For outside receivers, in addition to gauging and adjusting for a player's personnel circumstances, Joe and Marcus based their grades on the following criteria:
Route Running: 30 points. Does this receiver run a full route tree? Can he beat cornerbacks on everything from angular routes in the slot to straight vertical routes up the boundary? How well does he fake and juke his way out of tight coverage? Does he make things easier for his quarterback by breaking to the ball at a friendly angle, or is he a step late? How well does he coordinate with his quarterback on option routes?
Hands: 25 points. Can this player make things easier for his quarterback by expanding his catch radius and bringing in badly thrown balls? Does he catch the ball away from his body and turn quickly to run, or does he bring it into his body and exhibit subpar technique? How well does he rip the ball away from defenders on contested catches?
YAC: 20 points. Once he makes a reception, how well can a player run out of coverage to gain yards after the catch? Regardless of his size, is he both agile and physical enough to get away from tacklers?
Blocking: 15 points. On both running and passing plays, how well does the player block for his teammates? Is he intent on making every play work, or does he tend to disappear if he's not the target?
Position Value: 8 points. This takes into account positional importance when comparing scores to other spots on the gridiron. Wide receivers are given 8/10 points across the board, leaving them with a maximum score of 98/100.
The 6'3", 225-pound Gordon is a true No. 1 receiver. He can run every route with speed, precision and power and then make catches few can. After the reception, Gordon's size and speed stand out, and he drags tacklers and drops others with stiff arms. When he's on the field, he's a difference-maker. Unfortunately, due to off-field issues, he's missed significant time in his career. If he proves that he can be trusted to stay on the straight and narrow, he has the athletic potential to be a game-changing receiver, no matter how dysfunctional the offense around him may be
Dude needs to get into a training regimen and needs to stop playing basketball with Coates and Greg Little. Although I am looking forward to the eventual Cleveland Browns Basketball game after they go 0-16 again and give up football. I know ya'll saw Myles Garrett block that dunk.
I'm really hoping he makes it this time. We really need him to produce w/our new qb.
As am I. This offseason is huge for him.
Both physically and psychologically he made an immediate difference once he came back and defenses had to acknowledge and plan for him. Unfortunately, Coleman didn't seem to be able to capitalize on the defenses zeroing in on JG and become a significant threat on the wing or in the slot. Hopefully, he too can elevate his game in 2018.
I was really afraid to open this one. As good as he is, the upside if he went after it harder is obviously there. Keep it clean, Josh! If he is having fun now, can you imagine him howling if we get this offense and a QB untracked? He seems casual at times.
Yep. As soon as I saw this thread? My heart literally sank.
Strangely, that didn't happen for me. I was merely curious, with no baggage attached. Then I felt good reading the eval. It wasn't til I wandered into the "Battered Dawg" posts , that I realized how conditioned we've all become.
Now look- as I'm banging out this post, I'm grinning ear-to-ear. And I'm not preaching or tsk-tsk-tsk'ing anyone. Instead, I'm admitting that I understand (because I've been there too), but that coming in here blind and curious was a truly liberating experience. It really felt good. Kind of like a mini 5-minute vacation from my "usual Browns experience," you know?
Tonight, I'm just enjoying a positive Josh Gordon article in an offseason where he's an active duty player on our roster. That's some measure of progress... and it's enough to make me smile tonight. I can worry about future tragedy sometime in the future.
2015, or 16 was not that long ago, he was independently training in the offseason with Terrelle Pryor.
Time to go get Terrelle Pryor back to the Browns, because If Gordons size and tackler dragging creates problems for a defense, I know Pryor's size and awesome blocking on the same line up would add to the woes of a defense.
I'm super proud of Josh. He came back firing, looking every bit the superstar we knew he was.
I'm thankful someone put their foot down when Hue Jackson said he was "moving on" and that, "we need to close that chapter" on a Gordon return.
Hopefully he can make it through the offseason. He looked good this season, but he'll look even better with an offseason and camp/preseason of chemistry with his quarterback.
I've been thinking of how deadly that combo could be. Rosen is so accurate. He is much like Jimmy G in that they both hit the receiver in stride and can lead them to more yards after the catch. Gordon would thrive on crossing and seam routes.
Yes, and add another big WR with good hands on the other side, put Coleman in the slot, build chemistry with Njoku, add an RB like Sony Michel. That's an offense that can stun defenses, IMO.
Get your ass over to the other thread and answer my question ...
PLEASE .... ...
I did answer your question in that thread. If I'm right about the thread you're talking about you actually started that line of questioning by asking me first. I quickly answered.
Your glasses must have fallen off and you missed it. lol
I saw Josh Gordon on PFT headline and just automatically said "this is it, lasted longer than I initially thought" only to find out that the article was nothing bad.
I SAY SIGN GORDON LONG TERM TO INCENTIVE BASED CONTACT, GO OUT AND GET DEZ BRYANT TO PLAY ON THE OTHER SIDE AND LET COLEMAN PLAY THE SLOT... THAT WOULD CREATE THE MOST DANGEROUS RECEIVING CORP IN THE LEAGUE AND THE BEST THE BROWNS HAVE EVER FIELDED... SIMPLY DOING THAT WOULD CREATE AN IDEAL SITUATION FOR ANY QUARTERBACK WHETHER IT BE COUSINS, WHICH IM NOT THAT CRAZY ABOUT, OR THE GUY THEY CHOOSE AT #1! ANY VETERAN THEY WOULD BRING IN TO BRIDGE GAP WOULD BE SET! WE CAN GET A STARTING RUNNER TO PAIR WITH JOHNSON AT THE TOP OF THE 2ND AND TAKE THE BEST AVAILABLE WITH THE #4 PICK BEING FITZPATRICK OR WHOEVER THEY COVET. WE REALLY ARENT THAT FAR FROM BEING A CONTENDER IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS IF THIS OFF SEASON GOES AS HOPED.....FINGERS CROSSED IM TIRED OF SUPPORTING A PERENNIAL LOSER BUT IM A DIE HARD REGARDLESS
That whole ERFA business is kinda confusing. It sounds like he's not a FA at all.
An exclusive rights free agent is one with 2 or fewer years of accrued service. They can only negotiate with their current team.
I have read that Gordon will not reach unrestricted free agency till the 2020 season. We control him contractually for a couple of years because he did not fulfill his contract be being active for at least 6 games in 3 of his 5 seasons. (because of suspensions)
I get all that... but the limitation that he can only negotiate with his current team if they give him a qualifying offer (which is crazy low) kinda sounds like he's not a FA. Calling him a free agent (of any kind) seems kinda silly.
I get all that... but the limitation that he can only negotiate with his current team if they give him a qualifying offer (which is crazy low) kinda sounds like he's not a FA. Calling him a free agent (of any kind) seems kinda silly.
He's definitely not a free agent. It's just a term to say that he doesn't have a contract.
The other thing that I think is weird is how those unaccrued seasons affected his contract. He didn't accrue seasons to become a RFA or UFA, but he did accrue seasons to have his contract run out (technically, he doesn't have a contract anymore, right? So if we don't give him an offer, he's totally free to sign anywhere?). My understanding of Gordon's contract was that it was 'paused' the seasons he didn't play in enough games. By pausing his contract so much, he would've been on his rookie contract for forever.
I get all that... but the limitation that he can only negotiate with his current team if they give him a qualifying offer (which is crazy low) kinda sounds like he's not a FA. Calling him a free agent (of any kind) seems kinda silly.
If we didn't offer him a deal, then he would be a free agent.
It is like when we sign UDFA to 1 year deals. They are then ERFA, and they can only sign with us. (unless we relinquish their rights, or cut them at some point,
Good news on his status, pretty much what everyone was saying anyway.
Now is the time to sign Josh Gordon to a very team friendly extension.
I agree. We have the money. Give him a 3-4 mil upfront to sign, then give him some nice bonus bumps payable after he completes a season without suspension for the next 4 years..
Good news on his status, pretty much what everyone was saying anyway.
Now is the time to sign Josh Gordon to a very team friendly extension.
I agree. We have the money. Give him a 3-4 mil upfront to sign, then give him some nice bonus bumps payable after he completes a season without suspension for the next 4 years..
I hope Dorsey is smart enough to do this.
I wonder if Josh Gordon would even be open to staying in Cleveland?
Good news on his status, pretty much what everyone was saying anyway.
Now is the time to sign Josh Gordon to a very team friendly extension.
I agree. We have the money. Give him a 3-4 mil upfront to sign, then give him some nice bonus bumps payable after he completes a season without suspension for the next 4 years..
I hope Dorsey is smart enough to do this.
I wonder if Josh Gordon would even be open to staying in Cleveland?
I don't know?
I think at this point he needs money. If we offer him a chunk up front. he buys.
