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Throughout the history of the NFL it has been proven there is no one size fits all recipe for drafting or evaluating a successful QB. I don't see this as being any different.

IMO Shedeur has a lot more learning to do but he is capable and smart enough to learn what he has to. I agree with Bone on the traits he has it’s just a matter of learning by gaining experience. He needs to put the reps in. I’m pulling for him!

If we don’t take a QB high I would consider taking a flyer on Drew Allar later in the draft. He looks like a younger version of Josh Allen. We can have him as our #3 and give him some time to develop.

I think if Berry and Stefanski is retained that is a very possible outcome. They were high on Allar last year. If Berry and Stefanski re retained I think the QB room will look something like Sanders, Watson, and maybe a Drew Allar. If Stefanski and Berry are fired I think the entire QB room will be changed. I think a new regime will take the salary cap hit and release Watson like Denver did with Russel Wilson. They will trade Sanders and cut Gabriel. Sanders and Watson will only be with the Browns if Stefanski and Berry are here. Otherwise, a new regime means new QB room.

This is what my comment pertained to. I was simply answering why I as an individual did not consider this a topic for discussion. There is certainly information contained in the video. The question then becomes do you think that information is some guide to a foolproof plan in drafting a QB. As for myself I don't think it is so that is my answer as to why I wasn't going into enter to the debate about it. That's all.

I don't blame those who wish to do otherwise.

Well, there’s always the possibility that we’ll take 2QB’s again like this past draft 😂 And then keep DW. The Browns do make unprecedented moves LOL 😂

I agree. At this time if I were making the decision I would go with Shedeur for next year trade down in the draft for a #1 in “27 and draft for the O-line, get a WR or2 and then go BPA.

I would definately roll with Shedeur at this point.

He has some of those higher prioorities. There are still alot of unknowns. Partly because of the team: OL and WR talent.... partly because of how little we have seen him.

As well as thinking of Sanders while watching (geat vid by the way - thank you).... I also was struck by how Baker hit on some of those high priorities too. When they talked about Passion. Toughness, Leadership (being authentic - leading by example) made me think of BM. IQ (#4 on the list) - that is questionable for Baker. I'm not certain how fast he processes - but then as Warner said: Make it simple. What is the ILB doing - read and react. What is the safety doing - read and react.... BM did okay with "half the field". I hope Sanders processes faster and ends up showing more smarts.

At the end of the day I don't watch enough college game to know what the QB class offers. I do know that SS has shown enough to let me want to address the other more glaring needs and give the guy a chance.

Again - thanks for the vid.

I think there are many Browns' fans (and not just on this site if you listen to sports talk radio here in town) who feel the same way. That term feels a bit too tentative for me, and if I am the FO, I don't move forward with him if I am wavering or unsure about him or "leaning" in one direction. If I am the FO, the question becomes, do I think sticking with Shedeur is the right thing for the team even if I can get one of Mendoza or Moore (or insert some other QB they like). If so, I think that is a very risky play even if you think building around a QB is important.

A team lives and dies by the QB. End of story. It's not a lack of culture as has been talked about lately. It's not about going/not going for it on 4th down. It's not about having one of the best defenses, as evidence this year. It's the QB and only the QB.

To me, "trending" shouldn't cut it if the FO feels the same. Get the guy you believe can be the franchise, and if you are unsure about what you have, you've already addressed the direction you need to go in.

Now, perhaps the FO is confident in Sanders's future. If that is the case, that is a very different story, but I don't think they do.

I think before the FO will move forward on Sanders if they like Mendoza or Moore they will inquire about what a trade would look like for either player. If then cost is higher than they are willing to pay, then Sanders it is. Just like last year. According to reports they inquired about moving up to take Ward and the Titans said No they are not interested in trading. The draft is about what I have vs what I can get when I am picking. If/when they offer a trade to the top pick or 2nd pick and they are told no deal then is Sanders a better option than the 3rd QB? They actually may have this option twice actually with both 1st round selections.

I would assume this to be the case as well. And the Giants currently sitting at the #2 spot could be where a team moves up since they seemingly have their QB (for the moment) in Dart. NYJ are most likely taking one at #3, so it is leap-frogging them or out-bidding them if only for the Jets to move up one spot. You'd think Titans at #4 might be the next spot to trade up, but you never know.....knew coach and maybe a new GM could change that.

I suppose the same situation for the Titans could be for the Giants, but I think they stick with Dart.

I’m sure Vegas will take Mendoza and the Giants would probably take him too. If Moore goes back to school like it’s been reported then there really isn’t any other QB worth a top 5 pick IMO. Things could change but right now that’s the way it looks.

