I like Jarvis Landry. Not sure why he takes so much criticism. The guy is told to run short routes, he does, and he absolutely dominates in that role. Good for him.
This is just like the high-production vs high-ceiling argument. The itch to have the inconsistent, flashy, down-field, player over the super-reliable, productive, consistent receiver.
Attacking Landry for his low YPR and YPT without context is wrong and flawed. Here are the NFL's top 30 targeted WRs from the past 4 years. This is their production on only balls thrown within 5 yards of the LOS. Landry's aDOT is still on low end, but he's 5th best in ypt
Quote:
Landry doesn't offer what some of these guys do down field...but he's great in the short area and only 15% of passes go 20+ yards down field.
As for "Landry's 3rd down conversation rate is low" takes...Landry ranked 15th with 39 3rd down targets last year. However, he ranked first with 22 third-down targets short of the sticks...
... 69 WRs had 20+ 3rd down targets last year and only SIX were, on average, targeted short of the sticks. Landry was, on average, targeted 2.1 yards short, which was lowest of the 69 WRs.
Look all of the recent criticism is due to his new contract. I am of the opinion that every offseason people are going to complain about the new deals. People comparing this years deals to a deal made 3 years ago is a fools errand.
The elite guys also take less risk in their contracts, they get renewed with a year sometimes two years left on their current deals. Guys getting this far, staying healthy and making it to a place where they can demand the extra cash, good for them.
I loathe the argument, well Julio Jones makes that much money and he's way better.....well guess what, Julio Jones isn't available is he? If he were, he would get a lot more and then they would be complaining about how even HE isn't worth that kind of money.
Landry's YPR is overblown. He's a high percentage slot receiver who has never been in a strong situation regarding quarterback play.
Jarvis Landry's YPR (10.1) is comparable to the likes of Wes Welker (11) who lived out his days with Brady and Manning. That position is now filled by Julian Edelman. (10.7)
Sure, he's not proven himself to be an elite burner, but let's see what he can do in a better situation (I think he'll thrive surrounded by Njoku, Gordon and Duke) and, hopefully, a better QB. (I'd hope the #1 pick ends up better than Tannehill)
With that said, Landry's game doesn't have a pressing need for evolution. He's a high-volume chain mover who keeps the ball moving on high percentage throws. It doesn't stuff the yards or fill the highlight reels, but damn if you don't notice it on game day when the chains keep moving.
I don't remember Brennan getting a lot of grief. He moved sticks and earned his keep over the middle. I am pulling for Landry to keep drives alive in every game. last year was an atrocity. This doesn't have to be the ultimate hire; help us effectively move the ball and set up more scores. It is enough progress given where we are. His numbers looked pretty solid to me.
Landry, slot or not, is one of the best receivers in the league right now. Whether he caught the ball down field does not matter. He is consistent and productive in keeping drives alive. Making tough catches on third down, and consistently moving the sticks is very high value IMO.
Guys like him, make the big name guys look better. They demand attention, that is a very valuable asset.
Landry, slot or not, is one of the best receivers in the league right now. Whether he caught the ball down field does not matter. He is consistent and productive in keeping drives alive. Making tough catches on third down, and consistently moving the sticks is very high value IMO.
Guys like him, make the big name guys look better. They demand attention, that is a very valuable asset.
let's just hope our "big man guy" stays eligible to play
Landry got paid top 5 WR money to keep him from becoming a FA ...
did we overpay? ... i dont think so ... hes not a top 5 WR ... more like around the 15 range ... hes not a true #1 with great speed and a huge frame ... hes not a threat to take it to the house everytime he touches it ....
But what HE IS ... is hes REALLY GOOD ...
- GREAT HANDS - creates separation - GREAT HANDS - great route runner ... he will be where hes suppose to be .. - GREAT HANDS - will go over the middle and make the tough catch and get the extra 1/2 yard for the first however he has to ... - GREAT HANDS - stronger runner than u think - GREAT HANDS - very quick
One last thing ... HE CATCHES THE F’NG BALL!!!!
Did we overpay .... not in my opinion ... its the NATURE OF THE BEAST ....
And he was a STEAL compared to what Watkins got ... witch fools paid hm all that money ... ...
It's easier to think about the Landry contract when you remember that 10-15 WRs will be paid over the next two years. Signing him this early has made us set the market for all the future contracts. AJ's contract is up this season, I believe, I don't think he'll be paid less than Landry for long.
I guess I never understood why what a player makes is important to a fan. I care a lot more about production.
The main reasons is that the NFL has a salary cap. You have to fit your entire team under this cap, including those put on injured reserve and the like. Unlike the NBA, the NFL's salary cap is a hard cap (kind of), which means you can't go over it. I say kind of because signing bonus money can be prorated over a number of years, essentially pushing that money into the future. But it eventually comes due.
Teams that are consistently good have to manage the salary cap in an intelligent way. This hasn't really applied to the Browns, because they haven't drafted that many good players (compared to the rest of the league) and some of them have walked in free agency. This was actually the impetus for the Brock Osweiler trade.. we essentially purchased a second round pick. At a fundamental level, the Browns just didn't have many players to spend all the cap space on whereas the Texans needed the cap relief. Differing valuations of the second round pick was a relatively lesser consideration, IMO.
All of the above is just generalities. As far as the Landry contract in particular: it's pretty steep. I'm not saying it was a bad move, but we certainly didn't catch a break on the contract.
I just think you have to understand the big picture: We're a young, talent starved team that followed 1-15 with 0-16. The head coach is still here. Our best player retired. Two of our better defensive starters were traded. Cleveland isn't exactly a destination city, especially for someone who just spent 4 years in Miami. At least for the time being, the Browns just have to accept that players aren't going to take discounts to come play here.
If we want that to happen, then we'll have to demonstrate excellence over a long period of time, then maybe the players most committed to winning will take a bit less to be team players and be part of a winning organization.
So in this case, we paid market value but signed an excellent, reliable, durable slot receiver. Keep building this team with our draft picks, cap space (or combination of the two) and maybe eventually we'll get to the point where some of that home grown talent will be willing to take less to stay with the Browns-- both for financial security reasons and because they actually like it here.
the Browns could have signed a 3rd string wr from a local community college and got more production than Britt and Bowe Landry will provide leadership and a great work ethic Bowe and Britt were here strictly for the $$$$. funny how some posters defended the signings of both those guys and made excuses for them along the way
Landry got paid top 5 WR money to keep him from becoming a FA ...
did we overpay? ... i dont think so ... hes not a top 5 WR ... more like around the 15 range ... hes not a true #1 with great speed and a huge frame ... hes not a threat to take it to the house everytime he touches it ....
But what HE IS ... is hes REALLY GOOD ...
- GREAT HANDS - creates separation - GREAT HANDS - great route runner ... he will be where hes suppose to be .. - GREAT HANDS - will go over the middle and make the tough catch and get the extra 1/2 yard for the first however he has to ... - GREAT HANDS - stronger runner than u think - GREAT HANDS - very quick
One last thing ... HE CATCHES THE F’NG BALL!!!!
Did we overpay .... not in my opinion ... its the NATURE OF THE BEAST ....
And he was a STEAL compared to what Watkins got ... witch fools paid hm all that money ... ...
Naw... we didn't overpay. We are right where the market will be while also taking into account his franchise tag. It is also a signal to other FA that we are in the business to win and win now.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
Mentioning Britt and Bowe in the same thread as Jarvis is very DISRESPECTUFL to Mr. Landry ...
I can’t even fathom how thier even remotely comparable on any level ...
Mr. Landry has accomplished more in his short career than either of those ONE HIT WONDERS ever did and Mr. Landry is ENTERING THE PRIME OF HIS CAREER ...
Mr. Landry is LEGITE ...
And u know what i really like about him just in case u missed it ....
Landrys presence probally signals the end of that awesome Sashi Brown combo of Hollywood Higgins and Ricardo Louis talk about 2 draft picks that have done nothing in 2 years
I have heard rumors that some receivers elsewhere in the NFL actually catch it regularly and score points on a weekly basis. We managed to avoid that for the most part last year.
In the past we liked to draft and sign WR that looked the part but didn't catch all that well. Thankfully, our new FO knows that being able to catch the ball is most important for a receiver.
He hasnt caught a pass but I would say he is our best receiver until proven otherwise. I think right now second would be Duke. That is sad to think about with how many receivers have come thru Cleveland recently.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
I think it is unfair to lump Bently in the group.. He was local, and the career ending knee injury on the first day of camp was disheartening to all.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
I think it is unfair to lump Bently in the group.. He was local, and the career ending knee injury on the first day of camp was disheartening to all.
If I remember correctly, he already had the injury and just faked it when he got to camp.
If I remember correctly, he already had the injury and just faked it when he got to camp.
This is the first time I've ever heard that about LeCharles.
I've heard those rumblings as well. He may have been injured playing basketball before camp but waited to "fake it" in the first drill. Why? So his contract would not be void.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
I think it is unfair to lump Bently in the group.. He was local, and the career ending knee injury on the first day of camp was disheartening to all.
Being local is irrelevant to how good or bad a signing is. And this is from a die hard OSU fan.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
I think it is unfair to lump Bently in the group.. He was local, and the career ending knee injury on the first day of camp was disheartening to all.
If I remember correctly, he already had the injury and just faked it when he got to camp.
Now how could that happen? They do physicals on these guys before they sign and again before camp. I ain't buying that. Besides, this is the first time I've heard that..
If I remember correctly, he already had the injury and just faked it when he got to camp.
This is the first time I've ever heard that about LeCharles.
I've heard those rumblings as well. He may have been injured playing basketball before camp but waited to "fake it" in the first drill. Why? So his contract would not be void.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
I think it is unfair to lump Bently in the group.. He was local, and the career ending knee injury on the first day of camp was disheartening to all.
If I remember correctly, he already had the injury and just faked it when he got to camp.
Britt and Bowe were probably the two worst FA signings in Browns history ... you might say Bentley, Rison, or somebody else ... but IMO they were inexcusable
I think it is unfair to lump Bently in the group.. He was local, and the career ending knee injury on the first day of camp was disheartening to all.
If I remember correctly, he already had the injury and just faked it when he got to camp.
Now how could that happen? They do physicals on these guys before they sign and again before camp. I ain't buying that. Besides, this is the first time I've heard that..
There was a ridiculous amount of smoke on that 'fire'. No one ever confirmed and LCB didn't admit...but...the "sources" making that claim were many.
He could have easily recovered from that injury if not for the staph.
People worry we overpay. People worry that we don't have good players.
To the overpay crowd...what should we have paid him? It's not like he was going to sign for 8 mil a year.
For me, I'll worry about overpaying guys when they aren't good players or when you are pushed up against the cap.
Neither is the case here.
With that said, which I totally agree with, the fact is Landry hasn't earned his paycheck here. We haven't even seen what he looks like in a Browns jersey.
We're very use to free agent WR with some success coming here, getting paid, and giving NOTHING in return. Paying a good player to continue to be good, in Landry's situation, would really make me feel better about paying people a lot of money and it working out, especially WR.
Last person we paid a lot of money to and it worked out was probably Joe Thomas. Bowe, Droughns, Britt, Haden, Stallworth and just many others not worth the money we paid out in extending/signing.
2. We havent had a possession WR since Joe Jerivicious, frankly Landry is much better at it.
We havent been missing the home run WR. What we have been missing is a QB to throw that homerun. What we have been missing is a WR who can get open n be there to extend drives.
Seems like a great guy, and more than that, a humble leader. His talk of TT's work ethic - first guy in, last guy to leave, is pretty inspiring as well. A lot of talent and a fresh new attitude on this team. Gonna be a fun year.
Seems like a great guy, and more than that, a humble leader. His talk of TT's work ethic - first guy in, last guy to leave, is pretty inspiring as well. A lot of talent and a fresh new attitude on this team. Gonna be a fun year.
We often hear how this is the year we start turning things around ...... but I do believe that this could well be the year it all starts. I like the adds we have made thus far, and if we make the right choice with our 1st and 2nd rounds, we could be well on the way to the road to real success.
Any top tier investment into FA will have the players over paid. Nature of the beast. But we have none players in the elite FA cause we were not ready for the "MOVE". Finally that day has arrived. No time to get squeamish about investing. As long as we play it smart. Now that we got rid of Sashi, hope we got a good bean counter to keep us on track!
The idea of having sam Darnold to throw Barkley with that crew excites to no end. if they go nickel and the cornerback are weak against the run you run right at them. if they stay in the normal aligment you have barkley and Njoku getting covered by linebackers.
Dude's not just got good hands but he's also got quick hands. Like he works slight of hand while catching. It's this smooth motion where the ball just gets snatched right out of the air and for a second it disappears and all of a sudden he's running down field.
He also fights for the ball. That's his ball and he's gonna catch it. Lots of hopping over dudes in order to make the catch. Dude looks fearless in the slot.
This is a developing quarterback's best friend because dude is gonna be reliable.
I don't know if anyone else watched "The Top 100", on NFL Network yesterday, but Jarvis Landry was #52 on the players' list. They showed his hands, and he has some huge hands, and can easily grab the ball with one hand. He has a monster catch radius, as well. I can't wait to see him this coming season. I think that he is going to be a perfect 2nd receiver.
I don't know if anyone else watched "The Top 100", on NFL Network yesterday, but Jarvis Landry was #52 on the players' list. They showed his hands, and he has some huge hands, and can easily grab the ball with one hand. He has a monster catch radius, as well. I can't wait to see him this coming season. I think that he is going to be a perfect 2nd receiver.
It looks to me like we'll have a much better offense. The additions of Landry, Gordon (basically) and Taylor should open things up for the run big time.
I don't know if anyone else watched "The Top 100", on NFL Network yesterday, but Jarvis Landry was #52 on the players' list. They showed his hands, and he has some huge hands, and can easily grab the ball with one hand. He has a monster catch radius, as well. I can't wait to see him this coming season. I think that he is going to be a perfect 2nd receiver.
Catch radius indeed. Impressive... most impressive.
I don't know if anyone else watched "The Top 100", on NFL Network yesterday, but Jarvis Landry was #52 on the players' list. They showed his hands, and he has some huge hands, and can easily grab the ball with one hand. He has a monster catch radius, as well. I can't wait to see him this coming season. I think that he is going to be a perfect 2nd receiver.
He’s not a #2 ... hes not a #1 either ... he’s like a 1B and 1/2 ... *L* ...
Dude can ball ... WERE gonna LOVE this dude ...
You’ve known me for awhile ...
U ever seen me this excited about a player we picked up ... i’m More excited about Landry than i was BQ ... ...
Jarvis Landry the 2nd Browns player to crack NFL’s Top 100
Bill Belichick summed it up perfectly as the Patriots prepared to face Jarvis Landry and the Dolphins last season.
“Landry’s role,” the New England Patriots coach said, “is he gets the ball a lot.”
No NFL wide receiver touched the ball more than Landry in 2017, and it’s why the new Cleveland playmaker checked in at No. 52 on NFL Network’s list of the league’s top 100 players. It marks the third straight year Landry, who has amassed more catches (400) than anyone in NFL history over the course of his first four seasons, has made the list.
Landry is the second Browns player to make the list, which is being unveiled in reverse order over the course of the next few weeks. Running back Carlos Hyde was 97th.
“Whether the ball is thrown behind me, too high, it’s my ability to catch the ball with one hand or two hands. Receivers talk about it. We call it catch radius,” Landry said. “The bigger your catch radius is, the more likely you have a chance of catching the ball. I like to think I have a big catch radius and it makes my game special.”
The Browns are banking on Landry’s special prowess as a playmaking vacuum at the wide receiver position. Cleveland acquired the three-time Pro Bowler in a trade with the Dolphins at the start of the league year and recently signed him to a contract extension.
Landry figures to be at the center of a revamped passing attack that features new options at all of the skill positions.
“Jarvis Landry is the type of football player we want on this team for a long time,” general manager John Dorsey said. “Obviously, he’s an accomplished playmaker, that’s why we went after him in the trade but in his short time as a Brown we can already see the type of leadership and competitiveness he’s going to bring to his teammates.”
I think a lot of people on this board are underestimating how good Landry is. I think I hear terms like "slot receiver" being said in an almost derogatory manner.
He was my number one target in FA and I'm thankful that the Browns were able to bring him to Cleveland.
I think a lot of people on this board are underestimating how good Landry is. I think I hear terms like "slot receiver" being said in an almost derogatory manner.
He was my number one target in FA and I'm thankful that the Browns were able to bring him to Cleveland.
that slot reciever thing really bothers me ... i made a post some weeks ago where i said that i could care less how u label him he’s a top 15 or so RECIEVER in the league ...
I think a lot of these guys either don’t understand what a true slot WR is or they have a different definition than i do and maybe u also ...
Landry lines up in the slot a lot when there’s 3 or more reciever sets ... that makes him a slot reciever to some ... NOT ME ... Landry is out there in almost all 2 WR sets if not all of them ... that disqualifies him from being a “slot” reciever to me ...
Theres a difference between lining up in the slot a lot and being what i consider a “slot” reciever ... make sense?
When i hear that i think of Larry Fitz (guess its time to change my sig now ... *L* ..) ... he’s spent a hell of a lot of time in his career in the slot ... but hes not reffered to as a “slot” reciever cause he started before the term slot reciever became so popular ... at least thats what i think ... *L* ...
I think labeling him as a certain kind of receiver is inaccurate and unfair. I don't care where he lines up. All I know is that he runs good routes, has great hands, is tough as nails, and is a quality receiver who consistently gets the job done.
If we have reliable consistency in our receiving with Landry and new OC, with Gordon and the wideout herd, then it may well prove a bargain. If we paid too much, well, given the past crappiness and lousy results, we may pay a premium. A bargain if it works and offers a buildable base.
Nobody complains they are having entirely too much success passing, price tag aside.
This is WAY DIFFERENT then the guys that have burned us ...
Bowe was done ... a few of us said the day of the signing it was a HORRIBLE SIGNING ... he was coming off a very down year and was way older than Landry ...
Britt has always been a lazy underachieving bum ... he had a great contract year considering his situation in LA ... a few of us said it was not a good signing and a lot of our fellow dawgs were going to be dissapointed because his contract year was a huge STATISTICAL OUTLIER ... i had no clue it would be that bad .. i have no clue what turned him off but he went above and beyond being NON PROFFESIONAL ... i thought it was going to be a bad signing .. but no way did i see it turning out that bad ...
