MassageEnvy needs to jump now and become the Official Massage Partners of the Cleveland Browns.
Strike while the iron is hot!

I’m ready for this circus to be done… either way

So the last thread started focusing on the cost of the acquisition.

I don't know what we offered - but based on other offers that have been floated (3 firsts + players) my observation is that Stefanski's offense does NOT require an elite QB. Stefanski's offense does not exploit or utilize and elite QB's skill set to the max ....so depending on what we give up (and my heart sinks as I expect the worst) is *probably* going to be too much for the benefit we get in return. Especially if it's a 3 year rental of Watson because he's a flake.

Oh it's only just beginning. This is a bunch of hardcore fans going back and forth. Wait till the media really dig in... you know how they love Cleveland.

No surprise at all.
When I heard about the lawyer connection, I figured it has all been decided all along. Haslam and his lawyers make it all go away, and in return he "chooses" us.

In coming up with that, I also kinda thought how easy it would have been for Haslam's people to bribe some of them to make reports to create the situation in the first place.

Seeing how Haslam works, these type of shady back room dealings wouldn't surprise me at all!

This officially makes us a bona fide AFC North organization. The Rats had the murderin' Ray Ray, the bungles had frick and frack....Pacman and Vontaze, Steelers had rapistberger and the steroid gang. I guess it's our turn with Deshaun "Happy Ending" Watson.

Steeler fans don't call Ben a rapist.. fans of other teams who wish they had a QB that led them to a SB will judge and use words to make it feel right for them., by degrading them.


Sports have players, and those players play to win what the sport offers. That is winning the championship. The sport has fans. Fans with many different views and feelings. These fans also have one thing very much in common. Winning the biggest prize. The Championship Trophy. Good seasons and bad seasons bring out the bad in all, from ownership, to coaches, to players to fans.

Being the best and winning Championships is why we watch sports. Athletes are no different from us, they play a sport, us, we weld, cook, package cut grass, IT, whatever we do, that's our jobs. We all work with people who are very different or much alike. It's the world and how life is.

We judge, we have our own views nothing will change that. People are people, some are more in the spotlight and their wrong and rights get seen and spoken of more than those who cannot be seen so well.

Every Browns fan wants the same thing. A SB Championship plain and simple. It's why you and I watch the game. All of us are sinners, all of us have faults, all of us have good in us, all of us are human.

You have to look at this as a business. The sole purpose of this business is to win Championships and make all involved happy.

If Watson comes to the Browns and wins a SB, then most of us will be happy celebrating a Championship we have been living for all our lives as a Browns fans.

It's a sport in a world that isn't perfect and sin is everywhere. In all of us !

If Watson comes here, and it upsets you and your beliefs then turn away from sports, because it will be there in all sports, all work places and in all of our daily lives.

I want to see a Championship, a SB in Cleveland.

God will take care of what he has to, to forgive those who trespass against us is what our God , if you believe wants us to do.

On a sports side of this story, get the best QB they can.

Stick together Browns fans, a SB win is near ! well, hopefully !

If Watson comes here, I am out. Its a short trip from Browns' fan to Browns' observer. I've done it before (in the 90's), I can do it again.

I’m kinda thinking the same thing. I want the browns to win of course but I also actually have to not be actively disgusted by the players, let alone the QB. I think I’m pretty much tagging out of the NFL if they land Watson. I’ve been teetering for years now, this would probably push me into the category of passive observer. I’d feel good for the city if they won it all of course but it would have a big asterisk for me if it came this way.

I don't have to like him or root for him personally, but I'm not missing out on a winning season over this POS.



This was funny.

Saints Super Bowl odds got quite a bit better in the last couple hours. Sounds like he made his decision

I think the sports books are just trying to protect themselves after it was alleged insiders placed large wagers on the Bucs winning the SB just days and hours before Brady announced his return.

Browns odds to win Super Bowl also went from 40-1 to 25-1.

Something about this stinks and I think Brady is behind it. He should be investigated for illegal gambling and collusion.

j/c...

Watson Watch seems like it's going to enter another day. Better announce tomorrow before March Madness gets all the press beginning Thursday...unless that's part of the plan. Temper the outrage from factions of fan bases while other major sporting event going on!

Rumors on Twitter-verse are that he doesn't know "is torn" and will take up to a couple days to make a decision.

Dude pitched a fit to get out of Houston, got ALL his dirty laundry aired, and now is going to try to pull a Lebron. The stones on this guy.

I do not want him. I want Baker. He will be healed and ready for next season. He doesn't have baggage. He is Cleveland. I do not want the sex predator.

Pardon me, but Baker has already played his last game for the Browns.

It will either be The Sex Predator, Jimmy G, Derek Carr, Matt Ryan or Case Keenum.

J/c…

I seem to remember the Browns crowing about wanting players with good character. They wouldn’t sign Kaepernick because he knelt during the national anthem. Now they are begging Watson to play for them and mortgaging the future to do it.
Idk seems like another Hershel Walker trade to me.
Oh great football god please let Watson choose a team other than the Browns. Haven’t we suffered enough yet?

I don't see us going anywhere but backwards if this happens. How do we go to the SB when the franchise flushes the future for one player? The price is too high and we are about to be set back again. Deshaun is not Tom Brady, he's just a shiny new object made of fools gold.

So the Browns actually want the face of their franchise to be somebody who had more than 20 women come up and accuse him of rape or sexual misconduct 20+ For years us Brown fans have labeled Big Ben as the rapist on one accusation ...Think about it OVER 20.

Also for you young guys who probably didn't know too much about this. But man this reminds me of it.

Dallas had Herschel Walker and they traded him to the Vikings for a slew of players and draft picks...similar to the trade we have just worked out for Watson.

Vikings have still not go over it meanwhile the Cowboys who in this case would be the Texans ended up with a DYNASTY.

I just cannot believe this is happening to my Browns.

