Browns analysis: John Dorsey could make play for Buccaneers’ Gerald McCoy

By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com sports writer

April 29, 2019


Browns GM John Dorsey is believed to have a post-draft interest in former All-Pro DT Gerald McCoy, who led Tampa Bay with 21 QB hits in 2018, and Bucs are in need of a RB

Now that the Browns have coursed through the early trading, free agency and draft cycles, the sense of whether 2019 is the time to “go for it” has changed.

Twice in an interview after becoming the team’s top draft pick last week, cornerback Greedy Williams predicted the Browns are going to Super Bowl 54 (that’s the next one).

If you ask general manager John Dorsey about “going for it,” his response might be coy. Behind the scenes, Dorsey might not be finished trying to microwave a contender.

Pre-draft reports out of Tampa Bay said the Buccaneers would gladly trade veteran defensive tackle Gerald McCoy if the price was deemed right. The draft came and went with McCoy still on the roster.

Dorsey’s interest in McCoy is believed to be ongoing, and the Buccaneers likely still have an appetite for getting value from him for the program new pilot Bruce Arians is building.

McCoy, who turned 31 shortly after Super Bowl 53, was a big star at Baker Mayfield’s alma mater, Oklahoma, before becoming the No. 3 overall pick of the 2010 draft. McCoy made first team All-Pro in 2012, 2013 and 2014, and at one point went to six straight Pro Bowls, the last of them after the 2017 season.

In 2018, McCoy had six sacks and a team-high 21 quarterback hits, playing 70 percent of Tampa Bay’s defensive downs (732 overall).


https://www.cantonrep.com/sports/2019042...rs-gerald-mccoy

This has always been an obvious solution to the McCoy/Duke Johnson situation.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...ine#Post1610081

McCoy for Duke might make both teams and both players happy.

Not to mention Guard Dawg - he was calling for a 3T during the draft. Getting McCoy would give us a really good DT rotation.

McCoy is due to make $13 million in 2019. I think that would have to change for us to take him on.

It would, but I don't think that would be a real battle. McCoy probably recognizes his situation. I heard him interviewed a few years ago. Sounds like a bright and good guy.

Do we not have $13M after trading Duke and his salary? (This is not a facetious question - I'm not a cap guy.)

If we just waited it out it sounds like the Bucs will eventually cut him anyway.



https://www.bucsnation.com/2019/4/28/185...gency-nfl-draft

That deal would make total sense to me.

He maybe past his prime but in a rotation where you keep him fresh; he could be productive.

Interesting idea for sure.

All the Duke chatter comes back to touches. When Hunt returns he will be on the bench.

McCoy if there is some juice left would contribute more than Duke.

Thanks for the shout out Dave, and the acknowledgment Vers. McCoy would be great in rotation.

I asked Jason Licht about the Bucs' salary cap situation, since, as it stands, Gerald McCoy is still on their roster, they have under $2 million in cap space and need roughly $9 million to pay their draft picks. "There's always ways," he said. I then asked if he foresaw having to make lot of roster moves to free up money. "We don't have to," he said.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41062974-4

Sounds OK if he can be in a rotation. Not at his price, but sensible to cap, OK.

Dorsey is in charge.

Looks like an opportunity to maybe do another round of shopping.

j/c

I'm not sure why people are worried about his cap number this year. We have 33m in space, and without a first rounder, we won't have much of a cap hit by the draftees (est 4.7m per over the cap). After the Duke dead cap (4m), we'd have 11.3m left over. And, we could cut him after this season if we wanted without any impact on future caps.

If we wanted a cap friendly hit this season, we'll have dead money next season - it'd mean we need to include negotiations as part of the draft deal and whatever money up front would be split across the terms of the deal. So say we re -sign him for 3 years 30 million with 10m guaranteed (instead of the 38.4m he's due the next 3 years) and cut him after this season, we'd be on the hook for 6.67m in dead cap next year. I'd much rather have him for a season at 13m with no future ramifications than have him at a little bit of a discount this season and dead space next year (as of now, spotrac shows 12.5m in space next year). Just my opinion.

In theory, this move would be great. In practice, I'm not sure.

Who would we be moving to the bench? Ogunjobi or Richardson? Or do we think McCoy will be happy with coming off the bench?

Also, some injuries get better. Some only linger and get worse. McCoy has had a lot of those lingering type injuries. At some point, they are going to add up.

I'd love him at the right price, especially if he was okay being part of a rotation and limiting his snaps some. Try to keep him healthy for important moments. Maybe we can finally start getting some of those Super Bowl aspiration discounts on veterans.

j/c:

The amount of playing time for the defensive line should not be confused w/the offensive line.

D-lines rotate their players more than any other unit. Those big guys get tired fending off blockers and running down QBs and ball carriers.

There will be plenty of snaps for McCoy, should we decide to acquire him.

I could be wrong but I believe our dline utilization was crazy high. Having a guy like McCoy who can get to the qb playing 3T would be nice

It's not the available snaps that potentially concern me. It's that the more psychological aspect of being "the starter" matters to some guys could potentially come into play. McCoy didn't like coming off the field in Tampa when he was playing hurt. I'm not sure how he'd take being on the sidelines if healthy.

If he's fine with it, great. It's hard for some guys to not be "The Guy" sometimes if they've always been that, though. It's just a thought that felt worth considering.

He's had some sort of injury or other in all of the past 5 seasons. (Link)

But, He's still played nearly 3/4 of his teams defensive snaps as a DT in all of those years. (TB Snap Counts Link)

It doesn't necessarily mean anything, and he could be a great fit for us. It's just something that could possibly be a part of the decision if a trade doesn't come to pass.

Wouldn't hurt as much if the Browns had used one of their picks on Mike Weber, Rb OSU who went to the Cowboys late,... I was asking for.

Can't make Dorsey change his style, if this kind of thing occurs and repeats you'll end up with an older roster sooner.

It's a non story unless it happens.

Do we really need another scat back? One could argue we've got it pretty well covered between Chubb showing nice hands to go with his running, Hunt, and Hilliard in that mold as well. We also have Landry who kind of has a RB build.

Not trying to contradict you, just kind of thinking "out loud."

We might could use a bigger back more possibly, like the UDFA we signed from the U. Though Chubb has pretty good leg drive for short yardage, too.

(my sentence construction is awkward as heck anymore. Had an instructor who insisted everything be written in ~4ish word bullet points, and it's got me completely FUBAR'ed lol)

I think they need 4.

It seriously warms my heart to see the squealers cap space. They have some issues.

Make the trade.

Regardless of what their GM says it sounds like he’s a likely cut. Whereas Duke is not. McCoy getting cut means we give nothing to get him and we negotiate a new contract. The downside being we’re competing for his services. But he’s taking a pay cut regardless in any scenario other than a trade or them somehow eating his number this year. He being 31 means he’s got 1, maybe 2 years of decent productivity left. Definitely don’t want to take any contracts with guaranteed money in years 2 or 3. And he’s got to accept being a rotation guy, just no getting around that. I hope it isn’t a Duke for Mcoy trade, that doesn’t seem like a good value trade to my inexpert eyes.

The concern about waiting for him to get cut is Tampa Bay making a deal with another team.

I worry about his age/cap number a bit, but I don't know his future cap numbers either. If it's a one year deal where we just absorb the hit? Sure!

I believe there are three years left on his contract but no dead money for a team that has him.

I, too, am concered with age and taking on $13M, especially if Duke is involved where he'd be a important piece offensively, younger, and much cheaper. Hell, if we are serious about trading Duke, I'd rather get future picks or a younger player(s) with upside than a guy on, potentially, his last legs. Someone else mentioned this, but I cannot imagine trading for McCoy without some sort of contract restructuring. I could see him being outright released because he might not want to restructure.

It's these types of moves I hate seeing other teams do....take on a big contract and a name that was worth more years ago than today. Especially if he's going to be in a rotation and behind Richardson & Ogunjobi.I get the need to have a rotation of 3Ts on the interior but I'm not not all that excited with this type of transaction if it would go through.

I guess the best case scenario IMO would see him released and then we sign him to a much lesser contract than he currently has with TB.

j/c:

The trouble w/waiting for McCoy to be released has been mentioned in fragments, but it's worth noting.

--You run the risk of TB trading him to another team.

--You compete against other teams when trying to sign him.

--His price might go up if teams are competing for him.

I think it would be much wiser to trade for him w/two caveats:

--First and foremost, is he still a good player?

--Is he wiling to redo his contract?

I don't know the answers to those questions.

During free agency I was saying this is EXACTLY the type of guy we need to be paring with Baker on his rookie deal. Productive vet nearing the end of his career, desperate to have a playoff run.

Precisely.

Teams near the cap are always pushing money around. One way to do this is to convert part of a player's salary to a signing bonus, which spreads the cap hit over multiple years.

On one hand, this is somewhat akin to kicking the can down the road as the cap hit just shows up in future years. On the other hand, as long as the cap keeps going up, this represents a smaller percentage of the cap in future years. Smart teams can get an edge by taking advantage of this, but it doesn't make up for overpaying marginal players (the mistake that most teams with cap problems make.)

Good point.

j/c,

I still think that we have a need (a hole) for another DT on our roster for a rotational guy ... If not McCoy, then somebody needs to be brought into the fold.

j/c

His current contract, that we would take on should we trade for him:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/gerald-mccoy-6512/

2019: $13 million salary, no bonus, no guaranteed
2020: $10 million salary, $2.5 million bonus on 3rd day of league year, no guaranteed
2021: $10.432253 million salary, $2.5 million bonus on 3rd day of league year, no guaranteed


We could easily absorb all of that.
We could cut him at any time without any real impact.
We could re-work his deal to a new four year deal that converts most of that to a signing bonus and performance escalators with smallish salaries - that puts a fat chunk in his pocket now, lets us spread that hit over four years, lowers our outlay to retain him, and keeps him chasing performance to hit those escalators. Win-Win.

I don't know why would want to do for a 31 year old player and be on the hook for his bonus until he is 35/36 years old but the other two seem like more realistic options.

If we would get McCoy, I think it would be with the short term in mind, not offering him a four-year deal where his contact is on the books when trying to make space for Garrett, Mayfield, and Beckham.

They would have to agree to eat some salary no doubt.

You would only do it to make him more affordable in those later years by way of front-loading the deal to eat as much of it as you can this year and next. I wouldn't do it at all except it is a small show of faith to a veteran that you still want to produce. Then again, $10 million per year is a pretty solid carrot to dangle, too.

