New Browns linebacker Reggie Ragland optimistic about his fit in Cleveland, unclear if he’ll play against Bengals
Published: Dec. 10, 2022, 6:01 a.m.
By Ashley Bastock, cleveland.com BEREA, Ohio -- It’s unclear if newest Browns linebacker Reggie Ragland will make his debut against the Cincinnati Bengals this weekend, but he’ll be ready whenever the team makes that call.
“Ah s---, if they need me to now, I could go,” Ragland said on Friday. “I’ve been playing football a long time, so it’s really just mainly finding where you fit at in the scheme and understanding where the safeties and everything come down from. Once you know that aspect of it you really can just play ball and play fast. Whenever they call me I’m going to be ready.”
Ragland is entering a room that’s been decimated by injuries this season, but Cleveland wants to make sure he has a decent understanding of defensive coordinator Joe Woods’ scheme before sending him out there.
When coach Kevin Stefanski was asked about Ragland’s availability for the big division game this weekend, it seemed like the Browns are leaning more on the cautious side when it comes to his acclimation.
“He is probably still acclimating,” Stefanski said “This is a new system for him. Excited about where he is. He is very, very smart. He has done a nice job throughout this week, but want to make sure that he is continuing to understand our defense, our terminology and those type of things.”
Ragland is in his seventh NFL season. Originally a second-round pick by Buffalo in 2016, he’s appeared in 75 career games with 47 starts. He has registered 276 tackles, 3.5 sacks, two fumble recoveries, one forced fumble and one interception throughout his career. He appeared in all 17 games with the Giants in 2021 and joined the Raiders’ practice squad this year before being signed by the Browns.
The Browns linebackers have taken a hit at the middle position in particular this season, with three different players suffering season-ending injuries at a spot that has unideally become a revolving door. Sione Takitaki was just the latest loss at the spot after transitioning to playing MIKE from SAM due to the injuries that came before him.
Oh a reminder of Taki Taki being out, I' will miss me some, another chance, to watch Taki Taki play, because he makes plays and hits hard. A run stopper. or ^ ... I meant. I will miss me some Taki Taki. frown. I will miss another chance to get to see Sione Taki Taki play well against the Bengals. frown. And the talk about his newly signed replacement?? > is reminding me he will be out. frown.
originally post by Rish from the locked thread. Baker Mayfield is a bad QB who performs when expectations are low. No one expected him to play well or win the game. That's when Baker excels, ...
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Baker, is a @uarterback I wasn't even paying attention to and can't get the Thursday night games anyway but at the watercooler at work, people came in and said "Baker got it done last night" He did it again I said, did he do good or bad, they said he had a ninety eight yard drive, the longest drive in the NFL this year, I didn't even know he was on the Rams, or had been waived and signed.
Baker, is a @b, not a bad one, imo, who just won ANOTHER game, and who knows what's next, and like I said before, is the current winningest starting @b in Cleveland Browns stadium history, which he took from Ben Rothlisburger, who else was going to do that??? Watson?? Pfff. who knows.
No one expected Baker to play well??? I kind of would have expected Baker to play well in the game, And win it, IF I had even known he were on that team or playing in their game, even against any NFL team I can think of, yeah even the one that would come to your mind as unbeatable, because that is what I think of Baker as a player, He can beat anybody because his CEILING is unlimited, and if he gets on a roll, for the right 4 game stretch, then a team, in fact any NFL team could win the Whole freaking Super Bowl, with Baker??
Not WITH Baker, but BECAUSE of Baker, that is what I think and expect of and from Baker Mayfield, and why wouldn't I, I mean, he's had a very public career as a football player, there has been a lot to see.
Label me a Fabulous Baker Boy? sure, right on, Woo, worth another watch next week. Who knows what is next.
New Browns linebacker Reggie Ragland optimistic about his fit in Cleveland, unclear if he’ll play against Bengals
Published: Dec. 10, 2022, 6:01 a.m.
By Ashley Bastock, cleveland.com BEREA, Ohio -- It’s unclear if newest Browns linebacker Reggie Ragland will make his debut against the Cincinnati Bengals this weekend, but he’ll be ready whenever the team makes that call.
“Ah s---, if they need me to now, I could go,” Ragland said on Friday. “I’ve been playing football a long time, so it’s really just mainly finding where you fit at in the scheme and understanding where the safeties and everything come down from. Once you know that aspect of it you really can just play ball and play fast. Whenever they call me I’m going to be ready.”
Ragland is entering a room that’s been decimated by injuries this season, but Cleveland wants to make sure he has a decent understanding of defensive coordinator Joe Woods’ scheme before sending him out there.
When coach Kevin Stefanski was asked about Ragland’s availability for the big division game this weekend, it seemed like the Browns are leaning more on the cautious side when it comes to his acclimation.
“He is probably still acclimating,” Stefanski said “This is a new system for him. Excited about where he is. He is very, very smart. He has done a nice job throughout this week, but want to make sure that he is continuing to understand our defense, our terminology and those type of things.”
Ragland is in his seventh NFL season. Originally a second-round pick by Buffalo in 2016, he’s appeared in 75 career games with 47 starts. He has registered 276 tackles, 3.5 sacks, two fumble recoveries, one forced fumble and one interception throughout his career. He appeared in all 17 games with the Giants in 2021 and joined the Raiders’ practice squad this year before being signed by the Browns.
The Browns linebackers have taken a hit at the middle position in particular this season, with three different players suffering season-ending injuries at a spot that has unideally become a revolving door. Sione Takitaki was just the latest loss at the spot after transitioning to playing MIKE from SAM due to the injuries that came before him.
Sean McVay managed to get a washed-up, back-up QB ready to play a primetime game in approx 48 hours...but we can't get a veteran, backup LB - one of only two we prefer to play - ready after a week?
Report: Cameron Jordan, Saints Fined $550K for Allegedly Faking Injury vs. Buccaneers
The NFL has fined the New Orleans Saints $550,000 after defensive end Cameron Jordan allegedly faked an injury in Monday's game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, per Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk.
The Saints were fined $350,000, while Jordan ($50,000), defensive line coach Ryan Nielsen ($50,000) and head coach Dennis Allen ($100,000) picked up individual fines.
Jordan discussed the punishment Saturday on Twitter:
The incident took place midway through the fourth quarter as the Buccaneers were hurrying to the line of scrimmage on a 4th-and-10. Jordan went down with an injury, forcing a stoppage, and the Bucs then punted instead of trying to convert the fourth down.
According to Florio, cameras captured Jordan "receiving direction" from the sideline to go down with an injury.
Tampa Bay won 17-16 on a last-second touchdown pass by Tom Brady.
The NFL released a memo last Friday stating it would fine players, coaches and teams for faking injuries, calling them "deliberate actions to delay the game."
In Sunday's game against the Kansas City Chiefs, Cincinnati Bengals defensive back Jessie Bates III seemingly faked an injury to help his team complete a substitution. Bates was also fined $50,000 on Saturday, per Tom Pelissero of NFL Network.
On Monday, several fans called out Jordan for apparently doing the same:
It's clear the league office felt the same and levied the fine against the player, the coaching staff and the organization.
It could be difficult for the NFL to prove injuries are not genuine, but the league is taking steps to reduce these attempts to get a competitive advantage.
I think it was the same thing with Jones as well. Add in all the guys that don't play that when forced into action play better than the guys in front of them and well....this staff is the worst.
There will be so much optimism going into next year and Stefanski will be below average, he'll get fired at the end of the year, and it will be another wasted year.
Given the way the rules of the NFL so much favor the offenses I kind of favor the defenses' right to stop play, to allow a substitution. I mean with the fake bumps that DON'T even drive a grown man, a grown man, to the turf, when the defender LET's up still being called roughing the passer and with all of the penalties resulting in automatic Ist downs and none of them resulting in an automatic change of possession, or automaticly force a punt, or even automatic 4th down,
then this is the least they can do to accommodate defenses or there is not even the illusion of fair play.
BUT, it is deception, which is wrong, but then the league is also wrong, to not let proper substitutions happen.
I remember when Ragland was highly thought of in college. Classic, old-style, run-stuffing LBer. I think injuries have really hurt his career, plus most teams are looking for smaller, faster LBers who can be used more in the passing game.
The absence of Taki is going to hurt IMO. He has been a solid guy for us and is one of our more reliable defenders
I agree...unlike our defensive "Leaders" (meaning leaders on payday) his play on the filed talks much better than the others' constant bloviating and self-promotion in press conferences.
I remember when Ragland was highly thought of in college. Classic, old-style, run-stuffing LBer. I think injuries have really hurt his career, plus most teams are looking for smaller, faster LBers who can be used more in the passing game.
Didn't I read that the Browns defense had an issue with stopping "the run"..?
Something about the Browns defense ranking near the bottom of the NFL in yards allowed or stopping the run...something like that.
Maybe the Browns could use a "run stuffing" LB like Ragland and maybe they will get lucky and the aging Ragland can give us a few decent games...who knows...
I'm pretty sure he wasn't signed to be a player but still something I found unusual...
Boxer Jake Paul signs contract with Browns, shares video with exec. JW Johnson
While we are not sure what the contract is for, boxer Jake Paul shared this video that includes Cleveland Browns owner/executive J.W. Johnson about signing with the team. Paul has wanted to play football for the team and shared a short clip with Johnson holding up Paul's team jersey.
WATCH: Cleveland Browns Sign Boxer Jake Paul to a Contract
In today's weird world, the Cleveland Browns have signed entertainer and boxer Jake Paul to a contract.
In an interesting development on the day before Christmas Eve, the Cleveland Browns have signed media personality and boxer Jake Paul to a contract. Yes, you read that right.
Paul took to Twitter to show himself in a Browns' uniform. The team's executive vice president JW Johnson made the call with Paul to inform him.
This obviously isn't anything from a football standpoint, Paul is not going to be suiting up. Looking at it as a marketing technique from both sides, as Paul also hails from Cleveland.
Well maybe there is some genius master marketing that none of us are yet aware of. Or maybe this is the Browns being the Browns. It's very odd. Maybe it's a nothing burger.
Sign a one day contract, retire a Cleveland Brown, donate a bunch of money to charity?
That's about the only feasible scenario I can comes up with -- and it still stinks of "amateur".
Weird as hell for a professional football team.
That "press conference" with J-Dubs and Jake Paul may be one of the most cringeworthy videos I have ever witnessed. I was getting embarrassed for them.
My guess is that J-Dubs is trying to appeal to the younger Browns fan that is shifting their attention and dollars towards the Cavs and Guardians. He knows the older generation isn't going anywhere no matter how bad the team is but is losing the younger crowd. J-Dubs hatches brilliant plan to marry a popular and local social media influencer with the Browns brand to connect with the younger Browns fan.
He proceeds to concoct an embarrassingly bad roll out with fake press conference, dumb and awkward dialogue, no doubt thinking he hit a HR because nobody on the Browns social media team had it in them to tell J-Dubs this a horrible idea that will certainly miss the mark, which it does.
The following day, naturally, Jake Paul posts a video of himself boxing a 2 ft tall penis.
I can't think of anything more Browns than that to close out another losing season!
Jake Paul is a buffoon and anyone that would willing associate with him are just desperate. I love how they say "boxer" yet dude hasn't fought anyone thats an actual boxer let alone within 15 years of his age.
Milk, what are the future plans for J-Dubs in the Browns organization. I thought I read where he is in line to become the main decision maker. That can't be correct, can it?
I was and still am grateful for what Baker did while he wore a Brown's jersey. I didn't like the Watson acquisition - not because of anything to do with Baker, but because Watson had 66+ massage therapists over a span of 2 years and 26 of them accused him of sexual misconduct and he has since been labelled a sexual predator by the only judge to have heard all the actions (Showing sexual predatory behavior is the calling him a sexual predator in my book). Based on any prior metric or the eye test - Watson in HOU was a top QB, Baker flashed but was inconsistent as a Brown - the injury didn't help but ultimately KS and BM clashed and we moved on to what on paper is a superior player at the position.
I'll personally keep half an eye on how Baker plays and maybe watch games that don't clash with the Browns. I missed this Rams game and any mention of how well BM played - and good for him on the performance. But while I get that a poster on the board wants to ram every bad performance by Baker down our throats and mention Baker as often as possible (and then turn around and insult others and claim 'the baker boys' keep bringing him up).... and I get maybe you want to return the favor? But I am ready for Baker not to be a topic on this board. When Baker plays well or badly, I don't need to come here to see & read about it. Discussions about Stefanski - his offense - his ability as a HC ... none of that needs to imply or involve Baker. Bad (low %) play calls on 4th downs, a tendency to become pass happy, being too cute and thinking he is smarter than other NFL coaches, having the team come out flat after a bye in vital games , possibly losing the players in the locker room, an under prepared team and bad Defensive performances - none of those things, which have shown themselves throughout his time as HC, have anything to do with BM - - - and while the poster that always wants to mention Baker does so as a deflection from Stefanski and what this team has done in 2022, it doesn't mean we have to let him. jmo
You lie - but we know that. It's okay. You continue to name call, in fact it's getting worse. Not okay.
When your posts warrant responding to because they are good football posts, because they are driven by agendas or simply misleading - I'll continue to reply to them. It's a Browns message board.
Yea...I read that earlier..the guy didn't follow the "desired procedure" for telling the Browns that he was sick..so the Stefanski and Berry brought the HAMMER down on Myles...obviously trying to make an example of him.
mac, w/all due respect...............folks have been criticizing Stefanski for not being tough enough. It's to the point where it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I'm pretty sure this Noah Weiskopf kid is some 19 year old Journalism major at Ohio State. For some reason I don't think he would be the one with an inside scoop.
I'm pretty sure this Noah Weiskopf kid is some 19 year old Journalism major at Ohio State. For some reason I don't think he would be the one with an inside scoop.
All he did was quote Mary Kay, but sometimes I wonder if she has any ability to get an inside scoop also.
I'll knock MKC on a number of things but Myles Garrett has a pretty long list of things showcasing immaturity and general lack of awareness where I'm going to believe the Browns' angle.
Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, it's an odd thing about MKC. A lot of people give her no credibility for the most part. That is until she says something they like or agree with.
I'll knock MKC on a number of things but Myles Garrett has a pretty long list of things showcasing immaturity and general lack of awareness where I'm going to believe the Browns' angle.
And isn't it odd how people pick and choose which players they point that out about and which ones they don't? The only thing I find odd about the story is it would seem to me that it would need to be more serious than what's being reported to not start him. I have no idea if that's correct or not but it just seems odd to me.
I'm pretty sure this Noah Weiskopf kid is some 19 year old Journalism major at Ohio State. For some reason I don't think he would be the one with an inside scoop.
Pit..it's good to folks do a bit of research to see who these Twitter Teasers are and what kind of experience they have.
Some are just like this dude Weiskopf..young, taking classes in journalism or recently graduated and trying to build a reputation by repeating something they might have heard from another, more senior Browns source. Very similar to the case I cited last week where the Mueller dude did a journalistic "hatchet job" on the Browns backup center and used PFF as his source to backup his claim.