More crucially, both the Giants and Titans put significant draft ammo towards the QB position, and neither pick has played their way out of the job.

I believe either loss still has us picking 5th, and a win will just put us a couple spots lower. Either way, I hope we don't end up trying to move up from our first pick.

Agree. I see Shedeur's ceiling as low-end starter. His CPOE and EPA are quite bad. Gabriel rated higher.

If the Browns roll with him next season it is just punting on yet another season. Let's hope the Browns set a higher bar for a change.

Local sports talk in town has been banging the Shedeur drum. He's makes for easy content. Controversial, too!

I tend to think it's more likely Shedeur isn't even on the team next year unless Haslam meddles and enjoys the fan/media attention he brings to the team.

If Berry and Stefanski stay Sanders will be the 2026 Browns starter. If they are fired and there is regime change the entire QB room will be different in 2026.

The Browns org cannot move off of DW until designating him a June 1 2027 cut after the 2026 league year ends. The new guys - if that happens - can choose to not-want DW all they want...he is here and on the 53 for all of the 2026 season.

Actually, they can choose to take the 1-year salary cap hit like Denver did with Russel Wilson. With Watson and JOK's insurance money cap relief for this season it will offset some of that extra cap hit. They can stay a very young team in 2026 with as many as 30 1st and 2nd year players on the 53 and then start 2027 with a lot of cap space to work with. If I am interviewing for new GM and coach that is what I would sell Haslam.

Now Berry and Stefanski will use the insurance money as cap relief keep Watson on the roster in 2026 and try to build off of 2025 and field a more competitive team in 2026 by selling Haslam on if they use the space, they have to fill a couple of the Oline holes and try to improve the Offense to be at least average or a middle of the league offense. With the caliber defense already assembled the team can be competitive in 2026 and keeping Watson on the team in 2026 is best for the team salary cap wise. I would assume that is what Berry and Stefanski are selling to Haslam.

Now what will Haslam do after Sunday's game?

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the insurance relief that kicks in for the upcoming season doesn't help us in getting rid of Watson before the end of next season. The dead money escalation that will happen is still too much (hence why we need to hold him for the 2026 season). That insurance relief will, however, allow us to function somewhat in FA.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Couldn't agree much more than I do - with both of you.

Shedeur is not and will not be the Fairy Tale QB we want him to be. Too rough around the edges in nearly all aspects, too many terrible tendencies. His processor is too slow. He's a Pentium 4 in a world of i9s.

If his shelf life is longer than four years it will be on three+ different teams. If he ever has actual pro bowl type success, it will run a timeline like Geno Smith. If the Browns are smart, they'll unload him while some team will still float a 3rd or 4th rounder; otherwise, his presence will be disruptive.

The ONLY scenario where he starts is if we are "punting" on 2026 because we don't see our future fQB in the draft. Along those lines, if we do, we pay the price to go get him. You don't calculate the cost of a fQB on a slide rule. This team just sacrificed three 1st rounders, a large part of the fanbase, a stab at years of mockery and a quarter billion on the biggest bust in league history. Can't stand pat because the next one will cost us an extra 1st round pick that we already own.

That said, this class is thin and over-payment is a given, sad but true. That's not even football talk, that's simple supply and demand. I would go all-in on Moore, but that's about it. I like 2027 a lot better.

If our FO is on my page, they will also trade Myles Garrett for two 1st round picks. Drafting a rookie in 2027 means that Garrett would likely be no more than a "piece" of a defensive puzzle by the time we sniff a February game.


That was a great video. As fans, seeing a chart that seems to be inside-out, it's easy to understand that's because we're not as privy to the top of the chart as the "insiders" are. I, as many of you did, saw firsthand (loved to see it in the video), that Stafford was a fQB when he beat the Browns his rookie year with his arm falling out of it's socket. Good $h*t.

It's easy to read down that list and see why we drafted Mayfield, although I beat the drum for months for Allen. I said and say again... when you have a physical freak that can throw all NFL passes, to all parts of the field, run like Gronk in the open field before running over a LB, with a grin on his face, you take the chances on completion percentage.

You just watched 40 minutes of the best in the biz talking about why all the intangibles matter, and why all the physics are nearly as important, and still spit the truth in the end - it's a 50/50 proposition at best. And that's why I live where I live in the world of QB evaluations - you draft the things you cannot teach, and you draft for as many tools in the toolbox as possible. And you hope. You hope for the first time in your god-forsaken football life the coin comes up heads. Jesus, lord have mercy, please release us from this purgatory.