I look at the way Dorsey has structured free agent contracts, and he is not one for shoving additional money into future seasons.

Look at Richardson's deal:

Sheldon Richardson Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap
https://overthecap.com/player/sheldon-richardson/2194/

This is likely how Dorsey would structure any longer term deal with a 30+ year old veteran player.

Good point by all ... I think it's probably a question of how good we still think he is

I did not read every sentence in this tread, just scanned it briefly but I saw no guess as to what we would need to offer to get him. Any ideas? If not a Duke type player, what 2020 draft pick would make this work?

Considering that McCoy is/was a Pro Bowl starter and Duke is a role player I would imagine we would have to kick in a middle round pick (3-5)also.

i don't think we would..if anything they might be throwing in a late round pick.. We are helping them by freeing up cap and ridding them of a bad contract

That's a good question and one I don't believe anyone can answer with certainty. I think you have to look at the two main possibilities to see just how stark the difference may be in what it would require to land him.

Scenario #1: They are willing to keep him

If it's possible they may keep him on the roster if he's not traded, the price tag will probably be much higher. He's been a productive player for them and they may be considering other ways to make cap space. They're not going to give him away if he can be kept and be productive. In this scenario they're looking at the possibility of trading him and not looking at it as their only option.

Scenario #2: They feel they need to unload him due to cap restrictions

In this scenario the price could be much cheaper. In this case what would set the price is strictly based on what is offered. Depending on how many teams are bidding for his services and what they are offering, his price could be high, dirt cheap or somewhere in between.

My opinion is that with players out there on the FA market like Ndamukong Suh, if the Bucs feel a real need to get his salary off the books, the price woun't be very high.

Tampa has already said that it would rake the right deal to come along for them to trade McCoy and that they would not just give him away.

As pointed earlier there are other ways for teams to add needed salary cap space.

Also McCoy was the 4th ranked interior dlinemen in QB hits last year with 21, Sheldon Richardson had 16 and we are paying Sheldon an average salary of $12,333,333 per year compared to McCoy's $13,000,000.

I think you are overvaluing the price for Duke, he probably wouldn't get more then a 5th rnd pick.

Yeah and the giants aren’t trading Odell either. Sorry 7 million in the hole to just get draft picks in door. Someone with a big contract is getting cut or traded

www.overthecap.com ... TB has $1,834,105 over the cap they would take Duke for McCoy and be happy ...

They're the one with the dire need, we can offer just Duke and be willing to walk without a deal.

I would want McCoy and A pick for Duke
Cap implications and age

j/c:

Hmmmm......

--The OBJ trade
--The Randall trade
--The Landry trade
--The Kessler trade
--The Hogan trade
--The Hyde trade

I think I trust Dorsey on how to handle trades.

Reading the last page or two of responses, overall my thoughts align with Vers. Hopefully, we'll get clear with him what his role would be. I hope it would be appealing to him to be a highly valued piece of a d-line rotation on a team with better playoff prospects than Tampa. I"m confident we could renegotiate his contract to a front-loaded deal If we want McCoy, trading is preferable to waiting for his release. The trade value of Duke for him seems equitable, on the surface. Duke has been underutilized here. He gets more opportunities in TB. McCoy gets to be a significant contributor both on the field and in the locker room for a team making a playoff push.

This guy got some juice still. I would make that trade right now. Duke going back to Florida and getting to be featured, and McCoy getting up in age and going somewhere he can be active in the rotation, sounds like a win win to me.

The Dline rotation of Larry, Sheldon, and McCoy. What's not to like about that?

Prp, I don't think they are in as dire need as some think. McCoy has been on the trade block for a month now if Tampa was that desperate to get rid of him I think they would have pulled the trigger during the draft so they could have used the pick on a player they liked. As someone else said there are other ways they can come up with $8.5 mill in cap space they need.

I believe JT. Only question is if the step is still there. Sounds like a decent trade. I think it might be better for Duke overall. Like him; would miss him; but life goes on. A few more sacks this year might mean games won. Wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I remain a wagering man. Value swap is OK by me.

j/C

I like McCoy but I'm not excluding other options. Especially when you consider Dorsey keeps doubling down that Duke won't be traded. I prefer McCoy but I would consider FAs like Corey Liuget or Benny Logan for that matter.

A rotation of Ogunjobi, Richardson and Coley is simply not enough.

I've never heard Dorsey say he wouldn't be traded. He has said he's a valuable member of the team. That they have plans for Duke.

If I had to bet I would say that holds true for everyone that is on, or considered part of the 53 man roster. You're never going to say publicly that you are considering trading a player away.

I have no idea if there are talks that include trading Duke for McCoy. Some of these rumors that are put out make zero sense and have little to no merit.

Let's put it this way, would anyone have predicted that the Browns would trade Zeitler for Vernon? So while I'm not saying a trade like this will happen, I don't think anyone can rule it out.

If they are desperate for cap space, I'd just offer a pick for him and keep Duke

Oh, they have time to work with, but only until they have to start signing their picks to get them into town. I think Draft picks are allowed to participate in the Rookie mini camp without a contract, but I think that's it - I don't think they can then do the follow-on OTA's and they definitely cannot come to Training Camp without a contract. So, once those dates start to roll around and it becomes more important to get those rookies in-house, the more pressure they will feel.

As for the other options, that takes two to Tango. McCoy can decline to restructure or do a new deal, giving them only the options of trade him or release him, or find another expensive veteran or two that they can restructure.

I think Dorsey & Tampa are currently playing poker; feeling each other out, seeing who will show a little panic first. They will be asking way too much and we will be low-balling them. The thing is, we do not NEED McCoy or anyone like him. He's a luxury pick up if we get him, so we can sit allll summer long, checking in with them regularly, and wait them out.

I'd rate McCoy as a "nice to have" not a "must have". I'd also rate Duke as "it would be good to have him here but if he can bring value to the middle of the D-line it would be okay to lose him". Dorsey clearly knows the prices he's willing to pay on any given deal so I'm happy to patiently wait to see how this plays out.

That's provided that they don't have other teams interested in McCoy.

Is there any traction to this rumor? We have 6 pages of speculation and deal making by us the fans....not a bad thing, they are great convo's...just saying...

But I am at the point where I want to know if there is more concrete info as to what may be happening...are there talks going on...are there no talks going on...Are we close to a deal...are we not even trying? Are we making a mountain out of a mole hill? Or are we flying down on the right track?

Doerschuk was essentially first on the OBJ trade and he is the one who wrote the article about McCoy. There are also others on Twitter who know things who have brought attention to this rumor.

I think I might have said it more strongly than Dorsey, I'll admit that. But Dorsey has repeated as recently as yesterday that there are no plans to trade Johson. Of course, he hasn't said that there are absolutely no circumstances under which Duke could be moved. We are all aware that gamesmanship is part of teams doing deals with each other.

On 2nd thought, the trade mentioned may be a bad idea. You can't put too much into a defensive line until at some point you'd mess up the chemistry and then be worse off than if you hadn't.

If you took away the Vernon and Richardson additions, then sure, but at this point, or make that at "some" point, it'll be tuff for everyone to find suitable roles; That maximize the benefits of the trades
and if you put too much money in the D-line, or any one area, eventually something will have to give.

The time to win is now. Worry about money after we get the ring. As far as chemistry I don’t think it will hurt, you’re basically upgrading Larry and coley with two more productive guys

These are big, heavy men that you are asking to go all out whenever they're on the field. If you want them to be effective well into the 4th quarter, to the end of the game, you MUST have a rotation of at least 3-4 good big men to man the interior D-Line at a high level of performance. You're worried about chemistry? I'm worried about getting gashed by the opponent's run game in the 4th quarter because my undermanned interior D-Line has been out there too long.

Cal that is the way I feel about it as well.

Dorsey does not play an open hand. If the deal is right he will make it.

Dorsey will say all the right things publicly. At the same time he will do anything he can to improve the team chances to win games.

McCoy would seem to be a good fit.

I have maintained from when Hunt was added Duke's days are numbered. That is why Duke requested the trade.

There are only so many touches. For the first eight games Duke has a role. After that his role would be depth.

To make a serious push for the playoffs Coley needs to be the fourth member of a four-man interior d-line rotation. The team needs to acquire a player that will push Coley to the fourth spot in that rotation. If it's McCoy or another player is an open question.

Veron along with Richardson are certainly upgrades but I'm uncertain they are enough to stop this team from being gashed between the tackles as they often were last season. I think Dave mentioned his concerns about fatigue in the fourth quarter. On multiple occassions, at times this happens in the middle of the first half. Certainly against Pittsburg, Baltimore, KC, and the Chargers.

It would be a helluva thing to have either McCoy or Ogun as our 3rd DT. Flip that coin, it looks pretty good no matter which side is up.

McCoy is great against the run and doesn’t miss tackles. I was reading an article that said given his age and contract they’d should take a swap of picks or a late rounder and run because that’s about the best they can hope for

I really was hoping we would sign Richardson. Some of us even talked about the possibility before it happened. I will say that I thought he was an excellent run defender due to the games I watched. However, I read some reports on him that said he was more of a pass rusher than a run stuffer.

Ogunjobi isn't very good against the run. He gets pushed around some. Coley is okay, but not dominant. I think the three guys are pretty good together, but I believe we still need another DT who is a run stuffer. There's nothing worse than getting the ball crammed down your throat.

McCoy or Suh seem like logical choices.

GC, I think the opposition, of views is concerning others might not realize, I hold a very high opinion of Trevon Coley, and another high opinion of Ogunjobi, in respect to their abilities.
If it's a rotatation worry, Ekuale, Chris Smith, and Chad Thomas, it's a rotation pushing one of them to a more limited role.
I see it as asking to pay 13 million/year to replace Ekuale,

and then eventually you'll find somebody from some position group, and no cap money to pay.

I think just getting Ogunjobi and Coley healthy will help our D Line a lot. McCoy would still be nice. He feels a little bit like a luxury over a need to me, though.

j/c

From what I'm reading, don't sleep on DT Carl Davis. Not used under GW, but re-signed/extended awhile ago. He was a surprise cut by the Rats before we put him on our 53. He's played...and played well...in the NFL.

So do you know him as far as chemistry history? Would McCoy as a luxury (I liked that .!) be good for the locker room, good with rooks, and stuff? I do not know any knocks on him myself. Can never surround yourself with too much quality.