The Print Media is a mess because of the tactics being used by some of these Keyboard Warriors, looking to make a name for themselves. It never hurts to look up how much experience some of these young, so called journalists have.
None of us know what's going on. Personally I will run with Lawrence Garrett before I put faith in MKC. But that's me and I don't like or respect or believe most of what MKC writes, to me she is worse than Grossi or any other beat writer for the Browns.
Cardinals DE J.J. Watt announces retirement following conclusion of 2022 NFL season
Cardinals defensive end J.J. Watt announced Tuesday that he will retire at the end of the 2022 season.
"My heart is filled with nothing but love and gratitude," tweeted Watt, who said Sunday's loss to the Buccaneers was his last ever NFL home game. "It's been an absolute honor and a pleasure."
A no-brainer for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Watt dominated out of the gate after becoming a first-round pick by Houston in 2011. In his first five seasons, the Wisconsin product tallied 74.5 sacks, 15 forced fumbles, an INT, and 299 tackles while earning three Defensive Player of the Year awards. His 74.5 sacks over that span of time are the second-most since 1982, behind only Hall of Famer Reggie White.
Watt had 18.5 more sacks, 90 more QB hits and 51 more tackles for loss than any other player in the NFL in a four-season span from 2012-2015.
Watt was a relentless force in Houston, unblockable at the point of attack and able to manhandle offensive linemen. His pick-six of Andy Dalton in the 2011 playoffs remains one of the greatest plays in Texans history.
At his peak, Watt single-handedly wrecked game plans and outright controlled the game, a mystifying accomplishment for a defensive lineman. Watt's level of early-career dominance was unmatched. He even garnered MVP votes, finishing second for the award in 2014, an extreme rarity for defensive players.
Watt will retire a three-time DPOY winner with five first-team All-Pro honors, five Pro Bowls. He also led the NFL in sacks twice. He's a shoo-in for a gold jacket in five years (Watt is eligible for the Hall in 2028), as one of three players in NFL history to win DPOY three times -- Lawrence Taylor and Aaron Donald.
Watt is the only player since 1982 with 20-plus sacks in multiple seasons -- 20.5 in 2012 and 2014. He is one of three players since 1982 with 100-plus sacks and six-plus total TDs in his career (also HOF Jason Taylor, Julius Peppers). Watt is one of two players with multiple receiving TDs and pick-six's in his career in the Super Bowl era (also HOF Deion Sanders).
Watt reached 100 career sacks in his 120th career game (Week 9, 2020), the fourth-fewest games to 100 career sacks since 1982 (White, DeMarcus Ware and Bruce Smith).
Injuries curtailed his production down the stretch of his career, as he played a full-slate just twice in the past seven seasons. But when he was on the field, Watt made his presence felt. In his second season in Arizona, Watt has compiled 9.5 sacks, 33 tackles (14 for loss) and six passes defensed in 14 games of what will be his final campaign.
With two games remaining in his legendary career, Watt has 111.5 total sacks, 580 tackles, 27 forced fumbles, 69 passes defensed and two regular-season INTs. The Arizona Cardinals' final two games of the year are at the Atlanta Falcons and the San Francisco 49ers.
As incredible as his on-field performance was during his 12-year career, Watt was just as impactful off the field. His work raising money for the Houston community in the wake of Hurricane Harvey was unparalleled. For his work, Watt was named the NFL's Walter Payton Man of the Year in 2017, the highest honor in the NFL.
I was and still am grateful for what Baker did while he wore a Brown's jersey. I didn't like the Watson acquisition - not because of anything to do with Baker, but because Watson had 66+ massage therapists over a span of 2 years and 26 of them accused him of sexual misconduct and he has since been labelled a sexual predator by the only judge to have heard all the actions (Showing sexual predatory behavior is the calling him a sexual predator in my book). Based on any prior metric or the eye test - Watson in HOU was a top QB, Baker flashed but was inconsistent as a Brown - the injury didn't help but ultimately KS and BM clashed and we moved on to what on paper is a superior player at the position.
I'll personally keep half an eye on how Baker plays and maybe watch games that don't clash with the Browns. I missed this Rams game and any mention of how well BM played - and good for him on the performance. But while I get that a poster on the board wants to ram every bad performance by Baker down our throats and mention Baker as often as possible (and then turn around and insult others and claim 'the baker boys' keep bringing him up).... and I get maybe you want to return the favor? But I am ready for Baker not to be a topic on this board. When Baker plays well or badly, I don't need to come here to see & read about it. Discussions about Stefanski - his offense - his ability as a HC ... none of that needs to imply or involve Baker. Bad (low %) play calls on 4th downs, a tendency to become pass happy, being too cute and thinking he is smarter than other NFL coaches, having the team come out flat after a bye in vital games , possibly losing the players in the locker room, an under prepared team and bad Defensive performances - none of those things, which have shown themselves throughout his time as HC, have anything to do with BM - - - and while the poster that always wants to mention Baker does so as a deflection from Stefanski and what this team has done in 2022, it doesn't mean we have to let him. jmo
Posts Nazi. Don't become that guy; this is a PLAYER NEWS thread. BM is a player and one many of us still very much like. I don't care if Vers calls me a fabulous Baker Boyz or whatever other childish crap he spews in his endless drivel. The "one poster" everyone refers to constantly is VERS. I don't know why you guys don't just call him out as the cancer he is on this board... Oh, y'all have been doing that for weeks, and all it does is feed the troll. Smh. So thanks for your opinion that I didn't even need to ask for, but I'll tend my posts; you tend yours.
And trust me, when you take him to task and expose him for who he really is, he shuts down the incessant attacks and pretends you are on ignore. That's why he doesn't get under my skin anymore; because I can see his true colors and know who he really is... I will give him props for having good knowledge of many football topics, but he is not a football GURU. And he also cannot dictate who I am allowed to like or not like, what I am allowed to post or not post, and what topics we discuss or don't discuss. Everyone is just a fan posting their feelings about the team/players/coaches/FO on this fan board, and he's no different. Vers is very much one of us in that respect and doesn't deserve our ire for posting what he feels. At the same time, we all just post opinions, rumors, news, and speculation. And none of us, Vers and I included, have a crystal ball regarding future football outcomes or what this team will do from game to game. So everyone's posts, without exception, are jaded or biased by their personal feelings and perception of any particular topic. And there are no football gurus here that I can see, so maybe we all just need to focus on being fans of the game and stop worrying about what others might think, say, or post and just let everyone express their fandom in their own way.
I'm pretty sure this Noah Weiskopf kid is some 19 year old Journalism major at Ohio State. For some reason I don't think he would be the one with an inside scoop.
He references MKC; if you click thru on Twitter, you will see where she said those things. It doesn't matter who he is in this instance.
I'll knock MKC on a number of things but Myles Garrett has a pretty long list of things showcasing immaturity and general lack of awareness where I'm going to believe the Browns' angle.
Oh, FFS, here it comes on, Myles, now. Smh. This whole org and fanbase are in shambles. It's like Brown's world lost its Fn mind after OBJ's Daddy's post, and it's all been downhill since. Are we going to run Myles out on a rail next? I know how hard it is to be a Browns fan but bashing your All-Star DE for what amounts to his effort of reporting an illness is BS. Ski is a wuss and an abject failure at managing our most talented players. Ever notice how true talent seems to regress under him? In Myles's case, that could be directly tied to Woods, but at the end of the day, it all falls on Ski. This season is over; another wasted year as a Browns fan; why pull this crap with players at this point? Especially our most talented players. Myles shows up on game day most of the time, and his production is limited more by our opponents' double and triple teaming him than by lack of effort by a long shot. He is probably the most complete player on this team, definitely one of our best; why screw with him over minutia in a season that died weeks ago? The incomprehensible bungling of the Browns FO and Staff is what SKI should be benching instead of making players out to be scapegoats. I'm about done with the whole damn lot of them. Idiots.
The same guys who yell at me to not talk about Baker keep bringing Baker into threads. I guess it's cool if you are complimentary of Baker and blame others for his issues, but it's a travesty if one points out the truths such as teams have not even wanted him. One freaking team claimed him on waivers. ONE! Pffftttt...
The same guys who yell at me to not talk about Baker keep bringing Baker into threads. I guess it's cool if you are complimentary of Baker and blame others for his issues, but it's a travesty if one points out the truths such as teams have not even wanted him. One freaking team claimed him on waivers. ONE! Pffftttt...
You just can't help yourself, living in your head everyday.
This is the the player news thread. If there is any place to talk about any and all NFL players, this thread is it. And in case you missed it, McVay wanted him. McVay says he's good. You say he isn't. Which one do you think I'm going to listen to?
Rams' Sean McVay Praises QB Baker Mayfield: 'He Has Been Outstanding'
Los Angeles Rams head coach Sean McVay heaped praise upon quarterback Baker Mayfield, who has been outstanding in his brief time as LA's starter.
The Baker Mayfield experiment continues to be one of this season's lone bright spots in LA.
While it is a disappointment to see the Los Angeles Rams eliminated from the playoffs at 5-10, this is actually Sean McVay’s first losing season since he took over as head coach in 2017.
Injuries have really derailed the defending Super Bowl champions' season. The Rams' offense hasn’t looked the same since they lost quarterback Matthew Stafford and wide receiver Cooper Kupp for the season.
s compelling as it was when the Rams claimed Mayfield off waivers, expectations were mitigated for a quarterback who had played so inconsistently throughout his career.
Mayfield was the No. 1 pick in the 2018 NFL Draft but after discouraging stints in Cleveland and Carolina, it seemed unlikely he would be the answer to McVay’s offense. However, his performance on Sunday against the Broncos shows he is still capable of being a starter in the NFL.
Despite the Rams missing their top three receivers, Mayfield outplayed Russell Wilson, who the Broncos paid $242 million and traded multiple first-round picks for, by a wide margin in the Rams’ 51-14 blowout win over the Denver Broncos.
McVay had said how highly he thought of Mayfield before arriving in Los Angeles, and through three games, he’s exceeded the coach’s expectations. He’s led the Rams to two wins and thrown four touchdown passes with only one interception, playing at a high level in an offense he’s still learning.
As might be expected, McVay has been impressed.
“I think probably better (than expected), but I always – you guys know, I was always a fan of him and I think he’s played really well,” McVay said after the game. “You got to think about too, what he’s done to come in here and be able to play around a lot of guys too that haven’t been here, and to be able to lead the charge today, just an incredible effort. He’s been outstanding."
Mayfield is just a rental player until Stafford is back to full strength. Although, if he does not land a starting gig somewhere else next season, perhaps his success with McVay warrants him a return to the Rams as a backup.
For now, Mayfield will prepare for a battle against the Los Angeles Chargers. The NFL flexed that game out of the primetime slot next Sunday in favor of a game between the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers. Rams vs. Chargers will now be an afternoon game, 1:25 PM PST at SoFi Stadium.
It's amazing the difference a good HC can make in a QB with a good physical skill set. Or are you refusing to be educated by an actual SB winning NFL HC?
It looks like Mayfield is having fun again. But let's keep in mind the combined record Of the 3 teams he faced so far as a Ram is 17 and 28. The Raiders Packers and Broncos are going Nowhere. But he has a chance to be the opening Day Starter for the Rams in 2023
I have several relatives that live in LA,,, I'm told that Baker is loved there and some are even thinking he's the guy to put in place of Stafford when Stafford decides to hang it up.
Raiders bench Derek Carr with playoffs all but lost, $33M injury guarantee looming
The Las Vegas Raiders have benched quarterback Derek Carr with two games remaining in the regular season.
Head coach Josh McDaniels announced the news on Wednesday.
Jarrett Stidham will start in his place on Sunday against the San Francisco 49ers and presumably in next week's regular season finale against the Kansas City Chiefs. The Raiders are still mathematically alive for the postseason at 6-9, but last week's loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers all but eliminated them from reasonable contention.
Meanwhile, Carr is due $33 million next season that's fully guaranteed in case of injury. He'd also be guaranteed $7.5 million in 2024 in case of injury, The Athletic's Vic Tarfur reports. According to the report, the Raiders front office met on consecutive nights this week to discuss the course of action regarding Carr's injury guarantee.
Carr has been the Raiders starter for nine seasons since they drafted him in the second round of the 2014 draft. He's missed just two regular season games in his career. He missed both of those games because of injury.
The decision raises doubts about Carr's future with the franchise.
It looks like Mayfield is having fun again. But let's keep in mind the combined record Of the 3 teams he faced so far as a Ram is 17 and 28. The Raiders Packers and Broncos are going Nowhere. But he has a chance to be the opening Day Starter for the Rams in 2023
I'll let steve be the cap guy on this...BUT...Stafford's cap hit for next year is OUTRAGEOUS.
It looks like Mayfield is having fun again. But let's keep in mind the combined record Of the 3 teams he faced so far as a Ram is 17 and 28. The Raiders Packers and Broncos are going Nowhere. But he has a chance to be the opening Day Starter for the Rams in 2023
I'll let steve be the cap guy on this...BUT...Stafford's cap hit for next year is OUTRAGEOUS.
Thanks WSU! Stafford's cap hit isn't ridiculous next year being it's set at 1.5M salary with an 18.5M prorated bonus for a total of 20M cap hit for 2023. Another positive is that Stafford's guaranteed money ends next year with the 1.5M salary. Now the bad part - Stafford is under contract with the Rams for another 4-years. Even though his guaranteed money will run out after 2023 (which is only 1.5M), the Rams have been playing the game of moving salaries into prorated bonuses to lower their immediate cap only to have to account for it later. Because of that type of financial mumble jumble, the Rams will get cap hits of 18.5M per year for the next 4-years whether Stafford is on the team or not. They also moved 10M of his contract into roster bonuses in year 4 and 5 of 5M each. Here's the bottom-line, if Stafford decided to retire in February due to his concussions, the Rams have to absorb 74M in prorated bonuses plus the 1.5M guarantee for a total of 75.5M dead cap to work around the next 4-years. In other words - CAP HELL! Now they would save his planned salary for each year which is still at 85.5M but not the prorated bonuses they have already moved.
Just a note - if the Browns restructure Watson again this off season, he will be sitting on over 18M in prorated bonuses each year of his remaining contract with 9M in 1 additional voided year.
It looks like Mayfield is having fun again. But let's keep in mind the combined record Of the 3 teams he faced so far as a Ram is 17 and 28. The Raiders Packers and Broncos are going Nowhere. But he has a chance to be the opening Day Starter for the Rams in 2023
There's no talking sense into the mayfield clan. He's on his third team in one year, just about nobody wanted him, he's had a couple of nice games and now all of a sudden he's great. A guy on the verge of being out of the NFL is all of a sudden great. Oy vey.
Who does Baker play for next year? He asked for a trade when he heard we wanted Watson, who was obviously going to start when eligible to do so. He asked for a trade when told he was going to be a backup [3rd string, behind the legendary duo of Darnold and Walker] in Carolina. Will he accept being a backup next year behind Stafford? Would the Rams want that turd in the locker room stirring up crap?
Now, Carr is available and the draft class is far, far better [at least in the minds of the guys who evaluate these things] than last year. Daniel Jones has done enough to win that job. Hurts has established himself as an MVP candidate. Goff is having a very good year in Detroit. Gino Smith is playing very well in Seattle. Russ sucks, but Denver is paying him huge money.