I hope this trade DOES NOT GO THROUGH...and we go and move up to get Malik Willis

Sorry I have always been proud of the Browns...ok we took a shot at Hunt on a one time occurance and it turned out but I see this as the end of our franchise - Haslams will be disrespected we will lose fans those who have Mothers, wives and daughters you really wish to root for this guy? I was proud of Jim Brown and other movements but I don't think I can be proud of Deshaun.

I hate to say this but I made a thread not too long ago where I spelled out my fears that Stefanski didn't want Baker on the team as his QB...if this is the alternative Fire him....fire Berry Shame on you guys smearing the team that I love so much...this Breaks my heart and this is not a Fan Love of Baker....I've always loved the BROWNS FIRST and FOREMOST!!! Just breaks my heart. I might as well die as I've been fighting so hard so I can see my beloved Browns be Champions....now if they do that under Watson I feel cheated.

jmho

Watson is a massive upgrade to Baker.

Yeah, this isn’t debatable

I'm trying to stay neutral until I learn more (more about what we're offering, more about what Deshaun did and didn't do (though it sounds like we found out a little yesterday), but I'm definitely sliding more towards the 'thumbs down' side of the argument. I'm still hoping things work out, but I just don't think I can root for a Browns teams with Watson as its face.

... but on top of that (because this is the Browns we're talking about) even if we don't land Watson, we're still screwed at QB because our current guy stomped off into the corner and started throwing a temper tantrum on social media. Maybe his showing that he doesn't have the mental makeup to be a fQB is a blessing in disguise, but (again, because we're the Browns) by trying to upgrade the QB position we've actually soured what we did have going for us (and after most other options (and all the good ones)) are off the market.

I know it is emotional.

But it is football and that is all. Players come and go. Coaches come and go. And we have seen owners come and go.

When the foot hits the ball and the game begins. It is entertainment and it becomes about winning the game.

There are scum bags in football. People that if you really knew them you would not want any part off.

Good guys and bad guys. Not much different than anywhere you go.

I like Baker. I like try hard overachievers. I want him to succeed in Cleveland.

But if Watson becomes the quarterback. I will not dwell upon who or what he is. It will be about winning.
=========================================================================

If you are called upon to be on a jury. Your job becomes trying to determine guilt or innocence.

You watch all that takes place at the trial. The presentation of evidence. The interrogations of all parties by the prosecution and the defense.

Then you discuss that with other members of the jury. Even then the determination of the jury is not always right.

Watson deserves that process.

I am not going to pass judgement until all of the information is provided. I have patience.

You don't get it...I am not talking football I'm talking CHARACTER. I always like his football go look back at the archives about the draft.

He has excellent STATS. but unfortunately he is not a winner yet in the NFL.

That trade will cripple us and give the Texans an opportunity to become a championship. Hunt, Newsome, Baker 2 first rounders 2 2nd rounders and a 5th rounder as noted the last time a team did a trade like that the Vikings (the Browns in this instance) crippled themselves to this day they haven't gotten over it. Meanwhile the Cowboys (the Texans in this instance) went on to build a dynasty.

So we would have a sexual predator as our face of the franchise something to be proud of. Go ahead sell your soul to the Devil...not me

We don’t know what the comp will actually be until the trade actually happens bro. On top of that, he’s a certified franchise QB, which means the cost to get one is worth it.

Also, I believe he already has 2 division titles under his belt, and has already been crowned as a top 3-5 QB in this league. It’s not just his stats but his overall talent he has displayed that makes him worlds better than Baker.

I don’t think the trade will cripple us. If our 1st round picks that go to Houston ends up being 20’s and up, then I don’t understand how that’s gonna cripple us.

I’m tired of winning the draft every season. I want to win division titles. Shout out to the Rams GM, F those picks.

C'mon Saints you can do it!

I feel the same way. This will be the face of the organization. The most talked about player. If the Browns win, he is the most likely hero.
I have a wife and 2 daughters in my household, and rooting for this person as the leader of the Browns would make me feel ashamed in front of them.
The guy isn't just another person accused of rape. He is a serial predator that treats 50% of the population as sub-human. I have no other explanation for men that treat women this way.
If he is in, I am out.

So who at QB do you feel we can win a super bowl with?

Not asking me, but I'll answer anyway.

Of the QBs available, the guy is obviously Watson. Still doesn't mean I can confidently say I would root for him. Hell, I found myself rooting against OBJ and he was just your run-of-the-mill dbag.

I believe the Saint's is where he's going, credit to their FO, they started at 75m over the cap and now are sitting with 30m available.

Sign with the Falcons and trade for Matty 'old man' Ice!

So, now we gotta go after Jimmy G, Carr, Mariota, or a draft pick (or combo of both)

The salary cap is fake! I don't care what Spotrac guy says. It's a convenient excuse to release players you don't really want on the team.

What a relief if we don’t get him.

23 million and that's still a long way from 40+

23 million and that's still a long way from 40+

Being a organization with a questionable moral compass is not a winner in today’s social climate. Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski will face tough questions before all this is over. Go all in with a shady character who uses his fame to fulfill his sexual weird needs will cost the Browns lot’s of supports. Especially females will think twice before spending money on such scruple free organization. The media landscape has changed and things that was acceptable a couple of years ago can now be labeled as potential career threats. MeToo showed us what women think about behavior like this.

I simply don’t understand what the Browns is up to. They leak information that they want a “adult” QB and then five seconds later they are willing to sell the Farm and everything that comes with it to à man who’s facing 22 lawsuits. Not 1, not 5, not 10. 22. Adult? Do Berry really think that all Browns supporters are complete idiots?

Yesterday almost half of the national media sided with Baker.
Colin. Nick. Skip. Pat McA. To name a few. Some used the word “ClownShow” when describing the Cleveland Browns. 20+ years of failure. Never learn, never thoughtful about consequences.

Coincidentally (ironi) almost everything around the Browns is ending with controversy. Only the last 5 years. Hue. Greg. Dorsey. Freddie K. OBJ. Baker. Is always somebody else. The only thing that’s familiar since I started being a supporter is that the Browns is doing the headlines when it’s’ off season. You know the time when winning organizations is having holidays and is resting.