I'm not ignoring that Richardson and Vernon should help this d-line. But I'm also not in denial that any of the guys from Coley to Lawrence will suddenly become different players. We can either stand pat with Coley, Price, Davis, and Lawrence or, we could acquire a player whose career productivity surpasses each one of them. Even at his "advanced" age of 31, McCoy is the better player, it's not even close. Davis was released from one of the better d-line units in Baltimore. He couldn't compete there so it's hard for me to accept that his game has changed significantly now. He couldn't even beat out Brian Price for reps on our porous d-line in 2018.

I don't think you give McCoy a starting job. His enticement to become a Brown is the real possibility of going to the playoffs. The money can be worked out. Not having to carry the load in Cleveland would also extend his career. If not McCoy, then Luiget. Suh would be a hard get because he's always been expensive.

From everything I've read, he's always been great in the locker room. He's also always been the starter and comes off the field as little as possible. I'm just not sure how whoever got bumped from being the starter would handle it. It could work out amazing, it's just kind of an unknown. Super-competitive people want to be on the field as much as possible. Spending roughly 1/3 of the time on the sideline would be an adjustment. Certainly something that could work, but with our history, I'm kind of hyper vigilant towards potential landmines.

j/c...

I think McCoy will be a great pick up.

I'm hoping of course we will have a lot of 3 and outs and our guys will be fresh. But big guys going all out running downfield with a full motor like we want them and they don't have to pace themselves as we got 3 excellent DTs.

Also if we are going against a run run team Richardson can play some DE...also I wish us to be dominant on 3rd and short which we will bring in McCoy with the other 2.

Just gives us many ways to utilize the talent we have.

I'm blurting out possible usages but the fact is when you got talent you got the opportunity to think out of the box and dominate teams.

We can absorb his cap hit...Tampa cannot.

We don't have to see the end of his contract if we do not wish to and it won't create any dead money.

He is 31 as compared to our other two DTs....so I'm sure he will understand the Starting position scenario. And we also could see Larry sitting down and coming in at opportunities.
I see that as a possible scenario.

jmho...if it happens it can only be good for us!

Need to be as strong as possible against the Run. Look at the schedule next year and there are a number of teams which could be potentially run heavy teams:

1. Baltimore (2)
2. Pittsburgh (2)
3. Buffalo
4. Seattle
5. New England - if your D dictates
6. San Francisco
7. Tennessee
8. New York Jets (with Bell)
9. Los Angeles Rams

Just to be clear...I am not suggesting that Davis is equal to McCoy. I just said to not 'sleep on' Davis. The scuttlebutt is that he and GW didn't 'mesh'. (BTW, I've read the same with Chad Thomas.) Then we see that Davis was quietly re-signed this off-season. Dorsey and Wilks must see something they like in him.

Davis being cut by a team with a very good interior DL is not a bad mark against Davis. You posted as if it's a bad thing that he couldn't cut it on a team with "one of the better D-line units". It's not unreasonable to think that Baltimore's sixth (and released) DT is better than was our fourth DT at this time last year.

Coley played through injuries last year if I remember correctly. Healthy and not asked to be a starter, he might be better than he has been since he's been here.

That said, McCoy would be a significant upgrade over any backup DT on the roster...no doubt. However, his contract IS a problem...if it wasn't a problem, he'd not be "available".

I read an article this morning that suggested the likely candidates in a trade are us and the Raiders. They have more cap space (especially after 2019) and can offer him a starting position. We are thought to be a playoff contender - something McCoy has "never even sniffed" (using his own words). Lastly, none of his current contract is guaranteed. I could see us trying to re-negotiate his contract if we trade for him and I would think we would be all over him if he were released.

A DL with Garrett, Vernon, Richardson, McCoy is SCARY

I love Duke but if they offered McCoy for Duke Straight Up ... Done Deal

Good well-reasoned post. I understand where you're coming from much more clearly.

BTW, not that you said it but if we did sign McCoy I don't envision him as a starter instead of Ogunjobi. Larry has earned his spot. I consider him a foundational piece. I'd establish up front with McCoy that he would be a complimentary addition in a good rotation. If he didn't see himself in that role it would lessen my interest in bringing him in.

I was trying to think of a comparison for us if we got McCoy. The best comp I could come up with is Seattle in 2013 (the year they won the Super Bowl). They had a bunch of very talented players (Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Brandon Mebane, Chris Clemons, Red Bryant) that they moved all along the line to exploit the best matchups. The difference is that none of those guys had the upside of Myles Garrett. That line wrecked tons of teams.

I can't wait for the season to start.

" can't wait for the season to start." Me too man. I am really looking forward to this season. No reason we shouldn't make the playoffs. We have the talent, we shall see if we have the coaching.

I'm actually contemplating buying a jersey. Haven't done that since the move when I burned all of mine... Kicking myself now for sure! Hundreds of dollars worth of jerseys, hats, etc.

I think they finally have this thing heading in the right direction... Now, do I get a Landry jersey or a Chubb jersey? Difficult dilemma...

The negative of reworking a deal is that it adds dead cap if we cut him.

Blowing his fingers off and now breaking his neck. He's definitely had a strange collection of offseasons.

This obviously makes retaining McCoy a greater need by the Bucs. I'm not a contract guru but by what I'm seeing on Sortrac it would cost around $14 in cap space to keep JPP on the active roster. It looks like it cost bout $7.5 mill in dead money if he were released. I don't know how any type of injury designation would impact his cost. Timing would still seem to remain an important element. Regardless of this latest bad news they will still need to do something to create cap space to sign their full draft class. I don't know if dragging out the McCoy saga presents any benefit. LIke most teams I"m sure they want to get their full class signed before training camp.

Not strange, not really. Just predictable results of irresponsible activity.

Sorry to laugh...LOL....no kidding...wow.

A broken neck and football isn't a good thing....heck, it isn't good any time.

JPP's injury makes their need for cap space even greater. I bet we could get McCoy for a fifth round pick (and that might be overpaying).

Getting McCoy would be a huge get.

The front four (five) would be able to apply pressure without a blitz. It would make the linebackers and secondary better.

I have been watching daily for something to happen.

j/c:

Does anyone know how good McCoy is against the run. I don't watch Tampa Bay much.

I don't watch TB often so I can not say.

What I do know is he has been a 6 time Pro Bowler and consistently productive. His numbers dropped some last year he missed some games.

But he has always had a great reputation as a teammate and high effort guy.

Coming to the Browns could be one of those type moves that regenerate a guy. Things sound pretty sour in Tampa.

Thank you, Grateful. You provide a ton of great information to the rest of us. I really appreciate your efforts.

Years back, I remember the time one Jerry Ball gave us. Saw him at camp in Berea, shirt off, and just massive. He had game left, so regeneration is not to be ruled out. Got his autograph. One of this fan's faves!

Playoff is a bonus incentive. Little extra.

No, ... No,

A running back has way more impact on a game than any defensive lineman.
A running back with Duke's skill set of being the pass cathing type threat that he is, and with the effective running game he has even not being over used in the past, so there aren't too many miles on his legs so to speak.

Duke, for the style of player he is, even if he took a step back in his effectiveness for a time, would still be more valuable to effect the outcomes of games and a season than what a D-lineman offers you.

It's like, everyone understands kickers only kick, and only take the field a few plays a game, so nobody would argue a kicker is more valuable than a number 1 Wr who might score 15+ td's a year.

A D lineman is only going to get to the QB sometimes, and even if he gets a big play, if it results in 2nd and very long, the team can still convert on the next play and totally negate the D linemans play. (or often winds up with an "automatic 1st down penalty" in this league)

Running backs, WR's Qb's, they score TD's and those effect the outcomes of games and seasons to a greater extent than the difference a team gets

from having a little greater upside at a D lineman, vs. having a D lineman with standard affectiveness.

Even if/since/though he's asked for a trade, Duke is still a more valuable asset.

Runningback > D-lineman, especially if you already have enough effective D lineman to hold the line of scrimmage so to speak,
I mean if there were a glaring hole and absolutely no way to stop the run or get pressure do to complete incompetence at one or more of the starting D-line spots then there could be an argument,

but, having enough already, the benefits derived by the upside of the person to person improvement to upgrade your last, one of your last D-linemen from average or above, to better than average or sometimes great, doesn't equal, as a value gain, the effectiveness toward scoring points and then winning, that would be the decrease of losing a runningback with the abilities to sustain offensive drives and make catches and provide value, in a dynamic way,

Even if the team, lowered the usage of Duke, and doesn't know what a player they have in him, and how to make proper use of his effectiveess by getting the ball to him in space .. in 2018, or 17, like they did in 16

Doesn't take away the ability that is present if they would just choose to make use of this again,

and FOR THAT! Duke is too valuable for a straight up trade.

But other people will hold differing views, but it's not an exact science. Talent is not an exact science that can be measured in wonderlic scores and work out numbers, those are just indicators to try and help,

But that's why they play the games, that's football.

This story keeps lingering. Where there's smoke...who knows??? It would cap off what already looks like a tough defensive front.

IMO.

We are not talking Chubb who is our lead back. In addition Chubb can catch the ball.

Duke is a decent player. However, he has not been the lead back and will not be the lead back. So his touches are limited inside an offense that is going to throw the ball.

After eight games Duke will be the odd man out. Even now Hilliard is well thought of.

McCoy was the third pick in the first round. Highly rated DL will always be picked over a runner like Duke. Sequon is an exception to go second as a RB. And Duke is no Sequon.
McCoy was selected to six straight Pro Bowls. Wiki his stats.

McCoy plays as a part of a unit. Where individuals skills benefit unit skills. When you upgrade a position. You upgrade a unit.

There is a phrase "defense wins championships". When you can limit the opposing offense in scoring your percentage to win games goes up.

Duke has never been to a Pro Bowl. His impact with the Browns at this time is limited and will be so even further after Hunts eight games.

McCoy will contribute the entire year and do so at a higher level. IMO.

The only real value Duke holds is as an insurance policy for the first 8 games. IMO he is easily replaced on this team. Hilliard may have already replaced him.

You also have to consider that Dorsey is doing what most GM's do and purge the roster of players they didn't select, keeping only the out and out good players. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kirksey and Schobert cut in favor of the drafted guys. Maybe not both this year, one might be kept.

I am a fan of Duke. I'd prefer the team to acquire McCoy without including Duke in the deal but I don't accept the idea that running backs are generally more valuable than D-tackles. Surely not a running back who is relegated to a third-down change of pace role compared to an interior d-lineman who has above average production in both run defense and pass defense.

