Bruce Abramson and Jeff Ballabon, political strategists
Donald Trump's presidential campaign did not come out of nowhere, as some pundits suggest. For nearly a decade, wave after wave of Americans have echoed a simple message: The deck is stacked against us!
The message has been widespread and nonpartisan. Prior to Trump, we heard it from Obama's 2008 supporters, the Tea Party, the Occupy Wall Street movement, 2015 supporters of Elizabeth Warren, Ben Carson, and Bernie Sanders, Black Lives Matter, and Cliven Bundy, to name but a few.
They may not agree on who stacked the deck, whether the stacking involves race, class, gender, religion, education, national origin, orientation, income, wealth, high taxes, low taxes, the government, or restraints on government, but they all know that the game is rigged. The elites write rules that lock themselves in while keeping the masses out. How do they do it? Through the sleight-of-hand known as complexity and confusion.
As of mid-2015, the elite thought to respond by providing a choice between a second Clinton and a third Bush.
Enter Donald Trump.
Why do the masses love him? It could be his policies — though Tom Tancredo's hard line on immigration never made him a contender, the Democrats are already solidly against free trade, and Trump's tax plan hardly stands out. More likely, Trump fills a visceral need. He is a full-fledged member of the elite who roasts the rest of his class with gleefully detached contempt.
Trump provides the perfect antidote to Nancy Pelosi's "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it." The bill in question, of course, was Obamacare, 2,700 pages of legislation calling for thousands more pages of additional regulation — about 12 million words to date — claiming to fix our complicated health-care system by making it more complex.
The United States, founded as "a government of laws, not of men," has become a government of incomprehensible laws. Lawmakers have devised impenetrable regulatory systems rigged to be exploited by those blessed with elite degrees, ample time, and sizable budgets. Pundits, analysts, and academics help them along by ensuring that no issue in the public eye ever makes sense. American citizens, most of whom try to do the right thing most of the time, know that they're being played for suckers. Forget trying to calculate your tax bill, determine your health-insurance coverage, or understand your investments; we gave up on those things long ago. Try holding three pieces of garbage while staring at four color-coded receptacles. Or wondering whether letting kids play in the park or walk home from school will attract the police or child services. And when it comes to hiring, school admissions, money lending, real estate, contracting, or redistricting, try categorizing people by race and applying different rules to different categories, giving race appropriate but not overwhelming weight to generate outcomes that appear roughly fair — or risk being labeled a racist.
See what you can learn from the media: Universities are no place for free speech or inquiry. God is patriarchal. Gender is fungible. Christians are zealots. The Constitution is a menace. America is racist. Motherhood discriminates against children from motherless homes. Apple pie is poison unless it's organic and gluten free.
The elites who find sense in this mess all agree that a Trump presidency would be absurd. Why? Because Trump says outrageous things. For example:
If the problem is that we can't secure the border, Trump suggests building a wall and monitoring the door.
If the problem is that we can't tell which Muslims seeking to enter the country are peaceful and which are jihadis, Trump suggests keeping them all out until we learn how to tell the difference.
If Hillary Clinton insists that Trump's relationship with women is problematic, Trump suggests comparing his own record to that of her husband.
There are, of course, many valid reasons to question these ideas. They are short on detail, could prove unworkable, and seem likely to offend many people. But they put Americans first and they are hardly absurd; if anything, they are overly simplistic. Yet the attacks that they invite are almost uniformly unhinged. Trump drives the elite crazy with messages containing a simple, consistent subtext: You people are all nuts! Life doesn't have to be this complicated!
That message is Trump's gift to America. It is a message that our next president — whoever that may be — and members of both parties in Congress should take to heart. The country needs a massive, widespread, structural simplification. Americans should understand their nation's laws. Taxes and regulations should make sense. Decent families should not have to worry about government intrusion. Companies should have to spend little on compliance. And we need to show some respect for our own traditions. Even if America's culture is changing, its traditions cannot become toxic overnight.
America needs to make sense. Because otherwise, we are, indeed, just a bunch of losers.
He's admitted to having politicians in his back pocket.
he is the epitome of big business. He is the face of glutinous losers, he is disrespectful to women, to such a point that fellow female republicans are being verbally abused, one who stands on stage with him.
Then on top of everything else...... He has no idea about the struggles of the American people. He doesn't live in the same reality as us. He isn't self made. He was born into his money. He does not relate with the majority of the country.
Yet he's the leading candidate for the Republican Party?
He is a gift to America. He is a gift in a sense that he's showing the American people that the GOP has officially went off the deep end. Which is why you guys won't be winning the WH.
Aside from your first sentence, I thought you were talking about the Clintons.
That first sentence was a doosie wasn't it? You couldn't get by that one could you? It says it all. Frankly any company that goes bankrupt to save their owners billionaire ass should be forced to pay all beneficiaries back over time.
Aside from your first sentence, I thought you were talking about the Clintons.
That first sentence was a doosie wasn't it? You couldn't get by that one could you? It says it all. Frankly any company that goes bankrupt to save their owners billionaire ass should be forced to pay all beneficiaries back over time.
If you don't like the bankruptcy laws, change them, or lobby to have them changed. Until then, blame the legislators that created them, not the people that use them.
Do you own a house? Do you deduct your interest on your taxes? If so, you would probably call yourself a tax cheat. I would simply say you are obeying the law.
“My life has been about winning. I like to win. I like to close the deal,” Trump said when asked Monday afternoon what he thinks of all the people this whole election cycle who thought he wasn’t a serious presidential candidate.
“I’ve had that kind of a life—I’ve built a great company. And don’t forget when I filed the papers, everybody said ‘wow, that’s much more than we thought’ when I filed my federal papers on financials because it’s over $10 billion, substantially over $10 billion in net worth. I started with a very small amount of money and grew it into something that’s massive, one of the big fortunes, and I want to use that same brainpower—that same ability—to make our nation great again. We’ll be able to do it. The people are so amazing. The thing I have been most impressed with during my trips all over is just how smart the public is. They’re incredible. They really, really get it. So, I’m honored by your question actually because you’re right a lot of people said ‘oh, he’s never going to run and if he runs he’ll just have fun for a little while.’ This is not fun. I want to do something and our theme is Make America Great Again and that’s what we’re going to do.”
I don't know. Did you honor your vows? You know, till death do us part? I mean if someone commits adultery, that's different and expected. But as far as I know, that's the only Biblical exception.
You have to admit, at least I think you do, that no matter what happened, the Clintons stuck with their marriage while Trump has never been able to commit to one.
I don't blame people or judge people based on divorce, but let's face it, the moral majority considers divorce as wrong. They consider it a lie if you do not follow your vows. I'm sure if the Dems ran a candidate who was on their third marraige it would be an issue.
If not, I never would have brought it up. I actually find the party of the so called "moral majority" supporting a guy on his third marriage quite funny.
Ah, so morality is the key word now? Got it. Clinton doesn't have it, neither does trump. Okay?
And yeah, I pretty much honored my vows, right up until my ex came home at 2 in the morning and confessed she was having an affair - after trying to lie by saying she was at her friends house. And I told her I called her friend about 4 hours earlier.
But, morality is the key for you? Okay - Hillary doesn't even get an f in that category, she's so un moral there's no ranking. Trump gets a low grade as well.
Trump should get blasted in today's debate. If he counters the barrage and comes out on top, it's over. He is the Republican nominee and easily defeats the Democrat, whoever that might be.
Trump should get blasted in today's debate. If he counters the barrage and comes out on top, it's over. He is the Republican nominee and easily defeats the Democrat, whoever that might be.
Very Possible.
I do have a problem with the way he is being treated by some in the Republican party tho. Some are saying they won't support him if he is the Republican nominee. He frightens the RINO's who to me are nothing more than Democrat lights.
If the Party doesn't support the peoples choice it could be the end of the party.
We may end up with Trump running as an Independent do to this. Not good.
It is the most exciting Primary I have ever witnessed.
I will not support Trump. I think that he would be an absolute disaster as President. He has zero political experience, and there is a huge difference between being able to dictate in his own company, and having to negotiate and compromise to get things done as President. As far as foreign affairs, frankly, he scares the heck out of me. You cannot just dictate to everyone all around the world, yet that seems to be what he wants.
I will not vote for him. I will not do that to our country. I am far from being a RINO, and am far more conservative than most Republicans. I absolutely want the direction of this country to change. However, Trump is not the one to accomplish that change. You support him, and that's your right. I will not. That's my right.
Ah, so morality is the key word now? Got it. Clinton doesn't have it, neither does trump. Okay?
Which Clinton? Is Hillary guilty for Bills actions?
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But, morality is the key for you? Okay - Hillary doesn't even get an f in that category, she's so un moral there's no ranking. Trump gets a low grade as well.
It seems you missed my point. Morality isn't the key for me. However, the Christian right swears by it. They are a big part of the GOP. That was my point. It's odd how Trump seems so quick to blast Bill and Hillary while he is on his third marriage. It's hilarious.
Which Clinton? Is Hillary guilty for Bills actions?
It seems you missed my point. Morality isn't the key for me. However, the Christian right swears by it. They are a big part of the GOP. That was my point. It's odd how Trump seems so quick to blast Bill and Hillary while he is on his third marriage. It's hilarious.
You must have forgotten how Hillary went after those women who put themselves forward to report bill's indiscretions. She destroyed those women. The Clintons involvement with their 'foundation' and her term in the state department should be thoroughly scrutinized. You top that off with the mail server issue, Benghazi, and other scandals during her term at state, there is no reason why that woman should be trusted as president.
I will not support Trump. I think that he would be an absolute disaster as President. He has zero political experience, and there is a huge difference between being able to dictate in his own company, and having to negotiate and compromise to get things done as President. As far as foreign affairs, frankly, he scares the heck out of me. You cannot just dictate to everyone all around the world, yet that seems to be what he wants.
I will not vote for him. I will not do that to our country. I am far from being a RINO, and am far more conservative than most Republicans. I absolutely want the direction of this country to change. However, Trump is not the one to accomplish that change. You support him, and that's your right. I will not. That's my right.
The truth is, in the beginning I was for Bush, then I started liking Carson, today I am a Rubio fan. I can't wait to see how I vote.
I just think it is self destructive for those who run the Republican Party to come out against one of its own candidates before even one vote has been cast. It shows me the Republican leadership is somehow off track with the will of the people. Not good. Many of these Republicans are Republicans in name only.
It seems you missed my point. Morality isn't the key for me. However, the Christian right swears by it. They are a big part of the GOP. That was my point. It's odd how Trump seems so quick to blast Bill and Hillary while he is on his third marriage. It's hilarious.
What is really hilarious is you posting all over the place about the Morality of Trump getting divorced when you stood strong to have homosexual sex become a civil right. Now this is hilarious!
maybe i'm wrong, but pit has said that he personally doesn't support gay marriage, but since it's his personal belief, his personal belief doesn't need to be a law.
maybe i'm wrong, but pit has said that he personally doesn't support gay marriage, but since it's his personal belief, his personal belief doesn't need to be a law.
That's it exactly. I don't believe that I have the right to use my personal beliefs to infringe on the rights of others.
And once again another person has decided to try to twist my words. Anyone who has any reading comprehension at all can see that I find it hypocritical that anyone who feels they are a part of the "moral majority/Christian right" will support Trump.
Once again, I'm not in that group. I will support the candidate I feel is best qualified to be president. However, if I had been one who was all in on dogging Clinton on his affairs, I wouldn't be supporting someone on his third marriage.
Let's put it this way, if you really believe that God sanctified marriage between a man and a woman, you must also believe what he said about divorce. You can't pick and choose what you do and don't believe about the Bible depending on who your party is running for president.
Trump is on his third wife. I could care less about that. But a lot of the Bible thumpers in the GOP will have to explain how they suddenly abandoned their moral beliefs for a man on his third marriage if he wins the nomination.
I hate to hijack my own thread but I will say that homosexual sex was not the law and homosexual sex was not a right until good moral people like you fought to make it so or at least turned a morally blind eye to it.
Reagan would end up considered a RINO in today's day and age; I doubt many will get the irony of that, either.
And JFK would be considered a hard core conservative. What's your point?
The democrat party has gone from 'Ask not what your country can do for you' to 'We'll give you everything for free' in 50 years.
I remember what a breath of fresh, all American air Reagan was after years of the second worst president of all time, you know, now that Obama has replaced Carter.
I hate to hijack my own thread but I will say that homosexual sex was not the law and homosexual sex was not a right until good moral people like you fought to make it so or at least turned a morally blind eye to it.
But yea, The Donald is divorced. Hilarious!
That has nothing to do with what the Christian right in the GOP has stated about marriage and divorce. Nothing. But you keep on going! lol
You made what could be called an appeal to purity as a way to dismiss relevant criticisms or flaws of your argument.
In this form of faulty reasoning one's belief is rendered unfalsifiable because no matter how compelling the evidence is, one simply shifts the goalposts so that it wouldn't apply to a supposedly 'true' example. This kind of post-rationalization is a way of avoiding valid criticisms of one's argument.
Example: Angus declares that Scotsmen do not put sugar on their porridge, to which Lachlan points out that he is a Scotsman and puts sugar on his porridge. Furious, like a true Scot, Angus yells that no true Scotsman sugars his porridge.
I understand the Republican "leadership" is going bonkers trying to figure out what to call a brokered convention. The Dems on the other hand, are wondering if they should pull Biden out of the closet if Hillary is indicted and the socialist wins. If Trump continues to garner the support of "angry Americans" he will have "angry democrats" voting for him in the general election giving him a mandate. I think this is what most of the leadership of both parties fear the most.
The majority of democrats aren't gonna vote for trump, even if Hilary gets charged. They will just go to Bernie.
You need to be worried about the high number of republicans not even bothering to vote in the next election if trump is the nominee.
Y'all need to figure out your owns party's path before you even think about worrying about the democrats. You guys are divided on such a large scale that international news sites are constantly running stories about it.
Keep believing he is no threat to the Dem party...and the crowds he is getting at his speaking engagements are getting bigger and bigger...its a long process...but I dont think he is going anywhere.
Yes you are spot on. I heard some in the FBI are really upset that Justice is holding back on indicting the bag lady. The evidence is apparently really damning. They may have to open that coffin and let Joe run. Did you hear Biden say he regrets not running every day now?
My Brother is a big Trump guy and he even wears the Trump hat out in public. Most people tell him they like Trump but don't tell anyone about it because of the Crying Libby Class. He was at a bar the other day, sitting with a bunch of Republicans and Democrats from around the community. They were all in agreement that Trump was the Man.
They took turns taking selfies while wearing my Brother's hat!
This is the best Primary I have ever seen, can't wait till the votes start coming in to see if Trump will have a landslide or flop. Who will rise if he flops and will Gumby (Bush) ever get the respect he thinks he deserves.
Even if she is, all the votes will just go to Bernie, even though his campaign strategist are gonna have to tell him to cool it with the extremism he has of being a pretty far left candidate.
Bernie vs trump. Bernie will probably win slightly. Bernie might be too extreme for a lot of people, but whether it's warranted or not, trump is already viewed as sexist, racist, and xenophobic.
We can debate those 3 all we want, but when you have a lot of people on the right calling him that, that's a huge problem in a national election.
The democrats strategy only changes if by the grace of God, Rubio or bush wins the bid.
Then the whole thing becomes an actual race. Rubio and bush aren't extreme. Can't call bush sexist or racist because he speaks Spanish, supports the Latino community and isn't for breaking up immigrant families.
If you wanted a candidate on the right that can get a ton of Independent votes, Bush is the guy.
Rubio..... There's too much crap with him and his lack of financial discipline, especially his personal finance. But he's also Latino, and more center right. I dunno if he could generate a ton of independent votes like bush can, but he would probably have a better shot at getting the GOP united in supporting him. That's a huge start.
Unfortunately for the GOP, that's probably not gonna happen. You're two most viable candidates barely made the main stage for tonight's debate.
The 3 extremist are right now leading the polls, with the most extreme most likely winning the republican ticket.
So all the dems have to do is sit back in watch.
That's just my opinion, Tim. I really like political strategies. It's a fun hobby to be in.
Swish I know the guys rich...but you telling me the crowds he is drawing are paid for
He is filling stadiums man...But go ahead and believe what you want...like I said I dont like the guy but them crowds are not being paid for by him...have a good day...
That is a lot of paid people...and that is one of the smaller crowds Ive seen...he isnt going away...we will see november is a long way off in the political world.