Landry is going into year 4 and he’s coming off back to back pro bowl seasons ...
Like i said ... WAY DIFFERENT ... the only thing Landry has in common with them is they play the same position ... thats in name only ... Landry plays it at a different level than they do ..
3 of the main posters crapping on the Bowe and Britt signing (Vers, Pit and myself) LOVE THIS SIGNING ... Pit .. correct me if i’m Wrong ... if i am i apologize for speaking out of turn for u ...
It doesn’t mean were going to be right ... but it is DEFINELTY a grape to watermelon comparision when u compare the Landry singing to any other WR FA signing we’ve had not named Joe ...
And dawg ... its no coincidence that Jarvis and Joe have one thing in common that Britt/Bowe or any other WR we’ve brought in ...
I know this sounds like a crazy example, but I watched parts of the Pro Bowl's Skill Challenge. The wide receivers had to navigate this crazy obstacle course while catching the ball. Landry absolutely destroyed every WR there. Not only did he show how superior his hands were, but his footwork was far and away the best out there. He can change directions, measure his steps, and get his feet down w/amazing grace.
Later, he won the dodge ball competition. At the end, it was him against one other guy. Landry drops his ball and dares his opponent to throw at him. Of course, he caught the ball to win the event. Dude is a stud.
I realize we may not be 'cured' of all bad stuff yet, but we are 'bettered' I agree. And this quality and experience we have now, is solid to build on and set the bar higher IMO. I hated the signings you mentioned, especially the no-dress non-starts. Appalling.
Hope we open the playbook and stop giving away wins like Halloween candy. I want to beat the sand out of people who dare to play us.
U I know how i feel about feet ... lord only knows i took enough heat for it from the dolts back in the day ... *L* ...
I LOVE that stuff ... it shows how great an athelete he is and also what a COMPETITOR he is ... i don’t feel like thinking about how to spell competitor so if i spelled it wrong ... BITE ME ... *LOL* ..
If he had a tad more speed ... he’d be very comparable to Antonio Brown ... your thoughts on that?
Hes not a threat to take it to the house every time he catches it ... but man ... he’s HARD TO TACKLE ... he FIGHTS for every inch ...
Last year was the first year in a decade or so i didnt watch every single snap of every single nfl games except some of the Thur or Sunday night games ... they weren’t on the directv re-run package ...
When i watched Landry even as a rookie he made it impossible to NOT NOTICE HIM ... he was always moving the chains ... sometimes by making one guy miss and then breaking the next ones tackle .. he was ALWAYS MAKING PLAYS even as a rookie that made me think this dude does a lot of things that don’t impress on the stat sheet but we’re HUGE in helping his team win games ...
I said many times this kid is way underrated in year 2 and he has a shot to be a Cris Carter type in this league ... play for ever, catch everything and always seem to PEE Tthe other team off cause ther making that “keep the drive” alive type play ...
U I know how i feel about feet ... lord only knows i took enough heat for it from the dolts back in the day ... *L* ...
I LOVE that stuff ... it shows how great an athelete he is and also what a COMPETITOR he is ... i don’t feel like thinking about how to spell competitor so if i spelled it wrong ... BITE ME ... *LOL* ..
If he had a tad more speed ... he’d be very comparable to Antonio Brown ... your thoughts on that?
Hes not a threat to take it to the house every time he catches it ... but man ... he’s HARD TO TACKLE ... he FIGHTS for every inch ...
Last year was the first year in a decade or so i didnt watch every single snap of every single nfl games except some of the Thur or Sunday night games ... they weren’t on the directv re-run package ...
When i watched Landry even as a rookie he made it impossible to NOT NOTICE HIM ... he was always moving the chains ... sometimes by making one guy miss and then breaking the next ones tackle .. he was ALWAYS MAKING PLAYS even as a rookie that made me think this dude does a lot of things that don’t impress on the stat sheet but we’re HUGE in helping his team win games ...
I said many times this kid is way underrated in year 2 and he has a shot to be a Cris Carter type in this league ... play for ever, catch everything and always seem to PEE Tthe other team off cause ther making that “keep the drive” alive type play ...
I love his fight on every play. Ball's not coming his way? He'll block his ass off.
He'll catch anything that is anywhere in his general vicinity, and makes one handed grabs as easily as some players make 2 handed catches. He catches away from his body.
Every one of Miami's receivers saw a significant drop off in yards/catch last year. They also didn't run the ball all that much. People complained, rightly, about how we didn't run the ball much last year, but we had more than 300 more yards rushing than the Phins. They had to bring in Cutler, who I don't like as a QB. I think that he negatively impacted every one of their WRs last year.
Here's a staggering stat .... Landry was targeted 26.6% of the time last year. I think that he was used as a safety blanket, despite the fact that he can get open down the field. He can stop/start with amazing proficiency, and he is so quick that it's amazing.
I just hope that we'll use him in way that really utilizes his talents and abilities.
Would you guys stop, already.... I'm trying to maintain low expectations and not get my hopes up.
Thoughts of a guy akin to JoeJ, or better, running the field with Gordon (WAY better than Braylon), a TE as athletic as K2, and a QB better than Anderson has me starting to think we can make some noise.
I think a lot of people on this board are underestimating how good Landry is. I think I hear terms like "slot receiver" being said in an almost derogatory manner.
He was my number one target in FA and I'm thankful that the Browns were able to bring him to Cleveland.
"Slot receiver", was one of the terms I used immediately after we traded for him. However, as usual, since we did sign him I looked deeper into his playing career. I watched a lot of game footage on him and found that yes, he's known first as a slot receiver but he also has a lot of catches on deeper routes. He can run the route tree and get open for completions at any spot on the field.
So I take back the derogatory remark I initially made.
All I know is I'd rather have ONE LANDRY...than 3 Kenny Britts...
If my math memory is correct 3 x 0 = 0
The payment to Landry has less value as a negative for the simple reason that we had 100 mil in cap space at the time. Why we had the FA war chest so we can make sound FA (even though a trade) investments. Instead of the Britts or what's him name the year before. Good priced WRs. If not young up n comers why bother its a waste of money. Got to pay for talent as long as we choose wisely.
We got 3 first round talent WRs now on the team. Gordon, Landry and Calloway. We never had that kind of talent before, Never and the best part is that we finally have QBs to take advantage of the talent! Man I can't wait to see BM come in and be our franchise QB. Nothing against TT probably the best QB since 1999...but there is a reason we made BM our first pick in a Very talented QB class. Once all understands the O and it has good flow. Well I will stop there. Cause after all I'm a homer and my opinion must therefore be tainted. But I studied this kid. He can make every throw at all kinds of angles and throw at the velocity needed for each play, he has that natural feel and ability. One we get the two OTs established...I see nothing stopping us.
Man we got some great days ahead of us as Fans and we EARNED IT!
One thing that I don't hear a lot about is the crispness of his routes. His footwork allows him to be in that "special" category as an ankle breaker. What a lot of people don't consider is that Jerry Rice and Jarvis Landry had very similar 40 times and both were pretty slow. Yet in both cases, their ability to get open are unmatched.
Being a great WR is far more about a players feet and not about straight line speed.
I think a lot of people on this board are underestimating how good Landry is. I think I hear terms like "slot receiver" being said in an almost derogatory manner.
He was my number one target in FA and I'm thankful that the Browns were able to bring him to Cleveland.
The number one guy I wanted as well. First down machine.
I think a lot of people on this board are underestimating how good Landry is. I think I hear terms like "slot receiver" being said in an almost derogatory manner.
He was my number one target in FA and I'm thankful that the Browns were able to bring him to Cleveland.
The number one guy I wanted as well. First down machine.
Chain Mover + something we haven't had in a loooooong time ...
There were reports that the Ravens were closing in on getting Landry before we did. I was so happy that we beat them to the deal, especially when we didn't have to give up a whole lot.
I think a lot of people on this board are underestimating how good Landry is. I think I hear terms like "slot receiver" being said in an almost derogatory manner.
He was my number one target in FA and I'm thankful that the Browns were able to bring him to Cleveland.
"Slot receiver", was one of the terms I used immediately after we traded for him. However, as usual, since we did sign him I looked deeper into his playing career. I watched a lot of game footage on him and found that yes, he's known first as a slot receiver but he also has a lot of catches on deeper routes. He can run the route tree and get open for completions at any spot on the field.
So I take back the derogatory remark I initially made.
One thing that I don't hear a lot about is the crispness of his routes. His footwork allows him to be in that "special" category as an ankle breaker. What a lot of people don't consider is that Jerry Rice and Jarvis Landry had very similar 40 times and both were pretty slow. Yet in both cases, their ability to get open are unmatched.
Being a great WR is far more about a players feet and not about straight line speed.
Couldn’t agree more Pit ... theres a reason were this excited about him ... the man can BALL ...
One thing that I don't hear a lot about is the crispness of his routes. His footwork allows him to be in that "special" category as an ankle breaker. What a lot of people don't consider is that Jerry Rice and Jarvis Landry had very similar 40 times and both were pretty slow. Yet in both cases, their ability to get open are unmatched.
Being a great WR is far more about a players feet and not about straight line speed.
Couldn’t agree more Pit ... theres a reason were this excited about him ... the man can BALL ...
I think Landry is going to put up huge numbers as a Brown. Defenses will fear Gordon if he stays clean because he is the most talented player on the team, maybe the NFL and will put their top CB on him. Leaving Landry going up against #2 CB's week in and week out. Landry is a great route runner, with good hands, and better athleticism than he is given credit for. He is the best pure WR the Browns have had since Joe Jurevious. Todd Haley will make Landry this teams Antonio Brown.
He is the best pure WR the Browns have had since Joe Jurevious. Todd Haley will make Landry this teams Antonio Brown.
I'm confused. The year Joe Jurevicious was here, he was like the third or fourth option behind KW2 and Braylon.
What do you mean by pure WR?
Cause, IMO Travis Benjamin was a better WR for us and so was Terrell Pryor IMO. And they were number one options. Jurevicous did a good job for us, but Edwards and Winslow were best options without a doubt.
No doubt that Landry is a better receiver than Joe. I can't really speak for others, but perhaps they mean that both guys are/were excellent route runners who have a knack for finding holes in the zone. Cerebral guys who can catch in traffic and come through in the clutch.
No doubt that Landry is a better receiver than Joe. I can't really speak for others, but perhaps they mean that both guys are/were excellent route runners who have a knack for finding holes in the zone. Cerebral guys who can catch in traffic and come through in the clutch.
He is the best pure WR the Browns have had since Joe Jurevious. Todd Haley will make Landry this teams Antonio Brown.
I'm confused. The year Joe Jurevicious was here, he was like the third or fourth option behind KW2 and Braylon.
What do you mean by pure WR?
Cause, IMO Travis Benjamin was a better WR for us and so was Terrell Pryor IMO. And they were number one options. Jurevicous did a good job for us, but Edwards and Winslow were best options without a doubt.
Travis Benjamin was incredibly fast. Terrelle Pryor has great size and athleticism. Josh Gordon is a freak of nature with off the charts athleticism.
Joe J was a WR. He ran perfect routes and caught everything that came his way. Even poor passes. Landry brings those same skills that Joe possessed. Name me the last Browns receiver that made a QB look good when they made a bad throw. Joe did that for Derek Anderson. Landry will do that for Tyrod Taylor.
We have had many good athletes play WR for us but often times they dropped very catch-able throws. Ran poor routes and caused QB interceptions. Landry is a pure WR.
Yep. Just look at how we struggled the year after Joe retired. DA no longer had that reliable receiver, when he absolutely needed a catch. It really hurt the whole team, as teams had one less threat to defend.
Of course, then we had the lunacy of DA/BQ/KB/BG .......
Travis Benjamin was incredibly fast. Terrelle Pryor has great size and athleticism. Josh Gordon is a freak of nature with off the charts athleticism.
Joe J was a WR. He ran perfect routes and caught everything that came his way. Even poor passes. Landry brings those same skills that Joe possessed. Name me the last Browns receiver that made a QB look good when they made a bad throw. Joe did that for Derek Anderson. Landry will do that for Tyrod Taylor.
We have had many good athletes play WR for us but often times they dropped very catch-able throws. Ran poor routes and caused QB interceptions. Landry is a pure WR.
Gotcha, I was just confused. So you're saying the pure skill of playing WR.
Because, like I said, Pryor and Benjamin made significant differences on this team that i don't think that JJ could make.
And at least with Benjamin, I'd take him over JJ that same season with Braylon and KW2 (bigger difference players and better players that year than JJ)
I think a dying term not used by many is POSSESSION WR, they get too smart with Y, Z, S. Joe was a possession WR. His experience had him running good routes even though he was a little past his prime and he was never known for his great hands. But he was very reliable.
Maybe that is where someone might use pure WR as a description. Whatever Joe was Landry is way better and just reaching his prime years.
I think most of the board had Landry on their wish list. There are a few, don't know why who poo-pooed the pick up. He's a great leader by example to the youngsters. He understands the flow and he really brings the offense to a level that we have not seen. What WR in our existence since 1999 is equal to him? None! Great pick up and we used a 4th rounder + 2019 7th for him. Wow what a great move by Dorsey...
I watched JJ for years as a Giant, he was not known for his hands. He had a great run here for the couple of years and he caught just about everything. But don't tell me what his rep was coming here. Cause it wasn't of a WR with great hands. What I said "He was never known for his hands" for the simple reason he was not. You can go rewrite history all you want. I thought he caught what he was suppose to. But his routes were of the TE type of routes and successful catches, there was a time when he was an outside WR and I'm telling you from my memory he was not known for his great hands. He didn't have bad ones. But he dropped his share.
I'm not a stat guy, just going on memory back in the day when he was young and growing as a WR with the Giants.
So once again, put me down. That makes it so. I'm not good with stats stuff, talking about Giant years not Tampa and don't even know if they kept that stat then. All I know is I saw a fair share of his games and he was not known for great hands.
I think he showed excellent hands for the routes he was asked of during our Browns season...2? or 3?
I watched JJ for years as a Giant, he was not known for his hands. He had a great run here for the couple of years and he caught just about everything. But don't tell me what his rep was coming here. Cause it wasn't of a WR with great hands. What I said "He was never known for his hands" for the simple reason he was not. You can go rewrite history all you want. I thought he caught what he was suppose to. But his routes were of the TE type of routes and successful catches, there was a time when he was an outside WR and I'm telling you from my memory he was not known for his great hands. He didn't have bad ones. But he dropped his share.
I'm not a stat guy, just going on memory back in the day when he was young and growing as a WR with the Giants.
So once again, put me down. That makes it so. I'm not good with stats stuff, talking about Giant years not Tampa and don't even know if they kept that stat then. All I know is I saw a fair share of his games and he was not known for great hands.
I think he showed excellent hands for the routes he was asked of during our Browns season...2? or 3?
did pretty well in tampa too.. could it have been the hodge pot QBs the giants had back then?
Again never said he was bad...just stating he was never known for his hands. As in being described at the time with the words "AND GREAT HANDS" Thats all. He didn't have bad hands at all. He had success. Marginal success for a guy that tall and that much speed. Giant QBs, yeah not the greatest although Warner was not bad just his worst stint as a QB was with the Giants.
If it makes people feel better just forget I ever said he was not KNOWN FOR HIS HANDS.
Again never said he was bad...just stating he was never known for his hands. As in being described at the time with the words "AND GREAT HANDS" Thats all. He didn't have bad hands at all. He had success. Marginal success for a guy that tall and that much speed. Giant QBs, yeah not the greatest although Warner was not bad just his worst stint as a QB was with the Giants.
If it makes people feel better just forget I ever said he was not KNOWN FOR HIS HANDS.
When i think of good hands, I think Torry Holt, Larry Fitzgerald, Wayne Cherbet, Tony Gonzalez.
Hopefully Landry can show hands for our team like those guys have.
Luckily for us I've heard the term GOOD HANDS used for Landry. Even by some Great Hands.
Excellent Possession WR. don't know why they stopped promoting that in football??? Use to be you had scoring type guy and a possession type guy moving the chains.
Luckily for us I've heard the term GOOD HANDS used for Landry. Even by some Great Hands.
Excellent Possession WR. don't know why they stopped promoting that in football??? Use to be you had scoring type guy and a possession type guy moving the chains.
But I don't know how better to describe Landry!
Like Keyshawn and Wayne Cherbet. The Sun and the Lightbulb baby!
Although, i think Jarvis is definitely a better player than Wayne Cherbet. We see him in the slot because that's what Miami did last year. But he's been utilized in different ways than just the slot. He is more versatile than folks give him credit for
Again never said he was bad...just stating he was never known for his hands. As in being described at the time with the words "AND GREAT HANDS" Thats all. He didn't have bad hands at all. He had success. Marginal success for a guy that tall and that much speed. Giant QBs, yeah not the greatest although Warner was not bad just his worst stint as a QB was with the Giants.
If it makes people feel better just forget I ever said he was not KNOWN FOR HIS HANDS.
What I recall from Joe J was him being a very smart player, that was before him coming here,and it was confirmed.
Joe J and Willy Mac are IMHO the prototype smart player that play way bigger than what they are.
Don't know if Jarvis is known for being a smart player....
Would you guys stop, already.... I'm trying to maintain low expectations and not get my hopes up.
Thoughts of a guy akin to JoeJ, or better, running the field with Gordon (WAY better than Braylon), a TE as athletic as K2, and a QB better than Anderson has me starting to think we can make some noise.
U best stop reading now ...
I’m SOOOOOO EXCITED ..... I have never been this excited to see someone in a browns uniform making plays ... i am having a hard time containing my self ... i can’t wait to se this dude in a browns uni making plays, getting first downs keeping drives alive ...
This dudes good ... i mean real good ... i mean really really good ... he’s so consistent ... he’s like a machine ... and he’s YOUNG .... going into his 5 th year and he just keeps getting better ...
Hes so consistent ... with everything ... route running ... sharp, crisp always run to the exact spot where hes suppose to be and then he
CATCHES THE F’N BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man .... i can’t wait to see him playing for us ... this is the most excited I’ve been since our return .... this dude can flat out ball ....
Would you guys stop, already.... I'm trying to maintain low expectations and not get my hopes up.
Thoughts of a guy akin to JoeJ, or better, running the field with Gordon (WAY better than Braylon), a TE as athletic as K2, and a QB better than Anderson has me starting to think we can make some noise.
