The Browns are in a tough spot. Recently, Sanders (and formerly Gabriel) has not done anything to show the Browns that they don't need to address the QB position in the offseason and winning the last two games had bumped them down most likely past the two QBs that could easily be drafted by QB-needy teams in LV and NYJ. Assuming that both QB will be gone by #6 and there isn't a viable trade up situation, the Browns have a lot of thinking to do to solve this problem. I"m not sure what the solution is (whether signing a vet or maybe a lesser QB falls later in the first, like a Ty Simpson) but this could be another offseason where our draft spot isn't enough to find a potential Franchise QB.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Yeah, IMO the ownership is the biggest hurdle we have too
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
I know I'm a broken record but we won't win but sporadically until Haslam is out of the picture. Until then we're doomed to the Jimmy 2 step...
1. He doesn't know how to hire. He doesn't know how to evaluate talent. He believes that he does. He's also at his core impulsive. Impulsive and powerful only work well when there is also talent or real skill. When there isn't, the baseline will always be disaster. 2. When, by sheer luck, he does land on the right person for whatever job, again he doesn't have the judgement and discernment to recognize it and throws them over when the weather is bad. Which leads back to 1.
Look, I trace ALL of our recent losing to the DW fiasco. If Mayfield is still here, we're $230 million in cap richer either in leverage and/or players, and deeper from 3 more first round picks, this team is a playoff team the last 3. Period. The fact that Berry wasn't fired tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about who drove that trade.
Let's hope we get lucky with the next coach an pull a QB rabbit out of hat. But don't be surprised if when Haslam gets 80% of the way to a great team he gets smart and pulls another "daring" maneuver. He can't help himself.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
We’re not far away (from being competitive again) but Berry and his team needs to first draft the protecting framework before we thinking about drafting (or signing) a potential franchise quarterback.
If we draft a QB this year his rookie contract will end 2028 and at the beginning of 2029 we probably have to pay him $50m ish a season. From a salary cap standpoint it’s far more favorable to draft him when the team is almost complete and all the peaces are there. I know many of you think we should draft the QB first and then build the team around him but in this situation we’re at the moment the first approach I mentioned is way more sensible.
There’re several questions that need to be answered.
How many seasons has Garrett and Ward left in their tank? Can we find elite wide receivers on FA or is it better to draft them? What’s our identity when Stefanski is gone?
Do it right. See it as a three year project. Find a a head coach who’s strong enough, charismatic enough and experienced enough to be his own man. No more puppets who dance to the tune of the owner or general manager.
1st round QB’s are typically 4 year contracts with a 5th year club option.That would be 2029 with a club option for 2030.
Cam Ward’s contract goes to 2028 with a club option for 2029
That’s great. Then it’s even more favorable to draft him in 2027.
IMO it would be a huge mistake to use all our valuable draft picks this season without having a protecting oline and at least one very good WR who knows how to catch the ball in rough situations.
This’s is the time when Berry for once need to be cool and don’t trying to search for a Hollywood solution.
I’m not over optimistic with an owner without patience who will be in his ears but maybe a new head coach with more common sense next to him things will get better on the decision making department. When I hear Haslam talk about the “most important 120 days’ I get those “swing and miss” vibes again.
First he is known. Internally he has a great reputation.
The players on defense have had their best years under him. That includes Myles, Ward, Delpit, Carson, Bush, Graham, Collins, Campbell.
Myles said "it is an honor to play for him." Myles words carry weight.
He has vast experience including being a head coach. That experience counts because no matter the first time results. You know what to expect and will have an idea how to improve.
He is well connected and could put together a good staff.
The obvious question is what about the offense? Berry made it clear they are going to invest heavily in the offense.
Because Schwartz is a defensive guy. His offensive coordinator would be a key hire. I have heard KS say that Schwartz and him share similar views about football.
Rees was a KS disciple. He took the job in Cleveland to work for Kevin.
Hard to say if he would be a candidate? Berry said the head coach would make the staff decisions.
The main issue is quarterback. The new head coach will have to have a vision for what to do. A problem that has not had an answer.
That problem clouds the entire picture. Who wants the job when there is no quarterback? There is no answer in sight. Not on the team. Not in the draft. And for sure not in free agency.
Good luck to the next head coach because that is why coaches get fired.
I've heard Saleh's name a few different places. I've also heard the Chargers current DC
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
I know a new HC will probably want his own people but if I were being hired as the HC and took a look at the team, I would realize that my D is really good and probably only going to get better with some injured players coming back. Therefore, If I have no problem with JS I would seriously consider retaining him if he wants to stay, because I would not have to worry about that side of the ball and I could concentrate on the O an ST. Why mess with what's working?
That would be my strategy and I have previously posted that. If we had the #1or #2 pick then take a QB. We obviously don't so try and trade back for another #1 for 2027 and then concentrate on building the O-Line and WR group next draft and FA period.
Whoever, is hired has to believe in Shedeur. There are no viable options.
It will be the first question asked. "How do you feel about Shedeur?"
Because Shedeur is your quarterback next year.
They are not drafting a quarterback early. Most likely they will trade down and try desperately to get a first rounder in 2027.
An insurance policy if Shedeur falters.
Next year is sink or swim with Shedeur.
Yeah, I should've been more clear that that's my opinion. We still have another 1-2 mind-boggling owner decisions before we're back in the depths of hell like we were ~2018-2019.
I do think that the state of the roster will try to be pitched as a perk. Whoever comes in will essentially be able to build an offense with a LOT of resources (picks in the upcoming draft, and then picks and FA cash after that). So I don't think they need to be "sold" on SS, but rather just give him a chance for at least a year.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
I have no idea how many times this needs to be said but if you "build the framework first" you would be able to run block and pass block well first. Any mediocre QB with a good running game and good pass protection could win 7-9 games. That puts you well out of reach to select a franchise QB in the draft unless you have a GM that can identify a franchise QB every other QB needy team has overlooked. That's why the NFL teams that need a QB take the opportunity to draft one when the opportunity to draft one at the top of the draft presents itself.
Your proposal is we wait until we're drafting between 12-18 to draft a QB. That makes no sense at all.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Jador blows chunks. I know I am a hater and not one of Sanders' sycophants. If he is the QB for next year, seems like it will be another tank year in hopes of getting Arch the following year - which may be the plan.
Not sure what you all were watching but there is nothing about SS games that showed me he is FQB material. Slow processor, not all that accurate, ball security issues, throws wobbly ducks all over the field. 7-10 TD to INT ratio and I maintain that could have been a lot worse had some of the teams had better pass catching DBs. He had 2 good games against the worst teams in football (Raiders and Titans). He had an overall 18.8 QBR in games he started. That is absolutely pathetic.
I have no idea how many times this needs to be said but if you "build the framework first" you would be able to run block and pass block well first. Any mediocre QB with a good running game and good pass protection could win 7-9 games. That puts you well out of reach to select a franchise QB in the draft unless you have a GM that can identify a franchise QB every other QB needy team has overlooked. That's why the NFL teams that need a QB take the opportunity to draft one when the opportunity to draft one at the top of the draft presents itself.
Your proposal is we wait until we're drafting between 12-18 to draft a QB. That makes no sense at all.
The league changes too fast and is too competitive to operate on a fixed acquisition philosophy. You pretty much have to operate as an opportunist. We were drafting 3rd with 1 QB needy team in front of us. But we couldn't tank (maybe why Ski is gone?) and now we're drafting 6th with 3 QB needy teams in front of us. Which puts us out of reach for one of the top 2 guys and there's rarely more than 2 good QBs in a draft. Years with 3 are banner years and I don't think anyone thinks this is that year. I think there's a good deal of confidence in Mendoza and not much consensus about anyone else. So.... it could be a 1 QB draft. Or a zero. Or, the 2nd starting QB could be somewhere else, later. I can't say and I don't think anyone else here can either.
