, outside Cleveland, signed a one-year contract with the Browns on Feb. 12.

He faces a significant suspension from the NFL for violating its personal conduct policy. He remains on the commissioner's exempt list.

Hunt's family in the Cleveland area has had its share of legal issues. His father was arrested in January and charged with selling crack cocaine, according to Cleveland.com. USA Today reported in December that Hunt's father has been arrested at least 35 times and has been sentenced to prison terms for drug-related offenses.

He also has been arrested on charges of domestic violence, and Hunt's mother, brother and stepfather have also been arrested and convicted for various offenses, including cocaine possession and drug trafficking, USA Today reported.

The Browns said Hunt sought counseling before they signed him, and he has committed to continue with counseling in the future. Kitchens said over and over that Hunt has told him he's "remorseful" about what happened.

"Now it's our job to move forward and support him and get him to a place as an individual and as a person to give him the opportunity, a second chance, per se," Kitchen said. "The second chance is not now. He's got a lot of work to do between now and that time the second chance comes. We'll see how that goes. Right now we're day to day and just trying ... to offer him support where he needs to become a better person to get him eventually on the field."

Kitchens said that Nick Chubb is the Browns' primary running back. He also acknowledged that the decision to sign Hunt might not be "accepted in a positive nature" by everyone.

"But in saying that, it's those issues that you can have the biggest growth too," Kitchens said. "Let's don't forget that this is a people business and we're in the people-building business and then we'll get to the football later. But our foremost thing right now for Kareem Hunt is to offer him support to be the man that he wants to be, and that's where we're at."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26094824/kitchens-hunt-do-most-good-cleveland

Does anyone know when a ruling on Hunt's suspension is scheduled to be made?

Has Goodell even removed Hunt from the Commissioner's Exempt List?

I would imagine that it would be in July.

I have no idea about the whole process.

I would think that given this case and the time that has passed that there is plenty of time to come to some ruling?

The Browns should not be penalized for the signing by the commissioner's office. An answer allows us to make roster decisions.

I thought I had seen something around the time we signed him that there was a hope/expectation that we would have something from the Commish before Free Agency opens.

j/c:

I know this probably would never happen other than in my imagination, but us trading Hunt to the Steelers for Antonio Brown would actually make sense for both teams.

That makes a lot more sense than some of those wild scenarios the pundits throw out.

j/c:

Call me crazy, but I think what is lost in the Kareem Hunt signing, if he plays well, is Chubb being a trade target moreso than Duke ( or any backup RB if Duke is traded this offseason).

There is no way on this earth that Chubb is being traded.

Why is that? If Hunt plays lights out in 2019 ( in the games available to him, of course).... maximize Cubbs value at that point when RBs are a plenty.

You have Hunt for one year before you need to make a decision.

And that’s what makes him valuable in the trade market too.

Not that I have heard.

In looking back, the NFL puts these things on the backburner. They get to them when there is nothing better to do.

Hunt? Sure. Him too, but I don't know if you're willing to part ways with him.

You are almost certainly right, but it's not like it is a bad idea. I don't believe in limiting your options. Eric Dickerson was traded. So was Marshall Faulk. Those dudes are HOFers.

Buy low and sell high. HIs potential value is high and marketable. The almost sure thing is selling that potential.

this...

NFL loves to allow a guy to go all the way through training camp, build chemistry with the starters, take up another players opportunity to shine, and then booommmmm... right before preseason, hes gone for 10 games.

He should already know his suspension, smdh.

Heard something interesting on moving the chains today. Haven't read thhis thread so don't know if it was mentioned.

Jim Miller was talking about guys signing 1 year show me contracts and mentioned Hunt. Pat Kirwin pointed out that Hunt is different because at the end of the season he is going to be an exclusive rights free agent.

I didn't realize that. Not sure how to confirm it so sorry for no link

Speaking of Hunt, would it be very much to ask for the NFL to let us know about his pending "availability" (or lack thereof) in the 2019 season? It matters in regards to how we approach the FA portion of the off season and also how we approach the draft. We're not splitting the atom here, just decide his length of suspension and whether there will be any "time served" relief for the games he missed after his release in in 2018.

I believe that he's only an ERFA is his suspension is more than 10 games.

I hope that request is granted.

Could only be a good thing. Truth be told, not granting it would seem a bit absurd.

I've long felt that suspended players should be able to do everything as a teammate but suit up for games. Being in a positive environment, instead of sitting on his hands, or worse, hanging out with people he shouldn't because he's bored.

Completely agree... how does it help having a player away from the team for several weeks?

Anybody remember the story of Josh Hamilton the baseball player?

So do I,, all too often we abandon them and that's when problems are more likely to occur. JMO, but allowing them to be with the team and allowing them to feel like a member has got to be helpful.

j/c

I'll just say that I have to agree with those saying it seems like the NFL policy of banishing players away from the team and the stadium during suspensions seems counterproductive to giving them support and supplying them with a positive environment with which to thrive. Having played sports during times of difficulty in my life have shown me that there's no better support system than team and family.

I don't,, enlighten me

Not only that, but also to see what they are missing. Being with the team, but only allowed to watch, could possibly be a great motivational tool...

Yes. I do remember Josh Hamilton.

In 2000 he was the best prospect in baseball, a natural hitter with power and speed. He was on the verge of making it to the majors when he was involved in an auto accident the injured him in a way that he had to take time off. Idle for the first time in his life, he started hanging out with the wrong people and ended up drug addicted (+ alcohol). After repeated failed drug tests, he was suspended in 2004 having never made it to the majors.

He got sober (with great difficulty), and over the span of years, worked his way back to the league via the independent leagues. He finally made it to the majors in 2007. For the next several years he was agueably the best player in the game, he was the AL MVP in 2010. His performance in the 2008 all-star home run derby still holds the record for most HR in a single round (28) and the most HR on consecutive pitches (13).

But injuries started to take their toll, and in 2015, while off injured, he relapsed. He was on major league rosters for a few more years, but played his last game in 2015.

He's been called 'The Natural' because of the similarity between his story and the fictional Roy Hobbs. Drug addiction/alcoholism cost him 6 years of early career and cut the end of his career short, but in his prime, he was among the best in the game. What could have been...

And it all started with hanging out with the wrong people.

That should show you how little baseball I watch.. LOL Hell of a story,,, thanks

j/c:

I think we are all pretty much in agreement here. It's kind of a sensitive subject, but let's look at it a bit closer.

Backdrop: Hunt was reportedly very drunk when he had that incident. I believe his other two incidents also involved alcohol.

Sensitive part: I think anyone--or knows someone who has had/has an alcohol/drug problem understands that idleness often leads to depression which in turns leads to further abuse of alcohol/drugs.

Thus, if Hunt is isolated from his team and is forced to watch them from afar, he might very well become depressed and be more likely to partake in activities that he believes will help him forget about his problems. Self-guilt is a major component of many alcohol and drug abusers.

Conversely, staying busy and being in a structured environment is often helpful for those who turn to "partying" to avoid their depression.

Thus, I think the NFL needs to reexamine their policy and allow the players to remain a part of the team. I get that they feel the need to punish the player's transgressions, but rehabilitation is far more important in the grand scheme of things.

I understand and agree with the sentiment, but not the proposed implementation.

The team and football is not what will keep him sober. His program of recovery and the people around that is the only thing that will do that. Can there be overlap? Yes, there can, but it isn't a given. What is of utmost importance is that no matter what the league states in regard to his employment and permission to show up to his job, he is absolutely free to pursue sobriety with sober people. The BROWNS are not what will keep him (or Josh Gordon) sober. If he doesn't have a separate program of recovery that is apart from football, then he will never be sober if he is ever separated from football. It really is that simple and clear cut.

That said, what you say about a structured environment does hold true as long as the person surrenders to the structure (or has that choice taken away as it is with something court-ordered).... but, that's the whole crux of recovery itself - surrendering to the fact that your way doesn't work and accepting that you need to start living a new way.

While I certainly agree with your sentiment, setting up the best environment and possible scenario to assist someone certainly helps.

Absolutely, and I would never discount that, ever, but it does not change that his recovery needs to exist and be strong outside of ANY part of his life that might go away (e.g. football). If it isn't, then it isn't going to last - guaranteed.

So, while I totally agree that it could/would likely be helpful to him if the league changed that policy, it is by no means necessary. I mean, hell.. we could all use an employer that is supportive of us, but life can be plenty good if it isn't, ya know?

Once again you are correct. But one must consider that the NFL has taken the stand that they care about the rehabilitation and the life of their players.

So they publicly claim to be supportive of their players. And let's face it, the NFL is a part of the entertainment business and is under the microscope. So if they plan to actually back up their public claims of being supportive of their players one would expect they try to make an effort to do so.