Or he could get it somewhere else. He already has made some comments that makes one wonder if he wants to be in Cleveland. The weather sucks. It's not a happening town. Add to that the unstable footing of our HC and why would he want to stay in Cleveland when he knows he can get paid somewhere else?
I agree with Vers that Josh probably doesn't want to play for a 1-31 Head Coach.
According to the article that was posted above, I guess it's not gonna be Josh's call?
-------------------
In effect, Gordon isn't free at all. The Browns maintain exclusive rights, which means the former Baylor star cannot negotiate with other teams. Once Cleveland tenders a qualifying offer, Gordon's options are limited to signing the tender or sitting out yet another season.
Maybe Josh wants to play in a cooler city, but he'd grow more as a person if he felt like he should make amends to the Browns and the fans for putting up with him, and his travails. For the past few seasons.
Or he could get it somewhere else. He already has made some comments that makes one wonder if he wants to be in Cleveland. The weather sucks. It's not a happening town. Add to that the unstable footing of our HC and why would he want to stay in Cleveland when he knows he can get paid somewhere else?
Good questions as well. Maybe he doesn't.
But, it is with us or nothing for now. I wouldn't offer anything less than a 3 year, incentive laden deal.
As I said, the real money would be payable at the end of the season after he keeps his nose clean. Vet minimum through the season, maybe 5-7 mil bonus at seasons end.
Good news on his status, pretty much what everyone was saying anyway.
Now is the time to sign Josh Gordon to a very team friendly extension.
I agree. We have the money. Give him a 3-4 mil upfront to sign, then give him some nice bonus bumps payable after he completes a season without suspension for the next 4 years..
I hope Dorsey is smart enough to do this.
Honestly, pay him whatever it takes to keep him. But be sure to put in a clause that he's getting nothing if he blows up again.
I'm not sure he perceives himself as having wronged the fans.
I'm pretty sure his failings are harder for him to stomach know he's let down his family, friends and child. Fans rightfully mean absolutely nothing. Gordon owes you nothing.
You talking about the same fans that tried to bash his mother in First Energy Stadium, too, or just those with a sense of entitlement?
Josh Gordon is a human being doing a job. He is not your slave. Don't get it twisted.
Josh will do what is best for him and his family - regardless of if you feel personally victimised by, um, I don't know.
We paid Hue Jackson to do a job and he hasn't delivered. He hasn't lived up to his part of the bargain. Josh is not going to want to play for a coach like that.
Good news on his status, pretty much what everyone was saying anyway.
Now is the time to sign Josh Gordon to a very team friendly extension.
I agree. We have the money. Give him a 3-4 mil upfront to sign, then give him some nice bonus bumps payable after he completes a season without suspension for the next 4 years..
I hope Dorsey is smart enough to do this.
Honestly, pay him whatever it takes to keep him. But be sure to put in a clause that he's getting nothing if he blows up again.
Do people think players get paid when they are suspended?
We paid Hue Jackson to do a job and he hasn't delivered. He hasn't lived up to his part of the bargain. Josh is not going to want to play for a coach like that.
Seriously, you went there? No wonder some posters bash you....
I'm not sure he perceives himself as having wronged the fans.
I'm pretty sure his failings are harder for him to stomach know he's let down his family, friends and child. Fans rightfully mean absolutely nothing. Gordon owes you nothing.
You talking about the same fans that tried to bash his mother in First Energy Stadium, too, or just those with a sense of entitlement?
Josh Gordon is a human being doing a job. He is not your slave. Don't get it twisted.
Josh will do what is best for him and his family - regardless of if you feel personally victimised by, um, I don't know.
BDU, my post was immediately under, and in response to lampdogg's post;
"Just clicking.
Maybe Josh wants to play in a cooler city, but he'd grow more as a person if he felt like he should make amends to the Browns and the fans for putting up with him, and his travails. For the past few seasons."
Please notice that in his post he mentioned making "amends to the Browns and the fans".
I'm not exactly sure why my comment, when seen in context, deserved your scolding me about my feeling personally victimized. I do not feel personally victimized, I was simply making a point that I don't think he perceives himself as owning anything to the fans.
We paid Hue Jackson to do a job and he hasn't delivered. He hasn't lived up to his part of the bargain. Josh is not going to want to play for a coach like that.
Seriously, you went there? No wonder sometwo posters bash you....
We paid Hue Jackson to do a job and he hasn't delivered. He hasn't lived up to his part of the bargain. Josh is not going to want to play for a coach like that.
Seriously, you went there? No wonder some posters bash you....
Yeah this might sound ridiculous, but a part of me feels like he screwed the Browns - and us fans. Maybe that's short-sighted, but I kinda feel that way.
1 TD in 3 years and his fans want the Browns to sell the farm to keep him. LOL
First, he didn't play for most of that time so how was he to score?
Second, he proved last season that he still has the skills.
So yes, pay the man, put in conditions. He messes up, he's done.
but you really dont have to put in conditions , because if he messes up he is done regardless. His next substance abuse violation would most likely be a permanent suspension or at least long enough to pretty much end his career
Not quite sure what signing him to an extension this year would accomplish. I was under the impression that he would be a ERFA this season and a restricted free agent next season. With Josh still on his last strike for the remainder of his career, a second round tender next season all but guarantees Cleveland would have until free agency 2020 to explore a new contract. Assuming Josh stays clean for the next two seasons that it.
Instead of the $16 million a year Josh Gordon would likely be averaging right now if he'd never gotten suspended, he's set to make $790,000 with the #Browns in '18 as an ERFA
If Josh Gordon never got suspended then he would be the highest paid WR in NFL history. The dude was a freak in his prime and when he was mentally there. Brian Hoyer talked about playing with JG and how JG would run the wrong routes and other dumb things. JG took 3 shots of Jamison then hit a bong bowl before every game and he was still the best athlete out there. There's nothing he can do about the past, but he can set himself up for his future over the next two following years. I hope he proves why we should sign him instead of OBJ in the future.
If history has taught us anything it's that when it comes to improving the Browns at the WR position, you have to address it as though you don't have Gordon on your roster.
Instead of the $16 million a year Josh Gordon would likely be averaging right now if he'd never gotten suspended, he's set to make $790,000 with the #Browns in '18 as an ERFA
man, i would LOVE to have a player of that caliber get paid like that on this team. i really hope this dude can keep it together. he has the talent to not only get his jersey retired at our stadium, but end up in the hall.
Instead of the $16 million a year Josh Gordon would likely be averaging right now if he'd never gotten suspended, he's set to make $790,000 with the #Browns in '18 as an ERFA
man, i would LOVE to have a player of that caliber get paid like that on this team. i really hope this dude can keep it together. he has the talent to not only get his jersey retired at our stadium, but end up in the hall.
It may be a little late for the HOF.
No doubt I'd like to see him make it long term, and not just for selfish reasons.
I'd really like to see Dorsey extend him 3 years. Give him a nice signing bonus that is his on signing, then structure his contract to have a season ending bonus, payable if he hasn't been suspended by the league for substance issues.
As you said, he has real talent that I would like to keep on the team.
I'd give him 4 mil to sign.....then give him 5 mil at seasons end for the next 3-4 years, in addition to his regular pay of say 1.2 a year.
If you structure the contract properly, he isn't that big of a risk.
I also think the guy needs a guidance counselor who would get him to actually save a good portion of his bonus money in a investment vehicle, such as an annuity that would start paying him at age 48 or so....a mil a year.
By the time you are 48 or 50 you have been around the block a few times. You begin to understand. Most 20 somethings ..even 30 somethings don't get it.
You go from 25 to 55 pretty quickly. Some of you know what I am talking about.
But we do not need a killer contract for him this year IIRC. We should sweeten it some IMO beyond basement money or no- match level. But if he can be snagged for several years on options, like if we can incentivize his career into the future, that would be great. No more games, and screwing up.
I respect everyone's opinions on here. I know all about Gordon's talent and his history. I have watched games where he does not give enough effort on plays. You have to ask yourself, can you trust him? If I was Dorsey I'd trade him. We need to build around players we can count on. Sometimes you have to make decisions on your gut instincts.
I am not going to say I know how long he could remain ours.
I am thinking this year. We are the only team he can talk to. I'd tie him up another 3-4 years. No real guaranteed money on our end other than the signing bonus.
He can guarantee the money promised by staying clean.
I think he needs money. Give him some and he will sign.
I respect everyone's opinions on here. I know all about Gordon's talent and his history. I have watched games where he does not give enough effort on plays. You have to ask yourself, can you trust him? If I was Dorsey I'd trade him. We need to build around players we can count on. Sometimes you have to make decisions on your gut instints.
I think it's easy to say trade him, but there's no market for him. If you don't trust him no one else will. You might get a 6th or a 7th for him, but nothing more. You're essentially selling low for him. Especially since he'll be a RFA next year and an UFA the year after that. It's much cheaper just to trust him imo.
it's his call to sign an extension or not, if offered.