Wish I had more time to go all-in on this discussion, I don't atm. Good threads, Bone. You're working your butt off to keep discussion going in a world of Browns apathy.

You're not wrong it does not help the team get rid of him. It will give the team 43 million in cap relief. If they hold on to Watson, his cap hit is less in 2026 than if they out right cut him. If I new coach came in like Sean Peyton did in Denver, they cut him and take the entire hit in 2026. They could cut him post June1st and spread the cap hit out over 2026 and 2027. I would assume a new coach will take the cap hit in year 1 and move forward with more cap space available in 2027. They can only do that by following what just happened this year and play 1st year players and a hand full undrafted free agents. Next year's team would be younger than this year's team but 95% of Watson's cap hit would then be off the books.

I agree Bone and right now that's the situation we're in. We have more than a few very important questions that need answers, but it will take time to get them. When we drafted Manziel I knew it was a mistake. I heard rumors at the time we were interested in him, and I was hoping they were false.

Everyone has opinions, Sanders being our long term QB is baloney. He throws a catchable ball and isn't afraid of the moments.....BUT he is way to inconsistent and doesn't honor the ball- his fumble today is perfect example- gets ball punched out while moving with one hand on ball as if he's Jim Brown. Zero TDs by offense- our D won some games. Sanders in NOT the answer.

Every QB has potential- Johnny Manziel had it- FACTS- "He finished his rookie season with a 19.0 Total QBR, the fifth-lowest mark among 696 quarterbacks with at least 200 pass attempts in a season in the QBR era (since 2006)." He was a LATE Rnd QB for a reason- he should NOT be in Browns QB of future discussions. Watson could/should be a transition QB, make him earn some of his huge salary.

I don’t know if SS is our long term answer but I think he deserves more time. We’re not in a position to Draft a Quarterback where we are picking. Maybe we can take a flyer on one later on or just draft for our OL and WR positions and then just draft BPA after that. DW is still on the roster and if we keep him and SS doesn’t play well we can use him and then draft a Quarterback in 2027 when it looks like a better group. Trading down is also a possibility to acquire another #1 for 2027. Many options on the table.

I thought him and the offense looked absolutely atrocious in Cinci.

Otherwise, for whatever reason, the offense was actually able to start moving the ball once Shedeur was starting. I think a bit of that has to do with the quality of defenses we were going against, but the offense just looked like it was doing more vs the non-stop 3 and outs we were getting at the beginning of the season.


I think minimally competent QB'ing would be a big step up from what we've seen and gets us that much closer to simply being mediocre. Shedeur doesn't have to be elite to give back a good return on investment.

SS is a kid. I suspect he'll always be a kid. He's not a serious person. The best QBs, when it comes down to it, a viciously competitive and deadly serious when the game is on the line. When they lose, they take it personally. Going back to college, watching him and his interviews before the draft, I feel I understand perfectly well why he was passed over so thoroughly. He's just not a serious person. He has the size and arm. He's a bright kid, seems friendly. He's never going to be more than a C average QB, if that. And he'll be fine with that.

Video isn't working or I would watch it for sure.

To me the most important trait in a QB is how fast he processes information because it's very hard to improve speed and reaction time for a 3 second window to throw the ball. Not impossible mind you but very hard. Should be able to read defenses presnap and then make a post snap read to avoid throwing the ball into bad places.

Needs decent height to see the field of at least 6'2 preferably taller than 6'5(in a perfect world)

Should be able to throw a 30 yard pass on a rope and drop a 50 yard pass into a bucket. He should also be able to be able to ease up on short passes to help them be more catchable.

Should be able to have good footwork where he keeps his lead foot pointed where he is throwing and his back foot is planted firmly so he can torque that ball out there.

And it's almost all about what's between the ears and in the chest. Sure, some physical attributes but they all seem to agree... it's the beans

Brady, Homes, OMAHA- they had "want to"- SS is Ok with a C, we have four UGLY sisters at QB- we must address OL, WR- maybe deep dive QB- Brady was a 6th and Purdy a 7th....why can't we hit on one like that......Go Browns

Well to be fair - it is all of it. Heart, Brain, Arm. If you want a Peyton, Brady, Luck, Rodgers ... It was interesting to hear the order of importance. I have always said a cerebral QB who processes fast is my most important factor - the seemingly unanimous trait on the video was heart and 'want it' came in as #1.

Because according to their timeline they are once in a generation type finds. They were drafted 20 years apart.

this one?

Just wanted to say thanks for posting that video, informative.

If done properly as you are indicating, it's a very effective weapon in keeping the defense off balance. I've always been a huge advocate of play action.