Where does he go? New Orleans maybe? Washington? Would McDaniels want him in Vegas? Baker doesn't fit the Patriot mold at all. Houston didn't want him in the trade for Watson. Every team in the league passed on Baker when he went on waivers other than the Rams? I didn't get to see the Denver game, but I read that he played extremely well. He did have the comeback win in his first game w/the Rams, but they scored what...16 or 17 for the game? He wasn't good in game 2. He sucked worse than any qb in the league w/Carolina. He sucked last year and teams didn't want any part of trading for him. So, where does he go.
Before his fan club goes off.......like Pit says..........it's a Players News thread, right? Also, y'all brought him up. So please deal w/an alternative opinion.
Anyways..........the McDaniels/Carr story is pretty amazing. I hate to admit it, but I wanted McDaniels or Dan Campbell over Stefanski as HC. Campbell is actually doing a nice job, but McDaniels has sucked ass and he was my #1 choice. I was wrong. He is actually making Carr inactive for this upcoming game. WTH?!? He's a really great OC, but he looks like a total dufus as a HC.
Tom Brady was overlooked 198 times...Kurt Warner was un-drafted...the Rams signed Baker but not the cancer that is OBJ. None of that means squat...just like who did or didn't put in a waiver claim on Baker. The Rams did...end of relevance.
For accuracy purposes..........the Rams did sign OBJ last year and won the Super Bowl w/him. He was on his way to being the MVP of that game before he got hurt. He is not signed this year because he is still hurt. OBJ has excelled everywhere he has been w/multiple qbs. The only one who held him back was Baker Mayfield.The Rams are not winning a Super Bowl w/Baker Mayfield this year.
I think Carr will have options. The Colts make sense.
There are other teams who really need QBs. Houston, Vegas, New Orleans, Carolina, Washington, maybe the Jets, and Tampa Bay [if Brady goes somewhere else or retires.] Houston has a high pick and there are some good qbs in the draft. The other teams would have to trade up. Carr is probably going to get a ton of attention. He might be a really good fit in Washington, too. Maybe New Orleans because they are a dangerous team if healthy.
For accuracy purposes..........the Rams did sign OBJ last year and won the Super Bowl w/him. He was on his way to being the MVP of that game before he got hurt. He is not signed this year because he is still hurt. OBJ has excelled everywhere he has been w/multiple qbs. The only one who held him back was Baker Mayfield.The Rams are not winning a Super Bowl w/Baker Mayfield this year.
Hilarious.
You asked GM a direct question the other day about coaching.... Why don't you ask him directly if obj was running the wrong routes and free lancing? He's the only guy on this site with any way to know. I think I know why you don't ask or pay attention to his answer. Along with not knowing where to line up and quitting on his routes. Sure, the QB held him back.
And yes, obj was having a great game in the SB. The rest of his time with the Rams as a #2 opposite Cooper Kupp his stats were within spitting distance of his stats with the Browns that year.
Anyways..........the McDaniels/Carr story is pretty amazing. I hate to admit it, but I wanted McDaniels or Dan Campbell over Stefanski as HC. Campbell is actually doing a nice job, but McDaniels has sucked ass and he was my #1 choice. I was wrong. He is actually making Carr inactive for this upcoming game. WTH?!? He's a really great OC, but he looks like a total dufus as a HC.
So let me get this straight from you Vers:
The Raiders Offense in year 1 with McDaniel's calling the plays are scoring 23.2 PPG through 15 weeks The Browns Offense in year 3 with Stefanski calling the plays are scoring 21.5 PPG through 15 weeks The Raiders have a 6-9 record through 15 weeks The Browns have a 6-9 record through 15 weeks Carr has a passer rating of 86.3 through 15 weeks with McDaniels Brissett has a passer rating of 88.9 through 15 weeks with Stefanski Watson has a passer rating of 69.3 through 15 weeks with Stefanski The Raiders defense is allowing 23.3 PPG The Browns defense is allowing 22.9 PPG (blamed on the DC) The Raiders run defense is allowing 116.6 yard per game Ranked 15th in run defense The Browns run defense is allowing 134.3 yards per game Ranked 25th in run defense (Blamed on the DC)
If McDaniels has sucked ass and looks like a total dufus as a HC in year 1, what adjectives are you going to use for Stefanski's year 3 performance that has been in most cases even worse than what McDaniels has posted? Inquiring minds just want to know!
I'll play. I think Baker will take a deal to be the apparent heir and backup to Stafford for the Rams and sit like Rodgers did until Stafford is out of gas or the team is ready to move on to Baker. McVay will talk about coaching him up and fixing the crap coaching his two previous teams, helping him repair his reputation, and giving him a chance to gell with teammates and absorb everything McVay Rams style; all of this is cool, but the real kicker will be dangling a chance to start in the near future and a QB1 payday when it happens. I expect this, but if a losing team like Houston, Denver, or Las Vegas comes calling with a QB1 contract, he will probably take that. I don't look for that to happen, and I really don't think it's in his best interests.
I honestly think McVay feels like he hit the lotto and will do whatever he can to make Baker Stafford's backup/replacement (if Stafford hangs it up). And honestly, I think the next couple of games will show us how much emphasis McVay will put on keeping him. Honestly, as crazy as the NFL gets in the offseason, I could see him anywhere from on the street to QB1 on a legit contender.
You need a paid membership to PFF to access the QB grades, so you'll just have to take my word for it.
This is a classic example of not telling the whole story. Week 16, Mayfield was #1 and Watson #26 in Total QBR. Week 15, Mayfield was #30 and Watson #18 in Total QBR. Week 14, Mayfield was #11 and Watson #12 in Total QBR. In Week 13, Watson was #25 in Total QBR and Mayfield didn't play. Though it's true that Watson sat a self-imposed 700 days without live competition, Mayfield has stepped into a situation with no knowledge of the playbook, zero reps with his skilled players, his top 3 WR's sitting out on IR, and the most injured OL in the NFL in 2022 while Watson has had the top OL in football, #1 RB, best route running receiver and a preseason and a month of practice with the team before he ever stepped on the field. Now Watson will most likely improve to the point where he will ascend to a level higher than Mayfield because he's the better athlete but to spew Mayfield hatred when he's actually performing better than our 230M QB with just as much if not more reasons for a bad performance is just showcasing your hatred for the player. It's amazing what a difference it makes for a player when having a good HC compared to a poor one.
Let's not forget what's really at stake here. Our Stefanski led Browns must win both of their final two games just to equal last year's dismal record achieved with an injured QB after Week 2 and the team is light years away from 2020. You can keep bringing up Mayfield and trying to showcase how bad he's played but we have a pile of crap in our own back yard that's worse than anything Baker left on the field while playing for Stefanski. The record proves that fact.This league is still about W/L and Stefanski is failing with that metric. Guess what, Mayfield isn't here and has had no part in 2022's crappy season for the Browns.
Well "the whole story" would be long and probably a bit tedious. The cliff notes version is that
- Act 1 - for the Panthers who were coached by a really bad HC in Rhule, who was already on the hot seat, Baker played very badly. I watched about 3 of the games and he was worse in a Panthers uniform than any time as a Brown, and while the team was badly coached and Rhule was fired, Baker had opportunities to be "ok" - but made bad reads, took needless sacks and missed open receivers. Panthers immediately looked better without him and when Wilks took over.
-Act 2 - for the Rams, he came in and played after signing with the team two days prior. I think it was a national Thursday night game and he led the team to a win scoring 14 in the 4th Q over a fairly bad Raiders team. Second game he was bad vs GB on a Monday night. 3rd game he had a 124.7 QB rating and played very well against another bad team that just fired their HC.
It will be interesting to see how the final 2 games go, but even if he plays well it won't be a big enough sample size to say with a good HC Baker is good. Looking at how bad Baker was under Kitchens and Rhule - if Baker is better than average for his final two Ram's games I'd say we learned that Baker is bad under a bad HC and isn't good enough or the type of QB that could overcome that situation . . . But having seen both good and bad BM here in CLE, I'd wait and need a sustained number of games at an improved level before wanting to say Baker is a good QB with a good HC. And if he reverts to type and plays badly these last two games maybe he will struggle to find a place on a roster next year. I think what he's done so far for the Rams has helped him find a back up roll next year - beyond that idk.
Steve - to your point. There's totally separate issues at play. BM and how he has or has not played for other teams. What the Cleveland Browns achieved in 2022. Personally what the Browns have achieved and the trajectory they are on is far more important, but there will be plenty of time for discussion after the season.
It's widely assumed that Brady won't be returning to Tampa Bay next year. Does the Carr benching give us a hint that Brady could reunite w/McDaniels in Vegas?
In my mind, Carr to either Indy, Washington, or New Orleans makes a lot of sense.
Houston will grab either Young or Stroud. Another team will probably trade up to #2 to get the loser of the Young/Stroud battle. Right now, the Bears are sitting at second. Teams like Atlanta and Indy are going to have high draft choices themselves and will be an attractive trade partner. I don't know if either of those teams have other assets to offer and how their cap numbers stand.
The QB market for this off-season is going to be very interesting.
For the record..........I am NOT the one who brought up the "whole story." Folks were posting some numbers about Baker and I posted some in return. Hey, "it's a message board."
Another team that could be in the market for a qb is Miami. They are loaded on offense. Tua has played well this year and was in the MVP race until recently. However, three concussions in one year is concerning. They would probably not be able to trade up for a qb because they have given up picks for Hill and Chubb, but they could be players for current NFL QBs.
For the record..........I am NOT the one who brought up the "whole story." Folks were posting some numbers about Baker and I posted some in return. Hey, "it's a message board."
No-one said you did bring up the whole story. Yes it's a message board. My last post was a neutral as can be, not sure why you felt the need to post this. Do you disagree that Baker was bad for Rhule and CLT? Do you disagree that Baker has played better for the Rams but after 3 games, we need to see more of the same to say he's 'good' under a good HC?
This is how steve began his post after quoting the links I posted:
Quote
This is a classic example of not telling the whole story.
I don't see a football point. I don't see a post that is offensive or name calls that you needed to defend yourself from. I don't see a post that insinuates that you said something you didn't. I see a posters saying there's more to what you posted. I see me trying to summarize this season for our ex-QB. It's how conversations work.
I did not lose a damn thing. Hell, I'm not competing. Others posted stats. It was cool. I posted stats and it was not cool. You made a claim that no one said anything about "telling the whole story." I provided a quote that showed where it was said. You moved the goal posts. You are here to fight.
For the record..........I am NOT the one who brought up the "whole story." Folks were posting some numbers about Baker and I posted some in return. Hey, "it's a message board."
No-one said you did bring up the whole story.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
This is how steve began his post after quoting the links I posted:
Quote
This is a classic example of not telling the whole story.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You made a claim that no one said anything about "telling the whole story." I provided a quote that showed where it was said. You moved the goal posts. You are here to fight.
If you read this text string maybe you will see this pattern of events: - you can plainly see that first you stated YOU were not the one who brought up 'the whole story' - I responded to say no-one said YOU brought up 'the whole story' - - You then change the claim to state I made a claim that "no one" said anything about 'the whole story"
This is 100% classic Vers and if I have to post 20 times in a day to highlight this sort of BS I will.
So YOU moved the goal posts. YOU are here to fight. You did absolutely lose. You lost any morsel of credibility you had left.
Huh? I gave the link for QBR. I was talking about PFF where you need to pay to see the QB rankings.
I notice you didn't post Watson's QBR.
It's 53.5 - but he's only played 4 games. But he's coming off a 2 year absence. But the C is injured. But we don't have a WR to take the top off the defense. But we don't have a fully healthy Conklin playing at his best. But we played a game in bad weather. . . . . .
I say those things in jest - some of them are valid, some of them are not, all of them have been mentioned in relation to how Watson has played. None of them were allowable for former players.
How about you all STFU and stop acting like 5 years olds?
You started it. No, YOU started it!
You're only here to fight. No, YOU'RE only here to fight!
Stop lying. I'm not lying, you're lying!
Stop acting like children. Go lay outside or something. FFS.
Why don't you stop always taking up for the agitator in chief? And don't deny that you do that and 100% enable him to be the agitator he is.
You might have a point about how threads get derailed ... but you NEVER call out the one poster who is at the heart of most of the issues. When you make a comment - like this - you ALWAYS respond to the people who are pointing out the BS Vers Spews.
When Vers spammed the board for a day calling me 'evil' did you say anything? No. When Vers spammed the board for over a week talking about my kids did you say anything? No. When Vers says one thing, then another, accuses others of the thing he just did - do you say anything? No.
As for the "Lying" "Liars" that is spammed across the board (and accepted by the moderators - why I do not know) - that'd be a Vers thing too that he has started and monopolized with others tired of the abuse responding in kind. Maybe if you had said something early on to Vers that might not have happened? idk.
Read carefully and slowly - you never reply and specifically respond to Vers. And personally when I was being called Evil, there was no "You All" - when my kids were mentioned in every thread for a week, there was no "You All"....
You write great football posts. When it comes to calling out the BS - you never reply to and talk directly to the one poster that starts most of it.
Vers left the board for a while - the bickering went down to an all time low (it was still there for sure but a fraction of what it was before) - he's back and the bickering is at an all time high. You chose to hit "reply" and address everyone but the root cause. You can say "You All" but it sure as hell doesn't read that way.
Once again, it's become a personality contest. I posted Baker's stats AFTER others posted Baker's stats. It's a different set of stats, but they are just stats. Tired of a few people telling others what they are allowed to post and not post. Then, the main perpetrator attacks others for not attacking another poster. Good God! Btw......Memphis is not my defender. Trust me on that one. So, leave him alone.
So how does watson's QBR stack up against Baker again?
I know your putting a dig on Vers. But as far as your question goes what are their career qb ratings average to stack them up against each other. In other words the whole picture.
I think we both know Tom Brady isn't the same QB today he was 10 years ago. Watson may never be the same QB he was in Houston. That's yet to be seen. Players have good seasons and bad seasons. Players face issues in their private lives that may greatly interfere in their on filed ability to perform. What a player did two years ago, three years ago and so on have nothing to do with how they are performing now.
We both know the NFL stands for "Not for long" if you don't continue to play on a high level.
You must have missed the parameters that were outlined. Vers gave Mayfield's QBR for "this season". I'm simply following the parameters that were posted and given. If you have decided to move the goal posts on that, that's your decision to make.
I wasn’t moving any goal post. And yes I missed the post you’re talking about ver’s parameters. Never the less, I asked what their average was for their career to get the complete picture. Ignoring the larger picture and focusing in on a few games isn’t even aiming for the goal post.
Maybe you should look at how some players have played in the past compared to how they're playing now. Then ask yourself if how they played in the past has any relevance to how they're playing now. Once you figure that out you can see how your question isn't really important. And remember as you consider that, Derrick Carr was just benched. Russell Wilson has looked like garbage all year and Matty Ice has crapped the bed.