Below are two sites with their own positional rankings. To be fair these rankings vary widely. Neither has RB, especially third down back above interior d-line.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ack-to-returner

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1659...days-nfl#slide0

Again in the spirit of full disclosure, the ranking below does put running back and d-lineman on the same tier but even then gives a nod to the d-line.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1556...to-tiers#slide5


When looking at this issue in context it becomes clear that the Browns better be as prepared or over prepared to stop the run when this season opens. Eight of our 2019 opponents were in the top 15 rushing teams in the league. In order of their rankings: 1, Seatle; 2, Baltimore; 3, LA Rams; 5, NE; 7, Tennesse; 9, Buffalo; 12, Denver and 13, San Fransico. See the link below.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

Thanks for the info, but not many would even consider that a 3rd down back is more important than McCoy would be if here.

Grateful's posts are always great.

I think we get McCoy.

Let the NFL beware.

Wow. We meet six of the eight in the first half of the season, four in the first five weeks. We'll be tested by the elite, early and often.

1, Seattle: Week 6
2, Baltimore: Week 4
3, LA Rams: Week 3
5, NE: Week 8
7, Tennessee: Week 1
9, Buffalo: Week 10
12, Denver: Week 9
13, San Francisco: Week 5

IMO, you need 4 RB's, (but they never have em) that can legit start and not be a liability on gameday, so let's say 3.
I'm not as high on Hilliard as some here.

The D'.. front 7 are drafted higher to stop the prolific runners, and passers so draft position, every year we see it,
I put it down to (DL) there's 4 on the field, sometimes 3, sometimes 5 on goal line or 4th and 1, and when the league has 32 teams vs the old 28 or less, .. the talent pool, you really gotta get what you can because one bad spot really gets exploited in the league.

Everyone knows Hunt is out 8 games, and if I hold the view it's the team not getting Duke the ball,
as more of , (or moreso than some, not an entirety but a percentage), of his not looking like as good of a player, ... or as much so, as Hunt looked in KC,
VERSES Hunt's amount of being a better person 1 v 1 than Duke at the position,

than I might think Hunt won't look as good in Cleveland as Hunt looked in KC, due to the reason the Browns scheme won't use that position as often.

.. The phrase "Defense wins championships", I agree it has merit, But people ignore the 2nd word, "wins",

It's because in my view, the "getting" to the championships, (With great offense, talent and play) weeds out all the teams without the Best offensive performances,

So when you get to that Championship, everyone there is demonstrating the utmost levels of offensive abilities, including your opponent, and (talent and play) on defense, plus offense, are to a point where ,, well:
If everybodys a perfect player offense has an advantage, even if it's slight,

Thus the phrase! when you get there, the "play" not the "talent" , because we'll assume at this said championship everybody's a perfect(ish) player,

and if so, the offense has the advantage, Wherein!!!

The phrase defense wins championships, is correct because,
The Defense, that rises it's level of "Play", on the day, to meet that disadvantage "wins championships"

But if you never have the offense, which the team rarely does, you continue in 3rd/4th place division finishes, weeded out of getting near that championship which "defense wins".

Now, On the again subject of McCoy trade for Duke straight up,

I might hold the view it's less of a win for the Browns on a sliding scale as the Browns', (before the trade), talent on the D-line slides more toward a great D-line, vs sliding the other way toward being a D-line with needs and holes that'll get exploited.

You said, " McCoy will contribute the entire year and do so at a higher level"

I feel the same way, but let me rank who I feel the same way about.

These Browns, we'll include McCoy, let's say McCoy joind the Browns via trade, I feel these Browns will contribute the entire year and do so at a higher level.

Level 1, Level 2, Level 3,

Myles Garrett 1,
Trevon Coley 2,
Larry Ogunjobi 2,
Sheldon Richardson 1
Olivier Vernon 2,
Chris Smith 3,
Chad Thomas 3,

Gerald McCoy, 1, so we'll say McCoy is #1 level, and I think #3 still means these guys will contribute the entire year and at a higer level,

My point being, if the above was worse, then the McCoy trade would become more attractive.

the attractive thing about McCoy would be that his salary has 0 guaranteed money after this year

I listed our run defense on the Concerns thread. That information you posted is relevant. According to the information that Grateful posted, McCoy could help us defend the run.

I would be happy if we acquired him.

j/c

I wonder if Chad Thomas is playing a factor in the Browns not signing or trading for a DT. It's said the Browns are high on him. His bio page says he played in 4 games in 2018, with no stats. I honestly don't remember seeing him at all. It would be wonderful of he's been a gem hiding on our bench this whole time due to injury, but I have my doubts.

is Thomas seen as an inside dt or an edge guy?

I think that he is seen as a guy who can do both, but his size would probably indicate DE.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that McCoy is a 3-Tech DT.

McCoy is, but Chad Thomas is a versatile inside.out guy.

Hilliard is a down grade from Duke...I wish for us only to make upgrades in our moves.

I think we are waiting on the Bucs to release McCoy so they can get cap room currently at around 15mil...that is pretty much the hit McCoy will make and he is on a 6 year...54 mil guaranteed contract. I'm pretty sure there will be dead money if they just release him.

The trade straight up for Duke makes sense. Maybe not in talent vs. talent but they would be able to drop a 6 year contract worth 95million with 4 remaining. I am not sure if that is a good move for us economically or not? Still I think he has some good game in him especially in a solid rotation that when he is 34 we can redo the contract or release him I don't think he would see the entire 4 years from us. Two championship years would be enough. Then we would need the space to sign some of these young pups doing a great job!

jmho

j/c

McCoy has more leverage than the average vet here.

The Bucs don't want to lose him for nothing. I have no idea if they face a dead cap blitz if he's released. He's unlikely to voluntarily take a paycut when he can wait-it-out and see if a new team acquires him WITH his new contract...however unlikely that is.

If what I'm gathering on the interwebs is correct, there are only two teams that COULD reasonably absorb his existing contract right now - us and the Raiders.

McCoy holds the cards in any trade negotiation where the acquiring team wants to re-negotiate his contract. He can agree to renegotiate if traded to a team he desires...he can just-say-no to renegotiating with a team he does not desire.

McCoy may also consider his playing situation on his new team. He is unlikely to be a starter here...but is most-likely a starter with the Raiders. His additional consideration is that the Browns are sitting IN a playoff window - a place where McCoy has never been. While the Raiders are trying to build that same window but just have some pieces/parts right now.

I'd like to keep Duke, but if he's what it takes to get McCoy (with a renegotiated deal) then I'm all in. FWIW, don't sleep on the UDFA RB from Miami Trayone Gray - 6'1" 233 and ran a 4.37 at his pro day (4.48 at the combine). THAT is after recover from a knee injury. Low miles...willing to play FB or RB...injured and stuck behind some good RBs during his career.

At this point in his career, I don't think "starting" is his motivation. He knows teams rotate the big guys and he is at the age he now knows why and probably welcomes playing 1/2 to 3/4 a game. That extends a career.

Starting or not, he will get plenty of reps. When you are on the field, you are the starter.

Baseball and soccer are the only team sports I can think of that once you leave the game, you cannot return. I don't watch volleyball and sports like that, so maybe they have similar rules.

I'd also be concern about his ability to stay healthy; I'm not sure what his injury history has been like lately

A lot of good insights being shared here. I'm not one for intentionally derailing a thread but Peen, you should check out women's beach volleyball. There is a lot going on there!

I totally misread Keith's question - sorry.

The more I look into the whole picture of McCoy in TB.

It looks doubtful. Arians imo. should not have made the comments he has in regards to McCoy. "He is not as disruptive as he was four years ago." "He is at that point where salary is high and production is going down."

This is a GM decision.

McCoy has been a premier player in this league. A locker room leader as well. Not a playoff game in his time there.

He will be 32 in Feb.

He is a prideful player. These types of situations usually end poorly with the home team. He most likely has another 3 years left in the game. In the right situation they could be productive years.

He has no guaranteed money left on his contract. He will not make $13 with the Bucs. So he has to accept a lot less or be left swinging in the wind.

He will most likely be traded or cut.

Time becomes important. June 5th is mandatory camp. Obviously they would like to get a return rather than cut him. I don't see him taking $7 to play there.

So the Browns can wait and see what happens or step up and make some kind of offer.

This is where Dorsey has to weigh risk/reward and patience.

Besides Duke what would Dorsey be willing to deal?

That depends on what value he believes McCoy will bring. Do we need him? No. How much would he improve the team at what cost?

I hope we get him.

This is a interesting case to follow.

U gotta wonder who else is involved and what there willing to part with ...

He’d really solidify things for us ... he won’t even be close to the center of the O’s attention either ... he’d be a real nice get for us ...

*fingers crossed*

Indy has the most cap space in the NFL. Then the Niners, the Texans, the Seahawks, then us, then the Jets, Raiders, Titans, Bills, and Dolphins. Most of these could easily absorb McCoy's contract. The questions is; Would they want to? It's a $13 million deal, but it is less next year, and none of it is guaranteed from here out.

I doubt he will get $13 from anyone.

It will all depend upon how a deal is structured.

I am guessing but I believe something will happen before June. It would not be good to have him holdout from mandatory.

Seems like this is one of those "where there is smoke there is fire things."

Everything coming out of TB sounds like he is gone.

Starting to imagine him on our roster.

Damn, the front four would be pretty intimidating.

I would expect that if this happens it would go down just before June 4th.

Color me happy. If it is to happen, sooner is better. Think OTA dates might speed this along.

What a front!

No doubt early is better, but the guy is a pro. We could sign the guy on the Saturday before the first game and be able to play him 40% of the time. The other interior guy could give him a quick heads up to drive right because he is stunting left or he is driving left, you need to stunt right.

I agree. He is a plug and play guy.

This is about money period. TB does not have cap space.

They don't have the means to pay his contract. He has to take a pay cut.

A this point there is no real incentive for him to play for TB. Unless they say come play and we will pay you your $13 million.

So as June 4th approaches TB has a decision to make.Trade or cut. Who will offer what?

Or will teams wait for him to be cut? If that is the case we get in line and he goes where he chooses.

If we are more aggressive we offer them a trade.

I agree with it; all you said is a quick huddle fix. I think some of it, meshing with new locker room would help us as well. I am excited to see him on the field for us. I see no way TB can keep him. Big deal somehow.