Yes, you are correct but I think our main concern with him would not be if he would sign an extension but if he can remain clean & sober that long to even sign.
If he can do so, can you imagine how mad most of us would be if he refused to sign and instead sat out the whole season?
It is the year that if he does things right he could set his family up for life.
Gordon has shown what he is capable of. He did it while stoned and with poor quarterback play.
Now he has the entire year to be ready for a full sixteen games. He may actually have a quarterback who can through it. (although that remains unclear at this time).
If the Browns add the players this year through FA and the draft that can impact play; we can win games.
But Gordon has the chance to make up for all the wrong.
I want to see what this guy can really do. What a dedicated, healthy, super stud can put down with the right conditions.
Just imagine if he is on the same page with a real quarterback. With a balanced attack and additional quality receivers.
We really don't have anything to lose by keeping him. Everyone in the league knows he's one strike away from being out of the league so nobody is going to give us much anyway. And if he's suspended he isn't getting paid. So we may as well keep him.
We just can't go into the FA market or draft acting as though he's actually on the roster. We have to just consider it a bonus if and when he is.
We really don't have anything to lose by keeping him. Everyone in the league knows he's one strike away from being out of the league so nobody is going to give us much anyway. And if he's suspended he isn't getting paid. So we may as well keep him.
We just can't go into the FA market or draft acting as though he's actually on the roster. We have to just consider it a bonus if and when he is.
True, he's worth a 1st rounder for his potential production on the field to us. On the trading block, he's not going to bring us that.
As I said before, I think the guy needs a infusion of cash. I offer him a 3 year extension....maybe 4 mil signing bonus up front, then his contract would pay the bulk after he completes each season without incident.
As I said before, I think the guy needs a infusion of cash. I offer him a 3 year extension....maybe 4 mil signing bonus up front, then his contract would pay the bulk after he completes each season without incident.
He has yet to prove himself trustworthy. I would offer minimal money up front (4 million can get you in a heap of trouble) with bonuses at seasons end. Keep him hungry...
As I said before, I think the guy needs a infusion of cash. I offer him a 3 year extension....maybe 4 mil signing bonus up front, then his contract would pay the bulk after he completes each season without incident.
He has yet to prove himself trustworthy. I would offer minimal money up front (4 million can get you in a heap of trouble) with bonuses at seasons end. Keep him hungry...
We are trying to build a team, a Gordon is too much of a distraction...
Best scenario IMHO, trade him to a team that can manage all this fuss, and draft or sign a WR.
Do we have to pay him now or trade him now? Lost in all the posts, I can't remember when his contract expires. I thought he was under contract for the upcoming season. Is that incorrect? Because if it isn't, I wouldn't do anything in regards to a new contract just yet.
Per NFL rules, the Browns can (and will, unless they are dumb) tag Gordon as an Exclusive Rights Free Agent (ERFA) in 2018. This designation applies to players who have less than three accrued seasons in the NFL and could be around $790,000 for a one-year deal, per Joel Corry of CBS Sports. If the Browns make an offer to an ERFA, no other team would be able to sign the player.
Assuming that Gordon plays in 2018, then he would be set to be a Restricted Free Agent (RFA) in 2019. The Browns could try to work a long-term deal out with Gordon, but let’s say that Gordon kind of wants to get to free agency as soon as possible. At the same time, if the Browns don’t want to risk losing Gordon (especially with no compensation) just yet, they would slap a 1st- or 2nd-round tender on him. The numbers will jump by 2019, but a 1st-round tender seems likely, which could be a 1-year deal around $5 million. If no team coughs up a first round pick for Gordon, he’d stay with the Browns through 2019.
Then, finally, Gordon would be an unrestricted free agent in 2020 — eight years after he was first drafted!
Per NFL rules, the Browns can (and will, unless they are dumb) tag Gordon as an Exclusive Rights Free Agent (ERFA) in 2018. This designation applies to players who have less than three accrued seasons in the NFL and could be around $790,000 for a one-year deal, per Joel Corry of CBS Sports. If the Browns make an offer to an ERFA, no other team would be able to sign the player.
Assuming that Gordon plays in 2018, then he would be set to be a Restricted Free Agent (RFA) in 2019. The Browns could try to work a long-term deal out with Gordon, but let’s say that Gordon kind of wants to get to free agency as soon as possible. At the same time, if the Browns don’t want to risk losing Gordon (especially with no compensation) just yet, they would slap a 1st- or 2nd-round tender on him. The numbers will jump by 2019, but a 1st-round tender seems likely, which could be a 1-year deal around $5 million. If no team coughs up a first round pick for Gordon, he’d stay with the Browns through 2019.
Then, finally, Gordon would be an unrestricted free agent in 2020 — eight years after he was first drafted!
Basically... it sounds like the soul of Josh Gordon, as it relates to playing in the NFL, belongs to Browns and only the Browns for the years being if he manages to not mess up. Big if... and a highly doubtful one at that.
On the ThomaHawk podcast they talked Johnny Manziel (the whole podcast is definitely worth a listen) and the subject of Josh Gordon came up. Joe Thomas said that the coaches and players that weren't with the team when Gordon was last with the team didn't believe the stories of how he used to be because of how hard he worked and how high is character was.
On the ThomaHawk podcast they talked Johnny Manziel (the whole podcast is definitely worth a listen) and the subject of Josh Gordon came up. Joe Thomas said that the coaches and players that weren't with the team when Gordon was last with the team didn't believe the stories of how he used to be because of how hard he worked and how high is character was.
I've followed Josh for a long time on Instagram, and just judging by the posts and how they have changed, IMO, shows a new dedication to football. I think the corner has been turned by him. I hope I'm right.
If this kid stays clean, he could be one of the best, and I think he actually realizes this now.
As far as the Browns owning him, they should. They have put a lot of effort into him, he owes them. He is in a position to make a lot of money, and create a huge success story. If he does this right, it would be a hell of a story.
I wouldn't waste 10 seconds listening to what JM has to say. Seriously, who cares?
I said it somewhere else, but Manziel has always sounded like he "gets it" and never shown that he has.
Tough to believe him anymore
He was super smooth with wording and when mics were in front of him, but stupid and childish all other times. I can safely say that I'm irritated seeing his name in the headlines over these past month or so. He doesn't deserve a lick of the time/attention given to him, even if he has somehow managed to wake up. It's too late for an apology. We'll forever be the dumb team that neglected all the warning signs relating to that train wreck. Waste.
People face demons all the time in life. I try not to judge people based on their mistakes but rather how they handle them and the adversity.
I wish no ill will on Johnny. I'm disappointed in him and his time in Cleveland, but I believe he had to straighten some things out in his life, much as Gordon has. Hopefully everyone is in a better place and Johnny is a better person today than yesteryear.
I hope he makes his NFL comeback and someone gives him a shot.
I always hope for the best for everyone. I always hope that if people are having personal problems in their life, that they get them straightened out and get headed on the right track.
At the same time, when making business decisions, you have to look at their track record and the evidence of their bahavior with which to base such business decisions on. Those are two separate issues imo.
At the same time, when making business decisions, you have to look at their track record and the evidence of their bahavior with which to base such business decisions on. Those are two separate issues imo.
I agree. That's why I hope he's in a good place and someone gives him a chance. I think he realizes how difficult it is to get where he was which is why I think he said he'd sign without any guaranteed monies. I wish him the best.
I'm not going to be mad at Johnny for flaming out, he had it written all over him in college. I'm pissed that the adults in the room chose him when there were 3 franchise QBs on the board. I'm just glad that we're done with him. It was nice to hear what was happening inside the building a bit and how cool McCown is. What was really nice was hearing him apologizing for wasting Joe's seasons. Could Weeden do that? Doubtful.
Kick him an extra 300-400k, after preseason. Josh has struggled, as we all have
A small gesture can go a long way
No.
IMO you don't give him a damn thing outside the blessing to be able to play pro football after messing up after endless amount of times. The fact the commish has even let him play/reinstated should be enough of a "gesture" in my eyes.
This kid is a screw up, you wait for them not to screw up consistently before you reward them.
If he plays all season, balls out like we know he can, has no issues and looks and appears to be on the right track after the season... I'm okay with discussing a small gesture as you said.
Outside of that, you let him prove himself in an as-is bases to see if he'll do what 99% of us are waiting on him to do... screw up.
Kick him an extra 300-400k, after preseason. Josh has struggled, as we all have
A small gesture can go a long way
He basically just started drawing a salary again from his original contract. He's making more money now than he has at any point since his first season. As long as he continues to play he'll earn good money. And if he plays well, once contract time comes around, if he sticks with it, he'll be set for life. Any money problems he may have are all of his own creation, but as long as he continues to play he'll be just fine.
I was a teacher for a bit, perhaps it comes across in this way,
Well all struggle, we all stumble. If we as an organization can isolate, and embrace talent we can succeed. We can turn the other cheek, we can tan take the moral high ground and embrace talent. I believe this is the mark of coaching.