U best stop reading now ...
I’m SOOOOOO EXCITED ..... I have never been this excited to see someone in a browns uniform making plays ... i am having a hard time containing my self ... i can’t wait to se this dude in a browns uni making plays, getting first downs keeping drives alive ...
This dudes good ... i mean real good ... i mean really really good ... he’s so consistent ... he’s like a machine ... and he’s YOUNG .... going into his 5 th year and he just keeps getting better ...
Hes so consistent ... with everything ... route running ... sharp, crisp always run to the exact spot where hes suppose to be and then he
CATCHES THE F’N BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man .... i can’t wait to see him playing for us ... this is the most excited I’ve been since our return .... this dude can flat out ball ....
You don't have to be so down dude.. things will get better ...
While reading that, and continuing to temper myself, it made me think about the impact of Landry's game on Gordon's, and the thoughts then went to the troubled kid we drafted (Callaway?).
I don't know if anyone has noticed or not, but there hasn't been any negative noise surrounding him, at all. I am literally knocking wood on that, but it was a nice realization because if he can straighten up and be on the field, a talent like him could be disastrous for defenses when put on the field with a pair like Gordon and Landry. He will get a LOT of opportunities to do work with defenses having to focus on those other two (and not even factoring in a guy like Njoku)..... but, that should probably all be for another thread about him. Landry's potential impact just got me thinking about the cascading effect he might have and what it could mean for others.
My understanding is that this Callaway kid is like Gordon 2.0 talent wise. Imagine that duo with Landry in the seam and Njoku/DeValve/Duke underneath... All with a qb that can get them the ball on time.
My understanding is that this Callaway kid is like Gordon 2.0 talent wise. Imagine that duo with Landry in the seam and Njoku/DeValve/Duke underneath... All with a qb that can get them the ball on time.
I don't know anything about Callaway other than what I've read ... his route running needs work. He's basically a vertical threat right now and not much else
j/c... Calloway is going to benefit from having Landry as a mentor and teammate. Can't have a better one to emulate. Him and Gordon have different dynamics. But what I do know is the kid has speed. Also that is the first I heard anything about his hands being suspect??? Is that true?
Landry, Gordon, Duke and Calloway I hope will be the best group of 4 in the NFL. Add in our TEs Njoku and Devalve and we have 6 amazing weapons for the air game!
I've said this since we drafted Callaway .. Landry has the most valuable spot on our roster. He is not only expected to be a playmaker, but he's a leader and mentor to Gordon and Callaway.
This is a hell of a group of weapons. Throw in what could be the best run blocking OL in football with three solid backs and well, things could get interesting. Hue is a coach that needs dynamic players. Well now he has them.
"Callaway can make the spectacular catches, but he struggles to be consistent catching the ball. In his two seasons at Florida, he has 10 drops, according to Pro Football Focus. Pro Football Focus also states that of the 61 catchable passes in 2016, Callaway dropped seven passes for an 11.48% drop rate. His hands are just not consistent."
“We talk every day, and I know how it is definitely being in that scenario,” Gordon said. You don’t necessarily want outside pressure just prying into your life and trying to get you to open up. Naturally, he’s just being himself, and that’s all I want him to do, just being able to focus on the game and the task at hand for right now.
“I think the best way for me to try to get that across to him is to show him that there’s somebody dealing with the same issues right now, currently, and this is what I’m doing. This is how I have to adapt to this new lifestyle of just being a professional.
“I’ve known Antonio since he was at Florida. We were training together in Gainesville. I’ve seen him then, and I’ve seen him now. He’s come a long way. He’s got a great attitude, great guy, and he’s a great football player more than anything.”
I'm not trying to cast aspersions on JG. I hope he's doing well and will continue to do well.
But to me, he doesn't "sound different". He's always had the ability to, and has said all the right things. It's just in the past he's naver managed to back up his words with actions.
j/c... Calloway is going to benefit from having Landry as a mentor and teammate. Can't have a better one to emulate. Him and Gordon have different dynamics. But what I do know is the kid has speed. Also that is the first I heard anything about his hands being suspect??? Is that true?
Landry, Gordon, Duke and Calloway I hope will be the best group of 4 in the NFL. Add in our TEs Njoku and Devalve and we have 6 amazing weapons for the air game!
Actually if you listen to the WR coach Henry's recent presser, he may be the best asset all these young troubled kids have here. He has a master degree in education and structural technology. Someone that will be there both on and off the field, for both football and non-football ordeals.
I was actually impressed with him after his presser.
"Callaway can make the spectacular catches, but he struggles to be consistent catching the ball. In his two seasons at Florida, he has 10 drops, according to Pro Football Focus. Pro Football Focus also states that of the 61 catchable passes in 2016, Callaway dropped seven passes for an 11.48% drop rate. His hands are just not consistent."
I agree every WR needs to lower their drop rate. But 11% isn't the end of the world. There have been some really good receivers with drop rates in that same range and Callaway can make up for it with thee 'spectacular' catch that other receiver can't/dont make.
"Callaway can make the spectacular catches, but he struggles to be consistent catching the ball. In his two seasons at Florida, he has 10 drops, according to Pro Football Focus. Pro Football Focus also states that of the 61 catchable passes in 2016, Callaway dropped seven passes for an 11.48% drop rate. His hands are just not consistent."
I agree every WR needs to lower their drop rate. But 11% isn't the end of the world. There have been some really good receivers with drop rates in that same range and Callaway can make up for it with thee 'spectacular' catch that other receiver can't/dont make.
Yes and not all drops can be attributed to the receives hands.
Callaway's drops where not because of having bad hands, he has natural hands, with proper placement for a WR.
A fact that I illustrated in the Draft thread.
I'm not concerned with his 'football' abilities.
I think that he could stud out, ... But the choice is up to him. I hope that he makes the right one.
Besides he can retire before he is 40 and have the rest of his life to partake in the green herb.
Pro Football Focus also states that of the 61 catchable passes in 2016, Callaway dropped seven passes for an 11.48% drop rate. His hands are just not consistent."
"Callaway can make the spectacular catches, but he struggles to be consistent catching the ball. In his two seasons at Florida, he has 10 drops, according to Pro Football Focus. Pro Football Focus also states that of the 61 catchable passes in 2016, Callaway dropped seven passes for an 11.48% drop rate. His hands are just not consistent."
I agree every WR needs to lower their drop rate. But 11% isn't the end of the world. There have been some really good receivers with drop rates in that same range and Callaway can make up for it with thee 'spectacular' catch that other receiver can't/dont make.
Yes and not all drops can be attributed to the receives hands.
Callaway's drops where not because of having bad hands, he has natural hands, with proper placement for a WR.
A fact that I illustrated in the Draft thread.
I'm not concerned with his 'football' abilities.
I think that he could stud out, ... But the choice is up to him. I hope that he makes the right one.
Besides he can retire before he is 40 and have the rest of his life to partake in the green herb.
If not for his off the field some scouts considered him one of the best WRs in the draft.
I have no idea if Calloway has good or bad hands. I don't like the stat thing because we all saw last year how terrible the sites were at judging dropped passes. I started a thread about it. We all say 6-7 drops. The sites said 1 drop.
They're BS stats.
I'll tell you whether the guy can catch or not early on after I see him.
"Callaway can make the spectacular catches, but he struggles to be consistent catching the ball. In his two seasons at Florida, he has 10 drops, according to Pro Football Focus. Pro Football Focus also states that of the 61 catchable passes in 2016, Callaway dropped seven passes for an 11.48% drop rate. His hands are just not consistent."
I agree every WR needs to lower their drop rate. But 11% isn't the end of the world. There have been some really good receivers with drop rates in that same range and Callaway can make up for it with thee 'spectacular' catch that other receiver can't/dont make.
Yes and not all drops can be attributed to the receives hands.
Callaway's drops where not because of having bad hands, he has natural hands, with proper placement for a WR.
A fact that I illustrated in the Draft thread.
I'm not concerned with his 'football' abilities.
I think that he could stud out, ... But the choice is up to him. I hope that he makes the right one.
Besides he can retire before he is 40 and have the rest of his life to partake in the green herb.
If not for his off the field some scouts considered him one of the best WRs in the draft.
I agree with that, but to be perfectly honest, (being a Gator fan) I never considered that we might be the team to take the gamble on him in the Draft.
The 4th round selection was well worth the gamble imo.
Talent wise Callaway could be the best weapon @WR in the class, because he also adds a dimension in the return game.
How do u make up for a drop? ... after u make the spectacular catch do they re-wind the clock and give u another chance to make the catch that cost u the first down on the previous series?
How many spectacular catches does Coleman have to make to “make up for” the drop against Pitt in the last game last year? ... will 1 spectacular catch make up for it ... will it take 2, 3 or 4 ...
How many drops does a spectacular catch on a 3rd and 17 when u gained 11 yards on the play make up for? ...
Guys with “questionable” hands don’t stick cause they can make spectacular catches they stick cause there ATHELETIC FREAKS and/or they can RUN LIKE THE WIND .. there kept around cause of their UNIQUE PLAYMAKING ABILITY not cause they make “spectacular” catches ...
Guys in the mold of Ricardo Louis are drafted every year cause of their “athletic ability” ... that dude can’t catch at all ... look at Hayward-Bey ... he’s footballs version of a left handed piitcher ... hes had a long career cause he can run fast ... if he could catch he’d be a STUD ...
Guys with questionable hands stick cause there PLAY MAKERS not cause there capable of making great catches ...
I think its a bit early to right off Calloway or any receiver as having 'questionable hands' based soley on a 11% drop rate. But to each their own.
The list of receivers who have posted that drop rate (and worse) is a really good list that would include guys like Wes Welker.
I’ll take your word on this as i am not a STAT guy ... Wes Walker had GREAT HANDS IMO ...
And my above rant was not writing Calloway off ... i have NO CLUE about this kid ... i dont judge til i see them with my own eyes ... i trust my eyes MORE THAN STATS or what the talking heads say ... there’s 2 or 3 posters i trust way more than the talking heads ... believe it or not i respect your opinion a hell of a lot on most topics ... .
And if there a body catcher they can LEARN TO CATCH with there hands ... theres also some technical things that can be corrected ... like say .... PALMS UP ... .... ...
What do u attribute the drops too sir? ... love to know what to watch for when i do get my eyes on the young man ... up til recently i just watched to see if they caught everything and when they didn’t my technical knowledge consisted of do they “fight” with the ball or do they have natural soft hands ... like when i watched all Chubbs 5 catches last year ... *LOL* .... I LOVED how soft his hands were (its like the ball melts into them) and how naturally he caught it ..
Today I technically know a smidge more ... i learned PALMS UP ... hoping the dawg that taught me that will teach me some more ...
Extend your arms above your head at about a 45 degree angle from your shoulders.
Now, w/the back side of your hands closest to your face, point both thumbs toward one another. Rotate your wrists slightly inward so your index fingers move closer together. You will see a triangle being formed.
That is how to catch a football. Do it once or twice and you can get your hands in that position w/out even thinking about it.
Obviously, your hand placement is different depending on where the ball is. For example, a low pass changes things. Here is a link and I want you to look at the photograph on the bottom right. It's a pic of what I was talking about.
So, just wondering. Great stuff here for high and low catches, which is taught and practiced. And good "teach", Vets!
Are we actively teaching the on-handed stab catch? Or is it just in the realm of the rare and exotic circus catch anomaly? We are seeing more of it. Remember "practicing sideline curb catching with friends as a kid. Is this the new wave? Incredible to watch, but is it teachable?
Got to watch more tape on him...If he is a bobbler then that is no good but if its a concentration thing that can be worked on and improvement would be there. Thanks for the info. Bobbler, Quincy Morgan was a bobbler. almost all passes would hit his hands and bounce also Greg Little was a bobbler.
Thanks ... dont have time to check it out now but i will tonight ... looking forward to it ...
That triangle thing ... as soon as i read it and did it ... i remembered that every time i see a reciever catching a ball from the jugs gun .... when they always “square” to the machine and the jugs machine is firing them at their chest .. i remember seeing that triangle from the reciever almost every single time ...
Thanks again .. looking forward to checking out the link tonight ...
Got to watch more tape on him...If he is a bobbler then that is no good but if its a concentration thing that can be worked on and improvement would be there. Thanks for the info. Bobbler, Quincy Morgan was a bobbler. almost all passes would hit his hands and bounce also Greg Little was a bobbler.
jmho
Video I've seen doesn't show anything too concerning. Classic cases of thinking about your next move before you've secured the ball and a couple of "bobble-drops". It happens. It's mostly an eye test thing for me, until there is enough of a sample size and you can see a WR consistently has suspect hands. Eye test says no big deal - just an area to work on. Again, we're talking about the kid's only weakness.
Besides stealing credit cards and smokin' dope lol.
"Drops - One area where Callaway does struggle are with drops. His drop rate during his final year in Gainesville was 12.24 according to Pro Football Focus. For reference, that would have been one of the highest in this year’s class.
Most of the drops weren’t contested situations either. He has to concentrate through the duration to prevent any drops. He’s shown the ability to track and concentrate on deep throws, so this shouldn’t be anything too concerning."
Thats a good one ... who has the best hands ... damm ... good one ... gotta chew on that for awhile ...
I’ll say one thing for sure ... he has the biggest catch radius and i dont think its even close ... that dude’s arms are long as hell he has great hand/eye coordination, is a hell of an athelete and he catches everything even one handed ....
I was debating on getting the ticket this year ... i think i may now so i can watch all the games and see who i believe had the best hands in the 18 season ...
Obviously, your hand placement is different depending on where the ball is. For example, a low pass changes things. Here is a link and I want you to look at the photograph on the bottom right. It's a pic of what I was talking about.
It's not just catching the football. Well, it is, but it isn't. At this level, you're not just running your route and getting open and catching the ball. WR's are watching the defender covering them (technique & leverage) and reading the overall D, so that they can get open. Then the QB has to be on the same page. A lot of the time, the ball is thrown before the intended receiver makes his break. It's also not just playing pitch and catch in the backyard-the ball gets on you fast in the NFL. Those radar gun numbers at the combine aren't just for show.
One must both process fast and focus, while also not hurrying and getting ahead of one's self. There are also lurking enforcers to worry/not worry about.
There's a good bit of the mental side of things going on at the NFL level. Most of them have the "physical" part down pretty well, but there are a lot of moving parts going on around that process... and they're moving really fast.
I watch so many NFL games that I'm embarrassed to admit the number. But, I tape a ton of games and watch some of those on Tues, Wed, and Friday nights.
In my opinion, these WRs have the best hands I have seen in recent years. I'm not going to put them in order. Too subjective and I don't like being inaccurate.
Fitz is one. Large catch radius.
Marvin Jones is another. Dude isn't big, but he soars and makes some of toughest high-point catches I have ever seen.
Antonio Brown has the unique ability to work his hands and feet together. No one is better at this.
Our own Jarvis Landry has strong hands and snatches passes out of the air.
His college teammate, Odell Beckham Jr has incredible hands. Similar to Landry. I know people don't like him, but he can catch.
Doug Baldwin has great hands. He is another guy who can coordinate his feet w/his hands very well on the sidelines.
Jeremy Maclin is steady as can be. He might not be sensational, but he doesn't drop the ball.
I am probably leaving some dudes out, but those are the guys that pop into my mind.
Julio Jones can do it all. He is, quite likely, the best WR I have ever seen.
*Sigh* And we had the chance to draft him.
Julio Jones through his first 49 games (2011-2014):
4330 yards, 26 TDs, 88 yards per game.
Jerry Rice through his first 44 games (1985-1987):
3575 yards, 40 TD, 81.3 yards per game
Randy Moss through his first 48 games (1998-2000):
4163 yards, 43 TDs, 86.7 yards per game
OBJ through his first 47 games (2014-2017):
4424 yards, 38 TDs, 94 yards per game
And just for fun:
Jarvis Landry through his first 48 games (2014-2016):
3051 yards, 13 TDs, 63.6 yards per game
Josh Gordon through his first 40 games (2012-2017):
3089 yards, 15 TDs, 77.2 yards per game
Notes:
Jones and OBJ both missed the majority of seasons. Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Landry's stats only counted their first three seasons because they didn't miss any games. Josh Gordon has only played 40 games in his entire career.
This exercise was meant to show how crazy good all of these guys (Jones, OBJ, Moss, and Rice) are, but I am blown away by Moss and OBJ.
We also had the chance to draft OBJ and passed on him (and Aaron Donald) to draft Justin Gilbert.
This exercise was meant to show how crazy good all of these guys (Jones, OBJ, Moss, and Rice) are, but I am blown away by Moss and OBJ.
In all cases it has to be considered who the QB was throwing to them. It takes two to play catch.
Jones has had Matt Ryan his whole career. OBJ has had Eli. I believe Moss had old Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, and rookie Daunte Culpepper. Rice obviously had the best of the bunch. Landry has had Tannehill with a light sprinkling of Cutler and Matt Moore. Gordon did most of his damage with Weeden, Campbell, and Hoyer.
Gordon's QBs have almost literally been the worst I've ever seen.
I think you have memory problems. I clearly remember Gordon tanking Hoyer's season and the team...
We have had one really bad QB in Kizer, the other were not great, some were average, and some were even good Qb's (Josh McCown) and Hoyer was really good on the good days, but very inconsistent.
Figuring out his routes at times bordered on chaos theory which compounded the QB issues.
If he is locked down tight, and has some above average WR play, with an OC calling plays that fit the people we have, and our upgraded weapons, we win some games. Can't be sure until we see it.
I watch so many NFL games that I'm embarrassed to admit the number. But, I tape a ton of games and watch some of those on Tues, Wed, and Friday nights.
In my opinion, these WRs have the best hands I have seen in recent years. I'm not going to put them in order. Too subjective and I don't like being inaccurate.
Fitz is one. Large catch radius.
Marvin Jones is another. Dude isn't big, but he soars and makes some of toughest high-point catches I have ever seen.
Antonio Brown has the unique ability to work his hands and feet together. No one is better at this.
Our own Jarvis Landry has strong hands and snatches passes out of the air.
His college teammate, Odell Beckham Jr has incredible hands. Similar to Landry. I know people don't like him, but he can catch.
Doug Baldwin has great hands. He is another guy who can coordinate his feet w/his hands very well on the sidelines.
Jeremy Maclin is steady as can be. He might not be sensational, but he doesn't drop the ball.