As I also said, early is better for the reasons you mention.

If it happens, it is going to be before the Saturday before the Titans game. I just used that to illustrate how he would still be able to step in and be a force from day one.

Not a fan of trading much for him if anything. He's 31 and his current contract includes 2.5 million roster bonuses for each of 2020 and 2021, which almost certainly makes him a one year rental for whatever team he ends up on with that level of salary.

Heck, Chris long was only making like 3 million a year his last few years in the league. Just sayin'

Chris Long is also 3 years older and has been a backup for the last 4 years, so of course he's going to make less.

Just using him as a random example since he just retired.

A more direct comparison would likely be Ndamukong Suh if you prefer. Once players get to a certain age they either play year-to-year deals or get paid less. That's why I wouldn't trade much for him.

Sorry for any confusion

Serious question because I don't follow this part of the NFL. We can't restructure or rework McCoy's contract if we sign him?

If we trade for him we could restructure his deal.

If he becomes a free agent and we sign him, it would be to whatever contract both sides to belong to.

I believe that ANY contract in ANY circumstance can be re-negotiated if both sides agree to do so. In this instance, I think there is 0% chance that we simply agree to a trade and leave the contract as-is.

Ideally, TB cuts him before TC and we sign him. That would require a new contract. (Bear with me here, lots of Mr Obvious so far.)

IMO...The complication in getting McCoy here is probably less about the compensation we would give up to "secure" him (over/versus free agency) and more the need to re-negotiate his current deal prior to finalizing any trade. HOWEVER, TB surely won't entertain our negotiating with McCoy UNTIL AFTER we agree in-principle to some sort of a deal...and no party is willing to "give-in" first to get to the table. It's a poker game that gets played a lot in these situations.

Thanks to you and YTown. I thought so, but wasn't sure.

We could afford McCoy this year, under the cap. There are no contractual cap implications going forward with McCoy, IIRC. In other words, if we trade a 6th for him, and he plays out this year under his current deal, then we could just cut him next year, if we wanted, or needed, to.

Yep. His deal lost all guarantees after last season. He has roster bonuses, but those can be avoided by cutting him before they become due.

So, in short terms, we could trade for him as if he had a 1 year, $13 million deal, if we wanted to.

I agree. I've read around the interwebs though that we would like to save 'some' cap $$$ this year that could be carried-forward to help in upcoming years. Otherwise, McCoy might already be here.

Only if he agrees to it.

Also, any new deal will create dead money in future years, so we would no longer be able to cut him with zero impact. Everything has a trade-off.

You'd have to explore just how much you could save per year with a renegotiated contract that he would agree to see if it is even worth doing.

I don't think there is any dead money remaining on his contract...for us or TB.

There isn't. But when restructuring, I think a team will normally transition money from base salary into immediate bonus dollars paid out, which can be ammoritized over a set amount of years (assuming a restructured deal adds years, which we don't know).

I don't evision a restructured deal (with the same amount of money $13M) for one year because the money would be recieved regardless. I think it's a matter of cutting and signing a smaller one or taking a pay cut as part of a trade (which I guess is also considered a restructuring, but mainly adding context to Purp's scenario).

ideally: get him for a 7th round pick, absorb his contract this year, have him stud out, then have no obligation anymore

If we renegotiate his deal, the new deal will have dead money in later years. This is because the new deal will have a signing bonus. One of the most common ways a deal gets restructured is that a large portion of the remaining salary gets converted to a signing bonus.

The only sensible way the deal could get reworked would be to totally jack up his hit this year so that it can be progressively lower in later years. This would likely involve adding a 4th year to the deal.

Come on down!

We'll see what happens now.

Now we have to convince him this is where he belongs. Who else has cap space for an additional significant contract that might be interested in McCoy?

The Saints

I would guess he’s not going to get a significant contract. Probably a one year deal worth around $8 million.

Step one...complete.

Now to wait and see. He might not have quite as much in the tank as Suh had last season, but a 10 million dollar rental is still reasonable.

Do you have any idea how many movies I could rent for 10 million dollars...

Depends on if you're doing HD, SD and 24 or 48 hour rentals. But probably 2.5 million

Well played. Well played.

On a semi-serious note, the average American can expect to earn less than 2 million dollars in their 45-year earnings career with a rather large chunk of that going toward interest on debts (primarily a mortgage debt). That is all.

Nobody pays $75 to watch us do our jobs. That is all.

Might wanna watch the Colts. They seemingly have a need at DT, they have a ton of cap space, and Ballard--who worked w/Dorsey--is aggressive, just like his former boss.

And never count the Rams out.

Sorry, I just saw this pop up on twitter. It's from April 29th.

Just saw he was released.

Been expecting this. Now we shall see.

We will be in it. Have no idea where McCoy's head is as far contacts within other teams and where he would like to play?

I like our chances.

It looks as if former Bucs’ DT Gerald McCoy already is wanted in Cleveland.....

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1130626450997043200

Lol, you gotta love OBJ.

Dorsey is on the phone.

Not sure who else is interested. I guess now he is a total free agent and nothing remains from any previous contract.

McCoy will want to go where he sees a good fit and a winner. And of course who has the do rey me.

I missed it. What did he do?

OBJ reacted to news of his release with a one-word tweet. Cleveland!

I took a quick glance at the cap situation of most of the teams mentioned as suitors for McCoy. Financially, it looks like the Browns and the Seahawks are in the best position to sign him. I did look at both the cap situation of Indy and their depth chart on Ourlads. It looks like they play mostly an odd front. I don't know if that would be attractive to him.

You may have already figured it out, but if not, scroll up 3 posts from yours.

Thanks to you and guard.

J/C

The following seems somewhere between wrong-headed and absurd.

Rapaport is saying that the Bucs replacement target is Suh. To me, he has a reputation for being extremely difficult to negotiate with. I don't see him accepting a discount or "prove it" deal. If this is their plan the Bucs should have cut a deal to keep McCoy. It's reported that Suh has made over $190 mill in his career. He can't be leveraged.

Just thinking about this and trying to put myself in Gerald's shoes.

You know he wants to play. You have to feel like he has something to prove. Given the crap that preceded his release.

If the Browns make an offer it would have to have a lot of appeal. First the talent on the line. He would have to feel like he could make some noise there. He can see what kind of team we have now. Garrett and Vernon outside, Richardson, Ogunjobi and him in three way rotation.

If the $ are right. Damn that would be a good fit for him.

It would put me over the edge. I may need to go into a coma till september.

Using the logic he could also go to the Saints and pull a Joe Haden.

According to Sportrac the Saints have less than $8.5 million in cap room.

I took a second look at Indy. They have the money to outbid the Browns in the vicinity of $40 mill. I still think schematically the Browns are a better fit.

Or even the Falcons and play next to Jarret

~8 mil might be fair market value for him. We already know that no team will sign him for over 13 mil.

Just quickly trying to find some similar players (DTs over 31), and it looks like Snacks Harrison just signed a 9 mil a year deal at age 30. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I know all my friends from NO think that they'll be getting him.

And this is why you don't trade a young, valuable player on a good contract (Duke Johnson) for an overpaid, 30+ yr old player a team actively desperately trying to move him (McCoy). Because in the end, the latter will usually just be released.

J/C
I have mixed feelings about Mike Florio as a writer. It often seems he's trying to be the smartest guy in the room. That seldom works in real life or journalism. I do think there are some insights in the article included below.

What’s next for Gerald McCoy?
Posted by Mike Florio on May 21, 2019, 6:19 AM EDT

Getty Images
The Buccaneers didn’t want to pay veteran defensive tackle Gerald McCoy $13 million in 2019. More importantly, no one else wanted to trade for McCoy’s contract.

And that’s often the impetus for a trade. Yes, the new team wants the player. But the new team also prefers to surrender a draft pick or a player for the contract, in lieu of potentially having to pay even more in an open competition if/when the player is released.


The fact that the Bucs couldn’t find a trade partner for McCoy means that no one wanted to give up anything of value for the privilege of getting McCoy at $13 million in compensation this season. Which suggests that McCoy, on the open market, will have a hard time getting to that number.

The Browns are the only team that had been linked to McCoy before he was released; if another team had been considering a trade for McCoy, that news surely would have emerged, if for no reason other than to create a real market for McCoy’s services — and ultimately to spark a deal.

That’s not to say there aren’t other interested teams, but if it were believed that McCoy would be a guy who commands significant dollars if available in free agency (i.e., more than the $13 million he was due to make in 2019), the Bucs should have been able to trade him, somewhere.

Spitballs regarding potentially interested teams already have emerged, likely pushed by the McCoy camp in order to spark a market for his services. Still, the Browns continue to be the only team that had been linked to McCoy. And without a second team to drive up the price, McCoy will have a hard time approaching the money he was due to make in 2019 from Tampa — especially with multiple other veteran defensive linemen still available to be signed.

If McCoy somehow matches or surpasses it, the message will be that the Bucs bungled what should have been an ideal situation to trade not just the player but the contract.

It will be interesting to see what his contract ends up being...not so much the $ amount but length of his contract. If McCoy thinks he has plenty of gas left in the tank, I don't know why he would want to accept a one-year contract thus forfeiting a certain amount of security to injury and guarantees, which, I would think, most teams would offer and prefer. Maybe a two-year deal with ability to cut after one with little dead cap? Still if no one is willing to do a multi-year deal, then he will be stuck no matter what.

I agree with you on Florio in general, but I side with his notion that the teams who are "interested" were probably brought up by his agents to establish a healthy market.

Well, if they wanna take a look, now is the time.

I too think it will be interesting to see what happens.

I can see a one year deal, especially here. If all things line up for us, his addition could put us over the top to win it all. We can afford him now, but not next year. If he wants a multi-year deal, perhaps we don't sign him? If I were him, I might push a contract that would make it hard for us to release him after one year... just a thought...

I don't know what the dollar amount will be, but I think a 2-year deal structured similar to S. Richardson's deal should suffice in getting a deal done.

I think you can eliminate the Saints and Pats due to cap space (Pats just re-signed Shelton too)

Sent him a cryptic tweet "Cleveland"

I think the Colts will offer a longer term deal than we might and he signs there.

Sign him

j/c

i remember a time where a player wanting a shot at the playoffs would rule us out as a destination.