I think we can tend to over emphasize someone's "addiction" when looking from the outside. Is he an alcoholic or is he just a product of dumb decisions and hanging with the wrong crowd? Alcohol and addiction may not be the demons to the extent of a Josh Gordon. Maybe he just needs to see how professionals carry themselves and removing him from that just makes dumb decisions more likely.

Either way, the NFL banishing these players from "structure" just seems very counterproductive. Not being eligible to play seems punishment enough.

Absolutely. WE don't know.

If he's not alcoholic, then he probably just needs mentoring... maybe a guy like Landry to tell him to stop being a dumbass.

As for the banning.... I think the reason for it is deeper: when a player is banned/suspended, they do not count toward the roster, they do not accrue games toward an accrued season, and they do not receive any pay. Saying that you are going to enforce all of that, but then require the player to still come around the team, practice, and everything else? The CBA and NFLPA would blow that up in a heartbeat, and any insurance involved probably would as well (if the player got injured during a practice when he was suspended, what insurance company would cover that?? None). Also, it hits the teams - which gives the teams and extra incentive to make efforts that their players don't end up in that spot in the first place.

In the end, I have no problem with supporting the enforcement of accountability, or of any parties being protective of themselves while a player is suspended. It is a business, afterall.





Well, they may insinuate as much, but I think we all know that this is just P.R. lipservice. They don't actually care; they only care that people THINK they care.

Just to look at another side, what if he got hurt while at the facilities?

I think there are liability issues that make it cleaner to just say he can have no contact until he starts getting paid again.

Great points Purp.

Can someone clarify exactly what "...he's left the door open..." means?

True enough, I just personally feel as if it's better if he's with the team rather than Isolated... Why not pursue sobriety with and beyond the team?

In a nut shell... Hunt was still young in his mistakes and they are pretty incidental compared with Rice's sucker punch of his Fiance. Or was it his wife???

Anyway I'm a big believer in sticking with somebody who can take control of their lives and do not repeat the mistakes of the past. He doesn't seem to have anything habitual, I don't think he's an Alcoholic but it seems his mistakes have been when he is under the influence of Alcohol. If we can remember our college days at least for me there were no intense cameras for these actions to be caught in action. So many can be deemed equal to or worse. And although no Angel I was not the worst.

I think he can mature. In many cases if they meet the right woman and get married it changes them almost over night!

I am not too worried about Hunt. But I can't wait for the Players new agreement to have all suspensions under supervision of the team including working out with the team. Sending him off without the ability to have any contact with the team which usually is the best Support unit that they have. I thought it was always a stupid rule.

jmho

I'm guessing it means he's not going to make an announcement yet and will hope people forget about it due to the next "crisis"/crazy story/mega trade. Maybe that means he's going to let Hunt stick around unless public pressure mounts. Any announcement would have its detractors, so he's probably trying to slip it under the radar.

Or he might have more hoops for Hunt to jump through to be allowed to hang around.

It's hard to say.

There's a saying in AA (one of many); "If your drinking causes problems, you have a drinking problem." I'm not saying he is an alcoholic, but if drinking is a common thread in his misbehavior, it is something he and those offering him guidance should address.

My use of the term alcoholic is primarily to signify that he is going to be able to Improve his Faulty character, if he was an Alcoholic then he won't stand much of a chance to control his behavior.

That was sort of what I was suggesting there.

Can you imagine not only Chubb and Duke but freaking Kareem Hunt in the backfield??????

AMAZING!

John Dorsey is a GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick Chubb:



Duke Johnson:



and...

Kareem Hunt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXvLeE0UGyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tZrsIwERBQ&t=99s

Duke highlights. 4 runs, the rest as a Receiver: Hmmm makes ya wonder. Well I've been claiming, you all can wonder...lol

Watching that.... I enjoyed the Johnny moments... I hope he catches on and pans out somewhere. Wishing him the best.

j/c:

Hunt, the person:

'Freddie Kitchens, John Dorsey attend Kareem Hunt’s baptism on Sunday'

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05...-on-sunday.html

P.S. I hope he's sincere. If so, this is definitely a step in the right direction.

I think that this is the sort of thing Kitchens was talking about when he said that Hunt has things he can learn from Chubb, too.

Chubb is such an old school, throwback, "Sir/Ma'am, Please/Thank you" kinda guy with such a strong work ethic and sense of morals and manners... there is a LOT a guy like Hunt can learn from Chubb in the way of "what sort of person do you want to be?" and "how are you going to conduct yourself?"... and that sort of maturation flows back to football and the way you approach life and the game.

I wish someone would have told him he could have been instantly absolved for his ridiculousness and stupidity if he had just jumped into Lake Erie in June. It's clearly worked before.

And..... there it is. Some people just can't leave it alone. Then it becomes everyone elses fault.

your schtick is getting old. you oughtta move on.

Some people get so triggered. It's too bad.

Feel free to place me on ignore.

And some people spend their time trying to trigger others like it's their favorite past time. The longer things go on the more people see your agenda and lack of being able to let things go. They make medication for that.

You might want to go check your post activity in a certain thread and reconsider your "letting things go" comment.

Weren't you in that search count excercise?

The situation is similar regarding Hunt's desire to be reborn and forget all of his poor decision-making. And making a joke about a ridiuclous ritual for either person was the point. So, yes, you're triggered again.

I don't go to church and I am not religious, but I think Hunt turning towards the church is a really good thing. It shows he is trying to turn his life around. Surrounding himself w/good people is important.

I also think that it's a great thing to see that Dorsey and Freddie attended. It's promoting a caring, family atmosphere.

I may be hokey for thinking these things, but I see this as a positive story.

Ignore him, Pit. Don't give him what he wants.

No, I just know pathetic when I see it.

j/c
Pretty easy at times, to push buttons on here...

Freddie Kitchens, John Dorsey show Kareem Hunt they support him as a person

Kitchens, Dorsey surprise Hunt at his baptism Sunday

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/freddie-kitchens-john-dorsey-support-kareem-hunt-person

Rocky River, Ohio (92.3 The Fan) – Cleveland Browns general manager John Dorsey and head coach Freddie Kitchens surprised Kareem Hunt Sunday.

They wanted to be there to support Hunt at his baptism.

“We care about Kareem as a person,” Kitchens said Monday at the 20th annual Browns Foundation golf outing held at Westwood Country Club. “We went there for Kareem Hunt as the person and not the football player. The thing we did yesterday was not about football at all, it was about Kareem as the person.”

Hunt’s agent Dan Saffron posted a picture of Hunt standing with Dorsey and Kitchens on Instagram after the ceremony.

From the moment the Browns signed Hunt both Dorsey and Kitchens have both said that they wanted to help Hunt as a person first and foremost with his football talent coming second.

Showing up Sunday was a way of showing Hunt that actions speak louder than words.

“I care about Kareem Hunt 50 years from now,” Kitchens said. “What’s going to make him have a better chance at succeeding in his life 50 years from now? And that’s not lip service from me and that’s not lip service from John Dorsey. So, from time to time you have to show that. But to show that, you’re showing it for the person again. You’re not showing it to prove a point or anything. We showed up to support him as a person.”

Helping Hunt rehabilitate as a man is the No. 1 priority of Kitchens and Dorsey, who are all in on the troubled running back.

Football comes second.

“That’s the way I have always approached coaching even at Mississippi State or North Texas or wherever I have been,” Kitchens said. “It’s always been about the person. I feel like John is the same way.”

According to Dorsey and Kitchens, Hunt has been a model citizen since signing for the league minimum in February.

Hunt, who has been suspended by the NFL for the first eight games of the upcoming season for his off-the-field behavior, has checked all the boxes to reestablish his public image since that infamous video in February 2018 of him pushing and kicking a woman in the hallway outside of his residence at the Metropolitan at The 9 which, when it became public, led to his release from the Chiefs surface in late November of last year.

He has apologized, is attending counseling twice a week, is doing community service and has also found his faith.

“Kareem understands the things that have happened happened, and nobody's going to dispute that,” Kitchens said. “But he also understands it's a new day for you, it's a new day for me every time we week up, and you either get better or you get worse during the course of that day. Kareem understands that and he's doing a good job of just staying in the moment and continuing to strive to get better and making good choices each and every day.

“I think [Sunday] was just another step for him to do that.”

Kitchens has come to admire Hunt’s willingness to tell his story to kids. And not the one about how he led the NFL in rushing as a rookie either.

“One of the most one of the truest forms of bravery is showing your scars,” Kitchens said. “You show your scars so people don’t make the same mistakes that you make. And Kareem has done an exceptional job of showing his scars out in the public and some of these schools he’s visited without any advertisement at all. He’s chosen to do that to sorta show his scars so maybe some of the other kids don’t make the same [ones].”

Redemption stories are always hits and the Browns believe they’ve found one in Hunt.