If one considers it an actual possibility Harbaugh would come here I suppose. But both Flacco and Lamar were first round QB's. I highly doubt once Harbuagh watches the film on Sanders he will see that as some golden opportunity. People usually only gamble on long shots when they're desperate or have no choice. Harbaugh isn't desperate and will have choices.

If Harbaugh wants to come here I say you make him the king with complete authority over everything. No questions asked. He grew up rooting for the Browns now it's time for him to bring glory back to the Browns. Let him hire his own GM. He is bonafide. You do whatever it takes. He has the pedigree to change the culture instantly.

A lot of stink comes with this organization but…these guys have egos. Guys, like and especially Harbaugh, knows what the man who takes this franchise to the promised land legacy becomes. May not mean a ton to some but to a guy like Harbaugh it may just be the enticing challenge to go out on. Add a giant paycheck for your efforts of course…

Then again, he may want to sail out with ease. The giant check is there regardless.

Haslam HAS to make the attempt though.

Harbaugh draws a parallel with Watson and Lamar and says we use him for a season while we developing someone?

Wouldn't that same thing hold true for any team on the bottom wrung of the ladder who just fired their HC? I understand that Browns fans feel they are in some special circumstance here and for some strange reason they think that makes this different than other teams who have been failing. But I'm sure if you ask fans in any of those cities they feel the exact same way.

Oh I’m sure you’re right but…when I ponder all of that I have a hard time thinking of a franchise that has been maligned and laughed at being the butt of a lot of jokes by other fans and ESPECIALLY media like CLE.

I don’t really think he will give Cleveland much thought but as someone said above, we don’t know what’s motivating a man. Haslam still must take a shot. I believe it’s a must to put that out to the fans…”I tried”.

And he is injured in game 5, and out for the season ......

You can take Dante Moore off your lists. I'm not upset. Watched a couple games over the last few weeks and he looked like a project.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...te-moore-opts-nfl-draft-returning-oregon

Aaaand another one to take off the list. Mateer heading back to school. I know some folks really liked this guy. I know little. It’s just not cracking up to be our year to grab a QB. I hope we drop back and pick up another 1st for next year in case (assuming) who we have doesn’t pan out:

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...a-qb-mateer-lb-lewis-return-final-season

Not sure what our FA budget is going to end up being this year... my understanding is that the have to dumpster dive for another off-season before our cap goes back to normal. I think we're in for another TC of long-shot FA QBs being given an outside shot of latching on.

What are folks' opinion of Tua? I don't watch any Dolphins games... he was good and then he wasn't. I believe their Oline regressed substantially(?).

Of Tua as a band aid or a permanent solution?

As a band aid I think he is good enough with a better OL and an actual #1 WR to increase the win total but not good enough to be any type of long term solution. But then again any QB ends up with better results when he has a better running game and pass protection by a good OL and better WR's. I'm not sure however if you find that very helpful.

I think the real question is what will the actual results of a better record be? I mean I'm sure everyone would feel better if we won 7-9 games instead of 3-5 games. That's a given.

But if we're looking to draft a future franchise QB in the following draft it puts you that much further away and far more costly to do so.

So it may be a case of the old saying "biting off your nose to spite your own face" in the end by actually improving the QB position next season.

Well, we could benefit from either a better band-aid and/or a permanent solution.

We've been trying to time the draft and tank for the higher picks for what feels like forever (or maybe we're not trying and it just came naturally). I'm kinda over thinking like that. Just build the team and the QB situation becomes incrementally easier to sort out (better supporting cast puts less pressure on the QB position).

I think we should all remind ourselves that Tua is one concussion away from being permanently cross-eyed.

I agree Barry should have been fired.

But I don't agree that if dart or Shough become great! We can judge this draft last as a failure. You don't get to judge Berry with hindsight. And it's like saying every GM in the NFL failed six times for not drafting the best quarterback in the history of the NFL. It just doesn't work like that in my eyes.

What are you saying that they should have drafted either of those two quarterbacks??

I don't think it's fair to wait and see if they're good before you make that claim. You can do that with any draught and any position, yes, quarterback is the most important, but the same criteria could be set for any position. And I think we've normally agreed that it's unrealistic to go back and claim which players we should have picked based on knowing how good they are after the fact. Just how I see it.

I get what you're saying. I really do. But I always consider that getting a QB was at the very top of the priority list. It has been for quite some time now. I understand that they get paid millions of dollars to do their jobs. I get they have an entire scouting staff and analytic department that are also being paid millions of dollars. Resources that only 32 GM's have access and privy to.