I think we can all relate to our backs being against the wall. Our demons are always relative. Demand more, while nurturing. In the grand scheme of the NFL, I don't think 300k will hurt.
Josh Gordon could very well relapse, I don't think it will happen, because I have faith in him. If he does, I will have compassion for him. We all have our own demons.
I will say with Hue's fashion in which he talks about JG and Dorsey's comments, it sounds like if Josh has a pinch of will to want to play here, he's welcomed with open arms and etc.
Guess I'll just have to deal with it. Only way JG isn't on the team is him messing up again. Uncomfortable. Like a sports car with a gas leak, sooner or later it'll catch fire.
I'm not much for tattoos but it has to be better than drugs +1
LOL,, Everytime I see one of those Tramp Stamps on the lower back of a pretty young woman, I think to myself, where is that Tat going to be when she hits 80
I have to remember that Josh has always had the ability to say all of the right things. As a Browns fan and a person who wishes the best for people, I certainly hope that Josh realizes one important thing. Your window to be a great player in the NFL is short in the grand scheme of things. After that, you'll have the rest of your life to party if you so choose.
History dictates we can't count on josh. I'm sure we all hope that changes moving forward. But if you run this team, you have to understand it's a business. That you have to consider the history here and move forward accordingly.
Don't see anything wrong with a guy wanting tattoos. I just hope all that bulk isn't from steroids of some kind. Exercise high can become a replacement for another high and can lead to getting hurt by over doing it. I just want the guy to stay healthy and clean so he can keep his life on the road to a happy life.
Guys who are addicts sometime simply swap addiction. In Godon's case I think he has become an addicted Gym Rat! Good for him as long as he is smart about it and doesn't turn into another Boston...that kid was great and then he went Arnold on his body...lol
Gordon is ripped but he seems to not be too bulky. His Abs look great. Abs btw are probably the most important muscle group for athletes. If you got young ones - start with their abs. Lots of sit ups, leg raises...even before they are old enough to left weights!
Hope he's got a good trainer. There are some good examples of athletes losing their specific skills or injuring themselves due to excessive weight training. Brady Quinn couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and Tiger Woods' back was wrecked after adding significant muscle to their frames. I worry about Lebron, but he seems to be doing it right.
I hear you. It's one of those things where the team has basically prepare as though he's not going to be there. If he stays clean and reverts back to his old form, it's a bonus.
Guys who are addicts sometime simply swap addiction. In Godon's case I think he has become an addicted Gym Rat! Good for him as long as he is smart about it and doesn't turn into another Boston...that kid was great and then he went Arnold on his body...lol
Gordon is ripped but he seems to not be too bulky. His Abs look great. Abs btw are probably the most important muscle group for athletes. If you got young ones - start with their abs. Lots of sit ups, leg raises...even before they are old enough to left weights!
Best thing for speed is the build up of the core!
Keep in mind that weight training is only one factor. David Boston's 'transformation' surely had more to do with pharmaceuticals than it did training. He was one of the most obvious cases you'll ever see in sports.
i dont know if thats the case with Gordon, though.
remember, this guy has been showing how ripped he is for a few years now.
also, with juicing, you're more prone to injury (see Cushing from the texans), and gordon has never been injured (not that he's played a lot, but when he does, he doesn't get hurt).
we've seen gordon post pics of him being shredded since 2013.
I wouldn't go out of my way to say Gordon is on anything. He might be (professional sports are extremely dirty and the NFL drug testing regimen isn't exactly WADA), but he very well might not be. So you give him the benefit of the doubt. It's probably just elite physical genetics + hard work. Boston was different.
I always hold my breath when I open a Josh thread. Hope for the best for him and for the Browns, but I believe it is a fragile thing. Some success will help.
I always hold my breath when I open a Josh thread. Hope for the best for him and for the Browns, but I believe it is a fragile thing. Some success will help.
Once the season finally rolls around, I'll feel a little more confident in Gordon staying clean.
I always hold my breath when I open a Josh thread. Hope for the best for him and for the Browns, but I believe it is a fragile thing. Some success will help.
Once the season finally rolls around, I'll feel a little more confident in Gordon staying clean.
I always hold my breath when I open a Josh thread. Hope for the best for him and for the Browns, but I believe it is a fragile thing. Some success will help.
A little while ago, on the main site (https://www.dawgtalkers.net) where there's a view into the other forums, I saw a thread titled something like: Former Brown Josh...
and I'm thinking, what the heck did Gordon do to become a former Brown, after we stuck with the guy all these years? (It was actually a thread about Josh Cribbs.)
That's what I meant. I see his name on a thread and have to hotwire my heart to read it. Josh Cribbs thing is kinda funny, maybe, but fingers crossed through the season for Gordon. I wish him luck, and glad to hear he is working hard.
Doesn't make opening the bloody threads like this easier.
Well this is turning up in my theme for 2018, everything is finally turning up roses for our Browns!
Timing is everything. He plays the entire season for the first time since when? We actually have a QB he is going to get monster numbers.
He is be a RFA next season so that we will Tender him and surely somebody will make an offer hopefully it will be the tender that gets us a First Round pick if we choose not to match the signed contract. Although I really think the kid has finally seen the LIGHT!
Weed is not that hard to beat. I remember Freshman year in college...All these kids nick named "Space Man" and so forth. One by one instead of flunking out of college just stopped cold turkey usually after break time and they came back with their heads hanging as their parents brought them in with new Hair cuts and all!
Nobody can tell me that these guys can't quit. They simply have to want to.
I think Gordon now WANTS to. Don't know what he'll do after his football career. But I got a feeling he will mature and because of his decision to just say NO he will be set for life!
Eo, I follow him on Instagram, and see him a lot on social media, and I think he's finally come around. He has some kind of clothing thing going, with "Flash" theme. Tee shirts, sweats, and stuff like that. But most of his posts are him working out. That hasn't always been the case with him. The whole thing seems different, like he finally realizes what he could achieve, and the money he is going to make.
New addiction making money, and creating a career for himself again on the field. If this kid stays straight, he is going to be very good, and make huge money. Hope he does it.
Eo, I follow him on Instagram, and see him a lot on social media, and I think he's finally come around. He has some kind of clothing thing going, with "Flash" theme. Tee shirts, sweats, and stuff like that. But most of his posts are him working out. That hasn't always been the case with him. The whole thing seems different, like he finally realizes what he could achieve, and the money he is going to make.
New addiction making money, and creating a career for himself again on the field. If this kid stays straight, he is going to be very good, and make huge money. Hope he does it.
Maybe Karlos Dansby taught him something... didn't that dude have a male soap, cologne and etc line?
All that dude does now is watch anime and workout. Today he posted an instagram video of him working out in Berea. OTAs are only a few weeks away too. I cannot wait to see what he can do this year.
Want to....maybe, Gordon has stepped up to the plate BECAUSE he's a parent....hope he MARRIES somebody, preferably the Mother of his child... or is it children.....hope he provides for the children he's fathered....AND remains in their lives....he won't make the money he can thru football selling cars....bottomline, I pray he's good father and plays good to great football to provide for his family......GO Browns!!!!
You guys all make valid points in attempting to justify the hopeful new condition/mindset of Josh Gordon... no sarcasm whatsoever - but the second I start to lean your guy's way, accept the points being made, I just can't. I think JG has scarred me lol.
I just can't trust him or buy into him. At least I'm NOT rooting for him being traded or axed anymore, so give me some slack.
I've hated on Gordon, he has/did let himself and all Cleveland Browns fans down....can't change the past....hopefully, he's turned the corner, will be good parent.....and citizen, wishing him all the best.....GO Browns!!!!
As I would like to wish on any human struggling with life. Not just Josh but I'd like to believe that anybody who WANTS to turn the corner can. Quite possibly Josh has.
He was caught-up in a circle of friends he'd had all his life going back to childhood. He couldn't break free of that because he didn't want to. I think now maybe he has moved away from that.
While you do have a point, to this juncture that talent has kept himself sidelined more than he's kept himself on the field. There's a huge risk/reward consideration when it comes to Josh.
After his rookie year ... i told a good friend of mine thats a 9er fan ... he told me he wished they’d trade for him ... i told him he’d regret it if they did ...
If Josh can stay straight ... and thats a HUGE IF ... at this point ... i think trading him would be MORONIC ...
His upside is off the charts ... and if he gets caught again we won’t have to worry about him anymore ... he’ll be out of the league for good ....
So at this point ... with his upside ... i’d Keep him right here ...
whats the risk? he gets suspended again and we don't have to pay him?
bro im just tired of seeing the few talented players we get here in cleveland go to other teams and ball out.
dawson Ward Gipson Mack Gabriel Sheard
at some point we gotta keep talent here. and atleast Gordon made it back, unlike justin blackmon.
lol, Gabriel is not like the others. He had one decent season. The next year wasn't good. Then, he was cut in training camp. Taylor Gabriel is a solid WR for Kyle Shannahan. He hasn't been solid for anyone else
EDIT: I'm incorrect. He was mediocre last season.