I agree to some extent. The coaching and scheme they're put into does impact their play. Then again I think a lot of factors play a part in that. You also in this case have to factor in he hadn't played a game in 700 days. Nobody can say for sure whether or not he can ever be the same QB he was before either way. I'm certainly not predicting that he won't be but on the other hand I'm not willing to say he will be. The jury is far from being in on that.
Looks like you’re ignoring the bigger picture with R. Wilson also. Denver has had the most injuries this year of any team in the NFL and worked with only one original starter WR who was also questionable from time to time. Not to mention the most terrible play calling and coaching staff in the NFL …axed, faster than a Kitchens and staff. Just saying a stat like the NFL QBR over a few games doesn’t really say too much.
I think you need to remember that it wasn't me who asked strictly for QBR numbers and ignored every other factor in the equation. Things like multiple coaches and OC's with all different systems to learn in a short period of time. QB's playing injured. When people wish to focus on nothing but raw numbers without any other factors in mind that's how things end up. Russell Wilson isn't the only QB in this discussion with extenuating circumstances to consider.
How did Watson become part of the conversation? I saw a post or two about Baker. Some of his recent stats were posted. I made some sort of a comment about Baker being in the thread. I was informed it was a player news thread and it was totally appropriate. Thus, since it was appropriate, I post Baker's season stats instead of just a recent game or games. Somehow, Watson was brought into the picture. What does he have to do w/Baker's season stats? How did Watson have anything to do w/Baker's stats w/Carolina and LA? This is not just moving the goal posts, it's moving the entire field.
If someone wants to trash Watson by posting his QBR and PFF grades, please do so. I could care less. But Watson doesn't have a damn thing to do w/Baker's performance.
And Baker has nothing to do with the Stefanski led Browns sucking eggs worse than they have any year he's been here. I can open any thread and find a post of yours ragging on Mayfield, but a person has to look high and far to find any post from you showing disgust for the second year in a row a playoff caliber team finishing under .500. Baker hatred posts offers no opinion on the correction of a team that's going down the toilet faster than a floating turd. Not only that but the team currently has secured their position as the last place team in the AFC North with 2 weeks to go. You can spin it any way you like and continue beating up on a player long gone but the Browns are a last place team with the best OL in the NFL, #1 RB, #1 DE, top 5 CB, a #1 WR, and a 230M QB and they are the last place team in the AFC North and the 3rd worse team in the entire AFC. Whew, and you want to continue to talk about Baker - LOL.
Uhmmm.........I did not bring Baker up. Others did. Are you dictating who can comment on Baker and who can not? Who gave you that power?
As a forum member, I have the same power that you do so before questioning me, do a self-evaluation and recognize the number of times of you demanding Baker posts stop and your invitation to other forum members to leave the Browns forum. By the way - YOU ARE ALWAYS THE PERSON WHO BRINGS BAKER UP. Your hatred and Mayfield living in your head is well documented.
Baker's Cooking in LA | Kurt Warner Breaks Down the Game Tape | Baker Mayfield Los Angeles Rams
I know more than half of you don't care what Baker does, but Kurt Warner says he's still a starter and says some things that are pretty damning on Ski and Company.
Anyways..........the McDaniels/Carr story is pretty amazing. I hate to admit it, but I wanted McDaniels or Dan Campbell over Stefanski as HC. Campbell is actually doing a nice job, but McDaniels has sucked ass and he was my #1 choice. I was wrong. He is actually making Carr inactive for this upcoming game. WTH?!? He's a really great OC, but he looks like a total dufus as a HC.
So let me get this straight from you Vers:
The Raiders Offense in year 1 with McDaniel's calling the plays are scoring 23.2 PPG through 15 weeks The Browns Offense in year 3 with Stefanski calling the plays are scoring 21.5 PPG through 15 weeks The Raiders have a 6-9 record through 15 weeks The Browns have a 6-9 record through 15 weeks Carr has a passer rating of 86.3 through 15 weeks with McDaniels Brissett has a passer rating of 88.9 through 15 weeks with Stefanski Watson has a passer rating of 69.3 through 15 weeks with Stefanski The Raiders defense is allowing 23.3 PPG The Browns defense is allowing 22.9 PPG (blamed on the DC) The Raiders run defense is allowing 116.6 yard per game Ranked 15th in run defense The Browns run defense is allowing 134.3 yards per game Ranked 25th in run defense (Blamed on the DC)
If McDaniels has sucked ass and looks like a total dufus as a HC in year 1, what adjectives are you going to use for Stefanski's year 3 performance that has been in most cases even worse than what McDaniels has posted? Inquiring minds just want to know!
Baker's Cooking in LA | Kurt Warner Breaks Down the Game Tape | Baker Mayfield Los Angeles Rams
I know more than half of you don't care what Baker does, but Kurt Warner says he's still a starter and says some things that are pretty damning on Ski and Company.
Thanks for sharing - I watched last night and it's a great breakdown of what BM does well, the best I have seen.
You think Stefanski sucks. Fine w/me and I won't try to change your mind.
It was your post where you jumped out there with the bias opinion that McDaniels sucked ass and looks like a total dufus out there as a HC. I just posted the stat comparison that shows Stefanski equal or worse in his own HC numbers produced this year and asked for your adjectives to explain Stefanski's coaching resume in 2022. I mean, I'm ok with you voicing your biased opinion about McDaniels, I just think that if the biased opinion is good enough for McDaniels then an equal or more critical opinion should be warranted and expected from you for Stefanski's equally poor performance. JMHO, you shouldn't throw rocks if you live in a glass house.
A side note, I don't think Stefanski sucks. IMHO, he is incapable of being a HC and the continued regression of a team that's playoff caliber is unacceptable. Add to that fact that he has taken no responsibility at all for the defense poor showing or special teams just screams replacement immediately. A HC is responsible for all aspects of the team, not just the offense. The Browns need an actual HC to right the ship. Besides, according to your biased opinion on McDaniels when applied equally to Stefanski: Stefanski "has sucked ass and looks like a total dufus out there as a HC" in 2022.
See what happens when you actually try to talk football with him and have an actual point? He blames you for starting a fight and refuses to address it.
I took it that he didn't have much of an argument and took his ball and went home. When you call McDaniel's a dufus and then someone puts side by side meaningful stats McDaniels v Stefanski and Stefanski looks just as bad, what is your defense of KS going to be?
It's a lot like his accusation that I moved the goal posts and was looking to fight when I made a statement that no-one said Vers used a certain phrase ('the whole story") he then went on a tirade, quoted me and then claimed I had said "no-one" used that phraze. The black and white text was there to see what I said, Vers changed the argument in the space of 5 minutes and invented something I never said. It's a pattern of behavior we are all supposed to ignore apparently.
Tensions are strained in Baltimore between Lamar and the organization. The Ravens have a very tough decision to make this off-season. Is it a wise decision to fully commit to Lamar by giving him a better deal than the one Watson received?
It's a mess. I've said before -- I think the Ravens should tag him next year. I'm starting to get the impression that Lamar may not show up if they do.
On one hand, I've tipped my cap to the fact that they have let him 'be Lamar' and haven't tried to mold him into something he's not; on the other -- it reeks a little of 'chew him up, spit him out, and move on'. And now he's getting pretty chewed up with mounting injuries, and no contract seems a bit like 'spit him out'.
I think (could be wrong) that instead of an agent busting their hump to try to get a deal done, we now have his mother probably telling him he's been disrespected... and to settle for nothing less than 'Watson money'. I don't think that's happening. However, as a Browns fan, I will be very happy if it does.
Harbaugh doesn't do injured players any favors. Always seems like he's rushing some perceived timeline in his head. He started calling Lamar "week to week" straight out of the gate. He earlier implied Ronnie Stanley was slow-playing his injury. They rushed JK back, probably too early. Last year (I think?) he was talking about players making "tough decisions" when considering shutting it down and opting for surgery. Most coaches stick to the script... "we want what's best for Joe Blo" blah, blah, blah.
I say this because we both know how the media works. Media thinks coach is unhappy with player's progress so they go down a rabbit-hole. In Lamar's case that hole has gone as far as doctors outside the org saying he could play with a brace... and then fans and media saying "yeah, Flacco played with a brace, Lamar is selfish!" Not a good situation.
Lamar will miss this week, will he return (if able) to play in a playoff game? Try to improve on his 1-3 playoff record with all that rust? I think he's done for the season. I think the feeling amongst fans, and maybe some players, then becomes 'abandonment'.
I didn't know about Harbaugh's history of dealing w/injured players. That makes me wonder if his comments are more calculated rather than just speaking out of frustration. Dude has been in the NFL forever. He knows how things go down.
I think this is looking like a bad situation for both the Ravens and Lamar. Selfishly, I good w/that as a Browns fan.
At the time of injury, some said 1-3 weeks, most said it was more like 4-6. Harbaugh's demeanor with the media seemed to be "he'll be back any minute" lol.
I think the dude is old-school and definitely has "ALPHA" tattooed directly on his forehead. There are probably plenty of players that milk injuries, John's not having it. Sadly, we've reached a point (in society, really) where honest and forthright is frowned upon. Probably rightfully so, when we see how quickly the media can twist anything into a tornado. Think about Myles... he's been nothing but candid about everything going on this year. Candid and honest. After a while, we're all screaming "shut up!". Not because of the message, because of how it's twisted, and the perceived effect of the 'twist' on the locker room.
It reeks a little of 'chew him up, spit him out, and move on'. And now he's getting pretty chewed up with mounting injuries, and no contract seems a bit like 'spit him out'.
.
I think this 100%, I've thought this for some time. Last year when Huntley played so well I thought the divorce was a sure thing, maybe not with the way he has played this year. If you are an NFL team and you look at the history of phenom scrambling QB's (of which Lamar is as electric as any) - they have a shelf life and we've seen it play out this year. It doesn't matter how good they are at avoiding big hits, eventually all the niggly stuff catches up. Bottom line it's a business and chew em up and spit em out sort of applies in some form or another to all players regardless of how elite their talent is, once they get injured or stop performing at whatever level, they will be cut/gone.
Is it a wise decision to fully commit to Lamar by giving him a better deal than the one Watson received?
The Browns FO were the people to set the new bar for the QB market. You really should be asking them. Maybe that's exactly why the other NFL franchises weren't happy about it?
Just a suggestion. It would seem logical to address your question to the people who created the situation. But I can certainly understand why such a suggestion would upset you. And there wasn't anything unfriendly in my response to you. Once again you're just making crap up.
Is it a wise decision to fully commit to Lamar by giving him a better deal than the one Watson received?
The Browns FO were the people to set the new bar for the QB market. You really should be asking them. Maybe that's exactly why the other NFL franchises weren't happy about it?
This is one of the best things the Browns have ever done.
Is it a wise decision to fully commit to Lamar by giving him a better deal than the one Watson received?
The Browns FO were the people to set the new bar for the QB market. You really should be asking them. Maybe that's exactly why the other NFL franchises weren't happy about it?
This is one of the best things the Browns have ever done.
I totally agree. The Browns FO had the foresight to look into the future see what the markets are going to be for QB's and hurt both the Ravens and Bengals in the process. It was a great decision that by year 3 will start to look like a bargain $ wise.
This is one of the best things the Browns have ever done.
It could turn out that way. Or maybe not. I'm still not sure how that changes the fact that the Browns created an unprecedented situation with NFL QB contracts moving forward. Sometimes facts seem to incite certain people into saying nasty, untrue things. Not you per say.
He hates the Browns so much that he is actually upset that we hurt the Ravens.
More made up BS by the king of lies.
Yes, this is nothing but a lie plain and simple. Try to own it for a change. It puts all of the other 31 teams in an unprecedented situation involving future QB contract situations. The Ravens are only one example that is currently applicable. But your personal agenda has caused you to make up lies about it.
Care to tell me who has the word "Predator" in their sig?
Care to tell me who said they would never support the team again?
Care to tell me who started a thread about The Basement Bowl when a thread already existed about previewing the game?
Care to tell me who mocks the Browns daily?
Care to tell me who attacks Browns fans daily?
So, you will excuse me if I have come to the realization that you hate the Browns. Heck, you are knocking them for creating a favorable situation for the team because other teams are now going to have to pay their qbs more.
Care to tell me who has the word "Predator" in their sig?
Someone who is willing to be honest about the situation
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Care to tell me who said they would never support the team again?
Yet another lie. I said that I still support the team but that level of support does not reach what I know the word fan means. "Fanatic". Try again.
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Care to tell me who started a thread about The Basement Bowl when a thread already existed about previewing the game?
Care to tell me what's inaccurate about that description? It is the game that decides who will finish on the basement of the AFC North. Or is your claim that it isn't?
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Care to tell me who mocks the Browns daily?
I don't address figments of your imagination.
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Care to tell me who attacks Browns fans daily?
That's the way you always describe anyone who has a different viewpoint than your own or a dissenting point of view. Nobody takes that propaganda BS from you seriously anymore.
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So, you will excuse me if I have come to the realization that you hate the Browns..
Jacoby Brissett 'will cherish' his time in Cleveland
Cory Kinnan January 7, 2023 10:39 am ET
The 2022 season will conclude on Sunday against the Pittsburgh Steelers, and as rocky as it was for the Cleveland Browns there has been one solid and continuous bright spot: quarterback Jacoby Brissett. He knows his time in Cleveland is likely over, but Brissett has stated that he will cherish his time with the Browns.
Starting the first 11 games of the season, Brissett set a career-high pace across the board, led the Browns to a top-10 offense and to a record of 4-7 in his tenure. He spoke to the media yesterday and was emotional as his season comes to an end:
“It’s been awesome… It’s been nothing short of that. The highs and lows, ups and downs, the relationships, the things you get to experience in an NFL locker room and being able to start and play good football, it’s been a lot of fun. It’s something I for sure will cherish.”
Here are some other quotes from Brissett’s media availability as he soaks in his remaining time in Cleveland.
List An ode to Jacoby Brissett: His 5 best plays as the starting quarterback Browns Jacoby Brissett View 6 items "I feel like that holds more weight to me than wins or losses and things of that nature... Hopefully in the next couple days, I can get that answer if I was a good teammate or not." Browns Jacoby Brissett Browns QB Jacoby Brissett. Mandatory Credit: Ken Blaze-USA TODAY Sports
Everywhere Brissett has been, every locker room Brissett has had a locker in, one thing continues to ring true: he is the ultimate teammate. Whether he is throwing a lead block for Anthony Schwartz on a touchdown run, if he is gaming his teammates on the basketball court, or if he is just cracking jokes in the locker room, his personality is infectious.
As Brissett rattled off this quote to the media, running back D’Ernest Johnson interjected and yelled, “You’re a great teammate, bro.” Brissett then jokingly offered to buy Johnson’s dinner for his remarks.
A true leader in the locker room, the presence of Brissett will be hard to replace.
I asked #Browns QB Jacoby Brissett what he hopes to leave with the team if this is the end of his time in Cleveland.
He said he hopes he was a good teammate.
"Just trying to be a good person and be there for guys..."
What Brissett signed up for this season is not for everybody. Coming into his one-year deal with the Browns, Brissett knew his tenure as the starting quarterback would come to an end in the same season.
And he chose to be a part of this experience anyway.