"Git-R-Done!"

j/c:

Problem is, we wouldn't be getting the 2012-15 McCoy ... we'd get the 2019 version

Tough to know how much he has left at a higher level

I'd say a 2 year deal in the range of 6-8 per with team option for the second

I'm no more worried by a decline in play by McCoy than I am from Suh. Both taken I believe within picks of each other in 2010. He won't be expected to take reps at an extremely high rate. We get quality play from him and the other guys in rotation.

He suffered a calf strain or something last season. Even though he started 14 games, his ability may have been hampered and still got 6 sacks.

I wouldn't overpay, but he still has value.

Yes I agree with that, as long as he isn't looking for more than a 1 year guaranteed deal

This article provides a good breakdown on how effective McCoy is:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-exploring-the-landing-spots-for-veteran-di-gerald-mccoy

I was actually just about to post that. Good read, though the Browns should probably be included in one of the potential landing spots.

Yeah, I was shocked by that omission.

Ty. Good read with the exception of the snub to the Browns as possible landing spots.

Just from looking at the fit. Not money.

He would fit perfect with our line.

A three man rotation would keep them fresh and benefit all. It may help with keeping them healthy over the season as well.

Been following this saga since the beginning and would really be happy if we can get this done.

no doubt his fit would really make our line complete .. we need that interior presence and another good rotational piece

A DL of Garrett - Richardson - McCoy - Oliver is NASTY to begin with

hmm seems like talks have heated up for us

He'll probably get less than he would have made with the Bucs.

Me too. I remember years back when we acquired Big Daddy Carl Harriston, the dogma was that he was washed up ... not so fast lol

Stupid question...We are running a 4-3 defense this year right?

And he has Baker in his court 2 boot.

Wilks ran a 4-3 last year despite having personnel better suited to the 3-4, so unless there's a cruel twist if irony, he'll use a 4-3 here as well. That's his preference and that's what our personnel is better suited for anyway.

Why McCoy and not Suh?

While I don't know what Dorsey and Kitchens think of Suh, I have read and heard that besides liking McCoy as a player, they value him very highly for his character and the positive presence and leadership he would bring to the locker room. Beyond performance, its a team culture thing.

Or why is Suh still a FA?

Multiple choice:

A), Team fit/personality
B), Holding out for a better deal
C), All of the above
D), Other

I don't think I could have said it better.

With the players we already have, we could rotate the DT's and keep McCoy fresh. I have been leery of saying the word playoffs but if we get McCoy and barring a critical injury... there is no reason we shouldn't make the playoffs and certainly win the division. He isn't the player he once was. However, he is still a good player. Especially, as a role player. A rotational guy.

The first part of this season is going to be a real challenge. Our defense is going to have to carry its share of the load until the offense gets it together. The offense is a new deal this year. Lots of new faces. The line lost a really great guard.

TB cut McCoy and signed Suh. Interesting move. It'd be funny if they just swap teams.

Excellent point. We already have more than a few huge egos in the building. Having a calm character guy who is also a good player could help keep the ship on course. Player vs player I'd choose Suh, but taking everything into account I'd take McCoy every time.

T.B signed Suh? Wow, didn't see that coming, Hope it works out for them.

Makes sense to me.

Very curious to hear how much Suh is getting.

McCoy's performance has been consistent. He has always been considered a leader and good guy.

I find it interesting that they would pay Suh and not McCoy. That would indicate he no longer wished to be there.

This deal for McCoy is going to happen soon wherever he goes.

They had to get rid of McCoy so they could sign their draft picks.

OK, I guess I don't understand how all of these numbers fit together. Bucs only had $13.5 mil in cap room. Projected cap room needed to sign their draft class is $10.3 mil. So they release McCoy and "save" $12.5 mil. Does that create an additional $12.5 in cap room so that they now have $26 mil? About $15.7 mil to pay Suh presumably something less than the total remaining cap amount?

Source, Spotrac

Was this a Trump rally?

Cavs parade?

McCoy's tweet from 2016, admiring the turnout for the Cav's championship parade. Several have resurrected it saying the turnout for a Brown's Super Bowl win would dwarf it.

Are you listening Gerald?

Humor?

McCoy was due $13 million so it would make sense if Suh signed for a good deal less than that.

Free beer fridge unlocked after the Jets win?

Browns Superbowl, and the city shuts down for a week, for a city wide tailgate. For a week before the game.

j/c:

I hope we sign him!

No, that was for Hue's jump in the lake.

I agree, I like Suh, but I do get the team culture thing as mentioned above.

In the early days of the AFL I liked both the Raiders and KC because they had some nasty players.

Maybe it is a character flaw in me, but I like my D to be edge skaters. Not out and out dirty, but maybe just enough to rattle the other team.

Kind of like pitching. I don't want throwing at the head, but keeping it between the shoulders and knee is fine in my book. Today, batters don't even try to get out of the way. They stand there and get hit, then get mad because they got hit.

Suh lollygagged quite a bit last season for the Rams and then turned it on in the playoffs.

I disagree. The Cavs broke the cities curse, that's a huge deal. Plus, the parade for the Cavs was late June. The weather was amazing to be downtown all day. While the Browns are a bigger deal than the Cavs, do you really think more people will show up for the parade in early February? Assuming it snows, that would cut the turnout by half.

I'd enjoy finding out though.

If the Browns win the Super Bowl, I'm driving in from Toledo and getting a room overnight to be at that parade. I routinely avoid going to Cleveland from the end of October to March.

The lake effect makes Northeast Ohio, otherworldly and it only 130 miles from where I live.

No, they are going to watch Sashi's podcast.

If the Browns won the Superbowl, I would not be at the parade. I'd be in Cle partying for the week before the Superbowl. Then fly to where ever it is and go to the game. And then go home.

That's my fantasy and I'm sticking to it.

I agree w/you guys. I don't know if we can even describe the scene if the Browns ever won the Super Bowl.

When the Cavs won I smoked a blunt on a firetruck at Superior and 18th. If the Browns ever won a super bowl, I might just climb terminal tower with a flask of absinthe in my mouth. I can't imagine it. Forget the parade, the night of is where the real party is at.

I would guarantee it.

I think more would show if the Indians won a world series.

Cleveland is a football town first and foremost. The scene would be insane.

The problem is parades in Cleveland, in February probably suck.

When we go to the Superbowl, I will probably go to Cleveland. I am sure they will have a watch party at the stadium. Hopefully season ticket holders can sit in their seats.

Shameful optimism. I would sit through it or risk it.

I wasn’t making a statement, i was asking a question .... i was curious as to why it seems everyone wants McCoy a lot more than Suh ... i have no opinion on the matter other than i don’t like Suh but if he helps us win i don’t care about my feelings towards the dude ...



I used to love those games when i was kid growing up .... man were they nasty and always great games .... that was back in a time when there was a total of 1 game a week on ... *LOL* ...

I’m with U ... i’m heading To C-town for game weekend and definitely for the game and when we win a few days after that ...

\

Yeah,, not that long ago,,, in fact, I think it was the week before we played the Jets last year..... That actually may have been the turning point....

As I've read but not seen, he freelances too much...takes plays off...so-so lockerroom guy...maybe a slightly better player but not as valued when taken as a whole. FWIW.

Thanks to u and everyone else for their replies ...

FYI ...


GERALD MCCOY
DL, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

FOX Indianapolis' Mike Chappell reports the Colts have a "level on interest" in free agent DT Gerald McCoy.

RELATED: Indianapolis Colts
SOURCE: FOX Indianapolis
May 22, 2019, 10:54 AM ET

Free agent defensive tackle Gerald McCoy is “intrigued” by the Browns and could make a visit to Cleveland, Mary Kay Cabot of cleveland.com reports.

The Browns have expressed interest in McCoy, making contact with his representation, according to Cabot. Browns offensive coordinator Todd Monken, who spent the previous three seasons in Tampa with McCoy, said Wednesday that Browns General Manager John Dorsey has asked about McCoy.

“I think a lot of Gerald,’’ Monken said. “He was an outstanding football player for us and he’s had a tremendous career. I like Gerald a lot.’’

The Buccaneers released McCoy on Monday, declining to pay the $13 million they owed him for 2019, and it didn’t take long for several teams to begin checking out the six-time Pro Bowler.

Reports have New England and Indianapolis also as being interested in McCoy, and McCoy is expected to begin lining up visits soon.

If McCoy ends up going elsewhere, Browns defensive end Myles Garrett said they are “good with what we have.”

This sounds very good.

I don't think he leaves when he comes to visit without a deal.

Frickin NE .....

Now good luck, get er done KJ ...

GERALD MCCOY
DL, UNSIGNED FREE AGENT

ESPN's Dianna Russini reports the Bengals have interest in free agent DT Gerald McCoy.

The Colts and Browns have also been linked to McCoy. There was never going to be a shortage of interest in McCoy, but his landing spot will come down to money. Similar to Ndamukong Suh, McCoy should settle for a one-year deal.

RELATED: Cincinnati Bengals
SOURCE: Dianna Russini on Twitter
May 22, 2019, 6:06 PM ET

at the bungles chances ....

unless they choose to throw A LOT more money at him

I don't think at this point in McCoy's career that money is the deciding factor. I can't see any team offering an amount of money that trumps a legitimate playoff shot. I can see the Patriots and Colts being large players.

From everything we have heard...the split up between the Buc's and McCoy was mutual. For the Buc's it was about money. So you might ask...if it wasn't about money for McCoy...why didn't he restructure. Well that possibility does exist. But I am more inclined to think he did not restructure because he knows he is running out of time, and he wants to taste the playoffs. He wants to play a part in playoff wins.

I think his decision comes down to 3 or 4 Teams. The Colts, Patriots, Cowboys, and us. Personally, I think he is the best FIT here. But we may not be the most ATTRACTIVE. The Patriots are the Patriots and he will have a legitimate chance at a Super Bowl...tough to pass up...The Colts are priming for a HUGE run and can pay the most. The Cowboys have more money than the Patriots and have a Playoff caliber team. While we on the other hand... have a Playoff History that shows a single losing trip in the past 2 decades. And while we have a lot of talent, it is "new" talent and it has yet to be seen if it can all come together. It is promising, but still a gamble that the other's are not.

HOWEVER, we have one thing that the other teams do not...The other teams need McCoy to be the player he was. The Browns only need him to be the player he is right now. The Browns do not need him to be the alpha or #1 DT on the Team. They don't need him to be the guy he was 5 years ago. We don't need him on the field for 90% of the snaps...We have the luxury of being able to put him in a rotation that could possibly keep him strong and make him more productive than the he would be on the other teams and also more productive than has the past couple of years (in which he was no slouch). We have a DLine that could take away double teams and open things up for him.