This is awesome. I feel very uneasy about Hunt being on my team but it is very cool to see him, seemingly genuinely, try to get on the right track with the support of John Dorsey and Freddie Kitchens. I commend all who are involved.

Good for him "With God All Things Are Possible"

The more I hear Freddie speak, the more sure I am that he's a good guy.

I think that the players realize that as well. Not in an "I'm going to walk all over him" way, but in a "I'll not only run through a wall for him, but through 2 semi trailers, and the wall on the other side of the road as well".

I don't feel it's hokey at all to feel that way.

Amen!

I hope he does turn his life around. I hope he is a great player for the Browns too. Personally, I would not have signed him. But I'm old-school. I find what he did reprehensible. If from now on he keeps his nose clean and his stuff together then I guess it's fine. As a player, he's a top-five running back. How they will get Hunt AND Chub enough carries is a real question...

I hope so. I hope he is the right coach for this team. I know we let a coach go that won 7 games and had us playing good football. So he BETTER be the right guy He does seem to be a really nice guy. That can be either good or bad. Schrödinger's cat... Time will tell.

ALL eyes are on Cleveland rght now. That's a lot of pressure.

From a football perspective, their loss is our gain.

Our backfield is outstanding, probably the best in the league. I like the dynamics also. Too many times we see teams that have a great young back like Chubb, and they run him into the ground. Young backs can handle it for a while but it catches up to them.

It's better to have another great young talent to split the workload up. It's good for Chubb because he can stay fresh for longer... that means (hopefully) deep into the playoffs, but also on a year-to-year basis; it'll probably help him get bigger money in his second contract.

It's good for Hunt because he might still be out of a job if it weren't for the Browns willing to take a chance on him. He can rehabilitate his image and show he's still a great player in this league. He still has a bright future as long as he doesn't have any repeats of last off-season.

And of course it's nice for the Browns to have 2 great young backs to lean on. I know we all want a fine-tuned juggernaut in week 1 but we still have a young quarterback and new offense. It's going to take some time to gel and to be able to lean on a great back or two is a nice luxury to have.

If I remember correctly, both Chicago and Kansas City approached him the same time we did.

Which is strange .. because KC knee jerked cut him.

It's strange. I find myself pretending Hunt is not even on the team. A lot of things can happen in 2 months (A LOT):

- The Chubb/Hilliard combo might light it up, and we won't want to mess with it too much.

- The Chubb/Duke combo likewise.

- Chubb might get injured early, and we'll have to bring in someone else to help Hilliard or Duke.

- Hunt might have another off-field issue.

- D'Ernest or Trayvone might come out of the woodwork somehow (ST?) and be a larger part of our offense.

- Maybe we trade him (I don't know the appropriate dates) - once eligible - for a player at a different position for which we are in dire need at the time.

Etc.....

Too many variables. I choose to pretend he's not going to help us at all. If he gets on the field in 2 months, and we have a healthy Chubb/Hunt/Hilliard backfield, then that will be icing.

It's hard to imagine a Chubb/Hunt backfield going into the future after this season.

This is what I found:

Link

Dorsey didn't sign Hunt for an 8 game rental. That makes absolutely no sense. The Browns retain his rights, he will be a restricted FA at the end of this season. What Dorsey and the Browns' have done to help him rehabilitate his career creates a huge incentive for him to remain in Cleveland.

I'd be interested to hear your scenario where he's out of Cleveland after this season.

Just a hunch, an opinion. Nothing more.

Like I said, if we go into November and December with a healthy backfield of Chubb/Hunt/(whomever), that would be the icing.

If that's the case, I suspect Dorsey wouldn't hesitant to pull the trigger on a trade in the offseason that would net us a position of need at some point. He's not been hesitant to do this so far.

Anyway, no specific scenario. Just interesting to speculate at the slow time of the year.

Here's to hoping we find a way to have the most potent backfield in the AFCN for the next few years!

Hunt Is on the team, reagardless of whether you Like it or Not!

Chubb and Hunt are both on the team Now, so if you don't like them being on the team after this season, Maybe Don't Watch!

If and or But? Tell me where anything you said before ended up as you claimed?

This is a good take, but let's say that Hunt stays out of trouble and Chubb keeps balling. Dorsey can trade one of them for assets. I don't think that will happen, but it's an option.

LOL, the Browns once traded Bobby Mitchell so I know that it's possible. A deal involving Hunt would have to be very lucrative.

Looking at how the roster is built right now, I see position depth as our only real need. I don't envision trading him for depth. But hey, stranger things have happened.

This is an edit, just read another Pete Smith article on Brownsmaven. He has a "next level" assessment of the potential to move Duke and Hunt. It makes me uncomfortable as a fan but it might make sense if you're managing a roster. I wouldn't do it though.

Brownsmaven

I don't expect much from Hunt this season. Considering it won't start for him until we are half way into it. I expect him to be Chubbs backup to give him a blow.

If we get in the playoffs maybe we would see more from him as he should be fresh!

jmho

Really? ... i don’t see that at all ...

I see him being eased in over the first 3 or 4 games after that ... he needs to see the field ... i’d envision some sort of split in the 60/40 range with whoever has the hot hand that week getting the 60 ...

I also expect to see more two back sets than we’ve seen since the days of the FB being a fixture ... *L* ...

Over rthe last 30 years theres not a backfield that comes close to the talent we have in those two ... your turning into a pessimist at the wrong time bro ... *L* ...

He’s too good ... as is Chubb ...

Yeah I see hunt contributing immediately. He's a better player than Chubb. Now not saying Chubb is a slouch as he's damn good in his own right, but Hunt is a proven dude. Chubb still has to prove himself. Hunt will be ready to go for sure. Scariest backfield I've seen in quite some time

I find this a hard path for me to follow. Chubb is on cheap rookie deal and Hunt will be a FA after this season. For us to trade Hunt we would have to sign him to new contract first. I mean it would be near impossible to trade him before seasons end because most teams would not wish to trade for a player whose contract ends in a matter of weeks only to risk losing him if they can't work out a new deal.

I think it would be foolish to trade a young, talented RB like Chubb who is producing so well on the cheap rookie deal. That just doesn't make sense to me from a salary cap perspective.

No, to me we either sign Hunt to a new contract, rework an extension for him or he would be the odd man out. It's possible we do a sign and trade deal with Hunt but I certainly can't envision a scenario where Chubb leaves.

j/c

every time I see this thread title, I'm reminded of this:

lol

Agree about Chubb. Hunt's situation is a little more complicated as players need four accrued seasons to qualify for unrestricted free agency. Hunt will have three after this season (and that's assuming he stays out of trouble), so he'll be a restricted free agent.

This explains it more: https://operations.nfl.com/updates/football-ops/2019-nfl-free-agency-faq/

I find this all very confusing. He was drafted in 2017. That would make this his third season. I thought drafted rookies were signed to four year contracts. So how is it he even qualifies for the status of RFA after only three seasons?

His rookie contract was voided when the chefs cut him .... we signed him to a 1 year deal .... so he’s going to be a FA after the season due to the fact his contract will have expired .... the fact he’s only going to have 2 or 3 seasons of accrued service after this year is why he is a RFA ... and the reason we hold all the cards and will either get him or a nice chunk in exchange .....

Being on his rookie contract has nothing to do with what level of FA he qualifies for ... that totally depends on years of accrued service ....

And if we do decide to part with Hunt or Chubb after this year may be another reason we’re holding onto Duke .... we’ll know more soon and this will all be over when TC breaks at the latest .... well til week 9 when Hunt can play ... *L* ...

Thanks for the explanation.

I just want to be clear because I think there is some confusion. I am not saying we will trade either guy. I am not saying that we should trade either guy. I am just saying it would be an option.

Another possibility would be to get a draft pick through the restricted free agency system.

So as one possibility, say he has a big finish to the year, and we tender him at the second round level. This would mean he would be tendered a contract for about $3 million for 2020. Teams would be able to offer Hunt a contract.

The Browns could then either match the contract, or let him go to the other team, but they'd have to give up a second rounder.

The Browns are in a good position. It's almost like having Hunt under a rookie contract in some respects, though also a bit different.

3,4 game ease him in...the season is almost over. I stated Playoffs will be a different story.

Also we don't know if Duke is traded by game 8 or not that will play a big part in that role. If we keep Duke I don't think we will see too much of Hunt.

Hard to tell of course. His work in Training camp will be important. I hate the fact that once the season starts he will not be in contact with us...Unless we got special permission to keep him in practices???

jmho

Rumors going around that Hunt was in a fight outside a Cleveland bar last night. Have no idea to the truth, really nothing substantial reported yet.

https://dailysnark.com/report-browns-rb-...T8RUIpwv_LcT6pM

https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/c7rcbc/kareem_hunt_involved_in_fight_outside_barley/

Nothing but unsubstantiated rumors with zero legitmate sources at this point. Hopefully it ends right there.