I am probably leaving some dudes out, but those are the guys that pop into my mind.
Not sure why your embarrassed cause u get to spend a great deal of time doing something u love ... sounds good to me ...
I watch the games on the 30 minute quick take on the ticket ... two years ago they switched it ... the quick takes were on tv for about 48 hours straight and i used to tape them ... two years ago they made it online only so I couldn’t record them and kept it to the 48 hour limit ... I couldn’t squeeze that in last year so for the first time in 5 or 6 years i didnt see every snap of every game ...
Interesting list ... a few names onit i never really thought of as guys with great hands ...
Love me some Fitz ...
Always liked Jones ... never really noticed his hands or high point ability ... good stuff ... thanks ...
AB is AB ... love watching him play but hate him as much as i did Hines Ward ... *L* ..
Bro .. u have NO CLUE how much i am looking forward to seeing Jarvis making plays for us ... i think this is by far the most excited i’ve Been to see a player since our return ... I LOVED when we got Jamar Miller .. LOVED HIM ... just knew on our D he could only make a small difference ... with this team .. Jarvis can actually help us win some games ...
Jr’s a “sign of the times” kid IMO ... but man .. can he make the incredible catch .. and they say he works his ass off at it ... love his work ethic and what he does in between the lines .. not a fan of the crap that hurts the team on the sidelines or in the press ...
Baldwin is vastly underrated ... one of the most underrated in football .. hes good ... never really thought of him as a great hands guy ... but now that u bring it up .. he doesn’t drop the ball .. EVER ... also great body control as u pointed out .. he’s TOUGH as nails too ...
We should make this a running topic next year ... who has the best hands and talk about the drops and catches we saw ...
Nice read. Something to get excited about... I'm on record as not liking the signing, but hopefully he can prove me wrong and he ends up being better than he was for the Dolphins.
Nice read. Something to get excited about... I'm on record as not liking the signing, but hopefully he can prove me wrong and he ends up being better than he was for the Dolphins.
To me, Landry is the first attempt by the Browns, to bring in a true Pro Bowl caliber WR, young and in his prime. So I'm looking forward to see what he can do.
Some people expect people to take their word about a player who has never taken a snap in the NFL, then in the next breath refuse to recognize a player who has already proven himself in the NFL. You can't make this stuff up!
Some people expect people to take their word about a player who has never taken a snap in the NFL, then in the next breath refuse to recognize a player who has already proven himself in the NFL. You can't make this stuff up!
Wow. School of vers much?
You get a kick out of making stuff up too, I take it?
This statement is as head scratching as u thinking Baker didnt hurt the team when he was benched to start a game ...
Not sure exactly how much more u expected him to do there ...
Quite frankly its mind boggling that your “dissapointed” in his play in Miami ...
I can’t wait to see dude ...
U do know that he CATCHES THE F’N BALL!!!!! .... don’t u ...
I never said I was "disappointed," did I?
I love how several of you take someone's words and twist them into something they didn't say.
I never said anything about him not doing what I expected in Miami.
A crotch grab in the NFL only nets you a fine, not a suspension. Ask Jarvis, pretty sure he knows.
And I think based on the stats, which must lie, we well overpaid for Landry. I'm allowed to say that and have that opinion. He's paid like a top 5 WR and he's certainly not a top 5 WR, not even top 10.
I get everyone here wants to pay the man whatever it takes because he's the best WR we've seen in years. I can see where this might work out, but if he produces like he did in Miami he wasn't worth the bill. His yards per target is atrocious. Higgins who played slot quite a bit of the time was about 3 yards better than Landry. But I guess if we get the same stats as last year in Miami it was well worth it. Yeesh...
Nice read. Something to get excited about... I'm on record as not liking the signing, but hopefully he can prove me wrong and he ends up being better than he was for the Dolphins.
I’m not getting dragged into the 10 year old crap that Vers engages U in ... it destroys threads when u two do it and i won’t partake ...
See the bolded part ... that led me to believe U WERE “DISSAPOINTED” in his play in Miami ... guess i mis read it ... ... i’ll make sure to have my attorney proof read my posts to u from now on ...
We do agree he is not a top 5 WR in the NFL ...
I’m not gonna bother replying to your we “overpaid” him BS ... cause thats all it is ... complete and utter BS ...
U either don’t understand the nature of todays nfl contracts or have no clue how FA works ... and yes i do know he wasn’t a FA YET ... i’d explain but my lawyer just went home for the day ... *LOL* ...
Just curious ... if U think we overpaid for Jarvis ... Thank god your not a chiefs fan cause they paid Watkins more per year than we paid for a 3 time pro bowler ... ..
Some people expect people to take their word about a player who has never taken a snap in the NFL, then in the next breath refuse to recognize a player who has already proven himself in the NFL. You can't make this stuff up!
Wow. School of vers much?
You get a kick out of making stuff up too, I take it?
I don't make "stuff" up. I am an honest poster. I argue strongly and might offend people, but I do NOT make stuff up.
I'm not the "problem" here. The problem here is that no one is allowed to have an opinion unless it coincides with the opinion of about 3-4 certain posters. If it doesn't, be prepared to be called names and ridiculed for such opinions.
Go back and read my post. I simply posted my point of view. It was actually a positive comment towards Jarvis with some questions, much like many here do with Baker.
The other poster I was conversing with about baker asked me to post links to support my post. I did. They were there for all to see and he says he's still waiting for proof. Really?!!? I gave 4 links to support my claims and he gave one and treats it as gospel.
The funny thing is no one wanted to have a meaningful football conversation about why I said what I did. Everyone just rushed to be the first person to call me stupid.
In Miami, the dolphins actually did better when Landry was targeted less. He averaged 6.1 yards per target which is kinda awful. Heck he's the first receiver in history to have 100+ catches and not reach 1000 yds. You can catch 2 yard passes all day long and never get a first down. And speaking of first downs, his catches for first down percentage is like 53%! Think about how bad that is!
And yet I'm ridiculed for questioning paying him like a top 5 receiver? Give me a break.
But, we obviously aren't paying him to be a top 5 receiver. And I would be shocked beyond belief if Landry is actually in Cleveland for his full contract term!
I believe there are 3-4 posters here who will just look at the name of the person who posted and find a way to disagree and start an argument just because...
Oh, and you're not getting "dragged into the 10 year old crap?!" Haha. You guys are the ones who dragged me in... kudos!
edit:
I've said my peace. I apologize to the board for this incessant BS. Im not going to make another post concerning this matter.
In Miami, the dolphins actually did better when Landry was targeted less. He averaged 6.1 yards per target which is kinda awful. Heck he's the first receiver in history to have 100+ catches and not reach 1000 yds. You can catch 2 yard passes all day long and never get a first down. And speaking of first downs, his catches for first down percentage is like 53%! Think about how bad that is!
We called it making a diamond with our fingers though. Tips of index fingers and tips of thumbs touching. (flip the diamond so pinkies are touching on low passes or when you are catching over the shoulder.
Antonio Brown - 13.5 Mike Evans - 14.8 DeAndre Hopkins - 14.2 Sammy Watkins - 15.9 Jarvis Landry - 10.1 AJ Green - 14.8 Davante Adams - 11.9 Julio Jones - 15.5 Demaryius Thomas - 13.8 Allen Robinson - 14.1 TY Hilton - 15.8 Alshon Jeffery - 14.8 Doug Baldwin - 13.4 Keenan Allen - 12.4 DeSean Jackson - 17.3
Figuring in the number of catches .. first downs .. moving the ball .. and the fact we have not had a receiver who can hold onto the ball since 1999 .. I'm good with that. Everyone has a role to play.. I don't expect Jarvis to be Gordon .. or Gordon to be Jarvis.
I think where some have a problem is what we are paying him. Me, I don't care. We have a boatload of money and it is up to them to figure out how to allocate the money.
We got a receiver who can help us win games. That is all I care about.
Dudes complaining cause he LED THE LEAGUE ON CATCHES but didn’t gain enough yards on those catches .... think about that ... not sure how to phrase this w/o offending him and my lawyers not in yet ... *LOL* .... seriously ... how can u “complain” about a guy that led the league in receptions cause he didn’t gain enough yards ...
Let me phrase that another way ... it may be more affective ...
He is “not happy” with the player that LED THE LEAGUE IN RECEPTIONS cause he didn’t gain enough yards with those receptions or get enough 1st downs ...
I’m pretty sure he doesn’t get to pick his route tree on any particualr play .... but i could be wrong ... ...
I’ve also seen him play a TON ... man makes people miss and always gets every inch he can once contact is made ...
Bill Belichick and the rest of the NFL doesn't agree that Landry wasn't very good in Miami.
(Don’t let your head swell .. what i said in PM’s still stands ... this one falls under the “blind squirrel” category .... u just happend to find your nut at the absolute worst time for me .... *LOL* .... )
I'm very intrigued by how he will likely fit into our new offense though. Has he ever played with a combo of guys who can stretch the filed like Gordon with the mismatch of a guy like Njoku? I don't follow the Dolphins that closely, but his skill set appears to be exactly what we need...and he's very good at what he does.
He simply catches the ball and gets himself open. He's done that for his career. We need that...a lot. He should get more room to operate in an offense that has to account for guys who should be able to open things up.
I hadn’t watched it before my last reply .. just went and watched it ... i can’t believe it ... wasn’t sure it was possible ...
LOVE HIM EVEN MORE ...
Most impressive part to me ...
On his knees instead of getting out of the way he basically sits straight up when he knows hes gonna get RAN OVER and bent backwords ... he still PUT HIS BODY IN THE WAY AND MADE AS MUCH OF A BLOCK AS HE COULD ...
I am SOOOOOOO HAPPY we got him ...
I LITERALLY CON’T WAIT TO SEE HIM MAKING PLAYS FOR US ...
By intrigued did u mean EXCITED ... can u guess witch one i am .. *LOL* ...
God no ... he played with CRAP IN MIAMI ... utter CRAP .... he played with the likes of Kenny Stills, Devante Parker and last year a one hit wonder named Julius Thomas at TE ...
His QB is not good down the field but was good for what they asked Jarvis to do .. he was extremely accurate on the short stuff ... last year he had Cutler but that was behind a bad OL with literally NO RUNNING GAME ... it was the worst run game in the league i believe ...
Everything here is an upgrade ... from coaching to QB to supporting cast at every single position from OL to RB ...
He wont get near as many catches ... but he will get more yards and have a much much higher % of 1st down catches ...
DUDES A STUD WILLIE .... YOUR GONNA LOVE HIM ... he’s a step away from being a replica of one Antonio Brown ....
Go watch that video ... he gets the ultimate compliment from the greatest D mind in the history of the game ....
Im not complaining. I'm saying buyer beware. Thanks for twisting my words. School of vers, much? 112 catches is damn good. The guy is being paid a lot of money for what he does. Duke could have done the same things at a far cheaper price. If Gordon lights it up and expects to be paid, there's probably no way we could afford both Landry and Gordon.
I would continue but I'll let you twist those words first before I rebut.
Here, I'm not twisting any words. You need to shut the hell up. The more you say the deeper you dig your hole. You start out with a dumb statement and then frantically try to back it up with even dumber statements. Talk about making the board a headache.
Here, I'm not twisting any words. You need to shut the hell up. The more you say the deeper you dig your hole. You start out with a dumb statement and then frantically try to back it up with even dumber statements. Talk about making the board a headache.
Duke could have done the same things at a far cheaper price.
C'mon bro.
Duke is Duke... he's good at "Duke"... You think we should have tried to mold him into Jarvis Landry?
I'm not interested in saving money. I'm interested in putting professionals in every group of personnel. Jarvis Landry, professional WR... this is how he acts, this is how he trains, this is how he catches the ball, this is how he breaks down his defender... Aspiring All-World Wide Receivers - take notes.
I HOPE we have the headache of trying to pay two elite WR's!
By intrigued did u mean EXCITED ... can u guess witch one i am .. *LOL* ...
God no ... he played with CRAP IN MIAMI ... utter CRAP .... he played with the likes of Kenny Stills, Devante Parker and last year a one hit wonder named Julius Thomas at TE ...
His QB is not good down the field but was good for what they asked Jarvis to do .. he was extremely accurate on the short stuff ... last year he had Cutler but that was behind a bad OL with literally NO RUNNING GAME ... it was the worst run game in the league i believe ...
Everything here is an upgrade ... from coaching to QB to supporting cast at every single position from OL to RB ...
He wont get near as many catches ... but he will get more yards and have a much much higher % of 1st down catches ...
DUDES A STUD WILLIE .... YOUR GONNA LOVE HIM ... he’s a step away from being a replica of one Antonio Brown ....
Go watch that video ... he gets the ultimate compliment from the greatest D mind in the history of the game ....
Diam,
You really need to work on saying what you are thinking. Stop holding back on your thoughts of JL. Let us know what you are really thinking. (I kid...I kid.)
Yeah...I'm excited about adding him too. Seems like the perfect compliment to what we (hopefully) are going to be going forward. The paper transformation of the offense is ridiculous...better than I could have hoped-for.
Here, I'm not twisting any words. You need to shut the hell up. The more you say the deeper you dig your hole. You start out with a dumb statement and then frantically try to back it up with even dumber statements. Talk about making the board a headache.
I would hate to spin your words, so I found some of your quotes regarding Landry.
Quote:
Jarvis Landry - D - I didn't give it an F because he does improve something. But I think Landry is severely overrated. I believe he has excellent hands and that might be about it. I think we could have done better, but I understand the need to sign the "big name" players for the sake of the franchise. I don't think he will be here for more than 3 years of that.
Quote:
Not quite sure where the thinking that 53% of completed passes are 1st downs is INSANE. I honestly don't know the league average if there is such a stat, but I'd guess 53% is either average or below, not INSANE.
Marquise Lee was 71%. Adam Theilen was 65%. Travis Benjamin was 58%.
Albert Wilson, another FA, who was an undrafted FA Dorsey brought in was 76%.
Heck, our own slot, Rashard Higgins was 48%. So we just paid 16 million to go up 5%! Landry is a STUD! Yeesh.
Landry also ranked #1 in receptions, but ranked 16th in first down catches on third down. Man, that is AWFUL especially considering that's what he's supposed to do best and that's why we are paying him the big bucks.
Quote:
The bottom line is Landry is probably better than what we've had... But is he worth 15 million per year? The stats say no.
Watkins and Landry were probably both signed to contracts based on potential. If they don't produce like the money dictates, they'll be let go.
Quote:
I still think it's interesting the amount of people who don't want Mayfield because of a crotch grab but are loving the Landry move...
Quote:
I wouldn't be so sure on Landry. I don't know where he falls in analytics, but I wasn't as high on him as some.
Quote:
Originally Posted By: willitevachange Originally Posted By: Milk Man j/c....
Ian Rapport Verified account @RapSheet #Jaguars are re-signign WR Marqise Lee, source said
Here, I'm not twisting any words. You need to shut the hell up. The more you say the deeper you dig your hole. You start out with a dumb statement and then frantically try to back it up with even dumber statements. Talk about making the board a headache.
Here, I'm not twisting any words. You need to shut the hell up. The more you say the deeper you dig your hole. You start out with a dumb statement and then frantically try to back it up with even dumber statements. Talk about making the board a headache.
Duke could have done the same things at a far cheaper price.
C'mon bro.
Duke is Duke... he's good at "Duke"... You think we should have tried to mold him into Jarvis Landry?
I'm not interested in saving money. I'm interested in putting professionals in every group of personnel. Jarvis Landry, professional WR... this is how he acts, this is how he trains, this is how he catches the ball, this is how he breaks down his defender... Aspiring All-World Wide Receivers - take notes.
I HOPE we have the headache of trying to pay two elite WR's!
This is fair. The answer is no. I don't want to mold Landry into Duke. But Duke could pretty much do the same things at a lesser price.
I get it. Browns fans haven't won in years and would do anything for a winning season. I don't want to win for one season, but multiple. I'm not a salary cap guru and neither is Dorsey, that was a knock on him in KC.
I understand this is a big deal because we've sucked at WR. I don't think this is a Reggie White type signing like Green Bay. I find it hard to believe that Landry is going to live up to his salary. No one cares if we win, right? And why do I care? And why do a lot of people here care that I care?
I'm not sure why you posted my comments. It sorta proves my point. I have not waivered from my opinion since I've posted. Maybe at some point my opinion will change and he will prove me wrong, but I don't alter my opinion to make myself look good as you do. I own my opinion. If you want to make me look foolish because my opinion was wrong, that's fine and says a lot about someone's character. I never once belittled anyone after I was laughed at when I said we should take Mayfield #1 and then we actually did. But I guess there's a handful of people here who apparently think that's the thing to do.
I posted them because you are always saying that I twist your words. You even bash me on discussions I am not involved in. You say things like "School of vers, much?" You say those things to belittle me. Yet, we both know that in our last two discussions, I actually quoted you and you turned things around to pretend I was the one making things up.
Thus, I just posted some of your quotes and let them stand on their own. You are who you are.
Right. I don't make things up, I don't lie. I am who I am. And you are who you are.
What I write/say is always quoted by you to be something completely different. It's clear as day in the Mayfield thread.
We were actually having a fine conversation about football until you questioned my integrity and hinted that I'm trying to fool people. I had no clue what you were talking about. I supplied links which support my takes and then you went rogue and called me a liar as well as question anyone who agrees with me. I don't get what your issues are, I really don't. Your provoking is nonsense. You point the finger at me then laugh and then seek the approval of the board. To me it's just crazy, but that's who you are.
You can read dozens of posts about people questioning Baker. I question Landry and it's like I said Kosar was a terrible quarterback. I had people jumping on my case from all angles. Based on the numbers there is legitimate concern but I understand he's historically the best WR acquisition we've had to date, so heaven forbid it be questioned.
I understand why people are tired of this crap. And I'm sorry... But you keep poking me with a stick and I am going to defend myself. You don't like me. I think this place gets it. Go poke your stick at someone else for a while.
But Duke could pretty much do the same things at a lesser price.
Which is not the same as actually doing what Landry can do - which Duke cannot and is not that.
Duke is very good, but he is NOT Landry and never will be, and unless he changes positions from RB to WR it is impossible for him to fill Landry's shoes because everytime he would line up behind the LoS, there would be a void where Landry is supposed to be.... and this simple fact is before you even begin to consider the differences in physical stature and actual ability.