I think it's Joe's call, if he wants the nomination he will tell Obama to indict Billary. Crazy Bernie will get the boot at a "bamboozlement" convention. Trump would have a ball with Biden.
Oh, please. The dems have been praying at the alter of JFK for 50 years. He gets brought up all the time. They even put up his lesser brother to be president, when teddy said, "I don't know" when asked why he was running. Obummercare was attributed to kennedys everywhere.
Even if she is, all the votes will just go to Bernie, even though his campaign strategist are gonna have to tell him to cool it with the extremism he has of being a pretty far left candidate.
Bernie vs trump. Bernie will probably win slightly. Bernie might be too extreme for a lot of people, but whether it's warranted or not, trump is already viewed as sexist, racist, and xenophobic.
We can debate those 3 all we want, but when you have a lot of people on the right calling him that, that's a huge problem in a national election.
So, because the republican nominee is still up in the air, the republicans battling it out means trump has no chance?
But, if Hillary is indicted, democratic votes will go to bernie? Nice open mind by the dems.
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So all the dems have to do is sit back in watch.
And not take a stand other than "we're going to tax the rich and make them pay more than their full share, cause it will get the votes of people we need. ???
Hillary is for raising taxes - yet she uses all the loopholes she can get. So do others, don't get me wrong. But her latest stump that's reported by the media is "I'm going to take from the wealthy in order to get for the poor"......and that sells. To dumb voters.
It doesn't happen though.
The r's have an inter party fight going on. When that fight is decided, they just might come together.
The d's have hillary, and if she's in legal trouble, as just about any other person with her level of lying would be, the d's will jump to bernie and his "we'll take from the rich to give to the poor".
Hilary is losing ground to bernie because hilary spends her time denying the truth of her lies, and attacking the republicans.
She spends little to no time with "plans"........she wants everyone to take her word on her lies, and campaigns as if she's already going against the republicans.
Face it swish, if you or I were in politics and had all the crap hillary has, we'd have been prosecuted.
She should be as well.
When you can refute that, we'll talk.
Remember the "used personal e-mail so I didn't need to have all kinds of devices" argument?
"Never sent or received classified e-mails."? Proven wrong.
Didn't ask for classified info to be sent to her - even though an e-mail explicitly asked for that?
"What difference does it make" concerning Benghazi.
Using her position (literally given to her for no other reason than her last name is clinton) to amass money for her foundation?
Flat broke when they left the whitehouse?
Multimillionaires now. (did they ever pay their legal debt?)
Wanting to raise taxes on the rich, while she herself has (well, with bill) used every opportunity to get out of paying taxes?
She's a liar of record proportions - way beyond her husband.
And yet people will vote for her??????????????
She's been caught in so many "I never did that", "well, maam, yes you did, and here's the proof" situations it's beyond ludicrous.
Yup, when you have an open mind, we'll discuss things. Until then........?
this is what i'm talking about, it's all about hilary with you. nothing else.
you can't tell somebody to have an open mind while you continue to keep yours shut.
hilary has done some shady ass stuff. i've admitted that over.
and over
and over
and over again, yet you seem to keep ignoring that little nugget.
but all the politicians have done some shady crap.
you keep posting "she lies, she's a liar"
well no duh, bro. but you, yourself, have also said that all politicians lie.
they all got their money using leverage from their political positions.
i'm tired of you and others ignoring what i'm saying, so i'm going to highlight this part, and if you choose to ignore it again, then it shows that the only person with a close mind on this board is you
remember how you was saying "well, everything you're saying about trump, sounds like you're talking about hilary"?
that's because they're ALL the same.
all of them. don't matter who. close your eyes, pick at a random picture of a politician. yep, you got it, they're still the same person as the other guy.
they all lie.
they all cheat.
they all claim to have religious moral high ground even though some how, some way, they get caught in a sex scandal.
they all are bought by special interest groups.
they all got money tied into places they have no business being affiliated with.
and WE ALL KNOW that the most of the politicians, left or right, should probably be in jail for something.
the american political system is so corrupt, it probably beats out some of these african countries for who has the most shady politicians located in one area.
i've said this over
and over
and over
and over again on this board arch, that the way our political system is set up, the corruption levels will continue to rise.
we have TWO. a whooping TWO political parties that are viable. the tea party is just an extension of the GOP. whatever the equivalent is from the left, it's simply an extension of the democrats.
i look at that and i'm like "all we got is two? even if it's an illusion, at least plenty of governments around the world have multiple parties to choose from, and are actually viable with the amount of seats they have".
bruh, all we have is TWO. one says yes, the other says no, nothing gets done.
our political system needs a massive overhaul, starting with term limits. right now-and i've said this before- we have a modern day monarchy, or a royalty class, if you will.
we got people who have been in power so long its astounding. we left England to get away from the monarchy, amongst other reason, then just turned around and made a modern day version of it. that's all we did.
so when you're crying about corruption and people lying, i'm sitting here reading this like "ok, who hasn't"?
we all know they aren't gonna go to jail for it.
****************** end unbiased statement********
that being said, it comes down to who sucks less. it has ALWAYS come down to who sucks less. and to ME, even with the laundry list of flaws Hilary has, she's still better than Trump.
Bernie, with the laundry list of flaws, is still better than Trump.
because you can't label them two as racist, sexist, or xenophobic.
right now, our country to the outside world, looks like racist, sexist, and xenophobic.
you might not think that matters, but when it comes to foreign relations, and attracting great people with great skills to come here in work, that matters.
so you guys wanna elect the guy that represents those three qualities?
and yet you wonder why the GOP has such a massive perception problem?
Ask Erik. Erik might not agree with me simply because he never agrees with anything i say, but one thing he has to admit, that anybody who has ever been in the military, or worked for the government, with the government, or been affiliated with the government will tell you:
it's not about what you're doing. it's about what you APPEAR to be doing. perception is absolutely everything, in pretty much anything you do in life.
Trump doesn't help himself at ALL. he might not be sexist, but when he attacks a fellow republican nominee and Megyn Kelly over their looks, kinda looks like a sexist, don't ya think?
he might not be a racist, but when you start calling everybody in the latino community rapist and criminals, he might look kinda racist, don't ya think?
he might not be xenophobic. but when you say you're gonna ban all muslims from coming into the country, kinda looks xenophobic, don't ya think? oh, that's also illegal, BTW. you can only ban citizens from countries that are considered enemies of the state, but you can't discriminate based off religion. that's unconstitutional.
you would hope a potential POTUS would know that. but i digress.
so i dunno what to tell you bro. at this point, it's innocent until proven guilty, and until she gets formally charged AND convicted, tough luck.
I'm on my phone so forgive spelling..Romney and McCain was terrible..I felt like puking when I voted for John M. The Republicans listened to the stupid media and dems..saying they needed a more centrist candidate..and freaking romney was the answer the rep..come up with:/
My point is..everyone says Trump is a joke will lose..ect..well the guy is pulling in giant crowds..is sticking his finger up at the GOPE and the rep..base is loving it...they can't buy him..when we have a 2 party system and they,suck..this is the vacuum that happens.
If I was the democrats...I'd want Jeb and kasich or christie,..to be the nomination to..because it would be just like McCain and Romney ..a win for the dems...like it or not...admit it or not...freaking Trump is getting people riled up...and I think he has a serious shot at winning the whole thing.
This is completely different from McCain and romney..I remember some of my friends saying the same about Barry..he won't beat the Clinton machine..and then barry's crowds started getting bigger and bigger...just like trumps are...and weather u belive or not..Barry is George bush...and Trump is going to win I think because of it.
Hillary is awful..I voted for bill c. But hildog no way..I like my money so Bernie would never be a choice for me...I do agree hillary won't go to jail..but if u me or anyone else that had a clearance and did what she did we would be in prison...for far less..
I'm just saying man..for someone who is a pile of poopoo..Trump is pulling massive crowds/support and not just from the crazy right wing but from democrats also..
When I get back to town/home I'll clarify...and back up what I say with proof. I can't stand replying on my phone..and won't be near a,pc for couple more days.
I think the dems are toast this election cycle and it will be done thanks to freaking Trump...I wish it would've been anyone but him..but it is what it is....and I don't see how McCain or Romney are even comparable to this election Cycle...and by all means I hope the D's run Bernie as the nomination..I still remember the map on the TV of the butt whoopen...Carter took and it will be the same thing if bernie gets the nod.I don't think he will but crazier stuff has happened...and I think Trump will beat Hillary,also...I remember being a kid and the media saying Carter would win right up to election time...so we will see...I'll try to reply in a few days..I'm just not able to right now..and won't have my phone in about 20 min..so don't take my slow/non response as not being interested in discussing this..have a great night.GO CAVS
Ask Erik. Erik might not agree with me simply because he never agrees with anything i say, but one thing he has to admit, that anybody who has ever been in the military, or worked for the government, with the government, or been affiliated with the government will tell you:
it's not about what you're doing. it's about what you APPEAR to be doing. perception is absolutely everything, in pretty much anything you do in life.
You're almost there, but not quite. The federal government is a huge, wasteful beast, that is more geared to keeping their 'federal employment' in place. If a government department does not spend it's allotted money in a fiscal year, it's budget gets slashed. If they over spend, they get more money. Therefore, there is a ton of waste in the federal government. They will hire people to do nothing. My wife worked for the DoC for a while, and her boss, who was sexually harassing women in their office, was finally brought up on EEOC charges. He got promoted into a position where he has an office, but no work and no staff. He got more pay and had to produce nothing as punishment.
We all know of an instance that is similar, especially if you have worked for or around the federal government. This is why I would prefer a Constitutionalist elected to the highest office. History has shown that when the federal government shrinks, the private sector grows. Our fellow citizens should never be able to be held hostage either by a government shut down, or the blame of a government shut down. The federal government shouldn't be doing 3/4s of the tasks they have taken upon themselves to do. We are sliding into a socialist state.
I have to admit, I'm pretty much over politics. I probably won't even vote because I'm just sick of it. I'm sick of candidates lying, sick of people bickering over stupid crap, sick of every argument being framed with bumper sticker logic, sick of the way the media frames issues, sick of the credit and blame game.....
Yesterday afternoon I was 100 feet from the facility in Charleston where they were holding the debate and I didn't even care... The more I follow politics, the angrier I get, the more it affects my mood and disposition... it's not worth it.
I have a few friends on facebook who post a lot of angry and sarcastic political stuff (one way or the other)... I've unfriended most of them...
Nothing is going to change and if it does change... it's probably not going to be because of the President.
My reason being that an uninformed vote is worse than a non-vote. How does one become informed? Hell if I know. Is there any straight information available? There are conflicting "facts" being thrown all around as the truth. How is one supposed to compare one candidate to another? For me, going to the poll is looking at a list of names of whom I know nothing about due to the ridiculous amount of bad information readily available. What good is a vote based on misinformation? It may as well be a random vote. Therefore I choose not to do more harm than good.
Trump. I think what Trump brings, his 'gift' if you will, is that he is not afraid to say things we are all thinking. For a filthy rich guy, his comments sound like they're coming from the average person who is fed up with the lying and deceit that is politics and the government overall. He doesn't sound like a rich guy who is covering up his self-serving motives under BS comments that make him seem like he understands us. I've noticed a lot of older people like him. I think that's because he's saying the same things these people think and want to hear them said out loud. I think that's why other politicians are so taken aback by him and have no answers for his comments.
Is Trump the truth? Sometimes. Does he have solid solutions for the problems at hand? He doesn't appear to have. Has he shaken up the political arena? He certainly has.
Since I pay little to no attention to politics I see something rather alarming to me, Trump seems nothing like his opponents which appears to be what people really want. That is, people are sick of the typical manner of politicians. Yet, they are concerned that he is not enough like them. I find that odd.
Anyway, this post is evidence of why I rarely read or post in political threads. I have no dogmatic opinions. I get lost in the ever deepening hordes of bad information on everything governmental. Like the rest of you, I have no facts, only opinions based on that bad information. I feel we are fed the information they want us to eat so we can develop opinions on the subjects of which they want us talking about.
Thanks for the response ddub.. I agree with pretty much all of it...
The "Trump Phenomenon" is a lot like you describe. I don't even know if the people who support him agree with most of what he says or if they are just happy to have somebody who isn't trying to appease and placate EVERYBODY in an effort to win their support... and who says something controversial and then doesn't immediately back down and apologize. I don't know if he has a clue what he's talking about but he says it with conviction and doesn't back down... and there is something to be said for that.
And you are absolutely correct, a lot of people claim their support is based on facts... which begs the question, which facts?
This all kind of came to a head for me recently when somebody posted something on Obama's accomplisments, comparing them to Bush... one of the claims was how much domestic oil we are using now, compared to when Bush took office, it's at record levels, our imports from the Middle East are down and we are using less... all 3 of these things are great... all 3 of these things, the post gives total credit to Obama and how much better he has been than Bush.
A little fact checking reveals that domestic oil production has been rising steadily since about 2004 due to some policies Bush implemented after Katrina and Obama continued... Obama did expand our ability to drill along the Continental shelf, something he deserves credit for, but while the federal government controls a lot of land (and water) where oil is retrieved, the largest increases have come on private land that the government really has no control over... so who deserves the credit for our increased oil production? Bush... and Obama... and the private sector oil companies... all have had a share in this...
So why must we frame it "us, good.... them, bad"? We had a policy that was working under one party, the other party continued it and improved upon it, and the private sector did what the private sector does.. isn't that how it's supposed to work?
Then there are the economic factors that totally ignore that from about 2003 through 2007, our economy was in pretty darn good shape until the housing collapse, which rippled into the banking collapse, etc... as if that was all Bush's fault. So I assume that if, in the next 6 months, there is some catastrophic event, even if it is outside the control of the President, that causes our stock market to tumble and unemployment to spike that Obama's entire 8 years will have been an abject failure? Simply because the numbers on his exit will not look good?
I think it's Joe's call, if he wants the nomination he will tell Obama to indict Billary. Crazy Bernie will get the boot at a "bamboozlement" convention. Trump would have a ball with Biden.
can you imagine how entertaining those debates would be??
I think I understand Trump's appeal to many voters in the same light as DC sees it.
But I feel compelled to also say this:
There are still many of us Americans who still appreciate CONTENT, once the rhetoric's applause has died. To date, Donald Trump has produced a paucity of such content... and the clock is ticking for him to start. If he leads the Republican Party all the way to the nomination, the "magnifying glass" will only sharpen its focus, and the questions will only become more focused. God help him, should that scenario arise.
Despite his populist appeal, Trump has shown no hint of substance behind the hype. And that should frighten the crap out of the RNC, if they want to nominate a candidate who can be taken seriously in a national election.
To date, Donald Trump has made headlines for exactly the same reasons that Bernie Sanders has:
They've both tapped into an unfocused sense of dissatisfaction with the staus quo... by giving them a villain to blame for their anxiety. Bernie blames Wall ST. and Big Biz. Trump blames illegals, Syrian refugees, and 'The Other' for our woes.
Neither are truly electable- for exactly the same reasons. They only speak to 'early pollers'... those charged-up Americans who are already in each candidate's "Amen Corner."
Trump's message is about as far right as a candidate could get. Sanders' message is about as far left as you can get in this current cycle. ....and most Americans don't come close to either of these philosophies.
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I'm gonna hit you with a characterization of Donald Trump that resonates with me. I'm going to quote it without giving attribution. Why? -Because I want to know your unbiased opinion of it before I tell you where it came from. I promise to reveal the author of this quote before another page of this thread evolves. Here goes:
"...but I think it's very important to understand that you have The Amsterdam News, you have The Daily News. You have the New York Times, you have the New York Post. You have the 'New York City' of Donald Trump; you have the 'New York City' of Eric Gardner. The problem with Trump is: he's a multi-billionaire pseudo-populist with autocratic sensibilities and some fascist proclivities. That's what's dangerous about him."
[moderator/host]: "But as a politician, he's a natural... I mean-"
"Yes. He's for real... he's just not 'for right.' "
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Truth be told: I called this the day after Obama won his re-election campaign. I didn't know that Donald (freakkin') Trump would be tho poster child of my prediction, but I knew someone would step into this role. Why? Because that's what we do, as a teenaged society. We do massive mood swings because we aren't yet mature enough to do anything else. Let's face it- as a nation, we didn't leave childhood until we exited Reconstruction. We're still navigating the learning curve... and the pace of progress is painfully slow.
I knew it with the same conviction that compelled me to buck the assertion that Obama's election would lead to a "Post-racial America." On the contrary, I predicted that his election would lead to a "Hyper-Racial America"... because I wasn't fooled about who we truly are as a nation.