Brissett can still be seen on the sidelines hyping up his teammates after a big play, his energy is infectious when he comes on the field for a short-yardage quarterback sneak. He is still the leader he was the first 11 games of the season, even if his role on the team is drastically different.
"I've learned a lot about myself and this game... I'm excited for what the future holds, but I'm excited I got to do this experience."
He has started full seasons for the Indianapolis Colts, he has spot started for the New England Patriots and Miami Dolphins as well. If someone said Brissett would pace himself into career-high numbers before the season started (if he had played a full-season sample size), I would not have believed that person.
The Browns have the word “work” posted all over their facility, as well as, “tough, smart, accountable.” Brissett has personified the mission of head coach Kevin Stefanski this season for the Browns both on and off the field.
He took his game to another level and now has put himself back in a position to make a lot of money this offseason.
"Who knows... This league is crazy, right? A lot of things have happened. I wouldn't be me if I were worried about that."
Brissett has not ruled out a return to Cleveland:
“Who knows… This league is crazy, right? A lot of things have happened. I wouldn’t be me if I were worried about that. Right now, at this point in my life, those things will happen if those things are meant to happen. I’ll be where I’m at.”
However, as there are a handful of quarterback-needy teams, Brissett is in a position to cash in and act as a bridge quarterback for one of these franchises that draft a rookie they want to ease into the starting lineup. Who knows? There are probably franchises punting on this season to take Caleb Williams or Drake Maye as well that may ask Brissett to hang around on a multi-year deal.
And Brissett has earned and deserves every penny he makes this off-season. If that means his time in Cleveland is over, then good for him. Even in his one year in Northeast Ohio, Brissett will go down as a fan favorite, the ultimate teammate, and a Browns legend.
We could say Brisset's poor decisions in the red zone were key to losing at least 2 of the 4 losses in the October and September time frame. but hey. A nice guy, a nice teammate.
There gets to be some heated - if not odd - debates about the salary cap. It's manageable...it's manipulate-able...it's a real thing. It's also the reason Jacoby won't be back next year. (BTW & FWIW..I'm not pinning that likelihood as being the fault of the FO.) If we really ARE a contender for next year, I'd rather have Jacoby as the #2 than Mond...but the cap won't allow that...and that's unfortunate. JMO.
More chance they contend if Woods comes back than if he doesn't. the offense is the problem.
and if they get what they want to fix the offense, it will be the wrong prescription. Because if they go all pass happy with bad WR, and not @uick throws to beat the blitz, then they'll be even worse than they are today.
It does seem odd that only yesterday they were still saying he was in critical condition. But in the grand scheme of things being well enough to go home is some wonderful and great news!
I'm no doctor, but I would guess there is a basic timetable and checklist in place once you remove a breathing tube from a human that had a life-threatening event. Until that time and checklist is fulfilled, the patient would probably not change status. Just my attempt at a common sense guess though.
But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
I have no idea. It just seemed odd to go from critical to going home in one day. I'm certainly glad he is well enough to get to go home. What I found to be odd isn't important in the grand scheme of things.
Every report about him that came from the locker room confirmed that he was smart, funny, personable and professional. The kind of guy every team wants on its roster. I would enjoy reading an article telling us that he's been picked up for next season, although I rather doubt such a thing will come to pass.
TO ALL DAWGS READING THIS THREAD: Where do you see Mr. Brissett's future taking its next step?
I think he handled his business better than most folks would have expected... but not handled well enough to earn him a starter's job on another team. Perhaps a one year inked agreement as a bridge QB while some team brings along their next QB1, but not much more than that. Had he won enough games to place CLE in the >.500 house before Deshaun came back, he might have a stronger case for a big payday. I'd love to see him stick here on a contract that makes all parties content. He has chemistry/history here, bros love him, and he's proven himself a capable cog in the machine, should CLE #4 go down for a game or three.
Better football minds than mine: pro's/con's to keeping Mr. Brissett? Money/cap issues? Feasibility?
In my naïve opinion, you don't just let proven assets walk.
Wait... I thought he was in critical condition yesterday?
Just hearing about it on TV brought back memories of the Lions Mike Utley of the Detroit Lions suffering a similar but more devastating injury. Wheelchair, etc. Early 80's...ish?
I was sitting in the living room with my Dad in 1971 watching the Bears game as we did every week when WR Chuck Hughs DET died on the field from a massive heart attack. At the time, I was a HS football player and vividly remember the shock of seeing a player actually die on the field. My Dad was a Pathologist and took the time to explain to me what was happening on the field that day as we watched this young man die. Hughes had just caught a pass a few plays earlier as the Lions were driving in the final minutes. With about 60 seconds left in the game, Hughes just fell facedown to the ground, clutching his chest. He had suffered a fatal heart attack. Paramedics tried to revive him but were unsuccessful. I remember them wheeling him away on that stretcher as my Dad told me he was most likely dead as we seen his arm hanging lifeless from the stretcher.
It's strange how much things have changed over the years. Back then, they didn't hide stuff like that on TV and didn't have all the experts on TV explaining what was happening. The game also continued as soon as Hughes was removed from the field. I know it was only for the 60 or so seconds that were left but they played on none the less. It was a different time. I'm glad Hamlin is doing better and hope he makes a full recovery. Stuff like this always brings you back to the reality that football isn't everything.
Clem, I would love to keep him. However, he deserves a chance to start. He was 8th overall in QBR, which is regarded as the most complete ranking mechanism of all that are out there. He ranked 6th overall in PFF QB rankings, which is another highly respected source. We were in the top 6 in offensive efficiency while he was playing. He deserves to get paid starter money.
My only concern would be is that he never came close to performing like that w/NE, Indy, and Miami. I think Stefanski's offense and usage of QBs was huge and that likely won't be duplicated elsewhere. With that said, while I wish we could keep him, I hope he gets paid.
I am going to miss Jacoby What a refreshing change after the previous guy.
Jacoby is a great guy...but not a starter. The current guy is a sexual predator. The last guy was a flag-planting, OSU destroyer...and THIS is what Nick Chubb had to say about the last guy last May:
I hate reporters who do this crap. The Headline says that "Nick Chubb calls Baker Mayfield his best friend" and you read the article and Chubb says that he considers Mayfield "one of his best friends". There's a difference and it's not just semantics.
Jacoby left t-shirts w/personal messages for his teammates. Baker had a podcast and called out his teammates for not wanting to win.
Baker comes out w/a t-shirt talking about Unleashed. Jacoby goes on national TV after a win and wears a t-shirt w/the pics of Bitonio and Teller on it.
Jacoby saying positive things about the Browns on his way out and Baker denies that the Browns were ever his team when asked what he thought about his former team's record. And guys like you continue to defend him.
TO ALL DAWGS READING THIS THREAD: Where do you see Mr. Brissett's future taking its next step?
I think he handled his business better than most folks would have expected... but not handled well enough to earn him a starter's job on another team. Perhaps a one year inked agreement as a bridge QB while some team brings along their next QB1, but not much more than that. Had he won enough games to place CLE in the >.500 house before Deshaun came back, he might have a stronger case for a big payday. I'd love to see him stick here on a contract that makes all parties content. He has chemistry/history here, bros love him, and he's proven himself a capable cog in the machine, should CLE #4 go down for a game or three.
Better football minds than mine: pro's/con's to keeping Mr. Brissett? Money/cap issues? Feasibility?
In my naïve opinion, you don't just let proven assets walk.
3... 2... 1... discuss, plz.
I won't speak to one specific team but just what I feel will be the general situation he will land in. Some teams have great QB's. When you look at the money they have wrapped up at the QB position the odds are they aren't going to pay a backup QB a large contract amount. A few of the teams lacking at QB have a great opportunity to draft a QB which on its face suggests a strong QB class.
Some teams have average or less QB's with little to no chance of being able to draft one of the top QB's in this class unless they can work out paying another team a kings ransom for an opportunity to do so.
I would look for Jacoby to land in a situation where a team has a below average starter that's not able to depend on him. The Jets would be one example of such a situation. In that situation those teams aren't paying top QB money to their starters and don't know if they can depend on that starter. So paying more for a high quality backup QB would seem like a logical investment. It's also possible he could land on a team that drafts a high pick at the QB position to fill in the gap while the rookie develops.
Every report about him that came from the locker room confirmed that he was smart, funny, personable and professional. The kind of guy every team wants on its roster. I would enjoy reading an article telling us that he's been picked up for next season, although I rather doubt such a thing will come to pass.
TO ALL DAWGS READING THIS THREAD: Where do you see Mr. Brissett's future taking its next step?
I think he handled his business better than most folks would have expected... but not handled well enough to earn him a starter's job on another team. Perhaps a one year inked agreement as a bridge QB while some team brings along their next QB1, but not much more than that. Had he won enough games to place CLE in the >.500 house before Deshaun came back, he might have a stronger case for a big payday. I'd love to see him stick here on a contract that makes all parties content. He has chemistry/history here, bros love him, and he's proven himself a capable cog in the machine, should CLE #4 go down for a game or three.
Better football minds than mine: pro's/con's to keeping Mr. Brissett? Money/cap issues? Feasibility?
In my naïve opinion, you don't just let proven assets walk.
3... 2... 1... discuss, plz.
I would love to keep the guy.
I also think JB is at the point he wants a starter role, but we can't offer that.
I would give JB an offer and a date by which it will still be good. I would wish him well as he seeks another shot at starting. If it doesn't happen, he has our best offer.
I agree w/your take. Selfishly, I would love for us to keep the guy. However, he has earned the right to get paid like a starter. I hope he collects as much money as he can.
Clem, I would love to keep him. However, he deserves a chance to start. He was 8th overall in QBR, which is regarded as the most complete ranking mechanism of all that are out there. He ranked 6th overall in PFF QB rankings, which is another highly respected source. We were in the top 6 in offensive efficiency while he was playing. He deserves to get paid starter money.
My only concern would be is that he never came close to performing like that w/NE, Indy, and Miami. I think Stefanski's offense and usage of QBs was huge and that likely won't be duplicated elsewhere. With that said, while I wish we could keep him, I hope he gets paid.
Yep, if Berry had a clue last season, he should have extended him for a year early on and on the cheap. That extension would or could have netted us some picks or damn good backup.
Chris Jones is a good choice at DI. Aaron Donald is a great player, but he missed a lot of games. Quinnen Williams [Jets] and Christian Wilkins [Dolphins] were the best I saw this year other than Jones.
I shared this in the playoff weekend thread. Posting it here, too, so everyone gets a chance to see it.
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
This is crazy; why can't the Browns ever catch a break like this? This is an article about the starting QB for the Niners today, Brock Purdy. The kid is on fire and looking like a top-10 starter. Selected last in the draft.
Brock Purdy Was Mr. Irrelevant. Now He’s Mr. Impossible.
Joe Montana. Steve Young. Yelberton Abraham Tittle. Some of the best quarterbacks to ever set foot on an NFL field played for the San Francisco 49ers, but none did what Brock Purdy has done this season.
You want wins? Purdy is one of only three rookie quarterbacks since the merger to start five or more games and go undefeated as a starter. The two others played for the Steelers: Mike Kruczek in 1976 (6-0) and Ben Roethlisberger in 2004 (13-0). Both rookie quarterbacks’ teams went on to play in the conference championship.
Are touchdowns more your thing? Only Deshaun Watson had a better TD rate in his rookie season (9.3 percent vs. 7.6 percent for Purdy), and Hall of Famer Dan Marino checks in at a distant third (6.8 percent).
Perhaps you prefer a measure of overall efficiency? Purdy’s passer rating of 107.3 is the best ever for a rookie with 50 or more pass attempts. Or maybe you don’t like raw passer rating (I can’t really fault you). Purdy is also tops all time in rookie Passer Rating Index,1 which adjusts for player era, beating out Marino by 3 points (128 vs. 125). He’s also first in adjusted yards per attempt index, besting Roethlisberger by 1 point (127 to 126).
And Purdy did all of this after being picked dead last in the 2022 draft? Somebody make it make sense.
---stats graphic on site---
Starting the year as the backup quarterback to Jimmy Garoppolo, who was himself the backup to Trey Lance, Purdy’s eventual opportunity was part of a trend that shaped the league in 2022. Sixty-eight quarterbacks started at least one game in 2022 — the second-most starters used in a season in NFL history, according to ESPN’s Stats & Information Group.
Due in part to all the injuries, teams attempted passes at the lowest per-game rate in 13 years, and that lack of passing led to teams posting the fewest passing yards per team game (218.5) over that period. But it wasn’t just passing volume; quarterback efficiency also suffered. Leaguewide adjusted net yards per pass attempt dipped below 6.0 for the first time since 2017, another season notorious for the number of injuries to top QBs.
Yet despite being a third-string, seventh-round talent — just the sort of player you’d expect to contribute to the leaguewide QB slump — Purdy transcended the league’s environment and strung together five games of production that is unprecedented in league history. It’s difficult to overstate just how surprising this is.
As a point of comparison, consider the case of Watson, a quarterback who missed most of the past two years due to a suspension stemming from accusations of sexual misconduct by more than two dozen women. It shouldn’t be surprising for even a formerly elite player to have trouble playing at a high level physically and mentally after a layoff of that length. That makes Watson’s return late in the season a reasonable comp for the hurdles Purdy had to overcome when his number was called.
And while it’s not a perfect comparison — the 49ers defense is superior to that of the Browns, and Kyle Shanahan is a better coach than Kevin Stefanski — it’s pretty clear that coming into the year, most would have bet on the former All-Pro first-rounder putting up better stats than whomever Mr. Irrelevant wound up being.
Instead, over the last five games of the regular season, Purdy bested Watson in every meaningful statistical category.
---stats graphic on site---
Remarkably, Purdy’s YPA, passing touchdowns, TD-to-INT ratio and off-target throw percentage either tied for or led the league over that period. Meanwhile Watson’s 19 sacks — and never forget that sacks are a QB stat — was the highest total in the league over the final five weeks.
All of which is to say that being a quarterback in the NFL is hard, even if Purdy somehow made it look sort of easy. And maybe that’s because, well, it kind of was. There’s evidence on tape that Shanahan did everything he could to make the game as simple as possible for his rookie starter. Purdy’s best plays by EPA came on calls like rollouts, which gave Purdy defined, half-field reads, or on passes to running back Christian McCaffery and tight end George Kittle that featured more yardage after the catch than through the air. There were even wild orbit motion, double-fake passes with a “Y-leak” thrown in that went for scores.
---video on site---
Still, Shanahan’s genius for scheme only explains so much. Eventually Purdy had to stand in the pocket, process the defense past his first read, and deliver the ball downfield on time and on target.
---video on site---
Those are the throws we expect NFL starters to make — throws that teams draft QBs in the first round to execute. The fact that Purdy made them with regularity when the league took 261 players before him is revealing. Not even the 49ers — the team that ultimately took a chance on Purdy (with its ninth selection of the draft) — can escape embarrassment completely. After all, if any QB can run Shanahan’s system, why spend three firsts and a third-round pick to trade up for Lance just a few years ago?