They are different players and different skill sets, and Duke is great for us, but in no way, at all, ever, could he replace what Landry brings. Period.
As for all of the phantom salary cap concerns about affording both Landry and whomever...... it is NOT an issue.
1. there is an out before the 2020 season, so if he isn't playing worth what the contract balloons to or if he decides he wants to be a free agent again, he's gone
2. we have enough cap space now and for at least the next half decade to carry his contract and a larger one for Gordon without even blinking....
3. Those last years of his contract are all base salary; each and every one of those seasons is effectively a single-season rental because we could cut him at any time with very little dead money (max dead money is $4.5MM before the 2020 season).
4. the entire contract was effectively a fluffed up two year deal
Worrying about his contract when we're like $842 bajillion dollars under the cap is tears in a bucket.
I think Landry is going to have a huge year. I think he fits Taylor's skill-set better than Josh does, although Taylor should hit Josh w/a few bombs. But Landry's ability to run precise underneath routes and work inside will be a like a security blanket for Taylor because the latter doesn't like to take many chances.
I'll be interested to see how Haley uses Landry. In the NFL Network video, they had Belichick talking about all the different places that Miami lined him up. Out wide, in the slot, in the backfield, and in motion. I think it's key that we utilize all of those options. I like him in the backfield and catching quick passes from Taylor. Get the ball out quick and let Landry break tackles, which is something he is very proficient at.
This could be very fun and I think Landry might be able to lead the league in receptions.
But Duke could pretty much do the same things at a lesser price.
Which is not the same as actually doing what Landry can do - which Duke cannot and is not that.
Duke is very good, but he is NOT Landry and never will be, and unless he changes positions from RB to WR it is impossible for him to fill Landry's shoes because everytime he would line up behind the LoS, there would be a void where Landry is supposed to be.... and this simple fact is before you even begin to consider the differences in physical stature and actual ability.
They are different players and different skill sets, and Duke is great for us, but in no way, at all, ever, could he replace what Landry brings. Period.
For some reason you guys aren't following what I'm saying.
Whether one is a RB and one is a WR is irrelevant. I wouldn't ask him to be Landry. I wouldn't want him to be Landry. Heck, it was just last season when the reports were that the Browns were thinking about making Duke their slot receiver, and you guys are jumping all over me. Duke is probably one of the most underrated players in the league.
I've said over and over and over, I get why they went after someone who is supposedly the best slot receiver in the league. However, the Browns could have saved a boat load of money by utilizing Duke in a similar manner than signing Jarvis.
31 other teams don't have Jarvis Landry. And 12 of them made the playoffs last season... so having Landry isn't necessarily a guaranteed win.
As for all of the phantom salary cap concerns about affording both Landry and whomever...... it is NOT an issue.
I don't think it's good practice to believe since we have the money we might as well spend it.
I agree in principle. Signing literally ANYONE in free agency would not have created "cap concerns". That said, spending money wisely should always be a top priority no matter where you sit w/ available dollars. I hope this money ends up being spent wisely because, like you, I tend to think Landry is a little overrated. Miami didn't want to pay him and was happy getting a fourth for him-- which was a steal for Landry (even if I think he is overrated in terms of overral production and $$ paid) but at the same time is a head scratcher as to why Miami gave him up for so little.
They went after Wilson. Another guy I was interested in... I'll be curious to see how he does in Miami this year.
Not sure if that's a money thing with Miami or what. Landry said he wanted to stay in Miami, but as you said they were willing to cut ties with him...
A lot of people are convinced Landry is a God. I'm not saying he's going to suck, never have, but I'm weary of him as much as people are weary of Mayfield. I feel it's justified.
In Miami, the dolphins actually did better when Landry was targeted less. He averaged 6.1 yards per target which is kinda awful. Heck he's the first receiver in history to have 100+ catches and not reach 1000 yds. You can catch 2 yard passes all day long and never get a first down. And speaking of first downs, his catches for first down percentage is like 53%! Think about how bad that is!
Lets face it. Stats for a WR is up when they are guess what? LOSING. The team will throw more to try and come back and not use the time a running game will take. So a stat of this nature does not surprise me at all. Sure Miami did better when he caught 6 passes a game as opposed to 10. But it had nothing to do with Landry but more so the characteristic of the game.
As for all of the phantom salary cap concerns about affording both Landry and whomever...... it is NOT an issue.
I don't think it's good practice to believe since we have the money we might as well spend it.
I don't think that's what we're doing either.
Phase One was tearing a team down to the studs, acquiring assets in order to rebuild. A job well done imo.
Phase Two is acquiring the necessary talent to compete... that's what we're doing now.
Phase Three is where you start to feel the effects of salary cap and the stress of keeping free agents... The trick to this whole thing is competing at a high level by the time you're there. When you are a solid organization from top to bottom this job is easier than people make it out to be, as long as you have good talent evaluators and a good offensive and defensive scheme. It's a lot different when you have a competitive team and are only looking to fill a hole or two, in comparison to having so many holes that every time you stick a finger in a leak, a new one appears.
Remember when the Broncos offense looked like they could pick a RB off the street and he would have great success? What about the Patriots pass offense? Wes Welker - undrafted. Danny Amendola - undrafted. Julian Edelman - 7th round pick. Their RBs have been a series of rejects from around the league.
There will be those high-stakes free agents along the way, sometimes you have to cut your losses. Jarvis Landry will in no way, shape or form affect us when that day is here, nor will signing Josh Gordon, for that matter. But make no mistake, there is no one on this planet talking about the Browns having "one of the best WR corps" without him. Without him it's still all question marks.
There's still a process in getting from point A to point B. For the first year with a new GM and an open checkbook - I have no complaints. I was a little concerned we would see Haslam spending like a drunken sailor this year - a la Dan Snyder in the 90s. Given the free agent market and the Browns needs, Landry was a blue chip signing at just about the right price. Especially considering that "the price" in Cleveland will include a bit of a premium after 1-31.
The advantage for the Browns (and any team the does the complete "tear down") is having a lot of young talent on cheap contracts to start with. Doesn't make the rest of the job easy... gotta "make hay while the sun shines".
reading through this thread I'm pretty surprised at the divide on Landry.. 3 time pro bowler, more catches than anyone in NFL history in his first 4 years, still in his prime, fills a need. I thought it was pretty unanimous that signing landry was a good thing. Surprised to hear to the contrary
To me, you're right in the sense there still seems to be a method to our madness. And I'm not suggesting we are blindly paying for free agents just to spend money.
As they say there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think people love what we're doing because it actually looks like we're "trying" to do something.
This is not the same thing obviously, but it's kinda fun to look back...
In Miami, the dolphins actually did better when Landry was targeted less. He averaged 6.1 yards per target which is kinda awful. Heck he's the first receiver in history to have 100+ catches and not reach 1000 yds. You can catch 2 yard passes all day long and never get a first down. And speaking of first downs, his catches for first down percentage is like 53%! Think about how bad that is!
Lets face it. Stats for a WR is up when they are guess what? LOSING. The team will throw more to try and come back and not use the time a running game will take. So a stat of this nature does not surprise me at all. Sure Miami did better when he caught 6 passes a game as opposed to 10. But it had nothing to do with Landry but more so the characteristic of the game.
jmho
The first paragraph was a quote from device .. talking about how Landry averaged 6.1 yards per target, and was not worth spending money on. My post was an answer, stating that per reception was higher, and should be considered, as he has had a very high number of receptions every year. The reason Diam likes to say "Stats are for losers" is because you can skew the stats to cover most any situation.... example 6.1 yards per target vs 10.1 career yards per catch, each showing the same yards gained, but "target" added in to lower the receiver's average. Holding the receiver accountable for overthrows, throwaways, even good defense.
I'm not sure that some quite comprehend our situation. I believe people should put themselves in the shoes of an NFL FA player. Now we all love our Browns, but let's face it, we're a pretty bias bunch.
If you're actually a FA player, you have an agent. No matter how we as fans feel about NFL agents, they certainly have a responsibility to the players in advising them on their career moves. Players also have desires with their lifestyle and the destination where they wish to play and reside.
Now as much as we fans don't like to admit it, unless a player has some strong ties to Cleveland, why in the world would that be a desirable destination for him? The great winter weather? A top 20 city destination in America? The R&R HOF?
And let's look at it from the perspective of a WR. Is it the great franchise QB we have in place that will help boost his stats to make him even more valuable in future contracts? Over the past 10 years has coming here or being drafted here really helped a WR?
We have Tyrod, who is a pretty average guy. We have some hope in Baker but that's certainly yet to be determined. There's no magnetic draw for players to come to Cleveland other than if we simply outbid other teams. Over the past two years we have been 1-31 in case anyone forgot. This is a do or die season for Hue. That's not what a FA would see as any sense of stability.
When you sign a FA, especially a high quality FA like Landry, as a general rule you're going to overpay. And if you're the Browns, until you establish stability and at least some amount of success, to get a quality FA, you're going to have to pay even more.
When there is competition to sign a FA, they consider the environment of where they're going. They consider the stability, the quality of QB and how much success a team is having. Those who think we're overpaying? You're right. But if we want to win, we need some quality FA's. And to get them to come to this city, at this time, you have to overpay until such time as the ship gets righted.
I saw what you did and so I also went thru the top 15 paid WR and Landry wasn't really close to any of them as far as yards per reception is concerned. He was probably 2-3 yards behind all of them.
Quarterback this, quarterback that, scheme here, scheme there, I get it. I still think a 112 catches and less than 1000 yards is alarming.
I understand the skewing of stats, but that's not what this is.
But Duke could pretty much do the same things at a lesser price.
Which is not the same as actually doing what Landry can do - which Duke cannot and is not that.
Duke is very good, but he is NOT Landry and never will be, and unless he changes positions from RB to WR it is impossible for him to fill Landry's shoes because everytime he would line up behind the LoS, there would be a void where Landry is supposed to be.... and this simple fact is before you even begin to consider the differences in physical stature and actual ability.
They are different players and different skill sets, and Duke is great for us, but in no way, at all, ever, could he replace what Landry brings. Period.
For some reason you guys aren't following what I'm saying.
Whether one is a RB and one is a WR is irrelevant. I wouldn't ask him to be Landry. I wouldn't want him to be Landry. Heck, it was just last season when the reports were that the Browns were thinking about making Duke their slot receiver, and you guys are jumping all over me. Duke is probably one of the most underrated players in the league.
I've said over and over and over, I get why they went after someone who is supposedly the best slot receiver in the league. However, the Browns could have saved a boat load of money by utilizing Duke in a similar manner than signing Jarvis.
31 other teams don't have Jarvis Landry. And 12 of them made the playoffs last season... so having Landry isn't necessarily a guaranteed win.
I'm following what you're saying, but you're missing the point where if you put Duke into a position where he is doing what Landry would do, then you:
1. don't have Landry or anyone like him 2. don't have Duke as a threat for doing other Duke things
You've situationally lost BOTH skill sets to try to get one to do what the other does in your effort to pinch pennies.
What we DO have is Landry AND Duke and we can put them on the field together.
I agree. Some look at the cap in fantasy terms. In bid leagues a guy might be valued at $14. Spending $25 on him is crazy in the minds of some.
In fantasy it might be, but this isn't fantasy....and I play in 5 fantasy leagues. Two free leagues with members on another board and 3 buy in leagues locally....$100 to $200 each, so I am not putting down fantasy . There is more than just luck involved. It's a fun game. I have several championships under the belt. Several poor finishers as well.
Just like a real GM, if you don't have back-ups who can fill in if you get hit by injury or anything else and you are searching the waiver wire, you are hurting.
Jesus help us all. Nitpicking about Landry, when he will be TT's good friend. Those two will be tight. I don't care what we pay him, either. Our salary cap is not my problem.
Landry also digging the long Landry also digging the long ball
Landry, who started opposite Josh Gordon in two-receiver sets during minicamp, is eager to go deep more this season.
"Obviously I think being in this system with Todd Haley, he's going to give me opportunities to make more plays, different type of plays, plays downfield as well," he said. "I think that's going to show the complete receiver that I am.''
Landry, who started opposite Josh Gordon in two-receiver sets during minicamp, is eager to go deep more this season.
You don’t get a player simply based on what he’s done. You get a player based on what you project that he can do. Tannehill wasn’t complaining that Landry was cutting off his routes guys lol... Landry was running the routes the coaches told him to run. Landry is going to have a record yards per catch year in my opinion.
I don't think he will catch a ton of deep passes w/Taylor at qb. However, he sure as heck got deep in college. He can go deep, but if you watched the video from NFL Network, you'll see how Miami used him. Lining a player up in the backfield does not lead to a high YPC.
I also think people are putting too much emphasis on deep patterns. You need them, but you can't live on them.
I don't think he will catch a ton of deep passes w/Taylor at qb. However, he sure as heck got deep in college. He can go deep, but if you watched the video from NFL Network, you'll see how Miami used him. Lining a player up in the backfield does not lead to a high YPC.
I also think people are putting too much emphasis on deep patterns. You need them, but you can't live on them.
I agree, however, JG is deadly underneath as well. Just the threat of being able to take the top off with multiple receivers is nearly as valuable as actually doing it on a consistent basis.
reading through this thread I'm pretty surprised at the divide on Landry.. 3 time pro bowler, more catches than anyone in NFL history in his first 4 years, still in his prime, fills a need. I thought it was pretty unanimous that signing landry was a good thing. Surprised to hear to the contrary
Some guys you just can't please them...lol
The vet Landry is in his prime and finally we got the best WR we have ever had since 1999. He is of the mold of AB I know many will take a shot at me. But as a WR that is who he reminds me of...AB is AB and there is no one quite like him. But Landry is such a good route runner and has great hands. I think he lacks just a little speed which separates him from AB. Still the best we have had here since 1999 and now we can combine that with Gordon an amazing talent in himself. Wow how can we improve a position group better. Excellent move.
I was reading an old scouting report on Landry, and Mike Mayock said that when he looked at college tape of Beckham, he couldn't tell which receiver was Landry, and which was Beckham without looking at the numbers.
Now that may be an exaggeration, but, like you, I think that Landry can do a whole lot more than he has had the opportunity to do in his 1st 4 seasons .... but Miami really needed him in the role they had him fill.
I hope so ... if were going to be succesful on O we need him making a bunch of catches like he did in Miami .. he EXCELS at the underneath stuff ... its a SKILL ... and his skill set along with his knowledge makes him a perfect fit for that ... and its what Taylor does best ...
I do expect Landry to be a 1st down machine ... I also expect him to be a bigger factor in the intermediate routes and the deeper stuff ... he THRIVES underneath ... someone mentioned earlier JG is good underneath and can take it to the house ... well i agree he can take it to the house on any given play ... but he is not a “good” underneath guy ... not even close to Landry’s level of play underneath ... thats not a slam on JG ... its just not who he is ...
Duke’s the one I hope to see his catch numbers go down .. IMO that will be a good thing ...
I also expect ALOT MORE PLAYS to be run on O .. so although there’s only 1 ball that ball will be put in play more for us than the last couple years cause our O is better and will sustain more drives and our D is also better to get the O on the field quicker ...
YEah, I feel that we want him to do well. But I'm not sure if our offense will be in good hands with 87 receptions. We have so much talent on this offense that we shouldn't be looking to feed just one person. Someone will be getting open every play, Tyrod just needs to hit the open guy. Whether that's JG, JL, Duke, NJoku, Coleman, etc., etc. That's all I'm trying to say.
The thing is..........those other guys [other than Duke] are likely to drop it. Landry won't.
I can almost guarantee that he is going to have a huge year in regards to receptions. I also think Landry's production will result in some big play opportunities for Josh, provided Taylor throws the ball on time.
I'm not knocking your opinion, but we just see it a bit differently. No big deal.
A couple things that don't get talked about often with Landry (I think vers mentioned these right after we traded for Jarvis): he's physically tough and a willing, effective blocker.
I don't think he will catch a ton of deep passes w/Taylor at qb. However, he sure as heck got deep in college. He can go deep, but if you watched the video from NFL Network, you'll see how Miami used him. Lining a player up in the backfield does not lead to a high YPC.
I also think people are putting too much emphasis on deep patterns. You need them, but you can't live on them.
I agree. The days of the Mad Bomber or over. You still have to layer your routes to give it some stretch, but most passes these days are of the short variety....higher percentage.
I like to see big gains as much as anybody, but I love to see 4 yard gains on a regular basis....first down!
The game of football is all about moving the chains and not giving the ball away. We should know that! We have watched teams move the chains multiple times a series, and watched us not.
Good stuff dawg ... love the back and forth and exchange of ideas on how things could play out ... its dead time ... lets have some fun ... at least i think its fun ...*L* ... lets break it down ....
First question is how many plays did we run last year and how many more plays are we going to run this year ... not sure what last years number was ... but this years should go up for a couple reasons ....
- were gonna miss joe but were still a much much better offensive team ... were going to get more first downs and have longer drives .... were going to run more plays than last year ... question is by how many ....
- our D is going to be better ... not sure if our injuries could have come to worse players on D ... other than Kirksey they were basically our top players ... crap ... if any 3 guys in the secondary got hurt i’m Not sure we have noticed .... thats how bad the secondary was ...
So there should be more touches on O ....
Now ... those extra touches will also result in more running plays .... hopefully anyhow ... that’ll be dictated by the score so hopefully we run it A TON ....
Man ... just thinking of the numbers Vers posted that showed last years recieving yards ... when i think of how much we threw the ball its hard to fathom how the top 3 recieving yard totals were that low ... it seems impossible .. but naaa, we did it .... *L* ...
Anyhow .. were gonna run a lot more plays and run a lot more ... but there will also be a ton of receptions to go around ...
Taylor also loves the underneath stuff ...
I really see Landry having a HUGE YEAR as far as # of catches and catches for first downs ...
Man .. this has a shot to be really fun guys ... i mean really fun ... my imagination is just running so wild ....
With the running game with Hyde, Chubb and Duke ... and Duke a threat out of the backfield ... and u know what ... Duke may benifit the most from Landry ... they will pay less attention to Duke than last year ... they have too .. but then again ... Landry is so good even Bilicheck couldn’t stop him when thats what he game planned for and then was the most panicked i’ve Ever seen him on the sidelines ... *L* ... that was a GREAT VID Vers ...
And then .. oh by the way ..... SAY HELLO TO MYT FRIEND JOSH .....
OH MY ....