Restructure his contract. Salary cap is not an issue.

I think that's where I'm leaning, but then what? Our situation at home has eroded to the point we might have to fall back on plan c/d/e. Maybe Mayfield can put his big-boy pants back on, but this whole dog-and-pony show has created (or revealed) a potentially untenable situation.

I'm finally at the point where I feel there is too much collateral damage if we sign Watson. It's not what's best for the Cleveland Browns. Our best bet is to roll with Baker.

I have to laugh like hell when I read some of this stuff that Depo laid out as a Guideline for the franchise operations.

The last Browns/Depo "guardrail" on the left...MAKE THIS A GREAT PLACE FOR PLAYERS...

Kind of an "unfortunate", "stupid" "irresponsible" comment coming from Ownership/Front Office when we consider the stated Guardrails for the franchise operation...and given the fact that Watson had not even made a commitment to play in for Haslam or DePodesta yet.

...Looks like Watson's next team will be the New Orleans Taints.

Supposedly he is meeting again with NO, and they just finished clearing up a TON of cap space.

When it falls apart who will be next?

I personally hope Watson signs somewhere else. I've never been a fan of Baker....why, the narrative about having an adult at QB makes sense to me. Your history says something about yourself. He bet on himself and left TT for OK, well THAT says something, no loyalty to TT. Before the draft, his arrest video, running from the cop and getting knocked down, how many Franchise QBs have that on their resume. His cocky attitude, yes, plenty of superstar athletes have that....but, how many smart QBs get smacked in the middle of the field tackling a DB after throwing an interception. He's paid well to throw, not tackle....that one bonehead play cost him his and our season in hindsight. We don't know what's going on between coach/front office/and QB.....BUT, OBVIOUSLY he ain't loved by the organization OR they'd have paid him the STUPID sums QBs are making......plus, he's said goodbye to Cleveland after saying he's off social media.....I'd trade Baker and roll with Mariota- while drafting a QB this year or next......GO Browns!!!

only one way to find out.

I doubt we can roll with Baker now. That train has been blown off the tracks now. In Case of Emergency.

Yeah, I hope you realize how stupid that sounds. If you don't, you should take a step back.

j/c...

??

No worse than your response. AB has a plan.

only thing sounding stupid is your response. take a step back responding to me then if you have a problem.

At least one plan.

When this team decided to pursue Watson, they knew it was over with Baker. They may have already decided it was over before this Watson thing started.

We can get a better back than Chubb. Don't think so? Only one way to find out!

"Only one way to find out did lead us to a jersey with a parade of names down the back and a franchise that was a punchline. You don't run a professional team that way.

Bingo. Does Andrew Berry seem like the type of person that would do something without a backup plan?

As I said in my other response. Let's get rid of Chubb for someone better. Only one way to find out!

It is a dumb response.

your post toward me makes no damn sense because you acting like me or anyone else on this board has any control on how it goes down. like seriously you're getting ridiculous.

Further comment on the IQ of the Browns Ownership/Front office...the Browns actually started bad mouthing Mayfield before they even knew if Watson would play in Cleveland. Supposedly Haslam and Depo might be trying to sell Mayfield as a valuable, legit trade target for other teams.

Ownership/front office started throwing Mayfield under the bus with their "we want an 'adult' at QB" , comment before they knew what Watson might do, play for Haslam or say thanks but no thanks, not playing for a franchise with ownership like Haslam or a front office that is being run by a Baseball guy.

You can't make this "stupid crap up"...only in Cleveland..!!

j/c...

/thread

Watson to ATL.

Bring me Matty Ice!

Well, sorry for those of you who are disappointed, but I'm relieved. I don't want to be conflicted when watching my team's games.

Why didn't we do the same with Cooper if that is legal?

We can if necessary. It’ll just make his contract less flexible in the future.

We still buying this or nah?

No chance.

I am not sure how 'having any control over how it goes down' has anything to do with your statement. You made a dumb statement, you have control over that. I didnt call you out for making the decision, just for making the statement.

You can't just do something just to see how it goes, at least if you are going to be responsible. So I found your statement to be stupid. There are a ton of really bad arguments and statements on the topic, that happens to be one. No team just pulls the trigger 'to see how it goes'.

Look at another stupid statement (Not by you). Baker's post shows a complete lack of maturity and is a sign he isnt right for the job. However the person we are trying to fill that spot with is accused of harassing at least 2 dozen women. The idea that the first statement is valid, given the second, is silly. And the fact they people making the statements dont have any control over the team doesn't make the statements any less silly given the circumstances.

I am sorry that you feel your statement is above criticism and got offended. To me it shows a complete lack of thought. However in hindsight the Browns do things that way. I guess that is where Browns is the Browns came from afterall. I just dont support it.

oh well. at least we tried. so what bum are we rolling with?

Thank goodness that filth ain't coming here. Still disgusted with haslam, berry and stefanski. Clown show

Nope! I would rather we tank for a QB next year and keep building the rest of roster for the future.


Baker can hold a clip board for his immature mate in Arizona.

I'll live stream me running my left arm through a band saw if Baker is the Browns QB next year. I'm a righty so not all would be lost!

Wonder if this last act of Haslam's crap show will affect Free agents and their Agents ? Or as many have said " it's all about the money "

now you just making stuff up. im not offended whatsoever, but the fact that you felt the need to single out my post from everyone else's raised my eyebrow. from OUR perspective, there's only one way to find out. of course AB isnt gonna roll with that logic because he IS in control, and i would be disappointed if he did roll with that. you asked ME, not AB. and i responded with "there's only one way to find out" from a fan perspective.

im sure you're a dope armchair GM who knows everything about the cap and assets. i'm not and never pretended to be, im just a fan of the team.

and by the way, you talking about lack of thought despite the fact that you dont know the inner workings either. at least im not pretending like i know whats going on. you should do the same...

Keenum and Mullens it is!

j/c....

Met with Falcons a second time as well.