Now, we have Trump building 2,000 mile-long walls to keep Mexican rapists and drug dealers out. We have Trump advocating to ban ALL Syrian refugees indefinitely, until we can verify which one or two among 100 thousand can be found. We have Trump calling into question Raphael Cruz's legitimacy as a viable Presidential candidate...
...and rabid, mouth-breathing "low-info's" are cheering him on.
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To date, I'm not yet worried... but I am concerned. If the right wing of America's electorate is gullible enough to support this guy, with his "All fire/no substance" approach, then it means Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton will become POTUS 45...
...because as dumb as she's been in the past, America isn't intellectually flat-lined enough to entrust a thrice-failed real estate playa and Reality TV personality to the Nuclear Football.
If she allows something like this to happen, perhaps we truly ARE living in "The End Times." Republicans need to step (tf) up NOW. Derail this idiot before he ruins your brand for the next generation.
American citizens truly deserve better choices than these. On BOTH sides of the political 'talent' pool...
I'll play, I'm in one of those moods this morning.....
Quote:
If he leads the Republican Party all the way to the nomination, the "magnifying glass" will only sharpen its focus, and the questions will only become more focused. God help him, should that scenario arise.
It will certainly do that..sharpen its focus that is...but to this point all of the candidates are speaking in generalities..what I think Trump will do is surround himself with smart people and will make decisions from there.
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Despite his populist appeal, Trump has shown no hint of substance behind the hype. And that should frighten the crap out of the RNC, if they want to nominate a candidate who can be taken seriously in a national election
No what should frighten the crap out of the RNC is...they got voted into congress and senate...and didnt listen to what the people wanted who sent them there..Ive saw people say if Jeb didnt have his last name he does he would be taken serious...really?? he lays this crap and wonders why people dont take him serious...he is the very thing the people are tired of...he is out of touch.
To date, Donald Trump has made headlines for exactly the same reasons that Bernie Sanders has:
Yeah with 2 very different messages...I'll take Trumps over Bernies any day.
Quote:
Neither are truly electable- for exactly the same reasons. They only speak to 'early pollers'... those charged-up Americans who are already in each candidate's "Amen Corner."
I think youre so wrong about that its not even funny...Trump has a serious chance to win...I wouldnt have said that when he first started his campaign...I actually thought he was Clinton plant...I no longer believe that..he is in it to win it....I hope Bernie is the nom..Because Trump will win in a landslide...
Quote:
Trump's message is about as far right as a candidate could get. Sanders' message is about as far left as you can get in this current cycle. ....and most Americans don't come close to either of these philosophies.
No I would say the other rep. candidates messages for years has been to close to the left...and the 1 thing I give Dem. credit for?? They have made Rep. play their game...oh we need the rep. nom. to be centrist...oh look lets hold the .republicans to much different standards then the Democrats...Trump is playing the Dem. political handbook and they hate him for it...the dems and reps hate him for it. I hope the GOPe wake up and realize their way stinks and people are sick of it.
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I predicted that his election would lead to a "Hyper-Racial America"... because I wasn't fooled about who we truly are as a nation.
Yeah it had nothing to do with how Obama has carried himself and who's sides he chose...sorry man I dont agree Obama is as much of the problem as anyone. He was supposed to be the great one the one to unite people and he has done nothing but divide.
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and rabid, mouth-breathing "low-info's" are cheering him on.
Youre smarter then this...its a lot more then low info's cheering him on...I do agree he should leave the birther thing alone...but like I said I dont agree with Trump on everything....but to say its just low info mouth breathers supporting him is well...just as ignorant as the statement you just made.
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If she allows something like this to happen, perhaps we truly ARE living in "The End Times." Republicans need to step (tf) up NOW. Derail this idiot before he ruins your brand for the next generation.
Step up now?? Jesus man thy have already ruined the "brand" long before Trump come on the scene. I don't like Trump...have never liked Trump...but if he is there at the end I'll be voting for him.
Quote:
American citizens truly deserve better choices than these. On BOTH sides of the political 'talent' pool..
This we agree on. The political system...well who runs the political system in this country sucks...and so do the ones who keep voting for the same pile of crap over and over. We need better choices, but who in the hell wants to get into politics this day and age...its pathetic.
I'll end it here...I think youre a smart person Clem...but you sound just like the left's talking points...just in a much more suave way. I just disagree with you that Trump has no chance...or that its just mouth breathers supporting him...guess I could say the same about people who vote Democrat and will cast their vote for Hillary or any Dem voter no matter what.
Any American who would vote for a liar and criminal like Hillary or a Socialist after all the decades of fighting Socialism in this Nation is neither Patriotic nor American.
that will be a total of 16 years you guys haven't sniffed the WH
Swish, I understand the way I post comes across as a Republican...I am not...its just happens to be in this election and the choices I have...well..I'm leaning that way.
I absolutely couldnt stand Obama...had nothing to do with his skin either...it was him...his belief system..I listened to what he was saying in his debates, I read his books...the company he kept. I just didnt align with him.
I thought I liked Colin Powell for Pres till I saw what he had to say when Obama ran...and well I would never vote for that guy either.
I have to vote...thought about sitting out...but how could I complain if I dont vote? regardless of choices. Someone doesnt feel that way...fine with me...but for me personally its my duty to vote....Ive voted dem rep...independents...I have no party allegiance....so its not "my guys" it just happens to be who I'm voting for and have voted for since 08.
I'd make a sig bet with you about this election but I'm probably not going to be here long enough for you to pay up on the bet
I cant see how in the world Hillary wins...she is the epitome of everything people hate about politics...but I also thought Obama would lose his second term...until freaking Romney got the bid...here nor there I was wrong...might be about this to but I just dont see it...what a pile of crap to choose from though...on both sides.
Thanks for the response...other then you saying "you guys"....Maybe youre right...I just dont see it.
Rocket I dont care what any poll says...Bern has no chance in hell...if he was 30yrs younger...maybe he would have a shot before he died...but as of now, no way..and I dont care how many polls I read from now till the election comes.
That is an obvious jab at Donald Trump…on behalf of Sam the Eagle I don't appreciate you insulting him like that! Sam deserves much more respect than that!
I can't support Trump. He is a blowhard for sure. And I dislike how the democrats have greased the path for Hillary. If there was a better democratic alternative Hillary would be in the same boat as Jeb... There is an equal amount af Clinton fatigue as there is Bush fatigue. There is no way that she could win the nomination against other democrats.
Sanders is a independent, that states he is a social democrat, and for the purpose of the election is the best competition that could be arranged for Hillary. It is a farce.
Have the debate on now, seems like they are letting Hillary answer questions that Bernie gets skipped on and O'malley has hardly spoken since I turned it on.
Did you guys see her? All dolled up on stage? Looking like a diamond in the rough? I thought I was finally over her but... There she was, darling Sarah yelling... "Great Gobbely Goop!" "Vote Fer TRUMP!!!"
I can only be grateful for having lived long enough to witness these Primaries!
The fact you had hope should be what's disappointing you. She was clearly a nut job from day one. I can't believe anyone had expectations of her to be anything else.
Lets see some of the Liberals he works his magic with.
Not sure any exist on YouTube. I can't really say if he's even done any with 'liberals.' Not sure if it's intentional or that he just hasn't gotten around to doing any more mashups.
Additionally, I could also say this- I'm not at all certain his motivations are political in nature. As a musician, I appreciated the skill with which he executed his improvs. He seems to have chosen his subjects based on how much inflection their voices carry. Truth be told, I'd love to hear him work with lots of others, no matter who he uses as his template. When it comes to party politics, we musos are a pretty apolitical bunch. (Stop right there! DO NOT mistake "Pop stars" for real musicians...)
Churchill would be cool. Teddy R Joe Biden would be tons of fun.
Billary would bore me... her delivery is way too flat.
I'll keep an eye and ear out for any new ones he may drop. Until then, check you inbox for the Bill O... it's hilarious!
This had me so angry, but laughing at the same time. Sarah Palin, you got the audacity to blame your drunk, woman-beating low life you call a son domestic assault charges on Obama?
To say that his PTSD, which he went to Iraq in 2008, which was BEFORE Obama even took office, is somehow the president's fault? that some how, Obama is to blame for the reason your son doesn't feel respected, and thus was drove to beat up his girlfriend?
Trump might have had a slim shot of the presidency. he has none, now. The republican party; the party of christians, the party of family values, the family of good morals and taking accountability for their actions...
Now support the very person that goes against pretty much all of your values.
Your presidential nominee has been married 3 times. "til death do you part" means what to him? He proposes illegal and unconstitutional crap like banning all muslims. he's says derogatory things about latinos. he says sexist things constantly, even to a fellow presidential nominee. He's sexist, racist, and xenophobic.
Who is THEN endorsed by one of the worst public families in the media, the Palins. Srah, and her husband Todd, already with affair scandals and such, followed by a Daughter who got pregnant as a teenager out of wedlock, paid to preach to kids about abstinence, and AGAIN gets pregnant out of wedlock to a different guy.
And last but not least, a son who is being charged with assault for beating up his girlfriend.
Lets make this perfectly clear. if the Palins weren't a rich white family, you'd be labeling them as just another welfare family.
when you think of a typical welfare mom, single with kids, Palin's daughters picture is right next to that definition.
Her son's mugshot will be in the newspaper tomorrow. typical criminal face.
Party of family values?
**takes out binoculars** where? where? i don't see it.
i see two families that belong on reality TV on the MTV or VH1 channel. i can't believe how to the older generations talks trash about my generation and what we watch, and how social media is, and blah blah blah.....
yet you guys sit there and back a family that belongs on shows you talk trash about the most.
Sarah Palin will kill any chance Trump thought he had.
Hilary continues to give you guys ammo cans after ammo cans so you can gun her AND the democratic party down with.
but instead of taking the kill shot, you guys constantly elect over, and over, and over again to take the SUICIDE shot straight to the face.
instead of championing on your enemies mistakes, you guys instead find ways to TOP those mistakes, with even crazier nonsense!!
Bernie sanders gives you plenty to shotgun blast him with.
Hilary has given you guys ammo to blast her with since the start of her political career.
but THIS is what you guys chose to elect to do instead?
I wanna know, guys. give me an explanation.
whats going on with your party? you guys aren't sniffing the white house. you aren't going to win. what went wrong? when did you guys become so far to the right? what swung y'all to the extreme right?
The democrats, when it boils down to it suck.
but when the majority of the country rather smell like piss than crap, that should tell you something about the state of the GOP, not just politics in general.
Many of our Veterans have returned from war with PTSD and I feel for them. I cut them some slack when they are out of line because I know they are not always themselves and often say or do some crazy stuff.
I wish them all good luck in getting the help they need as they work their way through hard times.
To use their suffering in order to make a political point is not good.
A major research institution has just announced the discovery of the densest element yet known to science. The new element has been named Pelosium. Pelosium has one neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons, and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 311.
These particles are held together by dark forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons.
The symbol of Pelosium is PU.
Pelosium's mass actually increases over time, as morons randomly interact with various elements in the atmosphere and become assistant deputy neutrons within the Pelosium molecule, leading to the formation of isodopes.
This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientist to believe that Pelosium is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as Critical Morass.
When catalyzed with money, Pelosium activates CNNadnausium, an element that radiates orders of magnitude more energy, albeit as incoherent noise, since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons as Pelosium.
“My son, like so many others — they come back a bit different,” Palin said at a rally in Tulsa, Okla., Wednesday. “They come back hardened.”
Is Sarah Palin telling me that she didn't expect war to change her son? Warhawks are crazy.
You can think you know how your kids will change when they go in the military or go away to college.. but it can still surprise you when you actually see it.
And last but not least, a son who is being charged with assault for beating up his girlfriend.
Lets make this perfectly clear. if the Palins weren't a rich white family, you'd be labeling them as just another welfare family.
Good, he's facing charges.....if he was Bill Clinton, and he committed multiple acts of sexual assault, millions of lemmings would come his defense and do everything they could to demean the alleged victims and portray them as money grubbing trailer whores... including the woman who may very well be our next President... you know, the one who said when women cry rape, they should be believed... unless her husband is the accused.
I have a question for you guys who are really into the political stuff.
I am not. I don't vote, and I hate politicians.
But I still hear soundbites from the candidates, as well as see stories posted via twitter and other outlets..
So do you think there is a push, maybe a silent one, from the left FOR Donald Trump to win the Republican nomination?
I just figure that Donald Trump could win the Republication nomination, but I don't honestly think he can win a presidential election. I don't think he will get any votes via democrats, and he probably will lose some via republicans... It's just a feeling I get.
In other words, a Donald Trump on the republican bill would all but seal a democratic win. So as someone who is a supporter of the democratic side, wouldn't you want the Donald up there because he's just not taken seriously by even a lot of people from the right.
I will give you my non political opinion on this matter.
We have just had 8 years of a Democrat President so history and the odds say we will follow it with a Republican.
I will be surprised if Hillary Clinton is not indicted over the Email issue. General Petraeus had to resign over far less. As the facts continue to come out, she may be gone.
So in the end, the American People will have to choose between the Democrats, one who has a lot of legal baggage hanging over her head and the other who is an admitted Socialist and the Republicans, who have clean records for the most part and will be able to challenge the Democrats on issues of trustworthiness, being connected to the previous Presidents agenda, and on Patriotism due to the fact that many older Americans see Socialism as an enemy of the United States.
I believe without a doubt our next President will be Republican.
As a liberal and dmocratic supporter, trump or Cruz winning the republican nomination is like a gift from God.
I've said this over and over and over again, we view the republicans as racist, sexist, and xenophobic. The WORLD, thanks to the Republican Party, views America as racist, sexist, and xenophobic.
Fair description or not, the reality is that the republicans have to battle that perception from everybody before they even BEGIN to debate policy.
So they decide to nominate a guy who represents the three worst qualities of that?
Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you.
As a matter of fact, my opinion also comes from guys that, even though I don't agree with hardly, represent conservatives. Real conservatives.
That's YTown and DC. I'm not sure DC's stance on trump, but YTown already said he won't be voting for him.
The real conservatives? They aren't gonna vote for him. But see, real conservatives are called RINOs today by the far right.
Then you got 40, who tries to make an unbiased opinion, then goes off to say that the republicans have a relatively clean record?
Lol.
That tells you all you need to know, bro.
So yes, us democrats are estatic, because the GOP just handed us the WH for another 4 years.
Bill Maher has pointed out that many of Trump's positions on various subjects seem pretty liberal. He mentioned Trump being after the hedge funds, not liking the too big to fail banks or wall street. He also wants tariffs on foreign made goods to level the playing field for US manufacturing. He's also not opposed to raising the taxes on the rich (at least he say's he's not).
Take away his wingnut speeches and he might be a closet liberal! lol
Republicans, who have clean records for the most part and will be able to challenge the Democrats on issues of trustworthiness
Donald’s most famous building, the Trump Tower, instead of building it as a steel girder building, he chose to build it out of concrete, a 58-story—he says 68 stories—a 58-story concrete building built by a company called A&S [S&A Concrete] construction. And who owned [S&A] construction? "Fat Tony" Salerno, the head of the Genovese crime family in New York, and Paul Gambino—I’m sorry, Paul Castellano, the head of the Gambino family. Trump used the same company for other projects that he built, even though they were more costly than using steel girder construction.
When he tore down the Bonwit Teller building to make way for the Trump Tower, he had about a dozen union house wreckers on the site and about 150 Polish workers, all of them illegally in the country, who he paid $4 to $5 an hour and who did not have hard hats. And Trump claimed in a lawsuit that he had no idea that these workers were there in any way other than an appropriate way. And a federal judge mocked him, pointing out that they were easy to spot because they were the ones who had no hard hats.
Donald’s personal helicopter pilot, Joseph Weichselbaum, was a convicted major cocaine and marijuana trafficker whose criminal case landed before, of all people, Judge Maryanne Trump Barry, Donald Trump’s sister. Now, Judge Barry recused herself, but she also, in the process, made every other judge in the federal system aware of the sensitivity of this particular case.
And in addition, Donald Trump has been found in the past repeatedly to have not paid people he owed money to. It is a standard business practice of his. He has let people think that he fixed Wollman Rink in Central Park for free. He was paid $10 million, but some of his contractors were never paid, because he told them this was a public service project. And he’s been sued innumerable times for racial discrimination of his businesses. He’s been found to have engaged in racial discrimination. He’s not at all who he appears to be.