The truth is, no one really knows anything about projecting quarterbacks to the NFL. If they did, Brock Purdy would be impossible. Instead, the Niners are 9.5-point favorites over the Seahawks this weekend with a starting QB who was drafted after four punters and a placekicker. And instead of impossible, Purdy and the Niners somehow appear inevitable.
Our QB, 230 Mil Guaranteed, theirs on a Mr. Irrelevent, selected dead last in the draft, rookie deal! I get so sick of being a Browns fan when I see things like this. Nothing like that happens here. NOPE. That's why part of me thinks it's likely that DW never does squat on the Browns just because of our failure history. They got a kid that should never have seen the field this year playing like Tom Brady.
IMO that's making a big deal out of nothing anyway. ^ Brock Purdee may play well or not, but getting all weirded out that he came out of nowhere is making a big deal out of nothing.
and It doesn't change how you/we can predict what will become of others who come from different backgrounds.
The way I look at it, good for Brock Purdy. It's a nice story. I will say one thing about him. He couldn't have got drafted by a better team and coach to play for. He probably wouldn't have been this successful with a lot of other teams.
Heck, without the injuries to both Trey Lance and Jimmy Garoppolo he wouldn't have even seen the field in the first place for that matter. But yes, he was in the prefect situation with the perfect HC.
Actually from my understanding Garoppolo can leave at any point after the season is over. So as far as actually having QB's under contract going into the 2023 season, Garoppolo is off the table.
IMO that's making a big deal out of nothing anyway. ^ Brock Purdee may play well or not, but getting all weirded out that he came out of nowhere is making a big deal out of nothing.
and It doesn't change how you/we can predict what will become of others who come from different backgrounds.
Not to mention we have seen this before. Young under the radar qb comes out of nowhere to light it up. Then defensive coordinators have film to study on him for an entire offseason. Come the following season he is back on the bench by week 8 because he was figures out.
The NFL’s Highest-Paid Players 2022 Brett Knight Forbes Staff
The Forbes ranking of the NFL’s highest-paid players reflects on-field earnings—including base salaries and all bonuses (option, roster, signing and workout)—paid in 2022 or in connection with the 2022 season, for contracts signed as of August 11, 2022. Incentives that are based on 2022 individual or team performance are not included.
The off-field earnings estimates are determined through conversations with industry insiders and reflect annual cash from endorsements, licensing, appearances and memorabilia, as well as businesses operated by the players. Investment income such as interest payments or dividends is not included, but Forbes does account for payouts from equity stakes athletes have sold. Forbes does not deduct for taxes or agents’ fees.
Just want to comment about the "Pro Bowl"...there will be NO GAME PLAYED as the NFL decided to make the Pro Bowl a SKILLS COMPETITION.
While I agree that Brissett is more deserving than the Ravens qb...if we take into account the fact that many believe Brissett does not have a future in Cleveland due to the expense involved in re-signing him...I don't know what the big deal is..?
There was no promotion of Brissett by the Browns franchise and if they rely on fan and player voting, Huntley might have received more fan and player votes than Brissett.
Joe Mixon arrested: Bengals star in trouble over 'aggravated menacing'
Henrique Bulio Modified Feb 02, 2023 06:54 PM EDT
Cincinnati Bengals running back Joe Mixon has been issued an arrest warrant on a count of Aggravated Menacing, according to Mike Renner of Pro Football Focus.
The warrant for Mixon, 26, was issued in Cincinnati.
The arrest could've not come at a worse time for the running back, as his roster spot is in jeopardy for the 2023 season. The Bengals, who recently ended their season in an AFC Championship Game loss to the Kansas City Chiefs, need to save cash for Joe Burrow's new contract; releasing Mixon would open up to $10 million in the salary cap.
Mixon was drafted by the franchise in 2017 with the 48th overall pick. Although his talent as a first-round pick was undeniable, he fell in the draft because of a previous history of assault charges against Amelia Monitor. He reached a settlement with the women just six days before the draft; some teams removed him from their board entirely as a result of the incident.
He was given a chance by the Bengals, and became one of the most important players on the offense. The emergence of guys like Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins alongside Burrow shifted the focus to more of a passing offense, meaning that his value to the team has diminished in the past two seasons.
UPDATE: According to Local 12, from Cincinnati, Mixon "allegedly pointed a gun at a woman and said 'you should be popped in the face. I should shoot you now. The police can get me."
The Bengals released a statement:
"The Club is aware misdemeanor charges have been brought against Joe Mixon. The club is investigating the situation and will not comment further at this time"What is aggravated menacing?
According to Ohio laws, aggravated menacing is a more violent type of threat than just menacing. "The prosecution must prove that you knowingly caused another person to believe that you would cause serious physical harm to their person, property, unborn child or immediate family."
It does not bode well for Mixon based on his previous actions. If his actions were directed at a woman, it's even worse. This would justify an immediate release by the Bengals.
Will the Bengals release Joe Mixon? With the amount of money that can be saved in the salary cap, his roster spot is going to be a huge storyline in Cincinnati.
He was already a candidate to be cut following Samaje Perine's emergence in 2022. But now, his future with the franchise is bleaker. As much as he might be a good player with the ball in his hands, some things are just inexcusable. He's a serious candidate to be cut now.
According to Spotrac, the Bengals have the 6th-most cap space available in the NFL for the 2023 season, but one must consider the fact that Joe Burrow is due to receive a new contract this offseason. Cincinnati will try to save all the money it can.
Joe Mixon arrested: Bengals star in trouble over 'aggravated menacing'
Henrique Bulio Modified Feb 02, 2023 06:54 PM EDT
Cincinnati Bengals running back Joe Mixon has been issued an arrest warrant on a count of Aggravated Menacing, according to Mike Renner of Pro Football Focus.
The warrant for Mixon, 26, was issued in Cincinnati.
UPDATE: According to Local 12, from Cincinnati, Mixon "allegedly pointed a gun at a woman and said 'you should be popped in the face. I should shoot you now. The police can get me."
This is important because there is no way the Raiders want the $40 million in guarantees to kick in. Thus far, the Raiders have not permitted Carr to talk to other teams. I support Carr in not making things easy for the Raiders by extending the date of the guaranteed money. The Raiders better get busy.
Charge against Cincinnati Bengals RB Joe Mixon dismissed
CINCINNATI —
An aggravated menacing charge against Bengals running back Joe Mixon has been dismissed.
The charge was dismissed at the request of the city's prosecuting office, saying there needs to be additional investigation before moving forward with the case.
The prosecutor's office said Cincinnati police has been in contact with the victim who they say understands the need to dismiss the case and the potential that it can be refiled at a later date.
The prosecutor's office said the victim wants to go forward with the charge if it is refiled.
The warrant has been recalled, subject to further filing by the city of Cincinnati, Judge Curtis Kissinger stated Friday.
The development comes less than a day after a warrant was filed, accusing Mixon of aggravated menacing following an incident with a woman in January.
Court documents said on Jan. 21 in the 300 block of Walnut Street, Mixon allegedly pointed a firearm at the victim stating, "You should be popped in the face, I should shoot you, the police can' get me."
The Bengals traveled to New York on Jan. 21 to play the Buffalo Bills for the AFC divisional championship.
Peter Schaffer, Mixon's agent, told WLWT Thursday that he expected the charge to be dropped.
"It was a rush to judgement. They're dropping the charges first thing in the morning. I really feel that police have an obligation before they file charges because of the damage that can be done to a person's reputation — to do their work. They should be held to a higher standard. Because I don't play with people's lives," Schaffer said.
Aaron Rodgers to consider future during darkness retreat
ROB DEMOVSKY ESPN Staff Writer 3:42 PM ET3 Minute Read
Aaron Rodgers explains 'isolation retreat' to help contemplate NFL future.
Aaron Rodgers explains his plans to take a four-day darkness retreat to help contemplate his NFL future.
Aaron Rodgers hopes the darkness will help him see the light about his future.
The Green Bay Packers' quarterback said Tuesday on "The Pat McAfee Show" that he will embark on a four-day/four-night "darkness retreat" soon after the Super Bowl on Sunday.
"I've got a pretty cool opportunity to do a little self-reflection in some isolation," Rodgers said. "And then after that I feel like I'll be a lot closer to a final, final decision."
Rodgers, 39, said he has not decided if he will play in 2023, whether that's with the Packers or another team, amid reports that he could be traded.
"For sure; it's a real thing, 100 percent," Rodgers said of retirement. "That's why it's going to be important to get through this week and to take my isolation retreat and just to be able to contemplate all things my future and then be able to make a decision that I think is best for me moving forward and in the highest interest of my happiness and then move forward."
He said last summer that he had taken part in ayahuasca ceremonies that can produce hallucinations similar to the drug dimethyltryptamine (DMT). He said the darkness retreat does not include the use of ayahuasca.
"It's just sitting in isolation, meditation, dealing with your thoughts," Rodgers said. "It stimulates DMT, so there can be some hallucinations in there but it's just kind of sitting in silence, which most of us never do. We rarely even turn our phone off or put the blinds down to sleep in darkness. I'm really looking forward to it."
Rodgers said the retreat will be alone in the confines of a small house in an undisclosed location. He said meals are delivered, but otherwise there is no other contact with the outside world. However, he said he could leave at any point during the stay if he chose to do so.
Rodgers won the amateur portion of the PGA Tour's AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am in partnership with professional golfer Ben Silverman on Sunday. During the tournament, fans could be heard trying to convince Rodgers to play for their team. Among the teams believed to be most interested in Rodgers should the Packers trade him are the Las Vegas Raiders and New York Jets.
"I'm not a free agent, I'm under contract with the Packers," Rodgers said. "That gets lost in the conversation a lot. In years past, there's been a couple years where we got ousted from the playoffs by the Niners and then I went and played at Pebble and those years were very razzing, I would say, from the crowd. A lot of Niner yells and other various well-timed trash talk.
"This year was a lot more positive, I think. The sentiment was very positive, people wanting me to get traded to their team, and the Raiders fans were probably the most vocal and the most numerous."
I guess that unless you get the blessing of "the chosen one," posting an article that is in reference to new team rules for Russell Wilson and his Bronco teammates doesn't qualify as a post about player news. Always wanting to start a fight if it doesn't meet his agenda or slanted opinion.
I see Rodgers and Brady very much the same in at least one respect. They love attention and drama. At some point nobody will give a damn any longer. I look forward to that time.
I guess that unless you get the blessing of "the chosen one," posting an article that is in reference to new team rules for Russell Wilson and his Bronco teammates doesn't qualify as a post about player news. Always wanting to start a fight if it doesn't meet his agenda or slanted opinion.
"Sean Payton addressed the media after his introduction as the new head coach of the Denver Broncos and was asked about Russell Wilson’s personal coach in the locker room. Payton shuts down the idea of any outside coaches within the locker room next season, and Colin explains this is exactly what Wilson needs next season to get back on track."
So, you're saying a real coach would ban personal coaches, saying that's the difference between an OC and a HC (a set of balls, obviously), and then calling it player news?
Good stuff, Steve.
BTW, does Stefanski encourage personal coaches in the locker room?
Actually, it was a reference to the former HC Hackett that allowed that kind of crap and the new HC Payton. You guys are so sensitive, you think any comment whether about the Browns or not is a direct shot at our team. I don't know if Stefanski allows personal coaches in his locker room or not but your assumption I was referencing Stefanski is very interesting. Maybe those of you in the know can enlighten us since obviously what is happening in Denver with their players (Player - News) has hit a nerve here with some Cleveland fans.
Here's your context, Pit. Nobody is trying to silence anyone, quite the contrary. I'm enhancing his voice to show how ridiculous it is. Y'all can post away in every thread, about anything, for all I care.
Actually, it was a reference to the former HC Hackett that allowed that kind of crap and the new HC Payton. You guys are so sensitive, you think any comment whether about the Browns or not is a direct shot at our team. I don't know if Stefanski allows personal coaches in his locker room or not but your assumption I was referencing Stefanski is very interesting. Maybe those of you in the know can enlighten us since obviously what is happening in Denver with their players (Player - News) has hit a nerve here with some Cleveland fans.
I'm not sensitive, you haven't struck a nerve, don't flatter yourself lol. I find it humorous that you are so triggered by Stefanski.
I wasn't triggered by Stefanski - in fact - I'm not the one who even brought him up. Maybe you should really listen to the context of the report that clearly points out the difference a real HC makes.
I guess that unless you get the blessing of "the chosen one," posting an article that is in reference to new team rules for Russell Wilson and his Bronco teammates doesn't qualify as a post about player news. Always wanting to start a fight if it doesn't meet his agenda or slanted opinion.
Who really started the fight? Who really is sensitive?
I responded with: "Back to Player News," and went to post articles about players--Rodgers and Carr. I didn't call you names. I didn't even call you out. I pointed out that "the difference between a HC and an OC" was not about players. It's about some who are good head coaches and others are not.
There are three names that keep coming up about why people are not posting or leaving the board. You, Pit, and 888. And I think it's a damn shame that we lost a quality poster like peen because of you guys and your constant hijacking of threads and starting fights that make having a reasonable conversation about the thread topic impossible. Then, you play the victim.
Only 4 quarterbacks ranked lower than Carson Wentz on ESPN’s QB bargains list Bryan Manning Tue, February 7, 2023 at 6:44 AM EST
The Washington Commanders knew they were taking a risk sending multiple picks to the Indianapolis Colts for quarterback Carson Wentz. In addition, Washington would be on the hook for his entire 2022 salary of $28 million.
The Wentz experiment went as many expected it would go. He played in eight games, making seven starts, and Washington went 2-5 in the games that Wentz started.
Sure, the Commanders had offensive line problems in 2022, but Wentz’s presence often made those issues worse than if Taylor Heinicke or Sam Howell were under center. Wentz was sacked nine times in a Week 3 loss to the Eagles.
ESPN recently used analytics to break down which NFL quarterbacks were bargains in 2022 — and which ones were not. The way ESPN’s formula works, the more money you make, the more that is expected from you.
In addition to the formula, ESPN breaks the quarterbacks into tiers. The top tier is “Established starters not on rookie deals,” which means quarterbacks on their second contract or more. There were 15 quarterbacks in that tier, with Patrick Mahomes as the biggest bargain. Mahomes counted almost $31 million against the salary cap in 2022 and came in with 52.24 points over expected value.
Wentz ranked No. 11, with -59.14 points. Believe it or not, there were four quarterbacks ranked below Wentz in this category, and they were Russell Wilson, Matthew Stafford, Aaron Rodgers and Deshaun Watson. Watson, of course, missed 11 games due to a suspension and signed a controversial fully-guaranteed contract last offseason.
The next category was “Rookie-deal starters.”
Players such as Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert and Jalen Hurts were ridiculous bargains in 2022, playing on rookie contracts. All three are eligible for extensions this offseason.
Next up, there were “Journeymen quarterbacks.” Guess who landed here? That would be Heinicke. Considering Heinicke’s cap hit was $2.8 million, a lot wasn’t expected from him, yet he produced 17.37 points over expected total, which was No. 6 in this category. Geno Smith was a runaway bargain here.
Washington rookie quarterback Sam Howell wasn’t listed, as he started only one game for the Commanders in 2022.