I singled out your post?? You know how a message board works right? Someone makes a statement and others respond. You made a statement, I responded to it. Now it sounds like I should have went asked Berry??

I am not a GM, and didn't realize I needed to be a GM to be aware that making decisions just to see how they work out sound dumb. It sounds like our new starting QB is the guy we wouldn't even play last year when our starting QB is injured. I'd say that sounds stupid...as a fan or a GM.

Again, sorry that you got so hurt that your statement was thought to be dumb.

Now we hope we can land Carr or Matt Ryan

Aren’t you the one offended since you keep responding back?

I don’t think my post was stupid whatsoever. And prior to this interaction, I never called any of your post stupid, because none of us knows the inner workings of this situation.

But if you wanna keep it going, let me know. Imma run to Jersey Mike’s right quick, and then I can entertain you til your hearts content.

HAD ENOUGH ANALYTICS YET?

Depodesta uses 'analytics' every time Haslam comes up with some hair-brained idea. The Browns use analytics as a shield that allows Haslam to keep his slimy, sticky, 'little' fingers involved in controlling the Browns franchise...something Haslam had no business being involved in.

Jimma Haslam has no clue what it takes to be a good NFL owner. The Cleveland Browns continue to be nothing but a "TOY FOR JIMMA TO PLAY WITH"..!

There are a lot of Browns coaches and players who wish they had nothing to do Jimma's Browns...imo

Good a time as any to lock the thread.

mac, you got dumped on in the thread you started. Start another if you're ready for round 2.

If not, that is Bakers fault. There is plenty of time to mend fences. If baker is in such a huff over this, then he isn't tough enough for my liking. I don't want a little wimp as the QB of the Browns.

Analytics says you need to get lost.

I'm not going to respond to the first sentence because you will just be more offended I think.

I am completely okay with you calling things I say stupid. You have a right to that opinion. I'll even debate you on them if it makes sense. It would be like we are discussing something on a message board. Had the situation been reversed this time I probably would have either not responded at all, or responded with the reasons why I felt my post wasn't stupid.

If it really bothers you I can only respond to you when I agree with you so that you don't get upset.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...face-decision-baker-mayfield-source-says

So we are out.

Now what?

I'd wager our starting QB for now is the guy that didn't get to play when Baker was injured. That is concerning.

As for Baker, the reality is he is no longer viable in Cleveland, I think your statement shows why. Everything will be viewed as his fault. Well, sorta already is I guess. The dude played all of last year injured, but if he doesnt like the way he is being treated he isnt tough enough and is a wimp. I wonder if Kaepernick would turn Cleveland down, it sure would get the NFL out of a bind maybe.

Thank you, Jeebus!

Finally!
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/ubb/editpost/Board/1/Number/1931886/what/showflat
Let’s trade Baker just so peace in the valley is back and then see what’s the best way forward. Colt or SeaHawks maybe?

This and total fiasco will follow Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski for a long time. Blame the owners all you want but these could/should have voiced their opinion much louder in case they didn’t like the idea. Being a elite GM means also to do uncomfortable stuffs.

I really want the Browns to succeed but I also want to be proud of this organization. Is that to much to ask for?

Whatever we get will be better than what we got for Landry and OBJ. Boy this team got blown up in the weirdest way.

Watson is a out.

Baker is back in the saddle.

https://www.nfl.com/news/browns-out...-trade-still-see-baker-mayfield-as-qb-of

It is still up to him. No matter if the Browns looked around, Baker is still the QB, but I do worry about him not signing here again. Just his nature, and not really a knock on him. I like Baker, didn't really want Watson, but Baker does have a fragile mind.

If I were Mayfield I'd pull what some claim Deshawn pulled. "I'm not playing for you"

We should trade Mayfield now, so we can go back to a QB carousel and 4-6 win seasons.

Much like it was PR talk when Berry said Baker was the man 2 weeks ago ... I believe it is 100% trade PR talk now. With their monumental ineptitude the Browns FO have signaled to the NFL that they are moving on from Baker and now any value he has has been reduced significantly.

Hope the National and Local media punk every member of the Browns FO this season and mock them for their "Character and Accountability" bull.

What a freaking disaster. Browns gonna Browns.

It’s a catch-22. His propensity to take things so personally is his driving force and his downfall.

You have chosen to support the move. Hopefully you'll never have to experience something like this happening to one of your own daughters then support the guy who did it. That would be terrible.

And then no one shows up to court him.

At least it won't be Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. Something you would have to explain to your own family.

aight got my sandwich, im in a good mood. this gonna be my last time addressing this, because since we aren't getting Watson, i'm moving on.

you might be ok with that, but in the few times we interacted, i never felt the need to say that to you. i know how a message board works. i get into it with people all the time on this board, its a very long track record. i dont have any issues with people disagreeing with me, because if you havent been paying attention, plenty of people disagree with me all the time on this board on any topic. so the fact that you even felt the need to say something as inaccurate as that is....well i dunno what it is. its not stupid though...

but if you're gonna call anybody's post stupid, thats fine. but then dont get upset when people show you that same energy. and that's exactly what i did, showed you the same energy you showed me. so, to clarify; i dont have a problem with disagreements. its a freaking message board. but if you want to turn it up a notch, i most CERTAINLY dont have a problem with that either. i've spent more time in DT prison than anybody else on this board, to the point Purp has a digital mattress set up for me in the cell. it just doesnt make any sense why you'd consider ANY post stupid over a topic that we ALL are speculating about. none of knows what the inner workings are, which means any of our post could be considered 'stupid'. from my perspective, it was strange that i got singled out for that by you, thats all.

now, if you want to move on and disagree with me in other topics since this thread is now dead, cool. but if you wanna keep that heat up, thats fine by me as well. treat me like Burger King, because you can have it your way. i'm here to serve.

That would be incredibly childish and just prove to the NFL that you are a sensitive little child that can't cope with the pressures that come as part of life in the NFL.