Point is, those last 2 wins pretty much took us out of the top QB picks IMO. I stopped sweating the QB pick when we beat Pitt. Mendoza is gone for us, I'd bet my house on that. And probably the #2 & maybe #3 QBs, whoever they may be. Unfortunately I think the option is by default the one he's advocating for; load up on other positions and maybe look for another late round sleeper. I keep hearing people love Mateer...? Don't know much. So unless we LOVE the #2 or #3 guy and want to move up, I would drop back again, try to secure another #1 for next year and try try again. But I think the high QB ship sailed for us this year.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
Funny how this poster bashed the team at every chance he could this past year and now in a 24 hour period its....
Quote
We’re not far away....
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
He must have hopped on one of Elon's rockets to get there that fast!
With one gone I can at least see the light in the tunnel. We have some good players and with a couple of successful drafts/signings we can be competitive in two three seasons. It’s called careful optimism.
I don’t agree with the notion that we should first draft a QB before drafting/signing the protecting framework. If so we have to do a KCC/Mahomes and bench him the first season, otherwise we will see another Gabriel/Sanders scenario.
The Browns record of drafting/signing/keeping (good) quarterbacks is actually insanely bad so maybe it’s time to try something new.
Funny how this poster bashed the team at every chance he could this past year and now in a 24 hour period its....
Quote
We’re not far away....
To add…
He bashed the team/wanted Kevin fired after every loss in our last playoff year. Then after we lost our playoff game against the Texans said the year was a failure because we didn’t make the SB, lol.
Funny how this poster bashed the team at every chance he could this past year and now in a 24 hour period its....
Quote
We’re not far away....
To add…
He bashed the team/wanted Kevin fired after every loss in our last playoff year. Then after we lost our playoff game against the Texans said the year was a failure because we didn’t make the SB, lol.
I didn’t say it was a failure because we didn’t go to the SB. That’s a lie but why let the truth come in your way when telling a good story.
You in the boys club who all supported the idea of getting Watson, who thought Stefanski was a mythical quarterback whisperer got what you deserved, a couple of more years of misery. From the first second you were all wrong until the bitter end. Right now some of you try to rewrite your own history but I totally understand why. Some of it is actually comical gold.
I lost faith in Stefanski already in 2021. Go back and see my post from that time. The game against the Steelers.
You could literally see with your own eyes that he was too far out on deep water at that time. The result the Browns has produced after that has proved me 100% right. Including our playoff loss in 2023. Having only one decent season in four years is a huge failure, especially with the players he got to his disposal.
We had a really good roster in 2020 and many of the better players where still with us in 2023 but the loss against the Texans showed us that that lack of recruiting new talents and the head coach inability to get the best out of his offense exposed our shortcomings. Joe Flacco was the difference maker late that regular season, not the head coach.
Bad decision making! From all in executive positions. That’s the answer you all searching for.
Funny how this poster bashed the team at every chance he could this past year and now in a 24 hour period its....
Quote
We’re not far away....
To add…
He bashed the team/wanted Kevin fired after every loss in our last playoff year. Then after we lost our playoff game against the Texans said the year was a failure because we didn’t make the SB, lol.
I didn’t say it was a failure because we didn’t go to the SB. That’s a lie but why let the truth come in your way when telling a good story.
You in the boys club who all supported the idea of getting Watson, who thought Stefanski was a mythical quarterback whisperer got what you deserved, a couple of more years of misery. From the first second you were all wrong until the bitter end. Right now some of you try to rewrite your own history but I totally understand why. Some of it is actually comical gold.
I lost faith in Stefanski already in 2021. Go back and see my post from that time. The game against the Steelers.
You could literally see with your own eyes that he was too far out on deep water at that time. The result the Browns has produced after that has proved me 100% right. Including our playoff loss in 2023. Having only one decent season in four years is a huge failure, especially with the players he got to his disposal.
We had a really good roster in 2020 and many of the better players where still with us in 2023 but the loss against the Texans showed us that that lack of recruiting new talents and the head coach inability to get the best out of his offense exposed our shortcomings. Joe Flacco was the difference maker late that regular season, not the head coach.
Bad decision making! From all in executive positions. That’s the answer you all searching for.
Make sure you let us know which teams are calling you to interview for a coaching position, or as a GM
The Browns are still at square one on the board game. Who is the quarterback?
We are not in a position to draft a guy. Solutions to quarterback are not in free agency or trades. Darnold was there and we didn't have the foresight or money to get him.
If Shedeur does not clean up his game then what? Gabriel? Watson? Zappe?
Are those options better than the magic four we went into camp with last season?
2026 will be another "we love our loyal fans and we are working hard to ensure we provide them with a consistent winner."
I don't actually disagree with you in the Browns situation at the current time. What choice do they have left now other than that? Maybe they have a rabbit up their hat that I'm unaware of but this is more for those who claimed the Browns should do it that way when we were still in the position it looked like they would be drafting higher.
My comment was meant for those who use that as a general philosophy. Sorry for the confusion.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I certainly hope you recuperate from the way you are feeling now. Look, I get it. I'm not that super optimistic poster a lot of the time. We have bumped heads in the past because I felt your optimism was over the top and unrealistic. But it takes all kinds to make a world. Eotab filled that role for many, many years. But he is now gone much to the sadness of many of us. It appeared you were filling the role that was gone after his parting.
I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to feel or how to post. We all have to make that choice for ourselves and act accordingly. I think we agree that if Stefanski had to go, Barry should have went with him.
But I will say that if you never get back to your old ways when optimism ruled supreme, it's a dimension that will be sorely missed on this board. Hopefully time will help change that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
He acted insulted when asked about dysfunction within.
How else can it be looked at? His record over fourteen years is 7- 123 -1.
He just fires a head coach who in 24 hours is considered the top candidate (outside of Harbaugh) around the league.
Berry and Haslam were the two who made the Watson deal. Period. One said let's get this guy and the other said I will guarantee it.
They knew going into this year that the team had no chance. They know that they have no chance in 2026. Berry said as much in his press conference. "we knew we could not address the whole roster in one year."
How did we get here? Haslam's ego is such that he is incapable of accepting accountability.
We are looking at a 5th round 2025 rookie with seven games under belt to lead a franchise. His backup is either Gabriel or Watson.
And we are now supposed to be assured that everyone is working hard to make the Browns a consistent winner.
I am pissed off and running out of time waiting for this team to accomplish something.
Final 2025 NFL ranks in "Supporting Cast Rating" which is the average team PFF grades in rushing, receiving, pass blocking and run blocking (everything except passing):
25% of NFL HC positions are open as of now. The Browns current situation would mean they are not nearly the most attractive destination by any means. Considering those factors I would say people need to keep their expectations low as to what "the best possible outcome" may be.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I believe we share those same feelings. I was just trying to interject a little perspective. I probably don't keep up with this as closely as some do. I mean I have looked at the overall big picture but for me it really is inconsequential until a HC has been hired.
I knew there were quite a few HC jobs open. But when I saw the total was eight of them and that's 25% of all NFL teams, and how some of those teams already have their QB's in place with plenty of cap room, it really hit home just how bad of a predicament the Browns find themselves in.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The seeming popularity of the Rees as OC or HC suggestions perplex me.
I mean we have seen it time and time again where they play calling has been slammed consistently on this very board.
I certainly understand the argument that It's more about executing the plays called than the actual plays being called. I have made that same argument myself many times. I've also made the argument that doing exactly what your opponent is expecting you to do is not the smart approach to fourth down calls.
What the issue boils down to for me is this. When it's your OC making those play calls, when it's he who is in charge of the O, why is it he keeps calling plays this O is in no way ready for or equipped to execute? The O said of the ball was obviously the weak link here. And Rees had his hands involved in all of it. I chalk it up to not having enough talent on the roster period. But if Stefanski is being blamed for the O why in the world would people not lump Rees in with that?
I know people can say, "Yeah but t was Stefanski's system and plays". But his system isn't overly complicated and the plays for the most part aren't complicated either. Why would anyone think a more complicated O in a more complicated system would be a benefit? That's directed just at people who blame the whole ball of wax on Stefanski and are trying to give Rees a free pass..
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I heard Mary K say behind the scenes Rees is very popular. And that the Browns interviewing him is serious.
He took the OC job to work with KS. He has said on many occasions KS is a great coach.