I doubt it.

If this is the case, this will basically mean that it's time to mend all fences with the Duke. We both need each other. And he needs to know, that he just isn't going anywhere

Update:

KAREEM HUNT
VIDEO WITH COPS
After 'Small Argument' With Friend

https://www.tmz.com/2019/07/01/kareem-hunt-police-officers-video-cleveland/


TMZ Sports has obtained video of NFL star Kareem Hunt talking with several police officers this weekend in Cleveland after a night of partying after an alleged "small argument" with a friend.

Here's what we know so far ... the Cleveland Browns running back went to the Barley House party spot on Saturday night with a bunch of friends and stayed late into the evening.

Right after he left, SOMETHING happened -- and several cops went over to speak with the 23-year-old. He wasn't arrested. Wasn't detained. He left without incident.

But, a witness tells TMZ Sports ... Hunt was involved in a physical altercation with another man before the cops came over. The witness wasn't sure if it was a "real" fight or if he was just horsing around with a buddy.

At one point, one of the officers can be heard on video telling Kareem, "I saw him push you."

Barley House owner Bobby George told WKYC3 that Hunt was involved in a "small argument with one of his friends ... People blew it out of proportion."

We reached out to the Cleveland PD but despite the video, they have no record of the interaction -- "There wasn't a police report or any calls that we have located."

Either way, it's notable considering Hunt had publicly stated he was seeking help for alcohol and anger management in the wake of TMZ Sports posting video showing him in a 2018 physical altercation with a woman.

We reached out to Hunt's rep for comment -- but so far, no word back.

Video with police officers doesn't really tell us much. I'd rather see the video of this overblown argument with a friend.. if it exists that is.

Not good that a man undergoing help for alcohol is in a bar ......

This is starting to feel like JG all over again ... being at a bar at closing is a dumb ass decision for him right now ..

I bet KJ and Freddie are not happy right about now ... who cares what he did ... the fact he was there was not real smart at all ...

Come on dude .. make better decisions ... don’t throw this chance away ...

I was a little worried when I saw mention of the rumor on Twitter. Considering TMZ's penchant for putting things in the worst possible light, I'm a little less worried now.

What is posted above sounds like it's a 'mountain out of molehill' situation. But I agree, being at a bar at closing is not how you walk the straight and narrow path to redemption.

so I gather, somebody and TMz got together to give this video to tmz, probably at a financial gain for the video maker.

2. above posts say cops sait to Hunt, I saw him push you,

What this could mean is Hunt totally acted in a way to not respond and not let anything happen even though he was being provoked.

If so, it would be an example of doing the right thing, to keep from being furtur suspended anyway.

TMz's interest is to make something even if there's nothing, and whoever got paid for the video would have that interest too.

Well, this is nice. Now, we might have another idiot problem.

Don't know all the details, but it's not a good look - out at the bar, arguing with someone on the street.

He needs to stay as far away from the bars as he possibly can.

Yep...to the point that every time there's a post in this thread we'll think, "uh-oh".

Maybe we are the team that will need to trade for Duke Johnson.

KH has nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by being at bars till closing.

LOL

Well .. The girls always look better at closing time ...

Dorsey said 'zero tolerance' when he signed a guy who was one step away from being spiritbro's next meathead. Lol

Zero tolerance can be bent anyhow you like, I suppose.

Well... they look better just before closing time. At real closing time, the lights come up.

Run.
Quick.

I would just like to point out that we don't know what time this happened. Everybody is assuming it was at closing time but the article doesn't say that. It may in fact have been after 2 am, or it could have been 1 am, midnight, 11 PM or even 10 PM. The article says they stayed till late in the evening, not early in the morning.

Sometimes, the lack of reading comprehension on here amazes me. In addition to the time not being verified, Hunt was not charged and the police don't even have a record of it. That tells me that no one called the police and the cops didn't even bother to call it in. There is one witness who isn't sure what he saw. The owner of the bar said it was no big deal. Yet, some are acting like he should be cut because of of the "zero tolerance" statement.

I'm happy nothing did happen. Clearly he needs to look into who he's hanging out with if he's getting into an argument that could alter his career at a bar. Probably should think about whether or not hanging out in bars makes much sense at all.


Either way, with the scrutiny this guy is under, i'd like to keep Duke Johnson for the full season. Call it PTSD from the Josh Gordon days, when we'd leave ourselves counting on Josh and end up screwed

I agree that he might want to find a different group of friends [I said that right after we signed him] and that he should stay out of bars.

A lot of people go to bars and many get into drunken confrontations w/other drunk folks. Trouble is that Hunt's case landed him in big trouble. Once something bad happens, it's time to make a change in your life style.

I was just commenting that I don't think this latest "incident" warranted cutting him.

OMG He got in a 'argument' w/ a friend!

BAN HIM FOR LIFE!!! LOL!

Same BS ya’all said when JG just went to grab a bite to eat at a popular night spot ...

This may turn out to be no biggie but it was still an inmature dumb ass decision that leads me to question how serious he really is ...

He made a BAD DECISION the only thing the time stamps changes is just HOW DUMB a decision he made ....

Just like with bake (not u) and obj ... some on this board think they can do no wrong ... shocker .. cause there perfect ..

Good luck Mr. Hunt ... your getting another chance ... don’t blow it!

Big deal or not, he has to understand that as a professional athlete, his actions are watched closely... with his history even more closely.

I don't think anyone should be walking on pins and needles everyday, but dang.. being at a club to me just doesn't make sense. Literally ANYTHING could happen. THere are some ignorant people out there who may want to start drama just because.

I'm of the opinion, nobody has the right to tell him not to go to a bar, as long as he's behaving himself;

caveat: unless he were on parole or something, I don't know the situation.

And nobody has the right to tell him to get new friends, (one of which may have acted in a bad light or instant lapse of judgement)

As long as people are behaving themselves, there is no right to tell someone to get different friends, who knows how long they've been friends,

And if the real culprit turns out to be Tmz, and some ambulance chasing camera holder
then there ain't nobody who would be safe if they were famous, not even people on this board's actions, if this is all they got

NOTHING HAPPENED! Nothing has been shown to have happened yet!

We also know that there is a video and the Police interviewing Hunt, I'm just guessing but he was not drunk which means he kept his discipline in the worst environment and did not get drunk. Then he restrained himself after being pushed to not fight back...on top of it, it was with a friend pushing him.

A lot to do about nothing. Yep, I would like the kid to stay home and play video games. But he's still very young and its his vacation time.

jmho

GC. I just had the thought. Glad it wasn't the starting QB, the back and forth on this board would be unreadable.

Moving on.

Yup ... the only alternative to staying home during vacation is going to clubs ... dang, i just wish there were other alternatives ... poor kid ... ...

1. You have to look at the environment he was brought up in. Clubbing is the thing to do. I don't think he will be going to midnight bowling or something of that nature. He ain't from the Burbs...life is different than you and I know and relate to.

What does whee u grew up have to do with not putting your hand back over the flame bro? ...

EXCUSES for a bad decision ....

Hopefully he learns from it and understand he should not be putting himself in that situation ... just look at what u wrote ... regardless of his intentions or weather he was drinking or not u have no clue what will happen ... so many things out of your control in that environment ...

I’m sure KJ and Freddie have told him that ...

PS. I never bowled much ... *L* ...

jc

I wonder if this is a case of trying to find a leak from inside the organization. The original rumors were much different (there was a victim who suffered injuries and was willing to press charges) than what actually came out (no victim, pushing with friends at the worst, no police record and owner of the bar basically said it was much ado about nothing).

Did someone in the front office spread around a false story about Hunt being in big trouble to see what would come out on social media or wherever rumors first broke?

Kinda makes you wish for the days when Mickey ( Mantle ) and Whitey ( Ford ) could sit in a bar in any American League City, get drunk, have an all-nighter, and no one cared.

You don't need to have "an excuse" for going out and having a few beers. And so far, nobody knows if that's not all that he did.

I thought this was a football board and not a meeting of the church choir.

Who said anything about needing an excuse about going out for a few beers .... i thought u weren’t device and didn’t twist words ... touché .... nice job ... ...

I could care less if he had ANY BEERS ... not the point ... i’ve made that perfectly clear ... its called NOT PUTTING YOURSELF IN HARMS WAY .... a concept i’m Guessing u learned later in life than some ... *L* ...

I could care less if u disagree with me ... hell i expect it .. *L* ... what i don’t expect for u to pull device like crap and put words in my mouth ...

Thats not u bro ...

to u going there in that post ...

I never considered going out to a bar or club a bad decision. And much like Hunt, if something broke out I never allowed myself to get involved to the point of being detained or arrested.

I actually consider that a good decision.

Mountain meet mole hill.

How many times u beat a women after drinking?

How many times u have a shot at making millions playing a game u love and having using up all your rope? ...