Far smarter to do and say everything right. Come back and play for $18M and do well. By all means refuse to play or sign an extension after the season is over - but doing that now would be foolish beyond belief.

“I’ve spent more time in DT prison than anybody else on this board, to the point Purp has a digital mattress set up for me in the cell.”

LOL!

did you explain to your family how its ok to kick the dog crap out of a woman in the hotel because she called you mean words? or how its ok for some dude to be on drugs and get caught naked by the cops? or run from the cops? or own a team and be under federal investigation?

see, you can't just stick with one individual dude. the rabbit hole doesn't end there. so i'll explain to my daughters why Watson is the best QB for the browns while you explain to your family why you support the NFL overall, despite the multiple scumbags that exist at every level of this league.

because if we're REALLY gonna gonna play the morality police, you shouldnt be watching any of the games whatsoever. and yet, here you are...

Yeah, letting Haslam crap all over you then sucking up and playing nice in return would be real manly of him. He should tell Haslam to shove it. There are plenty of teams he could be signed and play for. Contnuing to play for the man who stabbed him in the back would make him a biotch.

If I were Mayfield I'd say that I'm out!

Yeah, kissing Haslams ass would be so much smarter. Show everyone you have no balls. If Watson's predatory actions didn't scare teams away, a player not willing to be stabbed in the back is child's play.

lmao. In the first place, when someone pays for their actions and admits their guilt, everyone deserves a second chance. Especially a one time incident. Hunt did all of that. Deshawn? You seem to be comparing a drug incident to being a sexual predator in the second instance. Yet you yourself break drug laws. Hypocrite much? And are you seriously trying to compare a college kid running from the cops to being a sexual predator? Tell me you didn't just try to do that. And yet again, you compare a financial crime to women being violated physically.

God forbid something like this ever happen to one of your children. Maybe then you could explain to them how it's just like running from the cops or a financial crime as they cry to their dad.

Did I miss something? When was Deshaun Watson declared a sexual predator? Did the courts rule or are you making assumptions again?

Just because you don't pay attention it's not everyone elses fault.

Was he convicted? I thought there was not enough evidence.

Pay attention and stop acting stupid. I guess you believe O.J. is innocent too. I mean after all, he wasn't convicted of anything either.

Shocking that the team that Watson personally reached out to is also the team that will probably trade for him.

Ok, so beside being board know it all you now get to be judge and jury and decide guilt and innocence.

Its not really the same though, a grand jury found enough probable cause to indict OJ, that wasn't the case with Watson

No, I've actually looked into and have read much of what has been reported. Much of it has been posted on this very board. You on the other hand have chosen to ignore everything, stomp your feet and say "But he hasn't been convicted of anything!"

I'll ask you again if you have the nads to answer the question this time. O.J. wasn't convicted of murder either, do you think he was innocent?

Looking at the obvious doesn't mean you know it all. It means you have a firm grasp of the obvious. It means you're willing to learn. Some people try and claim that's a bad thing.

It's the same thing in terms of his claim. His claim was that Deshawn wasn't convicted. Neither was O.J.

Look at all the other mediocre-to-good QBs in the league and how they handle similar/same situations. One is not like the other.

Put a different way... being a fQB is HARD, and not everyone is cut out for the job. I'm still hopeful, but I also think I'm learning a lot about our FO, owners, and Baker.

Not for nothing, but OJ Simpson WAS found guilty... in the civil trial. That part of the Watson saga is TBD.

I believe personally that OJ is the murderer of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. But, he was found innocent in the court of law. I have to accept that. He should be treated as innocent of those crimes. Why, he had his day in court.

I believe personally that there was some unscrupulous things done that fixed the 2020 election. But, I feel the January 6th rioters were dead wrong. There were legal court cases that the past administration attempted and lost in the court. Thus there is a new President. Denying what the courts rule is a dangerous game.

We as a society either learn to live with our flaws or we break down as a society. What I personally believe holds no water. In this case if the courts will not charge this man because lack of evidence then I have to treat him as if he has done nothing worng. Respect the law.

DW turning down the Browns just proved to me that he is not interested in part of the package being to work on repairing his reputation. smh.

OK now that seems to be over, can we get back to figuring out who WILL be on the field for the Browns this season? I, for one, am thankful that Watson and his baggage will NOT be in a Browns uniform.

I think it confirmed what we already knew. Haslam is a scumbag. Analytics doesn’t value character over winning. And the coaches aren’t fans of Baker.

Thank goodness thats over and we get to keep our starters and 3 1's ...

Or since his entire career has been in a dome he has no interest in coming to the North or the AFC which right now appears to have a harder road to the Super Bowl...

So all of these other QB's had their FO and coaching staff make the statement they were the named starter moving forward only to go out and try to replace them a short time later? I have learned that our FO are a bunch of slime balls and that Baker has the balls to stand up for himself. I don't think standing up for yourself is a bad thing. Baker can start for other teams. When healthy in 2020 he proved he could lead a team to the playoffs. In 2021 he was playing injured. To pretend that those factors make him a "mediocre-to-good QB" just doesn't make sense. I'm sure there will be front offices around the league that do not share your view. He has choices where he could be a starter elsewhere. And from the looks of things the Browns don't place much value on him anyway.

The only people who lose from all of this FO jackassery are the fans.

Watson could feel the hate/anger seething from browns fans. We went from favorites late last night to out this morning. Good.

We were never the favorites.

There is a difference in accepting he didn't go to prison, and supporting someone the facts indicate are guilty. it seems even you don't accept the fact that O.J. is innocent. But here you sit acting like the rest of us should consider Deshawn innocent this time. Refusing to support a person who the facts strongly indicate was involved in several sexual crimes doesn't break down society. I'm not calling for an attack on Berea.

All of those QBs were the starter until their FOs looked (and most have succeeded) in replacing them. JG played (poorly) the majority of the year as a lame duck. Tua was yanked back and forth as the Watson saga dragged on.

I'll repeat. Being a fQB is HARD in many ways. I don't see how you can objectively look at this offseason as anything but argument against Baker, as far as the mental side of it.