As a matter of fact, my opinion also comes from guys that, even though I don't agree with hardly, represent conservatives. Real conservatives.
That's YTown and DC. I'm not sure DC's stance on trump, but YTown already said he won't be voting for him.
I'm extremely disappointed I didn't make your short list of conservatives.
There's at least 4 people i left off the list.
i mentioned YTown because he's the most recent one i can think of that said he isn't voting for Trump.
i mentioned DC cause we PM on the regular about certain things.
off the top of my head, it goes:
YTown DC Arch Pit Tulsa FHB Purp and MAYBE Devil.
the far/extreme right is:
40 Mill creek Erik Arps Riley Eve
now, they might go "you're wrong swish, i'm not far right"
however, since actions speak louder than words, everything they post, especially when they decide to have a blast attacking me, screams far right.
and for the record, i never, and will never deny that i'm a lefty. i see a lot of both sides of the fence, but my personal ideology always ends up being left. not far left, but not exactly center left.
i've just accepted that. i'm a tree hugging, save the world, kumbya, take care of the man/woman beside you liberal.
all wells.
if i left you off the all star list of conservatives, it's because i'm not sure of your position.
oh, and let the record show, that this list is about 70-80% of EE, proving once and for all that this is a conservative dominated board.
As a matter of fact, my opinion also comes from guys that, even though I don't agree with hardly, represent conservatives. Real conservatives.
That's YTown and DC. I'm not sure DC's stance on trump, but YTown already said he won't be voting for him.
I am not a huge fan of Trump, though I do understand his appeal to a lot of people.
If you put me in a booth with a gun to my head and the choices were Hillary or Trump, I'm voting Trump all day every day. But that's a long way from me being excited about it.
If he wins the nomination, I'll be curious to see if/how he moves back toward the center a little. Every candidate does it, hit the fringe to win the primary, move back to the center for the general election... You watch, Hillary will start to distance herself from Obama some if she wins the nomination. She knows she has the fringe left wrapped up..
Now that Trump has Palin on his team I wonder if he'll try to get the bachelor or the osbournes to endorse him next? I figure the kardashians are probably already locked in with hillary.
Now that Trump has Palin on his team I wonder if he'll try to get the bachelor or the osbournes to endorse him next? I figure the kardashians are probably already locked in with hillary.
Phil Robertson has already endorsed Ted Cruz... since Bobby Jindal is out and all...
Now that Trump has Palin on his team I wonder if he'll try to get the bachelor or the osbournes to endorse him next? I figure the kardashians are probably already locked in with hillary.
Phil Robertson has already endorsed Ted Cruz... since Bobby Jindal is out and all...
At least he has the Walmart shopper vote locked up.
As a liberal and dmocratic supporter, trump or Cruz winning the republican nomination is like a gift from God.
Coming from an agnostic, that's funny!
Lol, don't gotta be in a set religion to get a gift from God.
My Obamacare insurance premium just damn near doubled, for only making a few thousand dollars more. Just like my taxes doubled, only for making a few thousand dollars more. Just like they planned, all this is only coming to light (for you, we told you it would be like this years ago-on the old board) towards the end of his time in office. Was I you, I wouldn't be thinking this is a lock at all. Your supposed lock for the White House let 4 people die (no, we won't let it go, just like we wouldn't let it go if it was you) in Libya and just like 40 said, she's got more against her than General Petraeus did. If there is any justice left in this country she will be indicted for her crimes and at the bare minimum get enough of a slap on the wrist to just go the hell away already.
As a matter of fact, my opinion also comes from guys that, even though I don't agree with hardly, represent conservatives. Real conservatives.
That's YTown and DC. I'm not sure DC's stance on trump, but YTown already said he won't be voting for him.
I'm extremely disappointed I didn't make your short list of conservatives.
There's at least 4 people i left off the list.
i mentioned YTown because he's the most recent one i can think of that said he isn't voting for Trump.
i mentioned DC cause we PM on the regular about certain things.
off the top of my head, it goes:
YTown DC Arch Pit Tulsa FHB Purp and MAYBE Devil.
the far/extreme right is:
40 Mill creek Erik Arps Riley Eve
now, they might go "you're wrong swish, i'm not far right"
however, since actions speak louder than words, everything they post, especially when they decide to have a blast attacking me, screams far right.
and for the record, i never, and will never deny that i'm a lefty. i see a lot of both sides of the fence, but my personal ideology always ends up being left. not far left, but not exactly center left.
i've just accepted that. i'm a tree hugging, save the world, kumbya, take care of the man/woman beside you liberal.
all wells.
if i left you off the all star list of conservatives, it's because i'm not sure of your position.
oh, and let the record show, that this list is about 70-80% of EE, proving once and for all that this is a conservative dominated board.
Unfortunately because I'm not an extremist socially I get labeled as a RINO. I've just never been a big fan of the theocracy certain conservatives try to claim this country should be based on. I don't "support" gay marriage, but it doesn't bother me. I don't "support" abortions, but they're not something that affect my everyday life. However, because I disagree with these 2 issues I'm not "hardcore" enough.
Also I don't hype Trump as the next Reagan which is considered blasphemy.
For the record, ever since getting in to law enforcement I've actually gotten more Libertarian in my political and social beliefs. I guess you COULD call me conservative to the extent that I believe our gov't and country would be better off moving back toward a Constitutional gov't.
Trump is the GOP version of Obama. When Obama ran, he didn't run on anything actual substantive issue. It was all about taking advantage of peoples' emotions. It's why you had so many idiots thinking he was going to pay their bills for them. It was frankly a near masterful campaign because he would make all these speeches and promises where he let the voters fill in the blanks as to what those promises were.
Trump has also tapped in to emotion, this being anger. Republican voters are tired of having establishment chosen candidates trotted out in front of them, an establishment that spends more time colluding with Dems behind closed doors than they do representing their constituency. McCain threw the election (aside from being a crappy candidate). Romney COULD have won, except he never took the time to try and shake off the fact that he was the establishment candidate. I think many more people would have voted for him, but they were more turned off by the fact that GOP picked the candidate for them. And as for Palin... she's not actually a bad endorsement. Support for her has cooled a bit the closer she and her family have become to reality tv characters, but don't forget: Palini as VP had 10x as many people coming out for her rallies than McCain did.
So yes Swish, a Trump nomination would go a long way in breaking up the GOP. But in that would be the worst thing for Dems because it means they wouldn't be getting away with as much as they have in the past.
The problem I see with Trump supporters is that they assume he's going to be sticking it to the Dems and liberals left in right if he gets in office. I just don't see that happening. I think it much more likely he ends up being more like Boehner and McConnell, leadership that caved more than they ever should have.
I know the Dem talking point is that a Trump nomination is a gift to Dems... but I just don't see how any Dem can say that Hillary or Bernie are quality candidates?
Bernie is pandering to frankly fringe type groups (and by fringe I don't necessarily mean weirdos, just smaller, specific issue voters). His lack of understanding of basic economics coupled with his promises of a free unicorn to every man, woman, and child I don't think well resonate with moderate Dems.
Hillary... just on her own merits, she has no business holding the office of President.
Right now some pundits are suggesting that Trump support may actually be under polled. Even if that is the case, if Trump were to get the nomination, I don't think he carries the same support.
My prediction is that if it comes down to Trump vs. Hillary OR Bernie... we'll see one of the lowest overall turnouts for the election that we've ever seen.
I think I have to look left to see most of those folks.
I think I am somewhere in the middle of these 2 lists and sometimes more toward either side depending on the subject at hand. Trump and his "deal making" may be just what this country needs? If Hillary gets indicted and the Dems declare Bernie a "whaco" and anoint Biden at the convention, Trump's victory margin would narrow and may play to the eventual deal making and a little progress.
Because I'm an anti-federalist constitutionalist, I'm far right? Hell, I just want the government to perform as it was meant to, not be a soft cushion for anyone that wants a bennie.
Last election cycle I voted to re-elect our State Attorney General who is a Democrat. He had done a pretty good job and I know a number of republicans/conservatives that voted for him as well. However, as soon as he made it known he was planning on running for Governor, he immediately adopted the talking points and rhetoric of the Dem Party and started basing his actions on political considerations instead of the job he had been doing.
Now that Trump has Palin on his team I wonder if he'll try to get the bachelor or the osbournes to endorse him next? I figure the kardashians are probably already locked in with hillary.
Phil Robertson has already endorsed Ted Cruz... since Bobby Jindal is out and all...
Willie Robertson endorses Donald Trump at Outdoor Sportsman Awards
I never would have imagined you'd get off over imaginary tears that only exist in your own little twisted mind. Why is it that liberals always believe conservatives are all 'butt hurt' when both sides are playing the same game of diplomacy.
Diplomacy: The art of letting someone have something your way.
lol dude you're that mad that I called your far right?
Jeez. That's just my opinion. So you can go off all you want, but at the end of the day, when we roll up our sleeves and get into these threads, there isn't anything remotely center about you.
There might not be anything remotely center about myself, but you don't see me crying about it.
I don't mind being placed on any list. If you look at the issue of guns, I would be placed on the conservative list. When you look at social issues I would be added to the liberal list.
Guys like 40 call it straddling the fence. I believe it's being an independent thinker and not blindly following either parties lines. With guys like Trump in the race, what it is people are following is quite confusing. I think the conservatives call it a flip flopper.
lol dude you're that mad that I called your far right?
Jeez. That's just my opinion. So you can go off all you want, but at the end of the day, when we roll up our sleeves and get into these threads, there isn't anything remotely center about you.
There might not be anything remotely center about myself, but you don't see me crying about it.
You are the true definition of a 'keyboard commando' if you really think you create any anger in me. Mostly I feel frustration with liberals, as even facts won't convince them they are ever wrong. It's almost like dealing with kids that don't listen.
I don't care if you can't see anything center about me, and I'm actually quite happy about that. You see, I have my own beliefs that have been put together after years of hearing different points of view. I have made my decisions on white, black, and shade of grey, and I've stuck with it for a long time.
I don't mind being placed on any list. If you look at the issue of guns, I would be placed on the conservative list. When you look at social issues I would be added to the liberal list.
Guys like 40 call it straddling the fence. I believe it's being an independent thinker and not blindly following either parties lines. With guys like Trump in the race, what it is people are following is quite confusing. I think the conservatives call it a flip flopper.
Finally he admits the Liberal part! That explains your stance on soooo many issues around here. When I referred to you as a Lib, long long ago, you flipped out.
Admitting the problem is the first step to recovery!
I don't mind being placed on any list. If you look at the issue of guns, I would be placed on the conservative list. When you look at social issues I would be added to the liberal list.
Guys like 40 call it straddling the fence. I believe it's being an independent thinker and not blindly following either parties lines. With guys like Trump in the race, what it is people are following is quite confusing. I think the conservatives call it a flip flopper.
Finally he admits the Liberal part! That explains your stance on soooo many issues around here. When I referred to you as a Lib, long long ago, you flipped out.
Admitting the problem is the first step to recovery!
If anything, Pit comes across to me more as a libertarian which is what most of this country SHOULD be. Liberals freely ignore the Constitution while conservatives only embrace it to the extent it backs up their beliefs.
Everybody brushed it off, or explained why they are conservatives. It was actually a decent discussion until you and 40 decided to once again, go off the deep end.
Keyboard commando? Please. You really need to work on your insults better.
No, I always described myself as a moderate and you always called me a fence rider. Would a liberal take my stance on guns?
See, you say different things about posters on different days. You can't even keep track of our own rhetoric.
A moderate will always appear to be either a conservative or a liberal depending on the topic. They're not followers of a party. That's why people like you who try to keep score get so confused. lol
You personally, as in when have you as an individual violated the Constitution? I don't know you on a personal level like that.
But in terms of how many liberals view things and go about them, all the time!
First, anyone who supports Bernie does not support the Constitution. Socialist policies and beliefs run counter to the concepts, reasons, and ideals it was written on.
Second, anyone who believes Obama can enact Executive Orders because Congress doesn't act or doesn't do what he says, doesn't support the Constitution (Separation of Powers) In all fairness, both sides have done it, and Congress as a whole has continuously given over many of it's responsibilities to the Executive Branch. It's just that liberals don't even pretend to hide it.
Third, anyone with even a basic understanding of the Constitution knows that Obamacare is NOT Constitutional. When the Supreme Court deliberates on a case, they base their decisions on the merits of the arguments presented before them. If you don't make a compelling enough argument, the decision doesn't go in your favor. The Justices are not supposed to be in the business of creating the argument for any side, which is what Roberts did. The Obama Admin expressly argued that Obamacare was NOT a tax... yet Roberts ruled that it was.
Tax or not a tax aside, it's still is in stark opposition to the spirit and repeated theme of the Constitution: individual liberty. The mandate in the law that forces every citizen to buy healthcare insurance at the threat of a fine (and ultimately jail time if you don't pay) runs counter to that concept. You guys can deny the massive negative impact it has had so far, but what y'all fail to admit is that you guys have given away a massive amount of our individual freedoms through that mandate. I garuntee that the longer that law stands, it will be used as precedent for the gov't to dictate literally ANYTHING else they want us to do in the name of control.
Fourthly, you NEVER hear liberals refer to the Founding Fathers and their philosophies. They never celebrate the concept of limited gov't (again, the basis of the Constitution) because they believe that the gov't is the answer to all the problems in the world.
Throw in there that the concept of "separation of church and state" that many liberals put out there is based upon a butchered and wholly made up interpretation of what the Constitution actually says.
Liberals have zero problems with curtailing free speech of others, and have even introduced laws in recent years to control it.
I think some of the stuff you mentioned is a bit of a reach.
Name a president that's hasn't made an executive order that doesn't go around the congress?
Don't worry, I'll wait.
The Supreme Court ruled it constitutional.
You're argument is basically boiling down to "its legal, but I don't like it, so it should be unconstitutional."
Come on bro.
Also, and I know you said it first, but let's not act like republicans are all about the constitution either. Cause we know that's a reach. Might need yoga classes for that one.
Also, another thing I need you to do for me:
You're confusing liberals at the civilian level with libberals in DC.
Even I know there's a difference between the real conservatives at the civilian level, and he ones that represent you guys in government.
on the GOP side, the Patriot Act, the National Defense Authorization Act, and using the gov't to prevent gay marriage all run counter to the spirit and principles of the Constitution too
Again, I'm not saying that the GOP hasn't been unconstitutional either... hell, you know why some die hards call Lincoln a Tyrant? It's because he threw journalists in jail for publishing articles about him that he didn't like.
And no, my assertion that Obamacare is unconstitutional is not based on sour grapes.
1) Find anywhere in the Constitution or any of the writings of the Founding Fathers that would support the individual mandate. I'll wait.
2) Second, liberals tend not to be able to see past their own nose (unless it's global warming... then somehow they can see in to the future).. but on a serious note, you DO understand that at one point the Supreme Court ruled slavery and later segregation was Constitutional right?
I'm not of the opinion that any politician represents the people, they all represent themselves and their own interests. Conservative or Liberal.
And that is what happens when We The People abdicate our Constitutional responsibility to be engaged and hold politicians accountable.
It's why I can't support yahoos like the guys in Oregon, no matter how much I think the father and son are getting a raw deal. The Constitution lays out a process to enact change... those guys never even try to get involved via that process, then suddenly think they have a moral right to armed insurrection after claiming "it's all crooked".
You're helping me make a point I've been trying to say for a while now in this board.
The constitution is great. It's the greatest document in the world, other than my daughters birth certificates.
You said at one point the surpremd court ruled slavery as constitutional. Based off the constitution, at THAT time, it was correct.
The point is that the constitution has to evolve with the times. As great as it is, time will always dominate anything we do in life. It has to evolve.
It evolved with slavery and segregation, right?
I have some reservations of a few people on this board, so I will say that you and most of the posters here had no problem with the constitution evolving in that ideology.
Right now, healthcare has to evolve, and part of that is the surpreme court ruling on that.
Not everything that happens you are gonna like. You know how many millions of Americans, how many thousands of Americans were pissed off that slavery was abolished as well as segregation?
There will always be a winner and loser. Right now, my ideology is winning, yours is losing. From 2001-2009, your political ideology was winning, mine was losing.
One thing I do find odd. The GOP seems to really like mandated auto insurance but not mandated health care.
How can people pick and choose when mandated insurance should or should not be constitutional? To me, they're either both unconstitutional or both constitutional.
One thing I do find odd. The GOP seems to really like mandated auto insurance but not mandated health care.