In my mind both Berry and Haslam know the failure was not on KS. Haslam looked around at the other NFL owners. He saw guys getting fired with better records.
He decided how can I keep KS when others are making changes? He did it for the optics.
Haslam is not a strategic thinker as an owner. He is a rich guy who made a lot of money in a business his father started.
He bought the team as an investment. He wants to win and is willing to spend. So is the Mets owner.
He has no idea how to run a team and has learned little in fourteen years.
25% of NFL HC positions are open as of now. The Browns current situation would mean they are not nearly the most attractive destination by any means. Considering those factors I would say people need to keep their expectations low as to what "the best possible outcome" may be.
I agree with Pitt, I would not get high hopes of landing one of the top coaching candidates.
Promoting from within might be the best way for Haslam to go. OC Tommy Rees might be a top choice with DC Jim Schwartz being a possibility.
When the new stadium is complete and the offense is rebuilt via the draft, the Browns HC position will be much more attractive if Rees or Schwartz don't work out.
I think it’s just fine to have high hopes but as longtime Browns fans I think that’s ALWAYS tempered with that reality that this is the Cleveland Browns we’re talking about here… We’re pretty well based in that reality.
I heard Mary K say behind the scenes Rees is very popular. And that the Browns interviewing him is serious.
He took the OC job to work with KS. He has said on many occasions KS is a great coach.
In my mind both Berry and Haslam know the failure was not on KS. Haslam looked around at the other NFL owners. He saw guys getting fired with better records.
He decided how can I keep KS when others are making changes? He did it for the optics.
Haslam is not a strategic thinker as an owner. He is a rich guy who made a lot of money in a business his father started.
He bought the team as an investment. He wants to win and is willing to spend. So is the Mets owner.
He has no idea how to run a team and has learned little in fourteen years.
Most established coaches with 8 wins over 2 seasons lose their jobs. Heck, most coaches with 3 win seasons manage to lost their jobs. Yje Browns were excedingly patient with Stefanski. I know there were personnel challenges, but he lost whatever ability he had to make a winner out of little. He has a Super Bowl level defense, and could not win. Offensive challenges aside, theh defense managed to add in UDFA and low end FA ..... and make an elite unit. Stefanski couldn't even make a below average unit out of his. He had numerous problems, an inabilty to eliminate the mental mistakes being the most galling. He was done here. He just seemed to lose whatever he had that made him at al special, It was time for him to go.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The seeming popularity of the Rees as OC or HC suggestions perplex me.
I mean we have seen it time and time again where they play calling has been slammed consistently on this very board.
I certainly understand the argument that It's more about executing the plays called than the actual plays being called. I have made that same argument myself many times. I've also made the argument that doing exactly what your opponent is expecting you to do is not the smart approach to fourth down calls.
What the issue boils down to for me is this. When it's your OC making those play calls, when it's he who is in charge of the O, why is it he keeps calling plays this O is in no way ready for or equipped to execute? The O said of the ball was obviously the weak link here. And Rees had his hands involved in all of it. I chalk it up to not having enough talent on the roster period. But if Stefanski is being blamed for the O why in the world would people not lump Rees in with that?
I know people can say, "Yeah but t was Stefanski's system and plays". But his system isn't overly complicated and the plays for the most part aren't complicated either. Why would anyone think a more complicated O in a more complicated system would be a benefit? That's directed just at people who blame the whole ball of wax on Stefanski and are trying to give Rees a free pass..
Just a reply to your post Pit. I agree about the executing the plays.
I said this after the last game. I can't speak for previous years of Kevin's playcalling. Watching Kevin and Rees calling plays were different, I guess the word would be structure. Kevin didn't use much motion at all in the beginning of the year. By the end of the year, we were using it regularly to uncover man to man or zones. Now, the one thing I do want to bring up as a possbililty, we did have a lot of young players. Maybe they didn't want to overload them. I don't know, just trying to give a possibility of what could've been the reason for it.
The main thing was the formations we used. Kevin really didn't build off of looks. He would run a play with a look and it was an end around with Corley. Then you wouldn't see that look the rest of the game. This happened quite a bit. When Rees was calling, he would run that play. Then throughout the game, he would run that formation with Corley in motion and run play action or a dive/off tackle with Judkins. You could see in the end zone view of the replays the LBs either sliding to the side of the motion or after snap take one step that direction then have to adjust back to the other side.
I liked Kevin. I wanted him to stay for another year.
I see the comments about Kevin is gone, Berry should be gone.
A couple possibilities as to why Berry is still here.
Ownership could look at this team and see the progress it made with drafting of players. They might look at it and say we had one of the top defenses in the league. We have some really good parts on offense with these rookies. We need a pieces on offense. If we clean house with our GM and HC, they might just blow this all up and start over again. We just need a new voice leading this team and try to keep our DC and Rees.
I liked KS too and thought he should get another year from just what I've seen but I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Maybe management felt he wasn't holding players and other coaches more accountable. We were ranked dead last in offensive support. How can you win with that. Some people want to blame AB for that, but you can't do that without giving him credit for the D, our last draft, some trades he made and some solid FA signings. AB is on the right track and I think he deserves another year for the draft and FA signings. JMO
Giving AB credit for the defensive talent would mean if you are being fair then you would also have to credit him with the terrible offensive talent. Life is a two way street.
When Stefanksi first arrived here he went 11-5 with the offensive talent and roster John Dorsey had assembled. He even managed to lead the team to the playoffs after they pulled Flacco off the couch. That evolved into having no real QB, no real OL and no real WR's. That was all under Berry's watch. And Stefanski took the fall for it all. I'm not bitter or angry about it. But it is what it is and everything else is nothing but excuses.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
IMO the Browns will interview the OC's from the Rams and 49ers.
Mike LeFluer and Klay Kubiak.
Both guys have deep NFL roots.
Both run a variation of the WCO.
The scheme is based upon timing.
It uses inside and outside zone run concepts.
It utilizes play action with motion and deception.
Sounds familiar because it is the preferred scheme of KS.
The concepts go back to Bill Walsh.
Do the Browns have the quarterback to run the scheme? Shedeur did not come from that offense. He has lots to learn. I do not know if he can or cannot play that style.
Ty Simpson has entered the draft. I have not seen a ton of him. From what I have seen he looks like he might be able to run that scheme. He is a decisive passer and accurate.
One thing that I just kinda realized is that back when we did the Watson trade, we had one of if not the worst defenses in the league. We did the trade for Watson and started dumping what little draft ammo we had into the defense. It took him a while, but Berry constructed an elite offense over the time period that was supposed to see Watson come in and solidify the offense.
The offense has obviously fallen off (to put it mildly), but in terms of everyone's part that they're playing, maybe it was seen as Berry holding up his end of the bargain (building the D) while Stefanski floundered with his offense.
I'm just spitballing.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
I think it was a little of both. I think we had a number of players that just weren't getting it done (compare Schobert to JOK or Schwesinger today) and our Dline was WEAK, but we also had players that we just weren't utilizing (like putting Ward and co. in zone all the time).
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Two sources on interested teams said their belief is Harbaugh's top choices among the vacant jobs are the New York Giants and Atlanta Falcons in some order. Those sources added the Tennessee Titans are in third place, while a third, different source said there is real and mutual interest between Harbaugh and the Cleveland Browns.
Was it berry bringing in players or was it ditching the incompetent defensive coordiator and bringing in Schwartz?
Originally Posted by oobernoober
I think it was a little of both. I think we had a number of players that just weren't getting it done (compare Schobert to JOK or Schwesinger today) and our Dline was WEAK, but we also had players that we just weren't utilizing (like putting Ward and co. in zone all the time).
Like Greg Williams playing Jabrill Peppers 30 yards back like a center fielder
I'm disgusted with the DW saga as much as the next Browns fan but if he looks good and gives us the best chance to win then I feel we should play him. We're paying him anyway. If we fix the OL and get a solid #1 WR with some decent QB play we can turn this around for next season. However, the right moves and decisions have to be made. Long way to go.
I'm disgusted with the DW saga as much as the next Browns fan but if he looks good and gives us the best chance to win then I feel we should play him. We're paying him anyway. If we fix the OL and get a solid #1 WR with some decent QB play we can turn this around for next season. However, the right moves and decisions have to be made. Long way to go.