If Watson ends up on Atlanta then the Texans should throw a party. They will likely still be terrible in 2022 (especially if Watson is suspended) and they would get the 8th pick instead of the 18th pick in this year's draft.

So you think that Baker should sit quietly by as this FO claimed only a short time ago he would be the starter moving forward and then right afterwords publicly have shown they really don't support him at all?

You do realize that's nothing more than total and pure disrespect, right? This FO wasn't forced to make the statement that Baker was the starter moving forward. That's a choice they made. Going after a degenerate is another choice they made. Point being this entire debacle was totally constructed and executed by the powers that be, not Baker. But you know how it works around here. People make excuses for the scumbaggery and attack the person who stands up for themselves.

Browns PR team getting the spin out that it will be Baker's decision not to return rather then them moving on. This impending divorce is going to be a messy one.

There won't be a divorce until the end of this season. After Baker balls tf out for 22, he'll hit FA in 23 and leave. Browns will browns.

So let me see if I got this straight according to you and others. According to you and others we should never believe what the FO says in a PR statement. I mean saying Baker was our QB going into the future was something we shouldn't have believed.

But now suddenly they come out with some "cover their ass " statement and we should believe them and take them at face value?

Funny how that works.

I don’t think we should believe either.

In the far-fetched scenario where Baker stays on the team and plays well then he gets franchised tagged.

It AMAZES me these millionaires can have their feels hurt so quickly, I feel so sorry for them. NO ONE is irreplaceable- except Tom Brady, smile, all pro sports have INTENSE competitions at every position. The Browns told all players they are always looking for improvements. Baker thinks he had great seasons, get real, he's had one nice season, yet as a NUMBER ONE pick- who's been better Baker or Miles....it ain't even close. Baker has sucked, thank God we didn't pay him and his very weak feelings.....GO Browns!!!

2 things....

1) Watson probably looked at the AFCN (Burrow, Trubiski, Jackson) and saw even as the best QB in the division, it's a tough division for QBs. NFCS, has Tom Brady for what 1 maybe 2 more years?, Matt Ryan, couple more years at best, Saints have Tasom Hill, Panthers have Sam Darnold. Add in weather and lifestyle and NFCS just looks a whole lot better.

2) If I am Mayfield, I play this year, play my butt off, and hope I play into a contract, then make them pay big or leave. Either way, his value is lowest right now, it is to his best interest to play to increase his value. If they trade me, I play with a chip to prove they were wrong.

In the end, NFL is a business and football is a team game, you can only control yourself and how you do things, the rest has too many variables to have a concrete plan.

Even Belichick tried to replace Tom Brady!

Pit...I tried to find "SCUMBAGGERY" in the dictionary and all I could find is this...

scumbaggerynoun

The behaviour of a scumbag.


I do believe that the Urban Dictionary NAILED IT...!

I think you hit the nail on the head with Baker... his best move is to rehab and play lights out... force the Browns to pay him big or franchise tag him... he has a shot to get paid big money if he can have a good year... on the other hand, if he has a bad year he'll still get paid millions but no where near his earning potential...

My only caveat is I'm not entirely sure where the scumbaggey begins and ends. What I do know is that Haslam had to sign off on and approve of such a bold move such as this or none of it ever would have happened. As to those who advised him and advocated for this move to be made I have no idea. On the surface it certainly doesn't appear like a move that some in the organization would have been in favor of. I have no way of knowing how the details of it all went down.

Insightful video on OJ...

We never were in. It was made clear before we met with him

j/c:

I wanted DW to be our new QB, at first. Then after a day or two of thinking about it I said to myself, "No, you don't." Most of us assume he is probably guilty of what he was accused of and from a pure player's standpoint as sweet it it would have been to have him as our new QB his background outside of football is murky at best. Personally, I think it would have cast a pall that we accepted someone (or should I say someone else) like this to head our team. IHMO

PIT...I understand that there is no way of knowing for sure, concerning who's idea this was. But the end result, what if Watson doesn't want to play for Cleveland, does not even look to be a consideration by those responsible.

On the surface, it appears that some at the top of this franchise were so sure that Watson was going to choose Cleveland and their comment "we want an adult QB" might have been based on that assumption. What does the franchise do to overcome this degree of immaturity..?

You are positive the adult comment wasn't invented....media and info these days are never wrong....and Trump won and will be President shortly. Also, I'm sure the organization HAD to have talked about being turned down. Baker is in the driver's seat, he's fully guaranteed. Don't know if that applies if he pulls a Watson and doesn't play yet gets paid....HOW???.....if he was a competitor and an adult, he'd play and play well and then have all the power. We will see how this all pays out.
Baker, boo-hoo, you can bring players in to compete except at my position. Cry for these millionaires. Go Browns!!!!

Baker talked about the bridge being burnt, well, he finished it off by asking to be traded ...

I think he has a right to be upset, but he has to realize he has no leverage at this point in time.

Yeah, that was the final straw lol

This is how I feel... he has every right to be upset... But I would have hoped he would have worked it out with the FO privately... even if he does want a trade... but instead he cries to the media... he has zero leverage... he's coming off a bad year and surgery.... honestly think the best thing he could have done was either privately ask for a trade or play all out and earn either a franchise tag or huge pay day

This.

I would have hoped too. However when your team calls you a child in public media your options get very limited.

Your QB plays injured for you. You go to find an upgrade and fail, thats not bad.

Your QB plays injured for you. You go to find an upgrade, publicly call him a child. Then get denied by the upgrade and go back to your QB like nothing happened. Haslam should be in the media looking to get to the bottom of things.

And all this is ignoring the taint that comes with sacrificing any morals or ethics or claiming that character and accountability are supposed to mean something playing for the Browns.