How can people pick and choose when mandated insurance should or should not be constitutional? To me, they're either both unconstitutional or both constitutional.
I'm not taking sides on this, but there IS a difference. With auto insurance, if you wreck me, you'd better have insurance to pay for the damages done to me, or my property.
Health insurance is a touch different.
Yeah, yeah, I get the whole "if you don't have health insurance, it raises the rates of those that do" bit.
Why don't people have health insurance? Because their job doesn't offer it, or they can't afford it. In either case, I'm still paying for it.
Everybody brushed it off, or explained why they are conservatives. It was actually a decent discussion until you and 40 decided to once again, go off the deep end.
Keyboard commando? Please. You really need to work on your insults better.
And you're the one gaining nourishment off of imaginary tears. That's very sad.
I believe it's being an independent thinker and not blindly following either parties lines.
I call it swinging both ways. Some subjects I stand on the far right. Some subjects I stand far left, and some subjects I stand in the middle. I would call it using common sense, but most people never head of it, let alone used it in their lifetime
With the part about witches! And your libby friend Pit!
Have you noticed how awesome Arch is?
And yes, I have noticed how awesome Arch is... in fact, I've gone beyond that... his awesomeness has reached an existential realm where there are no words in either modern nor mystical ancient languages that can ever come close to describing how awesome he is
You're helping me make a point I've been trying to say for a while now in this board.
The constitution is great. It's the greatest document in the world, other than my daughters birth certificates.
You said at one point the surpremd court ruled slavery as constitutional. Based off the constitution, at THAT time, it was correct.
The point is that the constitution has to evolve with the times. As great as it is, time will always dominate anything we do in life. It has to evolve.
It evolved with slavery and segregation, right?
I have some reservations of a few people on this board, so I will say that you and most of the posters here had no problem with the constitution evolving in that ideology.
Right now, healthcare has to evolve, and part of that is the surpreme court ruling on that.
Not everything that happens you are gonna like. You know how many millions of Americans, how many thousands of Americans were pissed off that slavery was abolished as well as segregation?
There will always be a winner and loser. Right now, my ideology is winning, yours is losing. From 2001-2009, your political ideology was winning, mine was losing.
That's life.
Man, I like when we find common ground
You are right, the Constitution does have to evolve from time to time. But that is what the Amendment process is for. The Founding Fathers put that process in there for that very reason. The problem is, many people think that "evolve" means that you can take the same words, but interpret them differently to fit whatever narrative, and that's not the case.
And that's why court appointments shouldn't be based upon whether or not a judge interprets the Constitution with liberal or conservative view points. Judges should be appointed based on their ability to apply the Constitution the way it is written.
Again, as much as I'm not a fan of the Fed Gov't, the fact that those yahoos in Oregon don't attempt to use that process is why I could never get behind them.
One thing I do find odd. The GOP seems to really like mandated auto insurance but not mandated health care.
How can people pick and choose when mandated insurance should or should not be constitutional? To me, they're either both unconstitutional or both constitutional.
Health insurance vs. auto insurance is a false comparison because mandated auto insurance is not the same thing ass mandated health insurance.
You only need auto insurance if you drive.
You don't have to drive. In fact, millions of people who live in New York don't drive, and there for don't have auto insurance.
On the flip side, I have to have health insurance even if I'm one of those people who never goes to the hospital (and I am).
The only way you can say the two are the same is if everyone who doesn't have a car still has to have an auto insurance policy.
I don't deny that there are some differences between auto insurance and health care. But in the end they are both "mandated insurance". It does seem people pick and choose when mandated insurance is okay and when it's not.
I believe it's being an independent thinker and not blindly following either parties lines.
I call it swinging both ways. Some subjects I stand on the far right. Some subjects I stand far left, and some subjects I stand in the middle. I would call it using common sense, but most people never head of it, let alone used it in their lifetime
That's the way I see it GM. And as you can see, there's at least one poster who feels if you don't walk the party lines, your one of the enemy. I find that type of thinking very sad.
And what is so funny about that type of thinking is it actually turns people away from their party rather than helps gain them any support.
I don't deny that there are some differences between auto insurance and health care. But in the end they are both "mandated insurance". It does seem people pick and choose when mandated insurance is okay and when it's not.
Part of the difference is that if you get in an accident and it's your fault, your insurance is more for the person you got in a wreck with than for you. Typically, why you need health insurance is more often than not through no one's actions. You just get sick from time to time.
Respectfully, it's a little more than "some" differences:
Auto Insurance: The State says your vehicle has to be insured so that should you be at fault in a collision, you have the financial backing to take care of the other guy. If you choose to not have a vehicle, the gov't doesn't punish you.
Home Owner's Insurance: Wanna buy that house? Mortgage company says a condition of them spotting you the money, you need insurance to protect what is basically THEIR investment until the loan is paid off. If you choose not to buy the house, the gov't doesn't punish you.
Now those aren't the best options... but you still have freedom to make those choices, and that is the point. Freedom doesn't mean every option you have is a good one.
That's the way I see it GM. And as you can see, there's at least one poster who feels if you don't walk the party lines, your one of the enemy. I find that type of thinking very sad.
And what is so funny about that type of thinking is it actually turns people away from their party rather than helps gain them any support.
So silly you are.
Do you think that one poster follows Party lines and does not think for himself? Does not that one poster complain about the RINO's in the Party he finds most closely supports his own way of thinking? Does he not complain the Party is drifting away from where it used to stand?
Yes he does and he is fighting within his favorite Party to change it from Democrat Light to Republican again.
Perhaps it is easy for you to waver on your feelings about Abortion and the wholesale slaughter by mothers of their children.
Perhaps it is easy for you to waver on what is a sin to a Christian and what is not.
That poster you speak of seems to KNOW where he stands on these issues and he sees wavering as collusion to evil.
I know that I favor the Republican Party because it more closely fits My way of thinking.
Perhaps it is easy for you to waver on your feelings about Abortion and the wholesale slaughter by mothers of their children.
My beliefs have never changed. I'm against abortion. However, making my religious and moral beliefs to be imposed on the masses is not my goal.
Quote:
Perhaps it is easy for you to waver on what is a sin to a Christian and what is not.
I've never wavered about that. Yet once again, my moral and religious beliefs are between myself and God. Each one of us will have to answer to God in the end. Trying to inflict my moral and religious beliefs on the entire nation is not my goal.
Quote:
That poster you speak of seems to KNOW where he stands on these issues and he sees wavering as collusion to evil.
I know that I favor the Republican Party because it more closely fits My way of thinking.
I also know where I stand on those issues. The funny thing is, on many issues we agree as to our beliefs. The main difference we often have is you believe that inflicting your beliefs on an entire nation is your right. I don't share that belief.
I'm fully aware that we are all sinners. Yes, even you. I don't feel I have the right to inflict my life choices and my version of morality into law that effects and impacts people who do not believe like myself.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
Just keeping it to yourself is selfish and serves only yourself.
I sure am glad my Lord didn't just keep it to Himself.
And this is why people are so willing to believe in the bastardized concept of the separation of church and state and think that electing a person open about there faith automatically means they are trying to impose a religious Order.
It's really not. I'm just saying that invoking laws that agree with my religious beliefs isn't my top priority. It's not nearly as impactful as to whom I vote for than some other things.
It's really not. I'm just saying that invoking laws that agree with my religious beliefs isn't my top priority. It's not nearly as impactful as to whom I vote for than some other things.
It's really not. I'm just saying that invoking laws that agree with my religious beliefs isn't my top priority. It's not nearly as impactful as to whom I vote for than some other things.
My relationship with God is my #1 priority in my life, and I believe that God would never want me to casually stand by and accept things like abortion, for example. Never. I believe that we either take a stand on such issues, or simply go along with the world, offering our passive approval for these things which I believe to be sins. (based on the teachings of the Bible and Jesus Christ)
It's like Christians saying that they "don't want to push their views on anyone else". Well, the Bible tells Christians to take the good news of Christ into the world, and the word used by Christ in the Bible actually means "to herald", so we are to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, not to quietly hide our faith. That's not forcing our beliefs on anyone, as the choice to believe, or not, is between them and God. Warning people of God's law, and the consequences of violating it, is not judging them. These are just propositions the world has created to try and keep Christians quiet.
God gave Christians grace, and forgiveness, through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself said that he came to this earth, not to abolish the law, (10 Commandments) but to fulfill them. He then increased the difficulty inherent in obeying the Law, taking a Commandment against adultery, and saying that anyone who lusts after another commits adultery. Given that level of difficulty, no one can be saved by the Law, but only condemned by it. We are saved through Faith in, and inherent obedience to, Jesus Christ. No Christian will ever live a sin free life, but we should allow God into our lives, turning our lives over to Him, and allowing Him to lead us. We will never be perfect while in this life, but we cannot be Christians while also being in open revolt against God.
In this country, we are more and more accepting of more and more sin as normal, and even positive. Even Christians are doing so. Of course, many who call themselves Christians never attend church, and absolutely never crack their Bibles to read what the God they profess to follow says. They create their own god, in their own mind, never realizing that they are committing idolatry, which is the sin God hates above all else. It is Commandment #1, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me". Heck, I did it for much of my entire adult life. I created my own god, who thought as I wanted him to. My god would accept everything I wanted him to, and I could even use a few, cherry picked verses to try to justify my sin of idolatry. I was some kind of lukewarm pseudo-Christian. I was on course to be condemned, because I had never really committed my life to Jesus Christ. I listened to, and obeyed, the world, instead of listening to the Lord.
Thank God He put so many roadblocks in my path, that He forced me to slow down, and see what I was doing. Thank God He sent me on a different path than the one I had chosen, and sent me to the right church, where I was encouraged to read my Bible daily. Thank God He saved me. He did so by opening my heart, and in part by putting the right people in my path. He did not do so by putting people in my life who said that everything anyone wanted to do was perfectly fine. I didn't do it. God did, and He did so by working on my heart, and by working through people I met.
I also have to wonder, if we are Christians, then what could possibly hold a higher priority in our lives than our faith? What could possibly be more important than obeying what our God has told us to do? If we are Christians, should we retreat, meekly, as the world increases in sin and corruption, or should we speak out, trying to bring others to Christ? I know what the Bible tells me. Doesn't yours tell you the same thing?
My Bible tells me how to live my life. It also tells me not to be of this world. It also tells me that the sick need healing, that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
My Bible tells me a lot of things. Things that neither political party walks lock step in line with. I find believing otherwise is naïve.
My Bible tells me how to live my life. It also tells me not to be of this world. It also tells me that the sick need healing, that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
My Bible tells me a lot of things. Things that neither political party walks lock step in line with. I find believing otherwise is naïve.
The other part of this, is that many, many people interpret the same religion differently, or have a completely different religion.
To expect people who don't share in the same belief to adhere to your religious "laws" is absurd. It's all great and good if it's your religion, or interpretation of it, that is the one ruling the day, but things become much different when it is not. The short-sighted should never be in charge.
My Bible tells me how to live my life. It also tells me not to be of this world. It also tells me that the sick need healing, that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
My Bible tells me a lot of things. Things that neither political party walks lock step in line with. I find believing otherwise is naïve.
The other part of this, is that many, many people interpret the same religion differently, or have a completely different religion.
Thank you.
I've harped on this in the past. People on this board can deny this ugly fact, but different denominations believe in different paths of getting to heaven.
My Bible tells me how to live my life. It also tells me not to be of this world. It also tells me that the sick need healing, that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
My Bible tells me a lot of things. Things that neither political party walks lock step in line with. I find believing otherwise is naïve.
The other part of this, is that many, many people interpret the same religion differently, or have a completely different religion.
Thank you.
I've harped on this in the past. People on this board can deny this ugly fact, but different denominations believe in different paths of getting to heaven.
Not really, your various(x∞) denominations may have different practices or rituals but the core teachings are all the same. Faith in Jesus Christ as the sacrifice for your sins is what gets you from here to there.
Another thing you all forget on a regular basis-we actually believe in heaven and hell, therefore we're doing what we can to convince you because we'd rather you were in heaven than hell.
Ted, I don't recall anyone saying you shouldn't be able to do what you think is right or share your opinions. You can shout from every mountain top your beliefs, but others can also.
What we are talking about is letting those views shape the laws.
Believe me, there are good number of people who think your views are wrong and sending you straight to hell.....and I'm pretty sure, you don't want them making laws for you.
Faith and just believing Jesus exists isn't enough to get you Heaven. That's the point I'm trying to get at. There are people who strongly disagree with you.
Faith and just believing Jesus exists isn't enough to get you Heaven. That's the point I'm trying to get at. There are people who strongly disagree with you.
Believe me, if I weren't casually popping in here to comment while working on a paint estimate I could go all Y-town and explain it like he does…
But since he does such a great job I'll let his comments cover that.
Ted, I don't recall anyone saying you shouldn't be able to do what you think is right or share your opinions. You can shout from every mountain top your beliefs, but others can also.
What we are talking about is letting those views shape the laws.
Believe me, there are good number of people who think your views are wrong and sending you straight to hell.....and I'm pretty sure, you don't want them making laws for you.
Well, I can't think of a law that a moral person would make I wouldn't agree with whether they agree with my theological leanings or not but people are making laws now I don't agree with and people of faith are being discriminated against and getting fined 6 figures for following what they think is right.
Muslim truck drivers sue because they were fired for not delivering beer because it was against their religious beliefs and get awarded $240k.
Christian baker gets fined for not making a cake for a gay couple.
I don't think the Muslim drivers should've been fired, but I also don't believe the Christian baker should've been fined.
Faith and just believing Jesus exists isn't enough to get you Heaven. That's the point I'm trying to get at. There are people who strongly disagree with you.
You're right, it isn't. Even Satan "believes in" the existence of Jesus Christ. Just believing that Jesus lived is not enough.
Faith in Jesus, and accepting Him as Lord and Savior is what it takes. Man cannot do anything, himself, to make it to heaven. It takes that total faith in Jesus Christ, repentance of sin, that willingness to turn one's life over to Him completely. It takes acceptance that we are each helpless to avoid condemnation and hell without Him.
Back to Trump, since he is the topic of this thread, one thing that really concerned me was when he described himself as a Christian, but when they asked him why he thinks that he is going to heaven, he spoke not of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and Him being Lord and Savior ..... and not of repentance of his sins, but rather Trump rattled off a long list of "things" he has done .... good works and such .... and that is not what gets a man to heaven. Unfortunately, this seems to be the idea that a lot of people who call themselves Christian have. Works do not get a man to heaven. The whole overarching lesson of the Old Testament is that man is completely and totally incapable of "earning" his salvation through his own works.
He said things like Why do I have to have to repent if i don't make mistakes, I try not to make mistakes where I have to ask for forgiveness, and I work hard and am an honorable person.
He also said something along the lines of I think that repentance is terrific, but why should I have to repent if I don't do things that are wrong, or something similar. It was, if nothing else, a very poorly worded explanation of Christian beliefs, and, unfortunately, one that many people today hold.
Good works can be a sign of a life given to Jesus Christ, but they are not the reason for salvation. Belief in Christ (which, has to include acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior, and repentance of sin) is the only path to salvation, at least if one believes the Bible.
So if the Obama stock market continues it's downward spiral, I might still be working when I'm 85...
If the stock market is making you worry about retirement then your funds aren't balanced. Don't get me wrong, I've got most of my long term investments in large-cap/growth stocks. It's stung a bit to see the losses over the last 6 months. Yet I made over $2 per share in dividends last month, so I'm glad I didn't go to cash/money market last summer. I have 30-35 years before I touch these funds so I'm all about maximizing my returns. That means sucking it up for some bad years, but the dividend yield softens the blow considerably. Even with these losses we'd have a long way to fall before we'd be at 09 levels.
IMO you should limit your stock market exposure to funds you won't touch for 10+ years. Ladder the funds you need for the upcoming decade into municipal bonds or CDs. I like Muni bonds/zero coupon bonds because the default risk is low, and you don't pay taxes on them. Sure the interest rate might only be 2-5% (unless you go with a long note) but that's tax free interest. That makes it worth 4-7% to me. This runs a bit counter to the rule of thumb (the percent of bond holdings should match your age) but that's because I think the rule of thumb is too conservative.
Is it Obama's fault oil prices are so low? Just asking because i don't know why oil prices are so low. It is driving down the stock market.
Oil prices are low because we are using less, we are producing more in the US, and from what I've heard... certain middle eastern nations have been flooding the market trying to drive prices down and drive competition out of business...