But I maintain, his season with DeFilipo as OC here, he sucked. He wasn't looking good in training camp when Hue Jackson had just become coach either. He was injured and dropping passes if I remember correctly
why would you trade the most talented WR on the roster?
hell, one of the most talented players in the league?
we're an 0-16 team. getting rid of talent is something we do not have the luxury of doing.
This will probably make you throw up in your mouth a bit, but I agree with you.
Why trade what could be a great player/has been a great player (when he's played).
He's ours. He screws up again, he's done in the nfl forever (more than likely) Big deal. Trade him, he stays true to what he has been/will be, what do we get? A draft pick.
I really wasn't advocating trading him, but I can see how an argument could be made for it.
IF this FO felt the odds of him being suspended again was high, it would make sense to get something for him now rather than come up empty handed later.
However, I would want a lot based on his talent and I can't see anyone in their right mind giving us what I would want for him based on his track record and being only one strike away from being banned from the league.
And Swish, no other player that has ever been on this team has put themselves in the position Gordon has. I understand what you're saying and really don't disagree with you. But Gordon has placed himself where he is in concerns of being questioned about his future.
We should rename this thread, because it does have a negative connotation. No need to stress people, this is positivity.
I will triple down my faith for JG, you guys need not worry about #12, and it's pretty simple to me. He is 26 years old, and a young 26 at that. We were all there at some point, some form or fashion. I believe he has matured, and will become the player we know he can be.
Sometimes we need to take a leap of faith. We have every reason to be skeptical, I'm giving you a reason to believe.
Yeah, it's all hype, but man - it's easy to marvel at the sheer talent. When you watch what Josh Gordon does well, it goes well beyond the freekish athleticism. Try to watch this vid and just focus on how well he tracks the football (uncanny), especially while leading his defender to a false sense of security. He make's some "body catches" while being so nonchalant that the defender doesn't realize the pass is coming. He initiates play on the football, contact with the defender, etc... All this and plays an economic brand of "veteran" type ball... Taking his 35 yd gain instead of taking contact to try to make it 38, etc...
Truly a special player, I hope we get to watch him quickly rise to his pinnacle. There's no question in the talent department.
Yeah, it's all hype, but man - it's easy to marvel at the sheer talent. When you watch what Josh Gordon does well, it goes well beyond the freekish athleticism. Try to watch this vid and just focus on how well he tracks the football (uncanny), especially while leading his defender to a false sense of security. He make's some "body catches" while being so nonchalant that the defender doesn't realize the pass is coming. He initiates play on the football, contact with the defender, etc... All this and plays an economic brand of "veteran" type ball... Taking his 35 yd gain instead of taking contact to try to make it 38, etc...
Truly a special player, I hope we get to watch him quickly rise to his pinnacle. There's no question in the talent department.
Wow, that was fun to watch. Forgot how good he was. We just need a QB who can get him the ball. With Jarvis and Coleman, things should really open up for Tyrod. Go Browns.
I still believe that the reward part of the equation will help him get grooved in. Plenty of the stick (self-inflicted!), but the carrot part is what it is about. Be about your business and be a man doing it. He has shed some of the problem people.
JG still has a ton to prove on the field and off. I have trashed him, but I am pulling for him as well.
This kid could be one of the best ever. Those wanting to dispose of him are fools. He is playing for peanuts, and if he stays straight, will be worth the money he demands.
and he's in much better shape now. Needs to work on stamina.
Well, you know the old saying... there's being in shape and then there's "game shape". No question though, he's always been in shape and is a workout junkie. Stamina? I think people may always be a bit miffed that he doesn't run back to the huddle and seems to take a few plays off... I think that's mostly just Josh and not necessarily "stamina". But yeah, Josh... it's time to put 100% into being ready to "ball".
After his rookie year ... i told a good friend of mine thats a 9er fan ... he told me he wished they’d trade for him ... i told him he’d regret it if they did ...
If Josh can stay straight ... and thats a HUGE IF ... at this point ... i think trading him would be MORONIC ...
His upside is off the charts ... and if he gets caught again we won’t have to worry about him anymore ... he’ll be out of the league for good ....
So at this point ... with his upside ... i’d Keep him right here ...
Agreed. 100%
The raw talent is like nothing we've had in decades.
Another thing to add to your list: if he flames out again, we're still only on the hook for his rookie contract- a hit Browns can afford to take.
I'll say one other thing: I'd love nothing better than to see this kid's story turn out well. And not just for the Browns, though that would be huge. One of my favorite human interest themes is 'redemption'... when the subject rises from disappointment/personal failings to reach success. Ordinary people can get inspiration from those stories.
Dude's still a huge gamble. This 'new him' is uncharted waters for all of us so I don't blame any folks who are still skeptical.
#fingerscrossed
p.s. When I clicked on this thread, it said '36 unread.' My heart seized up just like Bard's.
While you do have a point, to this juncture that talent has kept himself sidelined more than he's kept himself on the field. There's a huge risk/reward consideration when it comes to Josh.
Which is exactly why nobody in their right mind would give us a first or second for him... maybe if he toes the line and balls out this year, that might be an offer next year... but if he does that, then why trade him?
whats the risk? he gets suspended again and we don't have to pay him?
Pretty simpele. The risk is.... if he's suspended again he's gone forever and we lost out on high draft pick in the 2018 draft.
This years wr pool looks really good. May as well get on track with some fresh new blood that hasn't screwed us up big time like Josh has and is a risk to do it again. It's the best time to get something for Josh and to cut him loose before that happens again. He gets a fresh start and so do we.
Which is exactly why nobody in their right mind would give us a first or second for him...
Not true. He'd bring interest in the 2nd or possibly 1st rd if the FO plays their cards right with Josh. They need to let other teams know we're shopping him to let him have a fresh start elsewhere. Too much water under the bridge is all.
While you do have a point, to this juncture that talent has kept himself sidelined more than he's kept himself on the field. There's a huge risk/reward consideration when it comes to Josh.
Which is exactly why nobody in their right mind would give us a first or second for him... maybe if he toes the line and balls out this year, that might be an offer next year... but if he does that, then why trade him?
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
Right now, a 4th sounds about right.
I disagree, I think a team like NE or any team that is close to a Super Bowl would offer a #1 right now ... JMHO
Well, it is water under the bridge. If the kid is clean this long and can perform on the field, there's no reason not to make an offer this season (based on his availability, of course). That was a second round pick SIX years ago. When I look at the squandered talent and draft picks, I'm fine with going all in on potential HOF talent.
whats the risk? he gets suspended again and we don't have to pay him?
Pretty simpele. The risk is.... if he's suspended again he's gone forever and we lost out on high draft pick in the 2018 draft.
This years wr pool looks really good. May as well get on track with some fresh new blood that hasn't screwed us up big time like Josh has and is a risk to do it again. It's the best time to get something for Josh and to cut him loose before that happens again. He gets a fresh start and so do we.
That still doesn't mean we dump Gordon or not draft a receiver.
If we stand pat, we aren't drafting a receiver there.
We would draft one in the 2nd round, or later in the first with sort of trade.
I think we do sign a receiver. I doubt we are able to sign both Gordon and Landry. Both are going to seek major contracts. We will have to fill the void for one of them...if not both.
Let's say we stand pat and have to go in to the 2nd round. My guess is at that point we draft the best receiver and go and probably back. I am think Dorsey has to give up something. With all the DBs we drafted, he may seek one later, but is willing to go in to the season pretty much with what we have.
Then again, it is a deep RB class. Maybe we go corner early, then use that last 3nd rounder for a back. We do have the ability to move up from pick 64, maybe up towards the 50th pick
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
Right now, a 4th sounds about right.
Well if he's suspended, I'm not sure we can trade him. So he's worthless if he gets suspended. Also why would a team trade a first round pick for a 27 year old wr with 1 year left on his contract and is one suspension away from having to retire? The NFL is a risk averse business.
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
Right now, a 4th sounds about right.
Well if he's suspended, I'm not sure we can trade him. So he's worthless if he gets suspended. Also why would a team trade a first round pick for a 27 year old wr with 1 year left on his contract and is one suspension away from having to retire? The NFL is a risk averse business.
Same reason a team might consider (2) 1st round picks for a prima donna problem child whose most recent pic was in a hotel room with a hooker and blow...
I would take a receiver in the 2nd or possibly trade back into the 1st. I would try to trade Gordon as I have said in the past. You can't trust him to stay clean, give 100% on every play or to not become a distraction. I remember Gordon loafing through routes and not fighting for the ball when Hoyer was our QB.
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
Right now, a 4th sounds about right.