What an easy sell this must have been to Haley ... the sales pitch would have been my lead and it would of been about a 30 second pitch that closed itself ..
Coach Haley ... Hue Jackson here ... I’d like u to be my O-coordinator cause i love how u scheme for your talent and i think we could do great things together .... you’ll have control but i know your opened minded and we will work great together with u as the captain ....
The plan is to go get Tyrod for one of our PLETHORA of draft picks .... were gonna take a QB at #1 ... you’ll be 100% involved every step of the way with John making the final decision ....
Were gonna go get Jarvis Landry .... u know what Josh can do and U played against Njoku twice last year ...
Then were gonna try and bring in a vet RB .... and were gonna draft one with at 33 or 35 ... BTW do u know any FA guys that may be able to handle RT for us ...
What do u say Todd ..
Man ... this could break so many ways .... this could be so much fun ...
Its gonna be a really wierd feeling thinking we actually have a shot to win every game ... I CAN’T WAIT ...
OK ... your turn ... please be shorter than me guys ... *L* ...
Crap .. i gotta say ....
MR. LANDRY CAN CATCH THE GOSH DARN BALL!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m cautiously optomistic about the deep ball ... especially to Josh ... he can outrun some bad passes ... no BS ... correct? ....
But here’s the thing ... the one year in Buffalo Watkins was healthy ... he caught a bunch of long bombs for td’s ...i’m Not 100% sure TT was the qb that year though ... *L* ... I’m about 84% sure ....
Let your imagination run wild and tell me how u se the O breaking down ... nuttin else to talk about ... unless u wanna go chat with your posse ... ...
I ain't buying the Haley stuff, bro. LOL. Dude needed a job and he got control of an O. [I'm saying this in a light-hearted way.]
I think we didn't run the ball as much last year for several reasons:
1. We were often behind and were forced to pass. 2. Teams stacked the LOS to stop the run and dared us to pass. 3. We didn't want to put Kizer into poor down and distance situations. For example....run on 1st down and gain a yard. Run on 2nd down and gain 2 yards. Putting Kizer in 3rd and long is asking for a turnover.
I think that having Taylor instead of Kizer is the reason why we will run more this year. Also, having Landry and Gordon for a full year is far scarier to D's than Louis and Coleman. That's it. Nothing else. And I don't care what the Hue Hate Club says. That's it. Taylor isn't all that great, but teams will respect him more than they did Kizer. And they sure as hell will respect Landry and Gordon.
I still worry about Taylor not getting the ball to his receivers in a timely manner. I worry about him holding the ball and running too much. However, he isn't going to be nearly as bad as Kizer was last year.
I’m cautiously optomistic about the deep ball ... especially to Josh ... he can outrun some bad passes ... no BS ... correct? ....
But here’s the thing ... the one year in Buffalo Watkins was healthy ... he caught a bunch of long bombs for td’s ...i’m Not 100% sure TT was the qb that year though ... *L* ... I’m about 84% sure ....
Let your imagination run wild and tell me how u se the O breaking down ... nuttin else to talk about ... unless u wanna go chat with your posse ... ...
LOL....
I think you're right, but there is more to the story.
Taylor can throw a really nice deep ball. He puts air under it and is pretty accurate on bombs. He hit guys like Watkins and Woods on some beautiful bombs.
The concern is that he waits until they break wide open before he releases it. That results in sacks or him leaving the pocket and running.
His accuracy problems occur mostly in the intermediate to deep intermediate range. He throws a lot of balls out of bounds. Think Seneca Wallace.
I know you lived in Rochester. I'm guessing your take isn't too far off from mine. What say you?
I’d say thats a fair assessment ... i almost added but even josh cant get the ones he throws out of bounds .... *L* ...
I been down here the last two football seasons ... but i watched every snap he took up til last year and saw all but two games worth this year ...
In Buffalo he had 3 or 4 games where he was pretty bad .. stinkers ... eggs ... in 4 or 5 games u didnt even notice him ... u wondered what happend .... he did nothing good or bad ... another 4 or 5he was OK ... no negative plays and he made a few good plays ... then he’d have a few he was real good in ... Studley ...
Then there was last year ... he didn’t do much .... McCoy carried that O ....
TT is way better than Kizer ... not even close ... hes not all that but he’s never led an O like this ....
He does throw a nice deep ball ... cautiously optomistic ...
I never really noticed him holding it too long on the bombs .. doesnt mean he didnt ... just means i didnt notice ...
If he does ... josh will get open quicker than Woods did by a lifetime and quicker than Watkins did also ... ...
Woods is underrated ... he’s pretty good ... a poor mans Jarvis Landry ...
I'm a pretty big fan of Woods. Very underrated guy.
I think Taylor waits until the dude breaks open and then he throws it. That was my point. Are you saying he only does that on intermediate and short throws? Legit question. You have me second-guessing myself.
I still worry about Taylor not getting the ball to his receivers in a timely manner. I worry about him holding the ball and running too much. However, he isn't going to be nearly as bad as Kizer was last year.
The thing about this right here is that the perfect medicine for a QB that is holding the ball too long, which cue a defense to pin its ears back and get after him, is a WR that can run great routes, get open and has fantastic hands. The proverbial Possession Receiver.... and, we have a guy named Landry that can and will fill that role.
Yeah, everything still has to work out and the guys still have to take what we can all dream up on paper and actually do it.... but, the parts are there.
TT holds the ball? Ok, let's get him an outlet he can trust.
Nice read! But there we go again, TC coming up and I feel the stirrings of fan Hope for the Land again. I am encouraged and excited to see us better ourselves, especially this season. But I get my heart broken. Maybe this year will be different! If not , well, then next year . . . .
Browns fans know the Truth: "It is better to have loved and lost . . . ."
Nice read! But there we go again, TC coming up and I feel the stirrings of fan Hope for the Land again. I am encouraged and excited to see us better ourselves, especially this season. But I get my heart broken. Maybe this year will be different! If not , well, then next year . . . .
Browns fans know the Truth: "It is better to have loved and lost . . . ."
We have done both.
Go Browns!
Temper that with realistic expectations... I'd say the high water mark for us is still only five wins this year. That's still a LOT better than the last several years combined.
Nice read! But there we go again, TC coming up and I feel the stirrings of fan Hope for the Land again. I am encouraged and excited to see us better ourselves, especially this season. But I get my heart broken. Maybe this year will be different! If not , well, then next yearW8 4 Nxt Yr Again. . . .
Browns fans know the Truth: "It is better to have loved and lost . . . ."
Thanx for talking me down before I hurt myself. I know better; I just can't help myself. If a few things happen well, 5+. there I go again. Life of a fan, neh?
Nice read! But there we go again, TC coming up and I feel the stirrings of fan Hope for the Land again. I am encouraged and excited to see us better ourselves, especially this season. But I get my heart broken. Maybe this year will be different! If not , well, then next year . . . .
Browns fans know the Truth: "It is better to have loved and lost . . . ."
We have done both.
Go Browns!
Temper that with realistic expectations... I'd say the high water mark for us is still only five wins this year. That's still a LOT better than the last several years combined.
Ouch.
I think the low Mark is 4 wins. We don't need good or even average QB play to be a 4 win team imo. Kizzer killed how many games last year all by himself ???
I've no idea what to hope for on the high end .... There are a ton of ifs. But I really will be gutted if we don't get to 4 .... And Hue will be gone .... And just ewwww. Don't or. Can't think on that.
The multiple ifs are also multiple positives. despite the Brown's chronic history of ineptness.
Nice read! But there we go again, TC coming up and I feel the stirrings of fan Hope for the Land again. I am encouraged and excited to see us better ourselves, especially this season. But I get my heart broken. Maybe this year will be different! If not , well, then next year . . . .
Browns fans know the Truth: "It is better to have loved and lost . . . ."
We have done both.
Go Browns!
Temper that with realistic expectations... I'd say the high water mark for us is still only five wins this year. That's still a LOT better than the last several years combined.
Yeah, I do believe that the hype rocket is up, up and away right now regarding this team.
I see the positive things and not only do I agree, but I so like the acquisitions and etc. I just don't think a 50-50, playoff run and etc is there.
I realize why we are getting lowball expectations, these are the opposite of the hype rocket that is working its way out of control. But another honest potentiality is that young teams with skill players can catch an emotional updraft and over-perform; winning has proven to be contagious. So do we catch some lightning in the bottle, have streaky success or dumb luck a few? fans hope so. Maybe we surprise ourselves some. Hope.
The negatives.... It's The Browns something bad will probably happen. New offensive scheme. New QB. No Joe Thomas. Do we have adequate interior DL ? One safety spot is a big question mark. Will Gordon stay clean and he 100% vested?
The positives. New QB. New dedicated OC. Dedicated full time HC. A totally revamped secondary, potentially with a shut down CB (who will go thru some rookie growing pains for sure). A hell of a RB by committee. The best WR core we've had since 1999. A healthy MG and a healthy Ogbah. Joe Schobert playing in his second year at his new position.
Jarvis Landry stands in front of a black-and-gold marble wall inscribed with the signatures of those who have attained in their profession what he has been fighting for in his. Acknowledgment. Respect. Appreciation. A legacy and a place in history.
He reads the names to himself. James Brown. The Beatles. Stevie Wonder. Tupac.
It is late April, on the third floor of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, the city Landry is in the process of making his home. He asks a tour guide if an artist needs a majority vote or a unanimous one to be enshrined in the Hall. Who decides? What does it take to get in? Landry searches in vain for the signatures of some artists. He’s told they have yet to be enshrined. “Everyone gets their turn,” Landry says, his tone hopeful.
There’s no consensus about the value Landry brings to an NFL team, even though he is widely believed to be the best in the league at what he does. His position is oft-derided; the term slot receiver hangs like a pall over him. Through four seasons in the NFL he has 400 receptions, more than anyone before him in the history of the league, but still the Dolphins didn’t appreciate him. Not the way he wanted them to, at least.
Landry continues up escalators, down hallways, taking in all of the exhibits. He makes special note of the attire on display—Hendrix’s gold dashiki, Elvis’s bedazzled suit. He says he plans to come back every week, take pictures of a different outfit and have a custom version made for game day. For Week 1 at Pittsburgh he has already chosen Rob Zombie’s black-and-silver, full-length, metallic-leather jacket, with long tassels hanging from the sleeves, leather fringe and metal grommets. Even if you don’t consider Landry a star—and Miami didn’t—he can damn sure dress like one.
During contract negotiations last season the Dolphins refused to pay the 5' 11", 196-pound Landry as if he was one of the top receivers in the league, believing that his production is illusory—that despite all the grabs, his low yardage per catch (10.1) and touchdown average (5.5) over his career hadn’t helped contribute to wins. (Their best offer, Landry says, was $55 million over five years, with $27 million guaranteed.) So the team set their most popular player out, in Landry’s view, like an item in a yard sale, and in March the Browns picked him up for two piddling late-round picks.
“I was hurt by it,” Landry says. “I became the face of the franchise in Miami, and I don’t think they wanted me to be that. The respect was just never there.”
The Browns, however, promptly gave him the contract he was seeking: $75.5 million over five years, $47 million guaranteed, equaling the third-highest payout for a receiver in NFL history. Not for a slot receiver—for any receiver. The “thousand voices,” as Landry calls his detractors, treated the move harshly. A sampling of headlines: THE BROWNS COMPLETELY OVERPAID JARVIS LANDRY; NO ONE IS AFRAID OF JARVIS LANDRY; SLOT RECEIVER JARVIS LANDRY ISN’T A GAME CHANGER.
You’d think the 25-year-old Landry would be used to it by now, the disconnect between his production on the field and the lack of love he feels from teams. He still remembers the pain he felt on draft day, 2014. Did I do something wrong? he wondered aloud, as he waited 63 picks to hear his name called, long past his agent’s optimistic prediction, after 11 other receivers had gone. (His LSU classmate and best friend, Odell Beckham Jr., went No. 12 to the Giants, even though Landry had more catches, yards and touchdowns in their junior—and final—season.) By the time Landry was picked, the cheeks of all 50 family members and friends, all crowded into the Baton Rouge hotel room he had rented, were stained with tears, none more than his own.
Landry channels this same sense of aggrievement every time he takes the field; it drives him through another tackle, propels him to another first down. The old heads in the Convent, La., neighborhood where he grew up told football war stories, of crackback blocks and over-the-middle catches, instilling the idea that toughness and tenacity supersede all. It’s why Landry, as an eight-year-old, would sprint up the levee near his one-room trailer-park home, sitting right on a bank of the Mississippi, every day before dawn. Why he would break into LSU’s training facility at 3 a.m., using a credit card to jimmy open a back door, and catch 300 balls from the JUGS machine by himself. It’s why he used to steal his older brother’s shoes, not just for style, but because the ensuing beating he’d take helped inure him to pain.
All he has ever wanted is success as a football player; it consumes him. Landry calls this drive his greatest strength, but it’s also his greatest weakness; he’s been labeled a hothead, a malcontent, his passion misconstrued. The thought of failure terrifies him. Now, on a team that has won a single game over the last two seasons, he needs to prove that those who believed in him were right—and the thousand voices were wrong.
“I’m not just a slot receiver,” Landry says, less defiant than pleading. Yes, he has lined up in there for the majority of his career and is the most productive player in the league from that position. (Of his 400 catches, 267 have come from the slot, the most in the league over the last four seasons.) And while he deeply believes in the importance of the role, he knows that others don’t, so he hankers to run deeper routes, score more touchdowns, embrace more responsibilities.
Distilled to its most basic definition, a slot receiver is simply the one who lines up inside—anywhere between the offensive line and the “X” receiver. Historically, these players have been smaller and quicker than their counterparts on the outside, specializing in the less glamorous aspects of pass catching—running short routes over the middle, operating in tight spaces and absorbing punishment from charging defensive backs and lingering inside linebackers. Because slot receivers have been fawned over less and paid less than the genetic specimens on the outside, they have been viewed as easily replaceable, little more than security blankets for a quarterback.
But in today’s NFL, the slot receiver is increasingly becoming indispensable. The league has shifted toward a high-volume passing game, and teams now use “11 personnel” (one running back, one tight end, three receivers) on 59% of snaps—forcing defenses to replace a linebacker with a nickelback. The slot is the player most easily shifted to create mismatches, exploiting a slower linebacker or overmatched nickelback. He can act as a simulacrum for a running game or offset poor offensive line play (which is increasingly common because of limitations on practice time) by racking up the short catches that lead to first downs, keeping an offense on the field.
True, slot receivers don’t typically generate as many explosive plays (or touchdowns) as the guys on the outside. But Hall-of-Fame executive Bill Polian doesn’t understand the stigma. In the right scheme a slot receiver can provide much more than possession, Polian points out, noting that Rob Gronkowski of the Patriots, the NFL’s most dynamic tight end, ran more than half of his routes from the slot in 2017. All teams are free to pay players under the salary cap however they wish, Polian explains, to build the roster that they think best fits their scheme. “Production is production,” he says flatly, “and Jarvis Landry is the most productive player on the Cleveland Browns. So why wouldn’t you pay him that?”
Former NFL quarterback Tim Hasselbeck says that, of course, QBs value outside receivers because of their ability to stretch the field. But what a passer likes more is the receiver who will see the things the way he sees things, who has easy body language to read, who is versatile and reliable and consistent. “And that’s Jarvis Landry,” Hasselbeck says. Landry ventures boldy into the middle, finds holes in defenses, delivers crushing blocks on larger defenders and, most important, has surer hands (just three drops in 2017) than most of his peers. Frank Wilson, LSU’s associate head coach from 2012 to ’15, believes that Landry is the most complete and reliable receiver in the league. While Beckham performed feats that he’d never seen before, Wilson says, “when we were in critical situation and needed a completion, a touchdown, a two-point conversation, a first down, needed to continue a two-minute drill, we threw the ball to Jarvis Landry.”
At LSU, Landry and Beckham split time between the slot and the outside and were seen as interchangeable. The coaches even named one of his deep routes “Five 25 F Post, touchdown to Jarvis Landry, on one,” because it so often resulted in six points. But now Landry hears his critics disparage him because even though he led the league with 112 catches last year, his gained a measly 8.8 yards per reception. “I probably caught a thousand bubble screens,” Landry says. His average at the point of catch last season was just 4.4 yards from the line of scrimmage, 92nd in the league—the type of routes he was asked to run deflated his yardage total. “I did all I could do with what I had,” Landry says.
As the losses piled up for the Dolphins, Landry says he frequently stopped in Adam Gase’s office to plead with the coach. He was basically running only four routes—two in-breaking, two out-breaking, all shallow—and knew he could contribute more. “When I’d go to talk to [Gase] about it, he’d curse me out,” he says. “ ‘Why are you telling me how to do my job?’ It got to the point where the environment was just awful.” (Through a Dolphins spokesman, Gase declined to comment.)
Landry knows his passion can sometimes be misplaced, leading to emotional outbursts on the field and in the locker room (and one ejection last season for a fight). Cam Cameron, a coach for 33 years who was Landry’s offensive coordinator at LSU, ranks him with Larry Bird and Isiah Thomas as the most competitive athletes he has been around. In the wrong environment, Cameron says, “he’s not going to be the most fun guy . . . [but] the only way you don’t succeed with him is if you don’t challenge him and push him, because deep down he won’t respect you.”
The Browns are banking on, and paying handsomely for, the energy that’s the source of Landry’s nickname, Juice. Texans All-Pro DB Tyrann Mathieu, Landry’s former LSU teammate, says he has seen only one other offensive player—running back Marshawn Lynch when he was a Seahawk—who acts as the emotional tone-setter for the entire team. “Jarvis Landry is the type of football player we want on this team for a long time,” Cleveland GM John Dorsey said in announcing the trade. “Obviously, he’s an accomplished playmaker . . . but in his short time as a Brown we can already see the type of leadership and competitiveness he’s going to bring to his teammates.”
Receivers coach Adam Henry says that Landry will be asked to play both inside and outside, that he’ll run the full repertoire of routes; he’ll be both the perfect possession receiver to help quarterbacks Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield and another big-play threat next to Josh Gordon (whenever it is that Gordon sees the field) to spread things deep. Maybe then Landry won’t be viewed as just a slot receiver—or, better yet, he will have shown that the label is no slight.