I think DW playing well again is pretty much just wishful thinking, but sometimes that's all we got here in Browns Town. Regardless, we shall see...or maybe not....
I'm disgusted with the DW saga as much as the next Browns fan but if he looks good and gives us the best chance to win then I feel we should play him. We're paying him anyway. If we fix the OL and get a solid #1 WR with some decent QB play we can turn this around for next season. However, the right moves and decisions have to be made. Long way to go.
I think DW playing well again is pretty much just wishful thinking, but sometimes that's all we got here in Browns Town. Regardless, we shall see...or maybe not....
You bought her the biggest diamond ring you could find. She cheated on you for four straight years.
Telling her you still want to be together is the epitome of stupid. You know, she knows, the entire world and history of the universe knows - it will never work out.
Two sources on interested teams said their belief is Harbaugh's top choices among the vacant jobs are the New York Giants and Atlanta Falcons in some order. Those sources added the Tennessee Titans are in third place, while a third, different source said there is real and mutual interest between Harbaugh and the Cleveland Browns.
He would be saddled with a $230 million dollar lump of coal.... Two second year QB's neither of which set the world on Fire, An offensive line that couldn't stay healthy and is getting older. (joel Bitonio may retire) and let's not forget the owner that doesn't understand that the team is truly dysfunctional. But on the good side, he would get a great Defense... But would the DC stay on? (did I hear that he's agreed to do that?)
Yeah, they'll pay him the $20 million per year... Yeah, they'll put up the $10 million for staff but I'm not sure they'd give him Full Control...... And if they did, when has he ever had that before?
And then there is the question of why would we want him for all of that cost? I mean he's had one of the best QB's, Defenses, and overall Offenses in the league and couldn't get it done since getting him. What makes anyone think he can get Sanders or Gabriel to be the next big thing. And let's face it, Berry hasn't found a top QB in 6 years. Three of which he didn't have a 1st round Pick.
Look I'm not really knocking Harbaugh, I'd be happy if we got him... Just not sure he's the right guy, but he is a pretty safe bet.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Two sources on interested teams said their belief is Harbaugh's top choices among the vacant jobs are the New York Giants and Atlanta Falcons in some order. Those sources added the Tennessee Titans are in third place, while a third, different source said there is real and mutual interest between Harbaugh and the Cleveland Browns.
He would be saddled with a $230 million dollar lump of coal.... Two second year QB's neither of which set the world on Fire, An offensive line that couldn't stay healthy and is getting older. (joel Bitonio may retire) and let's not forget the owner that doesn't understand that the team is truly dysfunctional. But on the good side, he would get a great Defense... But would the DC stay on? (did I hear that he's agreed to do that?)
Yeah, they'll pay him the $20 million per year... Yeah, they'll put up the $10 million for staff but I'm not sure they'd give him Full Control...... And if they did, when has he ever had that before?
And then there is the question of why would we want him for all of that cost? I mean he's had one of the best QB's, Defenses, and overall Offenses in the league and couldn't get it done since getting him. What makes anyone think he can get Sanders or Gabriel to be the next big thing. And let's face it, Berry hasn't found a top QB in 6 years. Three of which he didn't have a 1st round Pick.
Look I'm not really knocking Harbaugh, I'd be happy if we got him... Just not sure he's the right guy, but he is a pretty safe bet.
You're making too much sense.
The speculation is insane at best. There is no way this dude would tarnish his legacy for a freakshow and a fist-full of dollars. He's earned 120M as a HC alone. I'd estimate that it would take about 30M per year to get him to take this plunge.
I'm just curious. I know you mentioned the possibility of Harbaugh taking watson into account when making his decision. But doesn't watson's contract end after the 2026 season?
When you look at both the Titans and the Giants you are looking at teams who have first round QB draft picks in place who have years on their contracts. I think it would be a huge gamble for Harbaugh to choose a team he thinks may have the answer at QB on a one year rental when other options offer more stability at the QB position in terms of the timeline.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Before I say anything I'll mention that if I had to put money on a bet then I'd lean the way you just laid out.
That said, I'm not sure coaches motivations are so cut and dry. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Harbaugh could see past the Browns history and see an opportunity to set himself apart (succeed where others have failed). Haslam has a history of meddling, but also has a history of doing whatever he can to help construct a roster. Remember, what we did with Watson (back when he was still considered an elite QB) was unprecedented and something few owners could manage.
I'll also repeat something I said before... he's a Harbaugh. I'd find it hard to believe he hasn't thought about potentially sticking it each year to the team that cut him loose.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Some coaches and players are motivated by their legacy. Some are motivated by revenge. Any team with a dismal record at the bottom of their division that you rebuild into a perennial winner and super bowl champ would set you apart. Overlooking better opportunities to accomplish that strictly for the sake of vengeance would show a lack of common sense.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Harbaugh will look at every factor. He knows the NFL inside and out.
Every team looking for a head coach including the Ravens are far from perfect.
We have a great defense with near every player under contract. That counts.
However, offensively we need a make over.
The other teams? Dart and the Giants won 4 games? Titans and Ward won three? The Raider's have the first pick. They need it. Really bad team and he would have to play his brother twice a year. The Falcons are ok but does he like Penix?
Money? Sure, but he has more money than he will ever need.
He wants to win and as soon as possible.
Watson? Yes his contract ends. He might see him as a now guy or a bridge. He will consider our 2026 draft pick slots. Maybe he likes Ty Simpson a guy we could get.
Hell he will do what makes the most sense to him. Haslam might grant him his every wish.
We have a new stadium being built? I am sure he is looking at this as his last NFL job.
He will be offered the jobs he interviews for.
When I saw the list of guys we are looking at. I think desperation.
If I were Haslam I would consider offering part ownership. I am serious. I would make him president and turn it over to him.
My biggest concern with Harbaugh is that he is very similar to Stefanski in one big way ....... that he refused to get rid of ineffective coordinators.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
You point out how few games Dart and Ward won yet overlooked their progress and their potential as QB's.
And allow me to point something else out to you. I have pointed out why most NFL teams address the QB position first and then build the team around their QB's afterwords. This what both the Titans and Giants are doing. You yourself said you would never compete for a championship without a top tier QB. So it makes sense that rookie QB's Would have a losing record since the process of building the team around them is in the beginning stage.
So wouldn't it stand to reason that in their rookie years, before the team is built around them, that the win totals would be low?
That's something Harbaugh may see that we don't have and can't offer. A legitimate franchise QB prospect for him to build around.
It seems odd that you yourself claimed it isn't reasonable to think Harbaugh would seriously consider being HC of the Browns and now seem to doing quite the opposite.
Offer him part ownership? I understand that while you are somewhat older than I am, not by that much. I understand that we are both desperate for the Browns to win a Super Bowl before our days on this earth are done. But I also understand that the Haslam's have no motivation to give up part ownership to land a HC.
If I were in their shoes instead of in mine neither would I.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Before I say anything I'll mention that if I had to put money on a bet then I'd lean the way you just laid out.
That said, I'm not sure coaches motivations are so cut and dry. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Harbaugh could see past the Browns history and see an opportunity to set himself apart (succeed where others have failed). Haslam has a history of meddling, but also has a history of doing whatever he can to help construct a roster. Remember, what we did with Watson (back when he was still considered an elite QB) was unprecedented and something few owners could manage.
I'll also repeat something I said before... he's a Harbaugh. I'd find it hard to believe he hasn't thought about potentially sticking it each year to the team that cut him loose.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Some coaches and players are motivated by their legacy. Some are motivated by revenge. Any team with a dismal record at the bottom of their division that you rebuild into a perennial winner and super bowl champ would set you apart. Overlooking better opportunities to accomplish that strictly for the sake of vengeance would show a lack of common sense.
You both make a lot of sense. I don't think revenge and setting himself apart would feed enough ego to look beyond the downside though.
Perennial loser that seems to have a curse, owner that meddles, alienate the very fans that hold you the highest by joining a division rival. If you fail you go from elite to the brunt of jokes. Yes, everyone will still recognize your body of work; but still - the brunt of jokes.