Is it Obama's fault? Most people would consider it a good thing that oil prices are low.. at least those touting Obama's accomplishments always tell me that on FB...
Is it Obama's fault oil prices are so low? Just asking because i don't know why oil prices are so low. It is driving down the stock market.
Oil prices are low because we are using less, we are producing more in the US, and from what I've heard... certain middle eastern nations have been flooding the market trying to drive prices down and drive competition out of business...
Is it Obama's fault? Most people would consider it a good thing that oil prices are low.. at least those touting Obama's accomplishments always tell me that on FB...
OK thanks. I wasn't sure. :-) I guess people retiring right about now wouldn't like it.
I wonder how much lower the gas prices would be if the keystone pipeline joint got approved.
I dunno much about that project. I do know people were complaining that they would have to give up land for it, but it was my understanding the government would've paid them nicely for it?
Can you roll it into an IRA/401k? It's not a horrible fund but I try to match the market at least, and that fund runs quite a bit low. If you don't have an IRA open one up so you can enjoy tax deferred compounding.
Is it Obama's fault oil prices are so low? Just asking because i don't know why oil prices are so low. It is driving down the stock market.
Oil prices are low because we are using less, we are producing more in the US, and from what I've heard... certain middle eastern nations have been flooding the market trying to drive prices down and drive competition out of business...
Is it Obama's fault? Most people would consider it a good thing that oil prices are low.. at least those touting Obama's accomplishments always tell me that on FB...
Yep, oil prices are low because the Saudis want to bankrupt the fracking industry before it destroys their hold on world energy supplies.Watch when some of the fracking companies go bankrupt. Prices will return to "normal", and no one will dare start up a new fracking company, because the Saudis could easily do the dame thing once again.
Not a problem having two going. I have a 401k + IRA and other accounts going on. But I think you could do better picking your own fund than the return you're getting from that govt picked fund. Just my 2 cents (albeit compounding :))
Is it Obama's fault oil prices are so low? Just asking because i don't know why oil prices are so low. It is driving down the stock market.
Oil prices are low because we are using less, we are producing more in the US, and from what I've heard... certain middle eastern nations have been flooding the market trying to drive prices down and drive competition out of business...
Is it Obama's fault? Most people would consider it a good thing that oil prices are low.. at least those touting Obama's accomplishments always tell me that on FB...
Yep, oil prices are low because the Saudis want to bankrupt the fracking industry before it destroys their hold on world energy supplies.Watch when some of the fracking companies go bankrupt. Prices will return to "normal", and no one will dare start up a new fracking company, because the Saudis could easily do the dame thing once again.
Were I president, I would, for the sake of national security buy oil from the Saudi's to fuel the American car. I would also buy from the tracking companies in order to stockpile for safe keeping. Y'know, just in case.
Is it Obama's fault oil prices are so low? Just asking because i don't know why oil prices are so low. It is driving down the stock market.
Oil prices are low because we are using less, we are producing more in the US, and from what I've heard... certain middle eastern nations have been flooding the market trying to drive prices down and drive competition out of business...
Is it Obama's fault? Most people would consider it a good thing that oil prices are low.. at least those touting Obama's accomplishments always tell me that on FB...
Yep, oil prices are low because the Saudis want to bankrupt the fracking industry before it destroys their hold on world energy supplies.Watch when some of the fracking companies go bankrupt. Prices will return to "normal", and no one will dare start up a new fracking company, because the Saudis could easily do the dame thing once again.
They won't be bankrupted, they'll simply shutter their investments and take them out of mothballs at a later time.
The real impact the low prices is having is on Russian oil & gas, which has been at the center of most everything for the past several years.
Sorry man none of those are viable for me...I wish there was someone better but out of the crap to pick from freaking Trump it is for me if he makes it.
Not a trump thumper but I find it actually refreshing (if he sticks to his guns and does not show Thursday), that The Donald is not allowing the media to manipulate and dictate to him. He has participated in six debates. Should give folks all they need to know. But, of course, only those educated/informed voters will even care or be aware of this situation.
Uninformed and uneducated voters will simply wish to "vote for the first woman president", ya know, similar to what occured with Obama.
I don't think that wussed out is the proper term. What he's doing is trying to force the media to not ask questions he doesn't want to address. That he will refuse to deal with anyone who doesn't bend over backwards to be nice to him. Censoring by omission.
It does make one wonder how he'll be able to answer to any criticism as a president. To this point is avenue has been to call anyone who disagrees as, looking for headlines, losers, weak or any other derogatory thing he can think of to discredit them. He's the sticks and stones candidate.
If he refuses to answer to Megan Kelly, how many more people will he refuse to talk to? I do think it's a punk move.
just in case you don't, being racist means you think your color/nationality is superior to another.
please point to examples where obama thinks he's better than whites.
oh wait, he's half white.
point to an example where he thinks he's better than blacks.
oh wait, that doesn't work either.
Well...it may have been in his best interest and that of the country to take Clem's advice and gather all the facts and data prior making a statement or judgement of a situation. Some of those inadequacies and missteps in racial situations during his tenure speak for themselves.
i have biased for turkish people over kurds. that doesn't make me racist.
i have biased for initial comfort for americans over europeans, that doesn't make me racist.
No it doesn't, but when you are the President of the whole United States and you regularly show bias and sympathy toward one group over another... that's not a good thing at all.
he has missteps. name a president that doesn't. but overall, IMO, his handling of racial issues has been about as good as you can get.
people like to say Obama has driven the divide in this country.
and i agree. he has. but you wanna know how, from my perspective?
he's shown that we aren't that far off from the days of jim crow and pre civil rights era. the guy has been called every derogatory name in the book you can say to a black person. people have trashed his wife and called her a gorilla. they have made claims that his daughters will be welfare queens.
he's called a muslim, even though he's christian. the right wing makes it very clear they think he's straight up african...even though he's american, half white. he's shown that minorities are still being treated like second class citizens.
basically, people are pissed that he brought to light the deep ugly truth we thought we hid in the shadows somewhere. nah, it's still alive and well. there is still a lot of hatred in this country.
did you see that Times cover for the May 11th issue? that was a powerful shot, it has "1965" crossed out and they put in 2015.
i read that issue. wow. not a lot has changed. we just got good at masking stuff, but now with the social media boom, all of that is coming back to light.
so yea, i might make missteps too, because i'm tired of seeing my brothers gunned down in the streets.
i have biased for turkish people over kurds. that doesn't make me racist.
i have biased for initial comfort for americans over europeans, that doesn't make me racist.
No it doesn't, but when you are the President of the whole United States and you regularly show bias and sympathy toward one group over another... that's not a good thing at all.
this is what happens when you're the majority in the country. everybody has been taking care of y'all first, so when a brother gets into office, and wants to try and even the playing field, and help the group that struggles the most in this country out, all of sudden biased and racism words fly out the woodwork.
Donald Trump's best gift to America would be to go away in my opinion. I never thought he would make it this far.
I can't possibly understand why people are so enamored with him.
I personally think he's pulling a '92 Ross Perot. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Does it not surprise anyone that he's not receiving genuine scrutiny like most conservative candidates do?
It also wouldn't surprise me that he and the Clinton's (who until he announced gushed over like crazy) had some kind of back room deal in order to grease the skids for Hillary. He takes the fall, she gets elected, he gets favors out the wazoo.
If he's on the ballot when the Ohio primary comes around, I'll be voting for Ted Cruz.
Mainly because most men named Ted are very smart and good looking!
Other than that, the most conservative candidate to come down the pike in a very long time happens to be Ted Cruz.
i have biased for turkish people over kurds. that doesn't make me racist.
i have biased for initial comfort for americans over europeans, that doesn't make me racist.
No it doesn't, but when you are the President of the whole United States and you regularly show bias and sympathy toward one group over another... that's not a good thing at all.
this is what happens when you're the majority in the country. everybody has been taking care of y'all first, so when a brother gets into office, and wants to try and even the playing field, and help the group that struggles the most in this country out, all of sudden biased and racism words fly out the woodwork.
This post proves discussing this with you is pointless.
bro you have to be the most pointless poster to discuss ANYTHING with.
i get better dialogue with 40 half the time.
even with countless guys, especially Clem, trying to explain to you the dynamic of blacks in this country, you just refuse to even understand what we try to tell you.
you give the most simplistic answers to complex problems constantly.
i was half way tempted to make a vid to try and get you guys to understand in this current discussion.
but then i remembered how pointless it was, since the other vids did absolutely nothing.
Well, the group that struggles the most is still struggling after 7 years.
Proof that government can't lift you out of anything. You have to do it yourself.
government isn't suppose to lift, it's suppose to even the playing field.
it sucks Ted. i'm sitting in class at CSU. walking the halls, whites, blacks, hispanics chopping it up with each other. nobody bothering the muslims, muslims aint bothering anybody. everybody getting along and enjoying each other, and complaining that the professor is dragging along.
then i step back into the real world...ya know, all the people that work and the older generations, and i'm just like "man....what the hell happened?" why do we hate each other so much?
bro you have to be the most pointless poster to discuss ANYTHING with.
i get better dialogue with 40 half the time.
even with countless guys, especially Clem, trying to explain to you the dynamic of blacks in this country, you just refuse to even understand what we try to tell you.
you give the most simplistic answers to complex problems constantly.
i was half way tempted to make a vid to try and get you guys to understand in this current discussion.
but then i remembered how pointless it was, since the other vids did absolutely nothing.
The only videos I've seen of you were about your venture into owning properties in Africa, and your vid about ROI.
Sorry you feel that way. I must admit, that hurt a little bit.
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bro you have to be the most pointless poster to discuss ANYTHING with.
I'm also sorry you can't see president Obama's bias.
Y'all see where Trump wussed out of the next debate? tsktsk
I hate Donald freaking Trump but wussed out hardly..
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The guy is afraid of Meghan Kelly.
Do you really believe that??\
Actually yes, to the extent that she of all people is willing to go toe to toe with him. And to piggy back off of the first point, it's not like he's dropping out because he feels he's said enough, and that one more debate is pointless. He's not going because they won't replace her as a moderator, complaining about her being "unfair" to him the last time. The FOX news debates (be it FOX or FOX Business) have had sky high ratings and as a whole have generally ben regarded as well run. To my recollection, Trump is the only candidate who has an issue with any of the FOX moderators. I think on the threshold of the first Primaries, he's afraid she's going to expose him for what he is. He can't take that risk.
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I don't understand why people who complain about RINO's support this guy. notallthere
Well considering the choices...who should I support in your opinion?
That's up to you my friend! Initially I was all about me some Carly Fiorina... until she started getting her War Hawk on... but I think she'd make a really good VP actually.
Yes, I too like the fact that he's been doing something unconventional, and he's been sticking it to the media as a whole. But does any Republican or conservative honestly think Pres Trump will take a stand on any social issues they believe in? I don't. Pres Trump so far has shown no inclination to reduce the size and more importantly the authority of gov't. I predict that if elected Trump will govern in the same vein as guys like Boehner and McConnell and will cave under the disguise of "compromise", two very different things. I think waaaay to many people think that Trump will stick it to the Dems like he has the media.
And my gut feeling is that Trump will only continue the authoritarian way that Obama has approached his time as President.
Trump is as legit a Republican/conservative as Jeb Bush is...
If I had to vote today, I'd probably go Cruz then Rubio?
scroll up, and you'll see where i said he does show biased. but it isn't the same as racism.
now i see why that hurt you. cause it's the truth.
i literally just admitted to him being biased, yet you decide to post that i'm not.
you know what, why is it that when it comes to these discussions, i'm always the only one who has to admit to biased, or having to understand both sides of the argument.
I dunno, I don't think the government is supposed to even the playing field. The field is the field. There are laws on how to play the game. Everyone has the opportunity to join the game and go as far as they can. Do I think it's rigged? Somewhat. Ytown posted that chart awhile back about how our country has the least amount of economic mobility, I wonder why.
I've said it before and I still believe it (and I don't think it would go over as bad as some think), mandatory military service for a minimum of two years.
I served with blacks, whites, learned artillery with one Indian (native American), Mexicans and even one Korean, you know what? There may have been some racism from some towards some, but for the most part we were all friends-some of my best friends were from those days and they were anywhere on the color spectrum you could name.
Serving like that in such close quarters (I don't need to tell you this) goes a hell of a long way to softening or even eliminating preconceived prejudices. Unless you're so skinhead backwards that you won't change-and they'll even eventually die off.
scroll up, and you'll see where i said he does show biased. but it isn't the same as racism.
now i see why that hurt you. cause it's the truth.
i literally just admitted to him being biased, yet you decide to post that i'm not.
you know what, why is it that when it comes to these discussions, i'm always the only one who has to admit to biased, or having to understand both sides of the argument.
yet you guys never have to?
Biased, racist.
What's the diff?
Anyway, discussing this with me is "pointless". THanks for having an open mind.
bro you have to be the most pointless poster to discuss ANYTHING with.
i get better dialogue with 40 half the time.
even with countless guys, especially Clem, trying to explain to you the dynamic of blacks in this country, you just refuse to even understand what we try to tell you.
you give the most simplistic answers to complex problems constantly.
i was half way tempted to make a vid to try and get you guys to understand in this current discussion.
but then i remembered how pointless it was, since the other vids did absolutely nothing.
Ah, Swish, I' m totally disappointed and hurt! I thought that, in your opinion, I may be the most pointless poster for you to discuss anything with. :-(
government isn't suppose to lift, it's suppose to even the playing field.
I'm glad you feel that way but a lot of the poor and the minorities don't. They want lifted. They don't want to start at 0 on a level playing field, they want lifted to 5 so they can start there.
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it sucks Ted. i'm sitting in class at CSU. walking the halls, whites, blacks, hispanics chopping it up with each other. nobody bothering the muslims, muslims aint bothering anybody. everybody getting along and enjoying each other, and complaining that the professor is dragging along.
then i step back into the real world...ya know, all the people that work and the older generations, and i'm just like "man....what the hell happened?" why do we hate each other so much?
The big reason for that is commonality.. all of those college kids have something in common, they are in college, similar age, a lot of the same interests, taking the same classes, etc...
Go out into my neighborhood, black families 2 doors down on either side, Indians across the street, Latinos a couple doors down from them, Muslims on the corner... everybody gets along just fine. Similar homes, similar economic status, similar age, kids the same age, it's all good between us. We laugh, we talk, we have a beer on a hot Saturday afternoon... Do the blacks in my neighborhood hate the 1% white folks? I don't know. Do the whites hate the inner city and poor blacks? I don't know. Do the Muslims hate American's in general? I don't know.. I doubt it but anything is possible...
The younger generation SHOULD BE getting along better than the older generations.. the older generations lived through more crap and let's not forget, it's the older generation that tried really hard to raise this younger generation without a lot of the prejudices that we were born into...
So relax, and in the end, you will see there is far more good than bad going on in the world between races, between PEOPLE... it just doesn't make the news...
he has missteps. name a president that doesn't. but overall, IMO, his handling of racial issues has been about as good as you can get. Bdon't
people like to say Obama has driven the divide in this country.
and i agree. he has. but you wanna know how, from my perspective?
he's shown that we aren't that far off from the days of jim crow and pre civil rights era. the guy has been called every derogatory name in the book you can say to a black person. people have trashed his wife and called her a gorilla. they have made claims that his daughters will be welfare queens.
he's called a muslim, even though he's christian. the right wing makes it very clear they think he's straight up african...even though he's american, half white. he's shown that minorities are still being treated like second class citizens.
basically, people are pissed that he brought to light the deep ugly truth we thought we hid in the shadows somewhere. nah, it's still alive and well. there is still a lot of hatred in this country.
did you see that Times cover for the May 11th issue? that was a powerful shot, it has "1965" crossed out and they put in 2015.
i read that issue. wow. not a lot has changed. we just got good at masking stuff, but now with the social media boom, all of that is coming back to light.
so yea, i might make missteps too, because i'm tired of seeing my brothers gunned down in the streets.
Nice post Swish. I can agree that living in the past while continuing to complain without positive action is counterproductive. Wow! How far away are we from MLK?
But yet, I bet you are a Hillary guy wihich esentially is four more years of Obama. What has he really done to help "OUR" brothers being gunned down in the streets?
you know what, why is it that when it comes to these discussions, i'm always the only one who has to admit to biased, or having to understand both sides of the argument.
yet you guys never have to?
Careful with the generalization of "you guys" bro...
He's brought to light the problem of our darkest secret in this country.
Simply ignoring it was never going to work. Eventually this problem was going to boil over in glorious fashion as it has.