DJ Smoov spins Drake tracks from his perch overlooking the Saks showroom floor as Landry winds his way through racks of high-end clothing during an afternoon trip to the Beachwood mall. He is with his girlfriend, Estrella Cerqueira, who is wearing a maroon CLEVELAND OR NOWHERE hoodie, and Joy, their 15-month-old daughter, decked out in a pink Nike jumpsuit. The whole clan needs new wardrobes, as the climates in Miami and Cleveland are, well, quite different. As he browses cold-weather wear, Landry pushes Joy in a pink Urbini stroller, black Gucci bag filled with diapers and baby bottles hanging over his shoulder. Several fans approach as he shops. “We are counting on you,” one says. Another adds that all they are asking for is just one win, after the Browns last season became only the second team in NFL history to go 0–16. “I promise you more than that,” Landry says. “I promise you.”
Holding his daughter on his left hip, Landry picks out an Alexander McQueen long-sleeved shirt, a Givenchy sweater, a Burberry coat, a pair of Gucci shoes. He is escorted to a private fitting room upstairs, replete with a tray of chocolate-covered strawberries; a hostess opens a bottle of champagne as he enters. He revels in the warm reception. “[In Miami] no one appreciated s---,” he says. “Here it’s blue-collar, it’s hard-working. People that actually appreciate what you bring to the table.”
As he tries on the outfits—the arms are too tight on the Givenchy—Landry lauds new offensive coordinator Todd Haley and touts the talent on the Browns’ roster. “You’ll be lucky if we don’t score 40 on you,” he says. “If we get everyone playing to their potential, we can win the Super Bowl this year.”
After Landry leaves the dressing room, a fan operating a custom T-shirt stand spots him from the floor above and shouts to him over the railing. With three Cuyahoga County cops on mall patrol flanking Landry—ostensibly for protection, but really because they just want to be near him—he heads upstairs.
Landry daps up the T-shirt purveyor, who says he’s been meaning to buy Landry’s jersey; he’ll buy it right now if the receiver will sign it. So they make their way to a Lids store, where Landry’s jersey is directly behind the cashier. He signs “Be Great” on the number 8.
Eventually the cops guide Landry and his family out of the mall and into the parking lot, shopping bags in hand (total damage: about $3,000). They apologize for the overcast weather and say that on days like this, Landry must miss Miami. He doesn’t. Because now he has a chance to show all that he can do on a football field for a team that wants him and fans who appreciate him.
As they reach their rental car, Landry shakes each officer’s hand. “God bless,” one cop says. “We are so excited to have you in Cleveland.”
I'm sure Jarvis can make the difference, not so sure he alone will make the difference.....
His position is key, and very special, in the sense that in order to make the difference he will have to take physical risks...
Like anyone playing his position,I'm sure he will do it to tip the scale and get the W's, not sure if he will put his body on the line for a 3-4 W season...
I'm not expecting JL to make the difference, if anyone is going to do it is Haley...
WOW ... I may have underestimated him ... hard to believe ... *L* ...
Thanks for sharing ... what a great intro to our new first down and more machine ....
Love this part ...
Landry ventures boldy into the middle, finds holes in defenses, delivers crushing blocks on larger defenders and, most important, has surer hands (just three drops in 2017) than most of his peers. Frank Wilson, LSU’s associate head coach from 2012 to ’15, believes that Landry is the most complete and reliable receiver in the league. While Beckham performed feats that he’d never seen before, Wilson says, “when we were in critical situation and needed a completion, a touchdown, a two-point conversation, a first down, needed to continue a two-minute drill, we threw the ball to Jarvis Landry.”
It was kinda funny, I couldn't understand why Miami would let him go... I mean I see his attitude here in interviews and on Hard Knocks,, I see camp film making one catch after the other... I see him in Preseason games and my first thought it, if it's thrown his way, he's going to track it down and bring it in.
I guess they have such good receivers down there that they don't need a guy to do what he's done in the last few years... Oh well.
I can handle a few penalties if he can keep the boys fired up. Some of those other WR don't seem to have much passion to be honest. Landry definitely elevates the entire offense's level of passion.
I can handle a few penalties if he can keep the boys fired up. Some of those other WR don't seem to have much passion to be honest. Landry definitely elevates the entire offense's level of passion.
You say that until it's 4th quarter, under the two min mark, 3rd and long, he makes this fabulous catch for the first and it gets called back for taunting.
It's a hard thing to balance. One hand says, yes. I love the fire, the passion and it elevates the team. The other says it hurts and gets us into trouble. I will also take some of those penalties and enjoy the fire more so than the punishment, though. Especially when you see someone who got paid and hasn't lost any of the fire after "pay day."
Still, it is OK to play smart and get your "fire fix" in non-flag ways. But he is a difference maker. We had some weak routes IMO and separation is still a serious thing. The OC had a pretty good game for preseason in my opinion.
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
I agree with you and I hope I'm wrong. The price to trade for him was very cheap, but the extension was not.
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
I agree with you and I hope I'm wrong. The price to trade for him was very cheap, but the extension was not.
U guys are COCO PUFFS ... its like u have no clue how nfl salaries work ... your all peed cause when he signed he had the 5th highest yearly average and was way overpaid ...
I keep hearing about his contract .... well how about a REALITY CHECK ...
Since he’s signed it the IMMORTAL Brandin Cooks has surpassed him in the WR payouts based on average ... that moved him down to 6th ... is that better .... ...
Brandin Cooks better than Vice Grips ..... ....
Then the IMMORTAL Stephen Diggs signed a big one and moved up to 9th on the list ....
AB is 1 and Hop is 3 .... hop should be 2 ... so thats pretty accurate ...
#2 is Mike Evans .... is he even top 5? ... is he better than Vice Grips? ...
Vice Grips is WAY BETTER than #4 and 5 ... Cooks and Watkins respectively ..
By the end of this year Vice Grips will be down another spot, maybe 2 or even 3 ... by the end of next off season he’ll be 9th or 10th on the list ... by the start of year 3 he’ll be a BARGAIN!!!!
Dude needs to grow up ... u cant stop and quit on a play to whine to the refs ... u FIGHT THROUGH it and make it look as bad as u can ... U DON’T QUIT ... u whine when the plays over ... he had a legite gripe on both of those ...
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
Playoff Games? I think you meant Pre Season games right?
Landry will make the team, that's certain. So I've got to believe they are giving the other guys a shot to see what they have.
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
Playoff Games? I think you meant Pre Season games right?
Landry will make the team, that's certain. So I've got to believe they are giving the other guys a shot to see what they have.
I understand how it works. And I said when the contract was signed that I doubt he'll be here the life of the contract.
I think Jarvis Landry is very very good at what he does. But what he does, does that warrant the contract he received? There are things I obviously like about him. But in my mind he's not a #1 WR. I also like Cooks over Watkins. I think the Chiefs are crazy, but maybe I'm wrong there, too?
Sure, it's not my money and I don't care what we do with it. I'm just thinking out loud like all of you.
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
I agree with you and I hope I'm wrong. The price to trade for him was very cheap, but the extension was not.
Its not my money, and we are so far from cap, so I don't care.
Landry was a great addition, lets see how he behaves. Starting to think his was a good deal for Miami also.
I catch a lot of flack on here about my opinion on Jarvis. But at this point, watching 3 playoff games, I will be surprised if I'm wrong (I do hope I'm wrong) and he actually lives up to his contract. It's preseason, I know. And yes, he's good, never denied that, but I don't see him as one of the top 5 or 6 WR in the league.
I agree with you and I hope I'm wrong. The price to trade for him was very cheap, but the extension was not.
U guys are COCO PUFFS ... its like u have no clue how nfl salaries work ... your all peed cause when he signed he had the 5th highest yearly average and was way overpaid ...
I keep hearing about his contract .... well how about a REALITY CHECK ...
Since he’s signed it the IMMORTAL Brandin Cooks has surpassed him in the WR payouts based on average ... that moved him down to 6th ... is that better .... ...
Brandin Cooks better than Vice Grips ..... ....
Then the IMMORTAL Stephen Diggs signed a big one and moved up to 9th on the list ....
AB is 1 and Hop is 3 .... hop should be 2 ... so thats pretty accurate ...
#2 is Mike Evans .... is he even top 5? ... is he better than Vice Grips? ...
Vice Grips is WAY BETTER than #4 and 5 ... Cooks and Watkins respectively ..
By the end of this year Vice Grips will be down another spot, maybe 2 or even 3 ... by the end of next off season he’ll be 9th or 10th on the list ... by the start of year 3 he’ll be a BARGAIN!!!!
Dude needs to grow up ... u cant stop and quit on a play to whine to the refs ... u FIGHT THROUGH it and make it look as bad as u can ... U DON’T QUIT ... u whine when the plays over ... he had a legite gripe on both of those ...
GROW UP VICE GRIPS ...
Let also not forget 4 years 100 ball average each year, with whom exactly throwing him the ball? lol.
Dude has had Matt Moore, Ryan Tannehill, and a washed up Jay Cutler smoking cigs throwing him the ball.
Nah, the poster children were Donte Whitner (esp. being from Cleveland) and Karlos Dansby. One ended up being a decent signing, the other was a very poor one.
Landry is part of a syndrome around here. year in year out the Browns have had the worst WRs as a unit in the NFL. Robiskie Morgan Massaquoi Wilson Bowe Hall Britt Louis Hubbard etc etc when a new WR is signed as a free agent especially around here hes showered with praise and endless fawning because last years WR are so porous any new face really looks better than what he is. Landry is a very WR for what he is. hes a middle of the field WR that will catch anything buts not consistantly going to get behind a defense he lacks a 2nd gear to blow past press or off man coverage he will move the chains but hes not a TD maker 22 TDs. he averages a TD every 19 20.catches. hes the 4th or 5th best WR in the AFC North.
By the end of this year Vice Grips will be down another spot, maybe 2 or even 3 ... by the end of next off season he’ll be 9th or 10th on the list ... by the start of year 3 he’ll be a BARGAIN!!!!
And less than a week later Vice Grips drops another spot ...
Odell Beckham - WR - Giants
Giants signed WR Odell Beckham to a five-year, $95 million extension through 2023.
The deal includes $65 million guaranteed. Both the guaranteed money and Beckham's average annual value of $19 million are new records for a receiver. It's the logical, deserved outcome for a 25-year-old wideout who has 38 touchdowns through 47 NFL games. Beckham began his career with three-straight 1,300-yard seasons before last year's injury-shortened campaign. He's a special player, one capable of housing any pass for a monster score.
Source: Josina Anderson on Twitter Aug 27 - 2:12 PM
VICE GRIPS BABY ... oobernooboer ... thanks for thinking of me dawg .... i really like the FACT that VICE GRIPS catches THE F’NG BALL!!!!!! And no play demonstrates just how VICED his GRIPS are ... ...
He ain’t perfect ... dumb ass let the ball to get his chest ... not sure he ever gave the
VICE GRIPS a chance .... *L* ....
That was the 3rd drop i can remember ... not sure whats going on ... he barley dropped that many the last two years combined ...
Also not happy with his tude ... he’s gonna get us some 15 yarder this year ... not just one ...
His tude is GREAT in so many ways ... he’s got us 30 yards so far getting under others skin ... thats good ... problem is he could have been penalized for kicking at dude in the Jets game ... he’s come close a few other times ...
But .. end of the day ...
I LOVE ME SOME VICE GRIPS ...
The man can ball ... and u haven’t really even seen his run after catch .... hes not fast or strong .... but man is he quick and stronger than he looks ... he’s gonna break tackles and worm and squirm his way for 2 - 5 exte yards every reception .. he has an uncanny ability to get to the first down marker no matter how many defenders stand in his way ... if i have to use one word to describe him it would ....
DETERMINED ...
Nuttin’s standing in his way ...
I think its very fitting that the play that i think defined that night is the above pass to VICE GRIPS ...
If Bake’s any good ... the futures bright Dawg ...
I've said it before, but it might actually be a good thing that Baker had to play with the 2nd team so much ... develop that chemistry with Higgins, Willies, Chubb, etc
I don't know about pipiest cfrs, after seeing Baker in action, I bet FA number 1 WRs will be trying to get here. If I was a WR, I couldn't imagine a better place to go IMHO.
I don't know about pipiest cfrs, after seeing Baker in action, I bet FA number 1 WRs will be trying to get here. If I was a WR, I couldn't imagine a better place to go IMHO.
He is also the only consistent threat we have right now. As Calloway, Higgins, and Njoku become more consistent targets, Landry's opportunities will come. Right now teams are scheming against him.
Are people still holding out hope on him, or do I get to say I told ya so?
I think we're starting to see him being better utilized. I'll withhold judgement until we have a larger sample size.
He's not even been on the field as much. He went from doing things he wasn't good at to doing very few things.
His snap count has dropped off, but he used to be in almost 100% of the time, and it's not like someone else has taken up the slack. I think it has more to do with how he's being used, how all the WRs are being used, and the fact we're running more & using Chubb more. Landry still gets 60-70% of the snaps.
Never understood why Browns fans always want to get rid of our talent..
Makes no sense.
Whether he's worth the pay or not, he's a key piece to this offense. Very glad landry is on this team.
I don't think anyone has said we should get rid of him. I said that we could out of his contract after next season if he doesn't live up to it.
Are we in such a bind, Cap wise, that we can not afford to keep an ALL PRO, RECORD BREAKING Wide Receiver on the team ? This is not Dwayne Bowe. We are talking about a young receiver who still catches the ball and is not on drugs! We still have more Cap Money than any team in the league. Use the money on TALENT. Landry is TALENT !
Not right now, but at some we are going to have to pay all these draft picks.
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
Cap wise, that we can not afford to keep an ALL PRO, RECORD BREAKING Wide Receiver on the team ?
Right now? Yes. A year from now? Probably. Two years from now? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Also, he's never been All-Pro and his record is stat padded because of the inept Ryan Tannehill
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
This is not Dwayne Bowe.
No one said he was.
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
We are talking about a young receiver who still catches the ball and is not on drugs!
Fair points.
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
We still have more Cap Money than any team in the league.
This is not true
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
Use the money on TALENT. Landry is TALENT !
Agreed. But overpaid is overpaid. We need to see Landry do more.
I've said this before, but one of the problems with having so many good young players: at some point they ALL have to be paid .. and that day comes sooner than you realize. I mean, after next year Garrett will want a BOAT LOAD of money. Ogbah will want less, but still a fair amount. So will Schobert. So will Chubb. BAKER. ETC.
Not saying to cut Jarvis, just looking at our cap situation honestly.
I've said this before, but one of the problems with having so many good young players: at some point they ALL have to be paid .. and that day comes sooner than you realize. I mean, after next year Garrett will want a BOAT LOAD of money. Ogbah will want less, but still a fair amount. So will Schobert. So will Chubb. BAKER. ETC.
Not saying to cut Jarvis, just looking at our cap situation honestly.
Well, that's a sign that we are getting good. Good teams are bound to face cap problems
The trick is the ability to keep on spotting and developing talent.
I've said this before, but one of the problems with having so many good young players: at some point they ALL have to be paid .. and that day comes sooner than you realize. I mean, after next year Garrett will want a BOAT LOAD of money. Ogbah will want less, but still a fair amount. So will Schobert. So will Chubb. BAKER. ETC.
Not saying to cut Jarvis, just looking at our cap situation honestly.
Landry is in year 1 of a 5 year 75,500,000 dollar contract with $ 34,000,000 Guaranteed. The Salary cap charge for year 1 is $ 15,500,000. The full guarantee is made up of Landry's 2018 and 2019 base salaries, a $10.5 million 2018 roster bonus, and a $7.5 million signing bonus. $13 million of Landry's 2020 salary is guaranteed for injury and will become fully guaranteed on the 5th day of the league year. The final two contract years have $750,000 per game bonuses and there are annual workout bonuses of $50,000 starting in 2019.
In other words .. the guarantee is front loaded. How about we wait and see how things go before starting a campaign to get the guy shipped off to help another team win a Super Bowl. With all the turmoil the offense has gone through this year, doesn't it make sense to have a receiver who catches the ball and WANTS TO BE HERE, not just collecting a paycheck.
We need a #1 WR, to take the top off, so that Landry will then be able to do what he does best, be a slot receiver.
Remember last year, when Peppers looked like crap because he was played out of position? This is similar. Though Landry looks better this year than Peppers did last year.
Landry is now playing roughly 60% of the 2018 snaps in the slot and has run a route on 94% of passing plays. He's #7 IN THE NFL in targets, #5 IN THE NFL in target market share, #2 IN THE NFL in red zone targets and yet in production has only:
630 yards and 2 TDs on 60 catches.
The problem is he is turrible with YAC at 2.6 per reception (#45 in the NFL). He equalled or surpassed 50 total receiving yards in only 2 of the last 5 games; 3 in the last 8. His reception total ranking among NFL recievers has dipped pretty significantly which could mean a myriad of different things.
He is overrated. He was paid like a #1 and is not a #1.
Overpaid maybe, over-rated, I don't think so. Most knew exactly what he was when he came here. He spent most of the the season being improperly utilized on the outside. He's certainly not a deep threat. Perhaps his high salary made them think he needed to play outside to justify that salary. What makes him worth the money, in my view, is his leadership and attitude. He is instrumental in changing perceptions in the locker room and probably directly responsible (at least in some way) for cutting the distractions and poor attitudes attributed to Coleman & Gordon. Fast forward to present day, He's being more properly utilized, particularly because of the emergence of Callaway, Perriman, and the return of Higgins, and because Kitchens seems to scheme to the talent he has. We should see good production from him the remainder of the season as he and Baker get on the same page and Kitchens finds more and more uses for his possession-type abilities. Bottom line, he's worth the money and we need him on this team. He's the heart and soul of that squad and has given the WR room (and possibly the entire offense, maybe even team) an attitude and work ethic that has been lacking for decades.
I don't understand the Landry bashing. It seems petty to me.
While I agree he may not be proving to be worth his contract, he's still a good player who's part of the solution, not the problem, IMO. His contract has not caused any issues to date. This conversation seems it would be relevant if and when his contract did cause issues.
Before the end of the season he will make a big catch or have a big game that helps us win. I'm good with that.
He's still a good player who's part of the solution, not the problem, IMO. His contract has not caused any issues to date.
"Good" is a relative term and, quite frankly, I'm not sure if he is part of the solution-- there really isn't anything to indicate that. You are correct in saying that his contract isn't causing any issues and may not next year either. It was a bad decision to throw that much money at him and like many people have suggested, Duke Johnson could easily be doing what we're asking Landry to do. He really could.