I’m done here bro .. carry on with your nonsense with someone that will take the bait ...

I said its NOT A BIG DEAL at this point but was a bad decision ... go tell device i said hi ...

FOCUS on the results only Pit ... just like u did with JG .... i choose to be the kettle this time ... *L* ...

Later bro ... enjoy your 4th ...

I'm just showing what you posted. First you said....

I brought up that you didn't need an excuse then you said that you never said that.

Sounds like you just don't want to discuss the fact that you said exactly what I claimed you said.

And I did focus on the results. He was neither detained nor arrested. From what is reported that the cop said, somebody pushed him.

It seems he handled himself very well. I know you don't like being challenged, but I don't see one thing wrong that he did.

There it is in a nutshell... He says he's a new man,..,. well, stuff like this makes me wonder.

Where would you go in Cleveland to get a "nice" meal that didn't serve alcohol?

Being in a "bar" really doesn't tell me a whole lot. If he's getting sloppy drunk, that's one thing. If he's just eating some wings and hanging out with some friends, it's another.

He's a "public figure." The cops (or anyone) stopping to talk to him isn't really surprising or indicative of anything untoward.

That shoddily-shot clip could be interpreted a lot of ways without more context. The officers appear rather relaxed. They could be talking about the upcoming season for all we know.

Here is what I see and know...its not that he went clubbing. From what I can gather he was not drunk probably having fun, dancing with a club soda - The police report would have recorded that he was drunk but he was not.

Its not that he went clubbing. The #1 negative and danger to this kid now is his Homies...the kids he grew up with they are the danger. Regardless if he went clubbing or meeting up in a casual setting with his friends. They are the danger to him and its a tough thing cause that is where and who he grew up with. He has to start hanging with teammates and get a new circle of friends. Until then he will always be in danger that is the reality of this all.

jmho

He was at a club dude ... don't tell me he didn't go clubbing when he was at a club ...

Bro .. when u have to reach this far that might be a sign to give it up ... you just told me he didn’t go clubbing when he was at a club ... ...

Barley House is a place that serves food and drinks. People go there to eat and drink. It's not the kind of "club" I used to go to back in the day.

By Diam’s definition TGIFriday’s, and Outback Steakhouse are clubs as they serve beers.

j/c:

Barley House is NOT a club. You don't go "clubbing" at that place.

Also, Barley House is NOT simply a restaurant like Buffalo Wild Wings where people drink a few with their wings.

It's in-between. It's a bar in the sense that people go there to get drunk and hang out late night moreso than to eat food with friends. It's in the heart of the Warehouse District that is a very social area in Downtown Cleveland. There are clubs around the area but it is not a club in the general sense people know one as.

That is all.

GC. I tell ya one thing.

Dorsey and Freddie could sure bring everyone, or individual together and use this as an example, of what kind of microscope players are under,

" See, He didn't even do anything, and look what kind of coverage this has Blown UP into!"
All the more reason to think twice where what kind of situation you end up in, when you go out.

Good point LONG, and there have been many of those examples this offseason... for Duke, for Baker, for OBJ, etc. It is a microscope.

As far as Hunt goes, it troubles me that "arm-chair QBs" (myself included) think they have some be-all, end-all solutions to everyone's problems. As if there is some finite, measurable cure for something we really know nothing about. We judge Hunt based on two incidents and a troubled youth.

Many people act as if, because there has been alcohol involved, dude should never have another drink, or some such nonsense. I think, in a sense, we're shell-shocked from the Josh Gordon battles. Most people who drink have done some pretty stupid things along their journeys - I know I have. I know I've been on the verge of having a "drinking problem" before as well. That does not mean I'm an alcoholic or that I should never have another drink. I means that I must understand my priorities and limitations. Not that hard (for most) to learn, understand, and steer clear of future indiscretions.

It's a good thing most of us mere mortals aren't judged under the same microscope.

The funny part is, nobody even knows if he had a drink.

Not funny at all since so many folks around here just like to jump to their own conclusions without any facts.

I meant odd funny, not ha ha funny. ie.... peculiar

I know bro. I just wanted to get in a little dig for the story tellers on the board. You know the ones who should start their posts with "Once upon a time"

I've known some pretty wild church choir members, lol.

I'll be interested to see if the team will have any response to this publicly. That's my "football" angle on the incident.

First there actually has to be an "incident".

TripAdvisor states Barley House more bar than restaurant, it also caters to "celb players" forcing regular folks to move or leave, great place...NOT. JMHO, any player in Hunt's situation shouldn't be out on Sat night at bar. ONE Long Island Ice Tea, made the typical way....The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), which conducts the annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), defines binge drinking as 5 or more alcoholic drinks for males or 4 or more alcoholic drinks for females on the same occasion (i.e., at the same time or within a couple of hours of each other) on at least 1 day in the past month. Makes you a binge drinker and alcoholic.... millions of alcoholics don't believe they have a drinking problem. Hope Hunt controls himself for good of himself and Browns......GO Browns!!!!

I don't want to make light of anyone's battles with their own demons - be they drugs or booze or whatever. Wish them all success in getting to grips with their issues, Hunt included. I still wish Gordon the best in getting his life together ...

That said - if you can all cast your mind back to when Crocodile Dundee uttered the immortal words "That's not a knife - THIS is a knife" ? The definition of binge drinking being 5 drinks on one occasion had me imagining this particular Aussie saying "That's not binge drinking" ....

https://www.cricketcountry.com/articles/david-boon-downs-52-cans-of-beer-on-a-single-flight-307274

One lesson from my youth; never, ever challenge (or accept a challenge from) an Aussie to a drinking contest.

Or a Canadian.

Good grief!

Does that include the warmups?

Lol, I hear ya.
I always thought the term binge-drinking was a three, four-day thing.

Kids these days don't know jack.

He's probably not an alcoholic in his eyes, this ain't the forum to discuss this, just don't like a Browns player who is supposedly reformed and on thin ice out at bar Saturday night...lot more useful things to do.....GO Browns!!!!

I’ll say it, this has to be a red flag.

Kareem is making his amends. By all accounts, he is following the path to redemption. The problem is, you are only as strong as your weakest boy, some cat at the bar.

52 cans of beer...... DAMN ROOKIES

Go read my post again...what kind of fool do you think I am??? Where on earth did I say he didn't go to a club.

Go back to Night classes and get that remedial reading 101 in...lol

I never said he didn't go clubbing... give me a little credit.

Yeah so I should give up posting cause you cant freaking read...smh

I’m watching this one closely, mainly because I got burned with my Gordon faith.

Everyone likes a redemption story

Or at least have friends ready to carry you back to the hotel/ship.

In Sydney, it might not be that bad. Brisbane or Perth were no joke, though.

I vaguely remember achieving a grudging respect.

One time in Norfolk, I was invited aboard the Ark Royal for dinner. 6 of the Brits surrendered their grog ration (3 warm British beer apiece) for the visiting Yank. I don't remember how I got back to my ship.

Just got this....no details yet.

Freddie said that he didn't think it was anything that would keep him out for any time.

Sounds like it’ll be a few days

KAREEM HUNT
RB, CLEVELAND BROWNS

Browns owner Jimmy “the thief” Haslam is working with the NFL in hopes of allowing Kareem Hunt to remain around the team during his eight-game suspension.

Hunt isn't set to return from his suspension until Week 10, but the Browns want to give Hunt support while he serves his punishment. If granted special clearance, that would make Hunt's debut with the Brown a slightly easier transition. For now, Hunt (groin) is working to get off the active/NFI list, so he can participate in team drills in training camp.

SOURCE: Nate Ulrich on Twitter
Jul 28, 2019, 1:42 PM ET

Kareem Hunt says finishing career with hometown team ‘would be something special’

BEREA — The Browns hold the contractual rights to Kareem Hunt beyond this season because the standout running back is eligible for restricted free agency in March.

Hunt made it clear Friday he’s fine with the situation. The Willoughby South High School graduate said he wants to remain with his hometown team anyway.

“Ain’t no place like home, and this is home for me, so I would love to be in my hometown playing for a long time, maybe finish my career,” Hunt said after the Browns (6-9) practiced for Sunday’s season finale against the Cincinnati Bengals (1-14). “That would be something special. You never know. I’m just excited to do whatever it takes. They’re going to get a ballplayer.”

General Manager John Dorsey threw Hunt a lifeline by signing him in February after the player had been caught on video shoving and kicking a woman in downtown Cleveland about a year earlier. When Dorsey was the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs, he picked Hunt in the third round of the 2017 draft out of the University of Toledo.

Hunt said he didn’t have knowledge of the Browns talking to his agent about a contract extension.

But Dorsey could simply tender Hunt as a restricted free agent in the offseason, giving the Browns the right of first refusal should another team make an offer.