Who said that? Is there an actual quote of someone making that comment?

nothing attributable to anyone specific, but it was a reported quote from a reputable reporter as it having come from "someone with the Browns organization"

I feel like my bond to this team gets more threadbare by the year. These days it’s by the day. Going after Watson of all people, wagering the present for that kind of future with that guy and when it was clear we were a long shot anyway… just kinda dumb. What I liked about these guys is that they’re supposed to be the smart guys. How did they not game plan for this? It really was always the most likely outcome: no Watson, pissed mayfield. Maybe things settle down and Mayfield walks it back we go into the season with plan A but the water is very muddy now. The sense that we’re all pulling in the same direction even if we’re not totally sold on Baker is gone now. I really thought we were getting beyond the “old Browns” tropes but here we are.

I heard the phrase "adult QB" from Zac Jackson on the local morning sports talk show, and later from Chris Mortenson on a tweet. It came across as a Browns PR strategy to counter public opinion of them going after Watson, which is laughable considering what Watson was facing because of his behavior. Point being, when you you hear two media types using the same talking points from the same source, it means it's what they wanted to put out there.

The Browns are denying that anyone – at least at the top of the organization – told ESPN’s Chris Mortensen the team wanted " an adult” at QB. That could be true. But I have known Mortensen since he was a baseball writer in the early 1980s in Atlanta and I covered the Tribe for The Plain Dealer.

Mortensen is a man of integrity who doesn’t make stuff up. It came from someone with the Browns.

Terry Pluto Article

Watch the play with the wording.

They said that no one "at least at the top of the organization – told ESPN’s Chris Mortensen the team wanted " an adult” at QB"

What they didn't say is that no one at the top of the organization said that
What they didn't say was that no one in the organization said that to Mort
What they didn't say is that this is not how they feel.

Words have meanings and context is everything.

This x2.

This is a business, and a tough one. Need to have thick skin to make it.

I think that Duke Johnson's Tweet was right ..... this is a trainwreck ..... with no evidence of getting better.

Thank you DeShaun Watson for not picking the Browns and forcing me to do some major gymnastics. Also thank you to DeShaun Watson for eliminating the Browns quickly so we don’t have endure this decision making process.

He'll announce Monday afternoon... just in time to dominate the primetime headlines...

What a stark contrast in the way Matt Ryan is handling all of this...

There was also something out there saying how the falcons discussed all of this with him beforehand too. That might have something to do with it.

Could be a potential landing spot for Baker.

Browns said no, we'll see if they stick to their guns. I hope Baker goes to a good team with nice jerseys, all I will say.

Does Baker know he's not very good?

Not sure, but I bet he knows he's better at QB and knows more about football than you and your entire gene pool. So he has that going for him.

Yet I've been saying for a long, long time that Baker is mentally weak and pretty much got answers like yours. Now those who enjoyed insulting me are changing their tune.

You could see this coming a mile away. Bad QBs are like an infectious disease. Bad QBs who don't work on their craft, are mentally shallow, and don't perform under expectations can destroy a franchise.

We still disagree on rather Baker is bad or good. And no matter what you think, the truth is, he's the best we've had since Bernie.

Now thats the truth

I would take Vinny Testeverde, Tim Couch, and Derek Anderson before Baker every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

Well from our talks in PP, I can see why.

True, but that's quite the low bar. The Browns should absolutely be looking to improve the position. The fact that the Browns never even reached out to Baker's team to even engage in contract extension talks after the playoff win should have told everyone that they were not sold him. I do not think he was ever in their long term plans.

Who cares that it's a low bar? Do we all forget the 20 years on the QB carousel? You want to sift through 20 or 30 more? A bird in the hand… We all know Baker has the arm talent, the rest is on the other team members, coaching, and system. But yeah, Baker is garbage for a QB and garbage for wanting a trade after he got demeaned (called a non-adult) and jilted without so much as a peep of warning. I'm so damn mad at how this was all handled that if Baker goes before the season, I might just go with him after 50 + years of die hard following this dumpster fire. I hate Art Model's ghost at this point.

I know this won’t go over well but comparing Bernie like he was this elite qb is a fallacy. He was serviceable and played on a good complete team. But he was pretty average. I know compared to what we’ve had that would look amazing. But one thing I will give the FO credit for is seeing that Baker isn’t that elite qb that you build around and is trying desperately to get that position buttoned up. Just the way they did it seemed a bit callous

Not only was it callous, it blew up in their face, putting the Browns back by 2, 3, 4, 5 years.

Idiotic move.

I did just fine not watching the nfl when the Browns were gone. I jumped away from nascar when money became the driving force. I can do without watching the Browns. (as a result of eh, I don't remember. A dispute between whatever company and dish network, I didn't get to see them much this year anyway)


Screw Jimmy Haslam. I know millionaires are used to getting their way, regardless. I can only imagine billionaires.........


Jimmy, ya done screwed up. Again. Might be time to just sit back and enjoy your money. Cause you aren't getting anymore of mine.

j/c....

This seems exhausting.

No massage therapists?

I have two daughters ... I can't support a team that would sign a QB with over 20 women accusing him of sexual rape or misconduct. I saw Baker playing hurt when he shouldn't have been and not it sounds like they want to run him out of town. It makes me wonder if they ended up permanently damaging him because they wouldn't bench him to save him from himself. I don't see any QB's in the draft that would immediately make us better than playing Baker.

It's possible there are things going on with Baker that is not known to us to make them want to get rid of him but I think it's crazy to throw him away when we have no real plan to replace him with anything better other than a serial rapist who probably doesn't want to play here anyways.

There is a plan. This is Andrew Berry’s team not Mike Holmgren or Ray Farmer. We just found today that Watson wasn’t coming. These things take time.

j/c

I will miss the DW threads.

I fully expect there is a plan. However, we may not be able to step right into it. It may require one or two interim stages before we get to where we want to be....

Yep, I'm sure the calculus was in their favor, and it's all well thought out.

I like how we go from having geniuses in the front office to the three stooges because they don’t like Baker (which was pretty obvious). These are the same guys most of us loved like six months ago.

6 months ago we weren't the laughing stock of the league. Now, thanks to them, we have once again acquired the laughing stock crown.

Who is laughing? Most people I see think the team is smart to move in from Baker?