I think a poster accurately suggested we have been playing Landry wrong from the very beginning. I think we're starting to see the team play him more inside as a slot guy and I hope we continue to do that. I just don't think you pay players primarily dependant on being successful in the slot that amount of money, especially for what Landry does. On a macro level, and this has been an issue documented in the past, is Dorsey is a horrible money managment guy when it comes to personnel contracts. This looks like an early indication of that trend continuing. I hope we have someone in Berea that can corrale that.
Bottom line, I don't think he is that "good" and we could have identified people who were better, and cheaper, to do what Landry is doing for this team.
I really don't even know if he'll be here next year.
I also believe he won't be here the life of his contract.
He and Baker don't really mesh well because Baker isn't going to use him. Baker's game isn't to check down and throw it underneath where Landry lives. Baker's game is to go for the homerun. Now, someone is going to march in here and we better fix that, he can't do that. But he will.
Sure the money on Landry right now is not relevant because we have a lot of cap space... but that money would be far better served on a deep threat Baker can cozy up with.
Also, I don't think anyone is bashing Landry. He does decent for what he is... but that isn't going to translate into wins for the Browns. My point was that I made comments about Landry here and was laughed at and made fun of, even called deceitful, however as it is, I was right. Is it too early to make that call? Go ahead and say that if you like, but we already know....
Landry was one of, if not the, top WRs available in FA (I don't remember most of the other guys that got signed, so go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong).
You are going to overpay in FA. Let's say it again... You are going to overpay in FA. That's just the nature of the beast. Further, you're not going to get a discount from vets when you're coming off an 0'fer season like we did.
You are going to overpay (for talent) in FA.
If you don't like overpaying for established talent, don't participate in FA (or just sign kickers and long-snappers).
He's not going ANYWHERE, yet. He will be here and deserves to be.
No, his numbers are not video game like and no, he is not going to get his 100-catch average this year, BUT he is solid, reliable, and one helluva example of how to be a professional WR. He runs great routes, has great hands, has a phenomenal work ethic, and a fantastic attitude in addition to being a solid player on the field.
Furthermore, if you are evaluating him by only looking at the numbers on paper and not by looking at how he plays in games, you are missing EVERYTHING. Dude leaves it all out there and FIGHTS for YAC. HARD.
Miami knew it couldnt afford him and got a 4th rounder for him. One point not making: take him off the field, does Baker still have the numbers he does right now? I don't know
j/c...I will admit I was a little disappointed in his play once Baker took over. He seemed much less of a force than Higgins was. Then I realized that our Brain Trust of Hue/Haley, you know the two guys who Dorsey kicked out of here. They chose to not have Landry and Baker throw any passes or work together. Meanwhile in the onset he worked a lot with Higgins and actually so much so that Higgins was promoted to the upper echelon of our WR crew.
Now that we are primarily working in game plans for each week the time has passed (training camp and preseason) for that kismet between WR and QB has passed. Its so obvious as I mentioned Higgins a 5th round draft pick looks better than the ALL PRO Landry does with our Rookie QB Baker. No wonder those two nitwits are gone. Man dumbest thing I've seen in my history of football. Not letting the Overall #1 pick work with any of the ones...AT ALL usually you will see the #2 QB get 20% of the reps. But all Baker got was Scout team reps.
Not liking Hue and the job he did here more and more. Quite frankly I don't even think he was on board for the drafting of Baker. He went along with Dorsey to keep his job.
jmho In a good off season with each other working out together I think they will become an excellent tandem. Heck he looked pretty good with TT throwing him the ball and he could not throw a pass over 10 yards.
I think Landry is a square block in a round hole in this offense. He's asked to do things that he's not good at. I think next year after a capable coaching staff can design their own offense that Landry and Mayfield could be the formidable duo ala brady/edelman/amendola
landry is the guy that garners the attention. That will begin to change as Njoku is starting to catch the ball more. Callaway is starting to become a bit more consistent. He simply doesn't see a lot of the one on one stuff, he seems to always have a safety or linebacker leaning coverage his way.
This has actually really opened up a lot of those screens and swing passes. Also the job landry has done in the run game has been instrumental in Chubb's big runs. He is the tone setter out there. HE sets an example in practice and in meeting rooms for this young team.
His numbers will improve as the team improves. For most of the year he was the only thing on offense teams really had to prepare for because everyone else was just a ??? Lets see how these next 5 play out. I think he is due for a breakout. I think it could be this week.
I really see both sides of the debate here and agree with both. Wishy washy...I know.
I'll add that I think he was the right guy - or right kind of guy - at the right time. Yeah...we probably are over-paying him. But coming off a bad run and having zero credibility, he instantly alleviated some of that...before the season even started.
I have no doubt that he is rubbing off on the young guys. Beggars can't/couldn't be choosers.
Landry is a competent member of what is a rather lackluster WR room. We have a million more things that need upgrading before Landry does.
He isn't a dynamic legit 1 like Jones, Hopkins, etc. but he is a high end number 2 that can be used as a one for teams like us. If we put him with a guy Ds have to gameplay for over the top deep.....he would be awesome. I guess the hope is Calloway develops, because I don't see a WR that can really be that guy in this year's draft.
I'm glad we are finding less things to complain about. .
Football is fun again.
For Jarvis Landry, winning trumps all
Jimmy Watkins CONTRIBUTOR
Jarvis Landry views himself as one of the best receivers in the league, and his constant record-setting reception pace supports his claim.
But while the Browns offense has exploded, Landry has been relatively quiet.
Cleveland’s offense, led by new coordinator Freddie Kitchens, has created opportunities for Landry’s teammates, but Landry’s role hasn’t been depended upon as much as he was during the first half of the season. The Browns have won their last two games with Landry seeing the ball less (five targets each game) than he has since 2016. It’s quite the dichotomy for the three-time Pro-Bowler.
“I am a competitor, I want to do my part,” Landry said. “I do not want to be one of those guys that came here and got a check and did not earn it. I want to earn my check to some degree. But at the same time, it is translating into wins. For me, that is what is most important.”
Winning is all that matters to Landry but Landry understandably wants to play more of a part in those wins. Part of the reason for his peace of mind is his belief that his opportunities will return.
That trust is a two-way street. Landry believes he’ll be targeted more eventually; Kitchens believes Landry won’t make a fuss about the targets. So far, so good. “I do not think it is a problem,” Kitchens said. “Jarvis understands that there is progression in routes, and progression in reads and if he is covered, somebody else is open. Ultimately, it is about winning.”
That's the sentiment echoed throughout the locker room, and it’s not like Landry isn’t contributing to these wins. Even when Landry’s not being targeted, he’s commanding attention, often from the opponents’ best defensive backs.
He’s also the most experienced receiver on the Browns’ roster. He leads his young position mates in everything they do. Coach Gregg Williams mentioned that Landry accepting a lesser role is helping the Browns break out of tendencies and catch defenses off guard.
The results deserve no explanation. The Browns offense is peaking over the last few weeks. It’s good for the offense as a whole for Baker Mayfield to complete passes to so many different receivers. It’s good to feature multiple weapons for defenses to worry about. And it’s impossible not to notice how much better the Browns have looked while sharing the offensive glory.
Landry believes the big plays will come. Maybe this stretch of reduced targets will even play a part in his resurgence.
“To have a good view about it, everybody else making plays — it’s gonna come a time where defenses are gonna have to respect everybody,” Landry said. “Then I can get my matchup that I want and make the plays.”
“To have a good view about it, everybody else making plays — it’s gonna come a time where defenses are gonna have to respect everybody,” Landry said. “Then I can get my matchup that I want and make the plays.”
Landry is a total stud. Defenses know that and cover him very heavily. He is absolutely the defenses top priority in coverage. He still makes catches in double and triple coverage because the dude is fearless in making his catches.
He brings a passion that fires up the entire offense including Baker. That value he brings to the mental state of our offense is immeasurable especially to a young QB like Baker.
That being said he is NOT a true #1 WR. Haley used him that way and it's why he was not as effective. To be fair to Haley, with the injury bug at WR and Gordon sent packing he got put into a role he was not originally meant to be playing. Kitchens is being a lot smarter about it and moving him all around and forcing defenses to seek him out and find him. This is really opening things up for the other WRs and now that Higgins is back it's having a HUGE impact. I am a big fan of Higgins and I hope we resign him long term but I see him in direct competition with Landry as they tend to have the same style of game.
I think with Calloway starting to find his stride and emerging as a dependable WR it will also open things up for Landry. I don't know if Call will become our #1 WR or not but he can at least become our #2. Landry will always do his best work as a #2 or #3 WR because he is a tough as nails possession WR who makes the tough catches under pressure. It's also a big reason he doesn't have huge YAC stats because he is always catching in heavy traffic when the down and the game is on the line.
He is not overpaid at all and our offense would be putrid without him drawing regular double and triple coverages.
U know bro ... your right ... he is not a “true # 1” ... i said that from day 1 ... but u know what .. lets go through the list ... bet theres a DOZEN TEAMS he’d be the #1 on ...
He does not have the ELITE SKILLS like Julio or AB or Hop ... he’s not as big and fast as Evans or Golladay (kids a STUD ... those that follow the game know ... the rest of ya’all will be fully aware by some oint in the 2020 season) ...
But he’s PLENTY DANG GOOD ...
This is just not about VICE GRIPS not being a #1 is my point ... no, he’s not a TRUE #1 but he does not SUCK AT IT like i get the feeling some are saying ...
Look at THIS O ... lets see ...
- 2nd qb starting this year that happens to be a ROOK that got basically no snaps with the #1’s
- 2nd OC and HC for the year
- original OC never seemed to alter his playbook when the rook took over .. cause there games were so similar ...
I DON’T DO EXCUSES ... this man can play and play at a HIGH LEVEL ...
DUDES not a true #1 but he is ONE HELL OF A PLAYMAKER!!!
Teams he would be a #1 on ... hope theres at least 12 ... *L* ..
Pitt - No Cinci - No Rats - BY A MILE .. make that 10 miles .. *L*
Indi - No Tenn - close .. we’ll go no this time .. J-village - yes Hou - nope
Oak - yup KC - nope Denver - yes on a coin flip SD - nope
Pats - maybe in that O .. no on a coin flip Jets - yup Jills - yup Fish - yup ...
HOLY CRAP A DIVISION W/O a #1 right now ... Josh may be one .. not now ..
So thats 6 yeses by my count ...
GB - nope Chi - yes on a coin flip Minni - im gonna say no ... but this is close ... id say Diggs is there #1 cause of his speed .. Adam has basically the same skill set as VICE GRIPS ... but most of u won’t agree ... so its a no ... Detroit - nope
NO - no Atl - no Carolina - yes TB - No
Dall - no .... i would say yes .. not a fan of coops ... ya’all would have a stroke .. Wash - yes NYG - no Phili - yes
Rams - no cause they don’t have a #1 ... hes better than any of them individually .. but thats a TRUE RECIEING CORPS ... SF - yes Seattle - right now ... yes ... thats not right ... no ... it’s Baldwin ... not this year cause hes hurt ... thats the closest thing to S. Smith we have today .. hes not steve but the man can ball ... Zona - i say yes but out of respect for Fitz i’ll Say No ...
So i was one off ... it was 11 ... actually thought it would be more ...
Dude is not a true #1 ... hes also better than a HIGH END #2 ...
He’s a PLAYMAKER that helps u WIN GAMES ...
Thats how i “QUALIFY” him ...
I have zero doubt if Bake is who we think he is .....
We’ll see plenty of plays like we did in the Jets game that lead directly to victories out of that duo ...
I think a lot of what is being said isn't 100% true. I don't think he's being double teamed nearly as much as people think. In fact he's been wide open a lot of the times, Baker just doesn't throw underneath.
He's not the first down machine everyone claimed he was when he came here. In fact he's one of the worst in the league. Actually, he's exactly who he was when he was in Miami. Everyone said he will be better here. We're gonna have to wait.
We waited 11 games which apparently isn't enough time for a 4 yr vet. Now we have to wait until next year. Landry will be in his 6th season and we're still waiting.
Landry is now playing roughly 60% of the 2018 snaps in the slot and has run a route on 94% of passing plays. He's #7 IN THE NFL in targets, #5 IN THE NFL in target market share, #2 IN THE NFL in red zone targets and yet in production has only:
630 yards and 2 TDs on 60 catches.
The problem is he is turrible with YAC at 2.6 per reception (#45 in the NFL). He equalled or surpassed 50 total receiving yards in only 2 of the last 5 games; 3 in the last 8. His reception total ranking among NFL recievers has dipped pretty significantly which could mean a myriad of different things.
He is overrated. He was paid like a #1 and is not a #1.
I agree...Laundry his entire NFL career has been just a slightly better than average receiver. And that's all he will ever be. But on "this" team he looks like a Superstar because he is the best WR we have. When and if the Browns ever acquire a top playmaker the difference will be clear. Doesnt mean I dont like him. I love his play, I love his contribution but a Superstar he's not.
Sometimes i wonder if some of u EVER watch anything but browns games and highlights ... and if u do .. i have to wonder if u have any clue what your watching ...
This thread right here proves it for most of u ...
Its like the first three years of his career were just some lucky fluke ... ALL THREE OF THEM ...
Seems to me that J Landry falls into that category we call 'complimentary player.' He can't be considered a #1 WR, but I don't think that's his best game anyway.
Book on him is that he's quick but not fast. Runs good-great routes and catches most of what comes his way.
That ain't chopped liver, and teams NEED guys who fit this description. I think he's a good/very good #2, and quite welcome on this squad. My main gripe about trading away Gordon was that it would force Landry into a role he's less suited for. Gordon's presence would force double teams, leaving Landry to exploit the middle of the field and all those 12-25 yard routes.
Super important, because those are the plays that move chains.
I love seeing big splashy bombs for 6, but short to intermediate reliability is just as valuable to a team, if not more so.
Predix: If we can secure a true #1 either by draft, trade or FA, Landry will become even more valuable next year.
I have to laugh at the guy above complaining that he "only" has 630 yards. How many games do we have left? Is Baker making it a point to hit the open man? Has the poster noticed the blocks this guy throws down field? Do they notice that he does get most of the attention from the defense?
Landry is a stud. He may not have the flashy plays, but he is a very valuable piece on this offense. When the outside guys start making more of an impact, things will open up for him.
This is all still well and good. The point is there are better and cheaper options. It's not like we're trying to run routes with Gary Coleman or Stevie Wonder. He has value, but just not for what we are paying.
I'm the guy and I'm not complaining. I'm pointing out facts. But I have to laugh at the guy who comments without knowing what is the argument.
There are 5 games left. Based on his averages, he should finish with about 88 catches for 920 yds and 3 TD.
These are pretty much similar numbers he had in Miami when we made him one the top 10 highest paid wide receivers. Are these numbers worth what we are paying? I'll wait...
I'm the guy and I'm not complaining. I'm pointing out facts. But I have to laugh at the guy who comments without knowing what is the argument.
There are 5 games left. Based on his averages, he should finish with about 88 catches for 920 yds and 3 TD.
These are pretty much similar numbers he had in Miami when we made him one the top 10 highest paid wide receivers. Are these numbers worth what we are paying? I'll wait...
When we "Paid" Landry, we also had Gordon. Everyone had a role to play, except Gordon's role, other than being the big, fast, # 1 receiver, was late to meetings, late to practice, saying he was hurt, as well as everyone being worried about relapse. Maybe Williams could have straightened him out. Hue appeared to coddle him. Dorsey felt as though he did not want to put up with anymore and traded him. Has anyone noted that Landry's best game was when Gordon was here ? The offense is still a work in progress and Landry is a very big part of that work.
I may be arguing over very very very small differences in what verbage is used ... in this case for some reason WORDS are IMPORTANT to me ...
U said he’s a complimentary guy ... to me thats “downgrading” him ... i may be “parsing” words here (i think thats what i mean anyhow .. *LOL* ... one thing i can always count on ... one of my fellow dawgs will help me with any grammatical mistakes i make ... no worries there .. *L*) ..
He’s more than a “complimentary” guy or a real good #2 ... he’s a PLAYMAKER ... there’s maybe 20 - 25 TRUE PLAYMAKERS at that position in the nfl ...
He’s not a #1 but hes also NOT JUST a
- high end two - complimentary guy - slot reciever
To me ... those “labels” demean his value ....
On a side note ...
All u menZas that think we overpaid ...
Please give me a list of all the WR’su believe OUR BETTER BLOCKERS than VICE GRIPS ..
Also would like the list of WR’s that have gotten not one but two 15 yard penalties accessed against the DB’s covering them simply for blocking them to hard and genearally getting under their skin? ...
OR DON’T THOSE THINGS COUNT cause they dont fill up the stat sheet ...
Not to mention ... in that room ... u don’t think each and everyone of those YOUNG PUPS in that room DON’T WANNA EMULATE THE RECORD SETTING PRO BOWL RECIEVER we have in the room ... u think maybe VICE GRIPS HAS HAD SOME INFLUENCE on how HARD THEY BLOCK and how much PRIDE they take in doing it ..
Whats Nick got 3 long runs now ... WONDER HOW HE FEELS ABOUT VICE GRIPS and his boys ...
I guess the guy I’m looking for is Fitz ... one of the best to ever play the game ... no one argues that ... not at the top of the list but he’s there and hes prolly the least physically gifted guy on it ...
He was a “SLOT RECIEVER” .... his play over the years has gotten him over that moniker ...
Steve Largeant was also a “SLOT RECIEVER” ... he’s not thought of as a #2 or a “complimentary” guy ...
And they say he can’t beat double coverage ... well there was one game they had Billicheck mic’d up .. the game plan was to stop vice grips .. he had well over 100 that day ... billicheck was SCREAMING at his d coaches and players wanting to know how they couldnt stop him ... THEY NEVER DID THAT DAY ... he was the sole focus of the D ...
THERES LOTS GOING ON HERE that lead to his lack of production ... WITCH there should be a decline ... not in yards per or td’s but in sheer volume ...
This year we have duke and Chubb and even Njoku .. there way better than anything he ever played with in Miami ... WAY BETTER ... and i’d Take Callaway and Higgins and even Perriman over anytime they had when vice grips was there or have now ...
The kids good ... and i say that cause i was fortunate enough to watch every snap he took his first two years and most of the ones he took last year ...
He always and i mean almost every game JUMPED OFF THE TAPE AT ME ...
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