Hunt has compiled 40 carries for 175 yards (4.4 average) and two touchdowns to go along with 34 catches for 253 yards and a touchdown in seven games this season.

The NFL suspended him for the first eight games because he violated its personal-conduct policy by engaging in physical altercations with the woman in downtown Cleveland and a man in Put-in-Bay in June 2018.

Hunt, 24, is confident the Browns would have won more games if he were available for a full season.

“I feel like I’m a difference maker on the field,” he said. “I feel like I could’ve helped win a couple more games.”

When Hunt returned from his eight-game ban, he proved to be a willing blocker at times for running back Nick Chubb, who leads the NFL with 1,453 rushing yards.

“I don’t have a problem [sharing the workload with Chubb]. I’m a team player,” Hunt said. “Whatever I can do help my team, whatever team I play for, I’m going to do it. You never know. Whenever my number is called, I have to be ready to play. I’m content with whatever, as long as we win.

“A whole season together [with Chubb], it’s going to be tough for other teams. As soon as we get it clicking, everybody will feed off it.”

As for Sunday, Hunt hopes Chubb secures the league’s rushing title. Hunt won it with 1,327 rushing yards as a Chiefs rookie.

“It’s hard to do,” Hunt said. “You’ve got to be consistent. You’ve got to come ready to play every game.

“Nick deserves it. He’s a workhorse type of guy, a good person, and I can’t be happier for him. He deserves the rushing title — no doubt — and I believe he’s going to get it.”

https://beaconjournal.com/sports/2019122...mething-special

The Looming Decision on Kareem Hunt

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-mav...-on-kareem-hunt

The Cleveland Browns have a number of major decisions to make in the upcoming offseason. One of the more interesting considerations they'll have involves running back Kareem Hunt, who will be a restricted free agent. The Browns could simply re-sign him to a new deal or put different tenders on him, which may signal an intent to at least listen to trade offers for him.

Hunt missed the first eight games of the season due to a suspension. He also had a sports hernia repaired in that time. In the seven games he's played for the Browns, he has accounted for 40 carries for 175 yards and a pair of touchdowns on the ground at 4.4 yards per carry. Hunt also caught 34 passes on 40 targets for 253 yards and another touchdown.

That accounts for 61.1 yards per game and over a 16 game season would amount to 978 yards at 5.7 yards per touch. When adding in the blocking Hunt offers, that would be a pretty solid season. It's also similar to the seasons Duke Johnson had for the Browns in 2016 and 2017, where he compiled 872 yards at 6.9 yards per touch and 1,041 yards at 6.6 yards per touch respectively.

Another year in this system or a change of coach could improve the output for Hunt. The Browns could be happy enough with what Hunt did this season to offer him a multiple year offer and try to keep him at below market value, seeing an opportunity to keep him and Chubb together at a reasonable cost. Incidentally, general manager John Dorsey made this exact move with Duke Johnson, signing him before their falling out and the resulting trade before this season.

Only the Browns know just how much they believe in Hunt's attempts to change his life since the video came out of him at a Cleveland hotel trying to attack a woman while being restrained. As talented as Hunt is, the team has to weigh that risk and any potential fallout from another incident, were it to occur, both in terms of what it would mean to lose the player on the field as well as the damage to the team.

More likely, the Browns will put a restricted tender on Hunt, which if signed, is a one-year deal before he would then become an unrestricted free agent next year. Depending on the level of the tender, if another team were to sign him, that would determine what draft pick the team would have to give up to sign him as compensation. There's also a monetary difference in the tender for the player depending on which is used. The higher the tender, the more money the player would receive. A first round tender would come with a contract worth between $4 and $5 million.

The Browns could place a first round, second round or original round tender on Hunt. Hunt was a third round pick, so if they went with an original round tender, that would be the compensation for another team to sign him. The Browns could also trade the restricted rights if they were so inclined. So if the team were to place a second round tender on Hunt, but a team was offering a third round pick in 2019 and a conditional pick the following year as an example, the Browns could accept that offer and trade the rights.

The level of tender the Browns place on Hunt could indicate the likelihood they are willing to move him. A first round tender would suggest the Browns have every intention of keeping him while a second or original round tender could indicate they are at least willing to entertain trading him.

If he does sign his tender, the Browns would keep him another year before he'd be an unrestricted free agent and potentially have a bigger market with far more control of his future. The Browns would either meet the open market demands or potentially get a compensatory draft pick down the road when he signs with a different team.

Another consideration is the blocking scheme the Browns employ. With Nick Chubb, the team's feature back, the Browns enjoy the vast majority of their success utilizing a zone blocking scheme, particularly running behind Joel Bitonio and J.C. Tretter. Chubb's combination of vision and patience enables him to find running lanes and create explosive plays. Chubb averages 5.1 yards per carry and has 11 explosive plays on the season.

Meanwhile, when they hand the ball to Hunt, it's largely behind gap blocking, which has a predetermined hole. The play puts more emphasis on the offensive line to be able to execute the play. There's nothing necessarily wrong with having backs excel utilizing two different blocking schemes, but it's more the offensive line has to practice and execute at a high level. Hunt is averaging 4.4 yards per carry and zero explosive plays on the season, so it's debatable if it's worth it. The Browns as currently constituted seem to simply execute the zone scheme more effectively.

A new coach, should they go that route, might be more inclined to be employ a heavier gap scheme, which could increase Hunt's value to the Browns. However, if they embrace the zone blocking scheme the Browns already execute at a high level with Chubb, they might be more inclined to add another zone runner to compliment their feature back, enabling a smoother transition from back to back over the course of a game or within drives. In addition to reducing the amount the offensive line has to focus on in practice, they would theoretically be better at those areas they can put more time and energy.

Ultimately, any decision is going to be governed through the potential value of Hunt. If teams are both comfortable with Hunt's off field and love the player he was with the Kansas City Chiefs, leading the league in rushing, they might be inclined to make a significant offer. There are a handful of teams where a game changing running back could completely change the complexion of their offense; teams like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, New Orleans Saints, Chicago Bears and Detroit Lions.

The Browns could certainly lose some production at the running back position by trading Hunt, but they may be able to address another area of concern on the team and create a more logical offense overall. As useful as Hunt has been, he's hardly been the game changing force he was expected to be, which unfortunately fits in with so much of this team this year. The coaching staff may bear a significant amount of the blame for that, but the front office still has to make a decision this offseason.

Man I hope they keep this RB duo for their careers.

Andrew Berry says team will tender restricted free agent RB Kareem Hunt. Won’t say which level of tender.

https://twitter.com/ScottPetrak/status/1232359541783908352

I would assume 2nd round

Why not 1st found? ... i don’t know how it works ... if we traded him he should be worth at least a 1st and more if he’s in no trouble after his latest meltdown ...

we can match any deal for Hunt, not so for Schobert they may put that first rounder on him?

IDK just guessing.

No running backs are traded for first round picks. Running backs have almost no value on the trade market, especially if they are going to need a new contract soon.

1. When was the last time a RB of Hunt’s caliber was traded? ...

2. We got a 3rd for duke ... never say never ...

I think Hunt’s issue is off the field obviously. Not sure what his value is, but I think our right to match or get a 2nd round pick is where it ends up

No one trades for running backs of Hunt's caliber because no one wants to pay for running backs. Here is a list of all the trades for running backs going back to 1996:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/transactions/running-back/trade/



BOB is out of picks to trade.

He’s gotta have a 1st in 2023 0r 4 ..

Times they are a changing ... the reason no RB’s of his quality aren’t traded are that teams don’t want to part with rb’s of that quality ... Over the last 5 years your theory may have come into play ... we don’t know ...

When’s the last time a team had 2 of the top 5 backs in the game? ... make it top 15 or even 20 if u want ... I’ll be waiting ...

I assume a 3rd. I don't think any team will offer up a 3rd AND a long term deal, particularly given his recent incident in which he admitted he's struggling and would fail a drug test.

Fred Taylor and MJD?

My guess is that if the Rams, Falcons, Cardinals, and Jets could get a mulligan on their running backs' contracts they would do so immediately. I will probably be able to add the Cowboys to that list after they lose key players at more important positions this off-season.



The first duo that comes to mind is LaDainian Tomlinson and Michael Turner. Mark Ingram and Alvin Kamara. Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew. Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams. Those are the ones off the top of my head.

(Also, I think Nick Chubb is a top five back but I'm taking Derrick Henry, Christian McCaffrey, Ezekiel Elliott, Alvin Kamara, Saquon Barkley, and Dalvin Cook over Hunt. And probably a few more guys.)

Hunt's value just isn't that great to other teams given his contract situation and his off the field history. He has more value to us because we already have him.

I wouldn’t disagree with anything u just said other than the other duo’s ... none of them had 2nd backs top 15 in terms of talent ... but that’s a rabbit hole we don’t need to explore ...