This simply isn't appealing enough. If we were locked and loaded and this was a draft class like 2018? Maybe. But there is no QB on this team and none that jumps off the page (that you can feasibly draft) in the draft. The owner is already saying the DC stays. No matter how you slice it, we are probably the least attractive destination. And while we may offer a stab at immortality and revenge, the downside is just way too down.
I’d start fresh…new city, new team and new conference. I don’t want to go into my last teams place once a year. Too much unnecessary added stress. Willing to bet that’s what he does.
I agree. Haven't watched a lot of Ward but I suspect the star may fall a good deal for Dart. I live with all Giant's fans and watched more Giants than Browns this year. He's got a lot to like but he also seems like he gets rattled, forced into errors a lot. He's more than a little over confident and tries to force things. He's fun to watch and the team really responds to him but he's not hard to figure out.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
Living in the Nashville area I get to see a lot of coverage on Ward. While he is on a very bad team much like the Browns are, you can see how he has developed and improved over the course of the season. That's no actual guarantee of what he will become but all of the signs are currently pointing in the right direction.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
If Matt Lefluer leaves GB. The Browns should hire him.
So we can have 4th Quarter meltdowns?
Falcons (SB LI) : 28-3; lost 28-31 Green Bay: 24-6; lost 27-31 ... on the heels of a 5 game losing streak to close out the season, all five games featured the Packers collapsing late in the game after leading.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
LeFluer also worked with Sean McVay with the Rams.
During his time in Washington he was on a staff that included McVay, Vrabel, McDaniel, and Raheem Morris.
During his time at GB Aaron Rodgers was named NFL MVP for the second consecutive year and fourth time overall.[50] Rodgers noted LaFleur's contributions to his winning MVP in 2 of LaFleur's 3 seasons as head coach.
I'd take LeFleur and hopes he brings Malik Willis along for the ride as well. Kid looked really good in relief of Love this year.
Kick Jador to the curb. Make Willis #1, Dillon as backup. Trade back in the draft. Draft 2 OL and 2 WRs in 1st and 2nd round. O would be back in business.
The Ravens have wrapped up another head coaching interview.
The team announced the completion of their meeting with Browns defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz on Wednesday. It’s the ninth interview they have conducted since firing John Harbaugh last week and several more are expected to take place before they move to another round of meetings.
Schwartz, who was a Ravens assistant from 1996-1998, has also interviewed for the vacancy in Cleveland. He went 29-51 over five seasons as the Lions’ head coach.
Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti said at a Tuesday press conference that he’s “very intrigued” by coaches like Schwartz who were hot coaching candidates and did not find great success in their first stops as a head coach. Brian Flores, Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Nagy, Vance Joseph, and Schwartz’s former boss in Cleveland Kevin Stefanski are others who fall into that category.
So, with him off the table, and Tomlin not really a factor with his situation.
Back to realistic choices.
I cannot see hiring a defensive guy unless they promote Schwartz. He is the only guy who makes sense from that side of the ball.
Given all the changes coming to the offense IMO they will hire an offensive guy. Dan Pitcher is difficult to judge because the offense went downhill when Burrow was hurt.
When he was healthy in 2024 they cooked. They should with their talent on offense.
I don't think Monken will be a contender.
Udinski and Scheelhaase are very young. Scheelhaase is passing game coordinator. Udinski is an OC. Both lack experience so they are unproven guys.
That leaves McDaniel on offense. He is known because he was with the Browns. He has head coaching experience with mixed results. Tua IMO was a very limited player. McDaniel made an offense for what skills Tua had. At times they were successful.
I think he is a real candidate because Schwartz could remain if not hired by Ravens or another team. A McDaniel /Schwartz combo and maybe keeping Rees.
I could see that.
I think Udinski is a dark horse. I really liked what the Jags did this year. If he is convincing through the interviewing process. He could be a surprise hire.
If they hire a young unproven OC or DC as the HC (Minter, Udinski, Scheelhaase, Shula, or PItcher), the Browns could keep Reese and Schwartz. If not these two, they could hire McDaniel, Brian Callahan, or BIll Musgrave as the OC, and for the DC position, Zach Orr, Dennard Wilson, Anthony Weaver, Nick Rallis, Jonathan Gannon, or Jeff Ulbrich. The question becomes can these young guys work with these coordinators.
We could be looking at the next Sean McVay or seeking a new head coach in a year or two.
I'm trying to keep a lot of people in mind to try and help convince myself everything will be okay when they sign someone with no proven track record as HC when all of the best candidates have already signed elsewhere.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm trying to keep a lot of people in mind to try and help convince myself everything will be okay when they sign someone with no proven track record as HC when all of the best candidates have already signed elsewhere.
I thoroughly agree with you.
I think he right thing to do is hire Jim Schwartz. He has been very successful as D Coordinator and has past head coach experience. Our GM and Owner have expressed interest in him staying on a D Coordinator with interviews according to reports. I think if he is so valuable you want to keep him on just hire him as head coach. Your best player Myles Garrett has been on record saying he is a fan of Schwartz's detailed organized approach. Look what this team has and what is does not have. It has a playoff caliber defense. Sustain that and build the offense around that. Hire Schwartz and let him hire an offensive coordinator that compliments his defense.
What they will probably will do is hire the 30-year-old supposed to be genius and try to be the smartest person in the room and hope Schwartz stays on as D Coordinator. It might work but if that is what they want to do why not just keep Stefanski? He was already the smartest person in the room type
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I'm trying to keep a lot of people in mind to try and help convince myself everything will be okay when they sign someone with no proven track record as HC when all of the best candidates have already signed elsewhere.
Yep.
This is the Browns we are talking about, I'm thinking we take what we can get (sighs).
I expect us to be so busy with adding candidates for interviews that we see people snapped up by other clubs and we must pick from the others left over. What are we looking for that Ski lacked or failed out that got him the door. Interviewing 50 or so doesn't mean you had a good search or that your "due-r" diligence was more effective. It does indicate a choice to interview more people than needed, and honestly, they can't all bring our answer. I want us to offer the job(s) to proven candidates strong in what we need. Limit what we are sining the HC to do. It is a kind off organizational triage. Avoid the past committee approach, lots of input, lots of losing Focus and simplified yardsticks for success are needed to address this culture. First, stop bleeding. I would hire Schwartz and Callahan, find a new STs. Hire your anchors.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I just want to take a moment to point out that we are nearly a full month into 2026 and the Cleveland Browns have not lost a single game this year.
As far as the head coach search, I think that because our FO is set and we are set on Schwartz staying as DC (provided he doesn't leave to be the HC elsewhere), we have the luxury of sitting and waiting to see who might become available as the playoffs go along. Whomever it is that comes in will really only need to bring their head coach organizational skills and an offense. Most of the rest of the staff is already set.
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 01/15/2606:40 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
When the Browns made the trade down with the Jags.
The plan was obvious to use the 2026 second first rounder to draft a quarterback. Package two first rounders to get "the guy."
Now it does not look like that will happen. Moore is going back to school.
Mendoza will be the first pick going to the Raiders.
Ty Simpson is in the draft. There are other teams in front of the Browns that need a quarterback. The Jets and Cardinals are the teams.
I don't know what teams think of Simpson?
Chambliss according to the most recent report is expected to return to school. John Mateer is returning to school.
It would not surprise me if the Browns traded down in 2026 maybe with both first round picks and use this draft to accumulate more picks in 2027.
Then use the picks in 2026 to build the OL and WR rooms with better depth along with using free agency.
I think you are right on your assessment at this point. However, I expect at least 1 or more QB name to rise before the draft. There were names before the college season started that were seen as possible top prospects, but they dropped due underperforming on the field. Two years ago, Drake Maye had an underperforming year at North Carolina, but he still rose in the draft process. I think QB's performances in the Senior Bowl practices and game will be closely monitored. If a QB performs well during the senior bowl week, they now have a golden opportunity to change the conversation.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
Under such a scenario they will have to hire someone at the HC position who is willing to let the FO and owner dictate to him the entire defensive side of his own coaching staff. That's in no way the normal process. A HC usually selects and hires his own coaching staff. That will greatly reduce the candidates willing to take the job.