And you know what? It's actually fitting that this happened under our first black president. You know how many times I've heard "America isn't racist, we have our first black president".
Yea, they can go ahead and stop that BS talking point. Throw that out the window. The events that unfolded plus him being president is showing us that we still have a lot of work to do.
But guess what? We are actually dialoging about it now. We're trying to find a way to fix the problem, for everybody to meet half way.
You think these discussions happen under a white president, republican or democrat? Not likely. Not at this pace. And as a country, we will be better off in the long run because of it. This was going to be a painful process, but it needed to happen, so we're getting it started finally.
And that's why I will vote for Hilary. Because you know what Cjrae?
She IS a slime ball. She is a snake. She's a bought and paid for by big business politician.
But just how republicans always vote for candidates that have strong family values and morals and all that, so do I with liberals.
Because at the end of the day, she isn't a racist, sexist, or xenophobic.
And those three things is what will set us back even further, society wise, if trump is elected. Right now, he represents a angry, hateful America. And I don't want this country to be known for that.
So a host other things, yes, one of the reasons I'll vote for Hilary is because I WANT to say I helped elect the first female president of the United States. Just like I can say I helped elect the first black president.
Because we as Americans are suppose to set the standard for social progress, unity, and kindness. WE should've been the first country to elect a female president, not some of these European countries. When it comes to progress, we as Americans are suppose to be leadin in every aspect of life, not lagging behind, or in some cases, going backwards.
And that's why I can't support trump, because we will be going backwards.
you know what, why is it that when it comes to these discussions, i'm always the only one who has to admit to biased, or having to understand both sides of the argument.
yet you guys never have to?
Careful with the generalization of "you guys" bro...
I'm trying not to, but I've encountered his far too often. The majority of posters on this board, as I've already proven, are conservatives. And the majority of you, I have encountered that problem.
But just how republicans always vote for candidates that have strong family values and morals and all that
You mean like a guy on his third wife?
Well, that's the rhetoric I constantly hear.
I know mitt Romney was a good dude. But for some reason, him being Mormon really got under people's skin.
He was also a progressive trying to mask himself as a conservative. I voted for him because he was good in business. His theology didn't matter to me. May not agree with his interpretation of the New Testament, but I believe he was a genuine disciple of what he believed. So I trusted his character and business sense.
I'm not sure DC...but I hope he doesnt go to the debate and does the thing for wounded Vets...I hate Fox news and Meagan Kelly.
I liked Cruz at first...I think he would be better suited for the supreme court then President...but damn the further along this gets Idk why I just dont care for Cruz a whole lot.
Now if its between Cruz and or Trump thats who I'll vote for.
I wish there was a viable 3rd candidate to vote for that had a chance to be elected..but for now its Trump. There is no way I could vote for the Dem ticket this election...and to be quite frank I'm sick of the republican party and I'm sick of who they try to force feed me to vote for.
[quote]and to be quite frank I'm sick of the republican party and I'm sick of who they try to force feed me to vote for./quote]
Sadly, this is why Trump is doing as well as he is. If they would've done what they said they'd do when we voted for them they wouldn't be in this mess.
then i step back into the real world...ya know, all the people that work and the older generations, and i'm just like "man....what the hell happened?" why do we hate each other so much?
Swish I'm going to say this the nicest way I know how...and isnt meant as a knock man...But you need to surround yourself with different people man.
Sometimes I read your stuff and I wonder who in the heck does this guy surround himself with...I dont know how you perceive me but I feel like I could hang out with you and would be cool as hell...and I also wonder if your in person persona differs greatly from the online one.
I live in an all white community now...soon it will be nobody We got a place out in the middle of no where and I like that.. before this was pretty diversified...and there was no racial stuff.
Man I'm going to say this and will probably fly over like a lead balloon but some of the most racist people Ive lived around was black folks man...everything revolved around race and the crap got old...I constantly listened to it and when I would be like Jesus man I'm white I'm listening to you...and they would say naw bruh you aint white your black.
I was accepted but it always bothered me..the racial crap...that is.
I hope your understand my point of view...and it wasnt a dig at all...but damn man you need to get out of the backyard and experience some different kind of living and people...Hope you dont take this post the wrong way...I'm having a hard time putting the thoughts in words and may not have conveyed my point like I wanted to.
Well trump lied atleast twice when he vowed "til death do us part"
You might have a point. It would be a better point if you held hillary to the same requirements. She's done nothing but lie since back to her cattle scam. 1980 or so?
If breaking wedding vows (hey, I'm divorced and remarried) is such an issue for you, shouldn't flat out lying be an issue for you also?
I dont really give a care how many times someones been married..But Hillary is the worst kind of people man...I voted for her husband but I'll be damned if I vote for her.
And if half the stuff Ive read about her hiding Billy boys rape stuff is true...idk how in the hell she can champion womens rights...she is a foul person.
Back to Trump and the debate ..... I think that he's (thankfully) making a huge mistake.
He has dominated the debates thus far by force of his personality. No one else really had a chance to shine, because he hogged all of the limelight.
Now someone else is going to have that opportunity, and just as we're heading up to the election kickoff.
The only thing that can happen to Trump is that he is torn down without being there to defend himself ....and every other candidate now gets just that much more face time. Big mistake on Trump's part, IMHO.
I am almost curious as to how Trump would do as President ..... because he would not be able to dictate, he would have to negotiate. That's not his normal MO. He has "his" company, and he hires and fires people at will. Can't do that in DC. I am almost interested in seeing this massive coming train wreck ...... except that he would also hurt the country I love.
Now someone else is going to have that opportunity, and just as we're heading up to the election kickoff.
No ones shined because they suck...and are told what to say by the ones who have paid them off...scared to death to say something and derail there bid.
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Big mistake on Trump's part, IMHO.
I dont think so but if he doesnt show up we shall see...
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except that he would also hurt the country I love.
He cant do any worse then whats been in office...I actually think he will project power...we will see who is wrong.
and to be quite frank I'm sick of the republican party and I'm sick of who they try to force feed me to vote for.
Sadly, this is why Trump is doing as well as he is. If they would've done what they said they'd do when we voted for them they wouldn't be in this mess.
I agree. People think Obama created Donald Trumps popularity.. fact is a bunch of wussie republicans created Donald Trumps popularity.
Lately the republican leadership has been Courtney Brown-esque... talk like Tarzan, vote like Jane.
You will find what you are looking for in a person. If you look for all the bad, thats how you will perceive the person. If you look for the good, you will see the good. If you look for racism, thats what you will see. Once I learned to do this (everyday its work and somedays I fail) my life has become much happier.
I agree with you Arps.. there are very few people on this planet who are even close to "absolute" bad people or "absolute" good people. There is good and bad in all of us and generally you see what you want to see (or perhaps more accurately, what you EXPECT to see). Unless, as you say, you make it a point to LOOK for the other.
Betting the so called polls are not accurate. Monday should bring a "huge" surprise.
Trump will most likely hurt himself by not attending tonight's debate. His effort to trump FOX will fail. Tuesday, the dialgue should be different.
I agree with you, I think Trump will take a hit for this.. then again, every time in this campaign that I thought Trump went too far or stepped out of bounds, his numbers actually went up... so what do I know?
I don't think Trump takes a hit for this at all. Infact, it will just make his star even brighter.
Know what Trump going to be doing while this debate is going on? He is going to be raising money for wounded veterans.
This is a genius move by Trump, not only is he showing the American people that he actually cares far more for the common everyday person and our soldiers then these scubbag politician pieces of garbage everyone seems so apt to vote for, like Cruz, but Trump is actually willing to get his hands dirty and actually be on the ground floor of doing things that actually matter.
This right here is going to actually WIN Trump even more support.
From the 48 Laws of Power:
LAW 9) Win through your actions, never through argument
LAW 16) Use absence to increase respect and honor (p115-122)
LAW 43) Work on the hearts and minds of others! (p367-375)
Many don't even realize, Trump is playing this down to a T, he has flat out outsmarted every single person in the debate tonight and they are too stupid to realize it...i bet more people are at Trump's fundraiser then will be present at that debate, and Trump will garner far more votes and support because of it!
Folks trying to say Trump is running away from Kelly? please
LAW 22) Use the surrender tactic --- transform weakness into power! (p163-170)
the media, just like a true mark, they are already falling in lockstep with what Trump wants and most don't even realize it! its comical watching trump manipulate the strings to his own benefit...remember what happend with Kelly last time? Trump masterfuly turned that around and got even more support then he had before it all started.
Trump is playing this perfectly. Anyone who wants to ever run for a high level office, etc would be smart to take notes because so far Trump is using thr 48 laws to a T and is hitting it out of the park at every turn, and this debate thing will be no different.
but overall, the rest of america is looking at this situation like a reality tv show.
because that's exactly what this is. i never seen so much senseless drama in a political campaign.
ever.
What is he going to do if he wins and goes back and reviews all of the negative things some foreign governments have said about him? Is he going to stomp his feet and say they weren't fair to him and refuse to meet with them?
On one hand I agree that for most of this campaign he has played the media and his supporters like a fiddle.. and that might be great to help him win the election... I'm just not sure how that translates into being an effective President.
i agree, he can play the population and maybe win, but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to world leaders.
i'm seeing people on social media go "see? trump is a great leader because putin likes him"
or maybe putin wants trump to be president so he can have his way with the guy. and what about the rest of the world leaders?
it's exactly what you said, he can't stomp his feet and close his ears screaming "lalalalala" at a g20 summit, or un meeting. or when you gotta sit down with iran and make things happen.
England literally just debated in parliament about banning the guy. the petition got 3-4x as many signatures than needed, and it was mind boggling that they actually debated whether or not to ban him from entering the country.
say what you want about the british people, but that says way more about the global opinions of Trump. my wife said there were talks that Germany was considering it as well.
So lets say the conservatives are right. obama divided the country.
so now you guys(read: the republicans that elect/vote for him) wanna one up obama and divide the world?
England literally just debated in parliament about banning the guy. the petition got 3-4x as many signatures than needed, and it was mind boggling that they actually debated whether or not to ban him from entering the country.
say what you want about the british people, but that says way more about the global opinions of Trump. my wife said there were talks that Germany was considering it as well.
Which I view as about as childish and stupid as a lot of the stuff our politicians do. I mean really, that ranks up there with Seahawks fans trying to ban Cam Newton from the stadium next year.
On one hand I think Trump the President would be vastly different than Trump the candidate.. from every single person I've heard who had business dealings with him, he's tough but fair and is generally personable to be around... but it's kind of scary when you have to base your vote on the kind of person you THINK he's going to be....
My other thought, I'm not sure Trump wants to BE the President as much as he just wants to prove he can WIN the election. That is kind of the history of his business dealings, start a project, create a controversy, prove he can win the controversy, then move on to the next project/controversy... making money at each step.
but it's still eye opening. it's really hard to be a *effective* world leader when the world hates you.
i'm trying to look at it more from a statement kinda thing instead of a "lets really ban the guy" perspective.
as far as the rest of what you posted....man i dunno. you're right, it is scary.
if trump wins the election, it says a lot more about us as americans than it does about trump.
when the republicans won the house and senate, my first post on this board was "ok, the american people got what they wanted, so instead of bashing the government, lets wait and see how these guys do with control over congress".
On one hand I think Trump the President would be vastly different than Trump the candidate.. from every single person I've heard who had business dealings with him, he's tough but fair and is generally personable to be around.
Ive heard the same thing...I dont know him personally but I know a person who does and said the same thing you did...we was in the same kind of work and wouldve liked to had a chance to meet him even if I dont like the guy I respect what he does as a business man.
Quote:
My other thought, I'm not sure Trump wants to BE the President as much as he just wants to prove he can WIN the election.
Take this with a giant grain of salt...this was my thought at first....but the same friend/acquaintance told me the guy is in it to win because its one of the few challenges left to do and he genuinely thinks he can do much better then whats in there now.
I was hesitant to even mention my friend...people believe what they want..dont really care...but between what I was told and what I see the guy say...I'll be rolling with Trump if he gets the nod.
when the republicans won the house and senate, my first post on this board was "ok, the american people got what they wanted, so instead of bashing the government, lets wait and see how these guys do with control over congress".
Man thats 1 reason people are pissed off with Republicans...made big promises and basically gave the finger to the people who voted them in.
when the republicans won the house and senate, my first post on this board was "ok, the american people got what they wanted, so instead of bashing the government, lets wait and see how these guys do with control over congress".
Man thats 1 reason people are pissed off with Republicans...made big promises and basically gave the finger to the people who voted them in.
yea, look, i understand you guys hate the ACA.
but after the....i dunno..25th time trying to repeal it, couldn't you guys have focused on other problems?
also, i thought you guys promised to balance the budget and cut spending?
the new budget that you guys brought to the presidents desk increased the spending.
Swish I love ya man...but could you please stop with the 'you guys thing' I know I post very right leaning but man I swear to you I have no party allegiance...just busting your balls a bit kid.
I hear what your saying....and is part of my problem with the Republican party in general.
As this day plays out, it looks as if this may be beneficial to Trump. Huckabee and Santorum attending his event and most other candidates making the news about Trump in their efforts to offer millions to debate him.
The other candidates offering huge dollars simply to debate Trump, after six previous debates, is reflective of the financial waste that occurs in these campaigns.
All while we, as Americans, stand by and watch.
But offering millions to debate Trump, simply makes Trump look even more significant and the others as if they are pandering to the top dawg.
Am I misinformed or just naive? I thought part of the reason for having PARTY primaries was so the party could make sure that the race was somewhat fair... if two candidates can just, on their own, decide to hold a debate with each other, excluding every other candidate that may want to participate... how is that right?
I really like this. A no holds bar, man on man, straight up debate?
This is about as American as we can get. I want this to happen. And Cruz straight up challenging trump, and trump accepting the terms as long as he finishes second?
This is straight fire, bro. I hope it happens. That's some balls from both of them right there.
This is the modern day version of challenging somebody to a duel. I just hope they don't choose Limbaugh to moderate. I don't like that dude.
I read this earlier...what does Trump gain by doing this?? I wouldnt either.
Do you think he should debate him Swish?
If you wish to play the tough guy, call all of your opponents weak, losers and degrade everyone who takes you on? In that case, you either need to man up or quit with the hyperbole.
Ok this is strange for me..I wasnt expecting that kind of response...I was reading it shaking my head yes in agreement...but man when I look at it from Trumps perspective..there is no way I'd do it.
Cruz has everything to gain and really nothing to lose...and his donaldducking thing seems like something Trump would come up with
I wouldnt do it...and I damn sure wouldnt do it with Rush as the moderator...I dont listen to Rush but my oldest boy does and says Rush rips on Trump all the time...idk if thats right..but its what the kid tells me.
Off topic: but does the democrats ever debate with any Fox commentators as mods or a right leaning one?? Honest question I saw someone on another site say this and since you watch them I figured I'd ask you??
I read this earlier...what does Trump gain by doing this?? I wouldnt either.
Do you think he should debate him Swish?
If you wish to play the tough guy, call all of your opponents weak, losers and degrade everyone who takes you on? In that case, you either need to man up or quit with the hyperbole.
I guess thats how you could look at it...I look at it like...I would gain nothing by doing it and therefor the ones trying to catch me in the poles will just have to figure out another way JMHO Pit
J/C ...... I have to wonder how many people say that they support Trump right now, because he is resonating with their frustrations with the political world ....but when they actually go to vote, and envision him as President, might well change their minds?
It's like many of us who were frustrated and irritated with yet another reboot with the Browns. We said that we might just be done with them .... and really meant it at the time .... but now that time had passed we (or at least I) have had those feelings ease a bit. It's still annoying that things were blown up yet again ..... yet we're all here, hanging on every piece of Browns news.
I think that a lot of people may well feel that Trump is what they want, because he expresses their irritation and frustration, but I believe that many will stop and consider whether or not we want a guy who governs from frustration and irritation as president, and will decide that the do not, and will vote for someone else.
I am also less inclined to believe polls, because I remember the last election where polling said that Romney was closing on Obama .... only ... well ..... to not do as well.
The real clear politics average of polls had the election at 48.8 for Obama, and 48.1 for Romney. It looked like it could come down to Florida, of a similar situation, again. The final pre-election electoral map said that Obama had 201 electoral votes wrapped up, to 190 for Romney, with 146 considered toss up. Well ..... of those 146 toss ups, only 16 went Romney's way. An election that was considered to be close, turned into a landslide victory for Obama.