Also not sure I’d take Alvin over hunt ... but that would just be arguing over a smidge of a difference ...

It’ll be interesting to see what we end up giving him ...

My original question was aimed at finding out how the tags work ... i clearly missed the mark ... *L* ...

We can tag Hunt with a first, second, third, or original round tender. Each tender has a different salary attached to it. If Hunt signs the tender we have him for one more year at the attached salary. If another team signs Hunt we have several days to match the offer. If the offer is not matched then we get a pick depending on whatever tender we assigned to Hunt.

Any clue what the diff is rb pay per tender ...

How much it gonna cost us if we tender him at #1 and match compared to a 2nd rnd tender and 3rd ...

Lots goes into this ... u need to do math and i got 0 + 0 down as opposed to some ... *L* ..

1st RD tender = $4.667M
2nd RD tender = $3.278M
3rd RD tender = $2.144M

If a team matched the Browns on a 1st round tender (0% chance of this happening) run as fast you can to make the deal.

Matching the other team on contract terms depends on the offer the other team makes.

https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders/

So they don’t have to match the tender ... they can make a “poisin pill” offer?

4.66 for a year scares u from a talent like Hunt ... ...

I wonder how they came up with that # ... seems low to me ...

"Poison Pills" are no longer permitted in contracts.

I have no idea why you think "I'm scared" of $4.66M."

I'm not sure you understand how this all works.

The Browns will not put a first round tender and pay him $4.66M when there is a zero chance a team will give up a 1st for Hunt. Instead they can slap a 3rd round tender on him for $2.144M and still nobody will give up a 3rd for him and they can save $2.5M in cap space.

It’s almost like no one is giving up anything of value for a running back that they’d have to pay (and who also has off the field problems). . .

Why would no one give up a 3rd for hunt?

I have no clue how it works ... hence the questions ...

No poison pills allowed (not sure how that works or who decides what is or isn’t a poison pill) ... here’s my question ...

Can say the chiefs only have him sign the tender for say 2.144m for a 3rd rounder OR can they offer him what they want?

The team that signs him can sign him to whatever contract they agree to with the player. The player's current team then gets to decide if they want to match the contract. If they don't match then they get the corresponding pick.



1. He's a running back.
2. They would have to pay him.
3. He has major off the field issues.

The Browns have the right to match any offer.

If the Chiefs offer up a 3rd and the $2.144M the Browns could say, "nope, we'll keep him for the $2.144M."

I would prefer a second round tender. The money difference is not that that large, plus losing a second pick for someone who has an off field history like Hunt may be prohibitive to another team, where someone just might go for a 3rd round pick for a recent NFL rushing champion.

You'll get a bunch of solid reasons why nobody might trade for him, but at the same time, we managed to trade Trent Richardson for a 1st rounder.... so, there are no absolutes here.

Thanks for clearing it up ...

RB’s still get paid ... and i could care less about them .... i only care about us ...

4.66 million ... his contract will be for a heck of a lot more than that ... so if we get him for 1 year at that price ... STEAL IMO ... BIGTIME ...

Crap ... what is bark’s rookie contract per year? ... its gotta be more than that ...

I have no clue what rb’s make ... but 4.66 seems like peanuts for a talent like hunt ... and if someone does tender him .... we gots a 1st ...

I would understand a 2nd ... anything lower than that is just MORONIC!

Yeah, but we have the guy that made that Richardson trade locked up in Berea right now!

We can send him out on a mission as a mole

Hunt is first round talent, he has already proved it. This last episode has gone away already. The new CBA says weed won't be something you can get suspended for. For me it's a first rounder or nothing. I want to keep him, he is one of the best. Give him a full offseason with the team and 16 games and you will see his value.

not to mention that we've only seen of him in Cleveland what Freddie was able to figure out.... and he only got a half season to show anything.

In every meaningful aspect (average production per touch), last year was by far his worst as a pro. I hope we get a chance to see him with a competent head coach, but I won't hold my breath.

I bet we 2nd round him.

The most optimistic side of me sees Hunt as one of the big keys to our turn around next year. Stafanski should be up late night figuring out how to terrorize defenses using both Hunt and Chubb together. Hopefully we have not seen Hunt at his best yet.

Personal breakthrough needs to proceed a professional one for him though

What about Hunt the Hunted?

Bumped because I'm not sure what Hunt's status is. Are there impending decisions we're waiting on from legal or league entities?

No legal issues at all; he is completely in the clear and nothing to worry about.

Furthermore, with the new CBA, any issues with pot are no longer issues at all.

The only concern now is getting him re-signed.

Good news

Yes good news. Now Hunt needs to see that this coming year is the biggest year of his football life and crush it both personally and professionally. I am rooting for him.

Go Browns!

It pains me to say this, tread lightly. We have been down this road before, we must reserve our expectations.

Kareem and Nick exist in this hypothetical hyper functional backfield, looks nice on paper.

We all want him to do it, show me

Good news this is.

Hope we make better use of pounding the ball relentlessly. I would love to play BullyBall this year!

That's a great sounding theory. But when you have such strong weapons at WR and RB, not making the most out of both sides of the offense wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Expect a very balanced offense.

I agree. Last season we threw it 539 times, we ran it 393.

I'd like to see it balance out by being able to run more plays because we aren't punting as much and run it another 100 times and get it more to 50/50.

Heck maybe even run more. If you are running more than passing it means you have a lead in the 4th quarter and you are just grinding them in to the dirt.

I agree with the balanced offense approach. Of course that can vary from game to game depending on what the scoreboard looks like in the 4th quarter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jzo_CgHHXE&feature=share

With Chubb and Hunt as your RB's and a offensive scheme heavy on play action .... 100%

Thanks for sharing, great clip....and makes sense, get everyone involved...IF possible....GO Browns!!!

j/c:

The Browns do have two excellent RBs in Chubb and Hunt.

The Browns have two excellent WRs in Landry and OBJ.

The Browns have two TEs w/talent in Hooper and Njoku.

The Browns OL is far better at pass blocking than run blocking.

Should we really run it more than pass? The only reason I can think of is to keep the ball out of Baker's hands. Is that what we want to do?

For the record.

--Only one team in the entire NFL ran the ball more than they passed the ball. That team was the Ravens. https://www.footballdb.com/stats/play-selection.html?sort=passpct


I tried finding the league average on pass to run ratio, but got frustrated by a ton of articles that listed each team rather than the league average. Maybe someone like cfrs can post the numbers?

Here is an interesting read from Sharp Analytics, [the best in the business.] I have to post the link due to all the charts.

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/an...ned-the-corner/

I'd agree with everything in your quote but this. Conklin, Tretter and Bitonio are all excellent run blockers. They are all good pass blockers. We don't know what we have at LT and RG yet.

That being said, we won't need fantastic pass blocking this year.

Hmmmm..........

I was talking about last year, but I have to reconsider..........Conklin is a much better run blocker than pass blocker. So, I will retract that previous statement as we move forward. I'll keep it for last year.

No doubt. If you are playing from behind you are going to try to pass more and gain yards in chunks. On average..at least most of the time you are going to gain more yards per play when throwing the ball.

I am pretty excited thinking of the possibilities this O brings.

Heck, I even like the fullback. He is more than just a meathead blocker back there. He can actually run the ball. He is a runningback. That is all I ever wanted.

Like I have said, if blocking is all you want out of the position, just stick another guard back there.

Who was our Fridge? Dave Puluzi, Puzullo? I think he backed up Golic at NT.

I have seen the clip before. I like Leach.

Don't get me wrong. You still have to throw the rock. If you read my post, my thinking is get to run more plays because you aren't punting as much and once you hit the 4th quarter is when you balance out the numbers.

I can see us like the Redskins under Gibbs in the 80's. At halftime Riggins had 39 yards on the ground. By the end of the game he had 120+ yards. Riggins owned the 4th qtr. of most games.

OK, we have a 2 score lead, just feed John and let him run over people. I can see Chubb and Hunt doing similar things, be it a bit less running over people, but slipping away from people.

This is just me, but I believe that if we focus on the run or are a "run first" team if you will, that we are much more likely to see Year 1 Baker than Year 2 Baker.

I think by really focusing on the run, we'll be much more likely to be in control. All numbers aside, when you look back at Year 1 Baker's execution he was soooo much more comfortable and confident. Even when the play broke down many times he was able to make a successful play. He seemed to thrive on play action.

Even if we do go a more run first focused approach, my feeling is that there are still plenty of balls to get thrown around. If we're executing how we should and can, OBJ and Landry can still get their 100+ yrd, 1+ TD games in.

IF, IF, IF Baker gets his mechanics back under control, we might even see a more efficient QB with this.