The picture paints itself. One poster said nothing in regards to Stefanski and others blamed him for doing exactly that and came in to feed. Then when someone pointed that out and how typical that is, claimed he was the troll. This isn't a puzzle I should need to solve for you.
...had nothing to do with Stefanski. Even though you keep saying he is incompetent and that he's really an OC, not capable of being a "real" head coach?
Nobody is butt hurt. Just because people call out the obvious isn't indicative of how they feel. Actually I find it hilarious. Now you've resorted to playing connect the dots because there was nothing at all mentioned regarding Stefanski. I think thou doth protest too much.
Nobody is butt hurt. Just because people call out the obvious isn't indicative of how they feel. Actually I find it hilarious. Now you've resorted to playing connect the dots because there was nothing at all mentioned regarding Stefanski. I think thou doth protest too much.
That is how reading comprehension works. Take contextual clues and understand the deeper meaning in the words. Just because someone didn't literally use a word doesn't mean the context doesn't imply it.
Nobody is butt hurt. Just because people call out the obvious isn't indicative of how they feel. Actually I find it hilarious. Now you've resorted to playing connect the dots because there was nothing at all mentioned regarding Stefanski. I think thou doth protest too much.
That is how reading comprehension works. Take contextual clues and understand the deeper meaning in the words. Just because someone didn't literally use a word doesn't mean the context doesn't imply it.
The contextual clue was to watch the video where it was stated more than once that Payton's rules for the players showed the difference between a HC and an OC. No grey area, no assumption made, just a view of a HC taking control of a team that had lost control. This is an abrupt change for the players from what they were used to and contrary to popular belief, was player news. This thread doesn't denote Browns Player News. If fact, thru 8 pages on this thread - 43 different players not associated with the Browns have been mentioned. 9 different HC's have been referenced not associated with the Browns. 12 different teams not named the Cleveland Browns have been referenced. However, with my post about the Broncos you're trying to connect the dots and say it was implied? You need to get a life - that's just plain BS and you know it.
Comprehension means understanding what it written. Not making up what you think someone may or may not have meant in the words that were written.
So you only pedantically read only the words written to understand what people say? We both know that is not true just like we both know you are going to fight about it.
Along w/announcing the HOFers last night where our own Joe Thomas was inducted, NFL Honors took place. Here are the winners and a feel-good moment. Impressive night for the Jets.
MVP: Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes
Offensive Player of the Year: Vikings WR Justin Jefferson
Defensive Player of the Year: 49ers DE Nick Bosa
Coach of the Year: Giants' Brian Daboll
Offensive Rookie of the Year: Jets WR Garrett Wilson
Defensive Rookie of the Year: Jets CB Sauce Gardner
Comeback Player of the Year: Seahawks QB Geno Smith
Walter Payton Man of the Year: Cowboys QB Dak Prescott
Damar Hamlin steals the show
It's only fitting that the Bills safety headlined the event with a surprise appearance, after his late-season on-field collapse rightfully overtook every NFL headline until his recovery. Bengals and Bills trainers, as well as University of Cincinnati medical personnel, received a standing ovation for their efforts in saving Hamlin's life onstage at the NFL Honors. But Hamlin was living, breathing evidence of their service -- and answered prayers -- as he proclaimed himself an example of God's plan to inspire.
Comprehension means understanding what it written. Not making up what you think someone may or may not have meant in the words that were written.
So you only pedantically read only the words written to understand what people say? We both know that is not true just like we both know you are going to fight about it.
What we know is people reach preconceived conclusions based on their predispositions and then try to present it as factual.
It certainly is. Many of you have labeled steve as a hater so anything he posts in automatically taken in that context. People connect dots they have created in their minds to read anything and everything he posts as something nefarious. And here you are trying to do that exact same thing with me. The difference is I don't really care what any of you think about me. All I do, is consider the source.
You do understand that "we" is plural and you, as well as many others are no less guilty of it than those you point fingers at.
He's showing the difference in the role of a HC verses an OC.
And let me give you another example that works in reverse. Something being floated around. It's about how Eric Bieniemy may take on the same role as OC for another team in the NFL. Teams I've seen mentioned are the Ravens and Commanders. But I wondered why in the world would he leave such a successful franchise of winning to take the same job elsewhere? I mean that's a lateral move and not a HC position that he's been interviewed for in the past?
The reason that was given is because it's perceived that all he is doing is running and teaching Reid's system. That he isn't really doing anything that other teams would see as innovative or of his own creation in Kansas City. That if he wants to make an impression on other teams in becoming a HC he will need to go a team with a defensive minded HC, install and succeed in actually being what people see as a traditional OC.
Now it would be easy to try and tie that into some subliminal message about the Browns. And one could certainly draw a comparison to Van Pelt as to how it fits in a similar description in regards to circumstances. But it's not. It's a different team, different people in a city far from Cleveland.
More from the NFL Honors night. This is really special.
NFL Honors celebrates group that saved Bills' Damar Hamlin
11:55 PM ET Alaina Getzenberg
While NFL Honors is mostly about celebrating the league's top stars, the crowd at this year's event saved some of its biggest applause for the heroes who too often go unrecognized.
The medical and athletic training staff of the Buffalo Bills and Cincinnati Bengals and some of the staff from the University of Cincinnati Medical Center that saved Bills safety Damar Hamlin's life were recognized on stage Thursday night at Symphony Hall in Phoenix.
Hamlin then joined them on stage and received an ovation of his own.
"Every day I am amazed that my experiences could encourage so many others across the country and even across the world," Hamlin said. "Encourage to pray, encourage to spread love, and encourage to keep fighting no matter the circumstances. Sudden cardiac arrest was nothing I would have ever chosen to be a part of my story, but that's because sometimes our own visions are too small even when we think we are seeing the bigger picture.
"My vision was about playing in the NFL and being the best player that I could be, but God's plan was to have a purpose greater than any game in this world."
Hamlin collapsed on the field and suffered cardiac arrest during the first quarter of the Buffalo Bills' Week 17 game at the Bengals on Jan. 2. The game was postponed and ultimately canceled.
Bills assistant athletic trainer Denny Kellington, who received a fifth-place vote for the NFL's MVP award from ESPN's Suzy Kolber, performed life-saving CPR on Hamlin. The people brought on stage Thursday night represented a portion of the medical personnel, first responders and more who played a role in saving Hamlin's life. Hamlin thanked everyone on stage with him and all those who supported him, adding, "The journey will continue."
Hamlin stayed at UC Medical Center for almost a week after the medical emergency. He then flew back to Buffalo, New York, and spent about two days at Buffalo General Medical Center/Gates Vascular Institute, before being discharged Jan. 11.
During his speech Thursday night, Hamlin shared that he met an ICU doctor on his third night awake at UC Medical Center. The doctor shared that he had a similar experience and showed Hamlin that he was now OK.
"There was so much uncertainty at the time, and just him coming to me, showing that I could live a normal life again, it meant so much to me in the moment," Hamlin said.
He then went on to thank the doctor and everyone else on the stage with him, as well as those who prayed and hoped for him.
Hamlin was recognized at NFL Honors a day after receiving the NFLPA's most prestigious award, the Alan Page Community Award. His parents, Mario and Nina, were alongside him to receive the award from the NFLPA.
Hamlin's Chasing M's Foundation raised more than $9 million in the days after he went to the hospital, with the money largely going through GoFundMe for a toy drive that had an initial goal of $2,500. Giving back to kids and the community in his hometown of McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania, just outside of Pittsburgh, has been one of Hamlin's priorities.
"My entire life I felt like God was using me to give others hope and now with a new set of circumstances, I can only say he was doing what he's always done," Hamlin said. "I have a long journey ahead, a journey full of unknowns and a journey full of milestones, but it's a lot easier to face your fears when you know your purpose."
Comprehension means understanding what it written. Not making up what you think someone may or may not have meant in the words that were written.
So you only pedantically read only the words written to understand what people say? We both know that is not true just like we both know you are going to fight about it.
What we know is people reach preconceived conclusions based on their predispositions and then try to present it as factual.
So people use what other people have said in the past to color what they say now? Yes, that's what reading comprehension and contextual clues are all about. Finally you understand something, but you will still argue it.
This is a little long to post all the text on here, but if you click on the tweet, you will find a really nice story about Martin Emerson and his path to the NFL. It's worth the read.
It's just the usual off season drama Rodgers loves to create. [satire]Rumor has it he is eating shrooms in his darkness retreat to help him decide whether to retire or not.[/sarcasm]
It's just the usual off season drama Rodgers loves to create. [satire]Rumor has it he is eating shrooms in his darkness retreat to help him decide whether to retire or not.[/sarcasm]
Not sure where to put this, but didn't want to start a new thread. I remember him being known as the dirtiest player in football. Some regarded that as a compliment...LOL
The Raiders avoided a big cap hit, but they got nothing for Derek Carr while the Browns got picks in return for the likes of Case Keenum and Baker Mayfield. Ouch!
The Raiders avoided a big cap hit, but they got nothing for Derek Carr while the Browns got picks in return for the likes of Case Keenum and Baker Mayfield. Ouch!
Not sure where to put this, but didn't want to start a new thread. I remember him being known as the dirtiest player in football. Some regarded that as a compliment...LOL
Thanks for posting, Vers. I recall as a young man, the talk around the league was that Dobler had more name recognition, but Dierdorf was the much better player on that Cardinal line.
Today is Feb 21st and that means teams can slap the franchise tag on players. It's important to recognize the difference between the Exclusive and Non-Exclusive tags. Here is a pretty good article about the tags.
What is an NFL franchise tag? The difference between exclusive and non-exclusive tags
By Mark Puleo and Jeff Howe Feb 20, 2023
The NFL franchise tag is a buzzy phrase during the football offseason. It’s one of professional sports’ quirkiest contracts, a type of deal that is unique to the NFL.
For some players, being franchise tagged is an achievement, a designation of inclusion into the league’s upper echelon. For many others, it’s a disappointing hindrance in securing a long-term deal.
Here’s everything you need to know about it ahead of the 2023 season deadline opening on Feb. 21:
What is the franchise tag? A franchise tag is a one-year contract that every NFL team is allowed to issue once per offseason. It allows a franchise to strategically retain a player on a guaranteed deal with a non-negotiated salary. It can only be used on players set to become unrestricted free agents. Here are the two types of franchise tags:
Exclusive tags prohibit a player from negotiating with another team and guarantee the player a salary based on the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position during that current year, or for 120 percent of the player’s previous salary, whichever number is higher.
Non-exclusive tags allow a player to negotiate with other teams. If a player on a non-exclusive tag agrees to a deal with a new team, the original team can match it or refuse and be awarded two first-round picks as compensation. The salary on a non-exclusive tag is determined by the average of the top five salaries at the player’s position from the previous five years applied to the current salary cap, or for 120 percent of the player’s previous salary, whichever number is higher. The combination of a cheaper salary and the steep price of two first-round picks has made the non-exclusive tag the more popular option for teams to use. Teams also use the tags as a negotiation strategy for drawing big trade offers out of other teams.
A player can be franchise tagged for consecutive seasons. The tag gets more expensive with each consecutive season, as a player is guaranteed at least 120 percent of his first franchise tag in year two. If a player is tagged for three consecutive seasons, he gets either 120 percent of the average of the top five salaries at the position, 144 percent of his second franchise tag salary or the average of the top five salaries for the highest-paid position in the league (which is always quarterbacks). Whatever number is highest becomes the player’s new salary.
Prior to the change to make consecutive franchise tags more costly, Seahawks offensive tackle Walter Jones was tagged in three consecutive offseasons before holding out for a long-term deal. The 2006 collective bargaining agreement amended the franchise tag following Jones’ case, making it much more expensive to tag a player for a third time.
Who benefits from the franchise tag? The franchise tag has long been viewed as a favorable stipulation for team owners and general managers. It minimizes long-term risk for team builders by allowing them to keep a desired player on a one-year deal. If the player gets injured or their performance falters, the team can let them walk or re-sign them at a lower rate.
Among players, the tag is generally unpopular. Stars hoping to secure a long-term contract are restricted in their negotiations by the tag, as players don’t have an official way to refuse.
Players who have resisted the franchise tag Some players have fought back against being franchise tagged and have resorted to holding out during training camp and even extending that into the season in some cases. Here are a few of the most notable cases:
Le’Veon Bell: Maybe the most famous instance, Bell took his fight against the franchise tag further than any other player in recent history. After looking for a big deal from the Steelers in 2018, Pittsburgh tagged him and Bell refused to play without long-term contract assurance. Bell sat out the entire season and then got the four-year contract he was looking for from the Jets in 2019.
Davante Adams: After being tagged by the Packers in 2022, Adams threatened to repeat Bell’s boycott and sit out if he didn’t receive an extension or was traded. He was subsequently dealt to Las Vegas, where he received a five-year contract worth record-breaking money.
Yannick Ngakoue: A third-round pick by Jacksonville, Ngakoue posted 37 1/2 sacks through his first four seasons to outplay his contract. After skipping offseason workouts in 2018 in protest over not getting a new deal, Ngakoue requested a trade from Jacksonville. But the Jaguars instead placed the franchise tag on him after 2019, leading to a war of words with the front office. Ngakoue refused to sign the tag and threatened to skip games before Jacksonville traded him to Minnesota.
Sean Gilbert: Over 20 years before Bell’s season-long boycott, Gilbert pulled the move first. After acquiring him in a trade for the No. 6 pick in the 1996 NFL Draft, Washington sought to place the franchise tag on Gilbert after his Pro Bowl season. But Gilbert refused to play under the tag, sitting out the entire 1997 season. After tagging him again the next offseason, Gilbert objected and asked for arbitration. The Panthers would later offer him the long-term deal he wanted, and Washington was awarded two first-round picks as compensation for not matching.
‘I knew what I was walking away from’: Le’Veon Bell on his time (and teammates) in Pittsburgh and new life with the Jets
History of the franchise tag This 2023 offseason marks the 30th anniversary of the franchise tag. It was first introduced in 1993 through the NFL’s fourth-ever CBA after the players association sought to create a form of free agency. NFL owners, in turn, were looking to install a salary cap.
The policy was first referred to as the “Elway Rule,” as the concept came about after Broncos owner Pat Bowlen refused to sign the CBA due to fears of losing his star quarterback to free agency. The tag was initially only used for quarterbacks in order to keep the franchise’s most important players from leaving. Over time, the franchise tagging strategy has shifted from superstars to targeting breakout players in order to keep them from under team control.
Notable franchise tag candidates this offseason
The most high-profile tag candidates are quarterbacks Lamar Jackson (Ravens), Daniel Jones (Giants) and Geno Smith (Seahawks), running backs Saquon Barkley (Giants), Josh Jacobs (Raiders) and Tony Pollard (Cowboys), along with Chiefs left tackle Orlando Brown and Jaguars tight end Evan Engram.
The Ravens will tag Jackson at $32.416 million if they can’t reach a long-term deal, which surely seems possible considering the sides have negotiated for two years without a resolution. This could open the rare possibility of another team signing Jackson to an offer sheet at the potential cost of two first-round picks, which would be less than the Broncos (Russell Wilson) and Browns (Deshaun Watson) traded for quarterbacks last year. Or the Ravens could simply match the offer sheet and put this saga to an end.