Well if he's suspended, I'm not sure we can trade him. So he's worthless if he gets suspended. Also why would a team trade a first round pick for a 27 year old wr with 1 year left on his contract and is one suspension away from having to retire? The NFL is a risk averse business.
Same reason a team might consider (2) 1st round picks for a prima donna problem child whose most recent pic was in a hotel room with a hooker and blow...
Exactly why no one has considered that offer! Although OBJ's situation is different, because he won't be reprimanded for his picture and as long as he's clean the one time a year he gets tested, he won't be suspended in any way. Also if he were to pee dirty he would only have a 2 game suspension instead of being out a year.
People are crazy if they think Gordon will be traded. For Gordon to be worth a 2nd he'll have to have an all-pro year, at which point he's a RFA and can be tendered with a pick. Get off this trade Gordon train and wish the dude the best.
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
Right now, a 4th sounds about right.
Well if he's suspended, I'm not sure we can trade him. So he's worthless if he gets suspended. Also why would a team trade a first round pick for a 27 year old wr with 1 year left on his contract and is one suspension away from having to retire? The NFL is a risk averse business.
Same reason a team might consider (2) 1st round picks for a prima donna problem child whose most recent pic was in a hotel room with a hooker and blow...
Exactly why no one has considered that offer! Although OBJ's situation is different, because he won't be reprimanded for his picture and as long as he's clean the one time a year he gets tested, he won't be suspended in any way. Also if he were to pee dirty he would only have a 2 game suspension instead of being out a year.
People are crazy if they think Gordon will be traded. For Gordon to be worth a 2nd he'll have to have an all-pro year, at which point he's a RFA and can be tendered with a pick. Get off this trade Gordon train and wish the dude the best.
i dont know... banner had a deal worked out for a 2nd for the thug... but then again banner got a 1rst for trent lmao
A couple of 200 yard plus games and he's worth a 1st rounder plus again. Another failed test and we'd be hard pressed to get a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
Right now, a 4th sounds about right.
Well if he's suspended, I'm not sure we can trade him. So he's worthless if he gets suspended. Also why would a team trade a first round pick for a 27 year old wr with 1 year left on his contract and is one suspension away from having to retire? The NFL is a risk averse business.
Same reason a team might consider (2) 1st round picks for a prima donna problem child whose most recent pic was in a hotel room with a hooker and blow...
Exactly why no one has considered that offer! Although OBJ's situation is different, because he won't be reprimanded for his picture and as long as he's clean the one time a year he gets tested, he won't be suspended in any way. Also if he were to pee dirty he would only have a 2 game suspension instead of being out a year.
People are crazy if they think Gordon will be traded. For Gordon to be worth a 2nd he'll have to have an all-pro year, at which point he's a RFA and can be tendered with a pick. Get off this trade Gordon train and wish the dude the best.
Me? I ain't on the trade Gordon train. No way in hell I'd trade him. If he had an all-pro year, I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd OR a first... okay, maybe top 5 first. We've invested this much time and energy, I'm keeping him here until I can't afford him or he gets busted.
For us to get a first or second, we'd need to play Josh for the season which would entail:
1. He doesn't screw up again and is serviceable all season. 2. He actually plays like we all know he can.
... as of current, yeah I see a possible 3rd at most given up for a star but troubled player. Jmo.
I still say there's a team out there that would give up more. Any GM worth his weight could make it happen.
Then I hope JD is listening/taking the calls. I just believe the staff is committed to Josh and his progress made with rehab now. I think Hue, for one, is completely behind him. I don't think anything short of insane would make JD want to move Gordon and away from Haley's scheme/playbooks.
So let me get this straight he's still young we have kept him all these years and this is the best he looks like he's going to make. And some are saying trade him NOW,!?
The kid is every bit as good as OBJ...worth the risk as little it seems to be.
So let me get this straight he's still young we have kept him all these years and this is the best he looks like he's going to make. And some are saying trade him NOW,!?
The kid is every bit as good as OBJ...worth the risk as little it seems to be.
Gordon has good has OBJ.... LOL
Gordon is a distraction to the team. He has done much more harm than good,hope he changes, but it was evident by the end of the season that he didn't.
His behavior on the field is, IMHO, inexcusable.
OBJ is a future HOFER, great player, great attitude on the field.
What? OBJ's antics on and off the field are the reasons the Giants are even considering trading him.The owners have said he has been an embarrassment to the franchise. You don't like Gordon and want him traded,fine.OBJ is a generational talent,but his distractions are beginning to out weigh his talents.
So let me get this straight he's still young we have kept him all these years and this is the best he looks like he's going to make. And some are saying trade him NOW,!?
The kid is every bit as good as OBJ...worth the risk as little it seems to be.
Gordon has good has OBJ.... LOL
Gordon is a distraction to the team. He has done much more harm than good,hope he changes, but it was evident by the end of the season that he didn't.
His behavior on the field is, IMHO, inexcusable.
OBJ is a future HOFER, great player, great attitude on the field.
What did Gordon do the end of last season ?? Smoking weed ?? Drinking ?? Tearing up rental properties with Manziel ??
Talking about his attitude on the field, not is off-field attitude.
He came up strong on the first games, but then he was absent,played like he didn't care..
That is my impression, I never liked him, his attitude, and how his starting position was just given, so I may be biased. But a player that did what he did, came up to play and practice under the influence, has much to prove.
I would gladly trade or cut him, don't think a 1-31 team has to put up with this type of players,no matter how much potential they have.
OBJ is a whole different type of player, comparing him to Gordon is absurd.
Talking about his attitude on the field, not is off-field attitude.
He came up strong on the first games, but then he was absent,played like he didn't care..
That is my impression, I never liked him, his attitude, and how his starting position was just given, so I may be biased. But a player that did what he did, came up to play and practice under the influence, has much to prove.
I would gladly trade or cut him, don't think a 1-31 team has to put up with this type of players,no matter how much potential they have.
OBJ is a whole different type of player, comparing him to Gordon is absurd.
Wanting to trade or cut Gordon is absurd. Like it or not, he is good at what he does. We need people who are good at what they do. Just as in any occupation, if you are one of the best at what you do are going to get more leniency than other employees. We've held on to him for this long, it's worth the risk. We lose nothing by keeping him even if he screws up. Sure, maybe a draft pick, but I'm tired of draft picks - I want good players, and he is one of them. It's not like he's out abusing women, killing people, or getting in fights. He smokes some weed and is (hopefully WAS) an idiot about it.
Talking about his attitude on the field, not is off-field attitude.
He came up strong on the first games, but then he was absent,played like he didn't care..
That is my impression, I never liked him, his attitude, and how his starting position was just given, so I may be biased. But a player that did what he did, came up to play and practice under the influence, has much to prove.
I would gladly trade or cut him, don't think a 1-31 team has to put up with this type of players,no matter how much potential they have.
OBJ is a whole different type of player, comparing him to Gordon is absurd.
IIRC, he said he carried a gun, but never actually did a drive-by... feel free to correct me here. If my memory is correct, I'd also argue this is not splitting hairs.
Shifting focus... through the lens of playing on an NFL football team, Gordon and OBJ are more similar than some are willing to admit. I think their hate for Gordon and the roller coaster he's taken us on has blinded them. Gordon and OBJ are both generational talents. OBJ has been smarter than Gordon up until now in that he hasn't been busted over and over (and over) again, but he causes problems on the field... he's a headcase. In the end, the result is the same... Giants are looking into trading OBJ (generational talent that he is), just like we were with Gordon a little bit ago.
Trouble is, OBJ is due to be paid now. We have Gordon on the cheap for the next year or so.
Hey' I'm all for "comparing and contrasting"... til you're coming from the angle of "OBJ - future HOFer... Josh Grodon - should be cut".
Drugs? Carrying a gun? Welcome to the world of 25% of the players in professional sports. This discussion has now turned to things he did when he was 15-16 years old, growing up in the ghetto. Is he WR or a presidential candidate?
It never ceases to amaze me how most everyone posting here would like this team to run a lot like how BB runs the Patriots. But never wants a BB like decision to be made.
It never ceases to amaze me how most everyone posting here would like this team to run a lot like how BB runs the Patriots. But never wants a BB like decision to be made.
It never ceases to amaze me how most everyone posting here would like this team to run a lot like how BB runs the Patriots. But never wants a BB like decision to be made.
Yet BB is famous for pulling in the leagues "ne'er do wells" and making them get their acts together. If this was a BB led team - Gordon would have been put on the straight and narrow from the first suspension. If this were the Patriots - he would have taken a hard look at what he could lose. We're neither, yet... it's a work in progress and a long distance from point A to point B. No way Bill would cut Gordon if he were the coach of the 0-16 Browns.
It never ceases to amaze me how most everyone posting here would like this team to run a lot like how BB runs the Patriots. But never wants a BB like decision to be made.