I do think there is a hazard with a balanced approach, depending on how hard you are trying to achieve balance for the sake of balance. That hazard being the tendency to out smart yourself. Too often we've seen where we get on a roll, then for no apparent reason we switch it up (usually to less success) and kill our momentum. There's almost an anxiety that says in order to stay a step ahead we have to keep changing things up before the other team figures out how to defeat it.

First I find that thinking self defeating because you've actually helped your opponent by resolving their problem without making them do it. Second, I think there's something to be said for recognizing your strengths, and riding that horse as far as it will take you.

Now we're in a good position to be in. Chubb/Hunt is as good as any RB stable in the league, and OBJ/Landry are as good as any WR duo in the League.

Both are major strengths for us, but at this time I'd give the edge to our RB's only because OBJ/Landry have to rely on Baker, and he's still our unknown variable.

Don't have an expectation you seem to perceive. We were not tough enough on a regular basis to win. If it is in your offense, it should be able to hurt people, and by 'hurt' I mean force folks to adjust to it so you set up the next wrinkle. I expect all phases to push a D around, not just the run. We have wanted to establish the run, and then relied on the air game.

We are talking about the games as called by Huey and FK in hindsight. But the same shortcomings were repeated too often, and we talked about being tougher; that referenced mental and physical. I think strengths were squandered already, seemingly abandoned in second half decisions. The Gibbs reference in this thread was closer to what I would like to manage to achieve. No disagreement at all from me. But stepping up to new strengths shouldn't hobble anyone. I think we could be dangerous.

I more see it as an overall approach. You always have to consider your opponent. If you find a weakness in your opponent, you must exploit it. Whether that means you focus on the pass or the run to exploit your opponent.

And while I agree with Baker being an unknown variable at this juncture, I think most everyone agrees he looked much better in 2018 than in 2019.

In 2018 We rushed the ball 411 times and passed the ball 574 times. We averaged 26 rushes per game. I'm not trying to suggest that it is the approach we use this season, but I think some have the impression that we ran the ball more in 2018 than in 2019. That running the ball more in 2018 helped Baker's comfort level.

In 2019 we 393 times, passed the ball 539 times and rushed the ball an average of 25 times a game.

The ratio was very similar and Baker looked completely different in those two seasons.

The way I see it, Chubb/Hunt is/are the star of our offense. They are both proven and can get it done. Better blocking in front of them will allow them to do even better.

While OBJ/Landry/Hooper are also proven, the guy throwing them the ball isn't. Until Baker can prove he can start taking more and more of the offense on his shoulders, we should be run-heavy (in this day and age, that's around 50/50).

Great news IMO

Pretty surprising. This gives us a lot of leverage after the year is over and Nick Chubb is extension eligible.

Chubb’s contract extension is iffy now however

I hope not.

I think that depends on this year. If they both rush for 1,000+ and we become an unstoppable rushing-first team, we extend Chubb in a heartbeat. Also, it depends on how much Chubb is asking to receive.

Anyway, good extension for us and Hunt. Toledo!

This is outstanding news.

And, in no way whatsoever can you convince me that this affects Chubb's extension, at all. Chubb will get his, and there is no way this front office and staff want to deliberately give up on such a one-two punch in the backfield.

Not sure what I think about this.

1. A few years ago, Hunt was probably considered a top five running back in the NFL so getting an RB at this price certainly has value. Top RBs are getting around $15-$16 per I believe in recent deals. He is a 3 tool RB in that he can run catch and pass protect. Chubb might need more seasoning and experience in the latter two, but is probably a stronger runner, IMO. Hunt seems more versatile in the passing game as well. I wonder what his career snap count is lining up or motioning along the line?

2. Hunt has has some off field issues and don't know if that is over with.

3. Chubb is a FA at the end of next year, and on the current contract Hunt at the end of 2022. Not sure what this means at the moment in terms of any FO strategy but it is interesting.

j/c

Smart guys doing smart things.

I agree here that this probably causes little leverage. I think many expect Chubb to build on his numbers and warrant a large contract extension. So is the Hunt deal protection more than leverage if Chubb prices himself out of what the FO would be willing to pay? Especially knowing they would have Hunt for one year more if they didn't extend Chubb?

Kamara and Cook are the next top two RB extensions to take place. Again, I'll be interested to see what those end up being.

IMO I doubt that Chubb extension is in jeopardy.

The coaches love him. He is exactly what they want in a player on and off the field.

If I am Chubb, I don't like this.

Chubb is the heart and soul of our running game and they give Hunt this deal?

This deal is a spit in the face to Chubb.

Hogwash. Hunt's contract was up after this year, the new deal will overlap Chubb's new deal by a year. Great strategy by the FO with no implications that they don't want to do the same for Chubb.
Chubb will get his.

Hope your'e right.

I also wouldn't expect Chubb to take something like this personally. He's not a diva. He knows he'll get paid.

My guess is he uses it as fuel/motivation.

Chubb likes Hunt, as well.

Plus, Hunt's deal is really pretty reasonable for his talent and production..

This would seem to allow us to explore a trade scenario involving Hunt after this season rather than him being an FA. This seems like it could be a win win.

That would certainly be a possibility. I certainly do not see the Hunt signing as having any impact of extending or re-signing Chubb.

As far as how Chubb feels about the Hunt contract, in general players are happy to see other players get paid and I doubt Chubb considers this a threat to his value.

I don't see this as a negative for Chubb, Hunt or the team. This was a smart move to get an excellent player under contract at frankly less than market value. If anything it gives the team more certainty about the resources they'll have available for the other big signings that are coming up. So far my impression of the way Barry does business is pretty above board. I don't view this as necessarily designed to get leverage in future contract negotiations with Chubb. To me its a straight forward act to retain a talented player.

Realizing we haven't seen Stefanski's scheme as of today everyting that we do know says that being productive in the run game is going to be a key to winning. Kareem and Nick form a potent rushing combination to get that done.

Byner and Mack. no biggy.

Stylistically, I think it will be more like Jim Brown and Bobby Mitchell. But its all good.

I think having Hunt actually helps Chubb and the offense immensely .. change of pace, take some of the load, and a good WR back

I like your tandem better, but I also thought of Mike and Greg Pruitt. Guys older than either of us might mention Marion Motley and Dub Jones in the 50's. There's a long history of great RB tandems for the Browns.

+1, Good post Dave.

Thanks - Leroy Kelly and Ernie Green also deserve a mention.

8 guaranteed for a rushing champ in his prime is a steal..he and chubb are going to be together for quite awhile. In no way does this deal impact chubb, and I think Chubb is the kind of guy that would take a team friendly deal if he has a chance to win long term and by all accounts (theirs) they both really like each other

Greg Pruitt and Mike Pruitt works for me.

j/c:

I like Hunt and I am glad we are keeping him. I do wonder if this move was partially made to give the Browns some leverage in Chubb's upcoming contract talks.

Browns could use this as leverage, but I don't think they will.

Browns want to reward their stars. Chubb is our star, and the pure definition of what you want in a player and teammate.

And no way Chubb is upset with this. I'm pretty confident he's cheering on the move, and is happy for Hunt.

That tail clearly helped wag the dog, if you know what I mean.

I do. And to be clear, my original comment was not a shot against the FO. It actually seems like a smart move, in my opinion.

Good move! I like that we have him locked up for the next three years... gives flexibility... hopefully he and Chubb will be great backs for us for the next several years.

I love this move. Well done Dorsey for bringing him in. Well done current FO for getting him signed.

That's what I'm thinking. They can still extend Chubb, and I think they will. If the two contracts can't work, I see them trading Hunt for a nice chunk.

Both Hunt and Chubbs mooooves...
Myles Garrett attackin...
Baker Mayfield 'apassin...
Austin Seibert kickin...
On a Stefanski Super Bowl Teeeeeeam!



For us old school Brownies - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s6lkPh9-aQ

Just block out Model's ugly mug

From what little I have seen of camp and from Building the Browns.

Hunt looks ready. Really explosive.

Having Hunt and Chubb is a great luxury. Runners can get injured. Having two studs is fantastic.

Apparently Hunt has made good on the off field at least enough to earn this extension.

Good move and in no way does it impact extending Chubb when his deal is due.

I love having both guys.

The fact Hunt came out of the Corona-pocalypse shelter-in-place order unscathed (in terms of the off-field conduct-type stuff) is a victory in itself.

At first I thought this would inhibit or preclude a Chubb extension (which I still view as unlikely) but I don't think much has changed. $8 million is nothing.

I copied pasted below my post from other Hunt thread back in January. I hoping it’s the route we are going. Can’t have them both forever after we pay the others.

We have the money this year and a little more the year after before we have to resign Myles, Ward, Baker, and Chub. Sign hunt to 2-4 year deal with most in first 2 years. When we can’t afford him anymore, year or two, trade him. He will be a lightly used 26-27 pro bowl rb with little left on contract. You can get something for him. No sense in not keeping him around as long as we can financially.