Never? What about taking Greg Newsome? Signing Nick Chubb to a reasonable extension? Stealing JOK? Fixing the offensive line?

Let’s not be a prisoner of the moment because we are emotional over a player that we liked getting the raw end of a deal.

John Dorsey trying to preserve his reputation. Yawner.

Can we have John Dorsey back? He is the only one who knows how to build a team.

🤣

The twice fired GM that is now an advisor for the lowly Detroit Lions? Yikes!

That hired Freddie Kitchens because of a penis swinging contest.

I never called the FO stooges. The pic is fitting.

Enjoy your victory lap... and to be clear, I mean that both as a dig and also as acknowledgement that you were right.

You just don't get it. Its not about his football I've said before that he is darn good. But he's a DIRT BAG he is not a guy to root for - I and many people would find it hard to root for him being the DIRT BAG that he is! you're talking about stats dvision titles I'm talkiing about rooting for a dirtbag maybe outside of Hernandez the murderer the biggest offender.

"It's a Marketing world"

-our owner

Seeing the message board this wildly triggered and calling the FO a mess after one day only furthers my confidence that they know what they are going.

Yep they are "GOING" somewhere...lol

Out of interest - what do you think the plan is at this point. Who do you think will be the QB on opening day of the season?

Well clearly in the NFL, it’s about football. Teams around the league clearly don’t give a damn about what we say on message boards or radio stations. Project your morality all you want, teams are gonna bring in whoever gives them the best chance to win, regardless of what we think.

And let’s be clear here: the stadium was gonna be sold out if Watson was here. You know it, I know it, we all know it. The people claiming they won’t support the browns were the same ones saying they wouldn’t watch the nfl because of the kneeling.

Oh look, they’re all still here.

They are going to give Case Keenum a 5-year extension.

My head hurts. Ouch.

Like our owner did? Publicly saying he would be our starter moving forward and then publicly going after Watson? It sounds like you expect more from Baker than our ownership.


Is that what you call standing up for yourself using the exact same method the FO did?


Even if that's how you feel do you think the FO acted any better in all of this? Because anyone trying to point the finger in one direction here hasn't been paying attention.

I must've missed the tear-jerker goodbye letter posted to SM from the FO.

What I did hear them say was that they approach every offseason as if they were an expansion team. There are no sacred cows. Where was all this "they did him dirty" all this time they haven't given him his second contract?

You do realize that both things can be true, right? You can have people who are great at stats and breakdowns but are terrible in handling other situations.

It's like watching the news when a murder takes place and they talk to the neighbor... "He was a quiet guy who went to church and was nice to all of the kids in the neighborhood. I would never have believed he was a murderer."

Sure he was a great guy otherwise, but he is still a murderer. The two things are not connected.

Moving on from Baker is no excuse for making yourself look like fools in the process.

And if good marketing is what they were trying to accomplish this was a huge fail.

I'm sure they are very upset that PitDawg think they look like fools.

I can't believe that even you are trying to defend this BS. They publicly state Baker was their QB going into next year too. So you have decide which PR statement you have chosen to believe now? They also said character was a huge issue and then went after Watson. It appears you have decided to pick and choose which things they say that you want to believe and ignore the things you don't. I mean maybe we need a "grown up" owner.

And I'm sure they're impressed they have corporate shills on here trying to excuse they ignorant behavior too.

I hope Watson never plays another down after what this crap has done to my team.

Corporate shills? What are you even talking about?

Making excuses to make corporate billionaires look good for conducting themselves like fools. All you have to do is read the board.

Again, what are you even talking about?

If you lack the ability to read the comments that's on you... But Ill clue you in just a bit.

First there's some crazy narrative that "every team will do what it takes to upgrade every position". There are numerous teams that are in a very questionable spot in terms of their QB. Yet only a hand full attempted to get Watson. Pittsburgh being one such team in our own division. Some teams recognize that Watson is so entitled he will think he has the power to call the shots on who that team should hire on their coaching staff like he's in the FO. Some teams recognize that there's so much hanging over his head that the baggage will be a burden on the team to the point he isn't worth it. Then some teams don't. But only a hand full. Which the dumb asses who are running this clown show fall into.

Second, they claim Baker is immature for writing that letter and/or demanding a trade even after they attempted to replace him. Yet Watson threw a compete tantrum because he wasn't allowed to help hand pick his own coaching staff and demanded a trade. So they somehow think that's an excuse to point the finger at Baker while ignoring the fact that this FO wanted to bring in someone who felt far more entitled than Baker.

So yeah, they want to focus on Baker rather than make this FO accountable.

And the corporate shill part?

This is a woefully inadequate summary of the situation and very clearly slanted to one point of view.

Yeah, facts look like that sometimes when your agenda doesn't allow for facts. Can you explain what part of that post isn't factual?

We'll start with this....

Deshaun Watson officially requests trade from Texans hours after team names head coach

It appears the Deshaun Watson era is over with the Houston Texans. The relationship has taken center stage this offseason and is fueled by Watson's angst toward owner Cal McNair and Jack Easterby, the tumult reaching fever pitch with the team reneged on promises to include him in helping to identify the team's next head coach -- with further gasoline having been poured on the fire by the hiring of Nick Caserio as general manager. What had not occurred yet, however, was a formal request (read: demand) by Watson to be traded, but the Texans have now reportedly received just that.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...exans-hours-after-team-names-head-coach/

How many teams have QB's that Watson would upgrade the position and then how many of those teams pursued Watson?

There may be details of my post you can try to debate but for the most part it's dead nuts factual.

What lead up to Watson wanting a say in the coaching search? I’m sure everything was going perfectly and the Texans weren’t a tire fire.

Once again, he announced his trade demand just hours after the new HC was named. You can dance around that if you like but claiming that's a coincidence doesn't make any sense.

So you think the only problem Watson had with the Texans was that they didn’t hear his voice with regards to the head coaching search?

so... watson threw a temper tantrum because he didn't get to pick his coach.

Watson to the Browns….