Jones and Smith are interesting candidates as well because each is coming off career seasons. All parties involved would prefer a long-term deal to the tag, but the Giants and Seahawks must weigh the cost of extending the player against the risk of starting over at the game’s most important position. Neither team is expected to be in the range of one of the draft’s top-three QB prospects: Alabama’s Bryce Young, Ohio State’s C.J. Stroud or Kentucky’s Will Levis.
Similarly, the Raiders and Giants must have wide eyes when looking at the value of keeping a star running back for $10.091 million. (Of course, the Giants can’t tag both Jones and Barkley, so their call is more complicated.) Jacobs led the NFL last season with 1,653 rushing yards and 2,053 yards from scrimmage. Barkley was fourth with 1,312 rushing yards and seventh with 1,650 yards from scrimmage. The tag would make them the ninth highest-paid player at their position in terms of average annual value.
'This is where I want to be': Josh Jacobs is ready for contract talks, but on his terms
Pollard has been the Cowboys’ best back for a couple of years, but they’ve also got Ezekiel Elliott on the books for a $16.72 million cap hit in 2023. It’s unrealistic to think they’d tie up nearly $27 million in two running backs, so Elliott’s deal will almost certainly be restructured regardless of the Pollard tag decision.
The Chiefs, coming off their second Super Bowl in four years, acquired Brown in 2021 in their effort to revamp their offensive line. The plan worked, so they won’t be giving up one of the league’s premier left tackles. The unique element with Brown, though, is that he played on the tag last season, so he’d earn 120 percent of his 2022 contract, which equates to nearly $20 million. A tag would give Brown the leverage in subsequent contract negotiations.
Engram had the best season of his career and clicked with quarterback Trevor Lawrence during the late-season run. The $11.345 million tag isn’t overly obstructive, but the Jaguars have to move around a lot of money to be cap compliant. It’s also shaping up to be a good draft to need a tight end, so the Jags could go the more frugal route.
Defensively, the biggest names on the tag watch are Bengals safety Jessie Bates and Commanders defensive tackle Daron Payne.
Bates played on the tag last season, though, so a $17.352 million price in 2023 feels unlikely unless it’s a placeholder for an imminent extension. That’d be the fourth-highest number at the position in average annual value.
The Commanders decided in recent years to heavily invest in their defensive line, using first-round picks upfront from 2017 to 2020. Payne, the No. 13 pick in 2018, is coming off his best season, and the Commanders shouldn’t let him hit free agency.
Interesting if this happens. The RB position continues to shrink in value as other position groups rise, even for a really good RB with the ability to perform extremely well in the passing game.
The NFL had video evidence of this beating in the summer. They decided to push back the date of their decision. It quietly went away. But yeah, that Personal Conduct Policy is enforced w/out bias.
I know some claim it's not an issue in today's NFL, but it is. This helps explain cuts such as Woods and Lewan with more possibly to come.
Savings Plan: Players Who Could be Cut to Create Cap Space
It won't cost anything – and would free up plenty of money – to cut Taylor Lewan. Bud Dupree, Robert Woods and Ryan Tannehill are among the others who could go.
On twitter it was said, I believe it was true, that Berry tried to trade for Woods last year or the year before. I say that, because in the few years Berry has been our GM, he has a knack to go after guys he wasn't able to acquire the first time around, usually via trade. Takk McKinley and Jadeveon Clowney come to mind. Maybe there are more examples?
Woods has injury concerns and is 30 so maybe that shipped sailed.
Lewan's knee is a mess. Back in October, he was talking about needing another surgery just to live a normal life and have a chance at potentially playing again. It's a shame. Here is a link to the story if anyone wants to read it.
Being someone who started watching football in 1969 as an 8 year old, the values of RBs in this position list seems crazy compared to what they were when a great QB might throw 24 TDs and 12-14 ints in a season. RB were almost over drafted when I was a kid. Times change. IT also seems like QBs were traded a lot when I was young. Guys like Johnny U, John Hadl, Namath, Roman Gabriel, Fran Tarkenton (twice), Sonny J, were all traded during their career after they were established.
Being someone who started watching football in 1969 as an 8 year old, the values of RBs in this position list seems crazy compared to what they were when a great QB might throw 24 TDs and 12-14 ints in a season. RB were almost over drafted when I was a kid. Times change. IT also seems like QBs were traded a lot when I was young. Guys like Johnny U, John Hadl, Namath, Roman Gabriel, Fran Tarkenton (twice), Sonny J, were all traded during their career after they were established.
What's surprising to me, as far as these numbers are concerned, is on the defensive side of the ball.
I saw the figures and couldn't believe LB is the highest paid defensive position group. I don't value the LB group higher than the defensive line (edge and interior) or any secondary position. If fact, by default, I value it the least. Does anyone know if the LB numbers are skewed based on defense in some way....3-4 v 4-3? I doubt it but just wanted to check.
Does anyone know if the LB numbers are skewed based on defense in some way....3-4 v 4-3? I doubt it but just wanted to check.
I don't think so. I think they take the salaries of the top 4 or 5 players at each position and then average those numbers. I'm not positive about that, though.
Like you, I'm surprised by the LBers being paid the most. I would have thought DE's or corners would have been the highest paid.
Does anyone know if the LB numbers are skewed based on defense in some way....3-4 v 4-3? I doubt it but just wanted to check.
I don't think so. I think they take the salaries of the top 4 or 5 players at each position and then average those numbers. I'm not positive about that, though.
Like you, I'm surprised by the LBers being paid the most. I would have thought DE's or corners would have been the highest paid.
The reasoning behind the difference is because today's linebackers are hybrid corners and hybrid DE's in addition to the standard LB duties. The ability to go sideline to sideline, defend the likes of Kelce or McCaffrey, rush the passer while also being able to take on a guard or tackler coming after you requires some of the most diverse talent in the NFL (when you have them).
Report: Lions to release Michael Brockers Posted by Charean Williams on February 24, 2023, 12:07 AM EST
The Lions are releasing defensive lineman Michael Brockers in a cost-cutting move that will create $10 million in cap space, Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press reports.
The sides agreed to part ways Thursday, according to Birkett.
The mutual parting comes two years after the Lions acquired Brockers in a trade with the Rams. He played only 125 defensive snaps — 29 percent of the team’s defensive snaps — in six games in 2022 as the Lions ushered in a youth movement in the defensive line.
Birkett, 32, was the oldest player on the team’s roster.
He now will have to decide whether to continue his career after 11 seasons, and that could be dictated by his free agent market.
The Lions, who have 15 unrestricted free agents, including eight starters, entered Thursday with about $16 million in available cap space.
Thanks for posting. Some people hate on NFL players for trying to make as much money as they possibly can while they're playing, but I say---get it while you can. The NFL will chew you up and spit you out in a heartbeat. Some still believe that NFL players don't deserve guaranteed contracts even though the three other major professional sports have contracts. What good is money that you will never get to see? The NFL is beyond greedy. We see it in almost every move they make.
I saw his split numbers when I was watching Quincy Carrier.
He posted the snaps played at FS and box and how it differed when he was with the Rams. With the Browns as far as results. The data suggested he was not used the same and it showed in his play. Hard to say what Schwartz will say when he sees the tape.
I saw him get beat in coverage and miss tackles often. Jesse Bates IMO would be an upgrade..
I saw him get beat in coverage and miss tackles often. Jesse Bates IMO would be an upgrade..
bone...I saw the same performance and can not imagine Schwartz putting up with a half-ased effort from anyone on his defense. Bates would be an improvement, imo.
If we got the best player at every position, it would be great. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen. I don't think we can afford, nor should we want to give, Bates the contract he seems to desire. I just don't think it makes sense with where we're at.
I think Bates is a good player. I think interior DL is where we should do most of our investing, though. Better DL can make the guys behind them look better. There's not really much you can do to make bad DL look better.
I agree. Bates would be great to have on the team, but that's more of a luxury. Berry will not allocate that kind of money to Bates when the DL is in the shape it is in. It's a move the Browns cannot afford to make.
On the surface form what we have seen I would tend to agree with you. I do wonder with the difference in the run blocking scheme under Schwartz, could it be that some of our current interior DL players be better suited in the double gap technique that Schwartz runs verses the single gap that Woods ran?
If we got the best player at every position, it would be great. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen. I don't think we can afford, nor should we want to give, Bates the contract he seems to desire. I just don't think it makes sense with where we're at.
I think Bates is a good player. I think interior DL is where we should do most of our investing, though. Better DL can make the guys behind them look better. There's not really much you can do to make bad DL look better.
Bull...I totally agree, signing the best available free agents at every position would be great...but due to the salary cap, it is not possible.
One issue I have brought up at times..."coaches are teachers"...teachers of the game of football. If a franchise focuses on the hire of the "best coaches/teachers",
they should be able to develop their draft and free agent talent to help fill the team needs.
Teams that are best at drafting and developing their talent have an advantage over the rest of the NFL.
His money and Bates are not that different maybe a couple mil.
If they decide to move on without JJ3 then someone has to be added. I don't think Ronnie Harrison returns. That leaves D'Anthony Bell and Delpit.
So, there is a need.
In 2023, Johnson will earn a base salary of $8,750,000 and a roster bonus of $1,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $13,500,000 and a dead cap value of $12,600,000.
He's due a $1 million roster bonus on the third day of the league year, which will factor into the decision. If the Browns designate him a June 1 trade or cut, they'll save $9.75 million on the cap with a dead cap hit of only $3.75 million. Jan 27, 2023
Bates was on a one year $12.9 contract. So, it is about negotiation and where it ends up.
SAY WHAT? The salary cap has a bearing on who the Browns can sign? Imagine that!
It does, but at the same time, using all of it makes sense. You don't get any abiding advantage by not using cap space. It comes down to using it wisely. There's no sense in putting spinners on a rusted out pickup. If you're going to invest a lot somewhere, it makes sense to put it in the thing that makes the whole thing go. In modern football, that seems to be the QB. Complaining about a team spending the most amount of money on the most important position in some way or other in every single thread seems disingenuous and agenda-driven.
If we got the best player at every position, it would be great. Unfortunately, it's not going to happen. I don't think we can afford, nor should we want to give, Bates the contract he seems to desire. I just don't think it makes sense with where we're at.
I think Bates is a good player. I think interior DL is where we should do most of our investing, though. Better DL can make the guys behind them look better. There's not really much you can do to make bad DL look better.
I tend to agree w/you and Milk on this topic. I'm not saying bonefish and others are wrong. We all have our opinions. However, at this current point in time, there are quite a few d-linemen that might be available. I would add DE to a need, as well. I think we could get by w/just adding one DE and then use Wright and probably even Thomas in the rotation. Also, there are also guys available late. I think using FA to address the DL is important this year.
His money and Bates are not that different maybe a couple mil.
If they decide to move on without JJ3 then someone has to be added. I don't think Ronnie Harrison returns. That leaves D'Anthony Bell and Delpit.
So, there is a need.
In 2023, Johnson will earn a base salary of $8,750,000 and a roster bonus of $1,000,000, while carrying a cap hit of $13,500,000 and a dead cap value of $12,600,000.
He's due a $1 million roster bonus on the third day of the league year, which will factor into the decision. If the Browns designate him a June 1 trade or cut, they'll save $9.75 million on the cap with a dead cap hit of only $3.75 million. Jan 27, 2023
Bates was on a one year $12.9 contract. So, it is about negotiation and where it ends up.
The safety tag is now ~$14.5M. That's probably the minimum Bates might agree to.
Quote
As the top safety hitting the open market, Bates has a good chance of becoming the first player at his position to eclipse the $20 million per year mark and $40 million fully guaranteed, both of which would surpass Los Angeles Chargers safety Derwin James. The Bengals’ reported final offer to Bates included roughly $17 million in guaranteed money.
I think seeing what Johnson can do with Schwartz makes the most sense. He's been a good player. He's only 27. Hopefully, he'll look better with better play in front of him.
I appreciate your comment but never have I said anything about the money being paid Watson. My issue is and has been the kicking of the can down the road with him and more players than any other team in the NFL. Case in point in reference to your comment, the Browns started out the 2022 season with the most available cap in the entire NFL. Even after signing Conklin to his new deal, they were sitting on nearly 30M in excess cap. They could have very easily used that money to pay a major portion of Watson's year one deal instead of sitting on it. Now, with all the restructures, the Browns are sitting nearly 14M in the hole even after the league increase in cap (one of the largest ever) and the carryover money applied. To get out of this mess and to have some money to play with, the Browns are most likely to restructure Watson again freeing up plenty of cap space in 2023. The drawback is that kicking the can down the road will eventually have to be accounted for and it would appear that after another restructure, Watson's cap hit for each of his final 3 years will be right around 67M per season. Even if Burrow, Jackson, and Herbert get 50M deals per year, the Browns are looking at a cap charge of more than 20M more per season for their QB than any other team since those other teams will certainly have bonus money attached to those deals.
I know certain posters here don't want to hear that or really don't give a crap but prorated bonuses can never be reduced - whatever you allocate to that year is due that year. You can keep adding to it, but you can't reduce it. Another restructure will put Watson's prorated bonus at almost 20M per season in addition to his 46M salary.
The next 2 seasons, the Browns have almost 12M per season in prorated bonus due on Garrett in addition to his salary.
Ward has 7.68M prorated bonus due each of the next 4 seasons in addition to his salary.
Njoku has 3.98M prorated bonus due each of the next 4 seasons in addition to his salary.
Wills salary will go from 3.29M to 15M guaranteed in 2024 if the Browns exercise the 5th year option.
There are 10 more players that also have prorated bonuses greater the 1.2M per season in addition to these players.
Another example is the talk of Chubb being let go or traded next season due to his 16.2M cap hit but what most don't know is the savings would only be 12.2M because no matter what they do, the Browns will have a 4M prorated bonus cap hit for Chubb whether he's here or not.
And acquiring free agents is also a possibility this off season. Dismissing it w/an ignorant comment like "an exercise in futility" does not change that.
The craziest thing is that you guys are insulted and take issue w/those of us who don't think everything is doom and gloom and are actually hoping this regime succeeds. On a Browns board, no less. Rooting for the home team makes one a "hater." LOL
It would be cool to meet w/you and we can discuss football if you like. We live pretty close to one another. Let me know.
I always thought Jessie Bates was overrated and the Browns were constantly taking advantage of his misteps. I hope he stays in Cincinnati for a long time so the Browns can score more touchdowns against that defense when he's on the field. Nobody would want any part of him in Cleveland.
so the plan, whoever or whatever the plan, may include getting rid of JJ3 and Ronnie Harrison.
Hmm. b/c I remember when they got rid of Kwan Williams, and whomever the other safety, whether Ward, or, or his replacement that hade a P in his last name, and then? they were in the playoffs every year with their new teams Buffalo, and forty-niners I think. The point is, the Browns are doubling down on what didn't pan out in the past. same ole thinking? no wonder they...
Well if they don't want to stick with JJ3 and Ronnie Harrison then what are they doing? Fixing what ain't broken?
eeehh,
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