Yet BB is famous for pulling in the leagues "ne'er do wells" and making them get their acts together. If this was a BB led team - Gordon would have been put on the straight and narrow from the first suspension. If this were the Patriots - he would have taken a hard look at what he could lose. We're neither, yet... it's a work in progress and a long distance from point A to point B. No way Bill would cut Gordon if he were the coach of the 0-16 Browns.
BB would have cut him for being late to meeting, halfass in practice and in the game... and not running his routs right. as simple as that.
My $0.02... all the pessimists are bringing up everything he's done and pointing at the past, but refusing to look at what he's doing here, now, in the present.
People DO change. People DO get their act together.
My $0.02... all the pessimists are bringing up everything he's done and pointing at the past, but refusing to look at what he's doing here, now, in the present.
People DO change. People DO get their act together.
I agree. Some people mature at different ages. Some people make mistakes and make changes, yet some people want to continue to hold things against people.
I don't get it. Believe in God or not, that's just wrong by any standard of belief.
No wonder Ex-Cons have such a hard time. Nobody is willing to give them a chance. How long does it take to go hungry before they start stealing food or money?
In fairy tale land where the ferries serve alcohol, Josh plays balls out in Haley's scheme this season. John rewards him, and Landry, financially. Him and Landry go on to become a killer combo for the years to come.
My buddy and I were talking about this very thing today. I'm on board with it. Totally on board. Juice and Flash, Flash and Juice... oh my. But we could very well reward them and be set still for others, including a rookie QB going to need extended in the years to come.
Its by far the BEST SHOT and CLOSEST we’ve been to a fairy tale ..
The TALENTS THERE .... i really really like Landry .... this is still a fairy tale at this point .... but it is VERY REALISTIC ... the TALENT IS THERE ...
Their is a CRAP TON to be EXCITED about this year ....
TABBER - ... after all these years .... U AND I FINALLY AGREE ....
Your OPTIMISM and my REALISM line up my brother ...
In fairy tale land where the ferries serve alcohol, Josh plays balls out in Haley's scheme this season. John rewards him, and Landry, financially. Him and Landry go on to become a killer combo for the years to come.
My buddy and I were talking about this very thing today. I'm on board with it. Totally on board. Juice and Flash, Flash and Juice... oh my. But we could very well reward them and be set still for others, including a rookie QB going to need extended in the years to come.
Fairy tale?
As long as it isn't Gin and Juice, this should be a good combo!
yep.. talent wise. And Gordon has his drug thing but OBJ can't stay on the field due to injuries.
How is Gordon a distraction to the team. Just what is he doint to distract
he has done more harm than good. Well that's the past, I thought we were talking about the present.
His behavior on the field is inexcusable??? can you elaborate on that.
OBJ far not HOFer yet. Great attitude on the field...lol what Giant games have you seen. Remember the fist a cuffs play by play with Norman?
dillusional...lol but you and your bud ed can have him.
No way for the Browns.
Gordon will be just fine.
How is Gordon a distraction to the team, lets see...
Talking about how he used to play and practice under the influence.. and when I say talking it was more bragging than talking..
Then all the media posts with the cb, after having a game where he did almost nothing...
Being named the starter, after missing pre-season and most of the season, with no practice at all.
We are a 1-31 team,and I continue to say, not only we don't need players like him, but to reward his behavior by giving him the starting position, talks volumes about Hue.
Or speaks volumes about the talent Gordon possesses, if he's best WR in league stoned, what can he be if he wants it. I NEVER advocated for Gordon during his cough syrup/alcohol/weed days/years....BUT clean/rehab PARENT Gordon could be fabulous and it has NOTHING to do with HUE.....GO Browns!!!
My $0.02... all the pessimists are bringing up everything he's done and pointing at the past, but refusing to look at what he's doing here, now, in the present.
People DO change. People DO get their act together.
I hear you Purp. But it's not just about getting his act together. His shelf life is running out. His trade value could be the highest it's ever going to be. What if he has a crap season or get's hurt? WR's aren't exactly bullet proof?
To be fair, he's said he's gotten his act together before... only to fall right off the wagon again.
That said... all this conversation comes down to is the potential risk to keeping him on the team. And the simple fact is that there is none. He's cheap, and he's not going to get expensive until another 1-2 (?) years. There's no risk.
In the draft and FA, you act like you won't have him and you continue to try to upgrade the position as much as possible. You don't just give him the position (even though it may have seemed that way last year because his competition on the roster has been so poor).
My $0.02... all the pessimists are bringing up everything he's done and pointing at the past, but refusing to look at what he's doing here, now, in the present.
People DO change. People DO get their act together.
I hear you Purp. But it's not just about getting his act together. His shelf life is running out. His trade value could be the highest it's ever going to be. What if he has a crap season or get's hurt? WR's aren't exactly bullet proof?
I think people wish to take some others totally out of context. Things like not giving Josh a chance or saying people act like he can't change are negative about him. I think that's totally off base.
The NFL is a business. Josh has a history. Business moves are made based on probability. Risk verses reward. None of that is based on a personal slant. Those decisions aren't decided on an island.
People also try to indicate that we would have nothing to lose if we keep him. Not so long ago Sashi basically paid 15 million dollars for a second round draft pick. Most posters applauded that move. Now, suddenly, getting a second round pick for Josh is called nothing? lol
Here's what I'm sure this FO is weighing. Josh has said all of the right things many times before. So his words hold no value. After saying all of the right things several times, he has continued to do all of the wrong things. So here is the conundrum.
Do we risk Josh getting suspended again and being out of the NFL based on his future potential? Getting nothing out of him at all? Or do we get something guaranteed out of him in the form of say a second round draft pick. (fans agreed was worth 15 million dollars)
Now I wouldn't trade Josh for a second round draft pick. But I think people are blind if they can't see the risk involved in keeping him and him continuing a pattern he has shown thus far throughout his entire time in football since the NCAA.
Keeping him or trading him both have a risk/reward factor.
Based on comments from Browns G.M. John Dorsey to PFT Live at the Scouting Combine, it sounds like the Browns will.
“I think Josh Gordon is a physical freak,” Dorsey said in the interview, as partially transcribed by Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal. “I’ve sat down and talked to him, had numerous conversations, and my message to Josh Gordon is, ‘You know what? As long as you’re behind the Cleveland Browns 100 percent, I’m 100 percent behind Josh Gordon.’
“That’s my mindset. He and I have communicated, and there’s some things that I’ve helped him with and we’ve sat and discussed. But right now, I love where he is right now. I think he’s in a good place right now, but we’ll see how this thing moves forward.”
My $0.02... all the pessimists are bringing up everything he's done and pointing at the past, but refusing to look at what he's doing here, now, in the present.
People DO change. People DO get their act together.
AMEN, Hallelujah, damn right, and you bet your ass they do
J/C Josh Gordon could be one of the best receivers in the league.
We have to gamble on that. I understand the caution, history. The dude is a freak. He has produced.
Success is never attained by being meek. I think trading him would be a bad move. He’s one of the few legitimately super talented guys we have. It’s one of the only things Heckert got right SMH.
Agreed. Josh says he has changed and wants to play. Let's give him a fresh start and judge him on what he does from here on out. I would want the same consideration and we should give it to him too.
The thing is, when his contract is finally up, and it's time to pay him (assuming he's still playing like a beast), or let him go... that's when the conversation really gets interesting.
I can get behind keeping him around on the roster on his rookie deal competing against the fringe-NFL talent we've historically had on the roster for playing time. But it becomes a whole different discussion when you add a new contract to the decision-making process.
As of now, we have done plenty to abide with JG. He has much to show us and a lot to back up. We have shown we want that. New contract terms are going to be "written" on the field and off. Earn it, and good luck. Do not blow this.
Based on comments from Browns G.M. John Dorsey to PFT Live at the Scouting Combine, it sounds like the Browns will.
“I think Josh Gordon is a physical freak,” Dorsey said in the interview, as partially transcribed by Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon Journal. “I’ve sat down and talked to him, had numerous conversations, and my message to Josh Gordon is, ‘You know what? As long as you’re behind the Cleveland Browns 100 percent, I’m 100 percent behind Josh Gordon.’
“That’s my mindset. He and I have communicated, and there’s some things that I’ve helped him with and we’ve sat and discussed. But right now, I love where he is right now. I think he’s in a good place right now, but we’ll see how this thing moves forward.”
Combined with the things Hue has said, I think the staff is 100% prepared to support and move forward with Josh as a Brown. Like it, love it, hate it, don't really care... that seems like the way it is now and will be.
Super talented player at very little money. Trading him would be foolish at this point. Those wanting to dump him are living in the past. He is, IMO, no risk at this point. His salary is low, and his talent is high. If he fails, we lose nothing.
To think they would ignore the WR position in the draft because he is on the roster is shortsighted if you ask me. We have professionals in the FO now, I'm sure they are looking at the situation with the team in mind, not just Josh's career.