If the owner and FO wants to dictate to you who will be a full one half of your coaching staff, how sold are they on you as a HC from day 1? This sounds like just another recipe for disaster.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Pick # 6, OT- Mauigoa (UM) or Fano (UT), #24, OT-Dunker (IA), #39, WR- Bell (UL) or Brazzell (TN) or Conception TX A&M), #70, QB-Beck (UM), #107, OG-Reed-Adams (TA&M), #139, DL-Bear Alexander (OR), then BPA remainder. If Beck is gone get best QB FA available.
I don't see waiting until pick #39 as a good gamble to make any major upgrade to the WR room. It's certainly possible but certainly not a good gamble for a major impact.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I thought this was supposed to be a deep WR class? I keep seeing mocks with Jordyn Tyson going to us but that he also has an epic injury rap sheet. Most important ability is availability. I'd be perfectly happy if 9 out of 10 picks we took like 6 OL and 3WRs. That won't happen of course but it would be great. Use the last one on another RB or blocking TE. I don't see a point on taking another developmental QB. We don't develop QBs. In Cleveland, they need to be "heat and serve".
Even though he had a great draft last year I have the sneaking suspicion that Berry will have some head scratchers. Like if Caleb Downs is sitting there at 6. It would be hard to argue the pick from a BPA standpoint but would help us win 0 games in the short run.
Is the draft here yet?
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
I actually see things much differently than that. If they don't think the QB they've been searching for is in this draft, I see every possibility they will trade down again for another first round pick in next years draft.
Another complication is that teams at the bottom of the draft have less needs. That's why they're winners and more complete teams. Teams selecting before us in round 2 have already gotten their #1 need and have the luxury of scooping up any remaining gems left on the board. If there are truly any WR steals left in this draft by that point, I look for them to be snatched up late first or early second round. We hear the talking heads say a lot of things every year before the draft. How deep or how weak certain positions are and projections of where players will be selected. Like Shedeur Sanders being a first round draft pick. Over the years I've learned not to take what they say as serious as some people do. But to each their own.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
PFF gave out final grades on O lines- Cleveland ranked 31 and our best lineman Bitonio probably will RETIRE. Ya think WRs and QBs have success with crap lines....our results speak for themselves- get good linemen.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Improving the OL and WR positions should be addressed. But the results may not yield the results some people are hoping for.
That will just make the run game and pass protection better and the passing game better to some extent. Then you get mired at .500 because you still don't have your QB and now it will be much more difficult for you to draft one.
That's why NFL teams near the top of the draft address the QB first while the opportunity is there and then build the team around their QB instead of the other way around.
I get that this year is what most consider a weak QB class and this year may not be the year to do that.
But better than actually using those first two draft picks, if they can trade down to stock up for next years draft tom get a QB it will be a much better investment long term.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
If I was a head coach candidate. I would kill to go to Buffalo.
Let's see if the Browns contact McDermott.
Yeah, Josh Allen in his prime will make that job a priority job that is open. If new coach does not keep Joe Brady OC he will also become a hot name that is available.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I'm starting to feel the same way, like we're going to have to settle for leftovers. Of course, we could do the smart thing and hire JS and then an OC if Rees leaves. That might be the easiest and smartest way out.
What I think should have been obvious from the beginning is the Browns are not a desired destination for top HC candidates. There are and were much better situations available to them. Only if and when those avenues are exhausted would they consider coming here. When someone turns down an interview as your HC to accept a position as OC on another team that should tell people all they need to know.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I can see this going the way I feared from the beginning.
We end with someone others did not consider and get turned down by candidates going for better opportunities.
To be fair, all the candidates interviewed by the Browns have had or are planning to have interviews with other teams. How the other teams view these candidates are anybody's guess. The younger guys, they are viewed as very intelligent coaches. The obvious question is can they lead a team. I am not worried about if they can build a staff. I am sure they have connections throughout the NFL and/or they do have veteran coaches that can vouch coaching with them.
You can look at it in a positive light, they are doing their due diligence on casting a wide net of coaches from various teams and backgrounds. They know Schwartz very well as being with the organization for a few years. I expect/assume they know what exactly JS wants and have gotten their feedback (positive or negative) about his feelings regarding interviewing other candidates.
I can see this going the way I feared from the beginning.
We end with someone others did not consider and get turned down by candidates going for better opportunities.
We can do what (I believe) the Patriots did. They hired a placeholder (Jerod Mayo), and then dumped him when someone they were targeting became available. This offensive roster is going to be a mess for at least another year.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
The Browns in some ways are painting themselves into a corner.
They have been very public about wanting to keep Schwartz.
That pretty much eliminates other defensive coaches. Schwartz is either the head coach or DC.
If he is not the head coach then in some ways he will be expected to mentor a young offensive head coach.
He may not feel good about that role. Schwartz could leave and he will get hired as the DC of his choice.
So let's say they hire Udinski or Scheelhaase. If Schwartz wants to go somewhere else.
Then these guys have to build an entire staff. In addition they don't know the players at all.
Myles and guys like Ward, Delpit, and others who have thrived under Schwartz are left to accept playing for a new guy who they do not know while believing the Browns are blowing it by not keeping Schwartz.
IMO not hiring Schwartz as the head coach is not a good idea.
Head coaches have to coach coaches. Now a 30 year old with little experience has to hire a staff and lead guys who could be close to twice their age.
Schwartz is already respected as a leader and his results as the DC give him credibility.
If Schwartz is ok with a young inexperienced head coach then it doesn't matter. He will remain.
Hire Schwartz and make him HC outright or co-HC with a title and promotion. Hope FO asks of itself "What has he achieved for us?" and also "What else is expected from him beyond where he is now?" He set the bar higher and managed more than any other part of this dumpster blaze. Build the roster around him. We can screw this up waiting to do interviews. What does he have? What does he bring? Build around that for next year. Stabilize the new roster and use his "badassery."
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
I don't know JS's mind set as far being OK with remaining on as DC.
He was not hired by the Ravens. It was the only other head coach job he interviewed for.
My guess at this point is the Browns will hire Scheelhaase and JS will remain as the DC.
The reason is they want Jim to be the DC and they want the head coach to be the guy who develops the quarterback.
I don't know about Scheelhaase other than what his resume says. Is he a leader of men? He probably has a good grasp on offense but I have no idea if he is ready to be a head coach.
IMO Berry and Haslam have to feel he will grow into the job. Is that a good way to approach this?
I keep seeing a point about it will be easy for JS to staff the team, and some kind of negative for Scheelhaase.
All these coaches will have no problem putting a staff together. I highly doubt a coach is going into an interview made zero plans for his staff. Then asks the front office if they know anyone to hire as his assistants, lol.
These coaches will bring usually someone(s) over from their previous place. Kevin brought over a few pieces from his Browns staff. The Rams have a really good/great coaching staff with an excellent HC. I would be happy if they grab a few coaches from them.
Last edited by ScottPlayersFacemask; 01/27/2610:37 AM.
Then asks the front office if they know anyone to hire as his assistants, lol.
He may not have to ask them. They may tell him. When you get a young guy who hasn't even been an OC or DC before, or even a very limited time at either job, based on age and experience alone his connections aren't equal to an older, more experienced coach. He is looking for his first chance to step on a big stage. This makes it far more conducive to having control over him and his staff.
Reports are already leaking out that Haslam is demanding Schwartz stay on as DC. So he is already demanding he has control over half of the new HC's staff. I like the idea of Schwartz staying on as DC or even being named HC. But it makes it much harder trying to hire a new HC when you're dictating half of his coaching staff to him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Anything is possibly a leak. But a leak is true. A rumor maybe or maybe not. That's certainly true. However when you have a pattern of behavior to base things on it tends to make this possibility much more plausible.