If he cares about production and a shot at the Playoffs...I think we are his team...He will be good anywhere he goes...But I think he would have a better year in Cleveland. JMO

You point the finger at others always claiming they don't let it go...but its ok for your agenda posting...smh what a hypocrite. don't go crying now on me being a bully, Its there and its just smacked me in the face...no he can't be saying this cause according to him its OTHERS who keep with their agenda posting on this subject matter.

On to McCoy.

He brings leadership to the locker room. A good person to have in the Positional meeting and mapping out Game plans.

Yes his better days are behind him but what we get is a less reps but quality reps as we keep him fresh. This would be a PLAYOFF MOVE as in those One and Done games - he can go all out and be a difference maker in those games.

This move if made is all about the Playoffs!

jmho

I wonder if the team order is in regards to the general "level of interest"?

Vers didn't start it.

He even quoted jfan's post. I was simply showing how dumb all of this is.

That doesn't matter. He's on a roll.

Did we sign McCoy, yet?

Nope! I keep looking here and cleveland.com and so far? Nothing. I'm surprised.

Breer usually has good information so I believe him when he says we're legitimate suitors for him.

However, this line makes me nervous:

"have a QB on a rookie deal"

Yes, we do, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I can help but think multi-year deal when seeing that-- as in it's the reason why we should do it. If so, I hope it's not too crazy.

Perhaps so. I read it differently as to mean that we have plenty of cap space not having to allocate 20-30 mil to a veteran QB...

The Browns are in a pretty unique situation due to how much cap space was rolled over from past years.

The Browns have the 4th most cap space in the league while simultaneously also having the highest active number in the league. Meaning the Browns have the highest combined cap hit in 2019, despite Baker being on a rookie deal. https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Salary cap can be rolled over from year to year so whatever is spent now is money that can't be spent later. Just something to keep in mind for someone like McCoy-- if he wants too much for too long then let someone else break the bank. We'll be fine with Richardson, Ogunjobi, and our depth guys. Of course, if McCoy would come here on a fair deal then that'd be ok too.

Might be reading too much into it, but I take the fact he is visiting us first, and letting other teams know it, as a good thing. I am hoping he gets the deal when he visits, and that is that.

If we do not get him, I do not want him in Baltimore.

do a hard sell and don't let him leave. Or talk to Garrett. I get MG being loyal, but he should just shut up about personnel. Like not wanting us to trade for Mack or draft chubb because he thought we were good with what we had...we werent. Mccoy next to Richardson would shut down run games. We need that.

What a weird thing. We are at the top of the list for a veteran player who wants to win.

Getting McCoy, as many have said, who be icing on the cake. Having a three man rotation of Ogunjobi, Richardson, and McCoy would allow all three players to stay fresh without losing any production.

NOOOOOOOoooooo ... not the rats ... i don’t want a repeat of the Earl Tomas disappointment .. it was bad enough not getting him but losing him to the rats just made it worse ....

I really want this guy but if we do lose him ... other than NE or Indi there’s not a worse spot around ...

Dang ... i hope he wants to win and as others have pointed out the fact he scheduled us first is a sign this is where he wants to be and we’ll have a true shot at working something out with him without any other visits ....

Damm ... if we get this guy .... barring injuries, it might not even be fair .... *L* ...

My first thought upon reading Ravens on the short list and then mention of Bengals is that he wants to come here, but he still wants to get PAID and his camp is dangling those notions out there to plant the negative possibility of him going to a division rival to soften our edge a little.

LOVE that thinking ... nice noodle usage dawg ... .... it gives me a sliver more hope and is 100% LOGICAL and makes perfect sense ....

If he does happen to sign with one of those two ... well then your just being mean ... *L* ...

I’ve never said this before ... not even about my boy VG .... THE TIME IS NOW ...

WE GOTTA GET THIS GUY ...

Talk about the cherry on top of putting yourself in position for a SB run ....

LETS GOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo ....

Browns GM John Dorsey says free-agent Gerald McCoy will visit Friday


By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal/Ohio.com

Posted May 23, 2019 at 4:24 PM
Updated May 23, 2019 at 4:24 PM

CLEVELAND — The Browns have entered full courtship mode with free-agent defensive tackle Gerald McCoy.

General Manager John Dorsey said McCoy will visit the Browns on Friday.

“It’s a chance for us to kind of get a chance to meet each other one on one and let’s find out who Gerald is,” Dorsey said Thursday in Public Square during a fan tailgate celebrating Cleveland’s selection as the host of the 2021 NFL Draft.

“It also gives Gerald a chance to see who the Cleveland Browns are and what direction we’re headed.”

McCoy is a six-time Pro Bowl selection whom the Tampa Bay Buccaneers released Monday because they didn’t want to pay him the $13 million he would have been owed in 2019.

Dorsey still believes McCoy, 31, has something left in the tank.

“With regards to his ability to play the game of football, he can still play,” Dorsey said.

https://www.ohio.com/article/20190523/SPORTS/190529014

Further confirmation:

Lot of arrows pointed our way.

I doubt he leaves after the visit other than to get his stuff.

Hope you are correct, Bonefish. One year show me?

Being first on the list is to our advantage in regards to signing preference. The questions is....how much will he want and for how long?

Edit: Which is synonymous with any FA but I think its perhaps more relevant based on age, expected usage, and perceived value by both sides

I like that he is coming here first. Dorsey is a can do guy. I'm sure when he sees the facility and if he gets to talk to guys like Richardson and hopefully Randall, it will be an easy sell.

He could extend his career with a situation like we have for him.Good rotation and a good chance to make an impact. He is 31, I would bank on it that he wouldn't mind getting some plays off at this point in his career. I also think he is smart enough to understand that by adding him, the playoff picture gets a little more in focus.

Him, Larry, and Richardson could make some history. He could add that to his legacy. How would you block our Dline with the studs we will have at every position, the DBs will be licking their chops, knowing that the pressure up front is going to lead to rushed decisions. Plus the upgrade in run defense would be fantastic.

Can I bring the dog to the Island? He likes beer, just a little heads up..LOL

Sometimes I have to pinch myself to believe the talent on this team.

All dogs welcome on the Island. And dawgs.

He's got a Browns jersey.

What Cap said ...

Were ANIMAL friendly anyhow .... all animals welcome ..... but how do u not let a dog on Paridise Island when dawgs are native to the land ... tab’s was lonely for decades, all he had was the animals ... *LOL* ....

Great point on getting to the facility ... this train is moving so frickin fast ... talk about the cherry on top ... i really wish i didnt know he was coming tomorrow ... i’m Gonna be so bummed (only for the second it takes me to refocus on MG, OBI, Shell and Vern across the DL and dreams of elves and SB’s start dancing in my head ...

Man ... IS THIS FUN OR WHAT????

I been out of my mind crazy with optimism since Bake through the fatal pick against the Rats ... and this has all ready blown my expectations completely out of the water ...

Hunt/OBJ to the O ...
Richardson and Vernon for the DL not to mention Williams somehow falling to us in the 2nd ... dude may have a major flaw but he was a gift in rnd 2 if he can cover 80% as well as they say he can ....

Dammit .... i need to calm down again .... *L* ...

bone if we don’t sign hm i may never forgive u bro .... I hope u didn’t just jinx it ... *L* ...

Man ... can u imagine dawg? .... ummmm ...

IMO and i’m pretty sure if your not right there with me i know your pretty close .... IMO we have more talent right now than anyone in the league .... IMO its not really close right now .. if we sign this guy .... WOW .... barring injury ... talent wise it won’t even be fair ... they still have to gel as a team and Freddie quite frankly just needs to be Freddie IMO and we got a real shot bro ...

Talent doesn’t always dictate ... but it sure does increase the odds ...

Oh i forgot ....

Come on stars, please stay aligned ...

j/c:



I don't get it.....Did his team of choice take tomorrow off work for an extra long Memorial Day Weekend?

The source could also be his agent trying to drive up the price.

I just read the blurb from one of the “experts” on my site and it said that MCoy is interested in them but he was not on the dudes list of teams interested in McCoy .... that was the 2nd time i read that ....

It almost sounds like for some strange reason McCoy has made them a favorite over us as he’s the only one mentioning them .... that fits right into what Purp says about using them as leverage ....

Any clue what ties McCoy might have to the Rats? ... if they are really where he wants to land there’s gotta be some type of connection cause were clearly a much more talented team than them today ... we have a better shot of winning and i believe significantly more cap space ....

Suh got like 9.5 with incentives to take to 10.

Something close or a two year at $16 the second year an option non guaranteed.

Sure, that's ideal for us.

Or they could have just scheduled him after the Browns did. If I'm McCoy, my list is 1) Saints 2) Pats 3) Browns/Colts 4) Bengals

Good. We'll keep our fingers crossed. It's not imperative that we sign him but he has talent and we can use him. He would definitely help.

Billick....It's May 23rd, not March 13th.

I agree and disagree. At this point he doesn't want to go to a bad team for a lot of money, but at this point in his career, he can choose where he signs, and he is old enough he wants to pad the wallet as much as he can.

Heading here first gives us a shot to keep him and him not going anywhere else. It can also gives him his lever.

I respected Sashi when we pulled the offer once it was clear Schwartz was using us to seek a better deal elsewhere. I would do the same. I would offer McCoy my best offer up front, tell him and agent it is the best offer we can make, and if you leave town, the offer is off the table in two days.

Don't come back in 4 days ready to sign because then it looks like we were ready to overpay. Come back to us at the end to see if we can pay you a nickel more.

No. Sometimes being first is the starting point. Being the last meeting is where we want to be.

j/c:

I still say the Browns and the Colts make the most sense for McCoy.

Todd Monkin has had three years with McCoy. He spoke highly of him.

One would think that there has to be some form of friendship or respect between them.

That could come into play. McCoy and his agents and the others he trusts will look at the whole picture and make a decision they feel is best for him. McCoy himself will want to feel comfortable within the team.

The visit will either sell or will not.

I wonder if McCoy is looking at a situation where he doesn't have to play 700+ snaps again next season, but where he could play maybe 500-600 snaps, and have a bigger impact?

Man, just thinking about an interior rotation of Richardson, Ogunjobi, and McCoy puts a huge smile on my face. I just hope that we don't have problems with whichever player loses out on a starting spot.