If he has turned the corner for real, and we trade him now, it would be one more blunder for this organization. He has showed the talent he possesses, overlooking that because of his past failures would be foolish.
Anybody who thinks a clean and sober Josh Gordon, can be replaced by a second round draft pick is living in fantasy land. There is a reason the organization has stuck with him this long, it is called rare talent.
Anybody who thinks a clean and sober Josh Gordon, can be replaced by a second round draft pick is living in fantasy land.
Anybody who thinks a stoned and alcohol buzzed Josh Gordon can be replaced by a second round draft pick is living in that same fantasy land. It seems to me that the "stuff" never messed with his ability. It's like Bill Murry said about pot, "The worst thing that can happen to you for smoking pot is getting caught with it." lol
The thing is, when his contract is finally up, and it's time to pay him (assuming he's still playing like a beast), or let him go... that's when the conversation really gets interesting.
I can get behind keeping him around on the roster on his rookie deal competing against the fringe-NFL talent we've historically had on the roster for playing time. But it becomes a whole different discussion when you add a new contract to the decision-making process.
Not really... it's the same discussion then as it is now with any other person on the roster: how have you performed vs what are you asking for. It's actually really simple and straightforward. At the worst, the team builds in language that allows them to recoup ALL money in the event that he is ever suspended for drugs/alcohol again.
I think people wish to take some others totally out of context. Things like not giving Josh a chance or saying people act like he can't change are negative about him. I think that's totally off base.
The NFL is a business. Josh has a history. Business moves are made based on probability. Risk verses reward. None of that is based on a personal slant. Those decisions aren't decided on an island.
People also try to indicate that we would have nothing to lose if we keep him. Not so long ago Sashi basically paid 15 million dollars for a second round draft pick. Most posters applauded that move. Now, suddenly, getting a second round pick for Josh is called nothing? lol
Here's what I'm sure this FO is weighing. Josh has said all of the right things many times before. So his words hold no value. After saying all of the right things several times, he has continued to do all of the wrong things. So here is the conundrum.
Do we risk Josh getting suspended again and being out of the NFL based on his future potential? Getting nothing out of him at all? Or do we get something guaranteed out of him in the form of say a second round draft pick. (fans agreed was worth 15 million dollars)
Now I wouldn't trade Josh for a second round draft pick. But I think people are blind if they can't see the risk involved in keeping him and him continuing a pattern he has shown thus far throughout his entire time in football since the NCAA.
Keeping him or trading him both have a risk/reward factor.
The risk in keeping him is exceptionally low. What we risk losing out on is next to nothing. If he gets suspended, he costs us nothing at all, and at most we lose out on whatever imagined Draft picks you think we might get for a guy who is one slip away from being out of the league forever. For that reason alone, teams will shy away from giving us large compensation - at best, it would be conditional. In both cases, what we are guaranteed to lose out on is his talent and ability to contribute to the task of pulling this team out of the damned basement.
That physical freak focused on the task of being a WR is unstoppable. There is not a WR in the draft that is close to what he is, and I would dare to say that there is not a WR in the NFL, either. He is on a different level. Randy Moss's speed blended with Terrell Owens' physique and the hands of both.
What kind of message do you send when you make a player who misses all practices, does not play the game for years, and has a history of bad behavior, your automatic starter?
What are the risks for keeping Gordon? The risk of not having a viable WR, like we did his past seasons, and the risk of depending on him for a season.
Remember when he came back some years ago and a team that performed well over its level suddenly stopped performing?
When Hoyer was forced to feed the ball to Gordon, who couldn't do anything good?
That's the main risk of keeping Gordon, alienating a team. Gordon should be seen has a backup WR, not has a starter, and never has a cornerstone for a team to build.
The point of making mistakes is learning from them....
The idea that Gordon is on the same level has OB, Julio,AB and others is completely absurd. Its like thinking Payton Hillis was better than AP...
OK. We now have 8 pages on Josh Gordon and nothing other than him sticking to his training seems to be happening. Why are so many rooting for him to fail?
OK. We now have 8 pages on Josh Gordon and nothing other than him sticking to his training seems to be happening. Why are so many rooting for him to fail?
Nobody is rooting for him to fail.
I think its just stupid for not having a plan B for his position, I also think its stupid to be sure about him, that why he should be a backup, a complement to the team, not be one of the pillars.
OK. We now have 8 pages on Josh Gordon and nothing other than him sticking to his training seems to be happening. Why are so many rooting for him to fail?
I don't think anyone is rooting for him to fail. What some are doing is refusing to ignore his history and realize the odds of his success at this point. Some are not willing to be naive in the fact Josh has always said the right thing and done the wrong thing.
Just because some are willing to take an objective look at what he's brought to the table doesn't mean they don't hope for the best.
What kind of message do you send when you make a player who misses all practices, does not play the game for years, and has a history of bad behavior, your automatic starter?
There is a message sent that is powerful and worth the risk, even if Gordon fails to complete his end of the deal.
Players in the lockerroom, especially the youngest, will look at Gordon and think about the franchise that stuck with him, backing him all the way with "unwavering support".
Even if Gordon fails, the players on the team and around the NFL will have an opinion of the Browns organization and how they stood "with" Gordon.
JMO, but the Browns management since Haslam took over hasn't exactly operated as a tightly nit family group. The Browns still have an "image" problem and Cleveland remains one of the last places some players would like to play for.
The Browns have done all they can for Gordon and regardless of how the Gordon situation turns out, players around the NFL will not forget that.
What we know is Gordon has been great so far. His reinstatement came following at least a year of sobriety. He's been back for almost six months.
That's a damn good start. His history is one thing, but constantly hanging on for an inevitable failure must be getting exhausting if you've been anticipating it this long.
Where is the cut off? Two years? Three years? Ten years? If you consider his failure "super realistic" after a year and a half of personal success, where is the point where you downgrade it to something like "marginally realistic"?
I get the feeling it's a forever thing. Which is a shame. That year and a half is something we should all be proud of Flash for. Personally, I'm putting some faith in him. He's earned it.
Where is the cut off? Where is the cut off? Two years? Three years? Ten years? If you consider his failure "super realistic" after a year and a half of personal success, where is the point where you downgrade it to something like "marginally realistic"?? Three years? Ten years? If you consider his failure "super realistic" after a year and a half of personal success, where is the point where you downgrade it to something like "marginally realistic"?
when he starts putting full effort into every play... when he starts running the right routes consistently. thats when i will believe he changed.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Josh Gordon and three others have signed their exclusive rights free agents contracts.
The others are fullback Danny Vitale, receiver Matt Hazel, and offensive lineman Austin Reiter.
Gordon, a 2013 Pro Bowler, will make $790,000 this year because of his suspension-marred NFL career. The total is the veteran minimum for a player with two accrued seasons.
It's a far cry from the five-year, $75.5 million extension Jarvis Landry signed on Friday night.
The Browns began their offseason program at their facility on Monday.
Here's some background the ERFAs from the Browns' release:
Gordon joined the Browns as a second-round pick in the 2012 supplemental draft. He has appeared in 40 games and recorded 179 receptions for 3,089 yards and 15 touchdowns. In 2013, he led the NFL with 1,646 receiving yards. He appeared in five games in 2017 and registered 18 receptions for 335 yards and one touchdown.
Hazel was signed to the Browns' active roster from Indianapolis' practice squad on Dec. 13, 2017. Originally a sixth-round pick by Miami in 2014, Hazel has appeared in nine career games.
Reiter was signed to the Browns' active roster from Washington's practice squad on Sept. 20, 2016. Originally a seventh-round pick by Washington in 2015, Reiter has appeared in 17 career games, including all 16 with the Browns in 2017.
Vitale was signed to the Browns' active roster from Tampa Bay's practice squad on Oct. 14, 2016. Originally a sixth-round pick by the Buccaneers in 2016, Vitale has appeared in 24 career games with nine starts. He appeared in 15 games with six starts last year.
Who wouldn't trade a second round pick for a guy who will become a free agent next year?
Gordon?
Unless I am sorely mistaken, he'll be an RFA next season, and if he stays clean this year, I expect the Browns to tender him at the highest level, and then work on a multi year deal.
Signing Landry to that big contract was smart on another level too. It says to Josh, keep your stuff together and you can have this and much more. If he keeps it together there's a huge long-term contract in his future.
Signing Landry to that big contract was smart on another level too. It says to Josh, keep your stuff together and you can have this and much more. If he keeps it together there's a huge long-term contract in his future.
Who wouldn't trade a second round pick for a guy who will become a free agent next year?
Thought he becomes a RFA next year.???
He does.
He has onl;y 2 accrued seasons right now. He is an ERFA, After this year, assuming that he doesn't sign an extension, and assuming that we tender him a contract next off-season, he will be an RFA next off-season.
, that I realized how conditioned we've all become.