And you may make something up to counter what I said. Surely you're not suggesting that a passing game coordinator who has only coached in the NFL for short period of time has had the time to make the strong and vast connections someone who has been coaching in the league for many years have developed are you?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
A leak is true? Teams "leak" things all the time. Psst...we REALLY like Travis Hunter. Next on X: Our sources are telling us that the Browns are leaning on drafting Travis Hunter at number two.. It's draft season...the king of "leaks"
"Surely you're not suggesting that a passing game coordinator who has only coached in the NFL for short period of time has had the time to make the strong and vast connections someone who has been coaching in the league for many years have developed are you?"
Sure, that is what I said or meant.
Make something up?
1. Ok, JS knows more people...who says they're available or wanting to coach with him.
2. Generalizing, it keeps being brought up that our roster/team sucks. Then it is said: Why would a top tier HC come here? Take that example and now say you are a top tier assistant coach that is buddies with JS...sure you are friends, but why would you come here when they suck? So you can get fired in a couple years?
There are other examples besides those. However, I know where this is going. No worries.
A leak is true? Teams "leak" things all the time. Psst...we REALLY like Travis Hunter. Next on X: Our sources are telling us that the Browns are leaning on drafting Travis Hunter at number two.. It's draft season...the king of "leaks"
Those are rumors, not leaks. Here is what a leak is............
To "leak information" means to intentionally or unintentionally disclose, release, or expose confidential, sensitive, or private data to unauthorized individuals or the public. It involves breaking trust, where information meant to be secured is revealed. This can result from accidental human error, poor security measures, or deliberate, malicious sharing
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Sure, that is what I said or meant.
For future reference, a question mark is used as a punctuation mark to ask you IF that's what you meant and not a statement CLAIMING that's what you meant.
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Make something up?
1. Ok, JS knows more people...who says they're available or wanting to coach with him.
2. Generalizing, it keeps being brought up that our roster/team sucks. Then it is said: Why would a top tier HC come here? Take that example and now say you are a top tier assistant coach that is buddies with JS...sure you are friends, but why would you come here when they suck? So you can get fired in a couple years?
There are other examples besides those. However, I know where this is going. No worries.
You didn't make anything up. Those are questions and not statements. Once again a very simple mistake. If your options are limited and you really want a shot as a HC with having very little NFL coaching exprerence you would likely be more willing to take greater risks and less control to get that shot.
That's a statement.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I can see this going the way I feared from the beginning.
We end with someone others did not consider and get turned down by candidates going for better opportunities.
We can do what (I believe) the Patriots did. They hired a placeholder (Jerod Mayo), and then dumped him when someone they were targeting became available. This offensive roster is going to be a mess for at least another year.
I've been thinking about the timing of this whole thing over the past couple days.
Here's a conspiracy theory... Stefanski knew he was on his way out and broke the plan by winning the last two games. Jimmy was planning on being locked and loaded for the new coach to have a brand new QB in the draft. Stefanski knew he was the scapegoat and decided he wasn't going to go out as a lame duck.
There has been zero chatter (that I have seen) regarding McDermitt and the Browns. I find this puzzling considering prior strong interest and him now being the available candidate with the strongest HC experience.
Don't take what I said the wrong way... if we are going to hire a defensive-minded HC, my preference is Schwartz. I just find it weird how little there has been reported regarding our potential interest.
Obviously HC will be turned off by being dictated their DC, but I also wonder if it's more than that. Schwartz had quite a lot of vocal support from the locker room coming out of the regular season. I wonder if outside candidates see Schwartz as a job security issue that could start day 1. It's gotta be tough coming into a job where your players campaigned for one of your own subordinates (that's still in the building and should continue his run of good play from his unit).
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
My guess with McDermott is that it must be known that he wants to take time off.
I don't think a guy like Scheelhaase would have an issue with Schwartz. The reason being him being hired is based upon what he brings from the offensive side and how he would develop a quarterback.
JS has control of the defense. The players already know what he brings to the defense.
Schwartz is an asset because he knows the players. I would think any head coach would love to have him as a DC.
If it ends up as Scheelhaase and JS as DC. I am good with that.
If it ends up with JS as head coach. I am good with that as well.
I just wonder if HC candidates (especially younger ones that would come in having to prove themselves) would see Schwartz as more of a threat vs an asset considering he's got players campaigning for his promotion and is clearly valued by ownership. The cries from the mob could get ugly unusually quick if/when it's tough sledding this upcoming season... and we all know how resilient Haslam is when the mob gets loud.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
There's been a lot of complaining about KS on these forums the last few years. Well, he's gone and we have a new coach which should make some people happy and there's still complaints. I say let's give Monken some time to see how he runs things. Let's see how we look after training camp and at the start of the season. Was it the right move who knows but we should give him a chance. We may finally have a solid HC.
I’ve always said there are Browns fans who are miserable (rightfully so) and fans of being miserable who happen to like the Browns…
This is like anytime the Browns make a draft pick. There are some that wanted that pick and rejoicing when it is made. Some that hate the draft pick and complain after it is made. And some that will say let's wait and see how he does. I am disappointed. I thought Jim Schwartz should have got promoted. He has by far and away been the best hire since Haslam has been owner. I think he earned and deserved this opportunity. The decision to hire Monken and the fallout with Schwartz confirms the dysfunction inside the headquarters. That is also disappointing to hear about. I don't hate the Monken pick. I actually prefer it over one of the young guys they interviewed. I do not think the young guys would have been able to handle the dysfunction that is the Browns FO. I like Monken's tough guy approach. I like the fact he wants to build a bully. That has proven successful in the AFC North for years. See Baltimore and Pittsburgh. I also like that his first hire was an offensive line coach. That is what I see as this team's biggest need. I hope they can work things out with Schwartz because I think he and Monken and the bully ball approach would work well together and this team could finally play complimentary football. We will see.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I agree with what you're saying. I think KS is a good coach but I don't think he was tough enough and held anyone accountable. If what I've been reading is true I doubt JS will be coming back but him paired with Monken might be just what this team needs.
I don't get where you think the FO is dysfunctional.
Hiring Monken meant he was the better option over the OC Schwartz wanted to hire.
Cleveland's defense is good enough to attract a good DC. If you want experience, Chuck Pagano, Sean McDermott, or Wink Martindale. If you want someone from the college ranks, Glenn Schumann from University of Georgia.
The offense was what was holding up attracting the best coaching candidates. Hiring Monken makes a lot of sense.
I am hoping Monken, Berry, and Haslam can talk Schwartz into staying, but if not, it's not like that cannot find a good DC.
If Ravens hadn't canned Harbaugh and Monken was still their OC, I think sentiment on this hire would have been higher. As is, feels like we got served yesterday's leftovers.
When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
I’m not sure if we’re looking for an indictment of Bubbas coaching or the inability of Berry to fill out a solid bottom end of roster or both…
For me, special teams is like the bullpen in baseball. When you expect them to be good, their not. When you expect them to be bad, they surprise you. In other words, it can change in a blink of an eye for reasons unknown.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
His special teams were the main culprit in two losses by the Browns last season. Bad special teams play factored into other losses but not the main culprit.
Game 1 vs Bengals - Lost by 1. Missed extra point and missed inside 40 yard field goal.
Jets game Browns outgained the Jets by 109 yards lost by 7 and gave up 1 punt return for TD and 1 kick return for TD.
There were numerous other gaffs that were inexcusable for an NFL team.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I’m not sure if we’re looking for an indictment of Bubbas coaching or the inability of Berry to fill out a solid bottom end of roster or both…
For me, special teams is like the bullpen in baseball. When you expect them to be good, their not. When you expect them to be bad, they surprise you. In other words, it can change in a blink of an eye for reasons unknown.
Maybe I just don't know baseball, but I always considered special teams coaching issues to be the easiest to spot. There are maybe a handful of teams that have a true ST "ace". Other than that, it's full of guys that are 1-2 bad plays from being cut and generally (at least in the case of kick/punt units) are filled with guys that don't see the field much except for those situations. These are depth players from offensive and defensive units and as such you're not going to see significant differences in raw talent from team to team.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
Browns 2025 Punt Ret Avg Yds Allowed 12.7 yds (Rank: 26th) Punt Ret TD Allowed 2 (Rank: T 30th) Blocked Punts Allowed 2 (Rank: T 29th) KO Ret Avg Yds Allowed 27.8 yds (Rank: 28th) KO Ret TD Allowed 1 (Rank T 26th)
Punt Ret Avg Yds 7.2 Yds (Rank: 26th) Punt Returns Fumbled 5 (Rank: 32nd) KO Ret Avg Yds 23.7 (Rank: 31st) KO Ret Longest 34 yds (Rank: 32nd)
Draw your own conclusions
Your opinion is as valid as mine--no matter how crazy it is!