Good post.........but, remember this: No single unit rotates personnel more than the defensive line. It really doesn't matter too much who starts. It's about the distribution of snaps.

Another factor will be Wilks.

They will discuss their defense and how they envision the fit with McCoy.

My perception of Gerald based upon his reputation as a player and teammate is; a prideful man who has shown commitment to team and community.

If he likes our culture and how he sees himself fitting in; he will go with us.

I agree, but I see the Colts as similar to us in that regard.

I really don't see the Saints or the Pats as big options like some are claiming unless McCoy doesn't care much about his salary. If that is the case, those two teams would be huge players. I just think it's unwise to discount money.

Once he gets in Dorsey's office it will be over. As someone on Twitter put it.

JMO, but I think that TB set the bidding or there about for McCoy, with the Suh signing.

You have to think that his agent is going to use that for leverage.

Yup, and that's a bargain compared to what his salary would have been if we had traded for him.


If we get McCoy, Madden is going to have to change their cheat codes.

In their ultimate team mode (trading card game, comprising of both modern players and legends), the Browns already have a sick team (95 overall using all Browns) I never thought I'd be playing Madden well until the following summer, but here I am, making people rage quit by using Otto Graham and chucking it deep to OBJ. I'm sure the next Madden is going to be so fun for us Browns fans.

I thought Dorsey said he's coming in today.

I suppose we'll know by the end of the day if we have him. If he leaves with no contract, the chance of us signing him are slim to none going forward.

The Suh deal set the price.

It will be near depending on years.

He will get his price that's a given. Dorsey will have to be close after that it is how he likes us

I'm assuming he'll ask a tick above Suh ... and probably push for two years

Offer 1 yr, 15 million... and a chance to win the Lombardi trophy... He won't leave.

I'm pretty sure I'm prepared for a world, in which the entire Ravens organization no longer exists!

From the mind of Smokey and the Bandit, " Billick, do the letters - - mean anything to you?

We could have traded for him at, essentially, 1 year, $13 million. (since his contract was completely non-guaranteed at the point he was being shopped)

I suspect that we'll probably offer something near what we signed Sheldon Richardson for in that it would be a 3 year deal that would, essentially, be a 2 year deal, if we wanted, and with slightly lower averages and guarantees. (since he is a couple of years younger)

I'm guessing he'll get 8 mil a year for two years.

if he leaves without a deal I think we don't have a shot. Hopefully he is blown away by the staff and facility

31 is still young enough, I think for DT, McCoy has been solid throughout so obviously I'd think he's still a good player. These Browns don't pass on real players.

Dorsey doesn't pass on real players, McCoy would fit in nice, I just figure GUESS/HOPE he's already on the team just probably working the details out.

Glad they didn't have to give up a Running Back, in trade. -

Wow. That's kinda amazing just to think about!

another follow up stat would be nice to know how those seasons turned out for those 5 teams

Weren't the Giants that killed NE perfect season in the Super Bowl one of those teams? If they weren't they should have been, that line was scary good.

Would be interesting trivia to name the other 4 teams.

Joe Thomas might be a world class podcaster and a new NFL commentator, but "Joe Thomas confidently said..." can only bring me dread after his tenure here. Obviously this doesn't have anything to do with him, but previous regimes and I don't just mean tweedle dee and tweedle dumb 4.0

I'm guessing ...

1971 Minnesota Vikings: Carl Eller, Gary Larsen, Jim Marshall, Alan Page
1985 Chicago Bears: Richard Dent, Dan Hampton, Steve McMichael, William Perry
1976 Pittsburgh Steelers: "Mean" Joe Greene, L.C. Greenwood, Ernie Holmes, Dwight White
1991 Philadelphia Eagles: Jerome Brown, Mike Pitts, Clyde Simmons, Reggie White

Good guess ...

The rams had a line back in the day ... the fearsome foresome ...

Deacon Jones .... Merlin Olsen ... Rosey Greer .... ?

Thats one of the two that popped into my head ... the purple people eaters witch is one u covered was the other ....

Excellent guess.

Lamar Lundy

so JT was absolutely and completely wrong...none of those teams even went to the superbowl let alone win except the 74 team

surprised we haven't heard anything. Not sure if that's good or bad

Gotta love that patented Joe Thomas confidence.

eesh, I was way off!

This was expected.

From the report in the PD it sounds encouraging.

But nothing will happen till next week.

So maybe Wednesday or Thursday we will know.

It is wise to make more than one visit.

Gerald McCoy’s visit with the Browns went great and he could sign here after visiting Ravens Tuesday, source says

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Gerald McCoy’s visit with the Browns went great and they tried to sign him before he left town today, but he’ll honor a commitment to visit the Ravens on Tuesday, a league source said.

Talks between the Browns and McCoy’s agent, Ben Dogra, continue, and McCoy could end up signing with the Browns next week depending on how his trip to Baltimore goes.

McCoy will return to Florida to spend Memorial Day weekend with his family before heading to Baltimore on Tuesday. He could take one more visit after that, but the Browns and Ravens are currently the frontrunners.


Read more at:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05...s-continue.html

Just because we have the cap room, does not necesarily mean we should spend it. I’d only sign him on the cheap, in a limited role.

We will have players to sign in coming years. Correct me if I’m wrong, but one of the reasons JD is no longer in KC, is is due to cap management?

If he signs a short term deal (two years or less) then his salary will have little to do with being able to sign guys in the future.

Dorsey left Kansas City in a major cap bind, yes.

Allbright is correct. It is his best course.

Yeah, there was no way in hell he was signing today. Unless we gave him such a crazy offer he wouldn't even look at other teams. And if we were to give him a crazy offer, we would've just traded for him. I do think that the longer his free agency goes on, the worse our chances get. If he's not signed in 1.5-2 weeks, I just don't see him signing with us.

Like I said, being the last meeting is the best meeting.


That said, we can still be the last meeting.

On to Baltimore for him ... we'll see how he likes it there (and their offer)

I do worry about John's spending habits. All of this is great but I would rather be in position a few years down the road to keep Baker and Myles.


I am not saying we won't be able to do that, I am just hoping someone is keeping a eye on the contract logistics.

Agents have a way of sharing what offer is on the table. It's always easy to offer more money, or more benefits, or whatever.

If we 100% want to sign him, the best meeting to be would be last. But I like being first, especially with Dorsey's straight shooting style. I think this allows us to set the market, remain firm in our offer, and not rely too much on McCoy, who at least I view as a luxury signing. I think that Larry O provides us more than enough as a contingency plan at the spot and will serve more than capable.

As long as most of the guaranteed money is off the books after 2020 we should be fine.

I do think there could be players released due to cap pressure that would upgrade our D-line depth. McCoy is not absolutely the only option but I do think he's the best option

Does anyone know, what happens when the CBA runs out after the 2020 season? Does everyone's rollover cap go away?

Maybe that is playing into Dorsey's plan? Might as well use up all the rollover cap we have this year and next before we lose it...I don't know, just something that I was thinking about.

No

The most important meeting is the first, then you make it the only meeting, thereby making it the last. If you do not close the deal during the first meeting, the chances of making making the deal go wayyyyyy down. Get the deal while you got them in house, once they are out the door, you are out of luck.

This is years of sales experience talking. If they go someplace else, after seeing what you have to offer, then you have a 10% chance of winning the sale. We let him out the door.. He's more than likely a Raven now.

This is the kind of post I truly enjoy reading.
Thanks.

I hope we sign him but I hope even more he doesn't go to the Ravens. That D is tough enough as is. He'd be good in a rotation. Keep everyone as fresh as possible. But if he goes elsewhere we will still have a very good line. If not McCoy then hopefully a really good veteran shakes loose in camp. There were many young D linemen taken in the draft, so hopefully, that will help us down the road... We shall see. I always liked the teams that had devastating D lines. The Fearsome Foursome, the Purple People Eaters, Doomsday... etc. Not that the NFL allows that kind of intimidation anymore, but it would be nice to see us get some great line play. At least to the extent that it's permitted in this watered-down NFL.

What's his history with cap space on previous teams?

Anybody know?

I would 100% agree with you if we were playing baseball instead of football. Instead we have to keep in mind the cap which will affect our ability to keep our other players long term. If he was wanted that badly, then we'd have simply traded for him instead of negotiating over 5 mil.

Dorsey’s cap record with the Chiefs is not great but that’s not why he was fired. It was more of a personality conflict with Andy Reid.

Agreed. I believe our chances of signing him are remote. I hope I'm wrong...

Dang ... oh well ... guess the stars just weren’t aligned right and if they don’t align on the first date u usually don’t get a 2nd ...

I’ve got to question Mr. McCoy’s intelligence or his opinion of just how good he is ...

No one with a brain can’t see how much more talented we are than them and have a way way way better shot at winning then they do ... so if he really cares about winning why there? ... i could see NE or KC or SD or Indi or the Jags ...

I believe he has a brain so therefore he must think he’s good enough to close the talent gap between the teams all by his bad self ... ... ain’t no one that good ....

Or taking Purp’s theory to the next level he’s using the weekend to see if we will meet the contract he wants over the 3 day weekend to keep him from going to see the rats ...

IF he makes to B-more we need to hope he’s the rare exception to this rule ...

I don't think its as grim an outlook as some of you. According to MKC, McCoy apparently feels honor-bound to fulfill a commitment to visit the Ravens because of his relationship with their D-Line coach, Joe Cullen, who coached him at Tampa - so it might just be a courtesy/duty visit. But she (MKC) also reports that he left here impressed and enthused with the possibilities of being a part of a stellar D-Line. She writes that while he has an $11M offer in hand from a non-contender (Bengals?), he's willing to sign here for less to be with a contender.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05...s-continue.html

Paying McCoy and Atkins 27+ million a year is so on brand for the Bengals that I'm dying of laughter.

Aren't the Ravens playing a base 3-4? While no team stays in their base 100% of the time, I have to wonder if McCoy wants to play a 3-4 DE base.

j/c

When I buy a big-ticket item, I shop around. Often enough I go back to the first place if their deal is the best, but I believe the smart shopper makes sure it's the best.

Nobody knows how it will end ultimately, but I agree with you. McCoy has been in TB for 9 seasons never sniffed Free Agency and he wants to see what his options are. His only point of reference is Tampa Bay that isn't sufficient in these circumstances. I want him in Cleveland as much as anybody but from his point of view, he needs to know the extent of his options in order to make his best decision. That's what I would do. I suspect most of us would if we had an important decision to make and multiple choices.