The turnout for that election was roughly 55%. Many people who might have voted for Romney, stayed home instead. I wonder how many people who say they support Trump will definitely turn out and vote, and how many just enjoy having someone say some of the things they are thinking, but won't vote?
Further, the early primaries are all turnout, and the group that turns out most heavily are those who are most politically connected. I have to wonder how many of these people are backing Trump.
Ok this is strange for me..I wasnt expecting that kind of response...I was reading it shaking my head yes in agreement...but man when I look at it from Trumps perspective..there is no way I'd do it.
Cruz has everything to gain and really nothing to lose...and his donaldducking thing seems like something Trump would come up with
I wouldnt do it...and I damn sure wouldnt do it with Rush as the moderator...I dont listen to Rush but my oldest boy does and says Rush rips on Trump all the time...idk if thats right..but its what the kid tells me.
Off topic: but does the democrats ever debate with any Fox commentators as mods or a right leaning one?? Honest question I saw someone on another site say this and since you watch them I figured I'd ask you??
Nah, but they should.
I wish there was a regulation that stated that each parties debate must be hosted and moderated by the opposing party at least once.
Other than being extremely entertaining, it would make for some truly eye opening responses, and would cut down mods asking questions that only aim to boost the candidate in question.
I'll tell you what Y-town...for me I thought it was a complete joke at first...it wasnt until recently after conversations with person that knows him and listening to him..Trump that is..it would take something big for me not to vote for him if he gets the nod...and I NEVER thought Id ever say those words.
And from things Ive read...the people who support him now will definitely vote for him...and the ones who are not likely wont...love him or hate him type thing...now how true that is idk but Ive never witnessed anything like this in my life..its pretty wild man.
It probably was that close...until the 47% comment came.
55% percent turn out is pathetic for eligible voters. But even with that, if more people showed up to vote for Romney, even more would've showed up to vote for Obama.
It works both ways, man. Romney was probably gonna lose no matter the turn out.
As far as frustration goes, I have to ask you republicans and conservatives this:
What are you frustrated about? The economy for the last 20 years is exactly what you guys wanted. Businesses allowed to do whatever they want, and massive tax cuts.
This is what you guys wanted. Less government oversight. Businesses allowed to do whatever they want, regardless of the welfare of the American people. If they want all their jobs overseas, that's their right. Capitalism.
So it can't be the economy.
So what is it? Mad about gay marriage? Mad that tax payers have the same rights as everybody else? That's what you guys are pissed about?
War? Republicans love war. Your politicians talk about war like we're playing call of duty. It's big money for contractors in warfare. Your representative are mad that we don't have boots on ground all over the Middle East?
Illegal immigration? A lot of farmers are conservatives, which is fun because they benefit from illegal immigration the most. Hell trump even had illegals building his buildings. And I don't buy that excuse that he didn't know about it.
So what is it that you guys are frustrated about? American has turned into a conservative paradise. You own most of the resources. You guys have most of the money and property.
You republicans, the party of family values and moral responsibility, can kill 4 people on the side of the road while driving drunk, and instead of going to jail, claim affluenza and get probation.
.Trump that is..it would take something big for me not to vote for him if he gets the nod...and I NEVER thought Id ever say those words.
Ah, my other big fear.. Donald walks on the edge, he has come up smelling like roses so far in the primaries but he teeters on the edge of what people are willing to tolerate.. If he gets the nomination, then takes one step over that edge, it's a guarantee we will have at least 4 years of Hillary, which for me is the equivalent of 4 years locked in a room with somebody dragging their fingernails on a chalkboard... I seriously cannot find one redeeming quality in that woman.
How do you know? Because she's never come right out and said it? If there is one thing I know about Hillary, she is the equivalent of Donald Trump on the left. She will say whatever she needs to in order to manipulate her base into supporting her. She has proven more than a few times that if she has to lie, that's not a problem. If she has to hide or lose documents that could hurt her, again, not a problem. If she has to throw people under the bus and destroy the reputation of others to protect her own, not a problem.
Choosing Hillary because it is some sort of moral high ground still leaves you below sea level.
Businesses allowed to do whatever they want, and massive tax cuts.
I want to just comment on this 1 thing...I'm not going to list my income or networth for 1.I dont think anyone would believe. 2. It really is no ones business.
The only way I'll put it is I'm not going hungry any time soon nor is anyone in my family...and considering I just posted I wasnt getting angry this year at the tax man...and just read a post on another site that said the person hates welfare and poor people....I'll just say this..
I cant imagine what in the hell my tax burden would be without those massive tax cuts. Holy hell man I'm for a helping hand and donate a crap ton to charity but at what point does the taxes turn into a non-incentive for people to acquire wealth??
I hear you on gay marriage... I just wish it wasnt called marriage..civil union whatever.
What about Ted Kennedy he have affluenza?
I'm pissed because we are losing our rights slowly...I'm pissed because I cant tell the difference between rep. and dem. for the most part. I'm pissed because I pay through the nose in taxes while my representatives are delinquent on their taxes and dont get prosecuted.
I'm pissed because I see the major shift coming in this country and I dont agree with most of it. I'm pissed because the ILLEGALS shouldnt be here in the first place and the answer is to just let them all stay here?? bullogny.
I seriously cannot find one redeeming quality in that woman.
Me either...but I recently had to put my money where my mouth is...I made a pretty substantial bet with a Democrat friend of mine...that Trump will beat Hillary if it comes to those 2 in the election...and believe with every bone in my body freaking Trump would win not because Trump is anything great but because Hillary is just that bad
We will see and if I lose the bet I'll be damn surprised but I read politics well and I just dont see her winning.
Those are the things she is not. I'm cool with that. What I'm not so cool with are some of the things that she IS.
I wish Bernie was running against 'a better alternative to Hillary.'
Sad thing for me is this: BOTH parties have shockingly shallow talent pools at present, and that does very little to instill confidence in 4,8, 12 years. Where is the fresh blood with fresh ideas? Who are these unknowns... and when will they ever show up?
I'd love to hear from forward-thinking Dems AND Repubs. Problem is I'm not hearing anything fresh from any of them... just the same rehash that's always been around.
.02
AND no, I don't like the idea of a Trump presidency at all. Anger and frustration are great motivators, but are ultimately non-sustainable. After the anger subsides, it must be replaced with something else. With Trump, we have no idea what that might be. He's been pretty nebulous on policy details from the start. That is a concern.
You republicans, the party of family values and moral responsibility, can kill 4 people on the side of the road while driving drunk, and instead of going to jail, claim affluenza and get probation.
Generalize much? Really swish? "you republicans....." can kill 4 people.......... Show me one person, of ANY party, that agreed with that crap. Other wise, you look foolish by classifying it as "you republicans".
Farmers? Yeah, the ones I know are mostly conservative. Of the big ones I know, personally, around here - 2 of them own or lease over 10,000 acres (combined, that is) - not a single illegal employee - not a single illegal immigrant working for them. Not 1.
My bro in law works for one of those farmers. My cousin works for the other one. Maybe you shouldn't generalize so much.
I also know another family that grows tomatoes. They used to hire immigrant labor - legal immigrants - you know, documented people. They quit doing that and now use machinery. No more housing costs, plus the machine does as good a job, much faster.
I'm not going to argue that point...I'm just hoping Trump sticks to what he says he is going to do...by the way I dont agree with a lot...but its more then the rest of them...I wish there was someone better I really do Swish but I have to go with what I think is best for me.
One thing u said I agree with is how pathetic the voter turn out is...Idk what the answer is but damn turnout should be much higher.
I'm not going to argue that point...I'm just hoping Trump sticks to what he says he is going to do...by the way I dont agree with a lot...but its more then the rest of them...I wish there was someone better I really do Swish but I have to go with what I think is best for me.
One thing u said I agree with is how pathetic the voter turn out is...Idk what the answer is but damn turnout should be much higher.
I think anybody who complains about politics, but don't vote, really has no business complaining in the first place.
How do you know? Because she's never come right out and said it? If there is one thing I know about Hillary, she is the equivalent of Donald Trump on the left. She will say whatever she needs to in order to manipulate her base into supporting her. She has proven more than a few times that if she has to lie, that's not a problem. If she has to hide or lose documents that could hurt her, again, not a problem. If she has to throw people under the bus and destroy the reputation of others to protect her own, not a problem.
Choosing Hillary because it is some sort of moral high ground still leaves you below sea level.
Interesting thought I heard about hillary today regarding her e-mail.
You know, the situation where she claimed at first that it was just easier for her to combine everything on 1 device.
Then it turns out she had 3 devices.
Then she started with the "my personal server only had personal e-mails on it".
Then it becomes known she had work e-mails on it, and didn't use a secure account at all.
Then she said "nothing in my e-mails was marked confidential at all" And then we find out she told people to just copy the text, and not the "confidential" headers on the e-mails sent to her.
And yet, she could still "claim" nothing sent to her was marked confidential.
Her e-mail server - her personal one - was the one she conducted business on - we know that.
So, why did the secretary of state claim to not have 1 single e-mail that was confidential?
She only used 1 e-mail as secretary of state, yet she claims, as the secretary of state, to have not had 1 single e-mail that was confidential? Really? What was she doing as secretary of state if she's not getting confidential info?
What I'm not so cool with are some of the things that she IS.
I have a friend of a friend who worked security detail for the Clintons and if what he said about how bad Hillary treated them is true...well she is a foul nasty person I would never vote for.
Said Bill was good to them but Hillary is one nasty hateful woman.
The problem Clem, is that what IS she that pretty much any other politician isn't?
The political system has boiled down to all of them being crap, so you gotta pick who stinks less.
It's my personal opinion that Hilary stinks less. However, for a guy like arch who seems to foam at the mouth every time Hilary is mentioned, thinks she stinks more.
I'm sure somebody has something on Obama, Bernie, trump, Cruz, Carson, bush, etc.
The list goes on.
I bet if me and you hung out in DC for a week, we could find out who's having an affair with who, and which big wig smashed the wrong secretary and fronted money for an abortion.
But until any of them get charged and convicted, we can't really say much.
Hell, so does the construction industry to an extent.
Owners benefit, things would just be more expensive.
DC the people who did the actual building of my current house only the crew leader was legal...after a month of conversing in spanish with them they opened up and told me about their situations and how they send the money back home to support their families.
They was surprised the wife and I was fluent in spanish..I learned it young I didnt like the spanish gangs in my hood as youth talking and I didnt know what they was saying so I learned and it paid off in life.
Our fundamental beliefs might be different, but the general concepts of life is the same. We understand how the world works.
I can agree with that..man the Dr. put me on some new medicine and it is making the fog brain really bad..Im having to read things 3 or 4 times to make sure its sinking in..it sucks.
That applies to everybody, not just those you like. And until she gets charged and convicted. You got nothing.
Bill Clinton was never charged with his sexual assault, Bush was never charged with anything, Senator Kennedy killed a woman in his car while driving drunk and was never charged, Hillary has dodged the law on multiple occasions.... it's privilege that is almost always applied to the wealthy and powerful, especially the white wealthy... I would assume this is something you would rail against in your quest for social and economic justice....
In threads about ordinary, every day, working cops who made a mistake you scream about how the system is rigged in their favor.. well this is the system being rigged at the highest levels... and you don't seem to care...
It probably was that close...until the 47% comment came.
Yeah, but that was the final Real Clear Politics average before the election.
The polls were so far off that it was ridiculous. They said that the election was going to be razor close, and it was anything but. I remember watching some of the election results shows, and some had exit polling that said that elections would be lose, and it wasn't. I seem to recall more than 1 election model saying that the election could come down to one or 2 states. Then the election results came in, and more than one network had to admit that their model(s) were wrong.
I think that whoever turns out their voters (duh! comment of the day lol) will win the initial primaries and caucuses. The caucuses tend to be the more hardcore aspects of the particular party. I have to wonder how many of those people are going to turn out for Trump. I would think that a guy like Cruz may do better in that setting.
I do. I think I've made post after post, specifically in this thread, about the corruption of the political system.
I think I'm the only one who has called for a full political reform, where we get rid of two dominant parties on this board.
So to say I don't care is completely false and baseless.
Also, I have said that some of the cases with cops are justified. The whole Ferguson joint? Dude did nothing wrong, but the other report the DOJ came out with that showed the police department systematically targeting blacks for tickets and such got ignored by the masses.
I care about corruption. Unfortunately, I'm also aware that as far as police, we as citizens have a chance to change that. The community has a chance to change this.
When it comes to politics, this has been woven through our society since he dawn of the country. Voting isn't gonna fix this mess anymore. Not the level of corruption we are currently seeing.
Either we need a complete overhaul of the political system, of we need a revolution.
Other than that, we are stuck picking between the less stinky person. So that's what I'm doing.
I posted a vice video months ago where farmers were complaining that the illegals left, and they didn't have people to farm.
Combined with tons of data, yea, it's fact versus "I know a guy".
Once again, pointless debating with you.
Yeah, it is pointless discussing with you.
How's about this? If illegals are so prevalent everywhere, which it appears they are - let's kick them the hell out of this country and put our own people to work. You good with that?
No more gov't. handouts - let's put our own people to work. You good with that?
Get the illegals - cops, gov't. agencies - get the illegals and ship them the hell out.
The illegals are obviously making enough to live, and apparently enough to send money back to where ever they came from, right? Let's rid this country of them, and put our own people to work. Instead of a gov't. check for sitting on their asses, they get jobs. Jobs that apparently pay enough to live as well as send money back to where ever they call home.
Yeah there is no debating in my mind...illegals are out in full force in the farming industry.
Yea. Which begs the question.
As much as we dislike illegal immigration........ How much do we as citizens benefit from it?
I wish I had the time to get into this...From a business owners perspective and just a moral perspective...I know it woulkdve benefited me to have went this route...but what a hypocrite I wouldve been to do so considering how I feel about them being here.
I have to go have a great night Swish, and everyone else.
Yeah there is no debating in my mind...illegals are out in full force in the farming industry.
Yea. Which begs the question.
As much as we dislike illegal immigration........ How much do we as citizens benefit from it?
I don't know the answer but I think the first question is.. do we benefit from it?
With millions of illegals taking jobs at lower wages, wouldn't we benefit if they went away and our own unemployed took those jobs at least at minimum wage?
And what about the illegals who are actually taking from the system in the form of subsidies and healthcare, etc?
But then they are also spending money, etc.
I honestly don't know what the total net impact is, I'm sure whoever calculates it can make it say whatever they want it to say...
I'm sure somebody has something on Obama, Bernie, trump, Cruz, Carson, bush, etc.
The list goes on.
I bet if me and you hung out in DC for a week, we could find out who's having an affair with who, and which big wig smashed the wrong secretary and fronted money for an abortion.
But until any of them get charged and convicted, we can't really say much.
Based on what the FBI has released so far, there is plenty to indict Hillary... they indicted Petraeus for much less on a similar issue. The only thing preventing that from happening is that Obama hasn't given them the go ahead.
This is why she's been kissing Obama's butt so much the last couple weeks.
I didn't know the FBI needed approval from a president to indict someone? When did this become the protocol?
Can the fbi indict? I don't know.
I think it takes the prosecutor to indict. Well, for us little people, it does.
For you, the cops investigate, then turn over the evidence to the county prosecutor who then determines if charges are warranted. Then the grand jury, then a trial if need be.
My GUESS is, for hillary, the fbi will turn over their findings to a federal prosecutor who will have the ability to move forward, or not. My GUESS is, the federal prosecutor will decline to do so.
I didn't know the FBI needed approval from a president to indict someone? When did this become the protocol?
I don't know if it's a protocol as much as a professional courtesy.. she is the heir apparent to his throne, she was his secretary of state, etc...
In theory, I don't think they need anything from him.. separation of powers and all.. but in the real world, they aren't likely to go after her without his approval.
Just like you guys going off the past history of Hilary being a snake, I can do the same with Cheney.
His crap he pulled with the war and his company conveniently getting the contract tells me he's a slime ball, and I wouldn't put it past him to shoot somebody in the face and call it an accident.
I didn't know the FBI needed approval from a president to indict someone? When did this become the protocol?
I don't know if it's a protocol as much as a professional courtesy.. she is the heir apparent to his throne, she was his secretary of state, etc...
In theory, I don't think they need anything from him.. separation of powers and all.. but in the real world, they aren't likely to go after her without his approval.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I certainly don't buy into that. The FBI and the majority of their employees would more likely be Republicans, not Democrats.
I don't believe the president would enter into this in any way. If they had the goods on her, she would be indicted.