There's been a lot of complaining about KS on these forums the last few years. Well, he's gone and we have a new coach which should make some people happy and there's still complaints. I say let's give Monken some time to see how he runs things. Let's see how we look after training camp and at the start of the season. Was it the right move who knows but we should give him a chance. We may finally have a solid HC.
Well I gotta get this one out of my system.
Worst choice of all the people we interviewed IMO. Hate this choice for a few reasons.
That being said. Welcome (back) to Cleveland Monkman Please prove me wrong and make me eat crow.
"These are depth players from offensive and defensive units and as such you're not going to see significant differences in raw talent from team to team."
I liked the bullpen analogy - and kind of agree that's how I feel about the Browns special teams... surprise you when you don't expect it but for the most part failed to do their job.... I also agree with the rare exception, ST are made of of bit players. So coaching matters very much ... and you just have to look at the stats posted to see where the Browns were. I said during the season he ST coach should have been fired around week 10 or 11. Glad he's gone - the fact the Rams took him doesn't change a thing.
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
His special teams were the main culprit in two losses by the Browns last season. Bad special teams play factored into other losses but not the main culprit.
Game 1 vs Bengals - Lost by 1. Missed extra point and missed inside 40 yard field goal.
Jets game Browns outgained the Jets by 109 yards lost by 7 and gave up 1 punt return for TD and 1 kick return for TD.
There were numerous other gaffs that were inexcusable for an NFL team.
Is that why the Rams nabbed him up so quick? I hope you understand it's becoming increasingly clear that just like many of us, NFL teams understand that the issue wasn't with our coaches. The problem was the roster.
The Rams are one of the best teams in the NFL. They seem to understand what some Browns fans don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Any video of Minken meeting Myles or Denzel Ward? Or Q, or Carson, or Fannin JR, or Graham? You know, players that actually performed anywhere from good to awesome.
If the issue was with the roster,why does Berry still have a job? just kidding.In fact Bubba brought up that very same issue some time back.Roster construction is not one of Berry's strong suits.He is a handsome man who does very well in a press briefing.
His special teams were the main culprit in two losses by the Browns last season. Bad special teams play factored into other losses but not the main culprit.
Game 1 vs Bengals - Lost by 1. Missed extra point and missed inside 40 yard field goal.
Jets game Browns outgained the Jets by 109 yards lost by 7 and gave up 1 punt return for TD and 1 kick return for TD.
There were numerous other gaffs that were inexcusable for an NFL team.
Is that why the Rams nabbed him up so quick? I hope you understand it's becoming increasingly clear that just like many of us, NFL teams understand that the issue wasn't with our coaches. The problem was the roster.
The Rams are one of the best teams in the NFL. They seem to understand what some Browns fans don't.
The Rams fired their special teams coach in late November and lost in the NFC Championship game due to a special team's blunder. In that department they were no better than the Browns.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
The Rams fired their special teams coach in late November and lost in the NFC Championship game due to a special team's blunder. In that department they were no better than the Browns.
So out of every coach available to them, they selected Vetrone. You do realize that you're not making any sense here don't you?
I get it. We do have fans that think they know more than one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the past several years. But that math doesn't math.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Rams fired their special teams coach in late November and lost in the NFC Championship game due to a special team's blunder. In that department they were no better than the Browns.
So out of every coach available to them, they selected Vetrone. You do realize that you're not making any sense here don't you?
I get it. We do have fans that think they know more than one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the past several years. But that math doesn't math.
Our special teams SUCKED. It was the worst I can ever remember... and every time I thought I had seen the bottom of the barrel... it got even worse still. All metrics show that is true -- bottom five in NFL.
He was the coach, so he SUCKED too. Sucked, sucked, sucked. Now you're trying to play Nostridumass because a good team picked him up. Predicting the future and acting like you're already right sucks too. Just. Stop. 🤣
The Rams fired their special teams coach in late November and lost in the NFC Championship game due to a special team's blunder. In that department they were no better than the Browns.
So out of every coach available to them, they selected Vetrone. You do realize that you're not making any sense here don't you?
I get it. We do have fans that think they know more than one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the past several years. But that math doesn't math.
Bubba Ventrone was terrible at his job in Cleveland. The Browns special teams were as bad as the offense. Only the defense played well in 2025.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
The Rams fired their special teams coach in late November and lost in the NFC Championship game due to a special team's blunder. In that department they were no better than the Browns.
So out of every coach available to them, they selected Vetrone. You do realize that you're not making any sense here don't you?
I get it. We do have fans that think they know more than one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the past several years. But that math doesn't math.
Our special teams SUCKED. It was the worst I can ever remember... and every time I thought I had seen the bottom of the barrel... it got even worse still. All metrics show that is true -- bottom five in NFL.
He was the coach, so he SUCKED too. Sucked, sucked, sucked. Now you're trying to play Nostridumass because a good team picked him up. Predicting the future and acting like you're already right sucks too. Just. Stop. 🤣
And the talent sucked too. The Rams are one of the best teams in the league and they made the choice to hire him. They decided to hire Sean McVay too. One of the best teams in the NFL who hired one of the top 5 HC's in the NFL.
I would certainly wager my money on the Rams over a bunch of wanna be know it alls on a message board. Stop pretending that some fan boys on a message board know more than one of the top teams in the NFL. Just. Stop .
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Bubba Ventrone was terrible at his job in Cleveland. The Browns special teams were as bad as the offense. Only the defense played well in 2025.
And only the defense had the talent to play well. Who the GM gives you to put on the field matters no matter how hard people try to pretend it doesn't.
Just ask Mike Vrabel. But you may wish to wait a couple of weeks. He's kind of busy right now with the Superbowl coming up. Just like Pepperidge Farm. Titan fans remember.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Rams fired their special teams coach in late November and lost in the NFC Championship game due to a special team's blunder. In that department they were no better than the Browns.
So out of every coach available to them, they selected Vetrone. You do realize that you're not making any sense here don't you?
I get it. We do have fans that think they know more than one of the most successful teams in the NFL over the past several years. But that math doesn't math.
Our special teams SUCKED. It was the worst I can ever remember... and every time I thought I had seen the bottom of the barrel... it got even worse still. All metrics show that is true -- bottom five in NFL.
He was the coach, so he SUCKED too. Sucked, sucked, sucked. Now you're trying to play Nostridumass because a good team picked him up. Predicting the future and acting like you're already right sucks too. Just. Stop. 🤣
And the talent sucked too. The Rams are one of the best teams in the league and they made the choice to hire him. They decided to hire Sean McVay too. One of the best teams in the NFL who hired one of the top 5 HC's in the NFL.
I would certainly wager my money on the Rams over a bunch of wanna be know it alls on a message board. Stop pretending that some fan boys on a message board know more than one of the top teams in the NFL. Just. Stop .
The special teams talent sucked? A special teams coach has a pool of about 40 players to choose from, if that department lands as one of worst in the league, the coach definitely shares that blame. And in the hierarchy of things, he absorbs that blame. Same as it ever was, same as it will always be.
So, the bottom line, not that is ever the focus of conversation, is that he had three years here and severely underperformed. A better description would be SUCKED. And sucked worse as time went on.
When a poster says his departure is "good for us" and your question is "how is it good?", the answer is obvious... because we're done with the "suck" in that department. He can go on and be a HOF coach, the response would still be "well, he sucked as a ST coach here in Cleveland".
And what "one of the best teams in the NFL" knows is that their special teams was one of maybe two that were actually worse than the Browns. Now, McVay will have his FIFTH different ST coach in nine years. Five in nine years and his ST was actually worse than the Browns. Not exactly a glaring endorsement. But I'm sure this time he got it right. Why am I sure? Because you told me I am. 👌
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Please prove me wrong and make me eat crow.