We have watched teams find existing QB's that failed in the past who they signed and have had success with. We have watched as they have left QB's on the draft board.

So while your points have some merit, at what point should they be held accountable for doing the very thing they are getting paid to do? If the HC was held accountable for winning games which is his job, why is the person whose job it is to build a quality roster and missing out on FA QB's and QB's in the draft not being held accountable because he didn't do his job?

Wasn't it stated that KS wanted Gabriel or am I wrong?

Everything I have read/heard was that Gabriel was more of a Berry pick, but it's always been "there was a consensus."

Do you mean after every legitimate chance of a franchise QB had already been overlooked by Berry? Are you trying to say out of that entire draft class that Gabriele was at the top of Stefanski's list? I would certainly hope that's not your suggestion here.

I also understand that it is the job of the GM with his extensive scouting department and analytics team to draft players. Not the HC. I'm not going to engage in a game of pass that buck. Each man has their own job and responsibilities. Drafting players is not is not in Stefanski's job description. If it were there would be no need for Berry in the first place. All they would need is someone to negotiate the contracts and manage the salary cap of the players the HC selects.

That's not how any of this works.

I wouldn’t have fired either of them.. this year.

We knew weeks ago this wasn’t likely “the” QB draft year. When we dropped to 6 it was mostly over. It looks like a 1 QB draft and talent will only be leaving the pool, not entering. Meaning, guys opting to go back for NIL money, not unexpected talent opting to come out.

So what are the options? Slim pickings. So you fire your coach now? And when next year we still don’t have an answer at QB we fire Berry and we shopping for a GM but keeping the coach..? Just so dumb.

We simply have to ride out the DW curse and try to position ourselves to launch. Drop back this year, get another first next year. Ride with what you’ve got, see once and for all if sanders is real (he isn’t) but when next year comes and we’re in the exact same place, THEN you clean house, search for a GM/coach team with a freed up cap and two #1’s and no lingering toxic crap in your QB room.

But no. Because our owner is dumb.

I agree with your post. Who knows what's been going on behind the scenes. We can speculate and have our opinions. We seem to make our decisions and situations as difficult as nuclear physics. Other teams can turn things around in a couple of years case in point the Pats. We haven't been able to do it in 26!

Actually the Pats turned it around in one year. During the regular season they went 4-13 in 2023, 4-13 in 2024 and went 14-3 in 2025.

This being the only post that references QB in the title means I keep putting QB stuff in this one. How psyched is Vegas to have the #1 pick right now? Mendoza looks every bit the part. If I were them, there'd be almost no price high enough.

Just a thought. Is Carson Beck or Drew Allar QB’s we should consider in the 3-4 round if they are available or should we just go with what we have ?

Carson Beck is going to make some NFL team a good QB. Nobody knows what the Browns will do with the QB position until they first name a coach and decide what direction they will go. Do they trade for a Matt Jones or try to sign Maliek Willis? Will they be able to swing a trade to acquire a 1st for the 2027 draft and hedge all bets for a new QB then? Does the new coach want to see if Sanders can develop into a starting QB? Does Watson have anything left in the tank? The easiest prediction is season starts with Sanders and Watson is your veteran backup. He did work well with Sanders last year by all accounts. I think if that is the case they will draft a developmental guy mid rounds in this year's draft. I am not sure who really liked Allar, but reports were last year that the Browns liked Drew Allar. Was that Berry or Stefanski? If Berry, he may be targeted again in this draft. I think the only obvious thing is Gabriel more than likely will be gone or reduce to practice squad.

I wouldn't be surprised if, as part of these conversations with these young OCs, the Browns ask what is the viability of bringing Watson back to his old form. There have been reclamation projects in the NFL these past few years-- Sam Darnold, Daniel Jones, Mac Jones, Trevor Lawrence, hell even Baker Mayfield to a degree. I wouldn't be surprised if they probe on this if nothing more but to see how the candidates respond.

A very plausible scenario. We have no less than 5 options at the QB position. It will be interesting to see what avenue we take.

Beck - no thanks. There's a reason he has been in college for the last 6 years - he sucks, quite frankly.

Allar - thought he was the real but his last 2 years were meh.

Actually his stats and play looked pretty good last year. But this year he hasn't lived up to the hype.

Last year he threw for a 66.5% completion rate, 3327 yards with 24 td's and 8 int's.

He only played 6 games this season so it's a small sample size but he still threw for 64.8% with 8 td's and 3 int's .

I'm not advocating the Browns draft him. I'm just showing your portrayal is not accurate.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/drew-allar-1.html